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In 2020, in a small California mountain town, five women disappeared. I found out what happened to all of them, except one. A woman known as Dia, whose estate is worth millions of dollars. I'm Lucy Sheriff. Over the past four years, I've spoken with Dia's family and friends, and I've discovered that everyone has a different version of events.
Hear the story on Where's Dear? Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Voices for Justice is a podcast that uses adult language and discusses sensitive and potentially triggering topics, including violence, abuse, and murder.
This podcast may not be appropriate for younger audiences. All parties are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Some names have been changed or omitted per their request or for safety purposes. Listener discretion is advised. My name is Sarah Turney and this is Voices for Justice.
today i'm sharing part two of my conversation with tara newell if you haven't listened to part one go back and listen to that first or this isn't going to make any sense in part one tara discussed the events leading up to her attack in our second and final episode tara's gonna explain the aftermath of that attack she'd
She describes what it was like being in the hospital, being treated as a potential perpetrator, and seeing her story in the media. Then we dive into Tara reclaiming her story. Of course, we touch on ethics in the true crime entertainment industry, calling people out, and I share some details about my own experiences you may have never heard before. This is an honest conversation between two friends who have seen the good and the bad in this industry. This is part two of my conversation with Tara Newell.
And he asked me, like, what can I do? I keep repeating myself over and over again because I need other people to know the severity of the situation and what exactly happened. And I don't want to give too much information where people where it might mess up the investigation. Um,
So I keep repeating myself. That was my stepdad. He tried to kill me. That was my stepdad. He tried to kill me. That was my stepdad. He tried to kill me. And then...
So he gave me something for my forearm. He gave me a sweater that was red and I apply pressure with that to my forearm. And then the 14 year old lifeguard girl, Skylar, comes up and she tells me, hi, I'm Skylar. I'm trained in this type of situation. What is your name? And just starts asking me questions to get me out of my state of shock and my state of hysterics.
And so she gives me a clean towel to apply pressure to my wound and she starts to help me. And the other guy goes over to John and starts to give him CPR. I freak out because I don't want John to hurt him or get up and hurt me again. And I try to tell him that he tried to kill me, but he's not listening. So I decide that I need to get down for my safety to get away from John.
And I ask her to grab my phone. And this is the point where she walks me down the hill. And then she goes back and she grabs my phone for me. I call my mom and I tell my mom, I'm so sorry. I killed your, I think I killed your husband. I knew that he would do this. Um, and then she is saying, what, what? And then, um, she comes on her way and, uh,
Then I hang up and I call my ex-boyfriend. He doesn't answer because he's working on Bar Rescue at the time and he's out of service. And I texted him and I was like, I can't believe you blocked me, John. Just try to kill me. Yeah. I mean, what do you do? Yeah. But I'm like, I can't believe you blocked me. Even though he didn't block me, he was just like out of service. And he called me and he was like, I didn't block you.
Oh, my gosh. I'm sure everyone was just panicking. Yeah. And then the ambulance and everyone else starting to arrive. And then the police are like, please don't make any more phone calls. Oh, wow. They're like, stop it. Stop it. Stop it.
Like, stop telling everyone what happened here. Like, you need to stop calling people. Like, you need to, like, my brain is in a state of shock. And I don't know why my thoughts were, I need to call everyone and make sure that they are safe and they know what happened. And like,
Like my last thoughts were to call the police, but then they were already there. So I was like, okay, but I'm just not thinking about that. I'm not thinking, oh, I need to call the police right now. I need to tell them what exactly happened. I'm thinking I need to tell everyone else that knows what's happened and has been living in fear. And I'm sure you wanted your mom. You called your mom first. I mean, that seems really, really natural.
Yeah, no, and then she showed up. She wasn't too far from where I live, so she showed up really quickly. My sister showed up quickly, too, because she was at the Irvine Ranch Market, which was really close to my house. And she just, like, left abruptly because my mom called her. And then at this point, they're putting me—well, they wrap up my arm and—
They're trying to get me to go into the ambulance. And I, at this point, my mom has my dog on the other side of the caution tape. And I'm just like, oh, no, I'm not doing any of this. I'm fine. Yeah, I'm sure. I mean, I'm sure you were in shock and yeah. Yeah, but I wouldn't let them do anything to me without my dog.
And I had a doctor's note for my dog, too. So I would bring him to the hospital with me or anytime I needed any work done with me. So he was already trained for that. And so I told them I need my dog. They told me no at first. And I told them he's an ESA dog. I'll see you guys if you don't give him to me now. And I won't let you put anything in me. Good for you. Yeah.
But, like, honestly, I just need my dog because I've –
had other traumas where it's kind of made me afraid of needles where I had, I was one of the kids that had like five nurses hold me down and gave me a shot when I was a child. So just, I haven't had the best experience. And so I was like, you give me my dog, you can do anything to me basically. And they got my dog. I let them do whatever they needed to do.
And they were so kind too because like I felt stubborn and I felt like, oh, but it was important for me to speak about that and get that for myself because that was my safety and that was my comfort. And that's what helped me the most in this healing journey was having my dog with me. I totally get it. Yeah. Yeah.
I mean, I totally get it, obviously, but I understand the comfort of dogs. I should not say I totally get it because my gosh, that is absolutely what you've gone through is, you know, so unique and just insane. I mean, it's amazing what you've gone through and how you're here today, Tara. Thank you. Well, I think it is really important for survivors to have
Or, you know, sometimes your trauma may not be able to handle it. But if you have a good, well-trained dog, like that dog was going to do so much for your trauma. Like my dog, Cash, he used to come and sit on my stomach, regulate my nervous system. He would go with me to get my blood drawn. He was always there for that type of stuff. And he was a different type of Aussie too. He was more of a pet style Aussie.
Where Ozzy, this one that I have right now, I don't think he can do that. But I love him anyways. But, you know, there's that different temperament that you need for being a service animal or emotional support animal. And I think that your dog does that for you as well. So I think that's definitely something we can relate on. But, yeah, okay, back to the hospital. Okay.
So I go in the ambulance. They take me to the hospital. I can't see anyone. And at this point, I waited in the hallway for a little bit because they were overfilled. And then they put me in a room. And then the officers started asking me questions. They weren't very nice.
But I kind of understand that I am being questioned for killing someone. And it's kind of unbelievable to think that this person came after me and that guy got the grunt of it. So they're questioning me. They're asking me questions. I asked them where my mom is. And they tell me that she went to go be with John.
Even though that was not true, they told her that she needed to go identify him because that's what you need to do when you have a person that's a quote unquote John Doe and you need to identify them because they don't have any identity on them. And she legally is still married to him. So she had to go identify him. But yet they told me, oh, she went to go be with him.
And by this point, it's 11, like around 11 p.m., probably after 11 p.m. And I told them that I couldn't get stitches without my mom there because I've never had stitches before. And so I literally have this gaping open wound on my arm for like hours. And then finally, my sister, Nicole, comes in and
And she's the first person to see me. And it's because my other sister, Jacqueline, is literally arguing with the cops and, like, telling them, like, to go F themselves and that she needs to see her sister and that she needs to be with me. Sister energy. Absolutely. Yeah. Right? She's fighting to be with me. And then Nicole's a little bit more calm and collected. And so they're like, oh, you go. Yeah.
And so I see my sister Nicole first and then she gives me a hug. I ask her where everyone is and she starts to tell me because I was upset with my mom at first. I was like, how dare she go be with that guy? And then my sister gives me the real lowdown that she needed to go identify him. And then...
At this point, I'm getting ready to go and I lift up my shirt and there's a stab wound in my chest. So that means that they need to check that out. And because of the spot where it's located, I actually need to go to a different hospital. I need to go to the trauma unit. And this is when, honestly, it's like the hardest part for me is going to the trauma unit because I get pulled in and
They bring me straight to this room with all these lights. And I swear there's like eight people at least around me. And...
They're touching me all over the place. They're touching my boobs, my vagina. They're touching me everywhere. They're poking me and they're prodding me. They're doing like the finger test. They're sticking needles in my arms. And oh wait, no, they stick the needle right here and...
I'm looking at my mom from the other side. And she, like, you could see in. You could see me. And I'm literally screaming at the top of my lungs for them to stop. And they're not stopping. And I'm just seeing my mom. And, like, I'm just screaming. And I'm screaming. And I'm seeing her. And she's crying. And she's so upset for me, too. But I'm not being able to...
get them to stop but eventually they stop and it's it's a secondary trauma because i was already so violated and they weren't asking for consent with anything and then i go to
this makeshift room with curtains and it's in the trauma unit and there's different people coming in literally like different stab victims but like these people are screaming as they come in too and it's just crazy because and there was like a gunshot victim too it's it's crazy in there and
I'm just like, oh my gosh. And I'm wondering now if someone else is going to come after me and finish the job that John didn't get to finish. Because I don't know if he has friends. I don't know. And I just had someone come after me and try to kill me. And, like, even... I know your friends would kill us at German, but I, like, asked her this question on our episode because...
It's that fear that like when someone hurts someone that you love or hurts you, that there's the fear that someone's going to come after you again. And it's what like many survivors have to live with that after fear that someone else is going to hurt them.
And it took me a while to get over that fear, but I ended up getting put into a room upstairs. They had to do exploration surgery to make sure I wasn't bleeding out. I was not bleeding out, thankfully. Um,
And they told me that if I did that, I could get to go home and everything. And then I actually ended up staying like a couple days. And I was just on Ativan the whole time. And Zofran and everything because I don't do well in hospitals. And Cash would come visit me every once in a while. And then Cash got to visit other people that were sick.
And there for healing, he got to visit this cancer patient and she was on her deathbed. And so that was like the last comfort that she had. And he was really great to have there. So yeah.
But he wasn't himself. Like my nephew came up to hug him and my nephew had known him since he, like we got him, like they were babies together basically. And he like bit my nephew in the face. So it's like trauma doesn't affect just us. It affects the dogs. It affects everyone. And for a while, like we just had to go through it and go through that healing journey and
And then we get out of the hospital and it's crazy how many people think that, like, they don't believe you.
I wanted to ask about that, too, how that all unfolded, because it sounds very much to me, you know, as someone from the outside, that they were treating you as, you know, as if you killed him on purpose and it was not self-defense. They were, you know, basically just doing all these things without consenting you, like I would imagine would normally happen in a hospital setting. I haven't spent a lot of time in the hospital, but...
And from what I've seen and what I know, it seems like you were being treated like the perpetrator until they cleared you, I'm assuming. So what did that process look like?
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Just so that they could make sure that there was consistency in the story. And I, I mean, I don't know. It's,
Interesting because survivors, like different things will pop up later times. Like I just connected the dots fully to the shoulder. Like this is the first time like I've seen it so clearly. Like other times I kind of can't see it, but it's like, oh, I full on saw my arm swing over. It was like me watching from a third person just now. And it's been almost seven years. So yeah.
Things happen, things can kind of change, but the story and the baseline kind of always stays the same. He attacked me, he came after me, he had the knife, I kicked the knife out of his hand, you know, the knife fell on the floor. That's all consistent, but there's just certain factors that you remember as you go along.
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I've experienced that myself in terms of like giving testimony. It just, after so much time, your brain just, it changes and it's, I don't know the science behind it, but yeah, it's, you know, you lose track of time or maybe small details, whatever it might be. Yeah. Well, I think it's like the hippocampus of the brain. Yeah.
Like, please don't quote me on this, but like I'll know about the brain sometimes when I have the workshops. I always like am prepared for it. And have your notes in front of you, I'm sure. Yeah. Yeah. But it's like, you know, there's so many parts of the brain that brain compartmentalizes it because at certain points your body can't process and those memories are so hard for your body to take control of in a sense.
So, you know, that's why it happens. I forget the parts of the brain exactly. But, you know, it's the way of the brain protecting yourself until you can process through them. Like, I couldn't process all this at first. I was in shock. And then people didn't believe me for a time. Like, my friend, well, people that I thought were my friends would come over and
And then they wanted to see it was like the circus kind of like the freak show. Like you want to see if this person is really okay. Like, is this person normal? And then there was one friend, this one girl I knew, she really wasn't
my friend at the time. She was more of an acquaintance. But she heard all these things that these people said about me. They called me a killer. They thought I was making it up. They thought I was crazy. This one guy that I was hooking up with stopped hooking up with me because he thought I was a killer and he thought I was crazy. And like a lot of people just were like, oh, that's not true. Right.
Okay, that's not true. You could go look up the articles about it, but it's not true. And I was in a hyper state of hysterics at points. And so I think it was really hard for like...
My best friend at the time to deal with it, he was just like, I can't deal with her. Like she just goes into points where she shakes, she has panic attacks, then she cries. Then honestly, I self-harmed. I would hit my head. I didn't know what to do. Like I haven't done that in a while or anything, but yeah.
It's so much to deal with. Like, I also felt bad for killing him and taking his life. And I was wondering who else out there cares about him. And
His sisters did show up and then his niece did, but I also found out that his niece has a, had a really good relationship with John and now hates me. And I think it's like one of the trolls, but you know why it's fine. She could do whatever she wants. Um,
I had a fin for my life and I'm standing my ground that he was not a good guy. Right. Well, and I mean, you were cleared by police, right? I mean, it seems like it didn't take that long for them to realize that this was a clear case of self-defense.
Oh, yeah. No. And they had, I think, like 25 witnesses or something that called in because it literally happened on a parking structure, like the top of a parking structure. And then there was like a couple of rows of like balconies. So there was like at least like 50.
apartments or maybe like 40 apartments like facing the parking structure people heard this people came out they called they didn't Skyler was really the only one to run down from her apartment but but you know the guy came on the bike the person came on the with their dog so people were coming thank goodness but it's like that attack too only happened within a matter of seconds
you kinda can't just bolt down the stairs in a matter of seconds you know normally you're coming down to a dead body at that point i was just extremely lucky to honestly be a walking dead fan
I know. And I know you've gotten, and we'll get into it about all the crap you get for that. But it makes, I mean, it makes sense to me. Like you were in a, you know, the state of survival. What do you do? And yes, Walking Dead is all about survival. So you're like, how do I kill a person? I've never been in this, you know, instance before. How do I make this person stop attacking me? And you went for the brain and it is what it is. And I mean, I just commend you for being so, I mean, in my opinion, the way that you told this, like,
I can't say I would have reacted the same way. You know, I think you were so...
being collected and, you know, protecting your heart and just, you know, dropping the leash so that cash could be safe. Like, you know, you were just, and I don't know what the right phrase is because I don't want to shame anybody for not, you know, having the perfect, if you will, reaction, you know, in a situation like that. But I just, I commend you for the way that you handled it. And I'm not sure I could have done the same thing. And I think it's very, very impressive. I mean, you did what you needed to do and you got out alive.
Thank you. Well, I did everything right in my attack. Like I tried to flee. I tried to run away right away. You know, when he tried to grab me, I bit him as hard as I could. When, you know, I defended myself. And then when I put my arm up to protect my heart, which I would have been killed if I didn't do that. You know, the sad one is right here.
And that's one inch deep. That was the one that would have got my heart if I didn't put that up. So everything I did in this circumstance was right. And this is why I love to talk about this. Well, I don't actually I do love to talk about this because of the response that some people get.
They see, oh my gosh, okay, she did this, this, this, and that. Okay, I got to remember that. And I've had girls message me saying that because I've talked about how to survive, they've been able to fight off a killer. They've been able to fight off an attacker. So that, and you know, there's a part where you kind of wonder like,
should I keep going? Should I keep talking about this? But then I feel like at that point you get signs. And that was my sign was when I was questioning, should I even talk about my story? I got that message from that girl. And then I've gotten several messages since. So it's like, you know, this is why I love to talk about it because I did everything right. And I hope that you do everything right too in your attack.
And I hate to say like everything, right? But it's like, you know, there are certain things like using your femur muscles, using your legs to fight back. Being on the ground was even in my benefit because I had more control of the situation, believe it or not. And that's why I was able to kick the knife out of his hand. And I hope that every person has that in them to defend themselves. So that's why I love to talk about this.
Absolutely. Well, and when you get feedback like that, you know, that you've helped somebody, I mean, for me, there's no better feeling. Nothing motivates me more to do this work than when you get those messages of you've helped me because you shared your story. I was somehow able to improve my life or improve this situation or just...
make it better in some way. And I know that your journey talking about this has been a big and long one because you've also had these experiences where you didn't get to tell your story and lots of other people have told your story. So...
I would love to. I mean, and of course, if you have anything else to add that you'd like to add, please do so. But I would love to talk about that transition of how you really reclaimed your story after. Because, I mean, my gosh, at a certain point, it seems like it was everywhere. It was on Netflix. It was on the podcast. Everybody was talking about it. And it seems like it was everyone but you talking about it.
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Thank you. I think
To be honest, I was also still stuck in the appeasing side of it because I wanted to... Working in the industry, you're taught to be the perfect person on set. You're not supposed to talk to the actors. You're not supposed to do stuff unless directed to do stuff. You're supposed to do everything that the director tells you or the AD more so. It's mostly the AD telling you to do stuff. But...
I wanted to be that perfect person and I wanted to be not that difficult person to work in the industry because people get that name even if you're a survivor. And I honestly didn't really become aware until I started having conversations with you and Lenora and seeing the stuff that you guys post and you guys talk about and then talking to so many other survivors and then I was like,
Like, oh my gosh, this isn't right what we're going through. Like, this isn't right. We're the only person, the only person on set not getting paid. Right. And everybody else has a set rate. How is that fair that we're supposed to work for free or share a story for free just for that exposure? And then we don't really have...
a sense of the way it's being produced. Like, I mean, I'm very thankful for the platforms that I'm on and, you know, that they've given me. However, I may have been offering money and other people haven't. Like, Rita Isbell, for instance, like, she saw, like, Netflix series just come up on her Netflix channel.
And she's like, oh my gosh, like I have to relive this over and over again. And I work a lot with survivors and it's crazy how, you know, like,
People that are minority or people even in different states get offered less for their stuff because they don't, you know, they don't get how the industry works as much. Oh, yeah. There's, oh, there are a lot of people who take advantage of families and survivors and people who have never maybe seen a contract before in their lives. I was one of those people. Absolutely. Yeah.
And I know that the second we bring up money, people are going to go, ugh. You know, they just – you know, they're going to – you know, they just want to be paid. They're in it for the money. And it's not that. It's like the equality of the treatment. You know what I mean? Like you have this Netflix series. You have this podcast. And let's be real. They are making millions of dollars off these things, millions of dollars. And that is off of your trauma. And you go through trauma during those productions and then they just –
And I don't think it's always malicious, but it's like then you're just dropped from it. And then you have all this residual trauma that you may need therapy for or services for. And so not only are you going through this experience, you are paying to go through this experience. So I don't think anybody is like, I'm here to get rich off of it. It's just like, why is this system like this? It is inherently unfair. We are...
inherently being used. I always say that families and survivors giving interviews are almost like
The unsung like workhorses of true crime, they're like the little ant workers beneath that don't get anything but make all these other people, you know, whether it's fame or money or whatever it is, you know, that's all off the backs of people like you and me. And I don't think that we're over here like give us millions of dollars. We're just like perhaps we could have equal treatment if we are, you know, quite literally in some cases creating your entire production. Yeah.
Yeah, no, and, you know, the actor that gets to play us, like, the minimum that they'll get paid is probably $600. Yeah. You know, and that's a minimum. So if they have to play us in a sense, like, shouldn't we also get, like, a cut of that? And I'm only saying this because this becomes our job, and this becomes what we do, but then we have to...
find these other outlets of work to try to make things afloat and to try to even get food on the table for ourselves. Like, I mean, I, like, I love so many survivors and I love people, but when I see someone get pregnant and stuff, like if that happens for me, I'm like,
holy crap, like what would I even do to take care of that baby? Because I am struggling to make money myself because I've been thrown into this world. And I mean, I did give consent to share my story. However, I didn't realize that a podcast can make money, especially if over a hundred million listeners. Uh, yes, podcasts can make a lot of money. Uh,
that's the thing. Like if you're essentially, and I don't know that this was your experience. This was my experience with another podcast where I felt like,
I was essentially being the executive producer of the podcast. At one point, I was editing the podcast. I was editing things for the podcast, I should say. And again, it's not about like, I want to make millions of dollars off of this. It's like every other person is paid in these positions, but then it's somehow unethical to pay us for that same work. And, you know, I think there's a balance, right? Like, you know, I would never expect to be paid for an interview. I get that. I get the ethics of that.
But if I'm consulting with you, if I am executive producing this in a sense, then yeah, I expect to be treated like any other professional in the business. I don't think that it's fair to exclude us from those positions while we are doing the exact same job description, like to the T. It's just, it feels very much like exploitation and it doesn't feel good. Yeah, no, 100%. And it's just interesting because
Yeah.
the producer who was there with me because if I hit him up to this day like I think I told him I went on a podcast and I was like hey just so you know I'm talking about this stuff but it doesn't have to do with you I'm just you know speaking for survivors and
the ethics of everything but if I text him and I'm like hey I need this or hey can you be there for me he'll be there for me this day like his whole family would and that is a different kind of producer in a sense like he the attack in the show actually was 100% from my point of view
I sat down with a stunt coordinator, the director, the executive producer, and we went through everything and we made sure it was the way that I wanted my attack to be shown. And I was so incredibly grateful for that. I did make money off of that series. However, it's not like the money Julia Gardner may have made off of that series. Of course. Yeah. And I think that that is...
what we need like if I also threatened to tell them I was like I'm gonna take this and I'm gonna go sell it and I'm gonna get an agent and I'm gonna sell the series I was told that I couldn't like you could do that but we already have it sold to Bravo for two seasons so oh yeah there's no consent involved yeah oh yeah no you just get a call one day and they're like oh yeah no we're doing this whole thing about you and your story and it's like oh I'm
I mean, and that's what's so hard, right? Because I do believe in free speech, right? Like, anybody can pick up these stories and talk about them. But does that make it a good production? You know, in my opinion, I think it makes it a better production when you actually speak to the people involved. I mean, crazy concept and true crime, I know. But, you know, it's the difference between, like...
I always equate it to perhaps something like a podcast about being in the military. Like, do you want to hear that from someone who's never been in the military? Someone who's just researched being in the military? I mean, I wouldn't. You know, same with like a medical field, right? Here's a nursing podcast. Well, what are your credentials? Oh, nothing. I just researched it. Like, why in true crime is that 100% acceptable? And in some cases, to some listeners, actually preferred, you know, I...
I'm sure you've heard the same feedback. Like, I don't want to hear it from you. Like, you're too emotional. You're too close to it or whatever. I want to hear my favorite person who researches and Googles it retell this story. And it's a hard thing to grapple with. Oh, 100%. I'm like, wait. Okay, so you don't want the actual person that knows the details. Because I'll tell you, like, this is – I'm –
I'm kind of weird when other people cover my story like I get it. And I am friends with a lot of people that have covered my story and not let me know right away, you know. But I give them grace because they want to help me out now, you know. But every time I listen to something that someone else has done without any of the victims or survivors there...
There's always things where I'm like, oh, that's not right. That's not right. No, that's not right. And I'm like, wait, what? Like, I, yeah, I'm a fan of like, so this like YouTuber and they covered my story and I'm like, oh, that's not right. But I really like her. Yeah. Yeah. No, I get it. It's hard. And it's.
And, you know, I cover a lot of different cases, right? I do unsolved only or solved if I have someone that can participate. But it's hard because I truly don't believe in every case. You know, for example, I cover a lot of cases of children going missing from foster care or perhaps a child goes missing or is murdered and the parents are, you know, there's a lot of suspicion on the parents or the caregivers. Like in that situation, I'm there advocating for the child. I'm not going to go ask for a parent that may be
you know, suspected to be involved to come interview for my podcast. Like above all, I'm there for the victim. But as much as possible, I try to incorporate other people. So I know that it's a finicky thing, I should say. And I also do think that, you know, when your case was being covered a few years ago, true crime looks completely different. Like it has...
so much in just these few short years. Like when I first started doing the podcast, no one had a call to action. Nobody at the end of their podcast was like, hey, maybe you can actually help these people we're talking about. And now it's like, you know, it's like a standard almost. You know, what's your call to action? How can people help? It's almost, it's not a requirement. Obviously, there's no requirements in true crime because it is the Wild West. But it's definitely becoming more of a standard, I think. So yeah.
I think things are changing, but I think both of us have kind of been through the ringer as being a part of that change because it's excruciating. Well, and I think that there really does need to be a change, but what is the right change? How do we make it apparent? And I think having conversations like this, having the platforms that we have, and yes, we do get those haters, but sometimes actually having conversations with those haters sometimes is
Like they see that we're a real person and that we're actually going to respond to them. And then they're like, oh, I didn't see it like this way. Like I remember responding, like when we were on that text thread and stuff, responding to someone and standing about for one of the survivors. And I just went on and I explained like, listen, hey, I understand that you're feeling this way, but you need to.
Try to see it from our point of view. Like, we're the only ones that don't get paid on set. Like, we're the only ones that are kind of being used for free. Is that fair or is that expectation in a way? And just like bringing some sense into the question might help other people where, you know, there are other people where they're like, nope, you're wrong. You're guilty. You're this way. And those people, you know what? You're not going to change those people.
But it's so helpful to have conversations with other people that are willing to listen and willing to listen to that change. And I think I don't know about you, but I think that ethics for me, there's so many people that have difference of opinions about ethics even. And I think just like the ethics is like.
asking someone asking someone hey I really want to cover your story like would could you be a part of it or can you point me into the right direction for good research for this project and if they don't respond like know that some people are in seasons with their trauma and don't want to like talk about it this time but may want to talk about it later and
And then other people just want to be left alone and all should be respected. Absolutely. Absolutely. This is Jessica Knoll, host of the new series Back in Crime.
If you're a follower of true crime, you're probably familiar with some of the most shocking stories from our history. Horrific tragedies like the Columbine Massacre. And notorious criminals like cult leader Charles Manson.
In a scene described by one investigator as reminiscent of a weird religious rite, five persons, including actress Sharon Tate, were found dead at the home of Miss Tate and her husband, screen director Roman Poliansky. But what if we were to turn back the hands of time and relive these events as they unfolded? Follow along each week as we take a fresh look at crimes from the past. Back in Crime is available now.
I mean, I'm just in awe of what you've done. You really, and I, you know, I have to say, I think you've had it obviously a million times harder than me. You know, I think what you are accused of is so much worse than what I've been accused of. And I can't even imagine. And what you went through is so deeply personal. I mean, how does it feel when you just, when you just see it pop up and somebody covers your story? I,
Honestly, like there's times where I do go to like the appeasing and I do get excited. I'm like, how can I collaborate with this person? But then there's other times where I see maybe like a TikTok and it's this one huge makeup artist and they're using my audio and it's really inappropriate because not going to lie, that TikTok I did, I'm just like, I don't know.
A bubble sometimes. And I don't realize that I am like aligning certain things. But like the daddy's little monster t-shirt with the audio. It just, I mean, it kind of was comical in a sense. But it's no one's.
audio to make fun of it's no one's there's a story behind that and I used it to try to create awareness it wasn't planned to be like oh daddy's little monster killed her stepdad you know and you've had my support well you've had my back with that one and you let me know when it was out but it's like people sometimes just need to stay in their own lane
And, you know, if you cover something about me and you haven't reached out, just know I'm always here and I can consent. I'm really easy to shoot an email, DM on Instagram. Like, I see it. I understand.
will respond to you you know um i may not be able to respond one day but i'll respond like a couple days later or something and consent we are so big on consent with sex and why aren't we big on consent with people taking our trauma stories because to me that's just as vulnerable
You know, I will tell you the response I always get to that because, you know, when I first started talking about ethics and true crime, I got a lot of backlash. Like, it was really hard. Like...
I got attacked for everything I did. And what I would always get was, well, it's free speech. It's free speech. Why do you want to hinder free speech? We're allowed to do anything we want. And so I always try to like flip that back on, especially content creators. I'm like, oh, okay. You know what I mean? Like, okay. So if you have a prior arrest record, you're cool with me making a podcast episode about that.
Oh, no. Am I violating you now? Oh, interesting. And I don't mean to be malicious like that, but it's like I don't know how to make them see it any other way. Like we're not trying to, you know, tarnish free speech. I am 100% for free speech. Free speech saved me. Free speech is how I was able to tell my sister's story. But there's a difference, right? There's a difference between being malicious. And it's also kind of like,
okay, well, you know, if you're going to take this approach and do what you want to do, then don't sit there and complain about the backlash when people don't like it or people say that you're being cruel or that you're not considering somebody's feelings because all those things are true also. It's, you know, it's like they want to silence us and then when we speak up, then we no longer have free speech. You know what I mean? Like,
Yeah.
And I had no idea that there was this teeny tiny clause that said you cannot speak about the subject matter of that podcast, which was my sister, which meant I was not allowed to speak about my sister until I went to court and fought it.
And I mean, it's just insane the way that they will take your story and, you know, back it up with the free speech. And then the second you try to talk about having a negative experience, they try to shut you down. And it's like, man, it's a two-way street. Like if you have free speech, so do I. I'm allowed to say I did not like your production. I did not have a good time on your production. You traumatized me. I did not appreciate the way you went about that. It's not
For me, I don't, like, it doesn't feel like, I'm not trying to cancel anybody. Like, these are really important issues that people need to know as they consume true crime.
It's not just gossip. It's not just being mean. It's like, you should know this is how the final product that you're receiving is made because I think it's important. Maybe I'm just that person. Like, I want to know, like, where do my eggs come from? Like, are these chickens being treated nice? You know, like, I am that person. I am a very, I try to be anyway, the best I can, a conscious consumer. So that was a really big rant about free speech. But it's like, yeah, it goes both ways, man.
Wait, I'm like, well, I first want to say that that means that you've gotten somewhere if you've gotten hit with a legal order like that.
that? I guess so. I guess so. It was really interesting. One tweet did it, apparently. One very vague tweet that didn't even name anyone. But in the end, I won. You know, we went to court, and the judge ended up saying, like, this is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen. And I was like, yeah, I agree. And I had, it was so bad. I had to sit there on the stand, and this person hired what feels like the meanest lawyer on the planet. And
And they just kept yelling at me. They were like, that made you angry, didn't it? And that made, and you didn't really care about your sister, did you? You just wanted the fame. It was horrendous. It was, it like primed me for the trial I'm about to go through. But like, it was, it was one of the worst things I've ever gone through. I'm so sorry. Like, um, I like want to, I kind of want to know who they are, first of all, so that I can like have them on my shit list.
But like, I mean, I've gone after like I've, you know, randomly said podcast names and stuff as examples here and there. And like, yeah.
It's just I call people out so that they could do better, you know. And, you know, from when I've called out certain people, like I've seen this person have on so many survivors and donate so much of their portions to survivors and stuff. Like we are all in this space and we can all learn and grow. Like and it's for the survivors to call them out and kind of like and, you know, I
do that sometimes because we all need to learn and grow. And if you're an empathetic person, you're going to want to grow and make it ethical, you know? Yeah. So I'm, I'm surprised that happened. And I'm so sorry. And like, I, I mean, that's why I also don't talk about like,
Billy Jensen as much you know like if I I'm in I don't want to allude to too much but if I say certain things about him then I could get hit with a cease and desist but it's all on the Rolling Stone article so it's all public right there there you go well like that's
Yeah.
And I had to like answer to that to the lawyers for the trial I'm going through. You know what I mean? So I'm like, hey, like this is affecting my life. I'm not just trying to like be a jerk or like get attention or whatever. Like when you say I'm doing something that I'm not, I have real life consequences I have to deal with.
And I was terrified. You know, it was right when my dad got arrested and everybody was covering it and I was terrified. So, you know, so I really don't call people out a lot. But I also feel very much that if in this position where we're talking about true crime, creators like me, you know, creators that don't focus solely on survivors like you do, you know what I mean? And having that full consent part where they're telling their story like we're doing today. Yeah. You know, there's...
There's like, I lost my train of thought. Hold on.
I'm like getting so passionate speaking with you. What was I going to say? Oh, okay. I was going to say that there's a risk involved with being a creator like me. You know what I mean? Like a family may not like what you have to say. A survivor may not like what you have to say and they may call you out. And you know what? It sucks. I've had somebody email me and say, hey, this episode hurt me. And you know what I did? I talked to them and I fixed it and it was all fine. I'm like,
But that is the position I put myself in. You know, I'm ready. Like, if somebody wants to call you out, that's, again, the way that free speech works, man. You have the free speech to create a podcast about whatever you want. And these people that you're talking about also have the option to say, hey, I don't like that. You can't have one without the other. Yeah, no, and it's so true. And, like, you know, there's –
Whenever I share my story, there's like other Dirty John survivors. And I'm like, I hope I don't offend them in any way. And I hope I tell the story right for them, you know. And I hope they're not reliving their trauma over and over again. I mean, I bet you they are. But he came after me and this has really been my journey. And I didn't ask for him to come after me. And I was the one that ended it. So...
That's why I, and every time I talk about it, like someone contacts me and they're like, oh, I defended myself in this or, you know, I got out of this dirty John relationship, even though I don't really like that word. But, you know, there's so much growth in me sharing my story. And so really the positive outweighs the negative.
And, you know, all I can do is hope that if they don't want to see it, that they block me and or they'll tell me like, hey, you know, can you just tell it like this? Like, I mean, Tanya in the beginning, John's ex-wife, she told me that she didn't like for me to call John the devil. And so I stopped doing that because out of respect to the other survivors in this.
Yeah. Well, and you've really, I mean, this is your life now. You've really, you know, you do a lot of work in this space. I know that you started with the podcast I was on, Time Out with Tara. And that was a great experience with you because you are so sensitive and wonderful and you were so, so kind.
But over the years, I feel like you've really blossomed, for lack of a better word. Not that you weren't beautiful and blossomed before, but I feel like you're reclaiming your story. You do the trauma workshops, and now you have this very exciting new podcast, which I would love for you to tell everybody about. But yeah, I guess tell us what you're doing now because I see it. I don't know if my listeners see it.
So I have Survivor Squad podcast. And, you know, it's not the only ethical true crime podcast out there, but it's a different format more so than like yours and other survivors out there where we kind of have the banter. And it's, you know, we have the guy and the girl perspective of true crime stories, I guess. And we have conversations where I hope it brings change where, you know,
You know, we're all similar in a space, but we're all different too. I think it's unique in that sense of the banter. And I haven't heard anything like this, and I do listen to a lot of podcasts. So if you have a similar podcast, I don't want to step on your toes. But I think it's very unique in that factor. And I've, you know, I've gotten great feedbacks from the other survivors that –
So Jennifer Faison came on and she was from the Betrayal podcast.
Her conversation is more of a banter one where each survivor that comes on the podcast is a little bit different. We try to format it to each and every person where some survivors need to tell their story and get through that cathartic sense of that where some survivors are done talking about their story and they're just like, I'm done with this. And so we talk about...
the healing factors, the media, what it was like to deal with all of that, you know, because I think that this space, like, people don't realize that each survivor is different. They see us as just something to be seen and viewed. And so I just want to
you know, work with each survivor in the way that they want to work with. And even coming on your podcast, like you gave me some great ideas because I wasn't aware of
You know, I like to talk about my story and have it heard from my voice where I understand other survivors might want to have it narrated. And so I was like, oh, that's a great thing to ask the survivor if they come on the show. Like, do they want us to tell anything for them? And, you know, our voice, do they, you know, because I want to make this place heard.
as good as possible. And I want to make the space as good as possible. And, you know, we're all human. We all make mistakes. But as long as we're all trying to grow together and make the space a great space, I think that's the greatest thing. And, you know, that's why we created Survivor Squad and you created your show is...
for that. And I think that if you tune into Survivor Squad, you're going to find a lot of great survivors there. And it's going to align with this podcast as well with, you know, just having the survivor story told from their point of view. Yeah. Yeah. And of course, your co-host is friend of the show, Collier Landry. We love him. Yes.
Well, and I think, you know, maybe this is a terrible term, but it just came to me right now. It feels very much like true crime plus, right? It's not just the story. It's like, you know what I mean? It's like the aftermath of it all. It's like, okay. Yes. You know, for example, like if people wanted more details on your story that maybe you just didn't want to share today or weren't comfortable or didn't think of, whatever it might be, right? Yeah.
they can go look that up. Like the point is like for us to have this candid conversation and kind of peel back the curtain. And that's what Survivor Squad feels like to me. It's like true crime plus. I don't know. Maybe that's like the worst term ever, but that's kind of what it came to my mind. Well, I love it because I think of HBO Max. So I'm like, oh, we're like the Max too. Yes. And now it'll just be plus, right? Because yeah, they're taking away the HBO or whatever. Yeah.
But yeah, no, I'm so excited. And then with Survivor Squad, we also promote our coaching because if you're coming on and you're listening to True Crime Podcast, we do want you to have an outlet. And we also have resources in every episode. If you are struggling with domestic violence, toxic relationship or sexual trafficking, anything along those lines, because we want everyone to have resources and the call to action is
If they relate to something in the episode, because when you listen to these podcasts, you might realize that we're all survivors.
Yeah, absolutely. Well, and I think, you know, when people listen to these stories, they may not realize, you know, that it could be similar to a situation in their life that they could, you know, apply to make their lives better. So I think what you're doing is absolutely amazing. I just, I don't know, it's just so exciting to see you start this new podcast and just, like I said, just kind of grow and flourish. And I love seeing more people like us in the space. I think that
true crime for a very long time. It's getting a little bit better now, but like I mentioned earlier, it's like this disconnect where it's like these strangers who've never been through something similar or, you know, I'm sure many have, but, you know, oftentimes it's just somebody who picked it up and wanted to make content, right? You see a lot of people who have shifted from like they used to do lifestyle or beauty content and now they do true crime and it's, you know, and it's...
As long as you have good intentions and you're learning to grow, right, or you want to grow, I should say, you know, because I mess up all the time and I'm happy to say that. I think life is all about growing and being better every single day. So as long as you have that in your mind, you know, you're good with me. It's the people who are like, I've done nothing wrong ever. I have the right to do anything I want and make people feel however I want because freedom of speech. Then it's like,
Yes. You know, having the right to do something and it being like a nice thing to do are very different things. So I think you're like the best of both worlds because I think you have great intentions. You have a lot of, you know, work and experience in this space and so does Collier. So I think those survivors are in very good hands.
Thank you. Well, and he even says he learns a lot from me with his trauma. Every time I have a conversation like this, I learn something. You know, I feel like I learned stuff from you today. And I think it's just so powerful. And it's just a little bit different than traditional here's the facts of a true crime case. You know, bum, bum, bum, the end. True. Yes.
And they are entertaining in a sense, but you don't get to know the real person or the real story in a sense. Yeah. It's definitely more personal when you have, you know, perhaps the actual person it happened to involved. Yeah. Definitely more personal. Yes. All right. Well, I know that this is, you know, definitely going to be like a two-part episode at this point, which is so exciting. I love it. It's so exciting.
I'm sorry that I took up so much of your time. Why are you sorry? I really enjoyed talking to you. And I was like, oh, wow, we've gone a long time. But we've also needed to catch up.
I agree. I agree. It's been too long. We get so, everybody's so busy and everybody's so, you know, caught up in their own work. And, you know, admittedly, I am crazy busy over here with the trial. So I agree that we needed to catch up and I really liked it. I really enjoyed it. And yeah, before we close out first, is there anything else you'd like to say before I ask you to plug all your things?
No, but I will tell you some stuff after we're done recording. Okay. Okay. Sounds good. All right. Well, with that being said, Tara, where can everybody find you? Where can they find Survivor Squad and everything that you're doing?
So I'm over all platforms on social media, Tara Newell. And then Survivor Squad podcast is available anywhere where podcasts are available. And we'll hopefully have some YouTube videos available soon on there as well. Okay. Well, thank you so much for being on the show today, Tara. You're amazing. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me.
Thank you so much for listening, and please don't forget to give Tara and the Survivor Squad podcast a follow. And let's keep this conversation going on social media. I'd love to know what you think. Is it ethical to pay someone close to these stories to do the work traditionally done by an outside professional for things like editing, producing, or marketing? Is it exploitation if they aren't paid for those positions? How do you feel about creators discussing stories of survival without the consent of the person they're speaking about? And
And what right does the survivor have to speak out about those productions? I'd love to hear your thoughts about that and everything we discussed. So be sure to follow the Voices for Justice social media channels to keep this conversation going. But as always, thank you, I love you, and I'll talk to you next time.
Voices for Justice is hosted and produced by me, Sarah Turney, and is a Voices for Justice media original. If you love what we do here, please don't forget to follow, rate, and review the show in your podcast player. And for even more content, check out my other podcast, Disappearances, only on Spotify. Welcome to the secret after show. This one is going to be short. I just wanted to address, and I'm laughing because I have to laugh, the secret after show.
I just wanted to address something that's been coming up like literally every day in messages, on reviews for the podcast.
On Twitter, somebody created, it looks like they created a whole account just to tell me that I had great content, but they couldn't stand my voice and that my voice has changed. That's the feedback I'm getting is like, why did you change your voice? Why are you trying to like whisper or be more guttural? And this isn't by choice. This is me just naturally talking. And of course, you guys, when I read a script, you know, it's hard to get that natural voice, but I am trying.
And the bottom line is I got so many comments about my voice changing, right? Not just not liking my voice because that happens. Whatever. It's podcasting. I'm in your ears. If you don't like my voice, I get it. You know what I mean? I am sad to, you know, have you go. But I get it. If you don't like my voice, you don't want to listen. That's totally fine. But I got so many comments that my voice had changed that I did a little telehealth session with a doctor.
Um, and I was like, you know, I'm getting these comments. I don't really know what's going on. Um, you know, and one of the first thing they asked me was, uh, are you under a lot of stress? And, um, yeah. And when I explained the stress I was under, um, they were like, yeah, uh, if you're seeing a change in your voice, which it's hard for me cause I hear it all the time. Um,
If you're seeing a change in your voice, you know, if there's nothing, if your throat's not hurting a ton, which it does off and on, you know, I'm still going to go into like a physical doctor and like get my throat checked out. But they said that most likely it's just stress and that stress can make your voice really hoarse. And they also think that
it's very likely that because of all this stress, my body is basically just like tensing up at all times, which includes my throat and my jaw and my mouth. And, you know, although I've been like, I have my right here, I have my little honey water because tea gives me a tummy ache, don't judge me. So I have my honey water that's warm. You know, I do my vocal warmups. I sit there and say, you know, my name is Sarah Turney and this is Voices for Justice, you know, about a bajillion times.
trying to fix it. And, you know, at this point, the doctor basically said, I don't see your voice going back to normal until you're under a more normal level of stress.
So yeah, I just wanted to give you guys an update and let you know what was going on there. And I can only do so much. And I hope that, you know, you guys can just kind of bear with me. And as I posted on Instagram, kind of deal with the Janis Joplin vibes we got going right now. I know I'm a little hoarse. I'm a little raspy. But that's just how my voice is right now. So please bear with me. I will say...
The stress of the trial is unlike anything I've ever felt before. It's like, and obviously I can't go into too much detail, but it's like, sometimes it'll be like once a week, sometimes it'll be multiple times a day. You know, I get news about the trial or, you know, a document comes through, whatever it is, and it's like...
mentally, I'm wiped out. I feel like I could sleep for 12 hours after. It's just the stress is literally unbearable. And before you tell me to take a break, which I will if I need to, I will say that throughout this entire process, as always, you know, helping others and continuing this show and doing disappearances and continuing to work feels better than taking a break. And I'm not sure that, you know,
Taking a break from the show or any of my shows will really help lessen that stress. This is stress I can handle, right? The stress of work is something I'm very familiar with. I started working when I was like 16, right? And I've always had like multiple jobs or side gigs, Etsy, Amazon, Instagram.
you know, whatever, selling things on the side, flipping things. I've always had multiple jobs and I love to work. I really, really do. And so I don't want to take a break. And I think that helping other people is one of the only things that is keeping my mind bright at this time, to be totally honest with you. It's like that potential thing
of just making the world a better place when it feels like a really awful one to me sometimes. So yeah, I don't want to take a break. So hopefully you can just deal with my voice. And if not, if you need to take a break while my voice is...
maybe sounds a little more hoarse to you, that's totally okay. But I'm going to keep helping people as long as I can, as long as I have the time before this trial. And of course, I'm trying to get as many episodes in the can before the trial so that there's no interruption in service or whatever you want to, that's like the worst term ever, you guys. But yeah, I just want to keep it going. And I did want to address because there are a lot of you out there talking about my voice and
again, it's not intentional. I am trying to navigate it the best I can. It appears that it is a stress condition that I just, I do not see. And the doctor does not see getting any better until this trial is over. So unfortunately, that is the reality of my situation right now. I do hope that you stay with me. But as always, thank you for tolerating me here in this after show moment. I love you and I'll talk to you next time.