Losing Maura Murray Re-release
01:38:49 Share

What's something that works so well that it's basically magic? It's summertime, so how about air conditioning? Noise-canceling headphones? Meeting-free Fridays? Well, what about selling with Shopify?

Shopify is the global commerce platform that helps you sell at every stage of your business. From the "launch your online shop" stage, to the first "real life store" stage, all the way to the "did we just hit a million orders" stage, Shopify is there to help you grow. Whether you're selling trained detective t-shirts or advocacy gear, Shopify helps you sell everywhere.

From their all-in-one e-commerce platform to their in-person POS system, wherever and whatever you're selling, Shopify's got you covered.

What I love about Shopify is no matter how big you grow, Shopify grows with you. And they give you everything you need to take your business to the next level. Sign up for a $1 per month trial at shopify.com slash justice, all lowercase. Go to shopify.com slash justice now to grow your business no matter what stage you're in. Shopify.com slash justice.

Introducing Bluehost Cloud, ultra-fast WordPress hosting with 100% uptime. Want a website with unmatched power, speed, and control? Of course you do. And now you can have all three with Bluehost Cloud,

the new web hosting plan from Bluehost. With 100% uptime and incredibly speedy load times, your WordPress websites will be dependable and lightning fast on a global scale. Plus, your sites can handle even the biggest traffic spikes without going down or lagging. And with Bluehost Cloud, you get 24-7 WordPress priority support, meaning you're connected to WordPress experts and

Voices for Justice is a podcast that uses adult language and discusses sensitive and potentially triggering topics, including violence, abuse, and murder.

This podcast may not be appropriate for younger audiences. All parties are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Some names have been changed or omitted per their request or for safety purposes. Listener discretion is advised. My name is Sarah Turney, and this is Voices for Justice. So, you might have guessed by the title, but today's episode is going to be pretty different from anything I've done in the past on this feed.

Today, I'm discussing not the case of Maura Murray, but the climate around her case and how that is directly affecting it today.

If you aren't familiar with the case of Maura Murray, you will hear a brief overview of it, but I won't be going over it in any detail. That's because before I can even discuss Maura's case, I feel like I need to address this huge elephant in the room. The truth is, creators are being warned not to cover Maura's case. They are essentially being threatened to not cover Maura's case. And I'm one of those people, so let's talk about it.

To get a full understanding of why I am personally passionate about this situation that's happening in the Maura Murray case, we need to step back a few years. Let's step way back to when I listened to my first podcast, Missing Maura Murray from Tim Polari and Lance Reinstierna. This is probably around the year 2016. I will never forget getting ready for work every morning with my phone blasting that podcast. Honestly, I couldn't get enough. The story engulfed me.

But more than that, I began thinking about my sister. I thought, wow, I wish someone cared enough to do a super in-depth series about Alyssa like these guys did about Maura. So when I saw that the very case that highly inspired me to talk about my sister's case is now being treated like a taboo subject, I wanted to talk to you guys about it.

Moore's case is obviously still popular. I don't think it will fully ever fall from the spotlight. In my mind, it's truly one of those infamous cases like JonBenét Ramsey, Natalie Holloway, or Madeleine McCann. For those of you that have been consuming true crime content for many years, you probably remember the documentary, the podcast, the articles, and even a book about Maura Murray.

It seems like for a while there, the entire world was trying to figure out what happened to Maura, and everyone was giving their take on it. But somewhere along the way, that momentum slowed down. Now, this happens in true crime. Sometimes a story is everywhere, and then it kind of just tapers off as most people cover the story. But something else happened with Maura's case. Something darker.

When I began telling people that I wanted to cover Maura's story, I was warned not to. I was told that I would be harassed, stalked, or worse. Then I began to notice and experience what was happening in the online Maura Murray community.

How all of this came to be could probably be an entire podcast series in itself, so I'm just going to go over it at a very high level. Essentially, a kind of all-out war in Moore's case broke out online. People on all sides were being accused of some pretty horrendous things. Everyone's intentions with Moore's case were picked apart beyond belief.

It seemed like every day there were new screenshots of messages and emails posted to discredit someone in relation to Maura's case. Creators were speaking out about other creators, consumers were speaking out about other consumers, and trolls were absolutely everywhere.

It became about who was encouraging the trolls, who was victim-blaming, who worked the case the longest and hardest, who knew the most. People were also analyzing every single word released from the Murray family. In time, most of what I saw on social media about the Maura Murray case was about those in proximity to it. The creators, the consumers, and the trolls. It felt and still feels like an all-out war at times.

That being said, I think it's really important that I acknowledge that there are some really amazing people in the Maura Murray community, creators and consumers alike. I also believe that most people have or had good intentions when first learning about Maura's case.

But I really think Maura has been lost in her own case. I began to see fewer and fewer posts about the facts. People weren't really talking about, you know, like the rag and the tailpipe or going over the timeline of the day she went missing nearly as much as they were debating things like whether or not Maura was a sociopath or whether or not her sister Julie Murray needed to address certain issues in this ongoing war.

Again, Maura seemed to be lost in her own case. Throughout this war online that still is raging at this moment, I've been tagged in a few posts. So, I made a statement on Twitter. I said, quote, For the record, I thought I should make it super clear whose side I'm on in all of this Maura Murray drama. It's Maura's. Always Maura's. End quote.

And man, did that open up a huge can of worms. Just that simple statement led to countless DMs, emails, and conversations with others in this community. Now, I'm really, really not here to feed into this drama, so I'm not going to go over this extensively, but I did want to read to you some of the comments I got on my own tweet.

quote same literally every word you said the character assassination attempts people made over the years will never hold any weight to me i see right through it my priority will always be the victim and the peoples whose lives they touched who are now victims themselves

Another comment stated, quote, And another comment, quote, End quote.

And this particularly interesting comment, quote, Why is this case so messy compared to others? Is it just people that are possibly involved or more about the gossip and theories? It's sad that the focus is on anything other than finding the answer to Moore's disappearance. End quote. Another comment, quote, The non-stop, never-ending royal rumble. End quote. And the last comment I want to share with you, quote,

End quote.

Now, I've never covered Maura's case, and I've made very few public statements about the drama. Yet from this one tweet, I was inundated with questions about whose side I was on. I was sent what felt like an endless amount of screenshots showing conversations from creators and consumers alike about other creators.

In short, it was a mess, and it's still a mess. It seems like the focus wasn't really on Maura or trying to find her, but more important than that, it was really scaring people away from covering her story.

Now, you might be thinking, what's the big deal? Maura's case has gotten a ton of coverage. What more can be said? Honestly, that's a fair stance. There's no denying that Maura's case has gotten more than its fair share of coverage. But at the end of the day, it's still unsolved and Maura still needs our help.

Honestly, one of the hardest things to hear in my sister's case was that it was too big for people to cover. It was too mainstream. Now, as a creator, I get it. Everyone has their own style and preferences for the cases they cover. I respect it. But as a family member, it was really hard for me to understand. You're telling me the case is so huge and I don't need help, but I'm still over here begging for the world to care because it's still unsolved.

In my opinion, that's where Maura's case is at. It's infamous, yet the coverage has slowed. And I know that many creators steer clear of this case because they don't want to deal with the drama, harassment, or bad reviews that inevitably come with just mentioning the name Maura Murray.

Honestly, for a newer creator, or even for someone like myself, just a few dozen people outright attacking your credibility or attacking your podcast can literally ruin you. So I'm not here to blame any creator for being afraid to get involved. Honestly, I was and still am. But I think there are some questions here that are begging to be asked. Like, what about Maura? Should Maura's case take the brunt of the community's actions?

Should the issues that surround these cases negatively impact the person who is missing? Obviously, in my opinion, I don't think it should be this way. Creators should not have to be scared to cover a missing persons case because of the online community that surrounds it. So that's why I'm here talking about it today. That's also why I wanted to reach out to Maura's sister Julie to get her take on all of this.

After this quite lengthy introduction, you will hear a very candid conversation between the two of us. Now, I already know that this is probably stopping some of you in your tracks. Honestly, some of the drama, or whatever you want to call it, has included a lot of scrutiny over Julie's actions. And we do address that. The reason I wanted to talk to Julie is because at the end of the day, Maura's family are the people who have been there since day one.

and they are the people other than Mora that are most affected by what's happening. Now, this may be a hot take, but in my opinion, creators can walk away from these stories whenever they want.

As someone who is both a family member of a victim and a content creator, I can tell you that I can separate myself from the victims I discuss. Of course, they all weigh on my mind and my heart, but I am able to create some separation there. For Alyssa's case, I can't. I think about Alyssa constantly. I dream about Alyssa almost every night.

Whenever there's a holiday or major life event, the thought of, I wish Alyssa was here, screams in my head. There is no escape for me from Alyssa's case because that's my life.

The same goes for Julie and the Murray family. There is no option to fully walk away. But creators do have that option. You can research a case until you are blue in the face, but you don't sit in on those hard conversations between families, between families and law enforcement, whatever it might be.

You don't experience the bad days, the sudden bouts of sadness and feeling empty. You didn't experience 21 years growing up with Maura. You don't sit at the table at Thanksgiving thinking about how Maura Murray should be there. So whether you hate Julie or love Julie or any other member of the Murray family, they deserve to be heard because they are the ones who are most affected other than Maura herself.

That being said, I'm not here to defend everything Julie or the Murray family has done in this case. No one on this planet is perfect. Not me, not you, and not the Murray family. I'm also really not here to attack anyone. Not creators or this community. I really do think that 99% of the people that are in some way a part of this do have good intentions.

Specifically, the consumers discussing the case. They spend and have spent countless hours tracking down facts to help Maura and her case. So please know that I see you and appreciate you. My goal with this episode is to just clear the air a bit. I want to address what's happening, how it's affecting Maura's case, and most importantly, how we can get the focus back to Maura and finding out what happened to her.

I also hope that by pointing out how this has, in my opinion, just gone way too far, we can prevent this from happening in other cases. Honestly, I see something similar brewing in the Gabby Petito case. The victim blaming and the conspiracies have at times outright overshadowed the search for answers for her.

But we can't address or prevent these things without discussing them. So that's all I really wanted to do today, just talk about it. To be totally honest, I've been sitting on this interview with Julie for weeks now. There's a few reasons for that, but one of which being I'm just scared. For those of you who have never heard of this situation and haven't seen it, that might sound dramatic. But for those of you that have followed it for a while now, I'm sure you get it.

Making this episode could be dangerous. I made one tweet saying I was on Maura's side, and I got some things sent to me that scared the crap out of me.

I have no idea what's going to happen by discussing this situation publicly with Julie Murray. But I had to think back to why I'm in this space in the first place. Of course, I'm here to tell you stories of victims in need of justice. But I'm also here to discuss the issues in true crime that are affecting victims and their families. I couldn't just say, no, I don't want to talk about this. It's too scary. There are too many people with high emotions about the topic. I don't want to put myself at risk.

That's not why I'm here. Above everything, above even being here for these families, I'm here for the victims. And today, I'm here for Maura Murray. So without any further introduction or explanation, here is my conversation with Julie Murray.

This episode of Voices for Justice is sponsored by Quince. I can't believe that we are rolling into fall, but we are, which means it's time to refresh your wardrobe. And luckily, Quince offers timeless and high-quality pieces that will not blow your budget.

Like cashmere sweaters from $50, pants for every occasion, washable silk tops, and more. All Quince items are priced 50-80% less than similar brands. And they do that by partnering directly with top factories. That way they cut out the cost of the middleman and pass those savings on to us. At this point, I've tried a little bit of everything from Quince.

and I'm still in love with their ten-cell jersey fit and flare dresses. Especially in Arizona, it's really easy to dress them up or dress them down and add some layers if it gets colder.

Make switching seasons a breeze with Quince's high-quality closet essentials. Go to quince.com slash justice for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. That's q-u-i-n-c-e dot com slash justice to get free shipping and 365-day returns. quince.com slash justice

This episode of Voices for Justice is sponsored by CB Distillery. If you're anything like me, my medicine cabinet was filled with things that just didn't help me. I still couldn't sleep, I was still in pain, and I was still stressed out. So I gave CB Distillery a try, and it has been a real change. And in two non-clinical surveys, 81% of customers experienced more calm.

and 90% said that they slept better with CBD. And I'm a part of that 90%. I've had trouble sleeping for most of my life. And after trying every tea, every pill that I could get my hands on, CBD distilleries' deep sleep gummies have actually worked for me. It not only helps me fall asleep, but it helps me stay asleep, which has been my big problem in the past.

So if you struggle with a health concern and haven't found relief, make the change like I did to CB Distillery. And with over 2 million customers and a solid 100% money-back guarantee, CB Distillery is the source to trust. I have a 20% discount to get you started. Visit cbdistillery.com and use code JUSTICE for 20% off. That's cbdistillery.com, code JUSTICE. cbdistillery.com

All right, we are now recording. So, Miss Julie, can you just take a moment and introduce yourself? Well, first, let me say thanks for having me on. I've been looking forward to this since we met, sort of, and I think we met in 2019, I

in person in CrimeCon. And I've been a big fan of your podcast and I listen to your episodes. So thanks for having me on. But for those who don't know me, my name is Julie Murray. I am one of Mara Murray's older sisters. Mara Murray is a missing person to this day. She's been missing for 17 years. And just a quick recap, I know we're not going to go a deep dive into the case, but in

In February of 2004, Mara was a nursing student at the University of Massachusetts. And she just left and went to New Hampshire for reasons that we still do not know. And then she was involved in a one, a single car accident in a town called Haverhill, New Hampshire. And she has never been seen or heard from since. Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, this is a case that I mean, I have, I'm pretty sure that your sister's case is the first one that kind of introduced me to true crime. I believe Missing Maura Murray was the first podcast I ever listened to. And forgive me, I'll never remember all the details because this was, you know, five years ago or whatever. And there are so many details to this case, which is why we're kind of not covering it today, right? I feel like

Maura's case and story deserves a lot more than one episode. I mean, honestly, it does deserve an entire series. It is a very intimidating case for me to cover because there are so many details and because of the community around it, which we're going to talk about. But I wanted to ask you, when did you specifically become involved in Maura's case outside of, you know, obviously just being her sister and caring? Yeah, I mean, yeah.

The initial shock of the disappearance kind of rocked my world for not only the several weeks after, but for years. And I had just...

gotten stationed at Fort Bragg, North Carolina. I was a lieutenant in the army. So I'm in this brand new situation, this brand new job, this brand new career. And then all of a sudden my little sister's missing and I'm hundreds of miles away. So initially I was sort of just a

Supporting my dad who was leading the effort up boots on the ground in New Hampshire every single weekend for years looking searching

There aren't any clues, so there wasn't anything found. So there's very little to go on. And so I was trying to continue to do my job as an Army lieutenant down in Fort Bragg while my sister was missing. And so that had its own set of unique challenges.

But I did come up back home to Boston and then would drive up the three hours to Woodsville when I could and search with my dad. And so it was just constantly searching, trying to track down leads. And this was during, you know, early 2000s. So

um, social media had just started. I mean, Mara's, um, case is deemed the first case, missing person case of the digital age, um, and Facebook launched the same week that she went missing. Um, so we, we didn't have it like we have it now where we had all these different Facebook groups and Twitter, um, and Reddit and you name it. Um,

TikTok and those type of things. So it was really just sort of a boots on the ground type effort, some small forums, local forums, and it was just word of mouth, local rumors that we went on. But we really, we didn't ever have anything to go on and it was tough. It was hard. So I did that for a number of years until I got out of the army. And then my aunt Helena Murray, she did the

the brunt work of the social media, um, stuff early on. So that was back when my space was around and she had a, a MySpace page and things like that. Um, but she unfortunately passed away. Um, and that left a huge, huge void, um, in my sister's case. Um, and that's sort of when I stepped up and I kind of took on that, um, public role, uh, social media presence role, um,

And I've been doing this ever since. Yeah. Well, and we're going to dive all into everything social media, because I think that that's, that's a lot of what we want to talk about today. But I do, I just want to give everybody an idea of kind of what you do behind the scenes. So what type of things do you spearhead for her case now?

Oh, yeah, that's a, that's a loaded question. But basically everything. So, you know, I'm a, a lot of people get confused. And they think families of missing people have react like sort of a company or a corporation. I'm a one woman show. And I have my dad and he's

you know, he's getting old. Um, he's still, you know, doing his thing, talking to people. A lot of people will open up to my dad, um,

and trust my dad and we'll tell him tips and things like that. So he works that. So I'll get in some emails or calls and they'll say, I will only talk to your dad. And I'm like, okay, got it. And I give my dad the number or the address that drives right on up there. Even to this day, he's in his late seventies. He'll still do that. Um, and talks to people. Um, but I'm,

I'm receiving emails. I'm running the website, managing the Facebook group with my little brother Curtis. And we have our silent supporters that choose to go nameless and be anonymous, but are certainly huge helps behind the scenes. So I'm definitely not doing this without support.

I am the figurehead and the spokesperson for my family, the only one. And I communicate with law enforcement when and if I need to do that. Curtis and I will do podcasts. We do interviews. We do all that type of thing. Yeah. So you really are running the show at this point outside of people who just want to talk to your dad. Yeah.

Right. Yeah. And of course, you know, every time I call my dad every day and we talk, yeah, we talk about where we want to go. Well, let me, let me correct the record here. He talks about the weather and his flowers first and foremost. And then we talk about, okay, what, what are we doing? Where do we want to go next? What are we trying to track down? What have I heard? What has he heard? So, yeah,

Although the case is technically considered cold because it's 17 years old, we're always churning. We're always doing something.

I can relate to that a thousand percent. It may feel cold and old, but, you know, like not to us. There's always some new avenue that we haven't explored. At least that's how I felt. There was always something. There's no shortage of things you feel like you can do, whether that's another podcast or another search or contacting another agency. I feel like there's just, it's a never-ending to-do list. You know, and again, I just kind of want to give the listener an idea of what you do and how much

bandwidth this really takes, you know, and going right along with that, if you had to guess, this might be a crazy number. I just I just want to get an idea. How many messages, comments, emails, things that you're expected to respond to? How many of those do you think you get a week or a month?

Well, as you know, it ebbs and flows. So whenever there's a media hit or a podcast released or something happens online, I get a ton of messages. So typically within a month span, I would say probably upwards of hundreds of

But again, it's not every day. Cumulatively, over the course of a month, I would typically say 100 would probably be accurate. Of course, once a big oxygen series, docuseries hits, that gets into the thousands, and that kind of trails off.

So, yeah, I mean, it takes a lot of time and it takes a lot of and I don't think people realize this. I know you do. But the emotional toll of that, you know, I'm I'm a pretty private, introverted type person. So when I have to be on it, it takes a toll on me because then I kind of have to come down. I call it like the media hangover.

You know, I'm sure you know what I mean. Yeah. I mean, you know, to your point, it is hard to be on all the time, especially when you have those off days. I mean, I experienced this. So I just have to imagine that you do as well. There's just some days where it does feel really sad and there's not as much hope maybe as other days where it's just a hard day.

And you get these messages and you want to encourage the people who care. You want to show them that you care, that they care. You want to like, you know, develop this rapport. And sometimes it's just really hard because you don't always feel like we're going to find her someday. Like some days you just don't feel that way. So I totally...

I totally sympathize with that. It's really hard. And when you get so many messages, I know I do, I feel guilty that I can't respond to them all. Like I used to in the beginning, I used to spend, I mean, my goodness, most of my lunch breaks at work, most of my bathroom breaks at work. Every free second I had essentially was responding to messages and responding to comments because I wanted each and every person who cared about my sister to know that I cared that they cared and that I appreciated it. And

once it gets to a certain point, it's like, it's, you can't anymore. It just gets too big. I mean, that's how I felt. Did you, do you feel similar or am I just speaking out of turn? Oh no, I, I feel the exact same way. Um, and, um,

For someone to take the time to make a comment on Facebook or to send me an email, however small it is, or even if it's just, hey, I'm thinking about you and I'm praying for you. Yeah, I feel horrible when I can't respond to that because that

And that fuels me and it does give me that little bit of hope that there's compassion and empathy out there in this mean world. And, you know, I want those people to know that I hear them and I want to thank them. But, you know, like there's times where you just can't get to it all.

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So let's dive into this community that we've been kind of talking about. Now, I'm just going to ask you to define the Maura Murray community. And I assume that this is going to be a mashup of all social medias, right? We're not just talking about Twitter. We're not just talking about Reddit. We're not just talking about the infamous now Facebook group. We're talking about, you know, this community as a whole. So how would you describe the Maura Murray community?

Yeah, I think it's important that we first define that. Defining the community is huge because in the whole true crime space, not just the Maura Murray community or your sister's community, it's people in true crime are either there by choice

Or they're like you and I, we don't have a choice. We're here. Right. And we have to be here and we can choose to ignore it, but we're in it, you know, and we're being talked about every single day on all these different social media things. And every single word we say is analyzed and overanalyzed and twisted. And so I think it's important for people to understand that I did not choose to be here.

And if I had a choice, I probably wouldn't be in the true crime space. It's just not my thing. I'm more of a history person and I, you know, want to watch sports and stuff and go hiking. But here I am and I'm part of it. And so for my sister, we have this community of people that

The overwhelming majority want to help. They see this mystery. They see that we don't have any clues. We don't have any answers. The police don't release any records. There's been no named suspects in over 17 years. And so as a society and as a Maura Murray community, we are

We want to problem solve and people want to help and they want to solve this problem and they want to see, you know, if they can piece it together and find that one missing piece. And I need that. And families of missing people need that. And, and,

I mean, I don't have to tell you that. So you've got that's the vast majority. However, there are some people inside of this community that are obsessed with wreaking havoc on on others. I don't fully understand it. It's toxic and it's a big distraction to

And it's almost like there's these little trolls that are these little puppet. There's one one or two puppet masters that are, you know, releasing all these trolls to distract. And it's very, very easy to distract in a case such as my sister's where there's no answers. So there's so many rabbit holes. It's not like I can lay out facts and say, no, no, no, that's wrong. That's not a good theory because X, Y and Z. And here's the evidence to prove it.

It's wide open. And I describe it as sort of like a storyteller's dream because you can tell whatever story you want. And so you've got these people that want to help. You've got these toxic people. You've got we've been infiltrated by trolls who want to distract. And it's just a jumbled mess as of late. And I am trying to keep the focus on Mara.

But it's very, very difficult and it's very challenging. So I also, as we spoke about earlier, I'm balancing all these different kinds of things. So I have to be careful that I'm not spending my entire time in Internet world trying to referee people fighting over things that are irrelevant. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I think a good question to ask here, since you brought it up, is

How much responsibility do you feel you have to moderate this community, to speak up for anyone in this community? And

Do you feel like an influencer in that sense where you are kind of elevated above this level in which you need to direct this community? I think that there's at least from the tweets that I've seen, there's been many people who have said, you know, Julie Murray needs to say something. Julie Murray needs to command her followers to do X, Y and Z. And in my head,

it's not as if you're choosing to be an influencer. You know, you haven't really crossed that line. You're not really putting out your own content. You're not out there making a ton of TikToks about things. You're not out there, you know, establishing this big Instagram profile or whatever it might be. And I just, I want to know in your mind, what type of responsibility do you think you have to this community?

That's a great question. And I'm glad you brought that up because you're right. I am not in this. I'm not a content creator. I'm a family member. I am a secondary victim in this. I am not in this to capitalize. I'm not in this for profit. I'm just in this so that I can continue the awareness for my missing sister because we haven't solved it yet.

And I need someone to come forward at this point, 17 years later, with that missing puzzle piece. And if I don't continue to talk about it and try to do the best that I can to keep awareness on her case, then people are just going to forget. And that one missing puzzle piece is just going to get, you know, just lost in the shuffle. And we're going to, you know, have all these Twitter debates about, you know, irrelevant stuff.

So my philosophy is, and I learned this from the military, is lead by example. So I can only control myself. So what I'm going to do and what you will see from me always is that I will take the high road.

100% of the time. I'm not in this. I'm not an angry person. I'm not vindictive. I have been wronged. I certainly have been wronged, but I am not that person that's going to go and lash out. I've got to maintain my focus on Mara and finding her. And if I get distracted by anything else, then I am doing a disservice to my missing sister. And I will not do that.

Um, so I lead by example, people can choose to follow me and follow my example, uh, and treat family members and, and treat Mars, um, memory with respect and dignity, or, you know, they, they can choose their own way, uh, and go down to a low brow approach. Um, but I'm not going to do that. Um, having said that, you know, I, I,

I should not be held responsible for the actions of others. There's many, many people in this community that have reached out to help. And as a, you know, a desperate family member, I don't really discriminate over who can help me and who can't.

Um, do I agree with a lot of the transgressions behind the scenes? Absolutely not. And you're not going to find me doing any of that or any of that on my record. Um, and, and so I'm sort of in this catch 22 where it's like, I need all this help. I need this media attention. But at the same time, people are demanding things from me when in fact they should be demanding statements from public officials. I'm not a public official. I'm a family member.

People need to go to the cops and demand statements from them, case update from them. Where are we 17 years later? Don't demand from me a statement like you're entitled to that type of thing because you're not.

You know, and having said all this, I need to make myself very, very clear. I don't condone any of the behavior that is causing people to be afraid, that is threatening, that is bullying. And again, I go back to my philosophy. You will never see me doing that. So I ask people, follow my lead because that's all I can do. Yeah. I mean...

I think, I mean, it's a really sore topic for me, right, is demanding things from family members. I think if you're truly in this to help, why are you following back up demanding things from these family members? I think it's a weird space that we're in where people will generously donate their time and their money, but there's a lot of strings attached. And I feel like not everybody, but there's certain situations where you're like,

Hey, man, like I thought you were just here to help. Like, I don't necessarily have time or resources to do X, Y and Z that you're now attaching to this help that you gave me. And I feel like that's kind of it's very unique to family members in this space. And I feel like it can easily turn on you. Right. Not responding to an email turns into she doesn't care.

You know, you making a broad statement instead of addressing something, you know, by name, by, you know, using someone's name as opposed to making a broad statement. It's well, she's suspicious. It just it turns so quick and it's really insane. And to be totally honest, you know, I spend I spend a lot of time.

on social media looking at these communities, not just Moore's community, but other communities, because I am so enthralled by this topic of ethics and true crime, and I want to learn more about it. And that comes down to the consumer, right? It comes down to the people making these posts. So I see a lot out there. All of that to say that Moore's community is very unique to me. I don't see this in

pretty much any other community in terms of aggression, in terms of people attacking you. I think that, like you said, there's so many people that really do care and they're doing amazing things and they're just trying to kind of fact find. But there's a lot of aggression and there's a lot of

toxic people out there that I think are kind of scary and not in this for the right reasons. And I by no means know every single thing about this online community. I think it would take, you know, like basically you'd have to get like a doctorate degree in the Maura Murray community to understand each and everything that's going on. Like even I was put on one of those email chains, right? This one of these massive email chains that people always talk about. And I'm like, what is going on? Um,

But, you know, that being said, I just I just kind of wanted to state for the fact that I do believe that the community has really gone sour and kind of toxic and it makes me sad. And that's the whole reason I want to have this conversation with you, because I want to I want to talk about how you think the community is affecting Maura's case.

Yeah, that's a great point. So negatively is my answer. It's negative right now. The current status of the community, the online community is negative. It's toxic. It is not even about Mara. It really isn't. It's these it's people that have inserted themselves into the case and have brought with them giant egos.

And, uh, the sense of entitlement. So it's like, who knows who's privy to what and who knows more and who's been at it the longest. I'm here to tell you, I don't care how long you've been at it. If you find that missing puzzle piece and you just joined the Facebook group yesterday, you're

You're just as valuable as someone that's been here from day one since, you know, February 9th. And, and that's the thing I tell everyone, like we discussed before, I can't discriminate. I'm not in a position to discriminate who can help me and who can't. I'm not a company. I don't employ anybody. I have no employees. I don't control anybody. I can only speak for myself. And, you know,

I just wish people could all get on the same page and, and realize the humanity behind what we're, we're all here for. It's a missing woman. And I'm living, breathing flesh and blood, right? Sitting right in front of you. And I'm her family member. I'm, you know, I'm,

struggling with this every single day, every single night. And I need help. And the toxicity in this community is just, it's not helping, it's distracting. And at every chance I get, I say, could we please focus on Maura? But it's hard when you have all these egos involved. Yeah. I mean, I really do feel like the focus has been taken away from Maura and that

It just breaks my heart, to be totally honest. And I, you know, while we're at the subject, I do want to touch on, you know, how you think this has affected Maura's legacy, because I feel like people don't really understand that.

But as you create this content, I mean, my goodness, even as you create a Twitter post, you know, you are kind of shaping the history of these people in a way because you don't know what people are going to find when they Google the words Maura Murray. It might be your tweet saying something negative about her. It might be a Facebook post that says something great about her. But, you know, I do feel like.

her legacy has been kind of tarnished and I don't mean to like overstep my bounds. I mean, it's your sister, not mine. But it's just, it's hard because I see people villainize a lot of her behavior that I find to be kind of normal, you know, and I do feel like I had an advantage with my sister's case and her being 17 and not yet hit that threshold of adulthood. They kind of gave her this pass for her behavior, but,

But yet Maura is demonized for, again, what I think is pretty normal behavior for a 21-year-old. I mean, I'm not saying that all of it's right. I'm not saying all of it's wrong. But I don't really find a ton of what she did to be abnormal. So how do you feel that all of this is affecting Maura's legacy? I mean, I imagine that there's younger kids in your family that will someday Google Maura's name and have to find these things. So I would love to get your take on all of that.

Yeah, I mean, tabloid bloggers have absolutely destroyed Mara's image and essentially turned her into an unrecognizable character in an alternate universe where they write themselves in as the victim. They become the victim in Mara's story. And my family and Mara herself

Are the villains and they go as far as to blame my family for our our own trauma Blame the family of a missing woman for their own trauma. I mean, it's It makes me sick. It's disgusting There are no ethics in that You know Mara is not here to defend herself. I'm it. I'm my dad and I and Curtis you know my other

Siblings, we're the only ones. She can't hear it. She's not here. She can't she can't defend herself. And to just pick and choose bits and pieces of a 21 year old's decision making skills and and post it in a public forum without context is.

Without empathy is is just horrible. And like you said, yeah, I mean, if people Google Mara, they're going to find these bits and pieces of her young 21 year old life that are just pulled and put on public display and ruthlessly scrutinized by.

this online community that is supposed to be here to try to help find her. But no, we're going to talk about how she, how an armchair diagnosis of a sociopath comes to be. How does that come to be? How is that victim-centered? How does that help us find Mara? Why is that on the internet? Why? That's not ethical. It's not morally right. And

I think there's this line where some of these armchair sleuths cross where they think, okay, I found this information out about a victim or a family member. And now it is my, or it's my responsibility to post it online. That's wrong. That's not okay. And that's where the ethics and true crime need to, we need to talk about it. We need to have a conversation because too many content,

creators, too many tabloid bloggers are doing that. And it's not okay. I think I went on a huge tangent and I don't even remember what the question was, but you're doing great. That's how I feel. That's my best form of being is being on a tangent, but yeah,

Yeah, I mean, it's just, it really, it's such a like bittersweet thing, right? It's twofold because not only is it content creators putting that out there, but there's also obviously a demand for this content from the consumer. People are obviously-

reading, listening, watching, whatever it might be. And I think that a lot of consumers fail to understand that the second you stop giving them your money, which is your eyeballs, it's your ears, it doesn't have to actually be your money, they'll most likely stop creating this content. So it's like,

You know, there's I feel that there's a responsibility on the creator as well as the consumer. Like if you read it or you see it and it's it doesn't feel good to you, it might be time to stop supporting that creator. It might be time to kind of walk away because I think that that's the best way to discourage this content. I mean, whether we like it or not, true crime is a part of the entertainment business. There's no getting around that.

I'm not saying it should be. I'm just saying that's how it is. There is a lot of incentive to create this content and that incentive is, you know, mostly fame and money, right? I mean, a lot of people are in this for the right reasons. I think that that's a huge driving force for a lot of people.

but once you take away those incentives of we're not going to listen to you when you put out stuff that doesn't feel good, we're not going to watch it. I think that those creators slowly die out. So I just kind of wanted to, I guess, say that for the record. I just think it's an interesting aspect that people don't think about is as long as there's demand for content that talks about more of being a sociopath, there will probably always be content out there like that. It's just, I don't know. It's something I'm really passionate about. So I just had to bring it up. Yeah. I wanted to, yeah,

Talk about something that I heard you mention. And if we don't want to go there, that's fine. But I remember hearing one time you, there was a seminar or a conference at a college and it was going to feature Alyssa and they were going to do some analysis. And you were like, Oh, I want to go because I want to know what these people are saying about my sister.

And I want to be there to sort of, I don't know how you, you know, if you were going to be able to, but protect her image, you know, or just know about what was being said about her. I feel that the same way. And it's an impossible task for you and I to be in attendance or read everything that's written about our siblings. And how do we as, um,

family member advocates protect the image of our missing loved ones. Um,

Think I think we're in the right vein by saying okay. We need to hold these people to account We need to say if you're gonna post salacious sensationalize clickbait Where did we're gonna stop following you? We're gonna stop reading it and Silence you in that way because that's all there is for these people. It's that attention. It's those clicks. It's breaking

breaking news, come back to my website tomorrow. It's that type of tactic that destroys the images of our audience.

missing loved ones, because people pile on to that. They're like, oh, this is okay. They're well respected. And so, you know, I'm also going to talk about these unfounded things about this person's, this victim or family member. So we've got to get to a better, we've got to make a change and we've got to get to a better point to where people at least give pause to clicking on that clickbait material. Cause you're right. You know, when it feels slimy,

We all know. And why are we clicking that? For entertainment. Oh, yeah. Yeah, for entertainment because we're interested. We want to see what the next thing is. And I actually had this on my list as like a side question because one of the things that I'm laughing, I mean, I'm smiling because...

It really does make me laugh when I whenever I see anything that's like exclusive news story about this case. I'm like, uh-huh. Like, it doesn't matter what case it is. But like in my experience, whenever I saw anything like that about my sister, exclusive new information, I was like.

Like, okay, so here's my question, besides my just tangent here is, have you ever read a headline that said exclusive new information and there was actually exclusive new information inside of that piece of content, whatever it was? Because I've never, I've never, I've never seen actual exclusive content when they advertise that there's exclusive content. I think, and I think that that's why this conversation is so important.

Yeah, like people don't get it. I think that they think like we know and we're like we're hiding back. Like, Julie, why didn't you talk about this exclusive content? You're like, because breaking news, it's not exclusive. Breaking news, it's not new. Like these are media tactics that go back decades and decades, especially with true crime cases like they're it's clickbait.

is what that is. And I wish more people would see that. So hopefully we can like set the record straight here that if you see something in true crime, unless it's like a fairly new case, right? Because I mean, obviously this doesn't apply to every case, but most of the time, if you see something about an old case that is like exclusive breaking news and you're hearing it from one person as opposed to all of the media or whatever, it's probably just clickbait. Probably just clickbait.

Yeah. Yeah. And that's, that's been my life for like 10 years is dealing with, um,

that how do I how do I approach the those clickbait tactics when I know it's not true? You know, I've gone so far as to write on my Facebook group, hey, if there's any new case information, it's going to come from me. It's going to come through law enforcement through me. And I've confirmed that with law enforcement on my sister's case. I'm like, hey, are you giving like

breaking information on my case and bypassing me. And they're like, they look at me like I'm crazy. They're like, no, why would we do that? You were, we're going to you. So I don't know.

Well, you're not alone in that either. I've seen that happen in plenty of other cases where the family member has to actually go to law enforcement and say, oh my gosh, are you talking to this creator, whoever it might be, because they're saying that they have this new exclusive information. And law enforcement's like, absolutely not. I have no idea. I've had to do that myself. I've had to go to law enforcement and say, are you giving this person exclusive information that I'm not getting? Right.

Which is silly because then you get back to wasting resources and wasting time because these detectives, nine times out of ten, aren't just working your case. They have a ton of other cases. And that might be the one email they get to about your case that week. And it's like, well, you took up my bandwidth. You get my one hour a week or whatever. And that's dispelling rumors and lies. And it's just – it all comes down to like –

a focus away from the case, taking away resources that could be used to actually finding this person, which kind of, you know, segues me into my next question is, you know, how do you think that this community around Maura and her story has affected possible witnesses or persons of interest? I mean, my gosh, I'm afraid to put out, you know, this episode, to be totally honest, because I know that I'm going to be attacked. I can't imagine being a witness

in Moore's case, even if that's a friend, they may have talked to her. I mean, anybody, I just imagine it would be terrifying to come forward, at least from what I've seen online. But I would love to get your take on what you think this community is doing to these possible witnesses or persons of interest.

Yeah, it started happening about 10 years ago where real sources felt alienated. And they stopped coming forward. They stopped speaking publicly. And then all of a sudden now there was suspicion because they don't want to talk to a certain person. Now we need to look into them as a suspect. And it's just crazy talk.

And people are afraid and they don't want to be the content of the next blog post. And that goes for witnesses. It goes for people giving tips. It goes for people supporting my family. So, you know, I don't need to tell you this, but every single person in my family has been publicly humiliated.

To the point where there's nothing left, like every speeding ticket, every misstep in our every single person in my family has been posted online, posted online. And so once you've exhausted all of that, the tactic now is to go into the history and anyone that

supports my family and start exposing them. So let's publicly humiliate anyone that wants to support this family of a missing girl. Um,

And it's sick. And people are like, oh, no, I'm not going near the Mara Murray case because, you know, I got this, you know, drunken public citation back in 1987 that I don't want put out there. And, you know, at this point, I don't blame them. And it's not fair. And it's hurting my sister.

You know, it's hurting the investigation because now we've got these potential missing puzzle pieces floating around that are people are afraid to speak up about. And then you've got these other people that aren't afraid and they just speak up about whatever. And it's total speculation. And now law enforcement has to go spend resources they don't have, money they don't have, time they don't have.

just nothing. And it's, it's exhausting.

Yeah. I mean, it all just draws focus away from Maura. And I mean, you know, from the creator side of things, absolutely. I mean, when I, I forget exactly what I posted on Twitter about the case. I posted something and immediately I got so many messages and emails. It was like, be careful about the Maura Murray case. Even if you don't cover it, if you just talk about it, people are going to look into your past. They're going to dig things up. And I'm like, do it. Like, I'm

Like, honestly, like, I just, I can't. And maybe because I'm in a different position, I obviously empathize with what you're going through. I just, it's absolutely insane. And it's absolutely scary. Like, other creators have told me, too, like, don't touch that case. It's not worth it. It's not worth the drama. And at the end of the day, all I see is Mora. I see Mora. And I see the fact that there is so much drama, for lack of a better word. There's so much drama.

I don't just crap around her case that has nothing to do with actually finding out what happened to her. And I think that that's what's so sad. What's so sad is that we have to sit here for an hour or whatever today and talk about this instead of talk about her case. But I do feel like it needs to be addressed. And I'm hoping that by us addressing it, it might give them, I don't know, more of a sympathetic lens that we're real people and that you're a real person. And it's

I don't get the feeling from you that you're ungrateful at all. Like, I'm sure that you're extremely grateful for all of this talk about Maura. I mean, she is. I mean, this case is one of the most popular cases in true crime. There's no getting around it. And I think a lot of that is because of this kind of crazy community that surrounds her. But in the end, it's kind of...

cannibalizing the case in a way. I mean, I don't even know what's straight. You know what I mean? I go on there and I'm like, oh, I didn't know about that. And I find myself going down rabbit holes. I'm like, wait a second. You know what I mean? You have to kind of pull yourself back and think about, is this actually helping the case or is this just disparaging someone for no reason? Why am I interested in this? Is it because it's dramatic? I just...

I can't get away from this feeling that people think that you're ungrateful when it seems to me like you just want to get the focus back on Maura.

This episode of Voices for Justice is sponsored by June's Journey. June's Journey is a hidden object mystery game, and you step into the role of June Parker and search for hidden clues to uncover the mystery of her sister's murder. Basically, you engage your observation skills to quickly uncover key pieces of information that lead to chapters of mystery, danger, and romance.

Throughout your investigation, you also customize your very own luxurious estate island. You collect scraps of information to fill your photo album and learn more about each character. But my favorite part is chatting and playing with or against other players by joining a detective club and putting my skills to the test in a detective league.

So, there's kind of two times that I find myself playing June's Journey. One is kind of throughout the day when I just need like a little decompression break, I play a few scenes and get back to work. Or more often than not, when I'm laying down for the night, I tend to play then too. For me, it's a nice way to unwind, decompress, and get lost in a mystery. Discover your inner detective when you download June's Journey for free today on iOS and Android.

This episode of Voices for Justice is sponsored by Ibotta. Are you planning your dream vacation but dreading the cost?

With Ibotta, you get cash back on all your purchases, so you can spend more time making memories and less time dreaming about them. Ibotta is a free app that lets you earn cash back every time you shop. You can earn on hundreds of items you buy every day, from groceries to beauty supplies and even toys. The average Ibotta user earns $256 per year.

That's a plane ticket, a shopping trip, or even a fancy dinner. And they have so many brands, over 2,400. Lowe's, Macy's, Sephora, Best Buy, and more. I've been using Ibotta for a really long time. It's one way that I make every penny stretch. And right now, Ibotta is offering our listeners $5 just for trying Ibotta by using the code CRIME when you register.

Just go to the App Store or Google Play Store and download the free Ibotta app to start earning cash back and use code CRIME. That's I-B-O-T-T-A in the Google Play Store or App Store and use code CRIME.

Yeah, I mean, anyone that's spent any time with me knows that I am so grateful. And I don't even feel entitled to my own sister's case. And I want people to talk about it. And when you have a missing person,

missing person case, you need people to talk about it. You need it to be in the public eye. So there's been plenty of people out there that have put themselves out on a ledge and said, I'm going to, I'm going to

you know, take one for the team and put myself out here and talk about this missing woman. And I am so appreciative of that. I am equally as appreciative of those type of people as the ones that are anonymous and that are, you know, by my side all the time and, and who I've established great friendships with and who I've trust, you know, and it's hard to, to trust people because, you know,

especially with the toxicity in my sister's community and the online banter back and forth, you know, you could write an email to one person and all of a sudden it's your emails posted online. And it's just that lack of trust. So I have a very small group that I, that I do trust. And that's sad too, because I've got this huge community, but I'm sort of afraid myself that,

Um, and it shouldn't be that way. I mean, all the facts and everything that we know should be on the table and there should be no fear of being exploited for that. Um, so it's not only exploiting Mara herself, my family, um, but, um,

anyone trying to help. And it just doesn't make sense. And I think it goes back to these egos in these communities that we have where people think they have a sense of entitlement. And this case is mine. And if there's anything to be known, it's going to come from me. And I want I want the story. And, you know,

And my sister was a real person. I'm a real person. It's more than a story. So when you start to rationalize clicks over morality and humanity, you create a situation where you've got all these trolling behaviors and it's hard to control once it starts. And I think that's kind of where we are with it now.

I agree. Yeah. And the ownership over this case is really strong. And ownership in true crime is something I've spoken about publicly about many cases. You know what I mean? It's something that happens to a lot of cases, unfortunately. But it's just for me, it's so wrong to covet it like that. Because if we want to real talk right now and talk about who was there first, it wasn't any of these creators. It's the family who's been dealing with the police since day one.

The family. Who's been dealing with all these persons of interest since day one? The family. Who knew them before all of this media exposure? Who knew them before this case even happened? The family. Those are really important things that I think creators forget about. And I think that they kind of swoop in and do a bunch of research and then assume that they're the authority. I had the same thing happen with my sister's case. You know what I mean? I had a journalist be credited for all of the media attention afterwards.

my father was arrested. And it's like, I do believe it was a combined effort, right? But like, I was the one putting in, I mean, I

honestly, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of hours to try to get this media exposure. And it's not that I want the credit. It's that I think it's really toxic for creators to take any type of ownership over these cases to say, I've put in X amount of hours. I'm the authority on it. I own it. That's not right. That's somebody's story. And if you look at like a historian, right? Somebody who is the end all be all on, let's just say Susan B. Anthony, right? And

That person still doesn't own Susan B. Anthony's story. I don't care if this is a historian that has worked on it for 40, 50 years. I don't care if they were there, you know, the day she was born. I mean, maybe that's a little bit different, but you know what I mean? It's it's it doesn't matter how much you research a case. Yeah.

you don't own these stories and you don't own these people. So I don't know why people act like that. I mean, my God, you even said it like you don't own your sister's story. I don't feel that I own my sister's story. So why are people who have never met our family members?

acting like they own this story, acting like they're the reason for all these breaks in the case. I just, I think it's really selfish. And I think that anybody who says that they own any true crime case is also a toxic person because there's, it's a huge effort. The reason that Maura's case is so big isn't because of one creator or one podcast or one book or whatever it might be. It's this huge effort of so many people coming together and caring and talking about it.

So I just I can't with ownership in the true crime community. I think it's it's really sick and it's really toxic. And I don't think it helps anyone. I don't think that one person should be the end all be all for any case. I don't think I should be the end all be all for my sister's case. Like go out to many sources. That's the beauty in this true crime community is that so many people can contribute. So why we're leaning on one creator for one case has never, never made sense to me.

Yeah, I agree. And in my sister's case, we have people that have literally written themselves into the story. So now, you know, when you're a reporter and we'll use your Susan B. Anthony example, you know, you don't write yourself into Susan B. Anthony's story.

life, you know, you report on it. And so we have a little bit of an issue there with Mara's case, because people want to, you know, it's a cash cow, and they want to, you know, use her for their launching point for their careers. And they write themselves into the story.

I just, I can't wrap my head around it, how people don't see that that is so hurtful and so wrong. But here I am, you know, reading stories about, you know, people who are victims in my little sister's missing person case. You know, it's crazy.

Yeah, the focus just gets shifted. And I think you brought up a good point. You know, you say that more is a cash cow. And I feel the same way about my sister's case. I want to ask you, how do you feel knowing that, I mean, I obviously don't have the real numbers, but I imagine that people have made upwards of hundreds of thousands of dollars off of your sister's case, if not more. How does that make you feel? Well, it would make me feel better if...

The monetizing of her case was with her best interest in mind. So if it was Mara centered, you know, victim centered, you know, raising awareness, you keeping her best interest at the heart of whatever content you're creating and selling. And that would be fine. I don't have a problem with that.

No, I don't have a problem with people making a living off of creating awareness for missing people and family members. The problem is when it becomes about them and the victim is exploited and the family members are exploited for no reason. And that's what I feel happened to Mara.

Yeah. I mean, honestly, I see a few different people who I feel insert themselves into Maura's case. I mean, why do you, why do you think they do that? If you had to guess? Uh, for attention, um, for, to make themselves, you know, I, I truly believe that almost all of them came in with pure intentions of, Hey, I think I can be the one to solve this. That

That's great. I want hundreds of people that have that motivation and that drive. Please, I welcome them all. Let's all try to solve this. But when it starts to become that territorial side and now it's power and it's influence and it's power,

You know, it becomes something more about it becomes the story is more about them than it is about Mara. And it's ego driven and it lacks empathy. So if any of these people had ever said, you know what?

I made a mistake. Let me hold myself to account. Let me correct the record or say, admit I was wrong. And here's why. And it's corrected. And I apologize. And let's move forward. I would be OK with that, too. But that doesn't happen because the egos are so big. And of course, I've had people that have admitted to me privately, hey, I screwed up.

And I want to apologize for any pain that I caused. And I really appreciate that because I, you know, we're not perfect. I'm not perfect. I'm, I make mistakes all the time. I, you know,

I don't know if you follow the crazy drama lately, but I put a thumbs up on a private message because I get hundreds of them. And I felt like it was like the thumbs up heard around the true crime world. It was like shocking that I acknowledged something

it just, just saying, I got it. I didn't even read it. Um, and that was a huge deal. And, and so now I've got to like, make sure that I don't touch my phone at night or, you know, I don't butt dial somebody or something like that. And that's not the way that it should be, but

Back to my point is, you know, we're all going to make mistakes and content providers included family members. But as long as you're a big enough person to admit, hey, I screwed up and I want to correct the record. That's fine. But for Mars case, people are not willing to do that.

Yeah, I don't understand how people are so hesitant to say, like, I'm so sorry I messed up. I've done that plenty of times, my goodness. Like, as much as I speak about ethics and true crime, I'm the first person to say I'm not perfect. We are all evolving and growing every single day because, hi, that's life. That's what happens. You have new experiences and you change. So it really does...

It does kind of drive me crazy that people can't just have that humility and say, hey, I think I did something wrong. I'm sorry. Maybe you guys shouldn't do the same thing. That's also kind of the responsibility of being an influencer, which I take really seriously. Like we were talking about earlier, but I hate the word influencer. But I do influence people in their actions. And there is responsibility that comes along with that.

And I wish more people would take that seriously. But it also goes back to what you were saying about the thumbs up message is you're not an influencer, Julie. At least you don't define yourself as one. I don't see you as one. You're not putting out your own content. Like I said, you're not building up these massive social platforms to help raise awareness, which I mean, I don't blame you for. I totally get it. I don't feel like you should be held to an influencer standard. And

To your point, you're getting at least 100 messages a month, if not more. I do the same thing where you kind of skim it. You don't read the whole thing. You might put a heart or a thumbs up, and then people are...

publicly posting this and it's like okay like so you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't you want me to respond but if I respond you're gonna put that online and you're gonna scrutinize it to death you're gonna overanalyze it to death when a thumbs up to you is just like great got your message thanks for caring bye and you didn't think anything of it and now people are kind of holding it against you so I just I think you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't I think people are either gonna see you as non-responsive or um

I just it just makes me feel terrible for you because I felt this and I felt like I've been in similar situations. Damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. So what do you do besides live your life and try to navigate it the best you can?

Yeah. I mean, it's, it's definitely difficult. And I, I just, I want people to know if I'm, if I'm responding to something, I'm going to put words to it or put a voice to it. Um, you know, that wasn't a response to anything. I don't, you know, I, I don't understand why I got so much flack for that. Um, but it's fine. Like I, you know, I, I can handle it. Um, but again, you know, it's, it's like, it's like walking on eggshells. And if I feel that way,

How do other people feel that support my family that have reached out to help but are like, oh, please don't like mention my name? It's sad. Yeah, it is. I mean, I think that there's an expectation for family members to walk into this space knowing we're going to get hurt and knowing that we're going to be criticized. I mean, it's just and it comes down to, well, don't you care enough?

Like, you know, why don't you care? Aren't you grateful? Oh, you're not grateful. Maybe she's suspicious. It's this it's this huge and you know, so you're and it's laughable. Like, we're not laughing because we think it's funny. I'm sure. I mean, I'm I apologize. I'm not trying to speak for you. But I think these things are kind of hilarious because it always goes down the same path.

why isn't she grateful? Oh, that looks suspicious to me. And it's like, dude, like we are just people trying to navigate this space. And maybe today on a Tuesday at 11 AM, I don't feel like fighting with you or whatever. Like I just, it just, it breaks my heart because I feel like there's kind of no winning. And we, we walk into these spaces knowing that we're just going to be picked apart and criticized. And again, I feel very fortunate. I feel like I, I,

I've been kind of blessed in a way that, you know, my sister was 17. I was so young. I didn't get a lot of the Brent that I see you get. So I just want to make that totally clear as I do feel like I have, I do have a privilege in this space and that I've avoided a lot of that. Not all of it. I've certainly seen my share, but it's just, I mean, do you feel the same way? I feel like family members are just walking into the space knowing they're going to be, that it's going to be even harder than just dealing with the normal situation. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, I know I'm going to get attacked. I know after this podcast, someone's going to say I use the wrong word or my phrasing was, you know, suspicious or maybe I'm hiding something. I mean, come on, guys. Like, I'm looking for my little sister. I don't know where she is. I don't know what happened to her.

I am not trying to protect somebody that did her harm. Okay. Like, why would I do that? Why would I, why would I put myself through all this pain and suffering and put myself out there like this? If I'm like, I really know what happened to her and you know, I'm hiding things. Come on. Like that's that clickbait mentality. That's the tabloid headline. That's not real life. That's not what I'm doing here. Trust me.

you know, I wish I had some answers. I don't. And, you know, it's unfortunate as family members that we have to go through this and, but it is, it is one of those things. And some family members, like, you know, we spoke about earlier, some family members don't have the resources or aren't equipped to be able to speak out. And I feel like I am, and I am able to, I have a, you know, I, I,

you know, take the high road. And even when I do that, like I could, I could say some stuff, you know, but I don't, I don't. But you should see my, my draft folder. Yeah, I'm sure. I hope, you know, and that's one of the things I do, you know, I write out what I feel, and then I delete it.

because it's not helping us find our missing loved ones. And so I usually am very measured and show great restraint, but I'm lucky that I have the emotional intelligence to do so because not everyone does. And pick me apart all you want. Put me on Twitter and tell me I'm hiding all these secrets and I actually don't want to find my sister.

That's been said, you know, people have said, I don't want, I actually doesn't want to find her sister. Are you kidding me? Sorry. And we're kind of reaching the end here where I feel like I'm ready to.

be on tangents and talk about whatever we haven't talked about before we get to how to get back on more, which is how I want to end this. But yeah, I mean, you're exactly right. I've seen the same things. I had someone on TikTok make over 100 videos about me and my sister and talk about how I never wanted to find her body. Because somehow, if I find her body, I stopped making money. You know, in some way that made sense in his head or whatever. And it's just,

it's disgusting. And I don't think people realize how much we go through, yet we still show up online. We know that we're just going to get beat up all day, every day, yet we do it

for the cause. We do it for our sisters. We do it because that's what we feel is right, as opposed to content creators that can walk away at any time. They can walk away, no strings attached. They don't have to go to family reunions and avoid, you know, the topic. They don't have to see headlines and be triggered. They don't have to wonder what this person's going to put out next about my family member. Is it correct? Is it not correct? That

Every day worry and just lingering in the back of your head isn't there for creators. They are free to walk away anytime. But even if we walk away from social media, we're not really ever free of these cases. They always live in our heads. And

I just wish people understood more of what it takes to really have an online presence in these cases. And again, you get it so much worse than I do, but I commend you for showing up for her every day. I mean, I've seen a lot of families who try to speak out publicly and then they walk away because it's too hard, because it adds more trauma on top of the trauma and violence.

Why put yourself through that? You know, I totally respect and understand people who say my family member who's missing or murdered wouldn't want me to have to go through this again. I'm going to walk away. I think it's for the best of everything, you know, for everything. And I don't blame them for a second. And I wish that there were more people that understood that so we can foster a more caring community for when these families want to come out and speak because it's it's really scary and it is really hurtful sometimes. And I just I hate that it is that way.

Yeah. And we need the family members to, to speak about the, the human behind the story in most cases, you know, for my sister, she's widely seen, but you know, nobody knows her like I do. Um, and it's the same for, you know, Alyssa, no one knew Alyssa better than you. Um, and it's the same story over and over with all these other families. Um,

We need to be more empathetic, show more compassion for family members, give them the space and the support that they deserve to speak about their loved ones as humans and not as clickbait and, you know, in my case, villains.

I think we're headed in the right direction. I think there's sort of a slow churning of this movement and people are kind of realizing the more that we talk about it. So I think you, I've called you a true crime hero multiple times because you're not afraid. I mean, I was blown away when I listened to how you just went in like a boss to the police department and you're just like,

handled yourself with such composure. I'm like, she is a badass. So I think the true crime space is very, very lucky to have you. So, you know, I want...

You've inspired me to take sort of that same approach with law enforcement in my own sister's case, because, you know, law enforcement in my sister's case is a big black hole. They don't tell me anything. We sued them. They don't give us any records. We don't know what the progress is. And, you know, similar to you, there was a change of personnel like right now.

right there, like all of a sudden the lead detective is not the lead detective anymore. No, same thing happened to me recently, very recently. And I'm like, what do you mean the lead detective isn't there anymore? Why am I getting these returned emails from who I've been communicating with for over five years? He's just gone. And nobody told me.

Not, not any sort of courtesy, not any, Hey, you know, I wish I could have done more or, you know, I'm leaving nothing just to return to send her email. That's what I got. So that's insane. Yeah. I mean, at least you got a, an email from, um, detective Anderson saying, Hey, you know, I've been reassigned or, you know, whatever the case was. Um, but there's,

There's situations like mine where you don't get that courtesy and I'm unsure why. And then I start to think, like, is it because of the media attention and all this craziness that's happening on the Internet that is now affecting the way law enforcement is acting?

treating my family. So does law enforcement now believe the tabloid blogger about, you know, how my family is this horrible clandestine group where we sit in the basement and plot how to, I don't know,

who knows, like distract and tell lies and keep secrets. I don't know. The amount of, the amount of time and planning that would go into that. My goodness. Oh my God. I know. So, you know, I'm, I'm on another tangent, but I just wanted to say that, you know, I've, I've seen, and I've heard, and you've inspired me, um, with your approach with, you know, no bullshit,

I'm just going to roll in like a boss and demand answers. And I think more family members need to start doing that and hold, especially public officials, um, hold them to the line, you know, give us an update. What are you doing? Um, and then, you know, and everything we've talked about so far about holding content creators to some sort of degree of, um,

ethics and morality and what they provide. And the more family members and the more you and I start standing up and doing that and people see us leading in this way, I think consumers will follow suit, I hope.

No, I totally agree. Well, first, I just want to say like, you're one of my heroes. Like you're one of the first people I saw in the space. I was like, damn, I want to be like her. Like she, I think you're a boss. Like you were in the military. Like you, you're, you're a boss. Like I, I went into those meetings shaking. I am the person that like won't return my food if it's like completely wrong. Like I am a thousand percent of that person. Like, no, it's fine. Like, don't even worry about it.

Um, it's like you have to kind of become this person for your loved one. You know, when I spoke with police, I'm like, what would Alyssa do? You know what I mean? She wouldn't back down. She would fight with facts. She would be a badass. And that's kind of what I what I embodied. But I like I worked with kids like I like I said, I was that person who wouldn't even return food like I hated social media. I was afraid to leave my house for several years. I think people don't realize that.

I didn't have like an early 20s. Like I didn't go out to clubs. I was I was terrified. I had really bad social anxiety. So I had to overcome so much to do this for my sister. And I don't regret it for a second. But I just I just want to kind of say that I wasn't like born like this. You kind of become this person because of your circumstances. You adapt and you evolve. Yeah.

But talking about adapting and evolving and going back to your point of consumers seeing what's going on and things changing, I truly believe that. I was in marketing in a past life or whatever now, and it's conscious consumerism is a thing that is growing in every single realm worldwide.

Look at all these documentaries about the ocean. You know what I mean? Look at people boycotting seafood. Look at even just people wanting to pick more green products. Is this recyclable? You know, all of that trickles over to everything. Most consumers want to feel good about what they purchase. They don't want to think that it's, you know, hurting kids or it comes from a sweatshop or it's hurting the environment or animals are treated horribly. I mean, I know that there's plenty of people who just don't care, but

Studies show that people are caring more and more about this conscious consumerism, and that is trickling over to true crime. I don't think that you see things reported quite like they used to be reported. It used to be like all these sensational headlines, right? Rude.

rebellious teenager leaves stepfather from abusive household coming up next at nine or pregnant wife leaves after suspicions against the husband. People don't like that anymore. They want to connect with these people. They want to connect with the victims. They want to know that they're being treated correctly. I think that this style of true crime where it

No offense to Lifetime, but it sounds like an old Lifetime movie where it's very sensational. It's very over the top. It's very dramatic for no good reason. You're going down rabbit holes on topics that the creator is well aware doesn't work out. The blood on the shirt, and we'll talk about it for 20 minutes, and it ends up being animal blood. It's like, come on. I just...

I see that consumers are tolerating that less and less. And I just think that we're going to look back in 10 years or so and people are going to think, what the hell was going on in true crime? Why did people find this acceptable? I mean, you see the same thing happening with YouTube right now. Like, I don't know how much of YouTube you watch or like how much you're up to date with these influencers, but people are going back to these videos.

mega, mega stars and influencers, somebody like Shane Dawson, for example, you know, like millions and millions of followers and has been huge on YouTube for a decade or whatever. People are going back and they're like, wait a second, that content wasn't okay. Like none of that is okay. What are we thinking? And they're, they're getting held accountable now.

And I truly think that in the next decade or so, we're going to see a huge wave of that happen with true crime. People are going to look back and say, why did we tolerate this? And how did we tolerate this? People are actually getting hurt by these actions. And I consumed it. And now I feel bad. I just I think it's going to take a little bit of time. I think it's a little bit slow coming, but I think it will happen for true crime. I mean, there is no other genre in which you can be so sensational about such a devastating

delicate topic. I've, I've dug deep into like serial killer merch, for example, you know, I'm sure you've seen posts about it, right? There's these horrific t-shirts that's like choke me like Bundy and eat me like Dom or whatever, like just really gross stuff. And if you look at any other tragedy, that doesn't happen, right? If you Google true crime t-shirt and

you will find the most horrific stuff. If you Google Boston bombing t-shirt, you don't find that. If you Google Sandy Hook tragedy t-shirt, you don't find that. Why is it in the true crime space, once it enters this realm, that we feel that we can be

Yeah.

These things are really unacceptable. Like, in no world would anybody be able to walk around this earth in a September 11th t-shirt mocking the victims. Yet we do that in true crime, and you're told to chill out, you're told to calm down, you're told it's just a joke. Why is it when we enter this true crime sphere that it's like, anything goes, and we can joke about anything? I just, I don't understand how we've gotten here, and I hope that we get away from it, but...

I think it's truly only something that happens in true crime as opposed to other tragedies, if you will. Yeah, I totally agree. And I think, you know, I never thought of it the way that you described about like walking around in a 9-11 shirt, but that's just unacceptable. I think part of the problem is most of true crime creators are, you

a single person, maybe two people, and they act as the researchers, the interviewers, the producers, the editors, the HR department, like they're, they have complete total control. So there's not a whole lot of guidelines. There's no legal department saying, I don't think that's, I don't think that's ethical. And so when you're sort of in that, you've got that tunnel vision where you're

You're not objective anymore and you're infatuated with the killers instead of the victims. It's a dangerous place to be. And on a smaller scale, I see it in Mara's case where there's an infatuation with the peripheral people.

and people are obsessed with all these people on the periphery who are not part of the story that are not part of the case. Um, and it's this power struggle and it's like, why are you infatuated with these, these people on the side on Twitter and all this stuff? Um, but I mean, you, you raise a great point that that's got to change. Um, and, um,

You know, I think that, you know, we can do our small part and trying to help that make that change. But we're going to need the whole community, the whole true crime community and all the consumers to be like, you know what, let's ditch the Ted Bundy. I love Ted Bundy t-shirts. It's not okay.

Yeah. And we'll get there. I mean, I think that there will always be a sect of people who enjoy that old school true crime, if you will, that more sensational. And I get it. Like, I kind of have to respect where we've come from and how we've grown and how we've developed. And it's hard for me to say I have to respect it, but I do. You know, I get it. I respect it. I try to understand it. But I think you used a really good word there, which is infatuation, which I think is...

What has really happened in Maura's case? It went beyond caring and wanting to solve it and wanting to help with just being infatuated with it, which, you know, to try to not go on any more tangents, which I certainly do enjoy with you. Maybe we'll have to do just like a tangent, you know.

You know, episode sometime. That would be that would be so we'd get in so much trouble. But, um, you know, I want to talk about, yeah, ask you, how can we get the focus back on Maura, the get away from this infatuation and more of just the focus on the facts and wanting to figure out what happened in spreading awareness in a positive way?

Yeah. The first thing we need to do is to realize that it's, we're talking about a real person, not a character. Um, you know, like I said earlier, Mara has become this unrecognizable character. I don't even recognize her. Uh, and that's a shame. And, um, the more that my family can speak up of her as a real person, more empathy we can allow into this space, um,

um, the more people are going to be like, Oh, maybe I shouldn't, you know, slut shame Mara, a 21 year old for, you know, having sex. Like, come on, like, what are we doing here? Um, and I think we're getting there. I think people's eyes are starting to open a bit just in, in Mars little community. Um, but it goes for true crime as a whole. Um,

realizing that there's a real person here, realizing that there's a real family left behind in the wake of a tragedy and treating those people with just basic respect. Because right now, I mean, I don't feel like my family has been respected. We haven't been shown the humility that I think we deserve from many, many of the

so-called authorities in my sister's case. So I hope to change that, but it is going to take some time and, you know, I'm going to do my part in that and we'll see where it goes. Yeah. Well, hopefully this conversation helps. I mean, who knows? We might just be feeding the trolls, but I think it's a risk worth taking. It needs to be talked about. Like, I'm sick of it being in the shadows. I really am. Like, I'm sick of it being like

family members need to shut up and be grateful because we can also we can be grateful while also saying hey I don't like that hey I think that that's not the best thing for the case that like that's okay I don't know why we're not allowed to say those things so again maybe this is just troll fuel but I wanted to just talk to you about it and get it on the record and get your side of things because I feel like you're demonized a lot and I feel like people aren't really listening to you so I hope that

I don't know. Hopefully this makes a small difference. I don't know if it will. Um, but those are kind of my hopes and dreams for this episode. Yeah. Well, I mean, it felt good to talk about it. It feels good to talk about it with somebody that knows what I'm talking about and can empathize and relate to some of the struggles and challenges that I've, I've faced. Um,

So I just thank you for the opportunity to do this. And I hope to collaborate and do something again.

Oh, absolutely. I mean, I will forever be in your inbox, Julie. I feel like we've been talking on Twitter for like years now or whatever. But yeah. So I do want to say for anybody out there listening, maybe a content creator, please don't be afraid to cover Amora's case. I don't think that that's what Julie wants. And again, I'm speaking for you and you're literally right here. But I mean, I would assume at this point that you would encourage other creators to cover her case. Like it's

Don't be afraid of the backlash. Just don't be afraid. Please just think of Maura first is kind of what I would like to impart with everybody. Yeah, I...

I agree. And I encourage people to reach out to me directly. And I can, you know, talk about Mara. I, I know Mara, I grew up with her. We shared a room together. I have some amazing stories and insights and she's not this monster that you read about on these blogs. And she was a wonderful, you know, multidimensional human being.

uh, who had her flaws. And I am always more than willing to talk about that. And then also the actual facts of the case. Uh, and, um, you know, that's, that's what we need more of. And I think that's, um, what's best for Mara and her, her legacy. And, uh, you know, I hope one day to find that missing puzzle piece to where we can solve it, but it's going to take people, uh,

who are not afraid to come forward with information that they might know. This is Jessica Knoll, host of the new series Back in Crime.

If you're a follower of true crime, you're probably familiar with some of the most shocking stories from our history. Horrific tragedies like the Columbine Massacre. And notorious criminals like cult leader Charles Manson.

In a scene described by one investigator as reminiscent of a weird religious rite, five persons, including actress Sharon Tate, were found dead at the home of Miss Tate and her husband, screen director Roman Poliansky. But what if we were to turn back the hands of time and relive these events as they unfolded? Follow along each week as we take a fresh look at crimes from the past. Back in Crime is available now.

In 2020, in a small California mountain town, five women disappeared. I found out what happened to all of them, except one. A woman known as Dia, whose estate is worth millions of dollars. I'm Lucy Sheriff. Over the past four years, I've spoken with Dia's family and friends, and I've discovered that it's not just Dia.

Everyone has a different version of events. Hear the story on Where's Dear? Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Before we close out, is there anything else you wanted to say? Any other tangents you wanted to go on? Anything at all? I mean, I could go on forever. But no, I mean, I think we hit home the major points. And I think it's pretty clear that, you know, there needs to be some sort of ethics in this space. And I'm going to do my part. And I thank you. And yeah, I look forward to chatting again.

Absolutely. All right. Thank you, Julie. Thank you so much for listening to today's episode. I truly hope this conversation helped clear the air a little so we can get the focus back on Maura. Again, I know so many of you care about this case, and I thank you for that. The bottom line is Maura still needs coverage. She still needs help. For more information about Maura's case and how you can help, please visit mauramurraymissing.org.

Maura Murray was last seen on February 9th, 2004, in Haverhill, New Hampshire. She is a white female with brown hair and green eyes. She is approximately 5 foot 7 inches tall and weighed 120 pounds when she went missing. Anyone with information is urged to call the New Hampshire State Police at 603-846-3333. As always, thank you, I love you, and I'll talk to you next time.

Voices for Justice is hosted and produced by me, Sarah Turney. For more information about the podcast, to suggest a case, to see resources used for this episode, and to find out more about how to help the cases I discuss, visit voicesforjusticepodcast.com. And if you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to rate and review the show in your podcast player.

It really does help more people find the podcast and these cases in need of justice.