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This is Jessica Knoll, host of the new series Back in Crime. If you're a follower of true crime, you're probably familiar with some of the most shocking stories from our history. Horrific tragedies like the Columbine Massacre. He turned the gun straight at us and shot. Oh my God, the window went out. And the kid standing there with me, I think he got hit. Okay. Oh God. And notorious criminals like cult leader Charles Manson.
In a scene described by one investigator as reminiscent of a weird religious rite, five persons, including actress Sharon Tate, were found dead at the home of Miss Tate and her husband, screen director Roman Poliansky. But what if we were to turn back the hands of time and relive these events as they unfolded? Follow along each week as we take a fresh look at crimes from the past. Back in Crime is available now.
Voices for Justice is a podcast that uses adult language and discusses sensitive and potentially triggering topics, including violence, abuse, and murder. This podcast may not be appropriate for younger audiences. All parties are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Some names have been changed or omitted per their request or for safety purposes. Listener discretion is advised. My name is Sarah Turney, and this is Voices for Justice.
I have to say, it feels so good to be back because I have definitely missed you guys. But if you're new here and wondering who I am, why I'm back, or what's going on, let me fill you in. The first season, if you will, of Voices for Justice was about my missing sister, Alyssa Turney, and my journey to get justice for her. My missing person's case is...
17-year-old Alyssa Marie Turney. Alyssa Turney. Alyssa Turney. Alyssa Turney. On this episode, we're going to tackle a mystery out of Phoenix, Arizona with a lot of disturbing twists and turns. 17-year-old Alyssa Turney vanished. Alyssa Turney. Alyssa Turney. Alyssa Marie Turney. Disappearance of Alyssa Turney. And today's a really exciting episode because we are talking about the case of Alyssa Turney. Okay, so today we are doing
Alyssa Turney. Alyssa Turney. Alyssa Turney. Alyssa Marie Turney was a 17-year-old from Phoenix, Arizona. And someone reached out to me there and said, would you please cover the story of my missing sister? And ever since, I have essentially...
been in contact, I think, daily with Sarah. Her name is Sarah Turney and her sister is Alyssa. But do the clues to Alyssa's disappearance point much closer to home? Michael watching his own children through a video camera. Alyssa had told him very graphic things, very disturbing things. Secret home movies, a warehouse packed with evidence, and a cold case that turns hot. Again, there's only two people that can confirm whether I did it or not. There's me and there's Alyssa.
My name is Sarah Turney, and you might have heard of my sister Alyssa's story before. But I promise that you've never heard it like this. On Voices for Justice, I'm going to dive deep into Alyssa's case like never before. I'm going to interview people you've never heard from, and I'm going to expose more about the police, my family, and myself than ever before.
I'm asking you to acknowledge that he wasn't briefed on the case, which you're not going to do. And I understand, but he wasn't, he said that he was aware that there were no sexual allegations, which is completely crazy to me because there's over 25 people in your documents that allege this. So when he says that, I don't know what he's talking about.
I've held back a lot for a long time, and I'm ready to release it on my own terms. The police told me that my best chance is media exposure, and I've been working for years to amplify my voice through others. But now, I'm ready to make some noise. Subscribe to Voices for Justice today on iTunes and most podcast players. Alec, Alyssa said something, you know, he tried something, and he's specific. Alyssa had told him very graphic things, very disturbing things. So that means...
But after a year of putting out episodes about my sister, an arrest was made in her case in August of 2020. Today, I am announcing the grand jury indictment for secondary murder of Michael Roy Turney.
Alyssa's stepfather. With this announcement, I must say that a charge of a crime is merely an accusation. The defendant is presumed innocent until proven guilty. With Alyssa's trial currently pending, all episodes about her are paused until after the trial. But rest assured that I have been documenting and recording everything I can, and I will finish telling her story as soon as I feel it is appropriate to.
And let me tell you, things are already just as insane as the rest of her case. I also want to take this moment to again thank each and every one of you for listening to her story. I could have never imagined that so many people would care for Alyssa so much. And I will never stop thanking or appreciating you for that. But I knew I couldn't just stop at my sister's case.
During the year or so that it took me to make my episodes about Alyssa, I got hundreds of messages from you guys asking me to cover other cases. And honestly, there was no way I could go through what I have with the police, the media, and the legal system in general without trying to help other victims get justice. So after the arrest, I took a few months off to process all of the insanity that is coming with that.
But in that time, I was also talking to families, researching cases, and thinking very hard about what I wanted this podcast to be going forward. And after so much time to reflect, my concept is actually pretty simple. I want to help victims in need of justice get justice. That's it. Whether they went missing, were murdered, or wrongfully convicted, I want to be a voice that helps them get the justice they deserve.
So, that's why I'm back and you're tolerating my voice in your ears once again. But, things are going to be a little different this time around, so let's talk about that. First, instead of bi-weekly episodes, I will be bugging you about new cases every single Thursday.
Next, you will not be getting as many episodes per case as you did with Alyssa's story, which, as you might remember, was about 30 episodes long. So expect most cases to be covered in a single episode.
But spoiler, that doesn't actually apply to this episode, but I think you'll understand why this one is a bit longer once we get into it. And last, but certainly not least, every single case will have a call to action where I ask you, the listener, to take an active part in helping to get justice for the victim we discuss.
But with that being said, for those of you who do love that long format style of podcasting, which I don't blame you because I love it too and Serial is literally life, you will definitely see another long format podcast from me covering another case outside of Voices for Justice in the future. There's no set date on that because I am just trying to get through this trial without literally dying of stress, but please know that I do indeed want to do all of the things and will eventually do them.
But for now, you will get weekly episodes of Voices for Justice featuring cases in need of justice. And I will be bugging you to help them just like I bugged you to help Alyssa. So get ready because we have a lot of work to do. Which brings me to this week's case.
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Today, I am discussing the case of Angela Green, who went missing from Prairie Village, Kansas on or about June 20th, 2019. Angela's case was brought to my attention by the amazing John Lorden, who actually created the first ever YouTube video about Alyssa way back in 2015. But he tagged me on Twitter saying I had to see this case and get in touch with Angela's daughter Ellie, who is fighting so hard to get justice for her mother.
And luckily, my friend Charlie at the Crimelines podcast interviewed Ellie in August of 2020 and was kind enough to connect us. And I have been in contact with Ellie ever since. Here she is giving a brief overview of her mother's case. My name is Ellie Green and I'm now 20. I've lived in Kansas, here in Kansas City, my whole life. Last summer, my mom disappeared and
The last time I saw her, we were not on very good terms. And then my father told me he had her taken to a mental institution where she later died of a stroke. A few months later, I reached out to her family and never found a death certificate. And that's when he completely changed his story, saying that she went out with friends and then
Changed it to she ran away with one friend and was never coming back. And then, I mean, now maintains that she's alive. So in between like being a junior at KU and studying finance and analytics, I do a lot of interviews. I'm just trying to get the word out there. And hopefully somebody somewhere has seen something, like even if they don't realize it.
Um, yeah. As you can probably already tell from her overview of the case, there is a lot to unpack here. So let's start at the beginning and work our way to today. And please forgive me if my pronunciations aren't perfect. I just want to honor Angela's background the best I can. Angela Green was born Xin He in Tianjin in northern China in 1968 to two college professors.
By the 1990s, Angela was in her 20s and was an aspiring news reporter. And this is right around the time that she would meet her future husband, Jeff Green, a mechanic and salesman who was in China for business and was apparently very flirty and very tall. He was also 13 years older than Angela, a fact he would hide from her until they were in a relationship.
There was a bit of a language barrier with Angela's native language being Mandarin, but she did know quite a bit of English at this time. So they have their first date at the Hard Rock Cafe in Beijing and they hit it off right away. After Jeff returns home, he and Angela keep in contact by writing each other letters. And less than a year later, in 1998, Angela uproots her entire life and moves from China to the U.S. and marries Jeff.
And this marriage comes as quite the surprise to Jeff's teenage daughter, who, according to Jeff's ex-wife, had no idea he was dating anyone until Angela arrived in the United States. But they do get married and move into a ranch-style house in Prairie Village, Kansas.
Now, Prairie Village is a pretty small town with a reported population of just over 23,000 people in 1998. And the population hasn't really grown since then. In fact, in 2018, it actually had 1,000 less residents than in 1998. But by all accounts, it seems like a very nice, tight-knit community.
In fact, some of Angela's only friends would be her neighbors, who she loved giving away items from her garden to, and luckily, when Angela made the move to Kansas, her sister Catherine lived in the same state for a few years before moving away. All of this to say, it doesn't seem like Angela had a terrible transition to the United States by any means.
And two years later, Jeff and Angela have their first and only child, Ellie, in the year 2000. It was decided that Jeff would keep his 9-to-5 job at the federal courthouse in Kansas City, Missouri, about 20 minutes from their home, and Angela would stay home with Ellie. By all accounts, Ellie was both of her parents' pride and joy. But with Angela being home every day with her, they of course became extremely close.
According to Ellie, Angela was that mom, the mom that would take a thousand pictures, have multiple Christmas outfits for Ellie as a baby, and just really loved being a mom. Like I mentioned, Angela also loved working in her garden, talking to her neighbors, and volunteering in her community, but Ellie was essentially her entire life. Ellie also states that her father Jeff was also very loving when she was growing up, so it really seemed like they were that image of the perfect family.
Rebecca Legill, whose daughter was friends with Ellie in elementary school, told the Huffington Post about Angela, stating, quote, She was tall and beautiful and soft-spoken, and honestly a little intimidating. I'm a normal Midwest mom, sweatpants and bedhead hoping to get the kids to school on time. And Angela was always put together. She made life look effortless. End quote.
It's important to note that Angela was pretty dependent on Jeff and Ellie, because there was still that bit of a language barrier. And although she seemed to know more than enough English to communicate, she was still self-conscious about it, and would typically ask Ellie or Jeff to come with her on any errands. She also didn't like to drive. This caused her to rarely, if ever, leave the house by herself. And this also caused Ellie to become kind of this mediator for her parents' conversations.
But, at some point in the marriage, Jeff and Angela's relationship would be described as more of a business relationship than a romantic one by Ellie, with the couple showing little physical affection to each other and sleeping in separate bedrooms.
Of course, I don't think anyone but the two people involved in a relationship or family dynamic can say for sure what that dynamic looks like privately, but other than being self-conscious about the language barrier, it appears that Angela ran the household for the most part.
Ellie describes her mother as loving, but pretty strict. Ellie wasn't allowed to date or go to sleepovers, and didn't have a cell phone until her senior year in high school. Her days usually consisted of piano lessons and Angela pushing her to do her best, especially in school. But in 2018, Ellie graduates valedictorian from her high school, knowing three languages, and was offered scholarships and a study abroad program in Italy through the University of Kansas.
and although angela was pretty tough on her ellie understood that her mom just wanted the best for her and in turn ellie tried to be the best daughter she could be and make both of her parents proud
As Ellie began to spread her wings to go to college and specifically the study abroad program in Italy, it took a toll on Angela. For the first time in almost two decades, she didn't have Ellie to take care of every day. And at this point, according to Ellie, Angela starts exhibiting signs of depression and starts hoarding items in the house. For this episode, I consulted with Dr. Scott from the LA Not So Confidential podcast.
Dr. Scott is a clinical psychologist who specializes in a few different areas, including crisis intervention training, family therapy, and anxiety disorders. Now, it's important to keep in mind that without actually treating someone directly, he can't give an official diagnosis, nor would I ever think that to be appropriate in a podcast setting.
But I wanted to pick his brain on some things. And while we were discussing his professional opinion on a completely different aspect of the case that we will get into in a bit, I told him more about what I'd learned about Angela's behavior after Ellie left home for college. And it sparked some interesting conversation. Hoarding can be the result of several different mental health diagnoses.
Um, what we do find is a lot of times that, you know, what we, we have a term called comorbid when you have more than one thing going on, you know, you can have anxiety and depression at the same time. You can have bipolar disorder and be stable on your medications, but also have ongoing depression that the medications are not addressing. So it's possible to have a couple of things going on at the same time. When it comes to hoarding, we found that,
It is generally, in most cases, a combination of depression and OCD, which is obsessive compulsive disorder. And that might be a result of some past trauma. It could be a result of something that just developed over time where that hoarding has become sort of this thing
crossing of wires in the individual's brain where they are unable to let go of anything like the physical, like they can be picking up pieces of garbage or clothing off the street or overbuying at Costco and just buying and buying and buying because there's this cross in the brain that attaches security to keeping all of these objects around them. And for anybody who's ever watched an episode of Hoarders, you can tell that it just really goes on
It goes really off the rails very quickly where people are not able to throw away, you know, medication that their grandmother had 30 years ago and things just really start to pile up. And unfortunately with hoarding and depression, it's a really vicious cycle. One feeds the other. So you just get stuck in this cycle where, you know, you're surrounded by these things and you just, you can't let go of it or you can't stay motivated to, to,
to follow through. One of the really interesting hoarding episodes was about a college professor, a really respected college professor that was very functional. She would get up and, you know, she would bathe herself in this completely non-functional bathroom and pull herself together and put on her clothes and go and teach. And she was well-respected and nobody knew that she was living in really dangerous conditions. And,
So I don't want to necessarily like you said, it's not really appropriate to kind of make a supposed diagnosis of this person, but generally severe depression and hoarding come hand in hand.
And that makes sense. You know, to be honest, just drawing off of my own experience, when my father first went to prison in 2008, I kept everything. I didn't want to throw away anything, including, you know, like you mentioned, medications and things I knew I would never use because that was attached to a person I love. So, you know, exactly. That's what we're that's what I'm talking. That's a great example, Sarah. Yeah. Well, and it makes me think, you know,
Could hoarding have been a response to empty nest syndrome? Because, you know, in this specific case, Angela spent so much time doubting on her daughter, Ellie. You know, of course, Angela was a stay at home mom. Ellie was her whole entire world. And, you know, Ellie graduated valedictorian and she was just.
you know, so focused on. It was all about her academics and making sure she could be the best kid she could be, which, you know, I think is great. So, of course, that, you know, that's what I'm thinking is Ellie goes off to college. It's the first time in, you know, maybe 18 years that Angela has been without her daughter. So perhaps hoarding was some type of response to losing Ellie in that type of way, especially Ellie was actually studying abroad in Italy. So she was really far away.
I think that's certainly a really important factor that should be explored in a situation like this. There are also cultural considerations, you know, being from a different culture, feeling, you know, like you said, there was a bit of a language barrier, feeling isolated. You know, all of those things contribute to emotional instability.
Again, although neither I or Dr. Scott would ever even try to give Angela any type of diagnosis, it appears that the depression and hoarding might have been linked to Ellie leaving for college. I mean, her entire life changed the moment that Ellie left the house, and I imagine that would take a lot of time to get used to. And all of these changes in Angela's life and her relationship with her daughter leads us into the last day that Ellie saw Angela.
June 20th, 2019. And unfortunately, it wasn't a great interaction, and Angela and Ellie actually end up getting in a fight over this new mother-daughter dynamic that they found themselves in. I'm going to be honest with you guys and kind of set the stage for how I interview people for this podcast. When I interviewed Ellie, I didn't ask her about this fight with her mom. I didn't ask her about this fight with her mom.
I know she has to relive that day, probably one of the worst days of her entire life, over and over again as she does these interviews. And since I did my research and found a ton of statements of her describing this day, I really didn't think it was necessary to put her through that again.
So, it really does seem like a typical mother-daughter fight over Ellie's newfound independence and Angela wanting her to be more productive. This fight ends in Angela grabbing some of Ellie's things and telling her to leave the house. And although Angela had never asked Ellie to leave the house before, she didn't consider the fight to be anything that wouldn't blow over quickly.
So she just goes to stay with her boyfriend Zach's family for a few days to give Angela some time to calm down and to wait for her to apologize. And this is where things start to get very complicated. So stay with me here.
Three days after this argument, on June 23, 2019, Ellie gets a text from her father Jeff stating that Angela's mental state has gotten worse and that he coordinated with a psychiatric hospital to have a few employees meet him and Angela in a grocery store parking lot, where these employees ambush Angela, take her by force into their vehicle, and admit her to the psychiatric hospital.
When Ellie texts her father back asking how Angela was taken away, Jeff responds, quote, We met the mental health people in the store parking lot and it was a struggle. Better than trying to pry her out of the house. And she always looks good going out. So she did not have the embarrassment of house clothes or an untidy house. End quote.
And after this, he follows up with another text asking Ellie not to tell Angela's family about her being admitted to the hospital until he knew more about her condition.
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And this is why I reached out to Dr. Scott. I wanted to know if this type of thing actually happens and to learn more about the process of admitting someone to a psychiatric hospital, because I am by no means an expert. And this is what he had to say. So what you're describing to me in terms of what this individual has proposed as how to
Angela was hospitalized is not in any way, shape or form done in any state in the U S. You don't have people coming from a psychiatric facility and, you know, scooping somebody up in a Kmart parking lot and throwing them in a van. I mean, there's a process and your, your rights, you know, you have rights, even if you're a danger to yourself or a danger to others. And now those rights may vary from state to state as far as how
an evaluation team might understand your functioning at the time, but it's a very, very,
thought out legal process where, um, like in California, the way we do it, we have a 72 hour hold, which is one of the minimum lengths of times it's called a 51 50. Each state has a different sort of, um, nickname for it. But in California, we call it a 51 50 because it's the welfare and institutions code of the state of California for a psychiatric hold.
to protect someone when they are a danger to themselves, a danger to others, or they meet criteria for grave disability. And there's a lot of area in that, in that big circle to put people on a hold. And there's a lot of nuance and that's why you need to have a clinician on site to do the evaluation. And our, our police officers here in Southern California are able to write 5150 holds as well. But again,
Every time when that happens, an individual will then be transported to a psychiatric facility or a psych ER at a hospital. And then the attending physician there will reevaluate the person. So the attending physician there will go, yeah, I don't know what you're talking about. There's nothing wrong with this person. They were just agitated and got into an argument with their husband, wife, brother, mom, dad, whatever. We're going to hold them for about 12 hours and,
Just for some monitoring and then we're going to let him go. Or it could be like, wow, this person is really in bad shape. We're going to hold them for a minimum of 72 hours, see if we can get them stabilized. And if we can't, then we'll extend the hold. So the idea that someone would just arrange things.
for this meeting to happen in another location is just it's not within the realm of possibility. And also the idea that you go through the planning of I don't want her to be embarrassed. That's just an excuse like you either you know, this is a crisis, right? It's an emergency. You're trying to protect someone because they're not able to care for themselves or or they're a danger to themselves. So they're going to come to the home, which as messy as it supposedly is,
is going to be a somewhat contained environment. And here in California, there are some law enforcement agencies or co-responder models that will pick the individual up, transport them to the police station in a contained environment where they can then be evaluated by a social worker, a psychologist, a psychiatric nurse, an MFT. But yeah, there's no loading people up in a van. It's almost like what you're describing as this movie scenario where
big burly guys in, you know, white coats picked her up and tossed her in a van. That just doesn't happen. But of course, after hearing this news, Ellie is shocked.
She knew that her mother was having a hard time, but she never thought that she would need any type of inpatient care like that. But, being the dutiful daughter she was raised to be, she respects her father's decision and choice not to tell her mother's family. But Ellie is really smart, and of course, like any child would, Ellie had a lot of questions about what was going on. And one of the first things that she asks her father is if she can go visit her mom in the hospital, to which her father says no.
He doesn't want Ellie to see her mom like that, and wants her to wait until she's better before visiting her. Again, Ellie thinks this is pretty reasonable and doesn't question this request. But she also keeps asking more questions, like where is this hospital?
What is mom's official diagnosis and when will she be coming home? And her father Jeff doesn't really seem to have an answer for any of these questions and just tells her that the hospital is down south and that her mom will come home as soon as she gets better.
So Ellie really just assumes that he is trying to protect her during this extremely distressing family situation. But after Jeff asks Ellie to come to the house and sort through her mother's things and sends her a text stating, quote, I would like to talk about the good things mom did, end quote.
Ellie is left feeling uneasy about the entire situation. Even Ellie's boyfriend's mom tries to step in and reach out to Jeff and ask if she can go visit Angela, but apparently Jeff just brushes her off.
Three weeks go by, and Jeff asks to meet with Ellie. At this time, Ellie is still living with her boyfriend's family. So on July 16th, 2019, Ellie and her father decide to meet at her boyfriend's family's house around 10.45pm. The reason it was so late is because Ellie was actually out with her boyfriend and some friends at a frisbee tournament that day. So Jeff and her pull up at the house at about the same time, and they end up just talking in the driveway because Jeff says it's urgent.
And this is when he tells her that Angela is dead. Not mom is dead, but Angela is dead, stating that she died of a stroke in the psychiatric hospital. Again, this was something I refused to ask Ellie to relive just for the purposes of this podcast. But Ellie told the Kansas City Star, quote, He pulls up to Zach's house. He says Angela died of a stroke. I remember the world going blurry.
End quote.
The next day, Zach's parents invite Jeff over for lunch to just kind of check in on him after the death of his wife. This lunch is of course pretty awkward, but Zach's parents really try to get some answers out of Jeff, who apparently just keeps looking at the floor or off into the distance. But Zach's parents don't really know Jeff, so they just assume that he's a little socially awkward and is suffering because he literally just lost his wife.
Ultimately, Jeff still doesn't tell them which hospital Angela died in, and he states that he does not want to have a memorial service for her and that he will eventually tell Angela's family about her death, but he asks Ellie to hold off on notifying them for now.
And again, at this point, Ellie has no reason not to believe or trust her father. So she respects his wishes. But she continues to ask these questions about her mother's death over text and in person when they meet for a meal a few times a month.
But Ellie says that every time she would bring it up, Jeff would just shut down. So assuming that her father is just grieving the loss of his wife of about 20 years and being afraid of pushing him away, she doesn't push him very hard. And in the back of her mind, she was confident that she would get the answers of what happened to her mom in time.
But months go by. So after asking questions again and again and not really getting any answers, Ellie decides it's time to notify her mother's family about Angela's death and to confide in them about what has been going on.
So on February 13th, 2020, Ellie calls Angela's sister Catherine in Long Island. It had been eight months since she heard from Ellie, so she was really excited to get this call. Catherine actually tried to get in touch with Angela about a wedding in the family during those eight months and never heard back from her, but she said this wasn't super unusual because they weren't that close, so she didn't think much of it.
But this excitement to hear from Ellie quickly turns to worry and confusion as Ellie immediately burst into tears. Catherine could barely make out what Ellie was saying, other than Angela died on the 16th. But this confused Catherine, and she asked Ellie how her mother could have died on the 16th if today was the 13th. And this is when Ellie tells her that her mom died on July 16th, the year prior,
After getting more information from Ellie about the hospital and the stroke, Catherine calls her daughters to tell them about their aunt's passing. But one daughter is a doctor and the other is a lawyer, and both of them are immediately suspicious of Jeff's story. And ultimately, Ellie teams up with Catherine's daughter Michelle, the lawyer, to try to find out what really happened to her mom.
The first thing that Ellie was advised to do was get Angela's death certificate. If Angela died in the state of Kansas, then a copy would be kept at the Office of Vital Statistics in Topeka. So Ellie takes the day off from school and makes the drive. Ellie puts in the request for her mother's death certificate, and her heart sinks when she is informed that no death certificate exists.
Ellie wastes no time. The next day, she meets up with her father to confront him. She again asks him where her mother died, and Jeff says Kansas. And right to his face, Ellie says there's no way her mother died in Kansas because there is no record of it. And Jeff responds that he's going to have to look into it.
But enough was enough, and Angela's family calls the Prairie Village police to explain the situation and asks them to do a welfare check on Angela. And when the police arrive at Jeff's home, he tells them Angela isn't dead, but she actually ran away with some friends. This episode of Voices for Justice is sponsored by Ibotta. Are you planning your dream vacation but dreading the cost?
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Just go to the App Store or Google Play Store and download the free Ibotta app to start earning cash back and use code CRIME. That's I-B-O-T-T-A in the Google Play Store or App Store. And use code CRIME. At this point, Ellie and her family are super confused and immediately want to file a missing persons report. But because they just did the welfare check, the Prairie Village Police won't take the report until three days later.
Sure enough, three days later, Ellie is down at that station filling out the report and begins talking to detectives when she, by chance, gets a phone call from her dad.
So, she puts it on speakerphone, and this is when we hear the story. During this phone call, Jeff admits that Angela was not taken to the hospital by force, but that she actually disappeared. And after she went missing, he got a call from someone stating that Angela was admitted to a psychiatric hospital. And then a few weeks after that, he got the call that Angela died from a stroke.
But he was really busy at work, so he didn't take note of which hospital she died at or get many other details. Jeff goes on to tell her, and these detectives, that a cremation was arranged by phone and he paid in cash when the ashes were delivered to his home. But later, he looked in the urn and realized that it was completely empty.
So the Prairie Village Police Department makes a visit to Jeff's home to talk to him about all of this, and Jeff hands them a business card for a criminal defense attorney and refuses to speak with them.
But Ellie and Michelle are not ready to let this go, so they take things to the next level and begin prepping Ellie to ask her father questions. Basically, they make up a list of questions, and Michelle creates kind of a flowchart for Ellie, prompting her to ask him this question if he says this and a different question if he says that. And since Kansas is a one-party consent state, meaning it is legal to record any conversation as long as one party is aware…
Absolutely. And I know that a part of your efforts, you know, for getting justice for your mother is recording the video.
recording conversations with your father, which you were gracious enough to share with me. And I did listen to all of those. And I have to tell you, they were really hard for me to listen to personally. I was definitely crying through most of those. Oh, gosh. Well, I was crying a lot too. So if you think that I sound muffled, it's probably because I am really emotional because it takes a lot of effort emotionally and mentally to...
Try and get answers out of somebody who like you're trying to respect because he's my dad. But at the same time, you're so angry with it's a really, really hard dynamic. Well, I mean, for what it's worth, I think you did an amazing job. You were so level headed, especially during I think it was like the first three calls. You were you were amazing for whatever that's worth. Thank you. Tried to keep level headed for sure. It was difficult.
Yeah, I mean, I think it's really smart, you know, because like you said, if you kind of just blow up at him, you might get some explosive response from him or possibly just a hang up or whatever. So I get that balance of, yeah, trying to be fair and logical and trying to kind of, I mean, almost like interrogate him like like an officer. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the police have like they can ask him questions, but he doesn't have to answer them.
And he also has a criminal defense lawyer, so he kind of refuses to do anything without that lawyer. So I know that he probably has an emotional attachment to me. And since the police can't tell me what to say or do, then I have to do it on my own. Yeah, absolutely. Well, and what did that process look like for you? How did you decide that you wanted to record him?
Well, I just wanted to get the story straight, which is funny because we still don't have a straight story. But I wanted to make sure, like, because in the beginning he would tell me things and then they would turn out to be a lie later. So he'd kind of like lead me on or tell me something that wasn't true. So like this time around, basically, I wanted to make sure that I knew what was happening and
And because it was basically his word against his own word. And so in that way, I could I could look back and see if like I could go back and question him on what he said in a phone call before and see if his story still matched up straight, which a lot of the times they didn't.
So, um, I also wrote like a lot of notes for it. Um, like I, I practiced, like if he, if he says that he's, he didn't do this, or if he said that he is not a coward, then I wrote, I had like a whole paragraph of what I would say as a rebuttal basically. And, um,
And you will hear exactly what Jeff has to say in the next part of this episode. Because everything that happens after this kind of takes on a life of its own. And it's going to take some time to discuss. But I won't leave you hanging entirely.
Here is a sneak peek of what is to come next time on Voices for Justice. I don't know whether she's dead or alive or ran away, was killed. I don't know, but I'm trying to figure it out. What about the story you told me about like taking her from a parking lot? Did you hurt mom?
Voices for Justice is hosted, produced, and edited by me, Sarah Turney. For more information about the podcast or to submit a case you'd like me to cover, visit VoicesForJusticePodcast.com. And for even more content, you can join the Patreon family for just $5 a month at Patreon.com slash VoicesForJustice.
