Abby Williams and Libby German Part 1
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This is Jessica Knoll, host of the new series Back in Crime. If you're a follower of true crime, you're probably familiar with some of the most shocking stories from our history. Horrific tragedies like the Columbine Massacre. He turned the gun straight at us and shot. Oh my God, the window went out. And the kid standing there with me, I think he got hit. Okay. Oh God. And notorious criminals like cult leader Charles Manson.

In a scene described by one investigator as reminiscent of a weird religious rite, five persons, including actress Sharon Tate, were found dead at the home of Miss Tate and her husband, screen director Roman Poliansky. But what if we were to turn back the hands of time and relive these events as they unfolded? Follow along each week as we take a fresh look at crimes from the past. Back in Crime is available now.

My name is Sarah Turney, and this is Voices for Justice.

Today, I'm discussing the murders of Libby German and Abby Williams, also known as the Delphi murders. Monday, February 13th, 2017 was an unusually warm day for Delphi, Indiana.

14-year-old Libby and her 13-year-old best friend Abby wanted to take advantage of the nice weather while it lasted. So they asked Libby's older sister Kelsey to drive them to the Delphi Historic Trail so they could go hiking. In the small town of Delphi, there really isn't much else to do. Kelsey dropped the girls off around 1 p.m. The plan was for Abby and Libby to meet back at the trailhead at 3, so Libby's dad, Derek German, could pick them up.

When he showed up at the trailhead, the girls were not there to meet him.

He called Libby's phone, but she didn't answer, so he started searching the immediate area. There was no sign of Libby or Abby anywhere. Police were notified that the girls were missing. Officers, family members, and volunteers scoured the trails for Abby and Libby, but they were nowhere to be found. The search was called off around midnight. In the morning, the search started up again. Within just a few hours, the bodies of Abby and Libby were found. They'd been murdered.

It's been over five years since that day, and the case remains unsolved. This is the case of Abby Williams and Libby German.

Liberty Roselyn Libby German was born on December 27, 2002 in Lafayette, Indiana. While her parents did play a role in her life, Libby and her older sister Kelsey were raised by their grandparents, Mike and Becky, in Delphi, Indiana. This is a close-knit community of about 3,000 residents. Libby and Kelsey shared a very close bond. They were best friends. Here's Kelsey to speak about her favorite memory with Libby.

I think I was six at the time, maybe a little younger. We were still living with my parents or our parents. And we had one of those Barbie Jeeps. And this little Barbie Jeep was just so small that like, but we were just small enough that we could both fit in there. And

We would drive it around the backyard all the time. And I always told Libby that since I would be able to drive a car first, that I always had to be the driver and she had to be the passenger. So we would drive around our backyard, going around the trees and around the house a little bit, just as far as my dad would let us get.

And we would just keep going until we got bored of it and we would go do something else. And on this particular day, it was bright and sunny and we had spent most of the day going in circles around this tree. And probably on like the third lap around the tree, I stopped and there, like right in front of us, was a snake. And instead of getting out and running to the house, I kept going, almost hit the tree, finally stopped.

And instead of being scared, Libby got out and picked up the snake. And she...

flung it towards me and said, look, it's not scary. It's not scary at all. Like you can hold it. It's just a snake. It's okay. And I was just like, Libby, get rid of it. Like, we don't, we don't need to touch that. Like just throw it back on the ground. And, um, she didn't, she really wanted me to hold it. So she flung it at me, um, right into my face. It landed in the Barbie Jeep and I ran out screaming to my dad. Um, and I think that,

very much describes Libby because she was just that kind of person. She was never scared of anything. She had no fear. She would do absolutely anything and wanted you to do the same thing. She just wanted you to go out and have fun. And she thought that snake absolutely would have been the most fun we had that day. We could have played with the snake for hours if it were up to Libby, but I would not. That was definitely a no for me.

Libby had the ability to make everyone smile. She was known to leave sticky notes with messages of love and encouragement. Her grandmother Becky recalled getting into her car one day and finding a note on her sun visor that read, I love you. Thank you for all you do for me and Kelsey.

Libby was always thinking of others. Her grandfather Mike told RTV6 a story that highlighted Libby's generosity. Quote, She called me one day. I'd given her some money for an item at school or a function, probably a $10 bill. She called me up and said, Grandpa, with the change, can I give it to somebody else? There's somebody who needs something. So that's the way she worked. It's the way she operated. End quote.

Libby enjoyed baking cookies to share with her family. Becky told RTV6, "...she could throw together a batch of cookies like nobody. She'd come in and have it done in half an hour or so. Cookies laid out for everyone to eat for the rest of the night." And if a family member wasn't there to help devour the cookies, she'd make sure to save them a few.

You could almost always find Libby outside, swimming, going on walks, or playing softball, a sport she was very good at. She loved practicing in the backyard with her grandpa Mike. He said Libby was a good hitter. Very seldom would she strike out. Mike said Libby was always going, always doing something. Her favorite things to do included going on adventures with Kelsey, spending time with family, and hanging out with friends.

Like a lot of teenagers, Libby had a best friend she loved doing everything with. Abigail Joyce Abby Williams was born on June 23, 2003, in Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan.

Abby also loved spending time outdoors. Camping, swimming, writing on ATVs. She was also a huge animal lover. Her favorite being her cat, Bongo. When she wasn't outdoors, Abby loved reading, photography, and crafting. Abby's mother, Anna, told RTV6, "...she had more crafts than you know what to do with. She loved to make things for other people. She loved to be around other people." End quote.

Prior to her death, Abby was knitting tiny, colorful hats for newborns at the local hospital. Kelsey told me that what she remembers about Abby is her always being extremely kind, but hidden behind Libby's door. They're always in Libby's room doing something, usually laughing a lot.

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In the fall of 2016, Libby and Abby started their 8th grade year at Delphi Community Middle School. The girls played saxophone and band together, and were both on the volleyball team. In January 2017, Libby asked Abby to join her softball team. After agreeing, Abby called her grandpa to tell him the great news. He promptly drove down from Michigan to take Abby shopping for equipment. He bought her some softballs and a matching bat and glove. One

Once Abby had everything she needed, she and Libby started practicing together. Anna said they were, quote, set on taking over the world by softball, end quote. On February 12th, Abby went over to Libby's for a sleepover. It was a Sunday, but they didn't have school the next day. They spent the night making arts and crafts and painting nature scenes on canvases. They also practiced softball in the backyard.

The next day, February 13th, was unusually warm for Indiana. It was like spring arrived early. Everyone was outside, wearing t-shirts, soaking up the sun while it lasted. So Libby and Abby decided they wanted to get outside too. They wanted to go explore nature, something they loved to do. They asked Kelsey to drop them off at the Delphi Historic Trail.

Kelsey and her grandmother Becky have said there isn't a lot to do in the small town of Delphi, so it's not unusual for locals to hang out on the trail. The trail leads to Monon High Bridge, an abandoned rail bridge that runs over Deer Creek. It's just one of those areas kids always hung around. At around 1pm, Kelsey dropped off Abby and Libby at the trailhead. The girls said they'd be back at the same location in two hours, so Kelsey and Libby's dad Derek could pick them up.

Here's Kelsey to tell us what she remembers about giving the girls a ride that day. We were having a snow makeup day, which is just a built-in day that we have off if there wasn't enough snow during the school year. So since school didn't have to be canceled, we just got the day off to spend at home.

And so we were doing that. I actually had scheduled to work a little bit extra that day. So I planned on sleeping in and then getting up and going to hang out at my boyfriend at the time's house.

And so I did sleep in. I woke up pretty late for me that day and I was in the bathroom getting ready. Libby and Abby had been around the house. I'm pretty sure they stayed up all night laughing. I remember it was like midnight the night before and they were still up and I was about to pass out. And they had been outside working on Libby's desk. They were painting it and trying to make it this new room.

musical musically thing they wanted it to look like black with like music notes on it so they were working on that and I was upstairs in the bathroom getting ready when Libby bursts in she opens the door we were so close we didn't we didn't know privacy that wasn't a thing for us um so she burst in and she says hey do you want to go to high bridge today like let's go there and hang out

And that was normal for us. We would go there and hang out pretty often. We would just go there to take pictures or go geocaching, whatever it may be. It was just such a beautiful area. And unfortunately, that day I had to say that I couldn't because I already had I had plans. But I had gotten very used to telling her no. So a little while later, she asked me again if I would

What happened next is a mystery.

But we know that at 2:07, Libby posted a photo on Snapchat showing Abby walking across the bridge. When Derek showed up around 3 to get the girls, they were not at the trailhead. He called Libby's phone, but there was no answer. So he started looking around the immediate area. Soon, members of both families showed up to help look. Libby's grandmother Becky later told Dr. Phil that at first, they thought maybe the girls had been hurt, or Libby lost her phone.

When the girls weren't located by 5.30, the Carroll County Sheriff's Office was notified. Officers and volunteers joined family members in the search. Meanwhile, investigators did try to ping Libby's cell phone, but they weren't able to get a hit.

The search lasted until about midnight. At that point, Sheriff Toby Lesenby felt there was no reason to believe the girls were in immediate danger, so he called off the search until daylight. Family members did stay behind to continue looking for the girls. In the morning, the search resumed with officers, volunteers, canine units, and dive teams all looking for Abby and Libby.

Here's Kelsey to explain the search efforts on day two. So the next day, that was when the organized searches started. The night before, it was kind of chaotic. People came from everywhere. We didn't really have a meeting place to start in. So everybody just went to the bridge and started looking.

That day we all met at City Hall. I just remember it being really early in the morning and really cold. I don't remember what time it really started, but I remember the chief of the fire department, who was actually my uncle at the time, he separated us all into different groups and got us into these different areas around Delphi. There were some in town, there were some outside.

all over the woods around Highbridge and the fields surrounding the countryside close to Highbridge. Actually, I think they were quite far. There are actually a lot in Delphi too, but they were just everywhere. I believe they called it a grid search. So they kind of just gridded us off. And then once we got to our locations, we actually separated into smaller groups in those locations.

kind of looking in different areas around there. And that morning, I was put into the group with my dad and one of my other sisters to go to High Bridge. My group was actually set to cross High Bridge, but only half of our group wanted to cross it. So some of our group went into the woods surrounding on the opposite side, but me and a few other people ended up

crossing the bridge and searching in the area towards the end of High Bridge on the opposite side near where there's a private driveway. We searched underneath High Bridge for probably an hour or so before we decided that we weren't finding anything. So we were about to turn back and go back up High Bridge to go back to the other side where everyone else was.

And that is about the time when the girls were found. At around 2.15 p.m., Abby and Libby's bodies were found lying side by side at the bottom of a hill, around 500 feet from the north bank of Deer Creek. They were on private property in a wooded area approximately one half mile upstream from the bridge. It was clear there was no accident. The girls didn't lose their footing on the bridge in fall. They were killed.

Mike later told RTB6 that the girls were together until the very end. He said, quote,

Neither did they. End quote. For two days, the area around the crime scene was combed for any evidence the killer could have possibly dropped while walking around. Very little information has been released about what was found. However, Carroll County Sheriff Lezenby did tell the Comet that there is DNA from the crime scene, but he didn't say where it originated. He added, "...there is suggestive evidence of fingerprints at the scene."

Investigators have, at this point, been kind of notoriously tight-lipped about this case. This has and continues to create frustration with the public. On numerous occasions, investigators have been asked why they aren't telling the public about many details of the case. Sgt. Jerry Holman with the Indiana State Police later addressed this topic.

A couple reasons. Number one is respect for the family. We don't want to share any personal information that brings this back, although they live with it daily. Second is to protect the integrity of the investigation. We do not want to share information that only we believe the killer or killers know. Because when we're interviewing those people, they know the details. We know the details. There's very few people that know every detail. There's some information that's been leaked out there.

unfortunately. But we know the details. So we do get tips from, I'll say, false confessions where somebody may say, hey, I was talking to so-and-so and they said this about how the crime occurred. And we can vet those out fairly quickly because of how they're telling us. We know the details. So we don't want that. It just makes the investigation easier.

And a lot of people will tell me, well, you're not going to get this guy to confess. You haven't found him in 15 months or 16 months. We may not confess to me, but he might confess to somebody else. And if that person comes and tells me the details that only the killer would know, because we're not releasing it to the public, I would love to. I would love to give all the information out and let everybody conduct their own investigation off of the facts and not the information that some people share on social media.

Social media is great, but it can be, like Ashley said earlier, it's very tough when people are doing their own investigations off of false information. So, but we just can't do it. By the night of February 15th, investigators identified a suspect in the murders of Abby and Libby. They'd gone through Libby's phone and found that she recorded a video of a man as he walked on the bridge.

The FBI has described this man as white, quote, with a heavy physical build, wearing a hat, blue jeans, a blue coat slash jacket, and a hoodie, end quote.

Investigators released a still image of the man from the video and asked anyone who knew him to come forward. On February 16th, a home in Delphi was searched. A sergeant with the ISP, or Indiana State Police, told the media that the search was in response to hundreds of tips they'd received. It's unclear whose home this was. According to Fox 59, evidence was taken from the home, but no arrests were made.

On February 22nd, nine days after the murders, the identity of the man on the bridge remained unknown. In hopes of bringing in more tips, investigators released a very short audio clip of the man saying the words, down the hill. ISP called Libby a hero for capturing the video and audio on her cell phone. And I couldn't agree more. I'm going to play that clip for you.

It goes really fast, so please note that the words have been looped so you can hear the man's voice more clearly. Investigators say they believe the man used, quote, manipulation and intimidation factors, end quote, in order to force Libby and Abby to go down the hill where they were later found dead.

HLN would later release that the man, now known as Bridge Guy, was with the girls at 2.13pm, the timestamp of Libby's video. He told the girls to go down the hill while they were on the south end of the bridge. As a side note, the owner of the property, Ron Logan, told RTV6 that the back end of his property, where the bodies were located, has steep embarkments and rough terrain.

He believed it would be difficult to make it to that location, let alone carry two bodies down. Logan said, quote, End quote.

Obviously, the video Libby took is invaluable to this investigation. Investigators pleaded with the public to look at the photo, listen to the audio, and then take a moment to reflect if they knew this man.

While investigators chased leads, Abby and Libby's families mourned. Libby's mother wanted to do something, so she put an orange lightbulb in her porch light and vowed to keep it on until the murderer was caught. The sentiment quickly caught on in Delphi. By February 25th, community members were lighting up Delphi by installing orange lightbulbs in their own porch lights.

A local Lowe's donated a thousand light bulbs, and the Delphi Lions Club offered them to the public for a freewill donation, which was then given to the girls' families. It wasn't long before people across the country were joining in on the gesture.

On March 9th, investigators held a press conference to give updates on the case. They said they were utilizing every resource the local, state, and federal authorities had at their disposal. They also dispersed information to 46 states using electronic billboards. Libby's grandfather, Mike, spoke to the media for the first time. This horrible crime has torn a hole in our families that'll never heal. It's the small things that seem to hurt the most.

It's just natural to holler for them to come to dinner or in the mornings to get up and get ready for school. Then expect them to come through the door after school. The silence when we don't hear their voice. Our girls were excited about the upcoming softball season. Just the day before all this happened, they had their equipment out playing catch, working on their batting in the backyard, going to the ball field with Anna to hone their skills for the upcoming season.

but they'll never get to play a single inning again. There are too many ways to count how our lives will forever be impacted to share here today. I imagine most people listening that have raised or are raising children know how kids can be. A phrase that was jokingly attached to Libby and our family from asking her to pick up her shoes, her school backpack, her coat, her first reply would almost always be, I will, in a minute. We joked with her about this all the time.

I believe if she were able to speak, she would ask people, please give her the one minute she always asked for to really study the picture and listen to the audio clip. Someone out there knows this person or persons. He's someone's neighbor, coworker, family member, friend, husband, or acquaintance. If and when any new information is released by law enforcement, please take another minute from your day to review all the information and help us collect the pieces of this puzzle.

Both of our families are requesting everyone to please help Abby and Libby. By the end of March, investigators announced that they were scaling back as a part of a, quote, normalization process of the investigation, end quote. At this point, they'd received 6,000 tips and conducted 500 interviews.

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There weren't really any major updates until July 17th. That day, investigators released a composite sketch of the man on the bridge. The sketch was based on eyewitness accounts from numerous people who were near or on the trail on the day of the murders. By late September, authorities were fielding thousands of tips.

Libby and Abby's families were doing whatever they could to spread the word about the case and share the sketch. They started a Facebook page and reached out to national networks for coverage. Before the end of the year, they were on Dr. Phil. But the holidays came and went without any answers about who killed Abby and Libby.

In February 2018, to mark the one-year anniversary, investigators held a press conference. ISP Superintendent Doug Carter spoke about how although a year has passed with no arrests, authorities were not ever going to give up on the search for the murderer. Investigators also stated they had interviewed...

thousands of potential suspects as a result of all the tips. Those interviews led them to arrest more than 20 people on unrelated charges. One of those people was Ron Logan, the owner of the property Abby and Libby's bodies were found on.

On March 16th, 2017, he was arrested on allegations that he violated the terms of his probation. These terms come from a 2014 DUI charge. So when he told investigators that he drove his vehicle on the morning the girls were killed, they saw that as a violation of his probation and arrested him.

Another person arrested was Daniel Nations. Someone called in a tip about him after he was arrested for expired tags in Colorado on September 27th, 2017. ISP investigators went to interview Nations because he'd been living in Indiana at the time of Abby and Libby's murders. Now, as soon as the people caught on that investigators were questioning someone, the side-by-side photos and speculation became rampant online.

After interviewing Daniel Nations, police announced there, quote, had been no information developed to specifically include or exclude, end quote, him as the murderer of Abby and Libby.

Nations was later extradited back to Indiana on unrelated felony charges for failing to register as a sex offender. He says he's been cooperative with the investigative efforts and allowed them to take his DNA. As of this recording, he has not been officially cleared as a person of interest. I mean, it seems like no one really has. However, investigators say he, quote, is not someone they care a whole lot about at this time, end quote.

While investigators continued to look into the thousands of tips they received, Abby and Libby's families were busy keeping the case fresh in people's minds. They sent flyers to every sheriff's office in the country, asked truck drivers to put magnets with details of the case on their trailers, and traveled to fairs and festivals hundreds of miles away.

In May 2018, the family spoke about the case on a panel at CrimeCon. Here's Abby's mother, Anna, talking about why she feels it's important to keep the girls' names out there. This is our new job. It is a full-time job. And when we're not doing this full-time job, we have other full-time jobs and families and things continue to happen in our lives. But this is still here. I just had a gal

asked me earlier this week and she said it's gonna be Abby's 15th birthday this year is it and I said yeah they should be driving they should have been doing their first formal this year in high school they should have been doing a lot of things but we're not and one of the things that they had an interest in was actually forensic science which was kind of an irony Abby was looking forward to doing her freshman year and including forensic science classes

So for them and for her, we have to do this, guys. We have to find him. Here is Libby's grandfather, Mike, on why they will never give up. Every day, as I've said, and it continues, I walk down the hallway, see her picture, say good morning. And instead of hollering upstairs to wake two girls up, I only do one now. And then I start to get frustrated, is a way to put it.

And I think the anger of the fact that she's gone, somebody's taken our girls from us, and that's what drives me. I have to find this guy. I'll do whatever it takes, go to whatever paces I have to go through. I'm not going to stop until we catch this guy, or I've exhausted every effort that I humanly possibly can. Okay.

We owe it to the girls. We owe it to our community, our state, our nation. This guy's out there. The fact of the matter is there's a killer out there who's guilty of a double homicide. And he's walking our streets. He lives somewhere down the road from somebody.

I'm going to keep going and keep handing out flyers and going on shows or talking to anybody who, you know, I love when somebody says, I haven't heard about this case. Great. You're a person I need to talk to because you may know somebody and share it with your friends and your network of people. Because somebody out there knows this guy. They know him. They may not know about the case yet. And as soon as they do,

All they need to do is call that tip in. Like Jerry said, he has a wealth of network going on where they can check tips and leads and the information that's available at their fingertips. That's all we need is that little last piece of this puzzle. Give us this guy.

A little less than a year later, in April 2019, ISP held a press conference where they announced a lot. After speaking with eyewitnesses from the trail, investigators realized that the man from the first sketch, the one released in July 2017, is not the murderer.

They said the man from the first sketch is no longer, quote, presently a person of interest in this investigation, end quote. Investigators announced that a new sketch had been created, one that did depict the real murderer. This new sketch shows a much younger-looking, clean-shaven man.

They say the man could look differently today than he did on February 13th, 2017. He could have grown facial hair or cut his hair, anything to drastically alter his appearance. Now, there's no debating that this whole new sketch versus old sketch thing is extremely confusing. Investigators did clarify that the new sketch was the man from the bridge seen in Libby's video. However, he was not the same man from the first sketch.

Investigators also announced that they were looking for the driver of a vehicle that was parked near the entrance to the trail between the hours of 12 p.m. and 5 p.m. on February 13th. The car was parked near the old CPS Welfare Building. This is located on the east side of Country Road 300 North next to the Hoosier-Heartland Highway. And then, finally, we get something more than just a still clip of this guy on the bridge. We get some video.

Investigators shared a very short video with no sound of the suspect walking on the bridge. The hope was that someone would see the suspect's mannerisms and gait and know who he was. But they did note that the man is on a former railroad bridge, which has deteriorated, so he isn't walking naturally. They also released a slightly extended clip of the down the hill audio, which I'll play for you now. Down the hill. Down the hill.

And we get another bombshell. ISP Superintendent Carter announced for the first time that investigators believe the killer has a connection to Delphi. Carter stated it's possible the man currently lives there or previously lived there, or that maybe he visits often or works there. Somehow he has a connection to Delphi. Carter also had a message for the killer. Directly to the killer, who may be in this room,

We believe you are hiding in plain sight. For more than two years, you never thought we would shift gears to a different investigative strategy, but we have. We likely have interviewed you or someone close to you. We know that this is about power to you, and you want to know what we know, and one day you will. A question to you: What will those closest to you think of when they find out that you brutally murdered two little girls?

Two children, only a coward would do such a thing. We are confident that you have told someone what you have done. Or at the very least, they know because of how different you are since the murders. Before the end of the conference, Superintendent Carter asked the public to be patient. He says with a completely new sketch, the investigation was only now beginning.

Of course, I talked to Kelsey about this new sketch. When the sketch came out, I was incredibly frustrated. We had spent, I believe at this time, two years, maybe three, searching for this older looking man. We'd looked everywhere. We'd shared this flyer. The sketch was everywhere in Indiana that we could possibly get the sketch. We'd shared it on Instagram.

national news. It was on news internationally. Like it was everywhere. And we dedicated so much of our time to share that sketch that it was, it was defeating to now have this almost opposite looking man out there that now we have, we have to share a whole new face. Now I'm, I try to understand why police did it. I still get frustrated because it doesn't make sense to me.

I just honestly wish we had a better answer to give people than, well, we had advancements in knowledge and technology. That's why we switched it, which great. If that's what happened, fine. But there has to be a reason why we're doing this complete 180. Like there has to be a better answer for that. And I just, I don't have that. I wish I could give people something better.

Yeah. I mean, because I know people come to you for those types of answers. They want to know from you, why is it different? Why don't you know? I mean, that has to be incredibly frustrating. It is. And it's not something that they'll answer even to this day. It's still, we had advancements in technology and knowledge. And yeah, that's great because from 2017 to 2019, there should be advancements in knowledge and technology. Like,

you should be learning more. But there has to be something that you can share, at least with families that says like, this is why we switched or even a clear answer as to who we're looking for. Because right now all we have is the new sketch is primary and the other sketch is secondary. So what does that mean? We don't really have answers to those questions.

In the 24 hours after the release of this new sketch, video, and audio, nearly a thousand tips poured into the tip line. Before the month was up, investigators asked the public to please stop sharing side-by-side photos of the sketch and people they believed could be the killer. Carroll County Sheriff tweeted, quote, "'Please stop posting side-by-side pictures of people you think did this.'"

you are ruining innocent people's lives. Before posting a side-by-side, imagine that is your son, brother, or father. If you have a tip, we have given you the proper way to report it."

For the next few years, the investigation continued without any other major updates from investigators. And again, during that time, Abby and Libby's families continued spreading the word about the case. They also came up with an amazing way to honor the girls' love for the outdoors, adventure, sports, and the arts. The Abby and Libby Memorial Park. It includes a bandshell, two playgrounds, three softball fields, and a walking trail. The

The park is now open. Abby and Libby's families are solely responsible for the operation and upkeep of the park. From cutting the grass to selling food out of the concession stand, they run it all. I think it's a really beautiful thing. For years to come, parents and children will have a place to spend time together while also remembering Abby and Libby.

In February 2021, Abby and Libby's family spoke with the journal and Courier about all the things they'd missed out on in the past four years without the girls. Anna said they were robbed of the whole teenage experience. First dates, learning how to drive, prom dress shopping. She pointed out that the girls would have been seniors that year. They should have been planning college and graduating with their classmates, but they weren't.

Mike said that Libby had big plans for herself. She wanted to be a physician or a research scientist. He said, quote, That's what she wanted to do. Find cures. Eighth grade and she knew what she wanted to do. She knew at what age she wanted to be married. She knew how many kids she wanted. She actually wrote this stuff down. End quote.

There's really no way to fully describe the loss of a loved one, to fully explain every single moment and milestone that is so much less without them here to share it. But I did ask Kelsey how losing Libby has affected her life, especially as she was going through some of the most crucial years of her life, as she graduated college and got married.

In every way possible. I first and foremost, I lost my best friend. She was the person that was supposed to stand next to me at my wedding. She should have been at all of my big milestones and she wasn't. And so that was a very big, it had a very big impact on me in that way. But also when I started college, I started out in college.

journalism, and I was going to be a reporter. And that's what I wanted to do for my entire life. And I no longer wanted to do that. I didn't want to do reporting. I didn't want to be a journalist because I'd met so many journalists that weren't great at their job. And that kind of

Changed the whole trajectory of where I was going down my career path. And now I'm doing something completely different. I get to work with family members and meet really amazing people that are fighting for justice, just like I am. And yeah, so I think in every way, I'm a completely different person because this happened.

Yeah. And I do want to get into changing your major in part two, because I did the same thing. And part two is definitely where we'll get into all that. But, you know, I do. I was wondering if you would like to tell the listeners about how you included Libby in your college graduation and your wedding, because I thought it was really sweet. Yeah, I did quite a few things really for like to make sure she was included in all of the above things.

So on my graduation day, I put a picture of her in my cap. And I actually, before I went, I actually stood by my door where I had a picture of her and just like stared at her picture and smiled and said, look, we got to do another thing. Like you've got to walk with me down another aisle. So she walked with me at my high school graduation too. And now she got to walk with me at my college graduation too.

And, um, when I moved my tassel over, I even said, you know, look, we did it. I didn't do this without you in mind for one single second. And then at my wedding, I did the same thing. Um, my bridesmaids actually got me a, and my grandma, they got me a tassel to put on my bouquet with a picture of Libby's face. Um, that just was a reminder that she was walking with me on my wedding day. Um,

And we also had a memorial ladder so that I could go over and see and memorialize all of the people that we have lost. So Abby and Libby were both in our reception with us. We lit candles for them and made sure that they were remembered in every way possible.

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In 2020, in a small California mountain town, five women disappeared. I found out what happened to all of them, except one. A woman known as Dia, whose estate is worth millions of dollars. I'm Lucy Sheriff. Over the past four years, I've spoken with Dia's family and friends, and I've discovered that

Everyone has a different version of events. Hear the story on Where's Dear? Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. On April 19th, 2021, James Bryan Chadwell was arrested after he kidnapped, molested, and attempted to murder a nine-year-old girl in Lafayette, Indiana.

Very quickly, word spread around the internet that Chadwell could be responsible for Abby and Libby's deaths. When asked if they were investigating the possible lead, Carroll County Sheriff Lezenby said authorities were, quote, looking into him, end quote. A few months later, the Journal and Courier asked Lezenby for follow-up information about Chadwell. He told them, quote, no further comment on Mr. Chadwell or any other suspect will be afforded in the foreseeable future, end quote.

But as 2021 was coming to an end, ISP announced something major. My name is Sergeant Jeremy Pierce, the public information officer with the Indiana State Police out of Lafayette Post.

While investigating the murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German, detectives with the Carroll County Sheriff's Office and the Indiana State Police have uncovered an online profile named Anthony Schatz. This profile was being used from 2016 to 2017 on social media applications including but not limited to Snapchat and Instagram.

The fictitious Anthony Schatz profile used images of a known male model and portrayed himself as being extremely wealthy and owning numerous sports cars. The creator of the fictitious profile used this information while communicating with juvenile females to solicit nude images, obtain their address, and attempt to meet with them.

Pictured on your screen, you'll see images of the known male model and images of the fictitious profile sent to the underage females. We have already identified the male in these images that were used by Anthony Schatz. The male in the photo is not the person of interest in the investigation. Detectives are seeking information about the person who created the Anthony Schatz profile.

Investigators would like any individual who communicated, met, or attempted to meet the Anthony Schatz profile to contact law enforcement by utilizing the TIP email: [email protected] Please provide as much information as you possibly can. For example, when you communicated with Anthony Schatz, how you communicated with the profile,

what social media applications the account used, and if Anthony Schatz attempted to meet you or obtain your address. If you have saved images or conversations with Anthony Schatz's profile, please attach them to your email. Again, if you have any information, please contact law enforcement by utilizing the TIP email, [email protected]. Thank you.

Investigators were able to track the Anthony underscore shots account to Kagan Klein, a man in his 20s living in Peru, Indiana. He was ultimately arrested and charged with 30 counts related to the Anthony underscore shots account, including child pornography, child exploitation, and child solicitation.

Klein later told HLN he had nothing to do with Libby and Abby's murders. However, he did admit to creating the Anthony underscore shots account. His purpose for doing so was to solicit child sex abuse material from children. Klein said he didn't want to meet any of the children in real life. He was just lonely and just talking to people. Here's how it relates to Abby and Libby.

Klein told HLN that investigators have told him that the Anthony underscore shots account was the last to communicate with Libby before her murder.

When asked if he talked to Libby on February 13th, Klein said, quote, that's what the police told me, end quote. But Klein says he doesn't remember communicating with Libby. Klein also told HLN that he gave police a DNA sample and a hair follicle sample. He says he does not believe he will be charged in connection with Abby and Libby's deaths.

In March 2022, the podcast The Murder Sheet gave local Indiana news outlet iTeam8 a court document they obtained outlining a 2020 interview between investigators and Kagan Klein. This is after his unrelated arrest. It revealed that Klein had been on ISP's radar pretty much since the beginning of the girl's case.

Now, before I get into what was said in this interview, I do want to preface here that interviews, or really interrogations as this seems to be, in my opinion, are not perfect sources of information. It's no secret that investigators can and do lie to get people talking, to confess, or falsely confess.

It's also worth noting that investigators were not under oath during this interview. So I personally take this and all interrogations with a grain of salt. But if these statements are true, here's what we learn from that conversation. Kagan Klein was not the only person with access to the Anthony underscore shots account. Two people had access. Investigators tell Klein, quote,

Regardless of what you say, there are two different authors of those messages. They're not both you. They're both your devices. But the phrasing is different. It changes. It's not the same person. So we know we have multiple logins from Snapchat. We have two different people using Keg Messenger. Talking to people from your residence, end quote. It's worth noting here that Kegan Klein did live with his father before his arrest.

Klein admits to being in contact with Libby. The investigator asks, quote, You admitted that you talked to her for a few hours at a sleepover, and then you blocked her because she was annoying. You remember that? End quote.

Klein confirms, but later states he doesn't believe he spoke with Libby. Investigators also say that Klein was conducting, quote, non-stop searches of the Delphi case, end quote. He also searched how long does DNA last. Klein responds and says he's not sure why he would have searched that, but possibly because his DNA was tested. They also discuss how he failed two polygraph tests, but as we know, those are extremely fickle and aren't admissible in court.

In May 2022, the murder sheet obtained a search warrant related to Ron Logan and his home. While there was some information released about Ron Logan's statements and actions appearing to be suspicious to law enforcement, it also revealed some things about the crime scene and the case in general. The document explains that investigators believe whoever killed the girls likely got blood on their hands or clothing due to the vast amount of blood the girls lost.

It also explains that it appears that a piece of clothing from one of the girls is missing, possibly taken as a souvenir of sorts by the person or persons responsible. It also appears that neither of the girls seems to have put up a fight. One glimmer of hope I see in this document is investigators obtained unknown fibers and hair that can hopefully be tested and used to undoubtedly place whoever did this at the scene.

Now, although many people have been looked at as possible persons of interest in this case by law enforcement, and the internet could probably name a hundred more, it seems the court of public opinion is mostly tied between Ron Logan and Kagan Klein somehow being involved. Ron Logan maintained his innocence until he passed away in 2020. Many people have reached out to Kagan Klein as he's awaiting trial for his unrelated charges. Some have spoken with him.

He continues to deny having any involvement in the murders. And that's basically where the case is today. This, of course, is a brief overview. Investigators are keeping details about this case close to the vest. We don't know much about the crime scene. We don't have official statements about whom they're looking for or why. And the list goes on.

This has been met with a lot of scrutiny from people who just want to help get justice for Abby and Libby. But we have to work with what we have. Bridge Guy has been featured on the FBI's Most Wanted list. And investigators are still seeking information about the Anthony underscore shots account. For the five-year anniversary in February 2022, Sheriff Lesenby reiterated that this is not a cold case. It is extremely active.

Abby and Libby's family spoke to WLFI News 18 about how they were holding up. Abby's grandfather Eric said, "...it's similar to having a sore on your knee or your elbow, and that sore after a few days starts to scab over, and then next thing you know you bump it, and that scab comes off and then it hurts again."

Libby's grandfather Mike said, "...I feel like I've been stolen from. Like we've had something taken away from us that should have never happened. I'm frustrated that we're five years down the road and we don't have the person responsible behind bars. Somebody's walking a free man after committing a double murder. That's the fact. And he's still out there somewhere."

Which brings me right to our call to action. There are so many ways you can help Abby and Libby. You can share the facts, flyers, audio, and video. We don't know what happened on the trail that day, but Libby, at just 14 years old, was so brave to take out her phone and record the person who likely killed her and Abby. This case feels so within reach of being solved.

Please share that video. Please share information about the Anthony underscore shots account. From where I'm sitting, those girls, those literal children, did everything in their power to help the public identify who did this to them. Now it's our turn to help. You can continue to share all of...

The information that me and my family share, we put all of the accurate information on our social media handles and try to share all of that as much as possible. Continue to share the flyer. And most importantly, if we're going off the most recent information released by law enforcement, we're looking for people that have ever had contact with the Anthony Schatz profile. So whether you talk to him personally,

In 2016 or 2018 or whenever that might have been on whatever social media platform, we really need those people to come forward. And you can stay anonymous and just talk to law enforcement. I don't need to hear from you. There's people that have come to me and sent me those tips. And I feel for every single one of you.

But I don't need that. All I'm going to do is take that information and send it to the tip line or to our detectives. So there's nothing I can really do with that. So I guess if one thing, one thing that would help the most for me is if we take those tips directly to them and trust that law enforcement is looking at them because it can be really hard for me and my family to read all of those when we receive them.

Abby and Libby were real people and that our families are real people that are trying so hard to get through this journey and get to the other side of it.

Anyone with information is asked to call the tip line at 765-822-3535. Callers can remain anonymous. You can also submit tips online at abbyandlibbytip at c-a-c-o-s-h-r-f dot com.

There is currently a $325,000 reward being offered for any information that leads to the arrest and conviction of the person responsible for murdering Abby and Libby. Next time on Voices for Justice. How do you look back on that now? How do you feel about interviews you did when you were 17?

I would say I definitely edit my responses and I know that Sarah definitely knows that. I am way too nice. There have definitely been times where I probably should have said more, but I hate confrontation and I don't want somebody to be like, I'm not covering your sister because you aren't easy to work with. You call me out on my crap, which is what we should do.

What is the craziest rumor you've heard that you'd just like to squash right here and now? If you asked me in March of 17, the things that I remembered at that time and the way I remembered things were just not all completely accurate because my brain had like pushed all of this to the back and said it wasn't that, like it was this or no, I don't remember that. And there's still times where things are like

So, I mean, let's just address it. You've been accused of changing your story about the day you dropped off the girls. Can you set the record straight here?