Fire at Sea: Cruise Ship Rescue | "When the Going Gets Tough..." | 5
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From Wondery, I'm Mike Corey, and this is Against the Odds. Over the last four episodes, we've told the story of Prince and Dam cruise ship, which caught fire in the icy waters of the Gulf of Alaska in the early hours of October 4th, 1980. More than 500 passengers and crew were forced to abandon ship into lifeboats, and the weather deteriorated with the typhoon descending.

U.S. Coast Guard, Air Force and Canadian Forces launched a daring rescue operation. In the end, every one of the passengers and crew members survived. Today, we're joined by two of those survivors, John Graham and his daughter Mallory, who was just 13 at the time of the sinking.

They're with us to share their experiences of the fire and rescue. But first, we'll hear from retired Coast Guard Captain Stephen Corcoran. Stephen was the operations officer on board the Coast Guard Cutter Boutwell at the time. The ship was docked in Juneau, Alaska, when the call came in signaling Prince and Dam was in trouble. Here are some of his reflections of that night. We had arrived in Juneau on our way to a fisheries patrol in the Bering Sea.

And that was routine employment for this class of cutter. 378 feet long, crew of 150, with a flight deck and we carried a helicopter. The crew dispersed to every possible sailor hangout in Juneau. The executive officer and I went to the Prospector Hotel where there was a gathering. And the Royal Canadian Mounted Police were there and the city police.

Now, I had left this gathering early because it was just too much. This poor sailor needs his sleep.

My head just hit the pillow when the officer of the deck made the announcement to the crew, saying that there was a cruise ship on fire in the Gulf of Alaska, and we were underway 59 minutes after we got a call to go. And it was just a gorgeous night. It was clear, it was calm, the water was like glass, and we ran at 25 knots to the Gulf of Alaska,

There was a remains of a typhoon approaching the scene from the west. There was some pitching, there was some rolling, but I don't think anybody noticed. The crew was asleep, and when we arrived on scene...

There were lifeboats scattered about. There were helicopters in the air. Prince Anand looked the way you'd like a cruise ship to look. It was on an even keel. She was dead in the water. The only problem was there was smoke issuing from the engine room area, and it was black, dense smoke. And a helicopter hovering over the stern was evacuating the last firefighters that Prince Anand's captain had retained.

That was retired Coast Guard Captain Stephen Corcoran. His knowledge and book, None Were Lost, The Prince and Dam Fire and Rescue, helped guide us through this series. After the break, we'll hear from father-daughter survivors John and Mallory Graham, who were passengers aboard Prince and Dam.

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John and Mallory Graham were passengers aboard Princeton Dam when it caught fire and sank more than 40 years ago. Mallory was just 13 when she took this cruise with her dad. Now she's a filmmaker. Her father, John, is the author of Quest, Risk, Adventure, and The Search for Meaning. He'll join us in a little bit.

But first, Mallory Graham, welcome to Against the Odds. It's great to have you with us today. Thank you so much, Mike. It's an honor to be here. So Mallory, take us back to that night. It's October, it's 1980, you're 13 and you're on this boat with your dad. But how did you find yourself on Princeton Dam? Why were you there?

I was so excited to be there because it meant that I was out of school for three weeks. It was this great opportunity where my dad got a job lecturing and he got a free ticket to bring someone with him. And so I jumped at the chance. I was like, woohoo, no school. Skip school for a cruise? Not bad. Exactly. And I had also never been on a cruise. We were

not a family that took cruises. And so to get to go on a cruise ship, it was very fancy too. You know, multiple decks and multiple restaurants and like a store on board. And so, yeah, I found myself on the MS Prince and Dam. And, you know, it was me and mostly a bunch of retirees

But I could care less. I was running all over the ship, kind of discovering every nook and cranny. And dad and I, the first couple of days, just spent all of our time like playing ping pong or whatever else we could get our hands on. It was really the thrill of a lifetime. So 13-year-old, skipping school, on a cruise ship with your dad, Gulf of Alaska, paradise. Absolute paradise. You know, and they had made me bring some school books along as if I was going to do homework or something, but you know, no way. No way.

Three days, fun with dad. And in the middle of the night, one night, someone came on the intercom. Can you take us to that moment where things, at least we know they were going south, but did you know they were going south? I

I had no idea. Dad and I had been palling around all day. I was exhausted. I was asleep in bed. And I was woken up with an initial sound over the intercom system that said, in a voice that was not, you know, anything to worry about, oh, there's a little bit of smoke. We're just letting the passengers know. And I thought it was nothing. And so I just went back to sleep. Then a little bit later, there was a second announcement. And there was something about the tone of the voice that

That just sounded more urgent. And at that point, my dad woke me up and said, actually, we do need to actually get out of here. But at the point, it was literally something innocuous like, oh, there's a little bit of smoke and we're clearing it out kind of for the passengers convenience. So please come up on deck and we've got free drinks that we're pouring and snacks and

And so we both were like, well, you know, we were just woken up, but it was like, okay. So I pulled on my jeans and maybe a sweatshirt and went up on deck thinking that we were just going to be up for 20 minutes or so. And then I could come back to bed. Little did I know.

And when you did get up on that deck where there was free food, snacks, drinks, what was the vibe like up there? I remember getting up on deck and going into the restaurant area and literally enjoying a show. Like they had all of the ship's entertainment crew was singing show tunes from Oklahoma. I really, I remember the songs that they were singing because it was like, oh yeah, we're just supposed to be having a fun time. And

I was 13, so I wasn't drinking, but I was downing my Shirley Temples and eating peanuts. And it's funny when I think back that we were sitting on a flaming inferno and had no idea while they were playing show tunes from Oklahoma.

And it very much was like, you know, I've only seen the movies, but the scenes from the Titanic when the orchestra is playing and the ship is going down, we just had no idea that it was that serious. Or at least certainly as the 13-year-old kid on board, I had no idea. And had you dressed warmly to go up on deck?

No, I mean, there were other people who were up on deck just literally in their nightgowns and their robes. And I remember sitting next to people, some of the wives that were like that. I had at least put on, I think, a pair of slacks and a short, but nothing more than that because I literally assumed that I'd be going back down to my room and crawling back into bed in a couple minutes, you know, once the smoke cleared. Mm-hmm.

And so the fun, the fanfare slowly started to turn a little bit dark once people realized that there was a big problem and this little fire wasn't so little after all. For you being so young at 13, when that was dawning on your mind, what was the feeling there? Was it fear? Was it preparedness? Was it even some kind of excitement or what was the feeling like? Yeah.

Yeah. So when things turned and the announcement was to go out onto the deck and go to your lifeboat station, we had done this as a drill, you know, when we had first gotten on board. So I knew where lifeboat number two station was. Dad and I had done this before. So in a lot of ways, I was like, oh, we're just doing the lifeboat drill again. I'm going where I need to go.

But there was a very distinct moment when we were at lifeboat number two station, when suddenly the flames shot out on deck. That was my wake up call moment where all of the adults had been playing down that there was really nothing to worry about. But then when I could see it with my own eyes and I saw the flames at the other end of the deck, I was like,

And it was like, oh, oh my God, we are going to have to get off this boat. It's that was the reality moment of, okay, this is really real. But I still, you know, I was, when I think back, I was still in that excitement mode of a 13 year old kid. Like the idea that how dangerous it was did not dawn on me. It was all actually pretty still exciting. It was very much like, okay, what's next? We're getting into a lifeboat, you know, tell me what to do.

And excited might seem like a strange word now that we know where the story goes. But think back to a fire drill in high school or elementary school. There is a, is there something wrong? We don't really know. But you feel safe. But there is a level of excitement because you're thrown into this little unpredictable scenario. And then I imagine if I saw a flamethrower blow out of the side of a school, then that changes the vibe a little bit to terror. Oh, this is actually a really big deal.

Yeah, absolutely. So it was seeing the flames, the live flames shoot up. That was my first indication. The other second most scary moment was when we all packed into the lifeboats and they started to lower them down because the boat was already listing. And we were also not in calm waters. And you always go and you do a life drill, but you never actually have to go and actually have the boat get lowered down. And that the mechanics of how that happens-

are actually terrifying. And this is where, like, I think many of the accidents can happen. And believe you me, as I'm in this lifeboat being lowered down against the hull of this huge boat with flames coming and the lifeboat hitting against the hull of the boat, you know, and the waves then coming up. And so you're starting to get wet and people are panicking for the first time. That was absolutely my most scary moment.

Well, it would have been a carnival ride from hell, right? Because if you think about it, Princeton Dam is rocking back and forth. You're attached to the side. You're being lowered, but then you're going back and forth as well independently of Princeton Dam and into the cold, frigid waters below. You'd be just spinning and flopping in so many different axes. It would be terrifying.

Yeah, so believe it or not, I think the moment that we actually landed in the water and started drifting away from the boat was actually when a sense of a little bit more calm and kind of control of the situation came back after that experience of being lowered down. And many of those lifeboats were overcrowded, yours included, right? Yeah, we didn't know how many people were supposed to be in ours, but I think we were supposed to have 45 people in our boat and we had double that number for sure. So they were definitely really crowded.

It's something that I actually now, whenever I am on a ferry or a boat, I always look at the capacity of the lightboat numbers and see how many people they really can take. It's something you never think of or notice until you've actually had that experience. As you were floating away from Princeton Dam in the dark on a lifeboat with double the amount of people, do you remember what you felt then?

It was so interesting because you would think that, you know, you'd have this moment of getting lower down into a lifeboat and you have this huge big boat, but really quickly you are suddenly alone. You drift apart from the rest of all the other lifeboats and from Prince and Dam itself. And so you'd be surprised at how quick we were out in the middle of the ocean with nothing around in pitch darkness.

So on some level, you could say that there was a calmness to that, but it was also like, oh, we are out here on our own. We're going to take a quick break. And when we come back, we'll hear more from Mallory and also welcome her father, John, to the show.

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You know, there was no panic. And it's funny to think that there was kind of a Zen-like feeling in the boat. I know that sounds really strange, but part of it was we were all just very present dealing with the fact that we're in a teeny little boat.

And also there are, you know, 15 foot waves. There was a storm coming on. And so I distinctly remember having to kind of brace myself. And I came up with this game a little bit to kind of watch the waves and time them because it really was, it was a little bit like,

you know, an amusement park ride because your wave would go up and then you would drop and, you know, your stomach would drop. And I definitely did get sick. I remember, you know, hurling over the side of the boat a couple of times. And so it was just figuring out how to steal myself and almost just kind of having to just be present to keep from getting too sick.

Well, or too cold because you guys must have been freezing. This is the Gulf of Alaska, you know, and most people didn't even come out in anything more than pajamas. And now you're in the ocean with cold salt water lopping over the sides. Yeah, no, absolutely. I think one of my worst memories is when I talked about kind of bracing myself for the drop in a wave. We always knew that the water, that cold water would be crashing into us at that time.

as well. And I had, you know, jeans and a t-shirt or a sweatshirt or something, but we had all kind of grabbed curtains from the Princeton Dam itself too. So everyone was kind of covered in these curtains as well, but it was really not much protection from what we were experiencing out in the Gulf of Alaska. And were there any reference points? Could you see Princeton Dam? Could you see the fires on Princeton Dam? Could you see any other boats?

No. So again, we really floated away pretty quickly and saw nothing. It was again, the middle of the night. One of the silver linings was that we were out in the Gulf of Alaska and there were Northern Lights. So, you know, here you are like in a shipwreck. Most people like pay good money to go to Alaska to see the Northern Lights. I would choose to see them under different circumstances, but we did see them that night.

And it was several hours before there was any activity in the air. I actually have a really distinct memory that we saw the first helicopter go by and we were so excited because we're like, oh my God, this is it. We're going to get rescued. But the helicopters kept passing us by and it looked like they were just going to other lifeboats. And I remember someone in our boat joking that

wait a minute, the next time they come by, really don't look so good. Don't wave. Like we want to look like we're in really terrible straits. So they come and they stop and rescue us. So it seems like there was a bit of a gallows humor in the sense that people there were stuck. There's no way out. You're in this together, but morale seemed to be at least okay.

Oh, absolutely. I do remember, you know, it's kind of become a life motto of mine, make what's happening your plan. There were a lot of passengers on board who had lived long, full lives, who were really experienced, who just had a good sense about themselves of like, we're just going to make the best of this. And so people were actually cracking jokes and trying to be jovial and kind of keep the spirits high. And were you speaking much to your dad?

We have both asked each other, what did we talk about for 10 hours in a lifeboat? And neither of us really remembers the content of like anything that we said in particular. But when I think back about the terror that I should have been feeling being 13 year old

kid in a lifeboat. I think just the fact that I was huddled up next to my dad, who has always been my life hero. And so I had the sense that like nothing could go wrong and it didn't matter what he was saying or he didn't have to be giving me, you know, a pep talk or anything, but it was just his presence that just made me think that everything's going to be okay. Well, that's a good father.

And you were together for about 10 hours in that boat, but then you were separated because you both couldn't get lifted up to the helicopter at the same time, right? So when you were separated, what was that like?

Yeah. So both my dad and I were in the bow of the lifeboat. And so when a helicopter did finally come to our boat, they would lower down a metal basket and pick one person up at a time. And I had not gone early on. Well, one, I was in the far end of the boat, but I also didn't want to be separated from my dad.

And I'm going to share kind of a cliche story with you. But there was like we literally the one thing that we both remember saying to each other right in that moment as I'm about to be lifted off in a metal basket had come from our earlier days on the Princeton Dam. We had been playing ping pong together and, you know, he's definitely raised me.

having a good competitive spirit. And if I were losing, he'd say, come on, Mal, you know, when the going gets tough and I would respond, the tough get going, dad. And I think it was probably the only way that I was able to actually get into that basket and not like break into tears or just have a crisis moment for myself. But we actually said those words to each other. So I get into the basket and my dad turns to me and says, okay, Mal, when the going gets tough, you know, and I look at him and I go, the tough get going, dad,

You'd think you'd be saying, oh my God, Dad, I love you so much. But it was that exchange that actually was the exchange that set all of that for us and allowed me, I think, to have the stoicism that I needed to get in that basket and leave him.

We spoke a bit about how going down into the water in the life raft would have been an amusement ride from hell. But I imagine getting airlifted from a boat in the ocean by a helicopter with these. I picture almost like those carnival games where you control the claw to pick up a prize. Was it like that? It was totally like that. That's actually a great analogy.

You know, the helicopter pilots are so amazing because they're having to hover and trying to angle the basket to drop into your boat. Remember, we're like in a storm, 15-foot waves. And then the minute you get into the basket, you're suddenly lifted up. And it's not like it's a quick, easy claw that brings you up like those games. As the ocean falls, right? Because you're moving target, yeah. Exactly. And you start to spin. So add that to that claw game. You're spinning around kind of out of control. Yeah.

And so that ride up was totally terrifying. But again, I have to admit, it was also kind of exciting. I'm 13 years old and like I'm having this exciting moment and being pulled up into the helicopter.

And this is a really embarrassing part of my story, but the minute the door to the helicopter is open and I can see who's up there rescuing me, it's a Coast Guard guy in a white helmet and an orange uniform. It's 1980 and the Star Wars movies have just come out. And I'm a 13-year-old kid and I had probably seen those movies like 15 times. And I looked up and I'm like, oh my God, I'm being rescued by Luke Skywalker. Yeah.

From one hero, your father, to the next, I guess, right? Actually, that's a really good way to say it. I really was leaving my dad hero and being rescued by Luke Skywalker. So I was in good hands during this whole thing. Could you see your dad in the ocean below? That was kind of the last moment that I got to see him because you're immediately kind of taken into the back of the helicopter and flown off. That was our goodbye for the next three days.

Well, speaking of the man, let's bring him onto the show. John Graham, welcome to the conversation. Glad to be here. So we heard a bit of Mallory's story. Let's hear a bit of your story, and then we're going to put it all together and welcome Mallory back. So how did you first find yourself a passenger aboard Prince of Dam? I was 38 years old.

Well, the only thing that was important to me in my life at 38 years was adventure. I mean, I was an adventure junkie. It was climbing mountains. It was dodging bullets, being in revolutions in the Foreign Service, a year program against the odds. I was lucky to be alive at 38 years old. I really was. But there was a certain emptiness in my life because all that mattered was me. All that mattered was my adventuring. And so each adventure was more outrageous than the one before.

But there was still no there there in my heart. And I learned that you can make a lot of money if you were a good speaker, which I was.

by lecturing on cruise ships. So that's what brought me to the Prince of the End. My first application was to Holland American Airlines and they accepted it. And there I was, Mallory and I flew to Vancouver and the adventure began. And that vacation was going very well, it sounded like, until there was an intercom announcement at the middle of the night. So what's your version of that story? I mean, Mallory was 13. You were obviously much older and her father. So we heard her side, but what was rushing through your head?

Well, there was this initial voice, very calm. It said there'd been a fire in the engine room, but it was a bit smoky, but no problem. They were putting it out. Well, I ignored it foolishly, I suppose. And then, like Mallory said, it happened a second time. And this time there was a bit of an edge in the voice of the captain. So that's when, as Mallory says, hey, let's get going. And we did. And we put on light clothes.

And Mallory opened the door and the corridor was full of smoke. It wasn't just a little bit of smoke. There was a lot of smoke. We ended up out on the deck. The problem was when you looked around to where we'd just come up,

The smoke following us up that stairwell was getting blacker and thicker. So all of a sudden it occurred to me and many other people that the captain's announcements were lies. This fire was not in control. It was out of control. After an hour or so out on the deck, we were all told to go to the stern of the ship, the fantail. But the fire was now really out of control and smoke was not only coming up the stairwells but up around the sides of the ship.

And some colored lights, festive lights fell down and broke with a shattering of sparks. And that's the first time I heard people scream. So at that point, we are called to lifeboat stations. And we get to the lifeboat stations. As Mallory says, we're going into a lifeboat that's drastically overloaded. And the captain says, he's a Dutchman. It's a Dutch cruise ship. He says, I'm very sorry, Jordan 4. We have lost the battle with the flames.

and we must now abandon the ship. So I ask you all to be calm and to obey the orders of the crew and get into your lifeboat. I'm very sorry for this." So we start doing that, and just as we're loading, all of a sudden there were 30-foot flames shooting up into the air as we were boarding the lifeboat. And I'll never forget this.

Mallory, who is incredibly brave through all of this, I still can't believe how brave she was. She looks at the flames, thus saying a word, but I can see the flames reflected off her eyes. That was a huge moment. I could see this 30-foot tongue of flame reflected off my daughter's eyes.

And we get into the lifeboat, and the lifeboat, as Mallory has already told you, was banging against the side of the ship, and it looked like it may crack the lifeboat. What I remember, Mike, was putting my hand against the side of Prince and Dan, putting my hand against the hull and feeling heat. I could feel the fire through the steel hull.

And that's when I knew that that ship was doomed. I think in these situations, there's chaos and there's control. I mean, you've done some great adventures, traveled the world and been in tough situations, but never with a 13-year-old daughter. Were you concerned or were you prepared or how did you feel? I am exactly the person, Mike, you would want in your foxhole in a tough situation. I was born that way.

So what concerned me was the morale, if you will, of the people on the lifeboat. Mallory was incredible.

I didn't expect anything less, but nonetheless, a 13 year old kid could have been a handful. She could have been crying and whatever. And I would have had to totally consume myself with keeping her calm, but that wasn't the case. If anything, Mallory kept other people calm. I started screaming, yelling, or singing, "Row, row, row your boat," any other stupid campfire song I could think of, and getting people to join me. So we sang campfire songs for a while,

before the helicopters began to arrive. And when you did say goodbye to your daughter, what was that like for you? Well, I didn't know what would happen. I thought there was a reasonable chance that the helicopters might come get the rest of us. But the key thing was this typhoon coming on. So the waves began to grow and grow and grow and got worse and worse. And then the wind started up and then it clouded over as the typhoon hit.

The helicopters, the Coast Guard and the Canadian rescue words deserve the highest praise. They were incredibly professional in every aspect. So they came over and they took one last load. The captain said that word or maybe we just intuited it that he couldn't come back. So at that point, I knew that we were in serious trouble. I wasn't going to join Mallory. It's now down to about eight or 10 men and lifeboat number two.

And I could see hypothermia setting in. But the key thing was, was that it was getting dark in Alaska. It was about six o'clock. So there was something less than an hour of daylight left. The only hope of rescue was with Coast Guard cutters. Two of them had arrived on the scene steaming out from their bases in Alaska.

And even in daylight, it would be a long shot in a storm with visibility now down to maybe 100 meters for them to find us. As soon as it got dark, I knew we were dead because we had no lights.

We had no flares. We had no reflective mirrors. We had no radios. We had no warm clothes. So the reality was, while we would probably stay alive for five or six hours, the next morning, all they'd find would be eight frozen bodies in that lifeboat if we weren't all thrown out.

And for you, it must have been, you're like, God, I just wanted to get away from this. I wanted to take a cruise. And here you are just giving it back to me tenfold, it seems, or twofold. You know, it's crazy, Mike. It was getting darker and darker. And once it was dark, and even I, in my optimism, just couldn't see a way out. And the planks of the lifeboat were beginning to, not crack, but you could hear them bending.

because now the seas were something close to 30 feet, 25, 30 feet. So I did a strange thing. I was not a religious person, but I looked up and I tried to pray. And very quickly, my prayer turned into an angry bleat.

Like, what the hell, man? What the hell, man? What the hell? Exactly, Mike. I said, what the hell? I'm screaming this at God or whatever the absolute was, whatever it was out there. And I got a reply. The voice said something like this. Stop BSing me. You either commit yourself to a life of service right now. And if you do, you'll get out of this. If you don't, well, as you will know,

you'll be dead. So I look up into the teeth of this storm and I say quietly, okay. The instant I did that, the Coast Guard cutter about well, comes crashing through the storm, heading right for us. I mean, it would have cut us in two if the lookout had not seen us. After the break, we'll hear more from John and Mallory about their rescue and the aftermath.

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And we're back with John and Mallory. But first, John, you were rescued. And then there was still three days where you didn't see each other. But was there any news of what happened to your daughter? Was there any information at all for you? I was on the Coast Guard cutter, which returned to its base in Sitka, Alaska. Mallory was in Valdez, Alaska. And it took a day or so to sort everything out.

We were both flown separately down to Seattle-Tacoma Airport. There was a picture that made the front pages of newspapers all over the country of Mallory throwing herself in my arms and me giving her a huge hug after those three days apart because it was a very intense time. Yeah, I bet it was intense. But let's talk about the different stories. So, Mal, you saw your dad disappear into the ocean as you were headed out of there in a helicopter. Yes.

John, you were in the boat, had a tough time, but at least you knew Mallory was safe. Mal, did you know what happened to your father or how long did it take you to understand that he was safe?

You know, I had no idea. However, I don't think I would have gotten so easily into that basket if I hadn't been assured that he was going to be on the next helicopter right behind me. And so maybe there was a little bit of adult lying to me in that moment just to give me that assurance so I wasn't too worried. And when you two were reunited, tell me about the emotions you're feeling.

Yeah, for me, I'm just exhausted. But I can't sleep at all because everyone, all of my family is trying to track me down and calling to just, you know, be like, oh, my God, you're alive.

And so when I finally get to Seattle, the first person I see coming off that plane is my dad. And I absolutely, I will never forget that moment of running into your arms. And it really is. It's kind of a priceless moment when you think about those good photographers who are able to catch that moment. But there is this sweet photo of me just in this

amazing bear hug. And it is the photo that made it all over the country. And it's probably one of my most prized possessions. I think when they say, if your house is burning and you're only going to take a couple things, that photo is one of them for sure. It's so incredible that everyone survived and there could have been a lot of opportunity for things to go sideways. I guess, John, what did all this teach you?

I guess it was the incredible importance of having meaning in one's life, personal meaning in one's life, something that really makes sense at an absolute core part of your soul, something that you guide your life by. And it has to be the right meaning to really sustain you. You just can't back off. You have to take the risk. And you've alluded to that effect. I think this whole series or program is centered on that.

And so I came back to New York. I had met by then a remarkable woman named Ann Medlock, a freelance writer and editor. And Ann had started an organization called the Giraffe Heroes Project.

And it wasn't about animals. It was about people sticking their necks out, hence the metaphor giraffes. Telling stories of people behaving heroically is the best way to get other people to behave heroically. You're right, John, because risk is unavoidable. So you might as well learn to dance with it, right? And understand it and make good choices. But you can't live life with no risk. Absolutely. And that's not to say that you're never unafraid. That's stupid.

I get afraid a lot. Everybody does. And it's like Mallory and I were both scared, no question about it. But we both, I think, performed pretty damn well through this whole crisis. But about two months afterward, we're back in New York and it's at night and I hear Mallory uncharacteristically crying in her bedroom, sobbing.

And so, of course, I go in there and ask her what's going on, what's happening. She said that I was thinking about the Princeton Dam, and I'm really realizing I could have died out there. I think the risk finally caught up with her, and she just had to have a good cry and get through it. And we talked and talked that evening, and of course, subsequently, about fear and risk and how much we love each other, how much we depended upon each other during the crisis.

And quite frankly, how much it changed our lives and brought us closer. There's no question that there's a special bond between Mallory and myself forged by the Princeton Dam incident. I mean, how could there not be? You both went through an extremely difficult and traumatic event. But I guess you realize in situations like that, that fearlessness isn't a lack of fear. It's just action in the face of fear, knowing what you have to do, doing it, getting into game mode and making it happen.

With Mal, so obviously you were saying you count the lifeboats when you go on a ferry now, but how else has it affected your life, do you think, since the event? Yeah, I think, you know, oftentimes people want to know how you survived an event, but really the more important question is how you integrated back into your life.

I absolutely emerged out of that trauma with a sense of urgency about absolutely taking life by the belt buckles. I climbed Mount Rainier at age 15, and then I got into filmmaking, so making films kind of with a social message, a lot of environmental impact films. So I definitely feel like the experience of knowing that you could have lost your life and instead of living a safe life,

It led me on a path of wanting to take more risks. And as dad said, you've been put here for a reason. Make good use of it. Be of service. Do something important with your time.

I have to say, the only thing that I regret is that I don't think Dad and I can get in a boat now without getting terribly seasick. That's true. It's got to be as big as an aircraft carrier before I'll get on board. Well, John and Mallory Graham, thank you so much for joining us today on Against the Odds. Likewise, our pleasure. Reliving all these events is always remarkable, so thank you for the opportunity. Thank you.

This is the final episode of our series Fire at Sea Cruise Ship Rescue. Thanks so much to our guests, John and Mallory Graham. Thanks also to Stephen Corcoran, who advised us on this series. To learn more about this event, we recommend his book, None Were Lost, The

The Prince and Dame Fire and Rescue. I'm your host, Mike Corey. This episode was produced by Polly Stryker. Interview episode producer is Peter Arcuni. Audio engineer is Sergio Enriquez. Production coordinator is Desi Blaylock. Series produced by Matt Almos, Alida Rozanski, and Emily Frost. Managing producer is Matt Gant. Senior managing producer is Ryan Lohr.

Senior producer is Andy Herman. Executive producers are Jenny Lauer Beckman, Stephanie Jens, and Marsha Louis for Wondery. Welcome to the Offensive Line. You guys, on this podcast, we're going to make some picks, talk some s**t, and hopefully make you some money in the process. I'm your host, Annie Agarne.

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