Deep Dive
Shownotes Transcript
Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Scamfluencers early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or Apple Podcasts. Sachi, how much attention are you paying to professional sports? I pay attention when I think it serves me.
when I can bandwagon effectively when the outfits are cute. You know, I saw you bandwagon as a Raptors head. You should see me in Brooklyn. I am relentless about Toronto teams in Brooklyn. It's all I have, you know?
Well, what I learned with this episode is that I finally get why people are so invested in what happens behind the scenes in sports. I mean, to compare it to something familiar to us, it is kind of like the Real Housewives, but the stakes are higher. And I know that seems impossible, but just wait. Oh, see, now I'm invested. It's the afternoon of April 19th, 2021 at a massive convention center on the banks of Lake Geneva.
A tall, lean man hunches over his laptop. He's in his 50s with buzzed brown hair. His name is Alexander Shevarin, and he's working on a speech he's already revised four times.
Sheffrin is super accomplished and a little intimidating. He's a lawyer by trade and has a black belt in karate. He once served as a soldier for his home country of Slovenia and actually saw combat. But now he's got a high-profile job that's about to put him on a different kind of front line. He's a president of the Union of European Football Association, otherwise known as UEFA, which means he's in charge of Europe's biggest football competition, the Champions League.
Sheffrin is here in Switzerland for UEFA's annual meeting. This is usually a pretty standard press conference. But this time, he's in the eye of an international shitstorm. Here's how Sky News reported the story. Six Premier League clubs are expected to be part of plans for a breakaway European Super League. In response, the Premier League have claimed the league would destroy the dreams of clubs across the continent and undermine the appeal of the entire game.
Sheffrin knows that if these dozen teams break away from UEFA, they'll take their money and their TV deals with them. And the remaining teams likely won't be able to survive.
If he doesn't find a way to nuke the Super League, he might be presiding over the end of European football as he knows it. And he's taking this all very personally. Not just because it threatens his position as UEFA president in the sport of football itself, but also because the man leading the breakaway Super League is one of his best friends.
This seems primed for real housewives drama. Is someone going to throw a glass of wine? I mean, maybe. I told you, it's kind of girl shit. All right. Shefrin walks into a cavernous meeting room at the Geneva Center full of his colleagues and media members. He sits down in front of a blue backdrop with the word respect repeated across it. He's wearing a dark blue suit and a matching tie. His rectangular glasses sit perched at the end of his nose.
His intense blue eyes dart between his printed speech and the crowd in front of him. He knows the whole world is expecting him to give a professional, measured response. But here's what he says instead. I cannot stress more strongly at this moment, UEFA and the footballing world stand united against the disgraceful,
Chevron is pissed. After giving his speech, he knows he has a very limited window to save football. He's about to go into combat in an all-out war over the spirit of the game.
To succeed, he'll need the help of fans, players, and even European royalty. From Wondery, I'm Sarah Hagee. And I'm Saatchi Cole. And this is Scamfluencers. Attention, I'm working out.
This is not the kind of story we normally cover. There's not a big, complicated heist or Ponzi scheme to unpack. But what makes it so scammy to me is that it's all about unbridled greed and out-of-control influence, which ends up causing global drama. This is a story about how international football brings people together. It's a story about how international football
Especially when a bunch of rich assholes betray the spirit of the game for the sake of a massive cash grab. I'm calling this one the Super League that wasn't. Sheffrin's bestie is Andrea Agnelli. But way before these two ever knew each other, Andrea is a grieving young man in Italy.
It's the late 1990s, and Andrea is taking a walk with his dad. He's in his early 20s, acne-ed and scrawny, with puffy hair and an epic unibrow. Sachi, here's a photo of him from around this time. He's very floppy-haired. He looks like a Muppet Timothy Chalamet. Yeah, he kind of does. Like a Grover-Timothy crossover. Well, Andrea is living in a world few of us can relate to.
He comes from a northern Italian dynasty. They're basically the Kennedys of Italy. His great-grandfather founded Fiat, and his dad was previously the president of Juventus Football Club.
The Agnelli family actually owns a team. Juventus wears black and white uniforms, and their name means youth in Latin. They're like the full-of-themselves Yankees, while their crosstown rival, Torino FC, is like the working-class Mets. And these are baseball references, Sachi, which I know you know because you're a big Toronto Blue Jays fan, right? Go Jays. Yankees suck. ♪
But not everything is easy for Andrea. The day he and his dad go for this walk is one of the hardest days of his life. His older brother, Giovanni Alberto, has just passed away from stomach cancer. He was only 33. Andrea and his father, silent with grief, finally return to their home. Before they go inside, his dad stops on the stoop. He looks Andrea in the eyes and says, this means more responsibility for you.
Responsibility to the family becomes Andrea's guidepost. Over the next decade or so, he throws himself into learning the family businesses, plural. He works at Ferrari, Fiat, and the family's holding company. Then, in 2010, Andrea gets his biggest role yet. He follows in his father's footsteps and takes over as the president of Juventus Football Club. ♪
Andrea is 34 years old at this point, not much older than his brother when he died. And this is a huge defining moment for him. Even though Juventus has a history of winning, it's been on a downswing lately. A lot of that has to do with the refereeing scandal the club was implicated in and the ripple effects have been massive. But Andrea sees his new role as an opportunity, not just as a chance.
not just to turn the team around, but to prove himself to his family once and for all.
Sarah, I want to feel safe in rooting for this man, but I feel like I can't because with the show, you never know. Can you tell me if I can root for him? I mean, listen, this is a crazy amount of pressure. I'll let you imagine how it plays out. Okay. Andrea wants to make sure Juventus is at the level of the other mega popular clubs in European football, in gameplay and in brand recognition. Almost as soon as he takes control of the team, they start winning again.
But Andrea doesn't want to just win. He also wants Juventus to become a household name. Over the next several years, the team builds a flashy new stadium, a high school for sports and sciences, and a public medical center, all named after Juventus. The team unveils a splashy new logo in 2017, and kids start wearing black and white J's on their shoes.
Andrea has done an impressive job raising Juventus' profile. He's well regarded in the country and in the football scene. But Andrea sets his sights even higher. He wants to win Europe's biggest competition, the Champions League. By the mid-2010s, Andrea has gotten Juventus back to the top of the Italian league. But year after year, they flame out of UEFA's Champions League tournament.
This is the creme de la creme of soccer tournaments. It's held every year and it features the best teams from across all of Europe.
European countries all have their own domestic football leagues, and these leagues include tons of competition tiers. Think of the Champions League as the very top of this tier. Getting in isn't just a matter of local pride, it has huge financial implications too. The teams that compete in the Champions League split a pot of about $2 billion, with the winning club taking home almost $80 million of that.
Decades ago, teams were owned by local businessmen or wealthy members of the community. But those days are gone. Over the last two decades, the biggest European football clubs have all been bought by foreign investors. Now, the most popular teams are more than just neighborhood clubs. They're huge international brands. Russian oligarchs, American investors and hedge funds, and Qatari emirs all own football teams.
And these new owners spend huge amounts of money to buy the best, most famous players. International football doesn't have any kind of salary cap, so the teams with owners willing to spend bonkers money to buy the best players just keep winning. And the smaller teams have to spend more and more to try to keep up or risk falling into obscurity or bankruptcy. It's a meritocracy. Yeah, it's like having a rich dad. Yeah.
Well, Andrea's team, Juventus, makes it all the way to the Champions League finals in 2015 and 2017, but they end up losing both times. A year later, they suffer an especially painful loss in the quarterfinal. Real Madrid destroys Juventus, beating them 3-0.
Their star forward, Cristiano Ronaldo, scores a goal so impressive that it makes even the Juventus fans cheer. Real Madrid goes on to win it all for the third year in a row. And Andrea's team misses out on the Champions League title again.
Finally, Andrea accepts that his team will never beat Ronaldo. And if they can't beat him, they may as well recruit him. So Andrea does just that. It costs the team more than $350 million, massively inflating its budget. Andrea is betting that Ronaldo will help them win the Champions League, but it's a big gamble.
He starts to wonder if there's another way to ensure Juventus' success. And he comes up with a bold plan that will secure its finances and its future. But it would also change international football forever. If he has any hope of pulling it off, he's got to get some big guns on his side. Luckily, he knows just where to turn.
It's early March 2019, almost a year after Juventus signs Ronaldo. Alexander Sheffrin, the UEFA president, travels to Nyon, Switzerland. He walks into the headquarters of UEFA, as he's done many times before. He's there to meet with Andrea to discuss the future of football.
Sheffrin and Andrea have been working closely together ever since Andrea was elected chairman of the European Club Association in 2017. But their relationship goes far beyond just their careers. Andrea actually asked Sheffrin to be godfather to his daughter. Sheffrin accepted and was one of the small handful of people to attend the baptism at the Vatican.
But just like a small local hang, right? Yeah, it was tiny, tiny, tiny. Like people don't even know about it. So niche. Well, at this meeting in Switzerland, Andrea's pitching his audacious plan to change football and protect Juventus' money. European domestic leagues are structured so the best performing teams get promoted to higher tiers, whereas the lowest scoring teams get relegated to lower tiers.
Teams at the highest tiers get more money from TV deals, can afford to bring on better players, and have more brand recognition. And ultimately, the best teams in every domestic league get to compete in the Champions League. But what Andrea's proposing to his friend would do away with all promotions and relegations. ♪
He tells Sheffrin that clubs with a global fan base like Juventus are a huge deal for the sport. Fans want to see these clubs compete in the Champions League. So what if some of the most popular clubs could just always be admitted without having to qualify? These clubs bring in tons of fans and they spend tons of money to improve the product on the field. Shouldn't they be rewarded?
Sheffrin agrees. Together, he and Andrea come up with a plan to increase the number of games in the Champions League while decreasing the number of games in the domestic league. They even go so far as to guarantee spots for certain clubs. They're excited by the progress they've made, and they plan to present their proposal at the UEFA conference two months later. But when they do, there's immediate outrage. ♪
The smaller teams and domestic leagues are furious at the suggestion, and they're most upset with Sheffrin. He's supposed to represent all football clubs, even the ones who play in lower tiers and have less money. Those clubs would be left behind under his plan. And letting certain clubs qualify for competition would go against the system of promotion and relegation, which has always been central to the spirit of the game.
Okay, so what is it about the system of promotion and relegation that's important here? To me, it sounds like it's all about the drama, you know? Like, you have these teams that are maybe not as well-funded or have these star players that technically do have a shot to rise to the top. And other teams that, you know, are doing amazingly and maybe have these, like, star players that can...
go lower in these rankings. So that is why they're getting so pissed off because it's getting rid of that element altogether. It's creating something that is really just for the people who have the most money to spend. Right. And so Sheffrin changes his tune. He tells the owners that the proposed plan is dead. The European football world rejoices for the most part, but Andrea feels like he's been let down by his friend.
He was counting on this extra money to help his club as its budget gets bigger and bigger every year. Now that Sheffrin is fully against his scheme, Andre has left with growing concerns about Juventus' ability to survive long-term. His family's team and legacy are in danger of folding under his watch.
It's late 2020, about a year after the proposal that went nowhere. Things are not going well for Andrea. The pandemic has put football on hold. Revenues are way down. And Ronaldo hasn't lived up to the hype. Plus, Andrea's still pissed at Sheffrin for not backing him up. But then he gets good news from out of the blue. Real Madrid's president, Florentino Perez, says he wants to talk.
Florentino is a Spanish businessman and former politician. He's got gray hair, wears silver glasses, and has the breezy arrogance of a rich guy who hardly ever hears no. He helped Real Madrid become one of the wealthiest and most popular football clubs on earth after he signed global superstars like Ronaldo and David Beckham.
Florentino says he liked the idea Andrea proposed to Sheffrin. And actually, he has a similar plan to ensure the financial future of Real Madrid. He wants to form a closed super league that would resemble American sports leagues, where the same teams compete every year and share profits. No more promotion, no more relegation. More money shared between fewer clubs. And Florentino says that he wants to cut out UEFA entirely.
Andre is afraid Juventus is going to go broke, and he's still pissed at Sheffrin. So he agrees to work with Florentino on this new Super League. He's finally found the best way to win. Join a league where you can't lose.
I didn't know that was an option. I didn't know I could just like only participate in things where I cannot lose. That's what happens when you're super rich. You can live in a world you create. Over the next few months, Andrea and Florentino work on the plan in secret. They secure $4.2 billion in backing from J.P. Morgan. Andrea discreetly reaches out to the owners of other world-famous football clubs to pitch them on the plan too.
By April 2021, Andrea and Florentino's dream of a Super League is looking more and more real.
The only problem is Sheffrin. Technically, Andrea and Sheffrin are still working together on proposed changes to the Champions League. Sheffrin asks Andrea to review the proposal. Andrea can't give away that he's working on the Super League while its details are still being worked out. So he tells Sheffrin that he and the European Club Association approve of Sheffrin's new plan.
Andrea doesn't realize it, but that lie is about to kick off 48 hours of football chaos. Summer should be fun, not financially stressful. So if you're looking to build your credit with everyday purchases this summer, do it with the Chime Secured Credit Builder Visa credit card. Yep. With no annual fees or interest, Chime is a great tool to help build credit using your own money. And they have features like fee-free overdraft up to $200 with SpotMe.
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Just use the code SCAMPOD. That's happymammoth.com, M-A-M-M-O-T-H, with the code SCAMPOD to get 15% off your entire first order. It's Saturday, April 17th, 2021, and Shefran is leaving his house in Slovenia to make the eight-hour drive to his UEFA office in Switzerland.
As he's walking out the door, he gets a call. It's the president of Spain's domestic league, and he says he just heard explosive news. Twelve of Europe's most important football teams are planning to break away and form their own exclusive league. Then his source drops a bomb. He says the man behind the Super League is Andrea Agnelli. Schäferin gets into his Audi and calls Andrea.
He wants to hear that these rumors are false. Just yesterday, Andrea told him that the big teams were happy with the latest round of Champions League proposals. And now he learns that Andrea has been planning a coup, which must have been in the works for weeks, months, maybe even years.
Sheffrin is stunned. Immediately, he understands that a league like that would dominate TV rights deals, sap the world's best talent, and spell the end of the Champions League.
Shefrin calls again and again and again and never gets through. Finally, he texts Andrea's wife. And eventually, Shefrin gets his friend on the phone. Andrea reassures him that these rumors are false. Shefrin is beyond relieved and asks Andrea to help him out by releasing a joint statement. Andrea agrees. He says to send him a draft and he'll sign it.
Shefrin's driving, so he puts his people on it. They get it over to Andrea within the hour, but Andrea says he wants to make a few edits. He'll send it back in 15 minutes. 15 minutes go by, then 30, now an hour. And when Shefrin finally calls Andrea, there's no answer. His phone is off, and that's when it hits Shefrin. He's been played.
Around the same time, football superfan Roger Bennett is watching a match when he gets a call from someone who knows all about the Super League. And he freaks out. Like us, Raj also co-hosts a Wondery podcast. But unlike ours, his is all about European football. And he's a fan of the Super League.
It's called Men in Blazers. Raj is a lifelong fan of Everton Football Club based in Liverpool. They aren't a team that wins a ton of matches, but Everton is everything to him. Here's what he told us in an interview. What is special about being an Everton fan? I mean, it's kind of like what is special about air or water. You need them both. They just sustain you. Ultimately, the team you choose is just a prism through which you look at the world.
The beauty of football is that even a small team without billions of dollars can maybe one day do something great. But to Raj, a closed league made up of only the wealthiest clubs would mean that one day for his team will never come. The news hasn't officially broken yet, so right now it's just a rumor. But Raj says he's already feeling devastated by it.
It was like in a Bond movie where the baddie reveals their ultimate plan. You can't get away with this. You're going to steal all the clouds and own the sun. You can't take the sun from us. We'll all, what? We'll all die. He's like, oh, it's already done. Nobody can stop it.
Comparing this to Mr. Burns' son blocking machine also helps me understand better. Yeah, it really is just a villainous thing to do. And the next afternoon, Raj's worst suspicions are confirmed. The British newspaper The Times breaks the story. Five major English clubs plan on joining a breakaway Super League. Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Manchester United and Tottenham.
When football pundit Gary Neville finds out about the Super League, he's dumbfounded. Gary used to play for Manchester United and is now a much-beloved commentator. He gets the news while broadcasting live during a game and says he can't even concentrate. Afterwards, he goes on Sky Sports to yell about it. Stop this happening. It's pure greed. They're imposters.
The owners of this club, the owners of Liverpool, the owners of Chelsea, the owners of Manchester City, they're nothing to do with football in this country. There are 100-odd years of history in this country from fans that have lived and loved these clubs, and they need protecting. Raj watches in astonishment as the clubs themselves confirm the news with a sixth English team, Manchester City, joining the ranks.
The 12 teams involved in the Super League release a joint statement. They say their new model will, quote, provide significantly greater economic growth for football. It's vague, it's impersonal, and it's greedy as hell. The subtext is clear. The owners think this is a foregone conclusion. They've won. Raj remembers the next day feeling like a funeral in the football press.
It was harrowing. We're all just cruelly exposed with nowhere to hide, no defenses, no leverage. Just fans suddenly feeling like from being passionate stakeholders, they realized they were just innocent victims, casualties. I can't believe I feel this strongly still about it. But reliving it is hard.
At this moment, most fans feel like they're waking up from a nightmare and there's nothing they can do about it. But Sheffrin hopes he can still change things. All he has to do is deliver the best speech of his life. Before the press conference starts, Sheffrin is frantically rewriting his speech. He's trying to think of the right approach to take. He's angry. He's upset. He feels betrayed and he decides to not hold back.
When he delivers a speech from the beginning of the episode, where he calls the Super League disgraceful and self-serving, it goes viral instantly. By my opinion, this idea is a spit in the face of all football lovers and our society as well. Later that day, Sheffrin says, quote,
He's obviously talking about his former bestie, Andrea. He goes on to call Andrea the biggest disappointment of all. Sheffrin's fiery language is like a starting pistol for football fans. They're ready to fight for the sport they love. Around the same time, Liverpool is supposed to play Leeds.
Hundreds of fans of both teams gather outside of Leeds Stadium to protest Liverpool joining the Super League. They burn a Liverpool jersey. A saxophonist plays ABBA's "Money, Money, Money" on repeat outside of the hotel where Liverpool players are staying. A plane flies overhead with the banner #SayNoToTheEuropeanSuperLeague. Meanwhile, on the pitch, Leeds players are warming up in shirts that say "Football is for the fans."
I love when Europeans get mad. They get so saucy. They are like, oh, I'm mad? Everyone will know. The team owners are rattled. The Super League expected fans of other teams would be pissed, but they didn't expect to be facing literal riots from their own fans. And this is when the club owners really start to panic.
It hasn't even been 24 hours since the Super League was officially announced, and already the whole world seems to be against it. Boris Johnson, the notoriously pro-business prime minister, denounces the Super League. Even though he's been in the Super League for a long time,
Even Prince William tweets about it. Mind reading it, Sachi? He wrote, I share the concerns of fans about the proposed Super League and the damage it risks causing to the game we love.
W. I think it's nice he signs off on his tweets just in case. Like, how do we know it was him? How do we know he wrote it? Well, I mean, tweets not marked W are for management. Right. So this came from his heart. Protest is mounting. And thanks to social media, fan outrage is spreading like wildfire. Now the whole world is watching to see if fans can save the game they love.
It's Tuesday, April 20th, about 36 hours after the official Super League announcement. Sheffrin stands on stage at the UEFA conference about to give another speech. He's heard rumors that some teams regret their decision to break away. And this is his chance to change some hearts and minds. Instead of addressing his audience, he talks directly to the owners. Come to your senses.
Not out of love for football, because I imagine some of you don't have much of that, but out of respect for those who bleed themselves dry so that they can go to the stadium to support their team and want the dream to be kept alive. Sheffrin is extending a strongly worded olive branch. He lets the teams know they can still abandon the Super League and return to UEFA. He only needs one domino to fall.
A few hours later, English soccer fans get another chance to make their displeasure known. Chelsea, one of the Super League teams, is scheduled to play a home game. But as the team bus rolls up to the stadium, they're stopped.
Not by traffic cops, but by a swell of fans. They've flooded the street and blocked the bus' path so that players can't get out. And all the while, they're chanting something written special for today. The bus sits, stuck in the sea of fans dressed in Chelsea blue, holding signs and chanting in unison.
Then the vibe shifts. Reports start emerging that Chelsea plans to back out of the Super League. Fans pull out their phones to read the news for themselves. That's when it sinks in. Your team is safe. The crowd goes wild, roaring with joy and pride. Oh shit, power to the people. They did it.
Not long after this, another team, Manchester City, makes it official. They're withdrawing, and the dominoes fall from there. By that evening, all six British teams have confirmed they're leaving the Super League less than 48 hours after announcing they were joining it. The fans are ecstatic. The protest turns into a celebration. The tide is turning in their favor. And the Super League is falling apart before it ever even kicked off.
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The next morning, Andrea waves the white flag. He admits that the Super League can't go on without the British teams. Andrea spent a decade establishing an air of authority and a winning record on the pitch, but now he looks arrogant. Worse, incompetent. Sachi, I want to show you a piece of street art that appears on a wall in Rome. Can you describe it?
Yeah. It's Andrea holding a soccer ball and he's stabbing it. With a gold knife. With a gold knife. And it's all the air is slowly being let out. I know, dead in the eyes too. By the end of the week, the Super League is technically still around, but only three teams are left. Barcelona, Real Madrid and Juventus.
A month later, Andrea plays the only card he has left, issuing a statement accusing UEFA of coercion. But it's too little, too late. Andrea has become a punchline. His team is more than $200 million in the red. And his former friend, Shefrin, has completely cut off all ties with him. I mean...
Yeah. I would not stay friends with you. Absolutely not. UEFA issues punishments to the teams who joined, then bailed on the Super League. They have to publicly acknowledge their wrongdoing. And the teams also agreed to collectively donate about $15 million to the game of football in Europe. In England, the six defecting teams also signed what are essentially loyalty clauses—
promises to not try and break away in the future. If anyone tries it again, they'll face steep fines and points deductions that can keep them out of the Champions League tournament.
At this point, Andrea has to deal with more than just fines. Italian league officials start digging into Juventus, wondering if he's hiding anything else up his sleeve. Turns out, there's a lot up there. The club used a tax strategy to artificially inflate the value of a player to increase the company's revenue on paper. Investigators also discover that during the pandemic, when revenues were plummeting, Juventus told shareholders that they had to cut players' salaries. But they
But they secretly pay them back at a later date. Andrea's reputation is in tatters. His screw-ups are compounding and his football career is finished. By November 2022, he resigns in disgrace.
But just because football is safe for Mondrea doesn't mean it's entirely safe. Florentino Perez, the president of Real Madrid, continues to work on a breakaway plan. Threats of a Super League still loom on the horizon. Sheffrin was just elected to a third term as UEFA's president in April 2023, but he's not exactly jumping to help less wealthy teams out. Instead, he's defending big spenders as a way to grow the game.
He's even implied that smaller teams are just jealous. This is so Housewives. I love it. Anytime someone like tries to deter criticism by saying like other people are just jealous of me. Yeah, I mean, it's pretty foolproof, you know, like someone says you're jealous. You can't be like, no, I'm not. It's so embarrassing. There's no winning.
Well, the Super League was built by pure greed, and it failed because of it. The fans won this victory. Regular people who came together and demanded respect. And since his team, Everton, will still have a chance to make the Champions League...
I'll let Raj have the last word on this scam. It takes a lot to unite every single fan of every single English team, the British media, the British government, and you just saw a torrent of flexing muscles, of fan power, and I'd say it gave me such incredible joy.
Sachi, I feel like this is one of the best examples of how every kind of drama in the world is Real Housewives to us. Everything can be boiled down to a Real Housewives franchise. Yes, there is not one conflict, geopolitical or sports related or interpersonal that is not actually just the Housewives. All roads lead back to the Housewives. Absolutely.
You know, I'm not going to lie. I wasn't sure how much I would care about sports in this sense, but I got pretty fired up. When I continued to learn more, I was just kind of like, wait a second, they can't do that to regular people. They can't do that to us. Are you a sports fan now? Are you a soccer fan? Did this convert you? I wouldn't say I'm a fan in the sense that I will follow this at all. I mean, I will always passively enjoy watching a sport.
But I do think that it really put the importance of sports into perspective in a way that maybe I might have discounted in the past of just like the idea of how much it encompasses in people's lives. Yeah, it's interesting, too, because the people who wanted to destroy it are also the people who claim to be fans. So their greed will supersede the fan in them.
Yeah, and it's funny because I remember kind of vaguely seeing this on Twitter, but not looking further into it because I was like, this is above me. I do not understand it. But it is crazy that this lasted like two days, basically. You know, Andrea's scheming for the Super League for so long. And it's also funny because the Super League doesn't necessarily function differently than how we know sports in North America. Yeah, I mean...
I think there's a lot of things that if like the Brits inherited from the States, they'd be like, this is broken. This is bad. This is broken and bad. Yeah. Do you think Andrea and Shefrin will ever patch things up as bros? Do you think there will ever? He is his kid's godchild. You know what I mean?
here's what I'll say. In my experience, men and their friends will have like one terrible fight and it'll happen in their late 30s or early 40s.
And then what happens is they don't talk for like a couple of years and they either one day just decide to start speaking again without actually addressing any of the core issues that were in their friendship or they never speak again. So there's a great chance that these two somehow like join forces again and we hear about them and they never really discuss what actually happened between the two of them or they will never utter each other's names again and die together.
sad and angry at their friend forever. Are you writing a novel about this or something? No, I just know it. I just know already. And when have I ever been wrong about men? Not once. No, I think that's very, very accurate. But, you know, it's very rare that I feel like for a lot of male friendships, there is like something that really makes everything explode. Yeah.
So this is like why it cut me so deep. I was like, it takes a lot for guys to stop talking in my experience. It takes a lot for them to be like, you know, not to be whatever people call us in our reviews. But I just think it's just like a different way that they're socialized. But I do think that, I don't know.
I don't know. At the end of the day, Chevron still kind of represents the interests of rich people. So I think they will always be able to patch something up because they're both rich guys who love sports, you know? Wealth is a beautiful unifier, even for men who hate each other. Wow, that's beautiful. I'm going to put that on a Hallmark card.
This is The Super League That Wasn't. I'm Sarah Hagee. And I'm Sachi Cole. If you have a tip for us on a story that you think we should cover, please email us at scamfluencers at wondery.com. We use many sources in our research. A few that were particularly helpful were How the Super League Fell Apart,
Kyle Rabi wrote this episode.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Kate Young and Olivia Richard are our series producers. Our senior story editor is Rachel B. Doyle. Our senior producer is Ginny Bloom. Our executive producers are Janine Cornelow, Stephanie Jens, Jenny Lauer Beckman, and Marshall Louis for Wondery. Wondery.
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