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Sachi, you're someone who I feel is kind of full of these really horrifying facts. Thank you. So I need to know, what is your favorite unsolved mystery? I have several. Obviously. But for the sake of your squeamish tummy, I'm really fascinated by all those planes that disappeared.
Remember that Malaysian airplane? That's a really good one. Yeah, like I'm really interested in what happened. And I know it probably just plummeted into the ocean or whatever. But like, I would like to know where and how. In the same vein, I'm going to think about the submarine implosion for the rest of my life, even though I know what happened.
Yeah, I think those are really good ones. I guess I don't really have one. I guess I was really into the Zodiac Killer for a while, but that's played out, you know? Yeah, I mean, at this point, the Zodiac, it's like Jack the Ripper. Who cares, you know? Yeah, we've moved on. Well, today we have a real doubleheader of an episode. Not only is this about a very wild financial scam, but it's one that's wrapped in a mystery that is still unsolved.
It's Friday, November 13th, 2020. It's a hot, muggy day, and three police officers are standing outside of a mansion in Sydney, Australia. They've just gotten a call from a man named Anthony Colletti. He told them his wife, Melissa, has been missing for roughly 28 hours. But Anthony declined to come to the police station to file an official missing persons report. And he rejected the police's offer to come to his house because, according to the police, he said he had too much work.
It all seems very fishy, so the cops decide to show up at his house anyway. When Anthony answers the front door, the officers are hit with a blast of cool air. They take note of Anthony's appearance. He's in his late 30s with sunglasses on top of his head and a soul patch. The police don't know much about his wife Melissa, but they do know she's a financial advisor. And judging by the fancy house, she must be pretty good at it. The cops sit down to talk with Anthony, and things quickly get weird.
Anthony tells them two different stories about where Melissa went. He fixates on strange details, like the fact that she didn't take any liquor with her. He's visibly sweating, even inside the air-conditioned house.
The lead officer thinks something's up and decides to get real with Anthony. Here's a recording from his body cam. Look, Anthony, I'll be honest with you. I'm a bit worried that you're not telling me the full story about what's going on. This is the full story, like I said. The story seems to be chopping and changing a little bit, and I'm concerned that you know something more. It's not the best policy, it's the honesty right now. Because we want to find out, I'm concerned where she is. I want to find where she is. I need you to tell me everything, and I need you to tell me the truth.
But Anthony doesn't offer any additional information, at least not anything helpful.
The officers eventually give up and leave the house. They think he's hiding something, but they don't have any evidence to prove it. And the officers are about to learn that this missing persons case is connected to something much bigger. Soon after their visit with Anthony, they discover that Melissa is at the center of a massive Ponzi scheme that siphoned off millions of dollars of other people's money. And her home was just raided by federal authorities who are trying to get back some of the money she stole.
When the story finally hits the news, Melissa Caddick will capture the attention of the entire Australian continent. From Wondery, I'm Sarah Hagee. And I'm Sachi Cole. And this is Scamfluencers.
If you're one of our Australian listeners, you probably already know about Melissa Caddick. But for everyone else, you're in for a story full of fancy vacations, matching tattoos, and a really gruesome mystery that still remains unsolved. This is Melissa Caddick, Trouble Afoot. Legend.
It's the mid-1990s in a sleepy, middle-class suburb of Sydney. Melissa Grimley is in her 20s, and she's still trying to figure out who she is and where she fits in. As a girl, she wanted to be a ballerina, but she was told she didn't have the right body type. She tried getting into business, but she wasn't very good at math. While Melissa figures out the next step in her career, she throws herself into a new relationship.
But this new boyfriend is a bust too. He charms Melissa, maxes out her credit cards, and runs off with her money.
It's a big setback, but Melissa is determined to keep going. She knows she's meant to be someone. She takes classes at a secretarial college and starts working at a roadside assistance company. But she gets furious when people describe her as a secretary. Eventually, Melissa gets a job as an assistant at an investment firm, and she makes an impression right away.
Her boss later says that, quote, her manicured presentation seemed suited to a job she aspired to rather than the job she had. Melissa tries really hard to be a boss there, not just with the way she dresses, because after a while, she gets fired for forging her boss's signature on checks. Well, listen, that's what it takes to be a girl boss.
By the late 90s, Melissa focuses on sculpting a new public image starting with her body. She begins working with a personal trainer. And by sheer luck, it turns out the trainer has another client who works at a company called Wise Financial Services. They have an opening for an office manager. And on paper, Melissa seems perfect for the job. After an introduction from the trainer, Melissa gets the gig.
Over the next two years, Melissa moves up in the company. She's very charming. Her boss later describes her as bubbly and super efficient. Pretty soon, she gets the job she's been dressing for, full-fledged financial planner. ♪
Around this time, Melissa's life really starts to take off. She meets Tony Caddick, an Englishman with light blue eyes and short cropped hair who works in construction. They fall in love and get married in April of 2000. And two years later, she makes a huge career leap. She takes out a $750,000 loan and buys a 25% stake in the company she works for, Wise Financial Services.
That makes her a partner at the firm, and a year later, she lands on the cover of Independent Financial Advisors magazine. The headline is, "A Wise Choice." Now that she's being photographed for magazine covers, Melissa kicks her fashion and beauty game into high gear. She wears fancier, flashier outfits. She hires a personal chef to help her slim down. She finds a new hairdresser she really likes and visits him regularly.
It's all part of building her brand as a successful financial advisor.
I was joking about her girlbossing, but she kind of is. This is like a very typical girlboss route. Yeah, she's got to look the part. She's got to look like she knows what she's doing. But Melissa also makes things hard for herself. In 2004, she starts telling her clients to invest in real estate and buy shares of individual companies. It's a direct violation of Wise's rule. They say financial advisors can only recommend managed investment funds, which are less risky.
Wise tells Melissa to follow the rules and stop giving out potentially unethical advice. This does not sit well with Melissa. She's furious about being reprimanded, and after a fight with her coworkers, she leaves. The company gives back her $750,000 investment on the condition that she sign a five-year non-compete.
Melissa has always had ambitions for her husband, and now she has nothing but time on her hands. She encourages Tony to attend law school. He graduates and gets his license to practice law in 2006, right before the birth of their son.
Three years later, Melissa and Tony buy a three-bedroom house in the suburbs of Sydney. The house is super modern and has an outdoor patio. It's close to both the city and Melissa's parents. But then Tony gets a job offer in England close to his parents. They decide to move to London but keep their house in Sydney. Melissa's got a fresh start. She's a new mom and her husband's got a great job. She's living the dream.
But before long, a new romance will blow up her life once again.
It's 2011 and Tony and Melissa have been living in England for over a year. Melissa isn't working, so there's a lot of pressure on Tony to support their family. But he knows it won't be like this forever. Melissa tells him that she wants to keep up her financial planning skills for when she's ready to get back in the game. She takes a couple of trips across Europe to attend trainings and conventions. As far as Tony can tell, things are going well. But one day, Tony gets a message from a friend.
Melissa is supposed to be at a conference in Switzerland, but this friend saw her in Paris going full PDA with another man. Tony investigates and discovers WhatsApp messages between Melissa and the other guy. His name is Anthony Colletti, and Melissa actually knows him from Sydney. He's her hairdresser. ♪
Oh my God, cheating with your hairdresser? That's devious. I can't believe I'm rooting for her. That's bold as hell. It's bananas. Well, as Tony reads the messages, he learns that not only are Melissa and Anthony having an affair, but she's been paying for Anthony to fly across the world with her.
When Melissa returns home, Tony confronts her. They have a big fight and Tony leaves to stay with his parents. A few days later, he returns to an empty house. Melissa has gone back to Sydney and she's taken their son with her. Tony is left to watch as his wife decides to reinvent herself yet again, this time at his expense. A few months later, Kate Horne pulls up to Melissa's house in Sydney.
Kate's soft-spoken, blonde, and has a bright smile. She's a disability worker, a single mother of two, and Melissa's oldest friend. They were childhood neighbors and have known each other since preschool. Walking up to the doorway, Kate admires Melissa's stylish slate gray home. There's the attached two-car garage, the balcony off the master bedroom, the pristine marble kitchen, and the private patio. Kate's soft-spoken, blonde, and has a bright smile.
But despite the lavish home, Melissa is undeniably going through a rough patch. Her marriage is in shambles, and now she's a single mother. Melissa fills Kate in on the absolute disaster of the past year or so. She tells Kate that once she got to her family's new home in England, she discovered Tony had lied to her. He didn't really have a job waiting for him. Melissa says he'd moved her there to isolate her. She says he'd moved her there to isolate her.
She describes Tony as a controlling, cheating, abusive narcissist. She says that she and her son fled England for their own safety. And Melissa doesn't just tell this story to Kate, she repeats it to everyone else in her life too.
Do we know if any of the things that Melissa is saying is true? Well, it's not until much later that Kate claims Melissa distorted the story to make it seem like she was the victim. At the time, Kate feels bad for her friend, but even still, it looks like Melissa is doing well for herself. She still has the huge house and she's come into a lot of money too, or at least that's a lie she tells Kate.
She claims she sold her stake in Wise Financial for a huge profit. To Kate, the story seems plausible. She fully believes in her friend's ability to make money, which might explain what happens next. Melissa tells Kate that she's opening her own financial firm. She reportedly says, quote, I'm starting a company for people in similar positions to you and me.
Melissa offers to invest Kate's retirement funds for her, and she'll only charge a tiny management fee since Kate is her friend. Kate spends some time thinking about it. A month later, she takes Melissa up on the offer. She hasn't done any research, but she doesn't need to. She thinks Melissa is a financial powerhouse, and Melissa has the publicity to prove it.
So Kate hands over her retirement accounts and eventually gives Melissa control over all of her investments. Kate's happy to help her friend launch her new business. But she doesn't know that Melissa's story of rising from the ashes is pure deception. She isn't Melissa's first client. She's her first mark. And Melissa is just getting started. ♪
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By 2013, Melissa's been back in Sydney about a year, and she's been steadily convincing her friends and family to invest with her new company, Molliver Proprietary Limited. There's just one problem. She's not legally allowed to work as a financial planner. Australian law requires her to have something called a financial services license number, but Melissa hasn't had one since she left Wise. And if she were to get caught advising clients without one, she could face jail time and a $20,000 fine.
But one day in June, Melissa sees something that makes her eyes light up. It's an email from the woman who manages her life insurance policy. To protect her privacy, let's call her Jane. Melissa met Jane about a decade earlier when Melissa was working at Wise. And now, Jane is emailing Melissa and her other clients to tell them she got a new financial services number.
She lists it right there in the email. Melissa decides to give Jane a call. They chat, and Melissa tells Jane about her new company. Then she makes her ask. She says she needs a favor. Could she work under Jane's financial services number?
Jane says she'll have to think about it. When she calls Melissa back, she tells her she doesn't think it's a good idea. It would be too much of a risk for her to supervise other financial advisors. She says Melissa should apply for her own license. Melissa is disappointed, but says she understands.
Melissa gets back to work. Later that same month, she sends out a financial services guide to one of her new Malibu investors, outlining the company's mission. Throughout the document, Melissa references the company's license number, which just so happens to be Jane's. Maybe she's someone who just feels like she's always getting away with stuff because I don't know why she would ask if she was going to just do it anyway, you know? Yeah, and we don't know for sure why Melissa just doesn't apply for her own license, but
We have a few guesses. For starters, she'd need two professional references from the past 12 months, which she probably doesn't have. She left Wise on really bad terms, and most of the work she's done since then has basically been off the books. She also needs to write out a business plan, which she doesn't really have. So Melissa decides that copy and pasting Jane's number is easier. Jane, of course, has no idea.
And none of Melissa's clients think to look up the number and make sure it actually belongs to her. There's no reason they would. They trust her. But that trust is going to turn out to be the biggest mistake of their lives. It's New Year's Eve 2013, and Melissa's throwing a party at her place. Kate's on the invite list, and Melissa's new bestie, Michelle Leslie, probably is too.
Michelle is a fit 40-something who started out as Melissa's personal chef, but quickly became her personal trainer, then a client. The dress code at the party is cocktail attire, which matches the location. A five-bedroom, five-bathroom house with a perfect view of the Sydney Harbour fireworks. Melissa just sold her other place in Sydney, and she's been renting this house for almost $3,000 a week.
When the guests arrive, they learn that it's not just a New Year's party. It's also Melissa's wedding. She's marrying Anthony. Yes, the hairdresser. And it is a lavish event. You know, I can't believe she's marrying the hairdresser, but I can also very much believe that she's marrying the hairdresser. I mean, it's look and snatch till death do them part, you know? Ugh.
Well, the wedding is just the start of the celebration. Melissa and Anthony are planning to spend the entire month of January on a ski trip to Aspen. The vacation costs about $80,000. ♪
Melissa's been getting away with such ridiculous spending by straight up stealing her clients' money. She convinces them that if they invest it with her, they'll get high returns. Some of her clients even empty their retirement accounts when Melissa tells them how much they can earn with her. Each client puts their money in an account specifically for Melissa to invest it.
But that account is just Melissa's personal piggy bank. To hide her fraud, she writes up fake investment reports showing returns of up to 30%. She literally copy and paste the logo of a trading company onto the document she gives clients, along with a made-up account number. She doesn't even include the right amount of digits.
I almost admire how lazy this is. It's so lazy. But, you know, you see a letterhead, you see a logo and you think,
It's all good. And, you know, Melissa's clients trust her and they're awed by their supposed returns. So they praise her as a financial genius, give her even more money, and introduce her to more potential clients who put their money right into Melissa's bank account. Anthony is staying busy as well. In addition to being a part-time hairdresser, he's also a part-time DJ. He has his own music company called Pursuit.
pause off productions. That's pause as in P-A-W-S. Here's a sample of one of his songs entitled Shifting Lanes. It's bad, Sarah. That was bad. I mean, it's like really, really bad. Yeah. To no surprise, Anthony's DJing career never really takes off, but the family is doing okay thanks to Melissa, who's stealing more money than ever.
In the spring of 2014, she and Anthony want to buy a house in Dover Heights, a swanky suburb of Sydney.
On paper, Melissa's net worth is $600,000. That's not nothing, but the house is worth $6 million. And she definitely wouldn't get approved for a loan. So Melissa shows the bank fake tax forms. They claim the money her clients have given her to invest is actually money they paid her as a consulting fee for her financial advice. She's forging documents in every direction. And it's working. ♪
The loan is approved and they buy the house. Melissa and Anthony start taking all sorts of extravagant vacations. They spend almost $40,000 on a short trip to New York. They pop over to Fiji. They even cut one of their trips to Aspen short and pivot to Whistler instead because the snow at Aspen just isn't up to Melissa's standards.
On one trip to Hawaii, Anthony and Melissa get matching tattoos. They're Chinese characters depicting Melissa's name, Anthony's name, and her son's name. That is one of the worst things I've ever heard. I know, you can't get worse than that. Meanwhile, Melissa keeps finding new marks connected to her existing clients. ♪
She also starts hitting up people she meets during her travels. Her so-called business is growing. And by 2020, she's a millionaire several times over. Now that she's conning the wealthy out of their mountains of cash, the possibilities are endless. But as skiers often find out, the higher you go, the harder you're likely to fall. ♪
It's August 2020, and Jane is sitting in the waiting room of a dentist's office. Jane is in her late 40s, about Melissa's age, with blonde hair, flawless skin, and pearly white teeth. She's a financial advisor who told Melissa she needed to get her own license number.
It's only a few months into the pandemic, and sitting in the waiting room, Jane is probably feeling a little on edge. But before her name is called to see the dentist, she hears something that makes her even more uneasy. She overhears one of the other patients in the waiting room saying, I'm investing with Melissa Caddick.
By this point, Jane has discovered that Melissa has stolen her license number, and she's livid. So Jane feels like she has to intervene. Over the last year, the board that oversees these licenses received two anonymous tips about Melissa stealing Jane's number. And we don't know for sure whether Jane filed both of these tips herself, but it seems like a pretty good guess. If Jane can prevent even one person from getting scammed in the meantime, she's
She's going to go for it. She interrupts a patient in the waiting room to ask if they could speak later in private. The woman agrees and informs Jane that she's invested $2.5 million with Melissa since the two met in Aspen about seven months earlier. Jane tells her to get her money out of Melissa's hands immediately.
Sachi, how would you try to get your money back in this situation? Crying? I mean, I would probably end up doing something illegal. Yeah, crimes or crying. Those are my two tactics for all uncomfortable situations. Well, after this chance encounter, the woman calls Melissa and says she's just found a property she wants to buy. She says she needs the money she invested with Melissa to close a deal.
Remarkably, Melissa returns all of the money along with about $300,000, which she says are profits from the investment. But in reality, this money is coming from other people's investments. And remember, a lot of these people are saving for retirement, so they likely won't notice that their money is gone, at least not right away.
This particular client has dodged a huge bullet. But like Jane, she doesn't want anyone to get caught up in this scheme. So she calls the regulatory board overseeing licenses, and by September 2020, they've formally launched an investigation into Melissa's finances. It doesn't take long for the government to gather enough evidence to get a search warrant for her home. Melissa might be fooling her friends and family, but she can't keep up this ruse much longer.
She's in for a rude awakening, literally. It's early in the morning on November 11th, 2020. Melissa sits in her kitchen looking over her schedule. Anthony and her son are at the granite counter eating cereal. There's a knock at the door, and when Melissa opens it, swarms of Australian federal police enter. They announce they'll be searching the house. They hand her a warrant and give her time to read it while her 14-year-old son gets ready for school.
Melissa watches as Anthony and her son disappear to get dressed for the day. Shit is going down. One of the agents wants to go up to Melissa's home office. Finders of client documents line the bookcases. When they ask her to open the office safe, Melissa pulls out a treasure trove of jewelry. Here's a recording from the body cam footage aired on 60 Minutes Australia. I'm Miss Canicolorini, particularly hard-bellied, hard-received.
It's a little hard to hear, but the officer asks her if there are any particularly high-value items there. And Melissa says they're all high-value. Ha!
Ah, listen, she's a bad guy. I get it. But that is a really baller response. Yeah. She's like, bitch, they're all expensive. She's like, everything I own is expensive. What do you want me to say? God bless her. Well, as Anthony leaves to take Melissa's son to school, he tells her, we'll be okay. You've done nothing wrong.
Once he's gone, the agents take everything. Melissa's jewelry, her designer clothes, her shoes. They inform her that her bank accounts have been frozen. By the time the officers leave, Melissa's dream house is an empty shell. Melissa is probably feeling like a shell of herself too. The very next day, she leaves to go for a run and never comes back.
A day after that, Anthony contacts the police to report a missing person. The police come and search the house looking for her. But Melissa can't be found anywhere. At least, not in one piece.
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When Michelle, Melissa's former personal trainer, first catches wind of Melissa's disappearance, she's probably worried about her. When she hears on the news that Melissa was being investigated for running a Ponzi scheme, she's understandably furious. Michelle had entrusted Melissa with all of her and her husband's savings. Now, she doesn't know if they'll be able to retire.
Michelle isn't the only victim worried about their future. The Australian government has alleged that Melissa has stolen more than $10 million from her clients. They don't know yet that the true amount of money she's stolen is likely at least three times this amount. They've launched land, air, and water rescue searches, requested security footage from the morning of her disappearance, and called on the public to report any information on the missing person.
But Melissa seems to have vanished as quickly and completely as the money she stole from her investors. Then, after three months of searching for her, the police say they're ready to make an announcement. A lot of people are watching and are probably shocked when the police deliver this gruesome twist during the press conference. I can now inform you that last Sunday, Sunday the 21st of February,
A shoe was located on the shoreline of the Bordana National Park south of Tathra. Within that shoe were the remains of a human foot. DNA from the foot was last night matched to DNA from Melissa Caddick's toothbrush.
Ah, that is so grisly and so brutal and not where I thought we were going today, Sarah. Yes, it is totally crazy. It really does shock everyone. And I mean, lots of people assume Alyssa is dead, but Michelle doesn't buy it.
she started to question everything about her former bestie. Here's what she later says to a reporter on 60 Minutes Australia. My first reaction is, it's only a foot. Where's the rest of the body? Is there cement evidence to say she's actually dead? She's capable of anything. This twist sparks a whole new frenzy of theories about Melissa's disappearance, and the entire nation becomes hooked.
By April 2022, the spectacle surrounding Melissa Caddick's scam has made its way all across Australia.
The true crime drama series Underbelly airs a miniseries based on Melissa's crimes and disappearance. That same month, the Sydney Morning Herald starts publishing Liar Liar, a 10-part podcast series about Melissa. These explorations of her life are building on months of TV news stories and tabloid headlines. Sachi, can you read a couple of them? I would be so happy to. Melissa Caddick's shoe mystery stuns forensic experts.
Could Melissa Caddick still be alive? Leading criminologist says foot could provide more answers. I also like this one from the Daily News, which says, top cop admits Caddick may have cut her own foot, not jumped from Sydney mansion. Well, a few weeks later, 7 News airs a televised interview with Anthony, including footage of him taking a tiny urn out of a shoebox.
Anthony's strange conduct with the police remains a mystery. His story contradicts itself. He harasses one of the federal agents involved in the case, and he even releases an album about Melissa's disappearance. And people are still consumed by theorizing. What did happen to Melissa? Like Michelle, lots of people on social media think Melissa cut off her own foot to trick the cops. Take a look at this TikTok, Sachi.
So, what are the theories? She was murdered? Suicide? She was swimming in the ocean in a shark? Bitter? I think those theories are quite plausible, but I think she faked her own death. She's avoiding jail time, let's be honest to you.
Sometimes I think as a people, we just have too much information and it makes us think that things are more complicated than they are. Yes, but also they found a foot. You know what I mean? Yeah, they found a foot. A foot's a tricky body part to find and feel confident in, you know? Just a foot, no body is pretty insane. Well, the comments on the TikTok are really funny because it's all people talking about how they would cut their feet off.
For $20 million. And this one says she could get a brand new foot with $22 million. Arguably true. Yeah, sure. But you still have to lose a foot and find a way to get somewhere to get a new foot. And also like this money she stole, it has to be used discreetly. I mean, there's just too many questions. Mm-hmm.
There are plenty of other theories too. One of Melissa's childhood friends thinks that Melissa was actually taken into witness protection, possibly to go after bigger fish. But the courts ignore the speculation. They're focused on making Melissa's victims whole. It's a tall order. She's estimated to have stolen roughly $30 million from more than 60 clients, and most of that money seems to have vanished into thin air, just like Melissa herself.
As of this recording, investors have collectively only gotten back about $3 million, just a fraction of what they're owed. The authorities hope that they can resell her assets and recover at least some of the money. But nothing, not the mansion, the jewelry, or the fancy clothes, will be enough to make Melissa's victims whole.
It's May of 2023. I have to imagine that Kate has been hearing so much about Melissa. Now she knows more than she ever did during their long friendship, and she could hardly believe any of it. On this day, Kate gets another update from an official source. In a press conference, the new South Wales Deputy State Coroner reports, I have concluded that Melissa Caddick is deceased. However,
For Kate, she processes the news, but it's a lot to hear. She's torn between feeling sad for Melissa's family and being enraged by Melissa's scam.
Kate and her family lost about $10 million to Melissa. That's about a third of the total money Melissa stole from all of her clients. But even though Kate and her extended family lost everything, she still talks about her longtime friend with clear compassion. When she's asked to reflect on Melissa and Anthony's wedding, which Kate's stolen investments helped pay for,
Kate tells a podcast, Liar Liar. Completely catered for, lovely food. It was all finger food, but caterers coming into the house. Champagne all night. She had three dress changes. Three? Yeah. Why did she need three dress changes? Oh, I suppose it was a big event. I don't know.
I would be so angry if I was able to see tangibly where somebody spent the money they stole from me. Yeah, I know. And so many of Melissa's victims were like Kate, loving friends and family who trusted her implicitly.
Nobody who grew up with Melissa can quite believe that she's everything the media is saying. The official take on what happened to her is that it's still a mystery. Or, as Kate said when asked about why Melissa had three dress changes at her own wedding, I don't know. And there are still so many unanswered questions about Anthony, who, by the way, was never implicated in Melissa's scam or her disappearance.
The coroner's report describes him as a, quote, most unimpressive and unreliable witness. The lack of answers has only fueled speculation online. People have invested countless hours into analyzing, dissecting, and even recreating aspects of Melissa's life. But just like everyone else who invested with Melissa, it's unlikely that anyone is going to see substantial returns.
Well, Sachi, you must have been pretty shocked by this one. Yeah, I didn't think it was ending with a foot in a shoe. I mean...
The fact that there are so many conspiracy theories around this, I think is so interesting because maybe it speaks to people want scam artists to be a little more complicated. You know, they want it to be like more mysterious or that these people are like, they function in a way that we don't. Their brains are made in a way that ours aren't and they would be willing to cut their foot off. Yeah. Just to get away with something. And it's like, I don't really think people are all that complicated. Right.
You know, I truly do believe it's just like a very, very odd death of her jumping off a cliff because she knew her life was basically over. And I guess that just happens to be the remain that is found. You know what I mean? It is just crazy. Honestly, if I was in Australia, I would have been obsessed with this. I mean, what else is happening there? But there's really not a lot going down there. So they have to take what they can get. I understand that. I'm wondering, Sachi, if you think financial planning is a scam.
Because I really don't know anything about financial planning. It seems like every day there's like a new app or someone telling me to do something. And I'm just like, I don't really know what's going on here. And I'm really scared about it. And then hearing something like this, is this life coaching as far as scams go? Like, I just don't.
It's a lot. It's a lot to think about. I don't know that it's all a scam, mostly because I don't understand enough about financial planning to just say that. And I do think that there is something to be said about you hiring a good financial planner who helps you
figure out this ecosystem that is super complicated. But I do think a lot of them are full of shit and they prey on the fact that people don't know anything about their money and they don't know how to ask. And I think also people believe in the fallacy of sunk cost. And so they'll leave their money there and hope that eventually it works out. I think people are also very attracted to the idea that you can like have this kind of passive income of investing in something quietly and being like, you know what? This money's just here anyway.
I'm the person who knows how to put it somewhere to make you more money. You just sit back and I'll deal with everything. Like to me, that sounds great. And if one of my very good lifelong friends who worked in that sector for a long time came to me and was like, hey, this is what I'm doing. I'd be like, yeah, I'll give you a little bit of money. Then she keeps showing you more and more lies about the money you're making. Yeah, that's crazy. It's like I'd
I don't think there's anything stupid about these people, like, believing in her. No, of course not. It's a tough question because it's like, would you believe your doctor? Yes, but if your doctor is lying to you, that's not your fault. Yeah, I mean, it really is just hard to parse some of these stories. And it does make me really sad because...
These normal everyday things of getting a bank statement or any kind of statement and not clocking all these weird little things that are wrong with it. Like, oh, this isn't even how long an account number is. Like, who's going to look at something long enough to know these things? Like, we inherently just trust these things we see that look official.
Right. You kind of understand why true conspiracy theorists are like, buy these gold bars and put them under your floorboards. 100%. This makes me want to put rolled up cash, like tucked away in different parts of my apartment, which I'm not going to do. Do not break into my apartment. My plan is much more complicated and you will never figure it out. Yes, my financial plan right now is, I don't know, marry rich.
Okay, Sarah, I don't even have the bandwidth to get into that plan. Best of luck. Let me know how it goes. This is Melissa Kadic, Trouble Afoot. I'm Sarah Hagge. And I'm Sachi Cole. Special thanks to the many listeners who suggested we look into this story. If you have a tip for us on a story you think we should cover, please email us at scamfluencers at wondry.com.
We use many sources in our research. A few that were particularly helpful were Kate McClymont's reporting for the Sydney Morning Herald, Tom Housden's reporting for BBC News, and the 60 Minutes Australia episode, The Money Trail. Sarah Doe Osborne wrote this episode. Additional writing by us, Sachi Cole and Sarah Hagee.
Thank you.
Our coordinating producer is Desi Blaylock. Our managing producer is Matt Gant. And our senior managing producer is Ryan Moore. Kate Young and Olivia Richard are our series producers. Our senior story editor is Rachel B. Doyle. Our senior producer is Ginny Bloom. Our executive producers are Janine Cornelow, Stephanie Jens, Jenny Lauer Beckman, and Marshall Louie for Wondery. Wondery.
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