188\. Bonnie Prince Charlie: The Young Pretender
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Captain Richard Robinson's last voyage had not gone exactly to plan his ship, the britain, and had saved from liverpool in late july seventeen forty five, bound for the bolt port of riga. The outward journey was uneventful, and having loaded his break with a cargo of timber, the captain and his crew in back for home, navigating the treasure seas around the british house was no simple matter.

But while heading south, passed the west coast of scotland, the unusually rough winds drove the end to seek refuge near the small in a hebridean island of cana, located twelve miles of the southwest of sky. And here SHE remained until a sequence of disturbing incidents forced her captain to take his vessel back out into the open, stormy seas. The and finally, doctor liverpool, around eleven o'clock at night on thursday, the fifteenth of August, and early the following morning, captain Robinson hated to the chAmbers of the mir own pRichard red. Under oath, the captain recounted his story as a Clark scribed down. The particularly.

you do love a reading, the love of reading other. And this is a particularly good reading because we have just had episodes on the acts of union today, i'm delighted to say, where, joined by historian jack riding or the of Jacobites, a new history of the forty five rebellion, to discuss, well, all these words that you probably have floating around in your consciousness. But we want to put the meat on those bone. So words like Jacobite, the name bony prince charlie, the battle of color on .

all of losing around the court of sous scores of out there, hundreds of though this with their porridge in the morning. This is the center of their life.

Well, I was, I was always explaining to join you and our producer are part of the provisional wing of the I M Scottish movement.

But for those .

who aren't members of that particular merry band jacket and welcome, hello, hello, good morning. hello. I mean, I was part, I suppose I mean an expert. You must a queen, the club, a hand Jacobite queen.

Well, i'm certainly Jacobite.

That's very good. okay. So let's start with something very basic and say what .

you mean about in the sense that I have you know, I study IT and it's fascinating and i'm determined that IT integrates itself into the broader sense of eighteen century british, european world history. So that's that's my I material leader for Jacobite history. But the simple answer, and there are complicated answer as ever. And then there's a simple answer to what is a jacket.

Okay, so give us both. We kit with a fast city, but let's not simple than go complex.

So when IT comes to the late seventeen century, eighteen century, just the followers of James, the second of england and island and seventh of scotland, he was removed in the glorious revolution, as described in sixteen eighty eight. And Jacobites, because IT comes from jackie, beth to James, are supporters of his right to rule alongside the senior branch, which is the male branch, which is James from, is able to do IT. And then his son Charles would do that. So this is the line that jack bates support.

the line the main mae.

exactly the elder branch of the student line, which is expelled from england and scotland, and 8， and the return of which is supported by jackie bites, so exchanges the second and seventh. And his son, James Frances estate, who inherences that right? And then his son, child's able stute body prints, child would then inherit that right further room.

And it's a song actually children are taught to. I was told to sing when I was in primary school. We were in a great and did .

you know really quite well.

six harmony. Take that as you will. But he is a speed bony boat, like a bird on the wing, on with the sailors cries that at the song that will sit in many people's is about the last child. The steward who would have, could have was not king.

And of course, once the student, the senior branch are exiled in sixteen eighty eight, they are the king's over the water. So that's where you get that kind of phrase as well. So you get drinking clubs, passing a glass wine in a toast over a bowl of water to represent their religions to the kings over the water. Which of the student .

abroad and William reading was that part of the song which is with is born to be king?

Yes, you tell us what the captain and saw in canada that he had to get post taste to the authority is in london. What was that all the reference to?

So what the captain actually is witnessing is the beginnings of the rising itself. So he's he's witnessing the fact that Charles ever sturt has already landed. Now, to extent there were rumors, as you can imagine, have been coming to london over the previous few weeks since child had actually landed on the twenty further july.

So this is just before the ships kept in that she's has to go into the area of the inhibitions. So he has blended for several weeks, but they're been rumors. But this is bona fied a first hand, you know, witness statement from somebody who happened across IT goes to liverpool, tells him exactly what do you think, which is that there's men starting to ARM. There's money coming in there, class man joining the cause of this tall hands, some Young man whom everyone calls prince Charles and this at other, that's what witnesses so its first had witness statement from somebody has no skin in the game, which then directly gets sense overnight to london fast track. And that's what the british government is.

right? okay. So that is one hell vert sa, and that's what we're going to be examining over the next two episodes. Let's go right back. Let's go right right back.

So you mention James to the second who is out of the start of this as scots, was a legitimate claim to the british stone, which could change good, some scars, very good, some scots say, which would have completely reshaped or or or differently shaped britain, then became the impact that we know. Who was James the second, and why did he matter? And why was he controversial as well? He was a controversial figure.

So James the second is the brother of Charles the second and his air, because Charles the second.

despite checking about .

on a global steroid driven scope, didn't produce a illegitimate ate air. So eventually IT becomes obvious that, in fact, change the second and to be the king of england island and scotland.

okay. And just on that, James the second and seven, how can somebody be James the second and seventh at the same time? Can you just explain .

that the one you you ve got to realize, because this is what the whole thing gets complicated, but you as is that, in fact, scotland in england and ireland are three separate kingdoms, three separate parliament. They are not united. We share a british elles, but we are not united.

That doesn't happen officially until the exhibited in seventy nine seven. And even then, island is still separate, has a separate parliament to what then becomes great britain. In seventy nine seven, the crowds have been united under a single monarch since sixty two three.

That's the city of the crown. But even then it's still not, I mean, James, the first of england and sick of scotland, first of island in england. And scotland uses the term great britain.

I will make them one people. He wants to unite the british house under a single flag. You know, we see those fabulous designs for a single flag, which kind of anticipate the union jack, but that's in the early seventeen th century.

This is a student project to unite the british les under a single king and eventually under a single parliament. So that's why it's complicated. It's england, scotland and island until seventy nine, seven. And then you get great britain and ireland post seventy nine seven.

And just to throw another element into the mix, for those who don't know this history, there's also not only the division between different kingdoms, but also the division between catholics and protester. Explain how that plays out, what you've got differences .

between the establish churches in scotland. In england, that's the official church, is like the church of scotland, church of england. You've got the catholic church, which is also exists but has very little power because you've got various laws that prohibit catholics and non conformance, by the way.

So there's both who are not church of england. They're prohibited from certain professions. They have prohibited from educational org.

Ization is like the universities, pretty basic stuff. So there are certain things are absolutely blocked. Being a member of parliament, you know that it's all blocked.

So this, if you like, is the last lingering wounds from the reformation, the protestants of one there in power. And one of the problems with James in the eyes of the establishment is that he is a catholic is not just that he is from a family which they increasingly tired of. He has the wrong religion exactly.

Cause by the late mid late seventeen th century, england and scotland are firmly protestant. Whichever permanent of that process is, is a capitan parian church of england. IT is predominantly tly protected.

So the idea of having a catholic king in child of prostate countries like scotland, dan, england is in in of itself and naoma and IT. Certains wouldn't happen in france. You wouldn't have a catholic country with a present.

But it's not just a religious, a political issue. Because, of course, the king is part of the constitution, and the constitution includes parliament, includes nobility, includes these established churches and the king and they all sit in this sort of hopefully happy relationship. And if you have a king who is catholic and wanting to emancipate the catholics s within a country which is preventing prostate. And suddenly you've got not just a religious issue, but is actually a political and the social issue as well.

So what to us would look like a completely natural, obvious declaration of human rights that catholic and non conformance can go to university, can stand for parliament, are equal in every way to other people in the country. Is that this period, a highly controversial view for .

the king told IT, is in the course. Charles the second and James the second were both exile together in france, which is where James starts to find an empathy and eventually convert to cathos m. Before that point, he would have been seen as a precedent.

So that child's a second was also sympathetic and empathetic to the roman catholic religion, and possibly converted on his death bed. So the very fact that the student have this complicated history over the seventeen th century constantly being excelled in coming back, their influences are more pan european, perhaps, than many of the of their subjects. And they certainly pick up an interest and then start to feel an empathy with catholicism by the time they return in sixteen and sixty. And certainly by the time James the second and seventh inherits the throne from his brother in sixty eighty five and the jacket.

I mean, wear IT on their slee, quite literally, because their emblem is the White rose, which is linked to the house of burden, which is also gonna le's back up. In england because, you know, IT is a foreign emblem, it's the french. You know, it's a influence from not only a different religion, maybe different loyalties, different priorities, people we fight .

with exactly, I mean that that the whole religious affiliation ation with other countries when perpetual at war with one particular country, which is france, which is the mega state of europe, everybody is having to negotiate france and its ambitions, both in europe beyond in the indian subcontinent, and an obviously in north america. And then the global trade issue. I mean, this is a big is big history. This is why who is king of england and great britain and the success or not, of the Jacobite rising to put the eyes, the senior is of James the second and seven on the throne is a european and global issue, because IT affects the war, affects who joins who and win. Trade allegations.

money flows, everything, everything depends on this. You have a .

standing army of a certain number, and if you have a big lion at home, you have to your army home to deal with the rebellion. So you're destabilizing the british state from within. So part of a consistent element of the french foreign policy, from the lu, the fourteen th, through Louis, the fifteen th, into 6， the sixteen th, which we can kind of get on to, is the disston iligan of the english british state by encouraging, with men, arms, money, risings within the british. Les.

in our schools, were still talked about what the textbooks call the glorious revolution. Now that's a reference to the position of James the second and the seventh, and his replacement with married the second and her dutch husband, William of orange. Now that is always presented in the textbooks today as if it's a wonderful thing, the glorious revolution, as its name suggests. But was IT actually something that was popular at the time?

I think IT really reverts back to this idea. What, what's the bigger issue here? And the bigger issue is the power play in europe, who's the biggest coco in the nest in europe? It's the catholic france.

So it's those allegations. Es and deficit student are also cousins of the kings of france, so they have a natural familiar connection with the Stewarts, the boarders and the stewards, but also a religious connection, because they are both catholic. And I think we are interested in what people thinking england and scotland, and then grade, but to a vast degree, is what is france willing to do on their behalf. And that's the issue. Who's supporting who?

Yeah who's pulling the shrink? You know if you do have a to IT on the throne and he's beholden to the owners of the White rose, the house of boban, then you know who running our country I can see that did they call IT the glorious revolution at the time? I got a Monica that IT was attached later. And what did people on the rest of europe call is?

I mean, I think he was called the glorious revolution because he was seen as bloodless. And IT was glorious because they got rid of jane relatives quickly and sort of seamlessly. Although, of course, if that's not the case, because what then trigger is a whole load of military rising? S, no.

So it's not bloodless at all in that, you know, the whole situation is fraught for the hundred years. It's only until Charles s. To do IT dies a hundred years exactly later, that any sense of a settlement has really genuine occurred.

So how different is the reaction to the glorious revolution in scotland? Because what we're going to see over the next fifty years is rising to originate in scotland. Trying to put back the students who were, of course, originally a Scottish family who ended up on the throne of england too. Is IT very different reaction to sixty, eighty eight in scotland, or only a little bit different?

Look, quite rightly, the Scottish parliament and the independent kingdom of scotland act independently, and they responded independent. But they come to a simpler conclusion. I mean, if James the second and seven abc ates, as far as the english in scotland, they got to observe the king has a different relationship to the country in parliament.

It's more to contract your relationship. They see that differently, but then they decide actually they are willing to offer the crown similar to the third and mary, mary being the daughter of James and second and seven. So there is at least there is a segway from a student point of view, from a rugby family point of view. But they all the junior branch, they all the branch to the female line, not the male line. So there is a difference.

And this is important because wild scots today very largely look with the sort of eye of tragedy and great sadness at the failure of the jack about rebellion and the defeat color. And all these things will be talking about over the next two episodes. In natural fact, a lot of scots are fighting on the governments side. There's absolutely no sense that the whole of scotland is united behind bolly prince charlie and that as in england, you've got a divided country is IT had a relatively small minority who still want the street. Is backup or maybe a third?

Yeah because the difficulty of course, calculating the strength of jacot m is is the further way you get fro m 6 eighty eight。 The more bedded in the new regime becomes the .

year after the ccl glorious revolution, whatever they may call IT in france. I don't know that someone will tell us, but all of those suspicions that those in england had that there is just too much sympathy, too much stamping from the french, seems to be vindicated a year later when James tries to take his phone back, completely backed by the french. Now I just tell us about that attempt in march nineteen sixty nine, when he does try and sees his throne back.

Well, this is the ten plate for the rising right way through to the the forty five is that in order to invade a country, you need support from someone else. You don't have the way with all yourself. You've got to have a support.

And money is the main thing. Arms is nothing, and men is nothing. But immediately you look like a foreign invader. The arctics is terrible.

is terrible.

And his cousin to the kingdoms. And so all the propaganda you can see IT just forming in front of your eyes. You know, the propaganda machine. He lands in island because calls its a separate country.

Unlike england and scotland, ireland is still pretty catholic, and the parliament has refused to acknowledge or IT to follow what's going on in england and scotland. So this to be a good place to have a foot hold. James never wants just ireland.

He never wants just scotland. He wants all three kingdoms back. And IT becomes a mantra to the students, all kingdoms or none.

So he comes back with some four thousand french troops. And how then does that first face off, as you say, the template for all Jacobite uprisings thereafter? How does IT go? What happens?

Well, IT ultimately fails, as IT turns out at the battle of the boy, even though technically the boy in is in retrospect, but like coloradan seen as definitive at the time, I was seen as a significant battle, but not necessarily the end of the rising in island I made. The button line is, as soon as there's any sense of defeat, change just simply returns to. And each time you have a failure, IT becomes increasingly more difficult to try.

I get, hence the closer you get to sixteen, eighty eight or seventy or 8， the ceremony dates were certain seismic shifts occur. You might be had a really more people to your flag. The further way you get from that, the more difficult IT becomes.

although passion is passion. And we talked about very briefly the masker of glen co, where my earners friend here is involved in, in this, there is a damn right the heart of this. So the massacre of ginko, just for those who may not have heard our previous chat about this, even though it's getting harder and harder, even though every time James goes back and his forces are defeated, it's harder to rally, and army blanka is a really decisive and bloody chapter in this point. Just tell us what happens.

At the point being, the background to this is that the government wants the Scottish plans to swear an earth of religions precisely because they are expected of being sympathetic.

Tic to the cheers. That's right. Actually in their defense they've won, alleges to James who still alive and sitting in science amman or lay you know, he's just across the channel so he's accessible and they have san allegiance to him. So being asked to swear allegiance to somebody else.

the nee, to use the words of the game with, have to bend. Well.

that's what you do to a king in whatever strike. So eventually they ask for permission effectively from James in to stop any difficulty from the class point of view. They asked commission from him to make this, oh, of religions, just to get the government off their back.

So you are with the, well.

difficult times, difficult .

to .

flexible. If you love losing your clansmen. Every single time this happened, IT again, IT becomes increasingly difficult for people to justify rising to the flag of the students. And this is something that the student, I think, a very keenly aware of, but increasingly even get used to where they are in exile and start to .

accommodate that. So when these chiefs and say, look, James, hard times, we love you. But can we just do this thing just to keep say.

what does he say? Well, sadly for the plans and ring is a kind as well. IT seems to me they do tend to dither and not grasp opportunity, which is why charlie boi prints.

Charlie is so different because he does grand, which the others tend not to that much more careful. Unfortunately, James doesn't send them the go head in a timely fashion. And so unfortunately, it's all delayed and is a deadline to swear the oath, fire and all that kind things you end up with. This sort of is a shift between tragedy and fears that goes on, people scrambling around the islands trying to get to somewhere to declare the oaf.

Deadline is new year's.

which is a date everyone can remember. And unfortunately, James just dithers and dithers until he just gives them next to no time to sign at all. But then there's also a kind of comedy of errors, which makes IT even more tragic. What happens? Ginko, because they were in absolutely intending now they got permission from jane to sign the allegation.

But when they arrive at invoice to sign, the notary has gone.

So note the magistrate who's going to take these, why does he go and why does he go? What is what is the reason from disappearing at this pivotal point where hundreds of lives could be saved, even if people have got their fingers cross beside their backs? Where does he go? Why does he go there? Some sort of black arts going on here? Or is he just first? Is IT just really that? Good lord. I mean, it's just not, well.

what you're been haggling around for weeks waiting for them to turn up. And then so they they decide to do, I mean, look at IT from the somebody else's of they think again. So maybe this a bit of.

and so very what happens? The campus are sent to take retribution against the mcDonald of blanco. But rather than just marching in and attacking them, they do this terrible but trail of hospitality by staying with them .

and then falling on them in the night. The secretary state of scotland tells them to do this terrible nefer ious thing.

to stay with and sleep with their, to drink their whisk OK.

Have you've been paying pants ever since?

I once had A A very, very crappy car that had a habit of breaking down. There was an awful moment when is very nearly breakdown a glancing o and I already had a credit .

card and I your name down. That's hilarious. Oh.

that's very funny. It's not a great day, you have to say for the rule, it's not. It's a very tragic moment.

But the bottomline is, is that this is a combination. As you said, I think about thirty eight people actually die, which is you know, it's is significant.

I once had this conversation with the affghan who asking me about the best of blank code. Having been told by rory Stuart, I saved to say that by responsible for this, and he was very dismissed. He said, a massa, only thirty people in afghanistan. We call that a car crash.

he said. I also say, thanks, worry.

Been doing this for a while. Yeah I know you're not up to this.

but he's obviously being encouraged .

by Alice cambell. But the result.

whether this is an affair car crash or you know a serious master that IT sends a message and as a result of the massacre, is IT the case that all the other reluctant or waiting for her memo chiefdoms. You know, when the memo that doesn't come from James, do they then rush to sign their agents?

Well, I think, I mean, vast majority already have. So I think because they already had that message from James, I don't know whether is anyone left, you know, but what the key thing about glencoe is exactly what we is just said. You know, the the idea that you actually massic people, that you had the hospital is the first thing.

So it's a human on a human letter is is desperately unpleasant and on a classman sort of plan culture level is desperately unpleasant. But the the case of causes is that IT relies people to the flag because it's a event is shocking. It's hard hearted. It's unpleasant on so many levels and hence see though IT becomes a ring flag for the Jacobite jacey.

we're longing to get to the great forty five rebellion, but very quickly tell us and take us through the fifteen, the first jack about rebellion, as it's called in the textbooks. James, the second and seventh is dead. His son is now leading the jack bites, the man that the english textbooks call the old pretender. Now tell us about that.

well, is one in seventy nine eight. Because the other thing, of course, is everyone keep say, goes only two, rising fifteen and forty five. And in fact, there there were several, at least five before the seventy, forty five, all sorts of things, you know, in order to assassinate William third, all sorts of things are going on. So this is this is a highly, I mean, not always coordinated, but there is a consistent desire to get rid of who where is on the throw, who's not stew and to bring the student back so that we just got to say as a kind of broad.

so seventy minutes a bit, a bit of A A D squabs .

h seventeen fifteen is is a much more consistent. I mean, this is post the arrival of the hanover arians. So these are the descendants of severe of Hannah, who was the granddaughter James, the sixth of scotland, and first, the first Stewart king, who personally unites the crown of england and scotland. So she's got good pedestal, but he is a woman, and he is the junior, but not the city aboard, but he is a protestant.

And she's married to a bunch of germans who is speaking dish with a very heavy german accident, and clearly not, you know, english scotch or is.

So this is the first rising after the arrival of the kind of areas so severe actually dies a couple of a months before queen nand, which is why SHE doesn't inherit and dies in seventeen 服务 teen， and who arrives on the throne but judge the first of annabi. So that's the arrived of the Hannah arians. Hence the fifteen is a rising against the hand varians, quite specifically.

and is IT because that they are so, obviously so far from being legitimate, a Scottish.

irish or english so well. Figures that val families in this period of pan european in anyway, I mean, the student went that Scottish, they went that english. So it's complicated. I mean, these are pan european denney all into marriage.

But the haniel speak with a very, very heavy acts initially.

And so did Joseph doesn't speak in english. I mean, that's pretty .

problematic. Be problems that doesn't speak england.

doesn't understand what's going on around IT. So yes, of course he's gona bring over a whole of his fellow. We then occupy the court, potentially occupy key positions eec ETC.

That's a problem. And it's quite obvious that the weak members of parliament, there's been a recent vote where the weeks actually come in and are now the government. And then you got, for example, eventually becomes there are walpole, Robert walpole seen as the first prime minister these of week. He's anti Jacobite, anti student, pro hanovre. So there's a kind of interlocking between the weeks and their ability to continue continue to rule in government and hand, you know, is so a slightly sort of uncomfortable marriage of convenience in order to keep both of them on the throne and in parliament as the government.

But in lamon's terms, the establishment unites behind the kind of heaven as yes.

And in this new parliament you've also got the tories who are seen is also a kind of fifth column, basically jack about IT. They are almost pushed out of any form of performance or connection or government. And and in fact, there is no tory government until the arrival of doors. The third.

I want to talk about one particular man who will become so central in the seventeen fifteen jacka rising, the a of mary, who I find a character. So he was secretary state for scotland. He was keeper of the signal ring under queen.

And and also, quite a hot tempered, not putting up with this german nonsense kind of guy wasn't me. So I mean, he is pivotal in this time. Us more about him.

Well, this is partly why I introduced this lie, complicated the idea of this sort of jostling for who dominated parliament, both government, parliament and the crown and the monarchy, and is because he is one of the people who ends up being thrown out of his positions and stuff like that in a fit of discounted ments. Say, not just about the germans, this is why jackie m is so complicated, because you have everyone who genuinely believe that the students could be back because they are the divine kings of england, scotland, great britten. Or however you want to see IT right the way through to people who simply see there .

is a bit bit for their own positions.

their own wealth and a bit. But you got everybody, everybody between which is White, so complicated than being the students in charge of this must .

be very complicated .

parking cards, so that .

everyone with their own interest. But mar has his own personal. He's lighted. He is a capable man who is in a high position of power. He's been slighted by these newcomers. And so he is, I didn't know whether is a born again jack about, and he certainly sees that this is the potential to get rid of the impediment to his career at an ambition. What does he start doing?

It's the playbook. He starts arising. He starts in scotland. And then there's a battle at sherif year, which is inconclusive.

And this is the thing again about these ridings, is almost, in retrospect, you kind of know whether some things of Victory or not for whichever sites they are, complicated things. James france is able to do that. Who is the son of James the second and seven? He was died in seventeen. Once he died, he is out. The people .

died in france over after peaceful there.

No very sad and a bitter deponent man at sange. Mental labor is where the quarters just outside paris, near their side, not far from their side. Big, echoing palos.

That's where the the court is. He's died. You've had the active settled. His son is been discounted from this active, settled, even though queenan had thought about invitation him to become her air if he converted to preston.

Tim, and this is the man now referred to by the hanovre, an supporters.

the old pretender. The old pretender, hey, is. And this is where the additional difficult is come in for the stewards because he is openly bad by not only the Lewis of france, the kings of france, but also the pope. So he's now got the full backing today.

We need to get on to the forty five and so motor through what happens with the fifteen.

James in scotland is there for a split second, the rising collapses, and then he goes home again. Even though a lot of people, a lot of scholars who are, I focus on the forty five, but those are focus on the fifteen. See, that is being the one that really potentially could have succeeded because it's just after the arrival .

of hana arians.

you've got added in platters to get .

rid of them ever if you want. If you want to poke them in the eye.

then you've got powerful fingers on your side.

So why I feel what collapses? Because i'm afraid James ris isn't a good enough leader. And the thing about these rising, you need a real strong leader. And the leader has to, leader has to be the student. They have to lead the home is like Williams.

And that is why in the second half after the break, we are going to look at who boney prince charlie was and why he was different and why he had a chance, despite IT being a less opportune moment, whether his leadership would be able to take the skirts over the line and bring the Jacobites back to power.

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Welcome back. So we're now heading towards the great forty five uprising. And at the helm of that is bony prince charlie.

Tell us jackey who he was, and give us an image of the man. Because I grew up with very romantic stories of this beautiful Young man heroically leading an uprising. And then yet you here later that he ends up as this disappointing, sauced man who drunken, hopeless. And so there are two very different versions of where do you stand? What is he like?

Tell us all about him. That's not a bad summary. Well, you know, he's brought up like any prints of the ancient regime in rome. This is where the jack bike court moves from their paris and then moves to room in seventy nine. Why they get kicked .

out every time there's .

been this problem and there's a treaty sign, the student get kicked out of wherever they are. And of course, there was a rising seventeen. And James france is abled.

That rising fails. And he ends up in room. He is offered somewhere to live in room. So the pope is now looking at the van. The pope is now looking after the students. He still gets a pension from france, but he's now in room which makes a rising even more difficult.

But also, he makes protestants all the more suspicious .

of shadow actually.

right? The propaganda machine was up because he's now at the center of kathleen m.

But he say, Young, beautiful of the portraits. He's very beautiful, looking like a of poison skin, rosebud lips. You know, they feel very sad, longing eyes that he has in portraits. You know, all of that.

These shoots are quite handsome. They have these beautiful Brown eyes, not James the second and seven, but they do have these rather attractive. And Charles sebert te has open hair and Brown eyes.

So he has almost a kind of Elizabeth the first, who, of course, he's an ancestor. He has that kind of coLoring. He has the dark brand alyse and the sort of urban hair which is very attractive.

He's born in nineteen twenty. He is raised as a prince of the ancient regime. So both physically he enjoys hunting and shooting. He's very energetic, very athletic. He's not so academic.

And I think one of the big mistakes that his father makes is to indulge that lack of interest in the sort of more of theoretical about military campaigns, about leadership and monarchy and royalty and what your role is, and learning more about great britain, the country he feels destiny alongside his father to rule. He doesn't seem to have that much deep information, and of course, the isolated in this court as well. So there's good things about him.

He is attractive. He is tall. He looks gorgeous.

On horse back, he dances his very well.

He danced brilliantly. He know he has all these. He plays instruments.

He's very musical. Three languages french, tell english.

english yeah I find chinese.

I have yeah wild gamer exactly um you know they had regular concerts and theyve seen is very attractive. And when the various sort of members of the and wealthy individuals do their grand tour, which is a thing in the seventeen and eighteen century, do their grand tour, the destination is always room because of the ruins and the art, the battle and michelAngelo, like think.

And the student are there acting effectively as the embassy for any britain that turns up in room. So they have lots of contacts, but they are in EXO, hundreds of miles away from the country that they see as being the divine right to rule. There's a rather .

nice moment when they go to venice, isn't there? And he charms everybody and the english, the terrific cut off relations with the .

relation republic everywhere he goes. He is a bit of a star performer, you know that sense, he said. And there is that sort of the law of somebody.

That tragedy is quite attractive, but also the potential because he's Young, unlucky father, his father starting to, I think the further down the line IT gets, the more he's getting used to being in rome. Now he has the dignity of being a leading catholic and rome. He gets to a point, or at least put forward people for the college cardinals, which bet he has some influence over who becomes pope.

And that's quite regarding for a leading catholic IT gives you status. what? So he starting to ease, you know, himself, as this is the father, ease himself into life in rome. Charles is brother and hand. Bendick eventually .

becomes a kind .

of Young, you know, they both to them together, are very attractive children and very attractive Young adults. And and people are naturally, you know, attracted to. Then they become the life and soul of the, there is carnivals in room, or venice, or wherever IT is.

They love dancing. They love parties. Not like I think so that's the good thing because that's the short front. He's rather attractive and brilliant. Me, back in london, you've got the old Georges lid.

The dad doesn't speak english tool. The sun n speaks with a heavy german accent. And these guys .

are rock stars versus caviar. Can I just ask with Charles himself, does he feel Scottish as he got a Scottish naturalist? Pride does he call himself? Indeed, when people from the ground to come and make them, you know, I, Charles and scotish.

what is the link? Well, no, because these students, I mean, barring mind, Charles the second and James the second were born in london. These two see themselves as the rightful kings of all three nations. So it's not a Scottish thing as such outlook. The bottom line is if that's where you're support the residual supporters is in scotland, that's where you're gna aim.

where you'd think you'd make nice with them. Yeah I mean, you'd think you'd sort of play that up because you've already you know a bedrock of support.

but you've also got a country which has like the western highlands is quite obscure geographically, which means you can do a landing, which is exactly what child does. You can land on the western coast. You can actually bed in without anyone really interrupting you.

And so you know so scotland is a very key element to any rising, but I think we absolutely clear from the echo, the students are interested in all three crown, not scotland on its own, which is why there's a problem with his Scottish command, ders, when Charles s. lands. But that's a bit later rock. We've also got really reiterate that the students believed in divine right. So that means there's no one between them and god in the context of them ruling whether and this is where the religion comes in, a lot of non conformance, for example, even though they might the Better time under a catholic king in england, for example, they saw that jesus was the head of the church. Not any complications.

There is a laid so tell me at what point then I think we're going to leave this on what we like to go a Cliff. But when he puts his cello down and gets into the boat, tell us what happens there and how he does. I already mentioned, you know, scotland is a good place to land. So at what point does that trip? Okay.

well, exactly. But what's actually happened is that in late seventeen forty three, in the beginning of seventeen forty four, the french is sponsoring an invasion of the southeast of england in support of the students. So this is a full scale invasion with the full backing of the french.

I guess what? There's a war going on in europe. So this is very useful to create some instability in britain in order to make their gains, or the warfare that's going on in europe and beyond to make france more powerful.

And we should remind people that this is almost a century long conflict between britain and france for imperial influence right over the globe. But there are repercussions of this in canada, in america, in the arabian, in island, in scotland, in the european continent, ent, and then write on through to india, the Philippines and the far distant east. So this is literally a global conflict into which the jack bites. And there is a sort of trump card in the french pack.

yes, exactly. And you know, you can chat the way that the french women are and then completely back in invasion, and then sit back and do nothing for decades, and then suddenly lead to life is always connected to what's going on the in france and what's best for the barbs and for the french nation. So cut along story short, Charles heads up on behalf of his father, this invasion force.

So he is actually on the northwest coast of front, waiting for a fair wind and for a few jitters among the english jack boys to sort of calm down. And then the minute is a fair wind. This invasion force is going to go to england, southeast.

What is the scale of IT? Is a big force.

Is a big force. How many ships? And me.

what a way to talk about, well, it's bigger than the two ships that Charles ends up taking in the june of seventy forty five. This is a big invasion force. I don't know how many ship IT is, but it's it's a real threat.

This fails because of the ill wind and because of the collapse of support with in england and things. So he's left kicking his head on the northwest of france, on the coast. Eventually he sort of is suggested that in order to not be so embarrassing, he might go to paris, maybe live there for a bit.

And then he is just abandoned by the french because this is what I mean. There's a constant up and down even though their cousin, the catholics exec c ec, they only really bother with them when it's useful. And so he just sits there for month a month.

He's over a year kicking his heels in paris, and he decides unilaterally that he is going to do IT himself. So he raises money and he tells the people back in scotland, for example. I mean, this is where the main support is, is where you can almost guarantee he support, he tells them in scotland, i'm coming back and i'm warning you i'm coming back and eventually said, I did warn you i'm now coming back.

And that's why we end up in the inner hebrides with that ship that happens across the rising. That is Charles himself. He instigates IT. He gets the money, the ships, he gets the support he has to pay .

for IT the fridge day, even given the two ships.

to be honest, I think love the fifty eth. I think he knows exactly what's going on. And he seeks, look, IT doesn't cost me anything.

I'm just gonna leave into IT see what happens, you never know and guess what is in that more successful to start off with? Then even the french anticipated that when the french coming quite late into the forty five. But initially this is Charles about Stuart gig, and he is doing IT by himself .

and go back to William's wonderful rendition at the beginning. It's almost doomed as soon as he arrives because he is spot to tell us what happens.

I know it's not deemed. I mean, when I wrote my book, the one word that was banned. From anything was doomed.

And this is how I wrote the book. I wrote the book using primary forces intelligence letters going hither and either. And this story about somebody happening across the rising, I didn't.

Dom IT, the rumors were already in london by this point. Anyway, IT confirmed there was an independent witness. He was english confirming that this was happening. And in fact, IT shows you that with very little where, with all just SHE, gots and determination, you can start a rising which body knew was happening.

So he lands jackeline on the air of area sky on the twenty third of july seventeen forty five.

accurate. He loves fancy dressed as child.

And so this is going to be disguise.

Yes, it's a disguise.

And he manages to get a few troops together and a little backing and hebrides, and then he lands on the mainland. Take us to this great moment when he raises the standard and fin. Those who have don't know this is this magnificent oxide position, whether is a great monument, today is one of the most sort of resonant places in the highlands. And all scots go out and week for the student. And the hopes of the rising take us to that scene.

No, it's wonderful. I mean, this is where the myth actually does beautifully alive with reality, because I think that I must have been the most extraordinary moment. He has spent weeks battering, charming, bullying, these plan cheeks in the the various mcDonald plans.

You know, all these plans, when who wary? They wary of these rising. So we've been talking about how long now about these various speeds of rising.

Some, like luck, tell him to go back.

yet they tend to go home. And he says, I have come home. And all that they don't want to rising they see is a bit at hot.

It's organize. Ones fail, god knows what's going to happen here. But eventually he starts to charm. They start to realize that this is my true king, or rather, this is the represented, the region of my two king who's ox back in rome. You know, I need to, my support on my loyalty is the students.

And so you end up with this sort of promise that various people are onna bring various clansmen. You know, hundred here, two hundred here. You have no idea how you're onna turn up, but theyve been promised that certain people are going to turn up. And so he lands with his little boat at this beautiful lockers at the final, which now obviously has this great monument to him, which was built in nineteen century, but he standing there just waiting, you know. And so you can just imagine that sort of focal quality is that you're just sitting there with .

the wind blowing was stressed like, who's gonna to my party?

Is anyone GTA turn up because you're now well into the mainland?

Your not on an island. This is incredible bly romantic setting with .

the hills in the background. Till vulnerable, very suddenly, he starts to hear the vale of the poets. He starts to hear the sound of footsteps on the hills, and that as he standing there looking at the hills, he suddenly sees all these classrooms and starting to come over with the pipes playing and all that kind of thing.

And then they are thring moments where they all gather around him. And I doubt if anyone could actually hear that far back into the girl, but let's imagine they do. And just like when the great moments, I think, in the film with David niven, is that reimagining of the great moment of land fin. And I think it's worth watching just for that moment because I think it's pretty accurate. You suddenly ly got him standing with the student standard and declaring that the Jacobite rising, the forty five, is officially sult.

And with that, we'll take a pause, join us for the next episode of empire to find out how that uprising progresses. Is such a beautiful of cinematic picture. You painted the raw of support.

And if you want to hear IT now, right now, you just need to be a member of our club. Empirical U. K. Dot come .

wonderful club with a wonderful news letter and fantastic opportunities to hear matter of new wonderful voter episodes.

All are many serious, are bonus phases, but many serious if you just can't wait. And I know if you're been listening to a jack, because I can't wait to fight out what happens next. You get IT through the club till the next time we meet. It's goodbye for me and eat on in.

Bye for me. William 德伦 布。