Uzo Aduba
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Welcome back to Where Everybody Knows Your Name.

I am so thrilled for you to meet my new friend, Uzo Aduba. She's a three-time Emmy-winning actor whose work spans the stage, TV, and big screen. And you, of course, know her from Orange is the New Black, in which she played one of the best TV characters of all time, Suzanne Crazy Eyes Warren. The world has seen this show, but if you haven't, really, you must. It's just an amazing performance. Thank you.

More recently, she authored a new memoir that's in bookstores right now. It's called The Road is Good. How a mother's strength became a daughter's purpose. The book tells the story of her late mother who immigrated from Nigeria to the U.S. It is powerful, tender, and smart, just like Uzo. Can't wait for you to meet her. Ladies and gentlemen, Uzo Aduba. ♪

Okay, let's just get some of the people we know. Mary, first off, my wife, Mary Steenburgen, sends her respect, love. She's met you. Yes. And I don't think you guys work together. We have not, but she is an icon, a legend, a gift. What a pair, the two of you together. Well, we are very lucky. All we do is laugh. That's the

that's the gold star for marriage. I mean, she is just wonderful and just, I mean, truly just a brilliant, brilliant actor and has an incredible range, sidebar. Just, I love her. Yeah.

Did we also say Kranzler? Yeah, Eric Kranzler, who I called on way into work. Oh my God, did he sing your praises. I love him. Yeah, he loves you. I love him. Actually, I talk about him in this as well. He was the first call I made after my mom was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer because I was supposed to go to Canada to work on a show called Mrs. America.

And I remember, you know, I don't know. He and I had had such a connection right away upon meeting him. And I had just like such a deep trust and safety around him. But even with that, you know, you don't know how a conversation of this type is going to sort of go when you're talking about like,

hey, something really pretty god-awful has happened, and we can't figure out a way to work with that, with this job. Like, you know, you just don't know, because it's like it's still, we have a working relationship supremely. And when I tell you the love that I was bum-rushed with in that moment...

In terror, that moment of, I really don't know what's about to happen with my life. And I really, on levels of that, and the amount of love and him just saying, we will figure it out. And if we can't do it, we can't, you know, and just, and meant it. Do you know really meant it?

I love that man for the rest of my life. Did we say that he is your manager? We didn't say. And he's also Mary's manager. And he is, I totally understand what you're talking about when it comes to Eric, because he is literally a family friend that goes way, way, way back. Who loves you guys. Yeah. His love of family, his love of his parents, his father, you know, he is nothing but love and support and love.

He's a class act. I say it all the time. I'm like, if you ever leave me, I'm going with you. I don't know if you knew this, and I think it's okay to say, but when you made that phone call to Eric, he was walking with Mary and me in Vineyard Haven, in Martha's Vineyard. He was visiting us, and he just told me this morning that that's where that phone call happened.

Not in front of us. He walked off. And I didn't even know it at the time. He didn't say anything to us. But this morning, he told me as I was driving in that that literally... You are telling me that. I did not know that at all. I didn't either because he didn't tell us anything. He didn't share any of that with us then. He told me now. I...

He's amazing because we were, I mean, now I'm getting like a little choked up. So forgive me. Okay. We're going into choked up land soon. Shout out Eric Kranzler. Everybody needs an Eric Kranzler. Yeah. They really do. Hey, I know we're bouncing around, but this is, you know, I really want to talk about your mom, your book, your life and how you got here. But I have been...

watching nonstop Orange is the New Black. Oh, yeah. Oh, my gosh. And your performance is just astounding. And you said several things about how the character does not modify herself in any way for other people's, you know, what they think you should be.

She was just herself, didn't know how to be anything else but herself, which is such a liberating thing for an actor to play. And for me, it was like almost an instruction. I went, Ted, do you do that? Maybe you're too, because sometimes I can be a very nice actor. I'll give you what I know you expect to be given. And there's something to have that irreverence

to the material or in your character's case irreverence to life and other people's expectations must have been so much fun to play so much fun there was just such a freedom and also by the way like not only fun but like a great lesson for life yeah like how good it feels to live in that space

of just embracing the whole of yourself. And that knowing, because she had such wide margins of play space,

There was nothing. It frees you up as an actor from overthinking the scene, number one, or like the doing of the thing in the moment. You don't have to do or make anything happen, actually, because her objective is to just exist in here and whatever happens, happens and actually works. If she just decides to be...

The whole time, even if a line is written and she, that freedom that it's like you get such a permission to just live without any consideration of how bad it might look or come across or messy it might be. I loved it. So liberating and a lesson to be brought. You can't literally bring it into every character you play, but there does need to be that irreverence.

to the material. You shouldn't go to church around the material and have should-tos and not-tos. That's right. You should be able to bring that freedom with you with, you know, whatever I do in this moment will be right and appropriate. That's right. Yeah. That's right. And I think what was great about being on that show was

That permission was granted to all of us, frankly, because it was such a new idea. And Jenji Kohane, who wrote Orange is the New Black, was really looking for fresh new ideas and so had brought a lot of us in.

who had never worked in the TV space, you know, frankly. So for quite a few of us, it was our first big job, you know, it certainly was for me. And so that, there's like that ignorance is bliss sort of element to it. She allowed for us to sort of find our way and find our voices there. And I,

To your point, you know, that liberation is very satisfying as an actor. And definitely, I do not bring it to that same extent, extreme, with other characters. Like you said, it's not true for, that might not be true to different characters. But it did allow me to not be so self-aware about,

Yeah, oh God. You know, as I proceed forward with other characters that sometimes, maybe you can't do it the way Suzanne Crazy Eyes Warren does it, but maybe there's a degree cooler from that. Shirley Chisholm certainly had a version of

You know, no one was telling her, oh, no, this is not done. That's right. No, you don't run for president. That's right. You're a woman. You're black. No, this, no, sorry. That's right. So that had to have, in a way, that kind of... That's right. She was living her life. The real-life Shirley Chisholm was living her life with a freedom, with an abandon, with a liberation of...

Yes, we've never seen this happen before, but that doesn't mean that it's wrong. Yeah. You know, that doesn't mean that it can't be done and it cannot be so. And so her very existence was laced with that same freedom that you saw in the fictional character of Suzanne and Robert.

I guess she had a grounded freedom that, whereas Crazy Eyes has a more in the air sort of abandon. Um, but that was amazing to play and to be part of. And, you know, my mom loved, I knew it was Shirley Chisholm, but I knew it more from my mom's perspective because she was part of that, you know, second wave feminist movement with Gloria Steinem's and so forth. And, um,

It was really great to find her for myself and for her to develop into my own hero, independent of anyone else's idea. Because what a remarkable and brave thing to have done in that time. It's still remarkable now. Really, truly brave. Life and death-y brave. That's right. That's right.

That's right. We were talking, we're steps away from the Civil Rights Act having been voted into legislation. We're minutes after, you know, the Montgomery bus boycott, Emmett Till, and she's deciding where she belongs and at the table and who she is and what is possible for all Americans. It was a real privilege to get to play her.

That's great. Let me back up just a hair because the other thing I noticed watching you as I devoured Orange is the New Black is your, which will take us back to more origin stories, is

You are such an athlete and a dancer and a skater and all of those, uh, and a track star, all of that you see in your, in crazy eyes. You really do. She moves with such abandonment and joy, you know, in her body. And you really had that. And that has to be because you, you are an athlete. Yeah.

Definitely. I grew up in a sports house. You know, I'm in the arts, but I really, everybody in my, we had the arts too. Like we were exposed to it. Really, my parents had experience with sports and I love sports. What do you mean? What does that mean? Your parents had experience? My mother had been a tennis player in Nigeria. My family immigrated to the United States from Nigeria. My mother had been a tennis player and a netball.

and track runner in Nigeria, but primarily tennis. And then my father had been in track and field and soccer. And so they knew that world. They knew that experience of what it is to be a kid. They knew less about the arts. They wanted their kids to know it just because they hadn't experienced it themselves. And they loved watching it. But they really knew sports. And that's where a lot of my siblings...

explored and excelled as well. And so I grew up figure skating. Don't ask me how I got into that as a Nigerian kid in Boston. You know, I got a flyer one day in my backpack for learn to skate, you know, just a teacher handing those out.

And I cannot tell you for whatever reason, my mom got it out of my backpack in kindergarten, first grade, and decided to sign us all up for it. And, you know, it's hysterical because she is not a fan of the cold, like even a little bit, you know, like at all.

And like, here she is, like my Nigerian mom, like in these ice rinks, like I'm loving figure skating. My brother junior is falling in love with hockey. My dad is like freezing in the rink. They don't know why or how they got here, but we loved it. I absolutely loved it. Fell in love minute one. And I did it for 10 years. And, and.

Triple doubles. You really were a figure skater. Yeah, I could for real figure skate. And, you know, and doing competitions and all these things. And...

Yeah, so that was like from my background from that. And then I left figure skating. Why was that? Did you kind of hit a ceiling or did you? It became too expensive. Figure skating is such an expensive sport from the ice time to the costumes to the skates themselves to the coaching. All of it's very pricey. And I'm one of five kids.

you know, from a pretty humble background. And my older two siblings were already in college. My parents are managing that. That's a heavy lift for a lot of people already. And my parents were like,

You know, my coaches were like, we think she might be able to go further, you know, but we'd have to add more time and more hours and more coaching. And I think all my parents heard were like, like dollars going up. They were like, we cannot stay in this sport. And so I transitioned into track and field from there. In high school? In high school. Now I was in high school. What events? 100, 200 meters, four by one and the long jump.

So I was doing that. And my younger sister, Chi Chi, and I were teammates. And yeah, I loved that as well. I fell in love with that. And were competitive. Yeah, I was very competitive in my high school years and then was fortunate enough to get a Division I scholarship to Boston University. Go, Terriers. And compete there. And that's what got me my ticket to college. Wow.

You know, a lot of times you're talking to people, go, well, you're an athlete. And you go, yeah, I played a little high school basketball or something. And we all like to think there's some athletic part of us. You genuinely were an athlete. Yeah, yeah, I did. Yeah, I did. And it was great. You know, I loved the competition. It taught me a lot of both of those sports because they're individual sports outside of the four by one relay. Yeah.

They taught me a lot about my self-talk.

You know, self-motivating, getting my mind, you know, in the game and how to really focus, concentrate. We call it in sports, self-talk, you know, good, healthy self-talk. You know, it got me in a good, healthy self-talk and an ability to sort of let everything around you fall away. One of my coaches who I think teachers come in different packages and in different points in your life.

And my college coach, I had two of them, Bruce and Leslie Lehane. They were a married couple. Bruce is one of my greatest teachers in healthy self-talk and figuring out how to just cancel out the noise. Because there was a time when I was running

And I was getting real frustrated that I kept losing this one particular, the 100 meters, and this one particular competitor. And he was like, and I was getting focused on them for the wrong reasons. Like, I was just like, I can't seem to like, you know, speed up and like get past a certain point at this one place in my race.

And he said, you know why, Ruzzo? He's like, it's because you're always looking around. And I was like, what do you mean? And he was like, you know how much time you lose in a race looking left and right at what's going on around you? One-tenth of a second. Wow. He said, one-tenth of a second doesn't sound like a lot if you're running a mile or a marathon. But in the hundred meters where one-one-hundredth

of a second counts. A tenth of a second is the difference between first and last. And he was like, focus on your race. You're not running against anybody over here. You're running against you and the line. It's about you and the line. And just concentrate on the line. And it got my head. I loved him for it because it's like, especially going into our industry,

How easy you can be distracted by the one-tenths that are constantly surrounding you. That you could just be ending up in last place because you're chipping away at your own time. Right? Or you could be concentrating on you and the line. You know? And focus on that. Keep your focus forward. None of this matters. None of it.

So far, I really wish I could grab my pen and start taking notes. It's like, Ted, y'all don't do that. No. Focus on the line. On the line. I mean, that's where you're trying to get to. What does all of this along the way matter? It doesn't. Yeah. You know? Introducing Instagram teen accounts. Automatic protections for who can contact teens and the content they can see.

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I sometimes wonder whether, and can we go back another step? Yeah. Because in the book you talk about your grandfather, great-grandfather. Grandfather. Grandfather. Yeah. And I'm setting this up by saying that a lot of people

don't have the whatever for their brain. They weren't exposed or allowed or whatever the environment was to recognize or put themselves in a position for somebody like your coach to tell you that. And it feels to me like you go back to your grandfather who, you know, insisted that

All the daughters got the same exact education and opportunities as his sons, as the boys. Which just wasn't, I'm assuming, wasn't that necessarily naturally. No. In that world. In that world, in that time, you know, we're talking about...

early boomers, some of them, you know, kids born, if we're talking at the top of the line of the children in the 19, late 30s to like through the 40s, 50s, you know, we're talking about a generation where a

A lot of women were expected to be, globally, were expected to be homemakers, maybe a teacher, maybe a nurse. And that's somebody... Or marry somebody. Or marry, well, yeah. And if you did have, and those are fine and great careers, but that was about all that one was expected or...

looking to reach for. To reach further than that was sort of like, what are you doing? And in that culture, in my culture, it was expensive to go to school. You pay to go to school. It's not like free education here, right? So everybody really collected their dollars and would invest in the sun. This is your mother's generation. Yeah, you invested in the sun.

And my grandfather had more daughters than he had sons. And God bless, because I don't know what in his mind made him so progressive.

He had married my grandmother, who was a pretty, as anybody will tell you, a pretty tough lady, spoke her mind. She went to primary school and secondary school as well, which was also... Which he was incredibly proud of. Yes, very proud of. And he was happy to have a woman that strong. He wasn't afraid of it. And he had all these daughters and he didn't see why.

He shouldn't send a daughter to school. And he said, if they have the ability and the will, then they can go. And they did have the ability and they had the will. And, you know, his neighbors would...

mock my grandfather. My grandfather wore the same outfit every day, my mom said when she was a kid, because he saved all his money to send them to school and got no clothes for himself. He always wore khaki and khaki, as they said, khaki, his khaki shirt and his khaki pants, would go home, wash it at night, hang it to dry, put it on the next day so that he could afford to send his kids to school. Rode a bicycle, never owned a car. His neighbors would say to him, "'Ah, Joffrey, look at you.'"

You don't even have, you know, what are you doing? He said, I'm saving to send these kids to school. And then, you know, many years later, they've all now graduated not only from high school, but from universities of master's degrees, you know, in MBAs, all these different degrees, you know, professionals, medical, all of it. And

One day at his house, my mom was so proud. There were five cars at that point. Still, some of his kids were in school. This is in Nigeria. In Nigeria. Five cars parked out front because some of his kids had come home to visit him. And so the neighbors were like, what are all these cars? And he said, these, pointing to his children, are my cars. Wow. Yeah.

I mean, it makes so, you can draw a straight line from Shirley Chisholm being so happy that you played her all the way back down to your mother and your grandfather. I mean, it makes sense that you were able to absorb your high school or college coaches'

You know, just pay attention to the line. Don't worry about competing with other people. Just do your business. And that's what my grandfather was doing, right? He was focused on the line. And, you know, for my own life now, I...

And I have a daughter now. She's nine and a half months old. Congratulations. Thank you so much. You know, I want to impart that on her as well. And it's important for me to do right by her as right has been done by me. You know, I'm often reminded by the Maya Angelou quote of your passage has been paid for. You know, the good work was already done by those who came before us.

to put us in a position to receive and then take the baton and, you know, run our own race some more down the track. And I want to... I know that so much was sacrificed, done, and given for me to be sitting right here in this moment right here with you that I feel a responsibility now

in a positive way to do the same for my own and her next, her chance when it's her time to run. So I thank my grandfather. And to your point, like, I know without question, I am not here were it not for him. Well, it makes me so crazy when I hear the self-made man bit.

First off, it lacks any gratitude and awareness that, you know, we're only here by the grace of God and by the grace of all our ancestors who worked for this moment that you have. That's right. But yeah, gratitude. Absolute gratitude. You know, like my mom did so much, you know, like.

I'm here, yes. And to your point of the self-made, it's like we were talking about Eric Kranzler earlier. It's like that team. I love that word, team. Me too. You know, I love that word. I love that word. You know, I love being on a team. I love working with my team. I love teamwork. I love it. You know, teamwork makes the dream work. And it's like...

Yeah, so much. When I really stopped thinking, start thinking about like all the people who poured into my cup, my cup wasn't here when I started. It was here.

And it's because of each person pouring the teachers who poured into me, the coaches who poured into me, my family who poured into me, my professors who poured into me, my mentors who poured into me, my team who poured into me, that made it so that this was full and cold and refreshing and filling and satisfying to drink. I'm so grateful for that, you know, like it.

I did not get here alone. Full stop. No. You know. Take me from sports to the fine arts.

Sports to the fine arts. I had done, I was in my drama club in high school. And with each year, I just found myself falling more and more in love with rehearsal. And track was starting to get really competitive. And then my school was doing a production of Pippin. Remember Stephen Schwartz? I do. And I was playing the leading player, which the great Ben

Ben Vereen. Ben Vereen. We love, we love. Had played. I was so excited. And I'd be in rehearsal for Pippin and the rehearsal for, excuse me, practice for track were conflicting. And I knew I needed to run because that was like how I was going to be able to afford college. But I, what I didn't,

didn't know was how hungry I was for this thing called storytelling, art making, and that I loved it. And there was, I was prepared to give up my scholarship, excuse me, prepared to quit track in order to go full throttle into rehearsal. And then my coach, thankfully, you know, understood that that wasn't a good choice and, you know, figured out a way to make it work. And so, yeah,

Then came the time to go to college and my drama teacher in high school, Ms. Milas, shout out Ms. Milas, she was also my creative writing teacher. And she pulled me aside one day and she asked me after class, she said, have you given any thought to writing?

where you're going to go to school and where you're going to apply. And I was like, oh, yeah, you know, I was thinking about doing IR and I was thinking about applying to this school, this school, these places, da, da, da, da, da, da. And like, I like law. So I like politics. I think I want to be a lobbyist. I didn't know anything about what a lobbyist was other than they were lawyers.

And they did, like, they were in D.C. Like, that was all I knew. Be a lobbyist, you know? And she's like, hmm, interesting. Okay. And she's like, have you ever given any thought to going to school for the arts? And I can see myself still standing in front of her desk. And I had no idea what she was talking about. And I was, like, so confused. And she said, because you really seem to have a real interest in it.

And I think you could do something with that. And I still blank, you know, and then you realize these are the little gaps with being first generation, the things that just are so foreign, so foreign, you know, conservatories and performing arts schools that they're just not, they don't have the access to that information. It's not that they're against it. They just are not exposed to it.

And because of their lack of exposure, I too had no idea what that was. You know, I'd never even heard of a conservatory before. And I must have had such a perplexed look on my face because she then stopped and she looked at me and she said, you know, you can go to school for this, right? And I didn't. But as soon as she said it, like a bulb went off in my head. And I was like, that's what I'm supposed to do with my life. Wow.

Somebody witnessed you and gave you that. And gave me that. Absolutely. That's why I have such a deep, deep love for teachers. I, to your point earlier, I know I didn't do it alone. I can, at some pretty critical moments in my life, chart when someone else came in and helped to gently guide me in the direction that was my purpose. And that was one.

Because I would have happily chugged along doing something else, having no idea that there was even something else to do. Where did you go? What conservatory? Oh, Boston. Boston University College of the Arts. Fine arts. Fine arts.

Yeah. Pretty cool. Pretty cool. And you got to act. Oh, yeah. Was it like I went to Carnegie Mellon and I was a transfer student from Stanford. Let me back up. More about me. But my athletic, you know, background was one thing only, basketball. Basketball. And I was, I lived, died, passionate, loved basketball.

about basketball. Was I really good? No. I went to an all-boys school, Kent School for Boys in Connecticut. 300 kids, any high school would have kicked our ass. But we won our league championship. It meant everything to me. And my, the only person who could crack through my lack of academic chops was Jim Wood, who was our basketball coach. And

And if I got into trouble, no one could reach me. They'd just tell Jim, talk to Ted. And, oh, Lord, it was, you know, his respect for me or lack of it meant everything to me. I just loved the man. Yeah. And I loved basketball. Yeah. But what I got from that, my lesson, life lesson, was ensemble. Mm-hmm.

I love team. This is not about you, Ted. That's right. This is about the team winning or not. That's right. So it's team. That's right. And I love in my, I recognized it when I fell in love with, I went to Stanford to play basketball, walked out on the court and stuff. Wow. That's major. Stanford is major though. The idea was major. Yeah.

But the reality was I stepped up to the court. My friend and I, Dwayne, who we had played basketball together at Kent, went to Stanford together and we said, let's try out for freshman basketball. He was an athlete. And I stepped up to the court. I mean, not even on the floor. And I looked around. It was like, oh, Lord, what?

This is when Lou Alcindor was a freshman at UCLA. Basketball and basketball players were just a different level. And I just slowly turned around and walked out. I found acting about a year later at Stanford. But what I recognized was ensemble, team, performance.

I love team. I love working with the same group of people over and over again. Yes. You know, building that vocabulary that shorthand with each other. You know, do you play still or do you watch? I did until about 45. I retired when Magic Johnson retired. I still appreciate and love. Yeah.

But my live and die, you know, if the Lakers lost, I'd be depressed until the next game. If they won, you know, or if they were playing and they started to lose, I'd leave the room because it was obviously me who was jinxing them. And I wouldn't come back once they were in. Anyway, sports and acting. Because acting, when done well, I think is a contact sport.

Absolutely. Basically, you and I are pushing each other around to take the other person someplace they hadn't thought of. That's right. That's right. And it's in contact sport. It's entirely athletic. It requires the same mentality. You know, like you got to have a strong mind and both, I think, to really... And you have to think quickly.

Quick. Both of them are fast-paced. They're not slowing down for anybody. You have to... Their gut is the one that's talking a lot of the time that sends the command to the mind. I think personally, there's a lot of overlap. There's a lot that sport and art can borrow from each other. And both, when happening at their...

at their height, at their clearest, at their purest. Wow, both are so thrilling to watch. Like...

on the outside to watch them. You're like, how are they doing that? And the focus is so intense. Looking at any professional athlete play, you sit there and go, oh, they're so much older than I am. And you realize, no, I'm actually 50 years older than them. But their focus, their intensity makes them ageless. Yes, right. And when acting is done

well in the moment. It's because you are literally in that moment. Yes. You're not demonstrating a good idea you had last night. You're not, you are someplace you are no longer in control of and your focus and your intensity of truly being in this moment. Yes. It's ferocious. Yes. Yes. And it's as thrilling as, I don't know, downhill skiing. You know, you're leaning out over your skis and falling.

falling down the mountain. That's exactly right. And you've done the work and then on the day you gotta just let it go.

and live in that space of freedom. For me, it's 50-50. It really is. It's like, you know. Yeah, but you know, like you've trained, you've been to all the practices, you've done the weight program, the conditioning, lifting, you've been in the rehearsal, you know your lines, you know all this stuff. And then the magic, which none of us can create or prepare, right?

It happens only when you and the other person are now in the pressure of the moment, in the moment, and then it comes alive. And that's when the dance happens. That's when the cooking happens. That's when the food really smells good. I love our job. Oh, my gosh. I love it. I love it. Okay. You're in the fine arts department. Yes. And what happens?

I'm studying. I'm there for opera. Okay. Because I sing. I'm there for voice performance, which is where I went in. And in the morning...

I'm doing, you know, movement and we're rolling around and I'm loving it and I am so relaxed and in my nature. And that's the part from like the theater program that we're required to do. And then, you know, we leave that and we go to our Shakespeare class and I'm loving that and I'm vibing and I'm having a great time. And then,

In the afternoon, I'm in music history and we're learning about Rachmaninoff. And, you know, I'm learning about Mozart. And I start thinking to myself, like, I think I like the rolling around on the floor part more than this. Like, I think I like that part. And I knew truly on the third day of school,

I knew. I was like, I think I'm going to be in this program. But I was like, I think I'm going to be an actor when I leave here. I don't know that I'm going to be an opera singer. And when I really look back on it now, and I'm like, well, how did, because I love music and I love to sing. I still do. And then I really had to think about, well, how is it that I wound up there? And I said, you know,

What it is that I love about singing is I've always loved the lyrics. That's why those lyrics stick in my head. They stick. I know the lyrics to the theme song from Cheers since I'm a kid because I love those words. I just love them. Sometimes you want to go where everybody knows your name. You know, like...

I just love the story wrapped in songs. They are brilliant. Brilliant. They're brilliant. Brilliant. Right. Taking a break from all your worries sure could help a lot. You know what I mean? Like, those lyrics have always stuck to me. So then when I got into music and singing, I realized, oh,

Oh, words really move me. Even when I was studying opera, if it was in Italian and I was listening to a song, an aria, I don't necessarily understand the lyrics. Somehow I could feel them. Whether it's I'm listening to Maria Callas sing Visi d'arte from Tosca, the opera Tosca. I don't know what she's saying. But then...

When I'm hearing it, I look it up and then I see the translation. My heart could feel those words somehow. And I'm like, oh, she's begging. Yes, I could feel that. It's the words and the way that they're saying them. So then I started to fall in love with the theater and acting because that's what I love. I love reading the words on a page. I like

I love saying them. I like the way words make me feel. They are music. When written purposefully and well, they're like musical notes. Yes. They do play you. They play you. And I don't know how you feel, you know, like over your career, you've had such a wide range. Like...

It's the anchor to how to get in to the thing. Almost more than emotional preparation, which is all of that good stuff as well. But for me, it's like, once again, if they're consciously written, if I say them over and over and over and over again, not how I say them, but start really letting the words flow.

play me. It takes you places that you couldn't imagine, I think, on your own. Exactly right. Exactly right. I love words and it's like, it's why I've always loved books. Like, I start realizing I'm like, oh, there's connection here. I was like, I've always loved to read. I've loved always my whole life to read. I love story. I love imagination. For a long time, like, it used to be an escape to go somewhere else and like,

just disappear, you know, into some place else, somewhere else, someone else's story. And I feel like acting is a continuation of that, but in real life. Like, it's like taking that out of here and bringing it here. Athletic. It's athletic, for sure. It gets right into your body, which is very exciting. That's why I hate arthritis. It's getting in my way. Oh, sorry. You know.

Learn more at Instagram.com slash teen accounts.

NetCredit is here to say yes to a personal loan or line of credit when other lenders say no. Apply in minutes and get a decision as soon as the same day. Loans offered by NetCredit are lending partner banks and serviced by NetCredit. Applications subject to review and approval. Learn more at netcredit.com slash partner. NetCredit. Credit to the people. Okay, so you're not auditioning yet. You're not out in the real world. You graduate and you go to New York. Yeah. And?

You start getting parts in theater, right? I was doing theater in New York. Loving that and happy doing theater. But also, if I'm being honest, never letting myself dream of doing anything else because I just didn't

see the pathway or the invitation into the space. So I said, this is where I should stay. Sorry, that's such a... I didn't get an invitation to that space either. And I spent time in New York and did

Did some theater and all of that, but there wasn't a real invitation. There was no. Yeah. It's like I was like, I don't see me here anywhere in the TV space. I was like, OK, like this is maybe not going to go. And I'll just stay on this, you know, this this island here with with everybody who seems more open to me being here. Yeah.

But then I met a manager who was working with, who said, who was from Los Angeles. And she came to see a show I was doing at the time. And she wanted to work together. And she said that she thought I should give film and television a try. Much like that teacher in high school, she said, you know, I think you could do something there.

And I honestly think I only believed her because she was from Hollywood. I'd never been to Los Angeles at that point in my life, save for one track meet. And she was from Hollywood and she must know what she's talking about. So that allowed me to dream about

out loud. I had it back here, but wouldn't give it permission to be let out. But suddenly now she had a knowledge, I felt, of something that I would give myself the permission to consider it. So she said, we're not auditioning for any plays and we're not taking any offers. And I was like, I'm not getting offers for plays, lady, but okay. You know, so she's like, we're just doing film and television. So I started auditioning for film and television.

And I was getting no after no after no after no. And it's not that I hadn't had no in auditions or things for theater. I had. But because this was now the dream that I really wanted...

It cut deeper to hear no, because I actually allowed myself to consider that it was possible. And I was being told the exact word that I had imagined before she came into my life, I would be told. So I was like, she's wrong. She doesn't know. I was watching all my money disappear. I was going broke before my eyes. And it wasn't like I was making a great living. You

you know, doing theater. Like I wasn't living a fancy living, but I was my living and I was comfortable and one that I was happy and proud with. But I was watching, it was one that took me a long time to build up as well, my dad. And I was watching it sort of disappear before my eyes. And I auditioned for this show called Orange is the New Black in August of 2012. Didn't hear anything about it. Was going to an audition in September of

for a show called Blue Bloods. My friend Tom. Yes, for Blue Bloods. And I got, I was sent the wrong directions. I went to a different building and I wound up getting sent the new right directions. I'm 20 minutes late.

It's devastating because, you know, we're not supposed to be late for auditions. Sweating like crazy. I remember I was wearing this tan dress and it was a huge sweat mark in front of me. It's terrible. I'm standing there with this huge industrial fan in the lobby. I'm standing in front of the fan trying to cool down before I go in. Just like crazy. They bring me in.

I do my audition. I remember leaving and I was like, that was a really good audition, but you're not going to get the job because you were 20 minutes late. And this is the universe trying to tell you that this is not for you. You keep trying to make this for you and it is not for you. And I cried. Wait, wait, sorry. Yeah.

That was in your head? Yeah. That was you saying, okay, I'm reading the whispers here. This is... My self-talk. This was my self-talk going where I was like, this is not... You're trying to make something happen, you know, like that's not going to happen. Quote from like Mean Girls, stop trying to make fetch happen. Like it's not going to happen, you know, like...

I was trying, and I remember I was on the train, just here, I had three transfers to get back to my house. Tears, tears, tears, tears. I pulled out this Marianne Williamson prayer, surrender prayer that my friend Solis had given me, read it for the first time sincerely on the train, and I was just not...

at peace, but I had resolved myself that I was going to quit, which I'd never done in this business before. I had questioned. I had doubted. I'd been angry. I'd been devastated. I had begged and bargained.

All of those things. But I had never quit before in my heart. But I was like, we're quitting. It's a Friday. And I was like, on Monday, you're going to call your manager, call your agent, and say I'm out. I prayed. I was like, if you can find the way for me to go and become a lawyer, go to school and become a lawyer, I will go. I got home.

I ordered some wine. I ordered some sushi. Called my sister. I told her to come over. I have something to tell her. I was going to tell her I'm out. 5.45. I love this story. 5.45. My phone was on the table, the coffee table right in front of me. 5.45. My phone rings and it's my agent. And I was like, they're probably calling to be like, why were you so late? You know, and I was like, doesn't matter. I'm going to be, I'm quitting anyway. I was going to tell them on Monday. It's fine. I can tell them now.

I tell them, they pick up the phone and she's like, hi. I said, hi. She said, I have Joan, my manager. She's like, at the time, she's like, I have a Joan on the phone. I said, okay. Never had that before. And they're like, we have some news for you. And I was like, uh-huh. And they're like, do you remember that audition you went on for Orange is the New Black? I said, yeah. Remember the part you auditioned for?

I said, yeah, I auditioned for the track star, the girl playing the track star. And they're like, yep. Well, you didn't get it. And I was like, I am leaving this business at the exact right time because agents are now calling clients to tell them when they don't get jobs. I was like, this is exactly the right time to be getting out. And they said, well, you didn't get it, but they'd like to offer you another role.

And I said, are you joking? She said, no, I'm not joking. Tears. I told her, I was like, I was just leaving this business. I quit. You don't understand. I just quit. She's like, well, you're not quitting today. You know? And she said, it's for two, possibly three episodes. And it starts work next month. And in fact, I was so excited. I believe my first day of work was October 9th, if I'm not mistaken. 2012. And...

And then, by the way, sorry, you guys. And then I found out that I got the job on Bluebird. You're not leaving. I got that job. You're not going anywhere. I got that job, too. And so I was so excited. I was so stoked to the point.

In fact, still to this day, my alarm on my phone, which I set the night before my first day on Orange, which is Bill Withers' lovely day, is still my alarm now to this day. Because it was going to be a lovely, and I woke up like bouncing out of bed, like just so stoked. Did you, those three episodes, did you think you went,

I got this. I understand this part, even though... How soon did you know that it was going to be more than three episodes? I didn't know. I found out after I shot the third because I remember finishing the first two and I was just like a kid in a candy store, just so happy to be there. I was just so grateful and so thankful for this opportunity. And I remember I was being walked back to my dressing room

by one of the producers. And she said, okay, so we'll see you on the next one. And I was like, oh, I'm going to get to do that third episode. That's great. I'm going to get to do that third episode. I did not know that the conversation had already started about doing the season. I had no idea. So I finished that third episode, or I was in the middle, I think, of that third episode when I got the call and they said, they'd like to have you back.

for more. And I was like, "What?" Like, and I mean, even you asking me that question, it's making me think right now, what did I think beyond that? I think I just, I don't know what I thought beyond that. I think I just thought, "Oh, I'm gonna do a fourth episode." At some point, I did know I was gonna go till the end of the season. And quite honestly, when we wrapped, that was enough for me. Like, I was like, "Wow."

That was awesome. I just got to do that. And, you know, I guess we'll go figure out whatever, you know, play to go do next. You know, like that was all I thought.

Had you experienced any feedback or did you finish the season, shooting the season before it was aired so that you weren't experiencing people's reaction to Crazy Eyes? No, we finished because it's Netflix. It all drops at once. So we finished all of it.

I finished. I went on my first vacation, adult vacation that I took myself on. Went to go visit my cousin in Belgium and my best friend in Amsterdam. He was working there at the time. Came back to do a show at the Public Theater in New York. And from there, I went to the Sundance Theater Institute where they put you up in cabins up in the mountains. Yeah.

And we didn't have great service up there. Like service did not work when you're down on like in the rehearsal spaces. You had to wait till you got connected to the Wi-Fi up in the cabins. And while I was up there working on new plays with new writers and everything, the show dropped. And it was so wild because I had a Twitter, but like I didn't really...

do much with it. You know, I just had it for the show that I had been in previous, the year before. And it would be wild because...

you know, I would go down, be in rehearsal. I remember the first day. So my phone does not work. Like when I say it does not work, you don't get calls, nothing. You have to like wait till you're up in the cabin. Go down and then like, as you're, because everybody would walk up the mountain just to enjoy the view. I'd be walking up the mountain as I'm getting closer to the Wi-Fi. You know, like all of a sudden my phone would be like, bloop, bloop, bloop, bloop.

Because I still had notifications on. And it was like, 500 people followed you today on Twitter. And I'd be like, I must have had a real sassy tweet last night. You know what I mean? I must have really liked, you know, whatever. I had no idea it was because of the show. People were watching it. And then even when we were there, people were like, I started watching your show last night. And I was like,

Oh, because you have to remember, these are early days Netflix. Like in my mind, I had been walking around telling people that I was on a web series. Like that's what I was doing. I did not know really what Netflix was, you know, because it was so early.

But yeah, it is that feeling. I mean, you, you did that first time, you know, when you're in something, it's like, it's wild. It's a wild. For a cheers for me, which was the first time.

It didn't really hit until after the third season. I mean, you'd get people going, oh, it's a nice show, like it, like it, like it. But as soon as it was syndicated, which was the then equivalent of Netflix dropping everything, all of a sudden...

you know, you could watch Cheers every night. So, the, the literally, the energy, you'd walk out on the street and you'd go, what the fuck? Yeah. And even without people staring at you, you could just feel all this energy coming your way. And it was, it was lovely. And,

It's shocking a little bit. And Cheers is a massive success, too. And you're leading that show that is a huge titan, you know, a massive...

Not only just... Not quite yet. Oh. Not third season. It was fourth season that Bill Cosby and the Cosby Show dragged the entire night into the top ten. He was such a juggernaut, that show, that everything that followed the NBC lineup that night, he was, I think, eight o'clock, just went into the top ten as a result. Wow. Yeah. Wow. Did you expect it? I don't think...

I think we were so supported by Les and Glenn Charles, who created it with Jimmy Burrows. Because we were dead last. The first season, there was one episode that was like,

As Jimmy likes to say, 75th out of 70. It was, you know, we were truly dead last and it took us a while to catch on. But they always said, you're doing great work, you all. It's great. It's wonderful. We're very excited. So we were kind of sheltered from the fact that it was possible that we could have gotten canceled if NBC had had another show to put in our place. Yeah. How did you do with fame? How did you do with recognition? Um...

If I'm being honest, I was uncomfortable with it. I wasn't, and still am. I was very uncomfortable with... It's a weird thing to compute because it's like, firstly, our show came out and it was a weekend, right?

That it went into existence. So it was all of a sudden, people watched 12 hours of you. Over the weekend. Over the weekend. Yeah.

And then suddenly, you know, it wasn't... Built up slowly. Yeah. So it was just like, on a Friday, I'm buying groceries at the grocery store and like digging for change and nobody's thinking about it to like now, like everybody's holding out a quarter. You know what I mean? Like that kind of thing. It's a little different. And I'm not... It's just a... It's a wild thing to put in your mind that you...

People know you who you don't know. I appreciated, I'm thankful, firstly, let me say, I'm very thankful that

That it was always positive. You know, I didn't, knock on wood, have a negative experience with anybody on the street or on the train or in my neighborhood or anything like that. But I was at the time so not really knowing what to say when somebody did want to say something. I clammed up and became real shy and...

Mary's that way. Mary has that same relationship with fame. Okay. Is she still? Because I'm hoping to... I'm like, when is I going to...

mellow. It depends. Mary has a real hard time in parties with small talk. I mean, I have dents in my finger with her clamping down on my hand that has my wedding ring on it. With walking into parties, she's so nervous. And it's mostly because of small talk. So if people approach her with

if they're serious, they really want to talk, then she's fine and welcomes it. And if it's direct, if it's that kind of sneaking a photo or, you know, yeah. Are you comfortable with that? Yeah, I love it. You are. I'm shallow enough. Yeah.

But here's what I did. I was, sounds funny, but real. I was blessed to learn early on. I was blessed to realize that all of that focus is like, it's energy. I mean, it's,

genuine energy, not just a compliment. It's this massive amount of energy coming your way. And if you just absorb it, you're like that four-year-old toddler in the middle of a group of adults who are all going, ooh, look how wonderful. That toddler will spin out, overstimulated by all this focus. And I've seen other actors get overstimulated by all that focus and make poor choices to deal with that.

I somehow, series of events, whatever, I realized, oh, I can take that energy and deflect it into something I care about. So for me, it came about roughly the same time that I became an ocean advocate for some...

Not some strange reason, but I, you know, oceans became important and defending and restoring and all of that. So I could say, thank you so much. I'd love to sign your autograph. Thanks for watching. Cheers. Please come in to the tent and let me introduce you to this marine biologist who has something important to say. So I became a

a spokesperson for something I cared about and I learned a great deal about as I went and I surrounded myself with incredibly brilliant men and women. So it was a part of my life that was huge for me and it made celebrity

kind of a cool thing. It was like, it's a double-edged sword. It's not always great and all of that, but it was a tool that I made. I made use of people's opinion of me as much as they did, you know? So it was like, okay, I got it. There is this celebrity thing, but I know what to do with it. It doesn't mean anything about me, really. Well, some days it does. Yeah, yeah. But using it as a tool, that

is powerful. I'm going to go home and meditate on that for a minute. The road is good. Yes. Comes from you. That is your name. That's what it means. Yes. Correct? That's correct. And you wrote it around the same time that your mother became ill.

Or before? Before. I started it before. The idea of it coming to life came before she became ill. And the book that I had signed up to write and was going to tell was, you know,

My mom always had these funny quotes and inspirational lines and was this very, you know, active, funny little lady and...

I was going to tell that story like, oh, look at my mom. She came from Nigeria. American stream realized, blah, orange is the new black. Crazy eyes. The end. You know, like that was the book. And the book I wrote was not the book I started. Instead, as we were collecting, you know, funny anecdotes and things, my mom went into the hospital and

and was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. And my mom, after being diagnosed with cancer, it became very clear that the stories were going to change. And it became extremely clear that she might not see this book come to life. And even like, you know, it's funny because I have recordings of her, you know, like early recordings where...

We're talking and she's telling a story. And then the understanding of time, you can feel its size and sound and shape shift. Because early recordings before she's diagnosed, it's like she'll be telling a story. I have to go, you know, my whatever Ellen is on or, you know, I'm going to my Zumba class or something, you know. And then all of a sudden,

Time became very different and had a very different weight. And now she wanted to complete a story she started. Because, I don't know, I feel like she knew that this was an account of some kind of her life. And I think also she wanted me to really make sure that I got the lesson and knew the story of her life. Yeah.

So yeah, that's a strange gift that came out of this experience because I got all of the stories from her and her life and my life firmly on record and was able to synthesize it into this so that

She lives on and our relationship also lives on, you know, despite the fact that she had to move to heaven, you know. She's still here, still with us. My daughter gets to read this one day and she will know her grandma, you know. And I'm thankful for that. And she'll know her mother too. And I loved...

doing this book and writing it because I really was able to chart the map that led me here out really clearly from start to finish, you know, and to really see what was given, what was sacrificed, what was decided, what was fought for.

I get to know my mom, you know, she used to say, you know, remember where you're from and whose blood runs in your veins, especially your mommy's blood. She'd say that, your mommy's blood, your mommy's blood. You know, I know what blood runs in these veins and the strength that I actually have because I've seen it worn on her before. I'm so grateful for that.

Uzo Amaka. Yeah. The road is good. That's right. It's the literal translation of Nigerian. Yes, it means the road is good. It means a road of purpose. And it also... It doesn't mean life is good. No. It's not a platitude of, hey, life's good. No. It's kind of the opposite. It's more nuanced than that. It means the journey was hard, but it's worth it.

Meaning like if you were going to come to my house to visit and we said three o'clock and you got in, you see you have a flat and then you got to wait for the tow to come and change your tire. And then you get in the car and the traffic the whole way. And then all of a sudden out of nowhere, how can it be in Los Angeles? It's snowing, but here we are. And there's now rain and hail and it's bumper to bumper. And at 345, you showed up.

But the sun came up right as you rang the doorbell. I'm unfazed. And we wound up having a great, you know, the day is going to be beautiful. And I would say to you, how was the trip here? And you would say, it was hard, but it was worth it because I'm here now with you. That's what it means. I love that.

You know, it's marked with purpose is also what the name means. And, you know, my father's father was Uzadimma, which is the male version of Uzlamaka. So there was that one piece of it. But my mother put that name on me because, you know, she had, my mother had survived polio.

Your mom? My mom. She had survived polio. She had lived through... In Nigeria? In Nigeria. Wow. She had survived polio, went on to become a tennis champion in Nigeria. She survived the Biafran Civil War. She had lost her first husband by the age of 36 with two children, came back to the United States, got her master's, married my father.

and had me. And so to say that the journey was hard, but it was worth it because you're here now. L'zaamaka. Wow. Do you hear from... Can I ask you some... Yeah. Perhaps one of my business questions? Do you still hear from your mom occasionally? Yes. Very cool. I do. Do you talk about it ever? I heard from her, you know, I was such a busy bee when immediately she passed. Um...

And was just on autopilot to get things done. And the day came for her wake. And I remember I could not sleep the night before at all. And because I had kept myself so busy, which I think was intentional to just not have to think, you know, um,

I remember all of a sudden in the middle of the night, I was so anxious all of a sudden because even though I had been to visit her at the home where she was staying, I don't know why suddenly now it felt like it was going to be different or something that day. And I was in my mind just not sleeping well. So anxious is the only word I can think of. And all I can say, it's like air or a breath of

coming into my lungs and into my mind. My mom came to me and she said, Uzo, you are settled. And she said it just like that. And I'm sleeping and I remember it was like, I woke up like air, not air that I had breathed, but air breathed into my lungs is the feeling. And she said it just like that. And it was like a calm, a peace,

beyond my understanding, came over me. And I don't even know exactly what that meant, you are settled. But I do know I felt like my spirit felt settled in that moment and how I heard it was like, you can do this. And I did.

And since then, I've seen her in Hummingbirds. That's crazy. Because we, sorry. Yeah, no, go ahead. Mary sees her mom in Hummingbirds. Yeah. I mean, hummingbirds that come and hover, you know, three feet from your face. Yes. For a long time. Yes. And then take off. Hummingbirds. I'll tell you a quick story. I'll tell you one, right? Here's one.

We had a wedding that my mom was at and was able to attend, but it was COVID. So it was in the backyard of my sister's house and it was absolutely beautiful. After COVID ended, we decided to have a wedding ceremony for all of our family. You know, we both come from, my husband and I, a big family.

So we're living here in LA at the time. I've seen hummingbirds. And as I was preparing for the wedding, the traditional Nigerian traditional ceremony and what we call the white wedding with the white... I'm sorry, and your mom has passed. She's passed at this point. And I would watch TV on YouTube videos for traditional wedding ceremonies, things that I wanted to borrow or incorporate in terms of dress or music, this and that.

And over here on this side of, diagonally across from the TV is the doors to go outside into the backyard. And we have these curtains to pull closed under the pergola.

And on one of the curtains, the wood was separated. So there was like a little string that hung down. And I kid you not, you guys, the entire time, every Saturday, because it would be Saturdays when I would have time to do this, to sit down and look. Every Saturday, the entire time, I would set up TV, put on the YouTube to start looking at traditional art.

you know, weddings and Nigerian wedding ceremonies, a hummingbird would come and sit on that string and appear as though it was watching the TV with me as I would go through these things. And I was like, I think that's my mom. Doesn't come anymore. Just during that time. And I would talk, I'd leave the door open. It would never come in or anything, but it would sit there and it would just be looking at the TV. I'd be like, mom, do we like that dress?

Do we like that one? Do we want to change? Every Saturday. True story. Mary has a life full of those stories because she... I think you need to pay attention. And it's not like you can take it to court and prove it, but that's what faith is. And that's what mystery is, really. But we've had many of those in our life. Yeah.

And they're all...

I don't know. Very magical. Anyway. They never leave us. No. No. And why would you think they do? You know, what is... Now I'm babbling over my pay grade. No. But you know there's some branch of physics that will describe to you that everything, thoughts, even your thoughts have weight. That's right. They are matter. That's right. You know, energy is matter. So just because the body gives out, which makes total sense, what...

That energy that is you, just what goes away? I don't think so. I don't think so either. I've had the, and I do call it a privilege. I don't know if this is true for you. Now having a child, I have had the privilege of watching life leave a room and I have watched life come into it. And you cannot convince me to your point, this word of faith.

That there is not something greater that we just don't know. I have seen them both. That a door could never open and a person could suddenly be in this room and a door could never open and someone can leave it. I don't think they leave and just, that's it. They never leave us.

I know it enough at this point. I know. And that's just one. Those are just two stories that I'm telling you. I know like I know. I have felt her. I didn't even know people had a feeling when I've needed her. I'm not saying she comes every time when I'm trying to decide which pair of jeans to wear. I'm busy. I'm doing something more important. That's not what we're doing. She's coming. She comes when I think the heart knows you need her. Yeah.

And I'm like, I didn't even know we had a feeling and I have felt her. Here's my big hope. There's a campfire. We can all sit around and laugh at ourselves and each other. There's got to be a version of that. Yes.

I had the best time talking to you. I consider it truly a privilege. This was a gift. Thank you. I can't wait for my signed copy of your book. Yeah. And I really can't wait for you to hang out with my wife, Mary Steenburgen. I honor her and you by saying you're kindred spirits. Thank you. Yeah. This is a true, true, true, true joy. Thank you for the time.

Uzo Aduba just left the room, so I'm kind of full of what an amazing hour and a half that was. I feel like I've made a new friend in life. Her memoir, The Road is Good, How a Mother's Strength Became a Daughter's Purpose, is in stores everywhere.

And I really encourage you to go out and get it. Anyway, I'm still kind of full here. Special thanks to Team Coco and a big hello to Woody. I miss you, buddy, as always. If you can, give us a kind rating. Not you, Woody. The listeners. Give us a kind rating and a review on Apple Podcasts and be sure to subscribe on your favorite podcast app. We'll see you next time where everybody knows you're mine.

You've been listening to Where Everybody Knows Your Name with Ted Danson and Woody Harrelson, sometimes. The show is produced by me, Nick Liao. Executive producers are Adam Sachs, Colin Anderson, Jeff Ross, and myself. Sarah Federovich is our supervising producer. Our senior producer is Matt Apodaca. Engineering and mixing by Joanna Samuel with support from Eduardo Perez. Research by Alyssa Grahl.

talent booking by Paula Davis and Gina Batista. Our theme music is by Woody Harrelson, Anthony Gann, Barry Steenburgen, and John Osborne. Special thanks to Willie Navarro. We'll have more for you next time for Everybody Knows Your Name.

Are your alterative colitis symptoms proving difficult to manage?

Tramphya, Gacelcomab, can help you manage the cycle of UC symptoms. At one year, many patients taking Tramphya achieved clinical remission, and some patients also achieved endoscopic remission. Individual results may vary. Tramphya is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis. Serious allergic reactions and increased risk of infections may occur.

Before treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and TB. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or if you need a vaccine. Ask your doctor if Tramfiya can help you manage the cycle of UC symptoms. Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit tramfiyradio.com.