Dear Caitlin Flanagan and Suzy Weiss: A Free Press Advice Special!
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From the Free Press, this is Honestly. I'm Susie Weiss, the younger but better sister of Barry Weiss.

Never before have people felt more comfortable weighing in on other people's lives. This is one of the biggest mistakes I see people early in their careers make when they're communicating. Eight things that I wish somebody would have told me in my early 20s. Number one, you're going to block your blessings trying to keep the wrong people around. So if you want your kids to eat well, you have to teach them what the food does in their body so they understand it.

So if you just set a boundary with your toxic parent and now they're throwing a fit, this is what you do. Here's five rules for crypto investing that can make you a lot of money if you play your cards right. Number one, you must not be attached to money. You have to kill the poverty mindset.

The reason why you're angry all the time, why you don't practice self-care, why you feel guilty about getting time for yourself, is all because you still need inner child healing. What diet to do, what to wear, how to make yourself attractive to the opposite sex, whether or not to put money in that new cryptocurrency, if you should let your kids self-soothe, if you should let your parents drive, and on and on. But most of it, this endless supply of advice, it's actually pretty bad.

Weekly popular advice columns like Dear Abby... ...from a man who wrote me and care of the Milwaukee Sentinel. His wife doesn't understand him, but his bookkeeper does. ...and Ask E. Jean... The biggest man-handling trick of all is to know that there is no trick. ...have vanished.

In their place is finger wagging, political posturing, and straight up bad tips. A recent New York Times reader sought out advice on how to deal with her daughter, who's in a polyamorous relationship with a married man. She wrote, "'My daughter tells me she would like to bring this man on our family trip to Greece this year. It may be petty, but I don't want to foot the bill for another woman's husband. I don't see any way this relationship can lead to my daughter's happiness.'"

Should I lay out my boundaries and risk my daughter not joining on vacation? Instead of saying what any sane person would, which would be, get this man as far away from your daughter as possible, the New York Times advised the mother to shut up and do better. This is about respecting your adult daughter's choices. As a show of respect, read up on polyamory before you broach the subject with her. The thing is, we're in an advice desert, but we've never been in greater need of good advice.

Some people consult friends or therapists or tarot card readers when they need direction. Other people pray to God or go to confessional. Many people seek out the advice of a mentor. I like to visit this woman who lives on a hill in Pasadena and makes a mean onion dip and who I happen to be sitting next to right now. Her name is Caitlin Flanagan. Yes.

Yes, it's all true. And you are welcome to move into the house in Pasadena. So I can advise you constantly on your every choice. It would be a dream. You may have read Caitlin in The Atlantic or maybe you haven't heard of her, in which case I would tell you to shut up, do the work and do better. But either way, Caitlin is someone who she has her finger on the pulse constantly.

She knows what's up, whether it's her essays, her books, her Twitter account. The woman's always right, even if you don't realize she's right in the moment. It will come to you. It will come to you, exactly. It hits you in the face like...

Oh my God, she was right. She also has what Larry David calls stage four wisdom, or maybe it's just that she's very old. Yes. Which do you think it is? How have you honed this incredible wisdom you have, Caitlin? Well, I've had stage four cancer for a long time, a strange thing to say, but if you can't take an advice from someone who's had stage four cancer for 20 years and is still living, who are you going to take advice from? So...

I used to think I had a stage four wisdom because I had faced death and face it so closely. But now I'm 62. So I think it's just old women know a lot. Yeah.

Well, you're putting it in positive terms now, but you also once said to me, you're like, you know, I have stage four. If you need someone killed, I've got nothing to lose. That's for friends and family. That's the friends and family policy. Because there is like an element of like, well, what are you going to do to me? What are you going to do to me? It's a superpower. It's like when we were at the very early days after my mother parents died and

And my sister said, well, do we need to pay all their credit cards? And somebody said, what are they going to do, ruin their credit? LAUGHTER

Yeah, it's like they don't have FICO where they're going, baby. So, Caitlin, I wanted to have you here today on Honestly. We asked Honestly listeners to send in their most pressing questions, and they sent in questions about everything from relationships to jobs to politics to children to animals. I don't even know what that means. And it's selfish for – They're like people, but –

They had less political clout. Are you ready to answer their questions? I'm always ready. Let's do it. I had radiation yesterday. I'm glowing. Let's do it. We're raring to go. We are. So our readers, they sent in voice memos, emails, tweets. We'll even have some live callers. But we'll have a quick break and then we'll be back for this very special episode of Honestly with Caitlin Flanagan. Stay with us.

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Kaitlin, let's go to our first voicemail. First up, Rich from Michigan. My question is, how do I deal in these troubled times with two friends of mine? One on the right who will, for purposes of political work, accept anything that the Republican Party feeds out, and I've left the Republican Party.

From the left, one of my longest and dearest friends, very progressive, who considers my other friend and others like him to be deplorable and shouldn't be part of our democracy. Here I am in the middle, getting banged about from the middle all the time, even though I consider myself a pre-Trump conservative. Help me out, ladies, please. Thank you.

Well, these friends are breaking under the pressure. And this guy's a real man. So he's reaching out to a couple of ladies. A couple of ladies, exactly. Here's the thing. I think these Trump elections, they're a little bit like people with porn addictions, where the first one, ooh, we saw some wild things happening, and that was more than we ever wanted to see. Second election, now we're going darker. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Third election, darker. It's like,

Everybody has to display, everybody has to show one another these kind of extreme willingness to excommunicate friends and to be the big man in this case. And the people who always win, and I'm not saying in any given election, but in life...

They're the people who stand calm and certain and steadfast. And I would say it's not your job to worry about these BFFs and, you know, are they going to get along together or whatever. You don't have to listen to their poison, but if whatever it is that you all do, you know, that your friendship's based on, I don't know what kind of manly things the men's friendships do. I don't know. My husband, it's a lot of...

playing tennis and watching basketball and playing some basketball. So whatever it is you normally do with these guys, you can do. But, you know, what we're all called upon now to do is... Well, we're not called upon. We can do whatever we want. We can make a total ass of ourselves, which these friends are doing. And we all have friends who are doing it. Or we can just say, you know, we're going to be the one who didn't think we were going to get hit by a comet this time. We're going to play our cards a little more carefully, a little more calmly. And...

I promise you, from stage four, and from the ripe old age of 62, and from a life of reading the poets, everything that happens that's of the moment that's in front of us is

dust almost as soon as it happens. And anything that you have in your life that is a kind of prayer or meditation, but no, if it's a kind of prayer, if it's a kind of connection with something that's so much larger than the moment, you're actually on the right track. You actually know what's happening. The person who knows that Kamala had been chosen four weeks ago, but they knew if they announced it now, she'd have like two uninterrupted weeks of great press before the Democratic convention.

They don't know anything. And Jesus was on my toast this morning. I saw that. It's like a paranoia. But they don't know anything. And God knows political pundits don't know anything more than anyone else knows what's true and what's rich in this life.

This is the stage four. It's something so much bigger. And I think the closest we'll ever get to it is things like our deep friendships and our family members and prayer, if that's part of it. And I would think for all of us that have these friends who just...

Their cope is not A+. You know, it's just like they're trying out for the school play every four years of like, I'm the most committed. You know, we might keep them at a gentle bit of a boundary, a gentle arms move. We don't ask them over to dinner or whatever men do, fly fishing with each other. But, you know, we just stay the steady course. We know what's right. We know who we'll vote for. But the best thing we can do, this is it.

Anything we can do to preserve friendships across this crappy four months.

is going to pay dividends because it's probably going to be a really hard time. And we're going to need the people that we have long-term connection with and who know us and who know the things we've done for them over the years and who won't let us down. Don't blow up your lifeboats. Well, Caitlin's talking about dust and the poets and remaining steady. I just have, you'll always hate your best friend's best friend. True, true, true. They're the worst.

I'm like, when my best friend is like, oh, I'm actually going, you know, away for a weekend with my other best friend. I'm like, I am sulking for days. If you don't know what a superlative is, go back to grammar. There's one best friend. There's one best friend. There's one best friend. But sometimes your best friend has other best friends. That's not acceptable. Best friends don't let best friends have other best friends. Yes.

And that's what I want to say to Rich from Michigan. I'm like, who's your best friend, buddy? Who's your best friend? Because, I mean, I never talk about politics with my friends. I seek out friends who, like, don't know who the president is. Right. They're more fun. Yes. And they're a good time. They're good time girls. Right. So I think what Rich is going through is not a matter of religion or politics, but actually it's like when you meet your cousin's other cousins. Yes. It's like, excuse me? Right. This is, yeah. Yeah. It's like, this is wrong. These two belong apart. Yeah. Yeah.

You know, you're not mediating. Never the twin shall meet. Exactly. I think he should have friends on further sides of the spectrum. Exactly. Because your friends shouldn't be your friends. Every dinner party should be a one-person dinner party. Yes, exactly. It's like having friends is like having a hundred mistresses and you have to juggle. Yes.

Exactly. But if there is an alternative, it's not to blow up your lifeboats and keep a steady head and not have burner phones. Well, I'll just say what I wanted to say. Be a man. It sounds like Rich is pretty close to being a man except for asking the ladies for help. But even that I think was maybe kind of a play for you, Susie. Oh, interesting. Because he's single. I felt that he had a very sexy voice.

And I felt like it was funny. There was something in his voice that made me feel he was funny. So Rich from Michigan, on next week's program, this is a dating show wrapped in an advice show. But in the middle, it's Fear Factor. Exactly. And there's sex. Yeah, exactly.

Okay, so our next question is an interesting one about parenting. Hi, this message is for Caitlin. I am calling about my daughter wanting a phone. She's 12 years old. All of her friends have one and it goes against everything I believe in to give her one, but I'm afraid she's going to be excluded from things.

I just don't know what to do. And it would be great to know, you know, what the executives at Apple, et cetera, are telling their kids. Anyway, thank you. As an Apple executive, we normally suggest three to four phones at the age of 12 for different moods, for security. So as a disinterested party from that, he's going to be excluded from things.

And a lot of those things are things that you should do whatever you can to exclude your daughter. She'll be excluded from getting an eating disorder. She'll be excluded from getting bullied. She'll be excluded from developing weird ideas about what she should do for men and her body. I would say number one at that age is the...

what her expectations of sex are going to be like, what being a sexual person is like. But the mom has a very real question. It is a 12-year-old girl back in the early...

19th century is when I was a girl at the one-room schoolhouse. You're really listening in and the popular girls, they always seem to know all this stuff and you don't know it if, let's just say you weren't a popular girl, what things are doing. You know, you hear about things and people are going to be constantly, constantly, constantly talking about memes

TikToks that they've seen and things that are going on in the culture. And she'll be left out. And if she's not in a peer group where other parents are doing that, it's going to be hard. And in the end, you're not going to believe this.

There are studies on this, quite a few of them. Kids who have had stricter parenting, when they're even by college age, they'll laugh about it and be a little bit proud of it, and they'll get together. Brene Brown did a bunch of studies on this where she'd get a group of kids together and say, well, whose parents were strictest? And kids would kind of start laughing and saying, obviously these weren't abusive parents, but saying the things that their parents required of them, and that she could tell very quickly that the kids had not just...

respect for their parents, but they could see in these actions that their parents had a deep love for them and had done these things. So I don't think we should be afraid of doing things that our child won't like. But I think you have to remember if she's in a school and every girl has one of these and everybody knows what's going on, and any halfway house you come up, this is why it's so frustrating. You can't say, well, you'll be allowed to use it for half an hour in the kitchen. This stuff, it's

It's everywhere. Like they're available on devices all around the place. She'll see a lot of it anyway. She will. So I think it's the statement of not giving her the phone is a powerful statement of protection that she won't quite read correctly for a few years, but it's worth making. And she'll find the leaks around it. And those leaks will include her enough. Yes. I remember I wasn't allowed to watch PG-13 movies. So I begged my friends to like tell me the

lots of them. But I can be like, that was so crazy and saw five. But like, I never saw like there were there is always something where if your parents have a strict rule, you'll find your way around it. But you'll always feel left out that, you know, we couldn't invite you to the sleepover because we want to watch Mean Girls and you're not allowed. Oh, my God. I know. I mean, the sad, the tragic thing is, no, you can't protect your 12 year old child from all that whole cesspool. You just can't. Yeah. But

making whatever effort you can is sending your child a message that my parents don't think this is right for me to see. So that even when they're seeing some really extreme porn or something on somebody's phone, at least there's a voice saying, no, my mother and father, they don't think

this is the right way for me to be. They don't think I should be seeing. They see a different way for me. So she won't be able to really enjoy the rule breaking because her parents are good. Well, no, she'll be reassured, I think, on some deeper level that, no, this isn't the world that is the whole world and everybody's in favor of this world. And it's so scary to me. But even my parents are fine with me seeing this world. Totally.

Also, the 12-year-old girl of it all. It's like there is nothing more powerful, dangerous, vulnerable in this world than a teenage girl. No. It's like it would be like giving the Hulk creatine. It's like why would you empower this really dangerous creature who doesn't even know their own power? She can't control it. No one...

Other subject, but the power to move on with this gender affirmation and people know what they are from a very young age. I don't think you're giving enough credit for the teenage girl who's just figuring everything out in life and gets to try on all sorts of ideas instead of saying, no, she's a set creature. This is who she is.

And we're going to finalize that for her. So I think young girls have just really been treated harshly in this current world for all sorts of reasons. It's true. OK, we have another question about teens and phones, but I actually think it begs a different answer. So let's hear that one. OK. OK, so I have a stepdaughter. She's 13 years old.

She is going into eighth grade, and it'll be the third year in a row where she's the only kid without a smartphone. Now, she's my stepdaughter. She spends half of her life with her dad and half of her life with me and her mom.

her dad wants to get her the smartphone we don't want to do the smartphone we want to do the hey when you turn 14 you can get a job and pay for your own smartphone then she'll learn the value of a dollar etc what do you think we should do her dad's making a strong push and i feel like he might just do it secretively get her a smartphone we don't have good communication with him it's good enough

Anyways, voicemail is probably running out. Caitlin, I love you. I love you too. I mean, we knew it was coming. I love you too. And for that, I'm going to give you the best advice on this you could get anywhere.

You're the stepdad. Stay the hell out of this. There is going to be shrapnel flying on all sides. Bio dad, real dad, whatever extent he's a part of the picture, he has figured out the way into his girl's heart and he's going to win her affection in this moment. Mom's going to be furious. If you're siding publicly with mom, you're going down.

You are going down. You're not even going to be around to pistol whip the wounded. You are going to be dead. Obviously, behind closed doors, you can support your wife, but don't put your name on this. And also, you may not even be ready. I may have to chop her in because this is a level of ninja marital advice.

And also, keep accounts clean. This isn't about, oh, when you're 14, you can earn the money and learn the value of a dollar. People here aren't going to war over the value of a dollar. They're going to war over whether or not she's going to have this smartphone. And what's going to happen is...

Dad's going to be the short-term hero because he is going to get her one and not tell you guys about it. And that's all going to blow up in a way that's very hurtful to her. And she'll start realizing what's going on. But stay out of the battlefield, my friend. Please. I beg you. You don't have to be a hero. This guy clearly, he doesn't want to be a stepdad. He wants to be a dad who stepped up. Yeah. But, I mean, yeah, not your circus, not your monkeys at a certain point. No, no.

No, no. And also it's like, put the, you know, what do they always say? The oxygen mask on yourself first. You know, this is going to be a long, bloody war and you'll be needed to, you know, mend these wounded people. Also keep your powder dry because there will be a moment where you will need to go out guns blazing when the dad says she could go to a concert and you, where you really will need to put your foot down. And I would say that's still mom's job. Still mom's job. Wow. How old is she? How old is she? She's 13.

I wonder how long they've been married. Yeah. It kind of doesn't matter, though. It doesn't matter. Don't. Because, you know, the thing about a divorce is it doesn't sound that there's any estrangement between the daughter and the father. It doesn't sound like, you know, maybe the custody is mostly with the mother. But this man is that girl's father just as much as the woman is that girl's mother. And his voice counts. His beliefs count. Whatever he's thought through about social isolation or all of that count equally.

Every but as much as the mother's does. And he is to be respected as the father. Only 50%. He's totally wrong. So I'm not going to respect him here in the inner sanctum. But don't undermine a child's father.

as the stepfather. You will not win. And don't be a hero. Yeah. You know what I mean? There's no heroics here. There's not a hero to be had. I completely agree. Okay, good. Even though I think the smartphone's the worst idea in the world, I think it's going to do all these bad things to her. This man needs to protect himself. Protect himself. Before that. Okay, so we're ready for our first live caller. We have a woman on the line. She doesn't want to share her name, but she wants to talk about an argument she had with a sibling.

Hello. Hi. How are you? So my question is kind of a tough one, and I'll just go ahead and ask it. And the gist of it is, is it better to be a good person who does terrible things or a terrible person who does good things?

And the context of my question is an issue that I'm having between an elderly parent and a sibling, and that the sibling has financially been relying upon my mother for many, many years, and to a great extent that I've only learned recently. And during a recent study,

discussion or not really a confrontation. And I want to clarify, I'm not talking terrible things like kicking puppies or abusing people physically. I just mean like financial reliance. And during this conversation with my sibling in which I was really upset and basically saying, how could you continue to do this? Because now this has substantially impacted our parents'

life through retirement. And she does live on a fixed income like a lot of people do. And it was blurted out to me that I was probably not a very good person, certainly not a very good Christian. And I simply said, well, you're a better person than I am. And I came home and asked my husband that very question I just asked you. And he said, that's ridiculous to even contemplate or think about because people are very complicated.

But I can't get past that and thinking maybe maybe I am the problem. Maybe I am a terrible person. And so that's that's my question.

That's just a really sad story. It's a really sad story of your sibling. You know, it is abusive to an elderly person to get involved into their finances for your own gain or just your own use when that's going to affect them deeply in their retirement. It sounds like you both are

had that fight where both people say ridiculous things because they're so hurt and words come out that don't really mean what either of you really truly believe about the other? Could that be possible? I think so because we were very, very close as kids being raised in the same household, the same situation.

And I think that's why it's so perplexing to both of us that neither can see the other's side. And it was put to me that, you know, I'm a Christian, a serious Bible study, a churchgoer. Why can't I forgive and forget? And my funny reply to that is, think how much worse I would be if I did not do those things. Right. Of course. Of course. Yeah.

I mean, I know why you can't forgive and forget because you're feeling like I did everything right. I paid the bills. I was careful with my finances and really attentive to my kids. And like the thanks I get is that you're, you know, either financially decimating our parents or even causing them an iota of stress. I think that's.

I hear that you're a Christian, but if it's any consolation in Judaism, it's less about, you can switch teams here. It's about actions more than, you don't have to believe in God to be a Jew. I understand it's very different in the Christian faith. No, not necessarily. Oh, really? I think God kind of believes in us. So we go with that. Oh, I love that. I love that. But I would say that the only thing you have control over right now, the only thing that

is obviously your own behavior. And the deepest answer is to go through the fight or the harsh words and to think if there's anything you said that you genuinely regret.

And that you could express a genuine apology for not expecting to be forgiven, but just saying that you regret it, not bringing up her words or her actions. And to say that, you know, which is true no matter what happens, that you two are sisters and you have an unbreakable bond.

and that you love her. And then your side of the street is clean. Oftentimes, the other person, and you don't do this out of any brinksmanship, but oftentimes the other person will, there'll be a little bit of a softening into their ability to think and reflect on what they've done or what they've said, but not always. But then after that, you just turn her over to God. God's in charge of this relationship. God's in charge of her heart about all of this.

And you don't have to carry all this because now you've done every right thing. If you've also find some way to kind of protect your mom's or your parents' finances at this point, you've done every right thing. It's not your assignment anymore. It's in God's hands. And that's where she needs to be. And it's a good place for her to be and for all of us.

I really appreciate that. I feel I respect both of you and I love both of you and your writing that you do. So I'm so happy that I got this opportunity. And maybe this was God's plan or action to have people that I respect other than my poor husband, who is tired of listening to all of this conversation back and forth in these very high philosophical questions on good and bad and people and

And I think that it's helpful to hear from someone completely outside your sphere that that's a viable choice because today so many people are not faith-based, be it Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism, be it whatever their religious background is. So many people are very reluctant to say,

That is something that you may never know the answer to. Only God will. And to sit with that and be comfortable, but not let it stop your joy. Yeah. And your sense of comfort that you are doing the right things and you're behaving as a person of faith and taking accountability for any hurt that you might also have caused. And then you just go forth. There's nothing else you can do. It's in God's hands now. Yeah.

But we're secretly on your side. You're totally right. Nice talking to you. Thank you so much. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. Okay, we have our next caller on the line. His name is Martin. Martin, are you with us? Yes, I'm here. Can you hear me okay? Yeah, we can hear you. Yeah. Great. What's going on?

So my question was about making friends later in life. Not that I'm very old, but I'm 36. And two and a half years ago, I relocated from Norway to the Midwest. And I live in St. Louis with my lovely wife, and I'm very happy to be here with her. But one challenge has been making friends outside of her friend circle and kind of striking out on my own and just meeting people who have similar interests and hobbies and

And, yeah, and I'm wondering if you have any advice or outside-the-box thinking on that topic because I found that as I get older, it gets more challenging for some reason. Well, that is true. As people get older, you know, all the different sort of ways that we make friends, we're thrown into school groups or neighborhoods with our families, and then we get in relationships and we're kind of more settled with that other person. Susie, what do you – you're closer to his age.

much closer than I am. What do you say? I mean, it's funny because I like assume coming from Norway, your hobbies are like

plein air painting and you know going on mountainous hikes and I'm like you better get ready to eat food out of buckets if you're gonna make friends in the Midwest which is its own really fun thing. The hiking part is true. I do miss the mountains. You miss the mountains yeah I mean it's I'm sure it's I mean it's also just really hard to move across the world even if it's for someone you love.

One thing I do, this is what I do to flirt with people because I don't really have those womanly skills you discussed, is I will go up to someone I want to be friends with and I'll say, did you go to the University of Michigan? Get out. Yeah. Yeah. I'll go, did you go to Michigan? And they'll say no. But I went to Princeton, whatever. And then maybe Martin has higher ethics. Oh, probably. There's a chance you don't like to lie, Martin. I have a question. Do you work from home or do you go into an office?

It's hybrid. I work from home three days a week, so I am grateful to be able to go in Wednesdays and Thursdays. So that does help, leaving the house a couple of days a week. And I joined a gym just to see if I could meet some like-minded people there. I'm into strength training and fitness, so that's great.

I'm trying that, but I feel like I'm not meeting people who are quite like-minded yet. Well, one thing I notice about men in the U.S. is that newer friendships that they make, it's often through sports of some kind. So I think that you've joined this gym and the strength training is really great for

And I don't know much about strength training. I know a lot of people who do it. But for example, my husband goes every single weekend for the last 40 years with a guy that he met. And men's friendships seem to be so different from women's in that it's sort of, it needs to be mediated through an activity. Yes. I think that's true. Anthropological. For men, it needs to be mediated through an activity. They need stick and they hit tiny ball with stick. Yes. But have you been going to that gym for a long time yet?

About a year now. Oh, okay. Yeah. And it is great. Like, I feel like I'm friendly with the guys who are there, but I haven't been able to hang out with anybody from that gym outside of there. Well, I want to be your friend. Yeah, I want to be your friend too. I mean, pick up basketball. I mean, I maybe would go to like a gay bar with someone and talk and then a gay man invites you in and then you just go on autopilot.

Okay. And you don't have to try it all because they'll do everything for you. But you're saying the straight man goes to the gay bar. And meets a gay friend. And then explains that to his wife. Like, I'm going every Wednesday night to the gay bar. I'm just saying, I think straight men, it's like sometimes you need a little free jaune. And if Martin doesn't want to only have his wife's friends, there's another. Susie, Susie, Susie, Susie. There's a level of life that we don't understand because we're women and we're straight. But like,

Dudes, they need other dudes. The dude needs the dude. And they do these dude things. I don't understand them. You don't understand them. They never come home and tell us the exciting thing that they just found out the other dude's wife left him because they don't even remember that. What they remember is like he bench pressed a little bit more. So we may not be the ones to answer this, but we stand with you, Martin. Oh, well, I appreciate that. And you're just a very cool guy. And I think you're going to find a strength guy and you lift with him every weekend. Yeah.

Don't you guys have to spot one another when you're lifting these very heavy things at the gym? Don't you kind of need somebody? Yeah, yeah, you do. Sometimes you do. Absolutely. For safety. The interesting development recently is that I did go out on a dinner friend date with a guy who my wife and I met through a coffee tasting class. Oh, nice.

I love that. This is why men need the woman. Right. The woman is like he needs some friends of his own. Like a man would never say, I'm going to do a coffee tasting class. Exactly. I'm going to join the Cat Lady Book Club. The woman brings him coffee tasting and now he meets the guy. I love it. I love that, too. I also like the man needs the woman. The man needs the woman, as always. Martin, your wife sounds really awesome. Yes. I'm very grateful for her.

Actually, she's on hold because she has a marital problem. She's up next. No, just kidding. How do I ship my husband back to Norway? He just got here. But I think you're doing everything right. There's this group in Brooklyn. They read a page of Ulysses every week. I think things like that are so cool if you're not into Bible study or things like that, just kind of like a group to read. I always...

wish I was back in school because there's certain books I'd love to read, but that I would never read outside of like a class. Right. So even if you're willing to make friends online, you're like an infinite gesture eating group or I'm thinking of things men really like. Yeah.

You listen to you in a chest. That's what you guys are into. But I sometimes go to live like new drawing classes, which are really fun because it makes everyone feel, oh, my God, what are we doing? This is weird and like gross. So things where I mean, in the gym, you're kind of showing off and you have these big muscles, but kind of improv clown classes, things where you're kind of reveling in the silliness, I think, is also a thing that's important to do as an adult. I've got a strong feeling about the coffee tasting friend. Yeah.

Yeah, I think so. It just feels odd when you go out with a guy that you've only met once, you go out and grab dinner, and it feels like you're kind of auditioning to be a friend. And it feels weird that you like, am I running the risk of getting rejected? It feels very odd. Yeah, that is kind of weird. I think you should be putting yourself out there. Don't you should be doing something with the guy, right? Instead of just sitting down across the table.

These are so practical. I'm like, have a lie about yourself. Like, just like be prepared to tell him, like have this weird story about a long lost sister in your back pocket. If things get awkward, infiltrate the gay friend group, turn them against each other. Then you become the head. Take Caitlin's advice. Stick with the coffee tasting. The Midwest, I have no doubt, is going to embrace you, Martin from Norway. Yes, as we already have from Hollywood.

All right. Thank you so much. Thank you, Martin.

That's a great guy. Great guy. That's a lucky woman. Yes, the men of St. Louis. Yeah. Also, how often are guys, I don't need friends, I'll just go play video games. Don't worry about me. I mean, he's really... Well, he's a soulful Scandinavian. Yeah, exactly. Of course. Just wandering around St. Louis, hanging out under that arch, waiting, waiting. Probably committing some dark murders by night if television tells me anything about the Nordic sensibility. Exactly. I love that.

Those were our live callers. Thank you, Anonymous Caller A and Martin from Norway. Yes. I really think they were pure souls. It's all going to work out for them. Yes. After the break, we'll be back with more questions about emotional affairs, single sons, pregnancy, and so much more. Stay with us.

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Do you tend to compare your life to other people on social media? What do you do when you get caught up wishing that your life looked like someone else's? Maybe it's their body or their clothes or their house or their in-ground pool or their skincare routine or their jewelry or their vacation or their fitness regimen. Not that I know the feeling or anything. Anyway, it's easy to envy other people's lives, but comparison is the thief of joy and of way too much of your time.

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Okay, so we got a lot of questions about relationships, love, pregnancy. Okay, I like that sequence. As you know, we're traditionalists here. So here's the first one. I'm going to read it. Hi, Susie, Caitlin, and the Free Press.

What are your thoughts on seducing slash flirting with a guy who is in a relationship? I'm not talking about anything physical or getting him to cheat, parentheses, at least in the physical sense, but more telling him I find him attractive and would date him if he was single. If you think there's a line, what would it be?

For context, this is a guy who I'm interested in. I was interested in him before he ever started dating anyone, but he's my brother's best friend, so I was never forward about liking him. Now he has been dating someone for just over a year, but there have been hints that it's not all smooth sailing. So do I lose my shot and take the L, or is he only taken if there's a ring? I know. How could you even get out of bed for this? Listen.

If that man had been interested in you during his period of free agency, or if he were interested in you now during his dating life, he would have let you know. He's not, all of mankind is not waiting for you to say, I'm actually interested. Right.

Yeah, totally. I certainly think you can flirt with some guy who's dating another girl. You're not going to make any friends on her side. And maybe he has been secretly harboring these feelings, although I doubt it. I just think that young women oftentimes have this idea, a

a romantic but wrong idea that they run everything. You know, boy, if I were to let him know I was interested, then he would just come roaring. But he's kind of gentle and he could never. She's already picked out the linens for the rehearsal. Yes. And you know what? Maybe he's not interested in you. Maybe he himself would have taken a gesture towards you if he were interested in. I mean, take your best shot. But I

I don't think there's a moral issue, really, except if you know the other girl. It's not nice. In this day and age, I don't know what even accounts for letting him know you're interested in him, you know? Full frontal. Okay, good. Okay. No, that's just silly. Silly, silly, silly, silly. I'll also say it's the brother's best friend. It's like, is he the one or is he your brother's best friend? It's like, that is like, there are laws of physics. It's like...

You crush on the guy who mows your parents lawn. You crush on the guy who just moved into town and is, you know, has floppy hair and just moved from the big city and hates it here. It's like this is like a storybook. It's like everyone has a huge crush on their brother's best friend. The brother goes, oh, she's snotty. She's the worst. Well, actually, she kind of grew up. Yeah. I've seen this movie. Yeah. We've seen we've seen Bring It On. We know how this works. I mean, but her question about is there a line?

Of letting him know or flirting with him. I mean, maybe I'm like a hard-o about this. It's like physical is the least of it. It's like she should not be texting this person. She doesn't need more friends. I mean...

I think that a woman knows how to very, very subtly, with a glance, a mild comment, something, let a man know that she's interested in him. If young women don't know that, then I will have to open up a charm school of doing that. Because you don't have to make a big declaration. You don't need a boombox. That's the good thing about being a woman. You don't need a boombox.

And then he'll pick it up from there. And if he doesn't, yeah. Yeah, exactly. Let's move on. Let's move on. There's more brothers with more best friends at the end of the day. Exactly. And just as we've discussed the problems of best friends having best friends, the brother probably has a few more best friends that you can try this out on. But this one thinks everyone else is a demon. So it's complicated. Okay, here's another one.

This is interesting. This is from a mother. Okay. This is not a question for me, but for my son. He's a handsome, well-educated therapist, a kind and giving person. Oh boy, mom. Does she have a therapist? And yet totally alone at 30.

He keeps going to other people's weddings but never has a love of his own. In fact, he has never had a serious relationship. I tried to set him up, but each time there's no connection between him and the girl, he says. I don't feel I can talk to him further on the subject of love as it's been like this for many years now. Nor can I find him any more daughters of friends who are still single. Oh, boy.

I'm so often sad for him. I assume that he is truly lonely and suffering inside. He deserves to love and be loved. What advice do you have for him that I can share? Hold on. We're talking about, let's take mom aside, a 30-year-old man who really gets around. He's seen a lot of women. Right. He's a therapist. He's a therapist. And it sounds like he's dating a lot of women. He's set up with a lot of women. He hasn't found a long-term relationship yet.

I think there's a lot of 30-year-old men are like, he's winning at life. Why do you think he needs to be married to this woman? And also, if there's anything a mother has to do, and I'm with you women, it's going to kill you when I say this. It kills me when I tell myself, your son is a man. He's grown.

A man will do the things that he needs to do. If he hasn't figured them out yet, he'll do them at a later time. But the very last person who needs to be telling him in any regard what he needs to do, unless you just want to waste your voice, is the mother. He's a man.

You had your time of being the woman in his life and it was wonderful and it was heaven and feeding the quarters into the little bouncy car outside of the Kroger that I'm going to tell you, it doesn't get better. But they grow up and they're men. Stand back, mom. So there's never a time where it's okay to intervene in your child's love life?

What if your child is, like, let's say the opposite problem of this woman, your child's dating someone seriously and you don't think it's the right match? My husband has a saying that has never failed me or anyone I've given it to, which is, we're not on the selection committee, we're on the welcoming committee. Oh, wow. Of course I run there, you know, for any priors, I check your driver's licenses. Right.

That's real. That's hard. Like I have friends who will be with people who I'm like, this is just not the right match for you. Well, you're not the parent. You can talk to your friend that way, of course. You can get rid of a friend. You can't get rid of your parent. I've seen many a relationship. It's like you say, can you say something to a friend, do you think?

Oh, no, because, well, what happens, of course, if you have a friend who breaks up with somebody and then you say, oh, I've always hated him, they're going to get back together in a week and you'll be out. Right, exactly. You know, if you really think as a parent that the child is marrying someone who is an addict or who has shown signs of true abusiveness or whatever, of course, you say something and maybe your child will take that counsel, probably not.

But these people are grown. They're adults. Right. And I will say, as someone who's dated many handsome, kind, and giving 30-year-old men,

This mom doesn't know what's happening behind closed doors. Right. She thinks he is God's gift to the earth. I'm sure he's dating other people. And it just, it's hard because you are ultimately disabling your child by meddling in their love life and making them ill-equipped emotionally to communicate as a person. If you meddle, you're just moving the wedding up a year sooner because the minute your parent tells you, I don't like your boyfriend, it's like, oh, I found the right one.

Oh, my God. Okay. So verdict on giving advice to the son. Let go and let God. This woman, she's only going to hurt herself. Even the way she's discussing him is emasculating. He's a 30-year-old man. He's got a good job. He's handsome. He dates a lot of women. And mom's not happy.

Though I don't know about being a therapist if you're a man, but that's a longer conversation. You know what kind of therapy he's practicing. That's true. And if you want to date a lot of women, therapy is a really good job to go into as a man. That's true. We have one last write-in. Oh, okay. And then we're going to go to the surprise questions. Oh, good. If that's okay. Okay, so here is a letter we got.

It says, hi, TFP team. My best friend just told me that she's 16 weeks pregnant. While I am so happy for her and I was anticipating hearing this news, I'm struggling because I went through a miscarriage a month ago. I want to be there for her during her pregnancy, but I'm having a hard time navigating my role through all of this. Any advice on how to maintain the relationship and be a good friend while still making space for me would be greatly appreciated.

Miscarriages are so hard. They're so hard. And I had a miscarriage my first pregnancy. I was so excited. And then a really close friend got pregnant. It's so hard after a miscarriage just to see anybody pushing a stroller or anybody who's obviously pregnant. It's a really hard time. And I have a feeling that the friend will be really sensitive to that.

It's a long time before you have to be like planning the shower or whatever. But there's just no two ways about it except it's painful. It's just a season of life that you hurt. Your heart really hurts. The good thing about it is women really come around together and support each other during this. And I'm sure that friend will be sensitive enough, but I'm sorry. Yeah.

I could just cry for her even though I know there's miscarriages every day. It's so hard. I can't imagine. I've never gone through that, but I would just say it's okay to skip the stroller shopping or the trip to the toy store or whatever the thing is that seems like it's a nothing for her but is actually going to be hard for you. It's really freeing to just say, "Hey, I'm a little down or depressed today. I don't want to do that." But it's also, again, stage four wisdom.

I know this is like the last thing I would have come up with at the time. Sometimes saying the truth to a really close friend is the right thing to do. And just write a note. I am so happy. And you're going to be the best mom and I'm going to be so there for you. But I'm still, you know how hurt I've been about this miscarriage. Just please forgive me if I'm not as there for you in these early months with the exciting parts.

as I might be and I'm sure I'll heal something like that because it's obviously in the air the friend obviously knows it the friend obviously feels terrible about sharing every little detail in the level of excitement that she would have before but it's just one of those times you have to walk with maximum grace I think with one another mm-hmm

And for this woman, this poor woman who's lost a baby, that friend's going to have so much grace and compassion for her. And it's thinking about it all the time, I'm sure. Yeah. Nothing to add except also don't be afraid to indulge a little bit.

Dirty gin martinis, salty snacks to accompany it. There's this show called Love Island U.S. now. I mean, there's really there's certain things that. Throw a few boxes of Junior Mints in the freezer. Yes, exactly. And stock up. But I have a feeling you and her are going to look back at this time in many years and be both at a happier place. Yeah.

Okay, my producers are telling me that there's a few more questions they want us to answer. I have not heard these in advance, but should we let them play them? Yeah. Let's get to it. Hi, this is a question for Caitlin. Caitlin, how do I get Susie to hang out with me? I've tried everything that I can think of. I proposed a free press edition.

Of The Bachelorette, in which we all compete for her love. I like that. Nellie thought it was great. Susie, I'm not sure. I offered to take her out for dinner, paid for by a billionaire. Not me. I'm not the billionaire. I also tried to woo her with...

The promise of the story of the time that little Vicky's mom hit on me, 100% real. He lived down the street from me. And I think that's it. Yeah. What else do I need to try? I'm not sure. Maybe, you know, help me out.

My name is Matthew, by the way. Thanks. Susie, I like the fact that you have had so many people try to get your attention that you can't even remember the one who was like hit on by his neighbor's mom. Yeah. Wait, this is such a like, he's a great voice. I thought that for the minute, I got really excited that he only wanted to talk to me at the beginning of his voice.

Wow. What could he do to hang out with me? What do you think? I don't know. I hang out with you all the time. I know. He's like, be Caitlin Flanagan, have an awesome hot tub and just swirl around and, you know, a great husband flipping burgers and French onion dip. Right. I'm not so hard to get in contact with. Wow. That's so flattering. Yeah. I just think

That he needs to make a direct approach and email you. It should be. Yeah, he should email me because I'm. This shouldn't be in the form of a question, putative advice episode.

Cut me out of this. Yeah, yeah. Don't do this to Caitlin. This feels like the dinner with the billionaire. I mean, it don't take much. I probably wasn't getting those cues. I lost a little bit of excitement when the billionaire was going to be paying for it, but he was not the billionaire. So like, did he have to go and like write a purchase order for the dinner? Like, how's that happening? Yeah. Like, can he expense the dinner with you? And if so, why?

But also it's like if it's just dinner, it doesn't matter if you're a billionaire or a hundredaire. You could just probably afford it. Well, it depends where. Maybe it's like on Mickey Mouse or something. Well, then that's different. That would definitely get my attention. I don't know what to say. You are very, very elusive. Elusive because you have far more interest than you have time to reciprocate.

That's true. Did you give him the OnlyFans? Yeah, that's, yeah. We can, you can get my attention for $8.99 a month. And then we could do texting. And there's like, there's a whole package associated with it. What do we think? Well, there is an answer. Go to the OnlyFans. Exactly. Wow. Thank you. I'm really flattered. And I appreciate the boldness. And I'll go, I'll have a drink with you in Brooklyn. Yes. Yeah. Accepted. Virtual. Yeah.

Okay, let's hear the next one. That was so funny. Here's my question. I'm raising some meat chickens on my farm here in northern Michigan just for the family. And last year, I took them the full eight weeks, which is what the producer tells you to do. But they got a little big. And this year, I'm thinking of, you know, trying to harvest them a little earlier, maybe at seven weeks. But I don't really have a good way to harvest them.

weigh a chicken. Just wondering, you know, if you have any advice in this area, if you know anybody who's tried the seven-week over the eight-week period. And any advice you have would be very welcome. Thank you so much. Bye-bye. It's fine to slaughter a chicken between the seven and eight-week period, and you don't need to weigh the bird. So I would say just, I don't know what I'm talking about. I only have experience five to six weeks. I can't comment on seven to eight.

But I think it's really all going on in Michigan. Well, Michigan's the new Texas. It is. I guess so. It's incredible. I went to college in Michigan and it's really, it's sort of like, you know, Vermont plus California divided by two. Oh, okay. It's a really special place. But I know how he can weigh it. How? He holds it and gets on the scale and then gives the chicken to someone else and weighs himself and subtracts it. But is it easy to get a chicken to weigh?

let you hold him? Well, first you have to get one of those cartoon nets and get the chicken. You have to weigh that too. I was once on a date with someone. They brought out, it wasn't chicken, it was salmon. And it was supposed to be a 12 ounce portion. He said, this is not 12 ounces. He went back into the kitchen and weighed the plate and then

with the salmon on it and then weighed a separate plate to see how much the plate weighed and then subtracted it. As we would say in biology class. Yeah. And what it showed was that he no longer had a girlfriend. Well, I would think, like, was he doing it as a gag? No. He really was like, this isn't 12 ounces. And that's what I ordered. That's what I'm paying for. But a lot of rude jokes could be made upon this and we will not.

But I think this was an important question that we will have to ponder in our hearts, as Mary did the Annunciation, because we just don't know that much about husbandry of the chicken. I'm so divorced from where my food comes from and how it gets made. And I'm really appreciative to the people who do do it. Because if I was going to do chickens, I would not be doing meat chickens. You know, I'd be doing egg chickens. And that's really that's really like stuff.

Well, it does seem to be one of those things like raw milk where you get to the two ends of the political spectrum. And they meet at raw milk. Yes. So this could be like either a hearty, like what kind of Michigander has to call into a couple of coastal elites about how to slaughter his chickens' eyes? Yeah.

Yeah, there's something, there's a third thing going on here. And honestly, just go to Kroger, get the skin on thighs, because you can't overcook them. Right. And then do the Alice in Roman chicken thigh, one pot, vinegary olive recipe. Or the Alice in Roman one pot date and caramelized lemon. That's unbelievable. Yeah. So we don't know what week to do it, but we know what you should do. We know once they're dead. Yeah, once they're dead, then call us. Exactly. Exactly.

So, Caitlin, we covered a lot of ground today. We did. We healed a lot of hearts. We got chickens. We got cell phones. We got cheating. We got manhood. Manhood. Motherhood. Sisterhood. Romance. I had a blast. As did I.

I usually don't come over here to Hollywood Boulevard in late July, but here I am. You really, you did a misfit. Strumpet. For these listeners, and they would all do well to take your advice as anyone would. And your sound counsel about lying to people about thinking you went to college with them. Yes. If all else fails, here's the thing. Take Caitlin's advice about praying and being at peace and be steady, and then when that doesn't work, come to Old Seuss and pray

lie, cheat, scam, fraud your way into friendships in the Midwest, into your brother's best friend who you want to marry, whatever it is. I had a freshman roommate in college and we always had a lot of boys in the room. And I later heard that

This saying was, you go there to look at Caitlin, but to listen to Dorothy. But now, enough years have passed that I'm the listen to Dorothy. Oh, that is amazing. That's my friend. She has an eighth grade yearbook that we always read. It said like, Mary, this was the eighth graders wrote this to each other. You're a bitch, but a bitch who's going to make it. Too bad I'll always be one step ahead of you. I'll see you at the top. Woo!

Eighth grade. Eighth grade yearbook. And they each have what the other desires. One has an amazing career. One has a family, but not the other. It's just, it's too perfect. Wow. Look at Caitlin and listen to Dorothy. I love that. Caitlin Flanagan, thank you so much for joining me on Honestly. Susie Weiss, sometimes I have to bring it out of the Dinas and share it with the world. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you.

I hope you enjoyed today's episode with myself and the great Caitlin Flanagan. This was one of our first advice shows, but it won't be our last. If you would like us to be your sounding board on matters of love, family, health, religion, husbandry, husbands, give us a call at 805-387-2530 and leave us a voicemail and let us know how we can get in touch with you. Thanks for listening and talk to you soon.