What is jawmaxxing?
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Okay, after this week's episode, our question, what is jaw magazine and how did you go instream? After sats, we called internet culture reporter ryan brodick. This episode is brought to you in part by movie accurate streaming service dedicated to elevating great cinema from around the globe, from iconic actors to emerging authors, is always something new to discover with movie.

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Hello, ron.

Oh, you record the whole thing.

Is that the whole thing? Maybe you're gna say something charming and surprising. Yes.

i've been watching the wire for the first time, similar ilo sophy in that show. You got to catch them on the wire.

You should check out after done, there's this mob drop on, and he has really get called discipline OS. So I watched .

that for the first time. And then I like, I want to stay in this. So then I start .

watching the wire.

What are you doing? I'm sorry, i'm working class, so we didn't have HBO growing up. Wow, I I didn't realize, you know, we were from different words like that.

What did you guys watch?

I know my parents are very bad taste.

I think I think my parents don't have a paged able taste, but I also something, watch stuff without them.

And part three, any side, this will is pretty good. And okay, I think he really was like, sofia couple is pretty good. This movie as how he is a nice is i've only seen.

i've seen my father part one. I think i've seen most godfather part two. I don't. Three is the bad one, right?

I've never seen the whole thing. I watched IT between a break for him. He didn't look good.

I've met your dad. Your dad has been .

on crypto island, right?

He he's really such a charming guy.

He's having a great time right now. Now his boys back in the White house.

oh, did was he a travel?

He's always been a republican and I think he's like, you know, Normal allies about IT.

But do you guys argue or do you just like a ree to disagree?

No, I tried to find places to argue with them, but it's like tired. And sometimes, like, I do this for a job, I don't need to do this one with you. Like, I find IT IT quite useful now that, like, you know, home, he takes me out to like a shady dive bar at full of like the rogan guys because I understand their psychology perfectly.

Now, oh really, oh yeah. I mean, i've had many conversations with these guys who are like deciding the future of our country now. And like, I understand how they think of what they want. And it's not as nearly as deep, I think, as people make IT out to be.

What do you feel? You understand that like all the sort of new reporters who are hang out of diners.

don't there is a general trump in every single town in america, multiple probably guys who just believe like they should be allow to do. They're sick of dealing with like zoning regulations or like the light department or whatever IT is. And so purg'd trump is very inspiring for them to like be the trump of their town.

And it's not political. It's just like a power. It's like a you're in your middle ages and you don't want to listen to anybody.

You know, I had a moment this week. I had a moment. I can you tell the .

moment that I had?

You can tell i've got more, I think, under my forever ards and I was like trying to find a guide to deal the old and I called the mole guy and he's like, well, is this new york state past regulation in twenty six ced currently that says you can't have a mold guy from your house. You gotta hire a different guy to come your house and prepare like a plan for the mold guy to follow. And like, the idea is they don't want mode.

Guy is going on ripping everybody off. So there's the guy who makes them more test and the body checks for the old, but the guy does the mod test. He is like, yes, five hundred box. That's like what .

that's what we just got to get get rid of department education. You know we just got a that's why elon must cost to make our government more efficient. I know.

But I do think there's something very radically, unfortunately, about dealing with any single government regulation in amErica because that all completely, I may allowed to say this because i've lived in a country, you know, the U. K. Is not exactly efficient, but the government services are at least put together a bit more. Thought i've seen what could be yeah so i'm comfortable being like amErica just like maybe shouldn't have a government .

actually because that we're really bad at IT. Okay, stop thirty. I do want to say I think the way have been feeling this week has the problem is like the right is always just like the government, which we constantly sabotage, sucks until we have no choice but to destroy IT. And the left is like the government should take care of everything, but also we have no curiosity about whether they're doing a good job. How to make them do a Better job is just like we have eric Adams from here in my and we're running around being like we should be .

inserted everything .

because what can we now we've solves the political for the rest.

My name is ryan brock. I am the author of the garbage and news letter and the host of the new panic world podcast.

Ryans been covering the internet about the same meantime I have, which is about seventy years, if you like, stories about ringe internet phenomena and the way an idea can hop from the outside of the culture towards its mainstream. Ryan is a person whose work often gives me out these days Better.

Week ago, ryan texted me and suggested that search engine I to try to make sense of job X I D I D only ever noticed priority, mainly online subcultures of teenage boys. And so here we were. Okay, so what is job maxing? right?

Job magazine is a facial exercise you can do. I mean, you're like me, you've got a jd advanced in. You could be Better, right?

You could make IT vans. We both have soft round.

We have soft millennial features. We look good in an american, a parallel d but not so much, you know, as a mega chat. yeah. So if you want your face to look more like a mega chat, to give a chat, if if you will, you can theoretically do this facial exercise to give yourself a sharper, more design chin.

And we can see you about megger chats and giggles. So I have step suns sure you're .

the dad is stepped up.

It's really it's a very strange way to learnt about internet culture. I'm sure like my exposure to mega chat and mega chat I think came through them like I know that IT there's these like black White photos of just like a super over masculine ize guy with like a super high cheek bones in a super deep chain.

right? And the sort of giga chat idea is like fortune. Many years ago, fortune users came up with like the idea of like the perfect man, the chat.

and where they are joking? Or were they not joking? Did they know? Does anyone know?

I mean, I sort of take everything that happens in for china is kind of like arch performance are that starts that way very often. So in the earlier means, IT was like popular women were stacks and popular men were chats and chats go to Stacy and IT was sort of part of this idea of like early pick up artist communities trying to like codify sexual dynamics that and so the chat was like the archetypal man.

And because these men who were talking about this are like insane nerds, they were using animal power scaling. And and what is the animal power scaling? So like um you know like france is like indian. If you become like a very high level discord, you might have giga attached to the front of your name.

So like so so it's like these nerds are trying to define anyone is a nerd. I don't mean that majority vely, I just mean descriptively. But these nurses are trying to define like kind of alpha jack mash culinary, but as they're trying to do at their animals, like a nervous creeps through until first, they're like got a chat and they're just like and like dig, they got a gig. D yes, and they're taking all the attributes they used to label a chat in their lag exponential ally, increasing them to a place where they are ridiculous.

Yeah and you know when you ask, like is this a bit or not? I think it's a not very useful way of thinking about this because context collapse is so just a part of the way the internetworking that, like, even if you come up with something kind of funny, and even in the original thread, everyone in their kind of knows is a joke.

So at this idea of a chat, this jokey meme about a hyper masculine jack who women love, IT kicks round on the internet for about a decade, but sometimes CD drawn as a guy with a mohawk. Sometimes chad is represented by this one picture of this one high school foobar player in twenty seventeen. A new meme circulates of a beard, high cheekbone, absurdly roight out muscle ban. These are black and White photos that border on the uncanny, almost A I generated. And people start referred to this images to gag a chat, like the chat, to rule all chats.

This is the a attack music, of course, there's the music, and there are tutorials, these videos of scri Young teenage ways, teaching each other to imitate the biggest hadda bizarre facial expression, eyebrows raised, cheeks sucked in, in a distinctive smart. It's take a gofer version of how you might flexi your by steps and pretend be superman if you've been around teenage boys in the past couple years.

The bigger chat face, like the sigma face, this is something you see them pulling at each other and then cracking up. We had jim Carry. They have less. But again, as ryan says, the bigger chair is what a joke and a not joke at the same time.

So quick chat was definitely supposed to be kind of a parity, but doesn't no matter.

But what you mean is that insuring kinds subcultures where people are intentionally provoking each other, but also everyone has attempted to to take their own ideas seriously. Again, this idea like, is this a Better not is kind of a useless question. It's like .

because there's profound power, I think, in not defining if it's a bit not. I mean, trump is very good at this. We're like he really understands that like if you never tell people if you're lying or joking or not, the you can just wait for them to react and then decide if you are lying or joking later. And I think full chain logic kind of Operates the same way, which like you make a bit, if it's popular of the sun, is not a bit and anywhere is IT.

So these jokey, not jokey, images of the bigger child, they have now been fooling around for almost eight years. Job axing actually predates the goat had, but IT bangs around the same parts of the year. Internet in for similar reasons.

Men, mostly Young men online, are joking about wanting to be more masculine. At the same time, some Young man online are really wishing they were more. The police were one faction of these men, mostly men, started to behave in a bizarre under the spell of trying to become more chat like, this is where jaw Maxine comes in.

So job magazine is the act of trying to make your jaw look more masculine. The term job magazine comes from another term, looks magazine. They're kind of related. The idea of like blank magazine is fortune read IT speak for like you want to do IT a lot, I say.

So we so where does the story of 叫 maxing start job？

Maxing starts in the one thousand nine hundred and sixty.

Actually it's a perfect pog, gus, because it's only vaccine .

yeah and just nothing but lower here.

After the break of british orthodontic in john meal.

Welcome back to the show. So before the break, we were about to get into the law of jaw maxing. Ryan says that story actually starts many decades earlier.

In the nineteen six, a british orthodontist name, doctor john mu, comes up with an idea that he's calling ortho tropics. So the simplify IT ortho tropics is that your teeth and your jaw and all that stuff is not fucked up from genetics. It's fucked up from your environment 啊。 So john, you he sets up a dentistry practice in in the seventies, in the eleven suburbs, and he started testing his idea of worth of tropics on his own children.

The details of you experimenting on his own children. Some of them are in a twenty, twenty near times magazine profile of them. According to doctor jan mu, his three kids were treated almost like an in home medical trial.

He fed his daughter only soft foods until the eja forum. He fed his two boy's hard foods and tried to ensure they would breathe through their noses so they could keep their males shut as often as possible. He even claimed that he made a head strap with a Spike in IT for one of his sons to try to force him into a crack posture. Though his undisputed this, this profile may be john use introduction to a mainstream audience, but he'd been at IT for quite a while. The first time muse ideas were shared in public life was actually a nineteen eighty one article in the british dental journal.

IT is roundly condemned and laugh away by the dentistry establishment.

And this is basically like the same way there's people who would tell you like you don't need vaccines, you just need like rush air, whatever. Like this guy is anti establishment. But for brace, like this guy is like there's a Better, more natural, more holistic way to have straight teeth.

yes. So this is from the ortho tropics dot com website, all about this idea. So soft food weakened our job muscles. The indoor living encouraged allergies. While early, we created abNormal tung habits. And although tropic believe that these distort the jaws and teeth or the dotie, on the other hand, believe that badly shape js are inherit and concentrate on straight ing the teeth by mechanical means, using wires and brackets, they often extract some teeth to make room for others. And new surgery, reposition jazz, although tropez believe that male sion is a biological problem, which should be treated naturally, not by mechanics and surgery.

I should say we reach out to the muse clinic for comment. We didn't hear back. As always, when I encounter an idea that strange to me, I find myself wondering why IT speaks to so many other people.

The muse family, alternative theories of dentistry. I want to acknowledge a lot of IT sounds very strange, parts of its own cruel. I'm certainly not here to suggest you to ask your dentist for advice about which hard foods to feature taller we are to source a head strap with a Spike in IT.

But some fringe ideas take hold because mainstream science refuses to enter tRicky questions that ordinary people really wonder about. And here's a genuinely good question, the orthur pious loved ask. Because, like this, in the past, mankind had straighter teeth and merchant chins.

Today we have more corporate teeth and softer chance. Why is that happening? Could we stop IT from happening? A mainstream dentist will offer your braces or in violin and say, your job shape is meligeni tic.

There's not much to be done here. And also, did you remember the flaws and worth? The tropic has a much more exciting story to tell.

They believe this change to our jaws, which is really observable. They think it's being caused by some change in our environment as recent as the industrial revolution. Okay, but here's where the use get beyond any good evidence and deeply into their own sales pitch.

The new family says we can change the shape of our draws without surgery or braces. If our kids just follow the right diet and maintain the right time pressure that in effect we can resist the way society he to deform us by following the use teacher and to ran. There's something familiar here, something he sees in a lot of eotertiary.

The thing that I find kind of links, a lot of these, is that IT also comes back to the solutions of the angles of modern life, are found totally within yourself. And i'm going to sell you how to find IT inside of you. And obviously, i'm not say like transient elemental is bad or whatever, it's produce a lot of graded David linch films or like yoga is bad or whatever.

I like yoga myself, but like there is definitely a wave of grifters who sell people this idea that everything that is structurally against you in modern life can be solved by sort of stripping yourself down and find within you. And I I think that's why a lot of conspiracy theories start there as well. And I think all the tropics is is equally opposit cc, because it's saying you can literally changed the inside of your mouth if you work hard enough, right?

I think americans are funny because we're both like were a paranoid conspiracy living country. But we're also a country that is very founded on in the idea of self improvement. And so those things kind of twin in a funny way where there's always a new person with a new diagnose that was from a society. But the promise is always the same. They're gonna sell you something that helps you change yourself and also like talking like, I can see your face and there is a little bit funny about like these two like soft to chin round mouse men just laughing at the idea .

that this could ever be proved yeah like, you know, women like me so like, I need, I can be soft somewhere.

Just know that I know that somewhere there's more of like, triangle chin, giga, jaded or like these losers, like the the scales could be drawn with their eyes of only they would follow the light in the way like.

I know how they see that yeah sorry boys, I can make eye contact, which means I can watch all the enemy I want and still talk to go.

so. So he starts in britain. Yes, john uses as this idea. Yes, his ideas you're going to do like mouth setups .

to have strate.

And what is IT like what does he actually mean? Like what is he doing with this theory? Like how's he testing in on people? Is he making money?

He is testing on people. In one thousand nine hundred eighty six, he leaves the traditional world of dentistry. He self publishes a book about his theories, and he's just sort of doing his thing. Uh, he doesn't really sort of matter for our story until we jump back in in the two thousands, which is when little mike, his son, joins his father's practice in the london suburbs, becomes in the tropic. And in twenty twelve, mike meu starts uploading videos to youtube.

Hello and welcome. Thank you very much for invite to meet your conference. It's been an accent conference so far.

Mike mu johns pride enjoy is on stage at a conference at harvard. From the waste up, mike looks like an academic just dressed with a swathed ss that boris unappropriate underneath his blazer, a pink button up and done one button too many. As your eyes drift out, passes neck, you see what will so compelled the internet. Mike new nearly has the face of an academic, except, I must admit, for his jaw, a joy he'd kill for. It's like he's managed to construct in real life the bottom third of the kika chat face and upside down, trying, all adorned here with the soul patch that as a reporter who tries to tell him straight, I have to admit this totally working.

I am Better looking than I was seven years ago. That is hard work and effort, I think is probably more difficult than staying on a periodic c time. But it's possible if you look at someone like Stephen hawkins, this face went wrong at a late. You should be able to make your face grow right at a later.

Stephen hawking, delate theoretical physicist with L. S. In my muse speech, hawkings serves as an example of someone famous for having a weak job.

The gospel according to mike, more or less, the same ideas is dad offered in that original one thousand nine hundred eighty one article, diet and tune posture. Presumably, the academics at this conference don't think much of these ideas now either, but they're not the audience that matters anymore. Their presence in this room is set decoration for the real audience. Eventually, the audience, even for just this one talk, will grow to the hundreds of thousands. Because this is the twenty tens, which means mix words are being recorded and uploaded to youtube.

Now, my point took presenting to you here is to say, if you are scientists, if you believe in the truth, you need to support me in .

this debate.

That's how science moves forwards. We are treating one third of the population of all western civilizations with a method where we admit we don't know what causes that, and we are avoiding debate.

So it's like fringe idea plugged into internet.

And I I think one thing that maybe has been memory hold or like Normal people, just like done experience, is that around two thousand and eleven, two thousand and twelve, as these large social platform started to flicker on at a scale that started to matter culturally, a lot of insane people who had been using them quietly for many years suddenly became very famous by accident, like a flat, thus would be one.

You know, a lot of these kind of these people were using the internet very quietly. And then in twenty twelve, algorithm started to mindlessly serve content people. And that's probably the easiest way to view what happens here because in june twenty fourteen, one of mix videos is shared to slit hate dot com.

SHE says interesting .

ly enough is shared by a user named the author dentist. A mike denies that he did IT okay, but suddenly, all of a sudden, there is a new auto tropic jaw exercise called milling that is very popular in the world of insulin.

To me is to place your tongue on the roof, your mouth, close your lips and lightly pressure teeth together. If you do this in the mirror, you'll notice that gives you draw A A bit of a jet. But the argument that took hold online was that this was an size and that mewing, over time, would give you permanently a juddy or job.

Ryan says this notion was taking off in the world of insudation, the world of intel. dm. Incaution of familiar actually reported the story about the surprising origins of intellectual online years ago.

On reply out, the park says to help make open the links, destroy in the shower outs. But all you need to know today, if you're unfamiliar in sell, refers to involuntarily celebrate. For decades, people who couldn't find romantic partners have found community with each other online. And those communities over time, I ve just got ten more and more rain.

So I think to really understand this though, you kind of have to understand where the insel ideas would have exist on the timing. Because in the early two thousands, you have picked up his culture to the point where, like that guy, mystery has a veh one reality show. Yeah, i'm familiar with this moment.

And so all these men are are paying for these classes and are trying to become pick up artist to help their confidence with meeting women in public. Those classes work, and a lot of the early boards for organizing those resources start to sour and then they create splinter er community is one of which was poor hate. Another one was slight hate.

H and these were the guys who would become the first in cells. And the very earliest conversations were guys who felt ripped off by the men that we're trying to help them get layed. And that's where you you start to see the idea of red pillow theory, which is like this more aggressive reactionary movement against the self help kind of vibes of early pick up artistry. And then that we get the black pills, stuff which is like full on spray shooters and IT. All sort of starts with this idea that the men that we paid to help us rip us off.

So just a recap. In the early two thousands, there were the pick of artists who wanted audiences of Young men to pay them to ln how to talk to women. But some of that audience turned against the pickup at us and became red pilled.

The red pillars were committed who believe that women had too much power that only through self optimization and manipulation could they convince women have sex with them. The black pillars who came after didn't believe that was possible. They thought they're lost a genetic laundry at birth, and that the only reasonable response was nya ism.

That's a dark story. One has been told when that many of us have at least an ambient awareness of you still encounter these cultures online. But ryan pointed out something additional, which is that fringe cultures are always welcoming in new converts, and the sometimes these new converts bring new french ideas and then get added .

to the existing bonfire. I think every subculture has a certain preelection to super science and craziness. One of the best examples is the fascist st. A cultist m. That starts to infect, like the black medal cine in europe in the eighties. This sort of idea that like, because you've remove yourself from the mainstream, you are somewhat distrustful of everything mainstream like these things happen and it's not like in cells were like wholesome little Angels in twenty twelve. But I think they were becoming visible enough that a lot of strange people were like, I think I can make some money here.

I mean, it's also kind of like another way to think about IT would be in a disorganize way. It's how algorithms work. It's like algorithms try to identify, if you like this, what else will you like? IT tries to identify who else is is like you.

And then IT puts you guys whose attention were drawn to the same things in a category that can be advertised to and then like advertisers shop with their products. And in this case, one of the advertisers who shows up with the product, something he's buying ads on youtube. But it's this strange orthur .

pic practice and that's exactly okay.

So silly exercises created. How does this go to mainstream?

So IT starts to break containment around twenty eighteen. And that's why you're seeing A A youtube channel called astra guy making videos about meaning.

So i'm here to tell you that the faces born with is not the face you have to put up with. Everything is you can do to change your face. And I want to cost your opinion.

Her sky is a Young man who he's chat like, although maybe a kind of email, pointed jaw with soop y hair above astro sky has nearly three hundred thousand views on this video, which is entitled why knowing is important to all two escalation points or IT took for was a consciously not giving up on this tony poster idea that I am suggesting from docker. You and john you, this this area of study is new. So it's time.

There's not a lot of information on IT, but you, for people tend to have good time. Pastor, no is proof. IT.

There's not really much you can deny on that. I know that these ideas transmitted via podcast don't sound perceive, but this spill doesn't work in audio. It's visual on youtube and audience of Young men, boys who didn't like the look of their own faces.

We're looking at the conventional, attractive faces of people like astra sky for guidance. IT wasn't just astra sky promising that exercise could change not just your unlovely body, but your unlovely face draw. Maxine was out spreading around the internet, these ideas from the new family pouring out of pointy jar after pointing jar.

Do you know what the golden one?

No.

who is the golden one? The golden one is not really beginning more, but he was very important in this sort of moment.

I am looking is like .

a european White nationalist that makes videos like, do White men need to get tougher? Brittan's true friends, today I want to talk about IT, about mewing. And before I begin to elaborate, time is gna say that I will link doctor mike muse china below. And I said, you watch true all of these videos. I am about halfway true .

of this guy. Looks like a guy on the cover, like a romance. He's got a long center here. This guy was both why people are the best, men are the best. Ah you should meet .

you exactly. And I also wanted to say that I fully support doctor mike me in his bat against his advisors.

The adversary, the gold money is referring to our Normal .

orthodontists disappointed ts, they do not want people to able to change perhaps by themselves, because then they can be out of a job, because then they won't have to fix people's ff. And in in fact, if you look at this video is not particularly popular. It's around sixty thousand views. But in the sidebar are a bunch of videos by mike meal about ortho tropics and mowing the .

whole time that these chat influence answer have been adopting mewing as one of their concerns, they've been sending some of their audiences back to my meal. And so over the years, mike has become an influencer in his own right. His videos over time reflect that they now have proper youtube that knows he has music. He became reach audiences in the millions.

This is viewing .

its .

postal technique that involves place of tongue on the roof, the mouth to gain health and facial improvements. The am is to cheap line and even straighten your nose naturally. All the invasive surgeries or expensive authored tics.

if one way to view the internet is as an infinite number of cults with an infinite number of leaders, mike me, the third generation of newman, to present tize orthur pics, he has finally found his fuck.

This theory is called auto tropics, also over straight troops, meaning growth, which was inspired by my father, who was a practitioner using expanded devices in the early twenty years century. When he died, my father, fester john me, the inventor of all the, discovered his records, finding that IT was indeed possible to grow the bone in people's faces without surgery.

And now building upon decades of knowledge, and as such, that my father started and culminated in my family's dedication, a holistic facial development. We have me, dr. Might me, the current expert, all of all the tropics, and the inventor of mewing .

by twenty thousand thousand, jaw maxing online, he becomes such a thing that gun brands emerge, the promise to hold up your jaws. That is more child like rock jock gum, ja liner. There is even a device for sale called jasa size.

You want a.

oh my god, yeah, yeah.

yeah. okay.

So what is happening is like they're playing like wall music, and these guys are chewing on little rober balls that lift lake the ball gags that sexual fancies.

Would you? Yes.

yes. But like the people are mostly made of male and female is a very, very strange mashup of cultural and visors. And as you put IT in your mouth, you put in your mouth too repeatedly.

too repeatedly.

Oh my god.

And so by twenty nineteen, according to vice, mewing is like big enough as a trend on youtube that youtube is aware of IT. Um this is also when you start getting like a bunch of seo spam stuff and also like january news outlets defining what viewing is by twenty twenty, the york times is profiling the use. Obviously, they gave them a nice big portrait. But the biggest moment in all of this, the sort of I think you've been the little kind of fuzz on how this all works yeah because we're not at the exact point where it's all gna come together.

So where is all come together?

The 叫 roan experience。

Yes, good see, guys. Hey, joe, great to see you.

Really good to see you.

Yeah welcome.

Welcome back to the the land of the healthy .

september twenty twenty one red width and either hanging go on a podcast called the joe rogan experience just as we are told .

that you know the um epidemic of children's teeth not meeting correctly on their jaws and needing to be moved around by orthodontist is the result of bad genes. That's nonsense. That doesn't make that doesn't make a wild of sense, right? IT can't be bad genes, right? It's too rapidly progressing something.

I'll look at skills of people from preindustrial and you don't have male conclusion. You don't have people with with jaws and teeth that look like our modern jaws .

has something to do with your food, right?

right? So I believe mike mu, who actually had on my exactly, I think, is crack the case.

But this moment on the georgian experience before and having married medical, they are there to tell rogan and his audience about mewing. But you can hear rogan are kind of familiar with that. They're telling him the same story ryan is telling me and I am telling you they just feel differently about its principal characters.

Mike mew has done an excEllent job not only figuring out what's causing this and how to treat IT, but he's also done the work. Anthropology gc ally. He's gone through the anthropological record and made the case.

And IT is rock solid. IT is evolutionarily totally coherent. And he has looked at comparison with other animals also. His argument is evolutionarily coherent. So with the evolutionary tool kit, you can look and you can say, like, I don't care how many worth of donors are saying that mike me is crazy. He's saying something coherent and they aren't .

exactly science is not done by consensus. It's not a democracy. It's not a majority of this.

True science isn't a democracy or a majority rule in science, your ideas need to be provable, not popular. The new family has not proven their ideas. Mike mu this month was struck off england's dentist register for my practice.

Does someone like me that suggests ideas are wrong? Something like to rogan? All that really tells us is that the establishment finds him and dangerous.

The punch line of the story is that mike new is in danger of being gripping out of earth adventure because his heterodox view of male sion is at odds with the central narrative around which all of orthodontia is based.

Does he have a clear evidence that his methods work? I've only seen IT discussed online and pretty ignorant about the method IT has to do with something like pressing your tongue against your pilot and eating like beef.

There two things.

Okay here, Young jammy on the ball is always goes, keep your mouth closed in your teeth, gently touching and move your tongue to the roof of your mouth and lightly press g.

And then just two months later, rogan has a hunt, her named to bo brian, on the show. Now, rogan selling the story of them use mewing. Just one more interesting fact. Rogan has .

picked up making a show, I believe that is in john meu. There's there's a guy who is a theory about this. We created this technique mewing.

And IT literally changes the structure of your jaw. And it's like a stress technique. You're doing things like stress your jaw, like I think you put your tongue in your pilot and you struck .

but and in that episode he reveals that he's been just, oh, no, that's .

right.

That's right, baby. I have a device that I use. I forget what it's call, but it's basically like a half of a rubber ball that I put in my mouth and I bite down on and I do raps with.

look with my ja reps. Yeah, I do do this. You in the drive OK.

I think like in my office, IT sits my office, I put IT in there. Sometimes i'm strong things. I i'm crazy. Car problems.

you get problems.

that's my problem, is that I try all kinds of things.

You you Better yourself and that's .

a knowing for. I tried to Better my face. I try literally like my draw s got ten stronger because as i've been doing a few years.

Joe rogan is a job maxa or I mean, maybe joe rogan is a job xr, I honestly can ever tell.

Is that a bit or is not the question we started with today? The question ryan pointed out, doesn't this matter? Mike new is clearly not joking about moving the joe rogan look for various reasons he will be interpreted among my tribe in the least terrible way possible ever s but here I honestly can't tell when he says he's chewing on a rubber ball all the time if he's aren't joking a little bit like I believe he owns the ball.

But I also hear a person who does not dy things because that's what he does and who knows he a little bit ridiculous, who is in on the self optimizing joke of himself. Some boys are taking viewing seriously, but I wonder if it's not reached as big as stage as IT has because of all the people who just find that funny. When I asked my step kids about IT, they thought I was print surge engine was covering this at such a late date.

They knew he did actually work, and they immediately started making giggle chat faces. And gigi to them. This was a bit very room, I was told, quote, only a discord board would take any of this seriously. And yet I did spend some time on the orth tropics subject, where more gradualist teenagers do end up reading their posts, where they lament the state of their jaws.

Mainly reminded me of held, I felt when I was sixteen, looking in the mirror at my overbite and persistent unbroke thinking, wondering, is there anything I could do to this face that would make a girl want to look at IT? Of course, at the time, the mirror was not providing answers. Today the internet can, on the sub edit, a seventeen year old makes a post titled, guys, what do I do? He shares his extra scans, telling the board his orthodontist wants to remove his wish to the Normal way.

But he is wondering if there is way to handle those teeth with mewing. Instead, a sixteen year old post a photo of his face in slow at very upset about his around chin. Somebody offers zuo scientifically quote, if the tone keeps dropping during sleep, mouse tape maybe needed to stop oronsay al breathing or mandibular jao p in N R M N R M.

The question these boys are actually asking is some version of, am I too unattractive to be lopped? Of course they're not. But what is over here in leu of encouragement are all these sorts of questionable scientific acronym.

The conversation is very nuts. Quote, look, what's your I M W. Palot with? There are DIY ways to measure your intermodal with at home, outside of straight, getting blessed with CT.

C, B, C, T. Radiation at the center jaw surgery of jobling this short resist petal expansion, if mw palet with, is narrow. These answers, one suspects, are not really helping anybody.

I was trying to think if this had ever happened before. Isn't exercise you still like gut, cheat myself and not become like a crank? I am always okay.

This thing that like is confusing to me and track now, is there a coral ary to like them? My space sage, which is when I was fifteen, and I was trying to think about IT, and obviously that they were kind of like memetic social diseases of the my space age, like eating disorder or life cutting yourself. There were these like Frank's harmful ideas that we're bouncing ing around internet of cultures at the time.

I think the difference was that we still had a monoculture to kind of gut check against. And so the thing that like really fixed me out about, you know, a fifteen year old boy now is that there is no center. There's nothing to like.

okay. So that's Normal and i'm not Normal, right? There's no concept. So you're you're you're sort of like free to pick and shoes whatever you to online that you like, which I have to imagine it's pra exhilarating but got to be confusing. And I think it's going to be really harmful in a certain way for when they are forced to interact with like special members of the opposite sex, which is brought enough for Young men, I don't wish to be them really hard. No, I really .

feel over them, even like men's magazines, which were never great, like maxim was pretty terrible. Like it's basic, like it's really very confusing. The Young man and anyone who's ever culturally cared to show up enough to help with that, at best, they're going to tell you like question about the order and and IT worse, they're trying to like push in a really bad direction and just seems like there's no way to talk about itself without sounding like an contained person. Yes, but i'd look at and like it's really hard and IT just makes me a little bit like and if you feel for them, you know, we should do start a man's pocket.

We should get every american boy and Young man between the ages of thirteen and twenty three, yeah, set them all down. Yeah, and make them much held in. Cur.

go to White castle. You think that would be the best time of non toxic? Actually.

I think that actually has the full canon of like, kinds of men that exist in a civilized society like you want be a stoner, do you want to be like a cool guy? Do you want to be a cop like all the kinds of many exit? And you can pick one.

I think it's not I don't remember being particularly toxic. I bet it's horrible. I bet it's like unwatchful by the day standards we had that that we had contemporaries of pop culture being like these are the men you can be yeah and we don't really have that now.

Ryan Brown, the kind of man you could be, if you like, the way he tells stories about the internet. He does this every week on his new podcast, panic world, and on his very excEllent newsletter, it's called garbage day. We will have a links to both in the showed des goes describe idea, right? Thank you for this.

Thank you. This is really fun. My job sizes arriving in a couple weeks, so it'll let you know how IT works.

That's our show this week. We actually have another paid subscribe announcement, what our board meeting is coming out. That is a zoom meeting for paid in cognitive de describers.

Basically, if you paid this for the show, we're all gona jump on an enormous, I mean, enormous zoom meeting. And I will take questions with the search engine team. We will share internal metrics and my new details about the way this functions and doesn't function as a business that's going to be on december six.

If you haven't signed up yet, what are you waiting for search engine that show? And again, we need your questions for out. And roman, you can also submit those at search in that show, that segment with her. We're gna drop IT next week.

Our show is a presentation of odessa and to sob productions. IT is created by me, p geo and truthy preliminary I, and is rust by garret gram and know a job fact checking by mary maths theme original composition and mixing by armed bizarre additional production support from on merchant our executive cruces are generates burma and leary stand is thank you to the team of jigsaw alexa vne which pro and jet and the team auto sa jd crawly, rob, Randy crag ox ardoyne colon gainer mac casey moika just preferences click courtney and hilary shop our agent is orn rose involved ta follow and listen the search engine the pj vote now for free on the autism up or wherever you get your podcasts thanks for listening enjoy your thanksgiving. We'll see into you.