Behind The Scenes |17
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Hey, it's Nancy. Before we begin today, I just wanted to let you know that you can listen to Crime Beat early and ad-free on Amazon Music, included with Prime. A listener's note. The following episode contains coarse language, adult themes, and content of a violent and disturbing nature and may not be suitable for everyone. Listener discretion is advised.

For the past three seasons of Crime Beat, I've worked to give you a behind-the-scenes look at the cases I've covered over 25 years of crime reporting. We've shared 50 episodes since we first launched in 2019. And since then, we've shed light on important issues like intergenerational trauma of Indigenous people caused by residential schools and the 60s scoop, or the obstacles faced by refugees and

and what it's like to overcome the ongoing impact of abuse at a young age. We work hard to make sure we give you the full picture in each episode by looking at all the possible angles. And we're careful in how we share these stories. They're sensitive because behind each of our stories are people. I want to thank the victims and their loved ones who've allowed me to share their stories.

I'm Nancy Hixt, a crime reporter for Global News. Today on Crime Beat, I'm doing something a little different as a special way to end season three. I want to share some insight on journalism and crime reporting and introduce you to the amazing people I work with to bring you this podcast, which includes Chris Bassett, Dela Velasquez, and Rob Johnston.

My name is Chris Bassett. I'm the Acting Vice President of National and Network News for Global News. My job is to oversee the national news programs across the country for Global News. Prior to that, I was the National Director of Content and Editorial Standards. I oversaw content on all platforms for Global News, including having legal and editorial oversight for that content. Before that, I was the News Director and Station Manager at Global Calgary. Thanks so much for joining me, Chris.

Thanks for having me, Nancy. One of the reasons why I wanted to have this conversation with you, because we've worked together for many, many years now, and this allows us an opportunity to really peel back the curtain and take a look at how we cover stories, not only crime stories, but stories in general. Yeah, crime stories are the most complicated types of stories that we cover. They really involve...

real knowledge of the legal system, uh, journalistic principles and practices, a real understanding of what it's like to, uh, to be a victim of crime, uh, and be in the situation, uh, of having, uh, news reporting happening around that as, uh,

you know, as families go through some very difficult, horrific circumstances. And so we have to be really sensitive when covering crime stories. And, you know,

Often there's a perception in watching something on TV, for example, that maybe it's easy and it's really not. We have pages and pages of policies and guidelines connected directly to crime stories. And what we don't want to be doing is

you know, influencing a story in a negative way. So creating problems for victims of a crime or problems for investigators who are trying to catch a perpetrator and get a successful conviction. So it's our job to report, but sometimes that reporting really gets us ahead of the story. And so sometimes we are learning information before police learn it and before a victim's family learns it.

And so it's really important to have that sober second thought about what we're reporting, why we're reporting it, and when we're reporting it.

We run each episode by you, which means that you have to spend hours and hours reading through all of our scripts. And often that means reading late at night or early in the morning, because we know that you have a lot on your plate with your current rule. We'd like to know what that's like.

Yeah, well, I think the thing for me is that I have the space mentally to be able to take on these projects when they come up. There's a lot of content. Obviously, yourself and the team work extremely hard digging deep and gathering lots of information and then compiling it into a story that will make sense and resonate with listeners.

for me i want to make sure that i'm putting my time into it and not you know distractedly working on other tasks so it's important for me to set aside a chunk of time where i can really dedicate to reading it over imagining it you know hearing it as i read it and making sure i'm making the space not not only in my in my day but also emotionally to handle the content because i know

So sometimes it can be disturbing. Sometimes it can be inspiring. Sometimes it can be, you know, extremely sad and emotional, depending on the topic. So I want to make sure that I'm in the right headspace to be able to tackle assignments such as this one.

I think a lot of people don't necessarily understand what the process would be like, what you're looking for and just making sure that we're putting out the best product. Because obviously we have a workflow, you know, I'm out there reporting, I'm gathering the content, I put it together and, you know, then I go through it with my producer, Dila, and then we send it to you. So we do have a very specific process that we go to, but what are some of the things that you're looking for

In journalism, it's really about examining the work from all angles.

It's really taking a piece of content, a story, whether it's a podcast or a news story, and really trying to understand how we know all the things that we know that are contained in it. So you're kind of trying to read through it. And I'm doing Crime Beat. I read through it as a listener for the flow, the feel. Does it feel balanced?

And I want to know, how do we know what we know? So when we're stating something as fact,

Is it a fact? How do we know it's a fact? Is it not opinion? Or is it something that somebody has said? But when we state it as fact, it carries a heavier weight. So I want to take that particular fact and make sure that it is a fact, that it's borne out by strong editorial journalism or something that was introduced in court, as opposed to something that somebody is implying is true, but we haven't necessarily proved that it's true.

So that's the process. It takes me about an hour or so, I think, usually to go through one of the podcasts. I'm usually looking for things that could be legally sensitive. I'm not a lawyer. So if I do run into one of those moments in the pod, I'll ask for...

for a legal opinion and working through our legal counsel that we work with at Global News. We'll examine that and make sure that it is supported legally.

And then, you know, usually get to the end and sort of, you know, arrive as the listeners do and feel like if it was a really satisfying piece of work that I have learned something about a case that you're covering, you know, and maybe we've uncovered some new information for an old case that I might have been familiar with back in my days in Calgary.

Well, and this is probably a good time to talk about the journalistic principles and practices that we follow, because this is a time where misinformation and non-credible news sources, that information spreads rapidly. So I know that I'm proud to work for a trusted media news company because we do have those policies in place and it holds us to a higher standard.

So talk about that and just how you help us to maintain those standards.

The standards are really critical. And, you know, we as a regulated industry in Canada, Global News is regulated by the CRTC and bound by, you know, a number of policies that ensure that we are committed to fair and balanced reporting in the public interest. And so there is recourse and accountability for us as a media outlet.

If you are concerned about the work that we're doing, there are mechanisms for you to complain. Those complaints need to be followed up on and are. And there's a requirement for transparency when we make mistakes.

So, you know, there's a lot at stake for us. Beyond that, our reputation is the most important thing for us. Global news and mainstream media outlets don't want to be wrong. We want to be right. We want to be fair and we want to be balanced. And that's why we're trusted. And many of us have built trust.

those reputations personally and professionally over a great many years in our careers. And the last thing that we want is a careless mistake to bring all of that down and question our balance and objectivity. So it is really important that everybody coming in to journalism is aware of those requirements and that, you know, when we're telling stories, we need to tell them in a way that is

right, not first. So we're not rushing out to get a story to try to beat the competition. We're getting a story out when it's ready, when we're satisfied with it, and it will survive any test for facts or opinion that we're not making an opinion. We're telling the facts of the story. So yeah, it's critical, especially in this age where a lot of people are questioning media, and they really need to know where they can go for trusted, accountable media.

So since we launched the Crime Beat podcast, as well as the TV documentary series, I get a lot of messages, people expressing interest in crime reporting.

And it's a hard one to give advice on because there's quite a bit of work. It's not a matter of, you know, just one day deciding you're going to be a crime reporter. It takes quite a few years and, you know, a lot of education and experience, all of these different things work together to be able to make a successful crime reporter. And one thing that I think it's important to note is that crime reporting is not a nine to five job. But

What's key is that, you know,

whatever is happening, whenever it's happening, that, you know, the rush to a deadline or the fact that you've been woken up in the middle of the night, you know, doesn't prevent us from still doing our job to the best of our abilities and making sure that, you know, despite a lack of sleep or, you know, despite an impending deadline, that we're taking the time to tell the story right. And crime reporting is,

in particular, can be really complex. So we need to make very careful choices and follow them through accordingly. So being a reporter in that situation, you really have to have a good understanding of the types of decisions you need to make in the moment. One of the things that is also unique to reporting and crime reporting, most particularly, is that

You know, the journalists involved really build up sources and they're very connected individually to those particular stories. So that's one of the reasons that happens. Politic reporting is very similar in that.

in that same way. So, you know, the fact that, you know, a story is breaking, you know, the person that is involved might have a, you know, a close source relationship, and they're able to confirm details of a story directly through that personal contact.

which then means that that story chases them wherever they go. So, you know, that's one of the reasons why that happens. And, you know, it's the mark of a good crime reporter because they're able to build those connections inside of a police department, for example. But the downside of that is the better they are at doing that, the more those stories will chase them wherever they go.

One thing that it's important to note is that, you know, global news, crime reporters, you know, anyone who's a really good journalist, you're not going to just be reactive. You're not just going to try to cover the stories, you know, that come out in a press release. But the goal is always to dig up enterprising stories and be, you know, the one breaking the stories. Yeah, you used the word enterprise. That really is the word that sort of represents that.

that spirit, you know, news organizations really should be reflecting the concerns of the general public. And those concerns aren't always, don't always find themselves through official channels. And that's a lot of the reason why people turn to media outlets is that a story isn't getting told or, you know, something isn't getting looked at or isn't getting investigated. And

You know, and Nancy, you've been involved, as many of our reporters have, with stories that were not on the radar at all of officials until a news operation picked it up and told that story. And it's really, you know, it's the vital role we play in a democracy is being able to independently report.

take stories from the public and turn them into news that the rest of our society can benefit from.

So I posted on my Facebook crime page asking listeners to give me some of their questions about crime reporting and journalism. And I thought maybe, Chris, you could help me tackle some of these questions. One of the biggest overwhelming themes that comes up is the emotional impact and work-life balance of crime reporting and journalism as a whole.

And so a lot of listeners want to know how I manage, you know, to have a balance between what I'm doing and home. So, you know, as a manager, how do you handle that and make sure your staff are taking care of themselves? Yeah, it's a really great question and one that's, you know, increasingly important. I

as people become more aware of the, the, the real importance and the real impacts of, uh, of mental health. And, you know, I think in the past it's been, you know, kind of necessary, but almost an expectation that the people that come into this business really compartmentalize, uh,

their experiences or what they may be experiencing at home versus their jobs. And over time, I think we have really realized that it does take a toll and journalists are human beings and they are exposed to some of the worst stories that you can experience. And either through direct impacts being at the scenes, difficult scenes of crimes or accidents,

being touched by a news story that, you know, resonates with you because of a personal experience. And, you know, I think there has been a belief that, you know, journalists just turn that off because they're fair and they're balanced, you know, and they just approach everything very, you know, very

not emotionally. But I think we have all learned that we are people and people have emotional reactions and they get upset and they're impacted by stories that they're covering as are the audiences who hear about them. And there are some cases that really take a heavy toll on

on whole newsrooms, the people that are putting the newscast together in the newsroom, the people that are out in the field covering the story, you know, the managers who are managing it, you know, and every once in a while in the quiet moments in between a newscast, you take a moment and the weight really hits you.

And so, you know, it's important you have strategies for yourself, but it's also important that newsrooms and managers and newsleaders are really aware of that. Sometimes people will push themselves too hard on the story and they're not quite as distant to be able to see that that's happening.

So, you know, you really need to sort of have a buddy system, you know, somebody that's keeping an eye out for you and making sure that you're doing okay, checking in with you, you know, giving you a bit of a break. And as a, you know, as a crime reporter, you know, you try to always present a professional perspective.

And, you know, it's hard to talk about the emotional impact. And it's something I probably avoid all of the time talking about the emotional impact on me. And a lot of times, you know, I'll talk to my family or, you know, I'll talk to one of my managers. I'll talk to you. My husband, my husband is a global news photographer as well. So he gets what I do.

But I have a tendency, like you said, to sometimes compartmentalize. And then once I'm putting together a podcast, which is a very in-depth look at a case, sometimes it's then that a lot of it really hits you and you start to think like you can't really avoid all of the details. Maybe in just putting together the podcast, maybe that means I'm going back over court exhibits.

And maybe I see photos that I might have avoided seeing earlier. And it's then that you're really hit by the true impact. Because usually you try to push your energies on the victims sharing their stories. So you don't want to focus on the impact that it can have on you. But it can be draining. So...

I know sometimes when I'm sending my work for a vet, whether it's to my producer Dila or to you, sometimes I am, I'm at kind of an emotionally drained level. But then I'm also sending my scripts to people who are also very busy doing their jobs. And then I'm expecting you to take on this very emotionally heavy material. So I'm curious how you take care of you dealing with this content.

And, and, you know, make sure that your personal energies and mental energies are there so that, you know, you can make sure that you're, you're doing what you need to do as well.

Yeah, I mean, you know, there's it's kind of making sure that you have your own personal strategies, you know, and that you feel like this isn't something that you're doing alone. And so I think it comes back to that team approach, you know, you know, outraging things that, you know, that are that are happening in a in a case or a story. They're outrageous. And, you know, it's OK to feel that that outrage, you know, and it's OK to have feelings right as a person.

You know, you're not a robot, you know, but, you know, you just have to always make sure that those feelings don't override, you know, any bias or objectivity and that you're, you know, if something is too emotional that you're able to step away and come back to something, you know, you know, you've got your new kittens, you know, and frankly, one of my stress relievers is seeing photos and videos of your kittens, actually. It works for both of us.

You know, but I do all the time. Yeah, exactly. You know, and I do other things that, you know, you know, walking and, you know, I read mystery novels and those sorts of things. It's just important to give your brain a bit of a break, you know.

and, you know, and come back to something, you know, and make sure that you're taking care of yourself. There's, you know, everybody has heard the expression, you know, use the oxygen mask on yourself, because if you're not helping yourself, you can't help other people. That's really true for journalists, you know, really true for crime reporters to make sure that they're taking care of themselves first, and then they're going to be able to take care of the story and deal with, you know, all the complexities that come with it.

That's interesting. One of the questions is if we read, you know, fiction novels or it's just true crime or, you know, watch shows. And I can say from a very young age, I've always been interested in true crime. Like I can remember being a little kid watching unsolved mysteries and, you know, all of those kinds of shows. And yeah,

As I'm getting further and further in my career, I still watch them and I still watch true crime shows. I read true crime books and documentaries. I take in all of that podcasts. However, I like to have some really mindless type stuff, like a Seinfeld type show. And I don't know about you, but sometimes it's nice just to take your mind completely away.

Yeah, I do. I do think there's value sometimes in just turning the light off for a minute. You know, it's important to just kind of give yourself a break, give yourself the space and permission to give yourself a break, know that you'll be supported in doing that. You know, in some cases, you know, when something has been really traumatic and affects a lot of people, you know, we'll look at

bringing in a crisis counselor, somebody to speak to people, you know, for a particularly horrific or disturbing event, you know, there's professional supports as well as personal. And, and, and really it's just about everybody looking after each other, you know, within, within an individual news operation, but you know, but really more widely too. And you would know Nancy, there's lots of examples of people from, you know, rival organizations,

news stations working together to support each other out in the field on a really difficult story.

Yeah, I find that journalists really, for the most part, it's a family. I know we compete, but a lot of people are very supportive of each other. And I think it's great when people can support each other and not just hope that they beat somebody on a story or get ahead of somebody on a story. We're people and it's nice that we have that community. This next question, do

Do you ever recall a time during your career when you felt your life was in danger? So I know as a reporter, there has been multiple occasions where I've contacted you in the middle of a story and I've said, this is a sketchy situation.

There's sort of a bit of a saying that when other people are running away from danger, it's journalists that are running towards it. And that is true. Along with first responders, journalists' job is to go to difficult and sometimes dangerous places. And sometimes in the pursuit of their stories, journalists find themselves in dangerous situations.

You know, the number one priority for us is the safety of our staff, both inside and outside of our newsrooms. And, you know, there's no story that's important enough to put the safety of a journalist at risk.

I think that that's one of the things I really want to get across in this episode is that we really do go to the nth degree to try to get both sides and be able to present the facts and, you know, give all of the information that we can and

One of the questions that is asked multiple times on my social media post is, you know, how you dig up a story, how you, you know, decide what story to air and, you know, the deciding factors, how you get a witness or detective or family member to talk. I think that really comes back to the principles of being a journalist and working for a credible news organization because we

We are going to the source of the information. You know, I am talking to the investigators. I'm going through the court documents. The series that I just presented on Crime Beat called Scarred But Not Broken. I met the players involved in that case. Like, absolutely.

more than two decades ago, like in 1999, I believe I met them. And I've stayed in touch all of these years. So I think there's something to be said for maintaining those relationships and knowing that just because you cover a story one day, that story doesn't finish. Like there's follow through and there's follow ups to do. And maybe you can give your perspective on that.

I think I would say, you know, great reporters play the long game. And when you do that, you'll find that, you know, many times, probably the majority of times, someone who hasn't spoken ever publicly about their story at some point will be ready, you know, and

Reporters that have maintained a relationship, haven't pressured that person, haven't ambushed them, sort of as a live camera or microphone, but have been patient, maintained contact, been empathetic. And over time, that person is ready to speak. And when they do, they'll speak to the reporter that they built that relationship with over time.

And actually following on that point, Nancy, I know one of the questions that had come up was about how you go about investigating crimes as you do the podcasts and prepare them for broadcast. So I guess I would ask you, when you have one of those stories, like the one that you just did, where you're revisiting something from many, many years earlier, how do you go about it? How do you go about putting it together? I know by the time I get the finished product,

You know, you've done a ton of work behind the scenes by the time I see it. So what's your process?

Yeah. And sometimes I'm working on multiple cases at a time. I know, you know, I'll be doing an interview. I did one yesterday that won't air till well into the fall because I need to kind of pick away at certain cases. So when it comes time to actually put it together, you know, let's use the scarred but not broken series as a good example. I started gathering those interviews several years ago. But yeah,

Like you just have in your head certain things that need to come together to be able to get that full picture. And sometimes it's the matter of applying for court documents so that I can, you know,

put the script up against the court documents and triple fact check everything. And sometimes it's that that's missing that will hold a podcast up for a little while. People will say, well, why haven't you covered this one? Or why haven't you covered that one? Well, part of it is this process that it can sometimes take a long time to access documents. Maybe I have to make a freedom of information request.

But one of the biggest requirements I feel is that having the victims and their family members participate really allows people to get that emotional response.

And I want you to feel that I want you to feel what those families went through and, you know, it makes it more difficult to do for sure. It's difficult for everybody. These aren't easy interviews to do. It's emotional for these people that are participating, but often it's therapeutic to be able to have their voices heard. And, you know, in this last one, I spent.

I waited specifically on this one. One of the sticking points for Scarred But Not Broken was I wanted to make sure I reached out to the original families that were involved in the homicide that this whole case started on.

And I wasn't able to. It was really hard to try to find them. And in the end, it did. It took me a couple of years. And in the end, they weren't interested in participating, which I completely respect their privacy. And I kind of went to the nth degree to, you know, keep some names out of it so that their privacy is protected. But I wanted to make sure that I could say to you, OK, this is what I did.

Because a lot of times I know the questions that you're going to ask, like we know each other quite well, and I've been doing this for a long time. So I'll know some of the questions you're going to ask. So I'll kind of put things on the back burner and be quietly working on one story while I'm writing a totally different episode, because I'm trying to answer some of those questions and get some of those elements lined up so that when I finally put my energy into putting the podcast together, that I have all of that information.

I'm curious, Chris, what do you find to be the most rewarding part of being a part of Crime Beat? Yeah, that's a great question. I think, you know, the material is excellent. You put a lot of work into it. The way that the pod is produced really resonates with people. It's clear the audience is responding to it in a positive way. You know, we have a lot of interaction, a lot of questions like the ones that we've been answering some of today. And so, yeah,

For me, in some cases, it's seeing how you have managed to move a story forward, tell it in a new way, something that maybe has been out of the public eye for a long time. But with the passage of many years, you've been able to find a new angle to it and tell something that people hadn't heard before in a story, even some that the people are really familiar with.

And so, you know, for me, it's, you know, kind of opening up, uh, the, the 30 page document and seeing what's inside, you know, and, and, you know, being able to discover it, uh, like your listeners do, uh, as I read it and bet it, I, you know, I really like that process, um, you know, and, and, you know, sort of feeling the, the passion that you put into finding the, the people to, to speak about, you know, sometimes very difficult and sensitive material, um,

And, you know, and that you're there to support them through it as they tell their story. You know, and then seeing what the team is able to do to, you know, produce, you know, a really compelling and interesting product that everybody is really engaging with. So, yeah, I think that that sums it up for me. And, you know, and I think, you know, for probably many of your listeners as well.

Thank you so much for agreeing to do this. I know I've been asking, I've been wanting to do this for a very long time. It's tough to coordinate your schedule. You're a very in-demand news person. So I am so grateful that you took the time to do this. And I'm always grateful that you take the time to read through dozens of pages of scripts. I know you can expect some

you know, like clockwork. Every couple of weeks, I send you a text and I say, you know, I've just emailed you a little light reading and it's a lot. So we appreciate all that you do. Well, it is very much my pleasure, Nancy. It was great to talk to you today. I also want to introduce you to two other very important people, including the producer I work very closely with on each episode. She's taught me everything I know about developing a podcast episode.

I'm Dila Velasquez. I am in charge of content management and audience development for Curious Cast Podcast Network. I, in particular, oversee all of the original content. So shows like Crime Beat, 13 Hours, China Rising, History of the 90s, What Happened To, those types of shows for the network.

Before I started in podcasting, I actually, and at Chorus, I was at E1. So I've worked in podcasts now for almost like six years. And before that, I was working in factual entertainment. So I worked for many years on a food show that's very popular that

traveled across the country and on Wipeout Canada. So that's kind of a short little resume of what I've done to get to where you are, Nancy, working with you. So what you might not realize is Dila and I don't work in the same city. I'm in Calgary, she's in Toronto, and we've only met in person once. But we talk daily as we collaborate on the show.

I get a lot of messages from listeners who want to know about our team. So we want to walk you through how an episode comes together. So this is how it goes. Dila and I brainstorm on the story, and then I begin writing. Once I have a script, Dila goes in and works her magic.

Deela, explain your magical process. I was going to say, I'm like, for me, it really starts when you finish that script and it lands in my inbox. And then basically my goal really is to...

Try and make it as impactful for the audience as it can be. Meaning, you know, we'll take... And it's gotten better, obviously, as we basically are in each other's minds. Like I can hear Nancy's voice when I read the script as if I'm the audience for the first time. So I really try to put myself...

in the shoes of those listening right now. And imagine how it's going to sound like as I'm reading it for the first time. And, you know, like I was just thinking that we have been working together not even quite two years. Like it's crazy because I feel like I've known you forever, but...

I think if I think back to that first episode and how foreign writing a podcast was to me and how steep that learning curve was, because I was writing two-minute television news stories, and how we kind of learned to work together and collaborate together, how that started and to where we are now. Like you said, you kind of tried to feel how my voice is. I feel when I'm writing, I try to have...

You kind of in my head saying, oh, you should do this or you should try this wording. And I'll have Chris Bassett in my head, too. I'll have Rob in my head thinking, you know, just all of these different things because we collaborate so closely. I think we're always trying to be kind of one step ahead and try to think positively.

what would this person want me to be doing? So I think that really shows in the end product. And I think we've come a long way. And if you listen, I think each episode we're really progressing. Particularly, I think suspense has been the biggest lesson that we've learned as we've been working on this for so long is to really try and hold back

as much as we can, the suspense, so that we don't give away the story too easily or too quickly, which maybe we did in the past.

Well, and I, you know, at the center of our stories, you know, the victims always come first, the victim stories, the victim's families, that impact that's always at the center. But what we've, and this was something I really had to learn because I was used to getting a story out in two minutes, right? Like I keep coming back to that when you've done that for like 20 years and you've shared a story so quickly and just get, get out the key points. It's,

It's a difficult move to learn how to slowly reveal. And I know you always say like, let's peel this back slowly. Let's do a slow reveal. The listener experience is so much better. And I think it really also brings out how those families feel as they're going through it if we're writing it that way.

Our responsibility on the show, because the victims are at the heart of each story, has been to really shelter the story itself, make sure that this story is going to be taken care of in our hands. So what that means to me, at least, is making sure that the emotional impact

core or center of each of the victims in each of these of these cases remains intact so like that's always to me the the most important thing and it's kind of like a mandate mandate for the show is to make sure that we respect that and then everything else that we like if that's the core then we from there we start building outwardly so that it is more you know

impactful, if that makes sense. Yeah. And I think that that's what sets Crime Beat apart from a lot of other podcasts is that we are sharing those stories, the interviews with those families, but we're sharing it in a compassionate way, but we're also trying to share it in a suspenseful way so that the listener- In a balanced way. Yes, exactly. In a balanced way. And factual, all of these things. Correct.

Yeah. Yeah. But those are all like, those are, I take all of those sort of things in filters. If you went into account as I'm reading it for the first time, because I know that if we, the, if we hit all of those markers, then I know that the story is deserving to be told on the show. Like that's, that's it. Like that's our mandate. Our mandate is to making sure that we take care of each of these stories and

in a way that's respectful, balanced, and factual. And you know what I find interesting is sometimes when I'm explaining a story to you for the first time and we're talking about how we're going to put it together, you know, I get really emotional and really wrapped up in how I get out of breath and I'm telling you this story and I'm trying to spill all these details all at once because I've, you know, these stories have impacted me. And then I'm like, okay, but how do we share that? And then you're like,

Well, do it like that. Like sharing, you know what I mean? And sometimes it just takes that back and forth to kind of push me to be like, oh yeah, this is how we can do it. And it's always like, to me particularly, I like to find a slightly different angle that maybe we haven't tried before.

into the stories too. Yeah, exactly. So, I mean, I think we kind of really collaborate and bounce back and forth. Um, and, and people will hear, hear my voice. And so I think that that's why this episode is so important to me is I really want to get across to the listeners, you know, I'm the crime reporter. Sure. And I've met all of these families and I, their stories of all, uh,

left an impact on my own life and I want to share them in the best way, but I couldn't do it without this collaborative effort with our team. So that's why I, you know, I love working with my team and I wanted everybody else to get to meet you guys. I mean, and I think that's really what is powerful about Crime Beat is that, and rewarding too, is that you share these stories with

with us, your team, as well as the audience. So we are just as impacted in different ways. Like you get to see and meet these families and these victims. We get to hear them for the first time through your storytelling. So we also get to be impacted

by these stories. Like I, there are some of them that I just kind of carry with me. You know, I think about the, the boy who fell through the cracks and definitely the one that we just did this season with the disgraced doctor, the neurologist and how powerful it was that we

gave that space to the victim impact statements that I don't think I've heard. And, you know, other true crime podcasts give that amount of time to victims to really give them a voice. It's actually just passing the mic to that so they can share what they felt, what they went through.

And, you know, I think that's incredibly powerful. And those stories stay with me.

Earlier in the episode, I was taking audience questions and Chris Bassett and I were kind of going back and forth trying to answer some of those questions from my post on social media. And one of the questions that, you know, I probably received 30 or 40 times in different, written in different ways, was just the emotional impact. And obviously, these are really

emotional stories. And, you know, obviously they have an impact on me, but it also impacts the rest of the team. And so I wanted to ask you kind of how, you know, how you deal with that. One of the ways I deal with it that I didn't mention when I was talking to Chris is, you know, I talk to you. We talk a lot. We go back and forth. Sometimes I just need to get something

off my chest, I need to vent it to you, or I'm feeling especially, you know, impacted by a particular interview that I've done. So you're my go to to be able to talk to you about that. Because you're going to read the episode. And, you know, maybe we explain some of that impact in the episode, you know, you have a way of really, um,

helping me to be able to figure out, okay, how do I, where do I go with this? So, you know, that's one of my strategies, but I wanted to know, you know, the emotional impact on you and how you deal with that. Yeah. I mean,

The power of storytelling can be therapeutic, right? Like that is, I mean, we know that. So making these stories have a life and sharing them immediately creates a community and we can all be kind of supportive of each other because we

we know the stories. So whether or not we're impacted directly by them, by us being part of the audience, by us then sharing that what we've heard with others, that it almost kind of lessens the load on any one single individual because it creates support. And so that's how I deal with it in a way is by knowing that we're sharing this in community with everybody who's listening.

And I have to add that Dela and I are both huge animal lovers. So we are constantly sharing photos back and forth. Like if I'm having a really heavy day and she knows I'm doing really stressful work, I'll get a photo of her dog sent to me multiple times and he's adorable. And I, you know, I don't even wait for the opportunity to know if you needed a little, you know, cuteness in your day. I send you cat photos and kitten photos all the time.

all day, every day? Well, Alibi and Echo are very popular in my household. And Reagan's My Dog is, I mean, if you heard a little bit of scratching or at any point during one of my answers, most likely it was My Dog.

So Dila, tell me what you find to be the most rewarding aspect of working together on Crime Beat. Other than talking constantly, which is one of my favorite things. Nancy and I are very, very close, even though, again, we've never we don't live in the same town, but we talk probably I talk to Nancy more than anyone else.

But what I find really, really rewarding is I'm a huge fan of document of documentaries. I am hugely inspired by documentaries. And so being able to essentially put one together every other week, um,

is magical. It's a dream come true for me when it comes to like my career. And getting to carry and shelter these stories through and share them with like a massive community of people who are also supportive and loving of the show and these stories. It's really, really rewarding to be amongst people who value the power of story as much as we do.

Well, thank you. I really appreciate you joining me. Thank you. And finally today, I want to introduce you to the man who makes you really feel the podcast. I'm Rob Johnston. I'm the lead audio and sound designer for Curious Cast. And one of the shows, of course, I take care of is Crime Beat, but also we do shows like History of the 90s, 13 Hours.

the ongoing history of new music, what happened to China Rising and a bunch of other podcasts. So my role is to edit them all together and make them all come to the vision of the hosts and the producers and the writers. Really, there is no one that I've ever met that knows more about audio than you. And if I have an audio issue, which is like,

pretty much every day. I'm constantly asking you for how do I make this sound better? And really it all just ends up on your lap and somehow you make it all sound great. Texts are common between the two of us, I think, about questions about what can we do for this and what can we do for that? Well, and kind of

point of this episode is to really explain the collaborative effort that we have on Crime Beat. This is a whole team effort. And so I really want people to understand the role that you play. And for regular listeners of Crime Beat, I'm sure that you'll notice there are specific themes that are built in through the music and sound. And that is all

all Rob. So he helps transition into it. Maybe it's a twist in the story, or maybe there's some suspense that we really want to build on. So Rob, can you explain how you do this? And often you understand what we're trying to get at, and we don't even have to tell you. It's like you read our mind. Well, one of the things that I do is I don't actually read the script before it lands on my lap.

I'd like to go through and do a rough edit and just sort of assemble and listen to the story and kind of get a feel for how it develops, where it's going, sort of the ebb and the flow and the chapter changes and the mood changes and the tempo and textures. And then as I build out the show, I go through an inventory of music selections that we have through various libraries and just try to find something that matches where you're going with the voice, with the narration, telling us the story.

where the people you talk to, how they're feeling, how their emotions are playing into it. So I'll find music that kind of conveys those feelings. There may be tension, investigation points, reflection. And then you and I, we have our own little code words. Can you put in the sad piano bed? Or could you put in some of the Norwegian forest feel? ♪

We just sort of have this language between us that we know in each other's brains what it is we're trying to have it sound like. One of the things I've noticed over the time since I started the show is every episode I try to make sound better than the one previous.

And if you, if I go back and listen to, and if the listener goes back and listens to the first season, I think there's been an evolution from the first episode all the way through to now. And there are times I think, geez, I'd really like to go back and kind of redo the first season because the show was evolved as we've gone along. Um, you know, we, we bring in music pieces that, that the audience will know are familiar, but we'll also look to add new transitional pieces into it as we go along, just to keep it fresh and keep it, uh,

Just keep it moving forward so it doesn't all sound the same. That's, I think, is the biggest challenge is I want to make sure that it always sounds fresh. It always sounds like it's evolving. One of the things that I also do with the music is they act as chapter changes in the story.

They can punctuate something or they can let something just sort of hang there and resonate with the audience so they can digest the piece that's that that has just landed and the impact and especially the emotional impact that that comes from it.

I remember, you know, being a huge listener and I still am to a lot of podcasts before I ever wrote a podcast episode. And I remember thinking a really good episode is one where there's so much emotion and so many twists and turns and so much mystery that, you know, I'll be driving, but I'll be yelling at the speaker and saying, no way. And I think that that's what it adds. Like your pauses, the dramatic sound, it adds so much and it really helps people

It's like your sound that you add is taking the listeners by the hand and guiding them through. And that can be a challenge in itself because I, in my mind, and I think a lot in the listener's mind, that what I do is secondary to everything. Really what makes the show stand out is

is the work you do and the work and, you know, the guests that you have on. And especially when the family members are involved, because you really get the emotional impact of what they're feeling and what they're, what they felt through, through the stories. So I don't want to get in the way of that. I just kind of want to keep moving it along and keep the audience engaged. Not that they wouldn't be, but you know what I mean? Just, just flushing it out for a full story.

Yeah, really just enhances the story, right? Like it really just helps build on. And, you know, we're trying to give these victims and their families a voice. That's our mandate. And that's what, you know, that's what means so much to me to be able to do. And you just help it all kind of, you know,

Same. Like, it's hard to explain that, but it really does bring together that emotion. I am curious what the most rewarding aspect of working together on Crime Beat is for you. I think it's the stories where you hear from the families that they say, thank you for letting us tell the story about our son, our daughter, our brother, our husband.

Because a lot of the time people only really hear about, you know, your three to five minute news stories or the follow-ups that happen. And these things can get easily lost in, in just in life, in everything that's going on. And, you know, with, with the podcast, it gives us a chance to spend 35, 45, an hour, however long telling the story of, of the people involved in it and really bringing, bringing to life who they are.

I think that to me is the most rewarding part is that in some sense, I guess it brings the story a bit full circle for the audience because they might not have known what happened in the end.

One of the things I explained earlier in this episode is that, you know, Dila, she works in Toronto. So do you. So interesting that you and I have only met once as well. That's right. We all really get to know each other really well because we have to work so closely. And we, you know, I just have the best team to work together with on Crime Beat. And it's

One thing that stands out to me, though, is that this is very emotional subject matter. You know, these are traumatic stories we're sharing just

You know, a lot of these are devastating to, I know, for the families who experience them. And my heart always goes out to those people who've experienced the loss or experienced the trauma. And there, of course, that impacts me and reporting on these cases. It impacts others.

all of us as a team in different ways. And so I guess I wonder, because one of the most asked questions is how we all deal with this differently and how we handle working with this kind of content on a regular basis and, you know, working with these families and just making sure that we're

doing their stories justice, which is kind of the most important thing to all of us. It is the hardest part. I think, uh, I'm not going to lie. There are times where I've had to walk away from some of the edits. I'm just like, I can't, I can't get through the rest of it. It's just, it's too emotional. Um, I mean, I, I don't, I don't know these stories. I live, you know, thousands of kilometers away. A few of them I've heard about, but the majority of them I I've not heard before. Um,

but they all affect you on a human nature. And for me,

I think the ones that have the most impact are the ones usually about parents and kids. You know, having kids of my own, you really kind of get this, my God, if that had happened to me, how would I feel sort of reaction? And you kind of visualize your own kids in these situations. And there are times where it's overwhelming. And there's nothing wrong with walking away from it and coming back to it later with a bit of a clearer head, to be honest with you.

but that's just it's human nature well and i think it just helps to refocus us all to make sure that we always get at that impact and make sure that we're always focused on giving these victims and their families that clear voice because imagine i always think about it this way the impact on me is really so insignificant compared to the impact on these families

And so the least I can do is be the messenger and give them that platform and give them, you know, their chance to share their stories and to tell someone who their loved one was or, you know, how they've dealt with trauma or how they're continuing to deal with it. Because I think at the end of the day, all of these stories inspire me. And I'm sure it's the same for you. You know, it's difficult subject matter, but I think

We're all very inspired by how much strength these people have. And I think our entire team feels that because we know that these are real people and we want to make sure that we're doing it justice. It's been many times you've sent us messages and we've sent messages back like, are we on the right track? Are we on the right track? Is this working? Is this working? Have we told the story right? Have we missed something?

But that shows you that you care.

Yeah, and there's a lot of collaborating and brainstorming behind the scenes that people don't realize that happens. And I think that that's a sign. Like, this is the best team that I have ever worked with. We collaborate so well. And it's, I feel like I've known you guys for so long. I talk to Dila every day. I'm constantly texting you both. And yeah, we, and I shared when I was speaking with Dila,

We shared that one of the other things is we send pet photos back and forth. And that's one of our de-stressing. And I know you get sent quite a few kitten photos. Exactly. And I send the dog photos back your way as well. Thank you so much. I really appreciate you talking to me and I appreciate all that you do for Kindly. Well, I appreciate all the, I appreciate the feedback from the audience, honestly. To me, that's the most rewarding aspect. And I thank them for that.

Thank you to Rob, Dila, and Chris for joining me for this special behind-the-scenes look at Crime Beat. And thank you for listening to the important stories I share on Crime Beat. I hope that by the end of each episode, you not only feel like you got to know the victims and their families, I also hope you're left feeling empowered after hearing the facts and learning about the ripple effects of crime.

We'll be back in the fall with a lot more stories. Until then, Crime Beat is written and produced by me, Nancy Hixt, with producer Dila Velasquez. Audio editing and sound design is by Rob Johnston. Special thanks to photographer-editor Danny Lantella for his work on this episode. And thanks to Chris Bassett, the acting VP of National and Network News for Global News.

I would love to have you tell a friend about this podcast, and you can help me share these important stories by rating and reviewing Crime Beat on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen. You can find me on Twitter at Nancy Hixt, on Facebook at Nancy Hixt Crime Beat, and I would love to have you join me for added content on Instagram at nancy.hixt. That's N-A-N-C-Y dot H-I-X-T.

Thanks again for listening. Please join me next time.