Julia Gets Wise with Ina Garten
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Heads up, guys, a little later in this episode, i'll be doing a different kind of ad. It's for this new invention that stands a real chance of ending home food waste. I'm not kidding.

And in case you didn't know, home food wait is a huge problem for the planet mill. That's the name of the company has created what they call a food recycle, which does exactly what the label says. So i've got one of these meal things and is totally changed my life in the kitchen.

It's made dealing with all kinds of scraps and leftovers just incorrect bly clean and easy while cutting the volume of my garbage in half for real. And the impact of this mill food recycle goes way beyond what IT doesn't my kitchen. It's given me a way to get those food scraps back to the farm.

I was so blown away by the mill idea that I actually came on as an investor. You'll hear more later. So for now, I just wanted to do this little warm up to see if I could get you as excited about IT as I am if your curiosity is already picked, you can check this out now at mild dot com slash wiser.

Hey listeners, it's me. Julia were back for season three of wise than me. We've got so much more wisdom to share from the legendary old ladies featured this season. You know, so many of our guests have written memories reflecting on their experiences, and by putting IT all into writing, they've uncovered a Better understanding of what truly matters. Jane funda calls IT a life for you and wisely says, to know where you wanna go, you first have to understand where you've been so brilliant, right? That's why we've created a special wise of the mean notebook so you can kick start your own life for you and write down some of the nuggets of wisdom these women share in each new episode. We just added this groovy hard cover notebooks to our merch shop to buy yours head over to, rather than me, a shop that come today.

Once in our travels, when I was a little girl about eight, I think, uh, when my daddy tom was a surgeon on the whole hospital ship, we were living in tune. Sia, and I remember very vividly that I was upset with my mom because he said I had to finish my dinner before I had desert, which made no sense at all.

And there was another couple there who were working with my dad, and the woman in the couple said, well, how about I take you out for lunch, just you and me, and then you can have desert first. And so that was very appealing, as you can imagine. And I did.

We'd went to lunch, and I ordered a huge hot forge sunday. I mean, just huge. And I just gobble that fucker up.

And then when I was time to actually ordered lunch, well, I couldn't really order lunch because I was too full. But I assure you of one thing, I did not learn a lesson that day. I've always been a true and deep lover of sweets and desserts.

In fact, one of my earliest memories is of these um pour cookies that my grandma dd made for me. You know, the kind that have the fork in print on them. I still have her hand written index card with a cookie recipe.

Well, actually I think I have IT. I don't know what IT is. My mom may have IT, I don't know, but I love desert so much.

I don't know exactly why, other than it's so sweet and yummy. But god, why not? It's always been like that for me. And so, you know, when our kids were little providing for them, obviously this is some instinctual maternal thing.

You just get this incredible joy out of your kids finishing a meal that you may for them, right? The most basic kind of nurturing. And i'm also very captive to ritual, as I think we all are, to some extent.

So I put great store into birthdays and making sure that both of our kids always had memorable birthdays. And so when our first sun, Henry was little, you know, just a little toddle, I was so looking forward to making him a bird ket. And so I asked him what kind of cake he wanted.

And I mean, honestly, he was little. He was barely even talking. What does he know about cakes? But he was a fanciful kid. So when I said what kind of cake to one hand, and he said, orange.

And this was clearly the color orange, I don't think that he had any idea that a cake could even have an orange flavor. This was just about the look of IT. You know, I think about IT, just a giant orange cake.

So I said about looking for an orange cake that I could make for him. And I did, I found a bunt cake made with real oranges that I, then Jerry, rigged into a three layer cake, and then I concocted the cream cheese frosting to go with IT. And I shouldn't say this because, you know, it's not very farm to table of me.

But I died the frosting orange, not a bright orange, more sort of of a peach salmon color, so that IT was aesthetically pleasing, you know, and I covered IT in Mandarin oranges on top. IT was going just, and IT was a huge hit with Henry, and i've been making that cake on his birthday ever since. And then my Younger son, charlie e, he requested a key line pie.

So I made him this key line pie. I ordered the key line juice from just one place these guys, uh, called the manhattan skyline juice company. And you can look at up because that's all they sell for real key line juice, nothing else, which is just so fabulously old school.

I just love IT. So i've been making that keyless pie for my charity for almost twenty five years. And the orange cake for handling going on thirty years now, I use fresh oranges from our own tree, so it's even Better for me.

This is just the quinta ance of a gesture of love is such a simple thing, you know, measuring, mixing, baking. But IT does take focus and concentration and exactly. And even then, IT doesn't always go the way you want.

You know, there some luck and carma mixed into IT too. But boy, it's just, it's so meaningful to me to make something sweet and points tly delicious for the people that I love. And I plan on doing this for the rest of my life, this little thing, or actually kind of a big thing, because IT gives me such joy and pride.

It's become a sacrement really now to me. So I guess cooking can take on a significance away beyond just being delicious and nutritious. And that's why I am so delighted today to get to talk to ana.

Hi, i'm Julia li dice, and this is wiser than me, the podcast where I get schooled by women who are less than me.

Anybody hungry, you're gonna be, because our guests today has been dished ed out fabulous recipes and a shit ton of charm for decades. SHE is the barefoot contest that the queen of comfort cooking, her signature bob and blue shirt, or his iconic as her roasted chicken, but is not just about the food. Her down to earth approach has not only transformed the colony escape, but has also left real mark.

And how will people perceive and embrace the art of home cooking? I mean, we eat roasted carrots and our house because of her. In an era full of star chefs, SHE claims not to be a chef, but a cook.

He stands out not just for her recipes, but for her genuine connection with her audience, which has made her a cultural figure name for her warmth and authenticity. And somehow that makes her food even more scrumptious. One iconic store, two hit T V shows, thirteen best selling cookbooks and a fifty five year long marriage.

Later, our guest feels univerSally cherished, especially by her husband, Jeffery, but also by me. And for me, shy really pretty much is up there with fresh salty butter on warm bread. I think it's because he makes every mail feeling a cosy get together with an old friend.

Now, full disclosure, i'm really just hoping to get invited to a dinner party atter. And I bring the desert. I will. I'm so pleased to welcome the James speared award winner and the hamptons most notorious resident, a woman who is so much wiser than me. I, A garden.

I know. I'm so happy to be here.

I love you, I love you. I love you. Let's just say that from the start.

I love that the rose carrots, you think of you, you think of rose chicken and rose carrots because that I always say it's about those two things. IT is, it's about simplicity and delicious.

completely. One hundred percent. You brought carrots back into my life in a very powerful way. So let me ask you something, are you comfortable if we share your real age?

I am.

And what is your real age.

my real age of seventy six.

And how old do you feel?

I know you know I can't like being seventy six I get to do whether .

yeah yeah no ah I wouldn't find .

five old body right but the rest of IT i'll take the seventy six I hear that I love .

that you're completely embracing IT. I feel the same way about getting older. I mean, there are aspects of being Younger, physical aspects that would be nice, but there is something very freeing about getting older, right?

Well, I feel like when we're Younger, we wonder what we're become of us. And when we're older, we know it's gonna come of us and it's turned out really great.

Yeah, I completely hear that. And it's it's nice to feel it's like boots that you've been wearing a long time. They're super comfortable and you feel confident in them.

I think when you're Younger, you feel like have to do everything because you know just you're just building things and you have to do everything that um that comes your way. And then when you get older, you start choosing and you choose because it's fun, not for any other reason, right?

Well, that's right. And I remember in doing research that to talk with you and you were saying that, uh jeffrey, when you were um making the decision to leave uh government the White house and you weren't sure what to do and he said we'll just find something that's fun for you and .

because he said IT for me particularly because if it's fun, I want to do IT. If it's not fun, you can get me to do IT with with the cattle prod.

I had a physics teacher when I was in high school, mister coin, marty coin, and he was a wonderful teacher. He would write out the bottom of every paper, the utne he would say have fun at all costs and yeah and obviously that can be misunderstood but I knew what he meant and i've certainly applied that in my own life um it's an incredible lens through which to make decisions .

yeah and .

yeah so tell me, take me through a typical eating day for you like you well, I mean, what you eat today? What if you had to eat?

Well, it's pretty orderly actually yeah, when to hear. I pretty much have toast and coffee for breakfast and the toast test to have good french button on IT with save sea salt. Yes, it's called bird barat B A R A T T E with flake sea salt and it's just so delicious.

And so that's what we have for breakfast. And then and exactly ten thirty, I have a cup of tea, was a little honey in IT. And it's not ten twenty nine, and it's not ten thirty one.

At ten thirty, my brain goes being, I have got some tea. okay. And then for lunch every night, I always have soup, which is so easy because I can make a lot of soup and leave IT in the freezer. What do you have today? I had a .

time winning soup 亚 me。

And then for dinner, we either go out to dinner with friends or we ordered dinner from a restaurant. I've been testing recipe all day. The last thing I want to do is make dinner.

Yeah, I hear that. And I don't like to have for dinner what I tested during the day unless it's totally done and it's so good. I want effort to have IT, right? That's work. And this is I got IT and I don't want to eat something. You go and we should have more rosemary in IT.

It's just not fun. Yeah, not fun. There will go with the fun again. I want to show you a picture for our listeners.

I'm showing a picture of what I made for me, my husband, this morning for breakfast and see if you can see IT. I wait. Shit god, I don't have to get that thing away.

Oh god, i'm trying to work my iphone. Okay, wait, can you see that? That's slash .

takes on toast. Smash takes to smash takes .

with the grainy mustard.

Is that grave? Yeah, I have fabulous was said to get you in the mood for .

today yeah and once I was just looking, I was revealing a bunch your code books, which of course I own, and I was just of wanted to get, oh yeah, you kidding me. I mean, I could not live without them. I could not live without them.

Thank you.

How was your relationship change to food as you've gotten older? You know, I mean, are their taste that you have now that you didn't plan or things I mean, back in the day or things you didn't like when you're Younger that you love? Now I think .

my style has been changed at all. I think that might be my sophistication about things has changed, and i've learned about a few things. So, you know, I didn't know what truffle button was, and you know what Sarah cha was. There are a few things in the twenty five years i've been writing cookbooks that i've kind of acquired as part of the repair of things that I can use. But I think I still like roast chicken and work's carrots.

I know you can't .

beat just it's one thing I learned when I had especially food stories that people eat differently at home and they do in a restaurant. They like really simple food, right? And that's true about me too.

Actually, I like simple footing the restaurant tuban. It's people don't want fancy meal with morals at home. Yeah and so I think that has have changed.

What IT has change little bit is my insistence on flavor that if I go back to a recipe twenty years ago and needs a little extra something, and I think it's always something like some acid, like lemon juice or red wine vinegar, or something salty, like farmers on cheese, just that little thing at the end that needs to be added. That kind of brings out the flavor. So i've gotten Better at that.

Better at identifying that, right? Yeah, because I think our taste bud's change you. I mean, I think that they physically change. Don't ask me how or why that happens.

I will maybe. But I didn't like a antro when I started, and I still don't like sancha now. So that'll never change.

Yeah, now listen, you and I are going to have a huge argument about that because I love, it's a long, you love. I put on everything.

do you really?

Yeah, I do. I make chicken salad the other day, and I just throw tons of santa and IT. Why don't you like santa?

By the way? I think it's physiological. I think what you taste is now what I is .

a really maybe .

it's really physiological. IT tastes like soap to me. And if you put one one leaf of silentio on anything, that's all I taste.

Oh my god, that's incredible.

And I like how things are layer. You know, like you flavor bubbles up with chocolate and coffee and vanilla. They have to be layered the right way and silent to once there's a leaf of santo. Actually, this is silentia at the next table, I can taste that it's just so bad.

Okay, so I know what not to get you for Christmas. A bunch of santer. Sometimes i'd like to think, believe IT or not, this conserve comes me down in my mind.

I think about what in my kitchen is a must have, you know, like just basic things I have. For example, I have a hand h electric mixer that my mom gave me and IT says general electric on IT. It's from like, yeah like the early seventies, I think.

And that must have for me. Or a rubber spatula, you know, with a little tiny curve with a concave center. Are there things like that, that you just tools in the kitchen that you just have a love affair with?

I do have, especially from when I got married, from before I got married actually. Yeah IT was from cowl doors.

Ww doors. Anybody outdoors? I do. They had everything at cow doors, right? Everything, everything. And is IT especially that is still really works well.

IT works perfectly well and I can't replace IT. I can't find the same spache or there either huge spatulas or tiny spatulas. And this is just the right side spatula.

I had one of those two but it's not when I before I was married. But i've had IT for probably twenty five years and I just I love IT.

This is fifty five years and it's still good.

I thought referred to your is this is.

Even Better than this factual.

Yeah, exactly. So moving out of the kitchen for a moment. Um you're a gardener.

You have a beautiful garden, your house in the hampton. Thank you. I'm in, send a barber, california. And I planted garlic, which i've never planted before.

I haven't IT. And the girl escapes that they grow on the top. You can grill them.

They are really go away, really. Yeah, yeah. And I did not know. You break apart your clove of garlic, and you take each individual clove, and you plan IT.

Plan IT, yes.

and already popped through the earth. And I just planned IT like nine days ago, which is kind of amazing.

you know? Yeah, yeah. Is gardening teach you patients? I don't tend to be patient, but I like seeing something of in a garden. Yes.

IT teaches me, certainly does teach me patience but also it's a thrill because you don't know yes, there's so much um you know if you go away for a week and then come back to look at your garden, things will have changed and so it's IT always feels like a miracle to me IT does.

And also, the structure of the plant is different from the flower itself. When the flower dies, the plant itself is beautiful, and then the seed pods are different from the flower. So yes, IT just keeps of all thing. Yeah, that's just great. Yeah.

it's a reminder of life and the miracle of life, you know, and the circle and the circle. Yeah, it's just gorgeous until the bunnies come and eat my roses.

major roses.

Yeah, those little mother fuckers.

But they're so adorable.

so precious. But I do I do kind of turn into like farmer a gregor or elmar five. I ve learned to hate them.

And can you garden all you around because you're in send .

barba yeah that's great. But believe IT are not yes but we do have seasons. So um so certain things look great right now and certain things are dormant.

Any of rosemary hedges which we couldn't even begin to have here, right?

I know and every time my mother visits SHE cuts well, I mean, I have rosemary all over the place. It's like ground cover and SHE just goes around cutting IT and she's like she's a crazy woman and SHE puts IT into a bag to take home to herself and dollar girlfriends.

I think I never rose. Marry new york.

I know, but fear special, right? Coming in this garden, we have to take a break. Now my conversation with inner garden continues in just a bit.

I always knew food waste was a huge problem, but IT wasn't until recently that I realized just how huge. I mean, wasting anything is bad, right? But wasting food is like this totally unnecessary level of bad. The stats are awful.

As a country, we're throwing out like half our friends stuffing IT in these liquid field leaky trash bags and hauling IT all over the place in trucks to bury IT all in a landfill where it's damaging our climate faster than the entire airline industry. Henders problem. I can't believe we haven't figured out a Better way to deal with this shit.

But guess what, someone has figured that out. It's the company I was talking about earlier mill. You can check them out right now at mill.

Dcom flash, wiser. okay. So they've invented an incredibly simple and elegant solution that's actually made my life easier.

IT all starts with this really cool, fully automated kind of futuristic invention called a food recycle. IT looks like a modern, clean, you know, dwell magazine kind of kitchen bin. So you just throw in your food scraps and old leftovers and forget about IT.

You don't even have to press a button or turn a dial. IT knows when you add food, and then IT just drives and grants everything while you sleep super efficiently quietly with no smell or anything. And you don't even have to think about IT.

And I can tell you, now that i've lived with me for the last year, I can't imagine how I ever live without IT. IT takes just about anything that comes out of our kitchen, even things you usually can't compose, like meat, cheese and small bones. And IT shrinks IT all down by about eighty percent, turning IT into this stuff that reminds me of dry coffee grounds.

That means we can keep filling IT for a week, like almost a month in our house. And it's completely others. I cannot overstate a month worth of food scraps.

And IT smells like nothing IT sounds like nothing too, just a nice gentle hum, quieter than our dishwasher. And since were also recycling, we end up generating almost zero garbage. And the garbage we do have doesn't smell league.

It's just random stuff now like bread ties and battery packaging. okay. So the big question, where does all the dry ground food go? Do you have a totally dial compost and garden situation at home?

If that's you, great meal will work for you. It'll just make everything cleaner and easier. But if you live in an apartment or you don't have the time for composing in your life, mill also has you covered too.

They'll have your grounds picked up and send back to regenerate farms to actually create more food. You've ttl love that virtuous cycle and is something no one else is doing. Every time mill receives my grounds, I get this amazing detailed impact report that tells me how much food I say from the landfill.

So you can see why i'm so excited about this. They've got this big problem for the planet. And now you've got this effortless solution that reconnect your kitchen back to the farms that grow your food.

Like I said, i'm so into mill that i've actually become an investor because it's one of those rare inventions that makes my life Better and stands a chance of making the world little Better too. So I want to be a part of getting the word out about the food waste problem and what we can do about IT. You can check IT out at mile dot com flash wiser.

Anyhow, thanks for listing ing. Me go on and on about what I think is the smartest possible solution to the them as possible problem. And now back to White and me.

So you worked at the White house. Yeah and you worked on nuclear policy, correct? right? yes. And um what struck me first of that extraordinary that this is your story in and of itself. But I was thinking about science and the overlap of science and cooking.

Yeah, i'm totally aware of IT, right? It's not an accident. exactly.

It's not an accident.

I think that if if you enjoy science, cking is really is another kind of science. yeah. And I always think that if you work in science, end up with nuclear energy, you end up with siberia, or whatever, whatever IT is in cooking, end up with a chocolate cake. So chocolate day present.

yeah.

So I think that they are very related. And the way I test a recipe is absolutely scientific. I'll i'll make a recipe once and i'll analyze what the result is and then i'll change wanted two things about IT and then make IT again and then change one two things about IT, make IT again. And it's a very scientific process for me .

and you're taking notes along the way, obviously, right?

Yeah, I take notes along the way, and I start out, I think, the way you often do in science with hypothesis of what I wanted to be, I if i'm doing a chocolate cake for, I want to know, I know what texture. I'm looking forward to flavor. I'm looking for what range of flavors like what things I want to have doubled up. And if I don't know where i'm going, i'll never finish. So I have to have something in my head where i'm going and I keep testing IT until I kind of hear that pain that says that's what i'm looking for.

Do recipes come to you? And I mean, like, do you contact them in your head? Are you like improvising a recipe and then you write IT down and you try IT? How does that work?

Not really. I will start with an idea of something that I might have seen in my travels, I might have seen at a restaurant, I might have read in a book. But then i'll read a lot of other people's views on that thing, whatever IT is yeah, if i'm making like an italian to rely to, i've just read a lot about relived to and then i'll put IT all the books away and i'll start cooking wow. So I kind of what my idea of what real leader should be and how I can make a taste Better.

So you're an improviser as well yeah to a certain extent exactly. My husband's brother, jim is a scientist, a very respected scientists that you see, irvine. And I remember he was at our house once, and I was cooking, I was, i'd love to bake, and I was backing, and somebody was in the kitchen with me, and they were measuring out the flower, but they were measuring IT out, but not .

levelling IT off.

levelling IT off, which I said, no, no, no, no, you, you must level IT off. And I was showing how to do IT actually, for all the ingredients, particularly for baking. And I remember looking at my brother in law, Jimmy, and he had such a, what can I say? Respect an alteration in his face. Because he was scientist. He was appreciating the attention .

to the detail.

the detail, yeah, the detail.

I follow recipes exactly, even my own. I measured everything. And then because once you've spent the time to make sure it's absolutely perfect, why do you want to start throwing ingredients in there?

Yeah.

IT was something right. That's right.

especially the Baker. Yeah, especially the Baker. right? Especially talk about entertaining. I mean, did your family entertain growing up?

My dad loved tab parties, so we did. My mother hated IT, hated IT. But IT was my mother that had to give the part.

So IT was always a struggle. IT was always, I mean, SHE did parties because he liked his friends, but I think IT was was never a happy experience. And as soon as I got married, I was like, I remember being in our first house.

There was a garden apartment in north CarOlina. A and I member IT looking around, going, I can do anything I want to do. Now, for the first time, I have nobody criticized me, nobody telling me what to do.

I can do whatever I want, and I just wanted to parties I have. So I just, I just started teaching myself, put a cook. IT was then. I was then, literally, since I got married.

Did you like food before then where you a food lover? Or did that really cannot? really?

no. And I was never left to cook when I was a kid, really. So I really didn't.

I don't think I ever connected with that. I didn't know that IT was something that would be fun to do at all. I mean, I think when I was a kid didn't even I would do anything.

So um I thought, you know I was kind of of the generation when I was in college. I thought, well, i'm going to college and then i'll get married. That's that. IT was Jeffery who was like, who said to me, you need to figure out what to do with your life. He said, unless you do something, you're not going to be happy and I was like, wow, never, never even occurred to me.

Wow, that's incredible. It's amazing. Yes, it's amazing. And you were twenty, right?

I was twenty. Yeah, twenty. So that was really the beginning of trying to figure out out .

what I wanted to do.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I totally credit him with that.

yeah. And when you started to entertain at at a Young age, did you feel the same anxiety that your mom had, or you, or you did, and you overcame IT, or you didn't have IT?

I gave some pretty bad parties in the beginning.

Seriously.

I remember one party in north CarOlina, and I decided to invite everybody for a brunch, which I hate. But yeah, I invited everybody for brunch, and I thought, well, I make an armored for everybody was like, twenty people.

If so, what a Better.

And I don't, you know, now I know how to make an own. It's not easy. I don't know what they held I made when I was twenty and I was in the kitchen in the whole time and course you were like a year to to get over that and and give parties I think my mother was in had anxiety at the people yeah as well as the food I mean, today I have to say i'm not a comfortable cook. I know if I if i'm giving a dinner party and beside myself with and excited, that is going to come out right? Even after all this time.

even after all this time. Are you the same way, i'm afraid. So I I really every time if i'm having people over and i'm cooking a about an hour before i'm trying to come up with a later cancel IT.

that's really great. I had to done that far. But that's no. I totally I mean.

I want out of this. It's like that was found he was fun to set the table desert I made earlier. I love to make dessert. That's okay. But the meal fuck and forget IT.

It's the worst. That's one of the things that I am aware of. One of writing a cookbook is how hard IT is to give IT in a party.

Yeah, hard. It's so much work. It's so difficult and it's so much anxiety for unless you're I don't know, unless you're a restaurant chef, it's so hard. That's why I want the recipe to be really easy. Yes, so you can just put the carrots on a sheet pen, all of all salt, pepper throat in the oven and and hope you remember to take them out.

Yeah, exactly. There's a story in our family. My husband's a grandmother. This was in the deep south, and IT was during the depression, and he was having people over. And they were not, they were not well off.

They were actually, you pretty strapped for a cash back in the day and was a depression. And SHE had people over. And he was sitting at the table, her name was, and her daughter Charlotte brought in the roast and all of a set charley trip and the roast fell onto the ground. And narco brads grandmother, without missing a beat, SHE goes, that's all right, chara. Just pick that up and take IT back and get .

the other one.

There was no other one.

but IT, was this one more shop? Yes, that's really that was a really good catch.

Yeah, SHE was that was a really good impervious moment.

really good impervious moment. good. And you'd like.

you prefer cooking alone. That right? That's what I heard you say. You prefer to be by yourself cooking.

I mean, considering that I do this professionally, I can cook and talk at the same time. Yeah, I do IT on TV and that's okay. But if I if I know IT has to come out perfectly, I mean, jeffrey is always know hanging out and talk to me and like Jeffery, I can talk I just like because i'll forget to do something and especially if I really know the recipe, if it's something I make a lot, i'll always forget an ingredient.

If i'm like focusing on IT, it's like my attention span is that that could so I have to really concentrate to get IT right? yeah. Do you feel .

like you have to do that too? Yes, I mean that I do. I have a brother in law, Patrick, with him. I can cook because we can stand by each other and not talk. But a honestly, I get bothered when people are around me talking or even offering to help and like.

turn off to help. Just get out of my way and it's really inhospitable to say, don't touch IT .

get out of here. Go into your cocktail. I'll be there in a .

minute anyway, it's fine. You know what? At the end of the day, the only thing is really important is save time with your friends completely. I keep trying to remind myself, don't get obsessed about whether something absolutely exactly the way you wanted to be as long as everybody is having a good time and if they feel like we are anxious about IT, it's it's going to rule in the evening. Yes, it's going to rule in the evening.

So we got to get our shit together. That's what you're saying.

So no, on top of being anise about the meal, we have to look like we're not anxious, which makes you more anxious, right, of course. But that will be our little .

secret that our secret you never heard IT for me, never heard IT don't go anywhere. More wisdom from I, A garden after this quick break.

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High quality wardrobe essentials. Go to queen stock com. Flash wiser for free shipping on your order. And three hundred and sixty five day returns that's Q U I N C E dot com slash wiser to get free shipping and three hundred and sixty five day returns queen stock com slash weather. You're known for your your look, your signature style with the button npp shirts and with your beautiful scarves. How would you characterize that .

style comfortable? Yeah, everything goes in the washing machine. I mean, yeah, I just, I love these shirts. I got a shirt from ta bits that I just loved. And I asked if they could make IT for me in different fabrics, and they said, sure.

And so I have them in cordery for the winter, and I have them in denon chAmber in for the summer. And I know I can put IT on and feel comfortable and feel like IT looks put together. IT does.

IT does. okay? yeah. IT does. Yes, I have to say it's funny because I went back and I started watching the first season of verification.

An did you really? Yeah oh, god.

And what I so admire about you in your approach and also your look, is that it's classic and it's work. It's worked from the gic o and you stuck to IT. You didn't try to fuss with IT in my view anyway.

And and that speaks to a lot of confidence, I think in you, you have confidence in yourself. Thank you. Do you agree with that?

I mean, I went same confident about everything, but I think professionally, I feel very confident that I know what I want and anything less than that is not okay with me yeah and i've really pushed through a lot of a lot of times where a publisher or a TV producer will disagree with me. And i'm just like, know, this is the way i'm going to do IT and and I feel that way back my close to like i'm sure that they would like me to change my out at all the time. I just that's not who .

I am and where does that? Where does that come from? I know.

I don't know. I would really don't because when I was a kid, I was always criticize for everything. So I think it's just internal.

I just and I have this sense of what I am and that's what I am. And i'm perfectly comfortable with IT. And if you don't like IT, that's okay. Don't not your problem be right.

Exactly right. Maybe IT was like A A really healthy defense.

Maybe IT was, you know yeah we never know whether it's in the DNA or or whether it's developed, but I love to listen everybody's opinion yeah, and then choose what I want to do. And once I ve made that decision, i'm good to go. Are you the same way?

Yeah, I think I am. And I have my group of people that I go to for their take on things.

Oh, I total do yeah .

but when i'm sure about something or I haven't as I would say that my instincts are usually pretty right and and the mistakes i've made in my life have been not following those instinct sometimes, you know.

isn't that interesting, you but I mean, whatever you doing, keep doing IT because you're totally beloved.

Oh god, that's so what I do. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. And I think, well, having a healthy marriage helps.

right IT does you know it's funny. I was I was just telling somebody recently, people think that being in a marriage is confining in some way, but I find it's just the opposite. It's like a big anchor in the, like a stake in the middle of my life. And IT actually gives me more freedom because I know I will always come back to that stake, to that it's solid, it's same supportive, it's positive.

Absolutely brand. I've been married, oh my god, thirty six years now and um you know I could jesus I could never have done any of this without him in my life .

that's too yeah and has your .

head changed over the many decades you've been married?

Well, I think it's different now. Um when we lived in washington, IT was much for traditional I mean, he was the seventies yeah and he worked in the state department work for kiser and and secretaries to advance and I worked in ob, you know, was always expected that I was going to cook dinner. I was kind of roles that we played yes, and i've increasingly dislike those roles.

And and so I think my move to buy, especially food store and how my own business was really breaking out of those roles, I think so there was a little bit of at a time where we had to figure that out. But he just he's so intuitive and so respectful of me and so encouraging me to do what I want to do. That IT wasn't terrible, you know, we worked IT out right, and I think he's freer and unfair. So it's now IT became more of a partnership rather than like traditional rules.

Yes.

there was a time in our life where he was offered to live in tokyo for a year, and I had just signed, at least for a store in his stamp. Tn, and we like, what are we're going to do? And he said, you know what? Let's both do what we want to do, because we can't choose.

If we get to do what I want to do, you'll have resent IT. And if if I don't get to do that and I i've staining campton n then I resent IT. So let's just do IT.

Let's do IT for a while and see if if anybody's happy will make a change. And IT worked at fine. Actually, after a year I wrote to and I said, I said, you know, I think you need to come home because it's not that are miserable.

I'm just fine and I think it's a bad idea. So we worked now. Yeah so you got married .

pretty Young, which was typical bt then, but IT was not typical. And really, I think was a very old move as a woman, in particular as a working woman in the seventies, to make the decision to not have kids.

No, IT wasn't an structure at all. I had no interest in having children. none. I just, I ve had a terrible childhood, and I was nothing I wanted to recreate. I think now, looking back, I I might say I see my friends with their children, and I understand what I could be. Yes, but when I was twenty out, I didn't want of anything to do with that.

And jeffrey felt the same way.

I think Cherry would have been great parents. He would have really loved having children, but he wanted me to be happy. And IT was okay with him.

Nowadays, to opt not to have kids. IT feels more sort of almost Normal. But back then, I would think .

then IT wasn't IT .

then IT wasn't. And there you are being sure of yourself.

So yeah, I don't know where that came from. I really don't. But I just I don't know where that certainty came from, but I was really sure of that.

But it's the same certainty that you were referring to earlier.

I think maybe because when I was a kid, I didn't have any choices.

Somebody else made all my choices.

Yeah right. So once I had the power, I really used IT. Maybe I mean, that's kind of what you said, which I hadn't thought about. It's probably very true.

Good for you. I love that.

You know, one of the things that happened to me in the past years, few years, i've been working on a member I know you do. And what was interesting to me is the threads through, I never look back the threads that are so consistent. And one of the things is taking risks. And what what you're saying is really true is how sure I was along the way of what I wanted to reach kind of intersection. 嗯， IT gave me a very different view of myself that I had, which was surprising.

What was that characterize that?

IT gave me more confidence about who I am. I was very surprised the consistency of things through my life. And I did. I actually didn't realize IT until I started writing, and IT maybe feel good. I'm so looking .

forward to reading IT. Oh, thank you.

Thank you. I mean, there were things I didn't in my twenty years, and I looked back. I think, my god, I was like jumping off a Cliff.

And I had no no idea what was going to happen. Yeah, but I just kept doing IT over over again. And anyway, so that was surprising that I I started doing IT .

so early yeah right kind of been this person for a long time.

Yeah, really. But wait a minute.

Do you ever do you ever like you get mad? Do you lose your temper? What pieces you .

are pissed me on pass of aggressive people. Number one, on my list, people who tell you something so that you don't have the opportunity to to change IT people that like you basically so that you do what they want you to do, that really makes me mad.

Excise all those people from your life.

That's my yeah right. exactly.

Yes, exactly.

I think it's one of the things that you get to do when you're older is that when you're Young, you think your relationships are going to go on forever. And as you get older you realize sometimes they don't sometimes you have to choose um your your own um happiness. And as you said, exercise people that are hurting you.

嗯， have you had to do that or what?

Not a lot, but i've had to do IT .

IT was painful, uh, because.

you know I just I hate hurting people, but if it's a relationship that is damaging at some point, you know you try and fix IT, you try and fix IT again, you try and fix IT again and sometimes you just can't. And so you have to move on.

Yes, that's the benefit of getting older really IT is it's a huge benefit.

You just have to say this isn't working right. This is making me unhappy, and I don't deserve to be unhappy.

So get the fuck out of my house.

exactly. yeah. yeah.

What draws you to other people?

I think I like positive energy. I like people who are doing interesting things that are in that really show up. They don't come and expect to be entertained.

yeah. Do people do that with you? Do they train, tell you things that are funny to make you laugh?

They assume i'm GTA be funny and i'm not a big let's not like i'm a big joke teller. And sometimes i'm very quiet because I um just because sometimes I am i'm just watching yeah the listening your observing observing and I think and then sometimes people think i'm being funny when i'm not trying to be funny. Do you know I mean you to do yeah .

and because they expected .

they expect IT so um a certain gesture whatever it's I did I didn't mean that to be funny, but i'll take the left .

well also because you play very humor characters yeah you play them so brilliantly they forget that that is a character playing. It's not necessarily Julia oh my god.

yes. And they also, I think, particularly with television. Well, now everything is, I mean, who knows with with computer, I should say I know everybody's watching IT on all these other devices, but you know you're in their home yeah I mean, you have that same experience with your show, no doubt yeah in their home. So you they feel relaxed with your presence and .

they feel like your friend, correct.

which can be lovely. There is a downside to IT, though. I was one time, I was when I was giving birth to my first son. And this is kind of a growth story, but we can cut IT out if it's too .

repulsive way.

And I I was giving birth and I and you know when when you're in labor, they put that monitor around your tummy. Yeah and I was in the bathroom and I was naked and I had the thing around my tummy. I was and I was massive, by the way, and I gained like, you know, fifty pounds when I was pregnant.

And and I was standing there and my water broke. And all the sudden a nurse came into the room and I went, my water broke. I'm okay reminding you naked. And he goes, Elaine.

oh my god. IT was IT was so. Me.

ale, this is that crazy. I know, I know. How do you make friends as you get older? Is that an easy thing to do for you? Ah what is the key of to meet new people? I guess you probably do in your line of work, do you?

You know, I think one of the things as we get older, Jeffery and I very conscious of we're gona lose friends and they're gone to move to florida test and wherever they move and and it's important to stay connected to people. So we actually make an effort to to meet new people, just to make sure that we have A, A, A group of friends that we really care about.

Do you travel with friends?

Yeah, we do. We actually spend a lot of time of paris. So people come to paris with us.

which is just have in, yeah.

so maybe one of these shoes, and I should go to paris together. We've a good time. Got the, and get chicken and carrots and cook in my paris kitchen.

exactly. That would be very good.

really fun.

Do you speak french .

badly enough so I can converse with the grocer and and the butcher? Yeah, yeah, I can get around.

That's good. I wouldn't .

want to dress you in right?

exactly. I um I had the opportunity to meet president micro last year. I was at the thing at the White house, did you? Yeah because my grandfather, uh, was french and flew for the free french during the the war.

He was a part of the resistance. And so I went over to micro. I said something french, well, like you badly that the first sensor two sounds like I know what i'm talking about. And the problem with that, of course, is that then they assume .

you understand the answer.

yeah. So micro starts with the consent to me, but I just can check in my head. So anyway, I.

Know that feeling? Yeah, what started because you don't know.

totally, completely.

Oh my god, my french has gotten me a lot of trouble along the way. Actually, when we first have this apartment, I went to the hair dresser and SHE said in french, which I understood, which you like, IT straight or curly. And I thought, oh, what the health? It's paris.

Let's make IT curly. So SHE gave me this clearly hair dub. And and I wanted to say to her, when my husband seize me, he's going to say, kiss me, quit before my wife gets here. So I said, did more the best we have asked my family arrive. And SHE looked at me in her absolute heart, and I had no idea what I had said.

So that night I, when I was some friends who speak perfect french, and I told them when I said, and he started to live, and he said, and best is a kiss, but best say is something else entirely. And what you save was my husband is going to say, fat me quick before my wife gets. I never went back to that hair dressing.

So SHE thought you a brassy day. I like IT. I mean, actually it's sort of a bet.

It's almost a Better expression, fucked me quick. That's great. I I love and i'm going to remember that .

so good french get you in .

trouble yeah I guess so right. That's really that's really good. Um we have this thing at the N I asked you a bunch of like quick questions and you can choose to answer them or not, whatever you feel like to be.

Okay.

i'm ready. Yeah, you're ready. Something you go back and tell yourself at twenty one.

don't worry about, my god, a Cliff. It'll be fine. Yeah, it's the only way you get anywhere.

Keep jump in.

Keep jumping. Keep jumping. Is there .

something you go back and say yes too?

No, I think i've done everything I wanted to do.

You said all the uses that needed to be sad?

No.

I think so. This is good. I know.

can think of anything I said no to that I wh, i'd said yes to no.

Is there is something you want to tell me about aging? I mean, not that we're that far apart in age, but is there something you would is there some little little bit that could tell me about aging?

Go for a walk twice a week and to be good for you.

good. I'd like that.

I think small changes over one period time makes a difference. What you mean small changes. You don't have to run a marathon. I think if you just take a walk twice a week, yeah.

you'll be Better off. Yeah, right. What are you looking .

forward to going to paris? Yeah, actually, Jeffery, I decided, what are we waiting for? And we book two trips that we've never done before, which ones we're garded the arctic and we're going to going, i've got a safari, but not gone out out into the, you know in with the animals. So we book to safari so that can be fun.

That'll be amazing. That's a that's a life change. I've been i've done that and .

it's what did you see kind .

of everything everything .

yeah .

and I do remember though, at the time being having kids, we went when our kids were Younger, I went to say they were like maybe eight and thirteen. And we went in our first night there and we're out in the in the planes there and we were actually intense. And our leader guy was saying, okay, now a couple of rules around camp.

There is no running. Nobody can run. And I thought to myself, oh my god, what have we done? I, two reductio boys, and I have to know for the next two weeks they've ve got to sit the hell down. I thought they're pry. These kids are.

pray. No, yes.

The whole time I was in a panic, I mean, I had a good time, but I was still, I was like, on the edge of my seat the whole time. Well, this has been such a treat to um talk with you and .

for me too thank you so much.

I'm such an admire of yours and .

and I have yours. Thank you and I hope to see you soon.

Me too. thanks. Thank you. Okay, time to get my mom and this zoom call. I got to tell her about this conversation. Hi mom, I really, I just spoke with ana garden.

a huge treat and a treasure to have time with her.

I know, I know.

Why is he called the big foot contested?

Because he works in the White house and he was riding nuclear policy during the Carter administration. And her husband, Jeffery, was also, I believe, in government in any way at at a certain point, SHE became uninterested in that work, and SHE needed something to do. And jeffrey said, you need to find something to do.

That's fun. And so he found this store in the hamptons of food speciality store called the bear ford conTessa. And IT was for sale, and SHE bought IT.

SHE bought IT. Oh my god, I thought because it's such a great name, I know. And you might think, oh my god, this woman is, you know he said she's account but but on the other end, he doesn't at mean she's not all like a royal, you know?

SHE no not at all except SHE has um there is something about her that's quite, I think reified in terms of her approach to food and making IT accessible for everybody a that is unusual what she's done, but something I found reilly resting mommy, is that he got married when he was twenty. She's been very for fifty five years. And SHE made a decision when he got married that he was not going to have kids.

And this was based on the fact that he had a very difficult childhood. SHE did not have a lot of joy as a child, SHE didn't have much agency, and SHE couldn't really make decisions for herself. And so SHE made the choice not to have kids, which really strikes me as um something to remark on because nowadays to make that decision is one thing but to make that decision in the late sixties, early seventies is extraordinary, right? Yeah, I mean, like for you, mom, but in the period of time when you were having kids, did you ever occur to you not to have kids?

Never, never. It's almost like, did the sun come up you had kids? I mean, I was just like that. I mean, never occurred to me.

But I remember one couple that we knew who didn't have children and what they did, they got into rose gardening. And so they a tremendous amount time on the rose garden and studying roses and and all kinds of things. So they they piled themselves into the world in a certain way. And I always thought to myself, that's that's their compensation. And actually when you girls all left home, that when I started really gardening with a passion, and I can thinking that is a there is something maternal in in the nurturing and the nature, uh, that is a compensation for having children to take care of.

嗯嗯， but for her.

SHE found a way to to be a mother through food and through nurturing the world. And it's that's A A great gift, right? right? Yeah.

yeah. It's exciting to know where she's came from and how she's taken what was a hardship and turned IT into an enormous strength. Hey speaking recipe, there's one food that inner garden hates in its .

sooner o some people hate sondra and me I would say, like I twelve percent of amErica hates soon's o explain that to me.

You explain to me where you ve got that .

statistics from. Well made IT up. But you know what? What I think about that is that that, you know, you have to check with people about someone to because some people hate IT.

Yeah, that's right. And he says that if there's even a tiny leaf, IT really, really bothers her. And I personally cannot get enough.

so antro same, same for me. But people absolutely say I can't eat IT.

When we have anna and jeffrey over, we won't be making things with cilantro.

We will pretend that exist.

Oh, well, wait him in to actually we just looked this up and there's actually a genetic reason that some people think cilantro taste like soap. These particular people have a variation in a group of, we just look this up, all factory receptor genes that allows them to strongly perceive the soap. I flavored aldi des in cilantro leaves, so I am must have that gene and IT turns out, mom, that is present about forty to fourteen percent of the U.

S. population. So you're made up bullshit statistic was spot on. okay?

And I come up with twelve percent. That's sister.

I don't know. You pulled that out. Your ask. You are right. OK, okay.

love you, honey. Love you.

mommy, i'll see you tomorrow.

OK, we are exactly public safety.

goodbye. Love you.

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We're on instagram and tiktok at wise than me, and we're on facebook at ways than me podcast wider than me as a production of lemon auto media created and hosted by me. Julia li drives this show is produced by crisp, William, alex michelin and oho pest. Brad hall is a consulting producer, Rachel neel is VP of new content, and our S B.

P of weekly content and production is Steve Nelson. Executive producers are polar cap, soph, anie, whittles wax, Jessica coder, cramer and me. The show is mixed by john y.

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