Julia Gets Wise with Catherine O’Hara
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Hey, listeners, it's me. Julia were back for season three of wise than me. We've got so much more wisdom to share from the legendary old ladies featured this season. You know, somebody of our guests have written memories, reflecting on their experiences and by putting IT all into writing, they've uncovered a Better understanding of what truly matters. Jane funda calls IT a life for you and wisely says, to know where you wanted go, you first have to understand where you've been so brilliant, right?

That's why we've created a special wise, the mean notebook so you can kick start your own wife for you and write down some of the nuggets of wisdom these women share in each new episode. We just added these groovy hard cover notebooks to our merch shop to buy yours head over to, rather than me, a shop that come today. lemonade.

So in my career, i've done mostly comedy, and my fondest memories are working with other actors to perfect a bit to like minor moment for the most comedy possible. Honestly, I don't think about kudos or awards reviews or pay checks or anything like that. And it's actually not even the laugh.

It's rehearsing to get the laugh. There's a scene in a whip episode, for example, when i'm telling tony hell, who plays gary, that the president is resigning. So my character, selena mayer, the whip, is gonna become president.

And we're in a bathroom, a dingy bathroom, and in the scene we're kind of laughing and crying, and then he gets a bloody nose. And oh my god, we worked on that scene forever. IT was exhAusting, but over and over and over looking for like little things we could bring to the scene, you know, like things that, in fact, pull out of a bag within the scene.

I'm pulling stuff out of a bag. And when I watch IT, now that's what I remember, the work, the joyful teamwork that tony I did in rehearsal. And while shooting, you know, not not the laughs per say, but but when .

you .

don't get the laugh. Fs, oh my goodness. You certainly do remember that when I was just getting started, I was part of the practical theater re company in chicago and our show, which was called the practical theatre companies golden fifty fifth anniversary jubilee um which was a joke, of course, because the company was knew I hadn't been around very long.

IT was a giant hit and i'd never been in a giant hit before. And IT was incredibly exciting. We were the toast of the town. The show was selling out, and the leafs we were getting were incredible. IT was the combination of a huge amount of work and enjoy exactly I was just talking about.

So the producers of S, N, L came to see the show, and they loved IT, and they hired all of us to come to new york and be a part of us. L saray. Night live.

Of course, we go to new york. And the S N L. Producers really wanted the current cast and writers to see what they had seen in chicago. So they rented this very cool off broadway house and they brought in a big enthusiastic audience and they had us recreate the whole hit show, oh, wait a minute, sorry.

No, they didn't do that at all ah they had us for complete and total unknown perform the first act of the show, oh my god in the essene office under fu resent lights in the middle of the day in front of twenty very cynical, unfriendly essene cast members and writers who already hated us because a bunch of their best friends had just been fired to make room for us okay, we never had a chance. Sketches that he killed in chicago died a terrible, terrible death that day. IT was excruciating.

And that's when I learned what a flop sweat really is. I mean, I can feel IT now as i'm recounting this, and I think that humiliation influences our whole essene experience for the next couple of years to die. The truth, I mean, if I could do IT all over again, well, I can't do IT all over again, can I? I mean, you live, you learn in whatever.

I've learned a lot since that crane day in a carpeted office on the seventeen th floor of thirty rock ah but one of the most enduring lessons that I have learned on wider than me is that there are so many ways to move forward confidently and positively even in the face of great chAllenges. And IT reminds me of one of my favorite improve lessons, yes. And that is the great violence bol's first rule of improve, you always say yes and in an improve.

So like, for example, if somebody comes into a scene and says, hi, i'm an astronaut, don't say no, you're not an astronaut, say yes. And i'm so looking forward to hearing your astronaut poetry tonight or whatever. yes.

And that is so applicable to life off the stage as well as honor. You know, really, honestly, all of life is really a great big improve in the end, your relationship, work situations. And I mean, it's all about collaborating and paying attention and accepting what others bring to the party and building on that and of course, making big choices.

It's not just a great thing. And paradoxically, another great thing i've learned from the women on this show is that no is a complete sentence. Weird how that too is, in the end, a positive, empowering kind of truth.

Two sides of a wise than me coin. And I have to say, speaking of wise than me, I really, really want you to know how happy I am to have you nice audience people listening to and enjoying these conversations, saying yes and to our show. I'm so grateful I really am.

So thank you, dear listeners, ers. And yes. And right back at cha real, how I propose that today we are talking to the in improved queen caffeine, oh, hara.

I'm Julia li, drive us and this is wiser than me, the podcast where I get school LED by women who are wiser than me.

There's nothing like improvisation. I'd love IT. In my experience, the best improve sors are pretty much always the best listeners.

That's the key to any great performance, comedy or drama. Listening our guests today is one of the finest listeners in the business. And to me, that means one of the finest actors, cafe o.

Hara and I share similar origin stories. SHE started on stage at second city toronto. I started on stage at second city chicago.

Although was littering company, SHE went on to second city TV. I went on to essl. She's been with her husband thirty six years.

I've been married thirty seven, and we both have two perfect boys. We've known each other for decades through mutual friends, but we've never actually gotten to work together. God demand, and I vought change that cather's T V career took off alongside fellow S C T V comedy legends john Candy, ug e.

Levy, j. Flury, anta marton, dave Thomas and herold dreams. This was pretty much the exact same time that sl was exploding here in the states.

S C T V, Frankly, was only sort of the cool canadian step sister to sea night live. IT was weirder. IT was deeper, hipper, for shore, more daring.

And for me, the heart of the show was always cafe o. hera. She's not just funny. She's fearless, and that's an absolute joy to watch. SHE followed up S, C, T, V, working on tons of TV shows, often with her S C T V pills, and even doubled in fancy director land with marty score, says y and after hours, and then came home alone. And just like that, he was the blocker buster mom, which I we watched last night.

By the way, IT holds up completely and then Crystal, her gas, started to make his improved SE movies, starting with waiting for government and best in show. And she's basically stolen every scene and every one of them. And I haven't even mentioned her emmy award winning turn on shit creek.

And i'm not going to go through every credit and every award because holly crap cafe o hara likes to work, but you get the idea she's unbelievably funny. Truth is, if you're watching something and Catherine eric comes onto the screen, you just know that every time she's gonna score, every time fellow S. T.

V. Elon marty shorts set of Catherine SHE is one of the most loyal, wise human beings i've ever known, which of course, makes her perfect for our little podcast here. I couldn't be more excited to welcome to the show, an actor, mother, comedy legend and woman who is truly wise with in me the exquisite cathal hara. Hi Cathy.

Oh my lord. A that's too much. Thank you too much.

Oh, it's not too much. It's over now, right? yeah.

So over. That's the end of the podcast. cation. Thank you. Thank you so much for joining.

I love that. I love here at all those nice things. Yeah oye yeah.

they're true. So what are you comfortable if I ask your real age, if you tell yours, yeah, I will.

I'm seventy. I'm sixty three, you baby.

I know i'm just.

we think you are a dear.

a little thing. And how old do you feel? really?

How old do you feel? I don't know. Well.

I feel what I am. I don't know. Who knows what anything supposed to feel like?

Yeah, I know. But when you hit seventy, yeah, which is a big marker, did you think, like love, this isn't what I thought seventy feels like nearly. Reason I said that is because that was true for me when I hit the markers, even starting with thirty hours. Remember, like thirty IT sounded so adult and I was like, I don't feel like that you know well.

that's i'm saying you never really feel like you like you've been told you're supposed to feel or the way you imagine others feel yeah right. I feel I don't want to say Young, but I don't feel old.

Oh, that's a good answer that ah I feel the same. I feel the same.

Yeah why? I just feel like I am lucky to be alive for sure. And I don't know, I don't know what it's supposed to feel like.

What do you think is the best part about being your age though? Is there the best part?

Oh boy, being alive and I don't think of my age. So sometimes i'll be around a bunch of Younger people you know working. Sometimes you work yeah my case you work and you're often the oldest person on set yeah and I don't have to thick of the age, but if I did, I would say we're all the same age even though we're not yeah but where all human beings related, we're all you know on a set were working on a show. We're you know serving the story and having fun and in a working together and then I go in sometimes I think, wow, best maybe the look at me is like some adorable old lady. I say at best no.

I know at best. But it's funny that you say that because as you are saying, i'm thinking, well, yeah, that makes sense because particularly in our business, you're on set with other actors you're playing. It's playful and god willing, it's a playful environment, right? And so that sort of age a drops off in that environment, yes, but i've had the same experience of being uncertain the well with the fuck like I just did this marvel movie. And well, first off, I don't know any of the references anybody's making to the marvel universe number one. But also, like culturally and everybody is my my children's age, like almost everyone unset.

wow. Yeah.

that is funky town. This doesn't have to do with anything at all, but we both both have IT doesn't it's not relieving appropriate pocket cares. We both have pope stories because I heard you ve gotten trouble.

Yes, I heard you ve got in trouble at the vatican and you got yelled at by a priest. Can you talk about that? What happened? What did you do? Eta, what happened?

This is so, is so stupidities. D tell that. But I, anyway, I met my husband. Bow SHE was a production designer on the first speed juice movie. Yes, and tim burton basically made a mask me out.

And because I was gassing to tim that this guy was talking to be every day and never asked me out. And so tim had let me see what I could do. He didn't talk to.

And bob graduate ly asked me out, and they were still married, the goodness. But tim also gave us an amazing winning gift, which was a private tour at the vatican. I was a wedding gift. Yeah, only ten.

Burton would give a present like that. That's amazing.

Somebody had given him the gift, and he'd been blown away. So he passed IT on, which is really wonderful and generous. So this lovely prieto cardinal took us all around the vatican an and he was wild.

He took us everywhere, including, I swear, the pops closet. He took us on the elevator that the pope takes down to the six piers pilato. That mass you took us in this beautiful little museum, private museum, full of, in glass cases, all the gifts given to the vatican, an from all over the world.

wow. Crown and jewelled, I don't know what. And he'd let us open the case and take up cross to pretend to be putting them in my husband's backpack.

We laughed. But when we were where we thought was a pope's closet than another priest came by IT. It's it's our guide.

The guy yelled that not us. Actually, we are part of IT for sure because we're all in their laugh and got IT yeah not a big closet. There was a small closet.

It's just probably the same thing over and over again .

isn't yeah so that mature this there?

What happened is the close to used to wear.

What's your pope story? Yeah.

my pope story is that I get an email from Stephen koba that says the pope wants to meet a bunch of people in. Are you available to go? So the first thing I do is I texted because I think maybe this is like he's been hacked or something yeah for real and he said, no no, that he didn't ask for money though no, he didn't ask for money but that could have been in the second email as I was being careful.

Anyway, it's true. The long story short, bunch of us end up at the vatican meeting with the pope, who wanted to have a naked speech about the importance of laughter and comedy and the spirituality of that, and, you know, which is very, very, very nice. I was totally flapper gassed at the pump of IT. And the, yeah, I mean, IT feels very and I don't mean this as disrespectfully as IT might sound, but IT feels very wizard of aussie, you know I mean, we help you with the guys and theyve got you've got their costumes that these what do they called the swiss guard? Come walking in with the strikes and the feather's on top of their head yeah and you expect .

them .

to sing all you you know know you're grading on a pope curve. This pope is is a good guy and ah I but I I highlight grading on a pope curve. I knew that event happened.

and I was very jealous.

You should have been. There is silly that .

you would come on thick. I know. Did you get to speak with him?

I shook his hand.

Wait, picture.

Oh, ship. Where did I put that fuck in picture anyway? What's I shook his hand and I said, god bless you and he said, god d bless you too.

That's great. So that was nice. And then, but the real kicker was David sidera was there, do you know David sidera?

I know.

So we're talking afterwards and David says that he's gonna to the pope store. There's that store in in rome that sells all the pope clothing. And actually I was gonna there too because you can get like good red pope box and stuff and I say, okay, i'm going to go with you and we ended up going to that store together.

And he bought all of these robes, all of these like pressly robes, with the red sashes and all the rest of IT because know well, he likes to dress in customer out. And he said he thought he would wear this to do his work. I'm amazed that that is available yeah i'm amaze. I yeah yeah .

the preparation yes, he wrote about IT .

in the new yorker and i'll send you the the story because he wrote a whole story that going to the pope, it's very good. But there is a joke at the top of IT that I totally at at him with its not my joke but it's incredible and IT goes like this two piece were driving a car together down a highway and they get pulled over by a cop and the cop comes up to the window, rolled in your window and he says, we're looking for two child molesters and the press look at each other and they look back at him they go, you ll do IT no.

no, i'm sorry. I just yourself.

I know, bless yourself. I'm sorry. I'm telling this wonder good cafe c girl. apologies.

No, don't apologize. A good joke is a good joke.

A good joke is a good joke. Yes, speaking of cathos. M, I read your first role was playing the virgin mary and .

unnative vy play.

It's really sad. It's up. It's a staring parts.

No, IT was going to think at the park of the street from our house. Yeah, well.

we have to all start somewhere. What are they going to do? Put you on on stage, on broadway at, well, however old you work. I mean, how how did you do you remember IT?

All I remember, because my mom would break IT up here once in a while, was that I lost her lovely blue .

household of your mom, that you give IT to the custom department, and you lost .

IT baby blue. Yeah, say, that is not acute. Hilarious story, it's .

hilarious.

so sad.

But you know what at this reminds me of when what was I watching that you were doing oh, IT was waiting for government and you and fred, we're doing a scene and you did some ing so brilliant where you were mouthing his lines. Do you remember that? And IT reminded me of watching kids in a school play.

ah yeah.

yeah, right yeah. Because there's always somebody who knows the entire thing backwards and fords. And in fact, I remember once we went to some play at school, my son, Henry, class, I think, and one kid on stage when he didn't have a mine, he would turn and start to talk to his friends who were watching in the audience.

No, yeah, get no sense of of keeping the thing going. If he didn't have a line, he didn't need to worry about the shot. Isn't that incredible?

Yeah, with work people like that, haven't you actually have if they're not talking, there's nothing going on, right? There's nothing worth seeing completely .

talk about not listening.

I love that.

That's really good. Yes, it's funny.

Much more with cafe o hara after this quick little break, don't go anywhere.

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I know you were long term .

friends with incredible guilt or dinner yeah and you matter when you were Young SHE was dann your .

brother which is .

extraordinary um by the way I had when I was growing up I had a picture of her on the bullets ham board of my teenage bedroom .

just as an F Y I did you hate IT did you ever get to matter?

No all sorry. I know what had been close to her. Teach you.

Well now that I think of that, I think he was just a great example of doing her work and being so lovely and talented in hilarious and also being just a lovely person, just being a kind there was no yeah that that was IT was two two different words. But that was also just one beautiful person that he was that was just SHE was consistent, consistent like SHE was just herself on stage even though he told the characters and totally herself not explaining IT right.

What are you doing? Are you like?

Are you asking ChatGPT where?

No.

for help because you looked .

away like you're going on to like a computer to look up something nice to say about guilder .

radner been great. Nice thoughts on gila h. wade. I have these memorized.

I thought.

what? No one. Then when I got in second city, I got him because he left. I was understudied to her and rose, my red Cliff, the other woman in the cast at the time yeah and guilt win on to do national lampon, which LED to her during the day, night, night, night.

No, I D so I only knew for that period, but I really can honestly say I wouldn't know anything about acting or improper comedy. I don't think without watching her or have all the opportunities. No, without knowing her at all, just really imitated her when I understudied her.

All of this was trying to imitate her before I can develop my own characters. I got out of high school. I shall have been admit that I didn't go to coach. I'd like to go second university of comedy.

Why can't you .

about going forever? Yeah, to my kids anyway. yeah. Now I got on a high school.

He was in our lives, and then he went to sea city. And i've followed her there and got to understudy. I wouldn't have known about any of that. I wouldn't I didn't you know this is printery t and i'm so glad I got to have this experience for internet yeah and to be that blindly a optimistic um about thinking, hey, why not just try this like there's no one else in the world looks at these few people in toronto who are trying to do this so why can I try IT too?

That's kind of incredible so you didn't have any feeling of well, I mean, of course, if you're trying something you could fail miserably, but you have to be willing to take that risk. And then you and if IT does, then you do IT again and you try something else.

And hopefully he doesn't fail, right? And how great, but how great to be able to fail, you have to be able to fail to not have strangers watch and commenting.

Well, yes, that's the internet.

I feel bad. I feel bad for people starting out now because IT just takes away your ability to take risks.

to take three things. Yes, your sense of confidence, your sense of abandon, abandon and to have .

and when you're starting out to have to lock into something so quickly, instead of trying, you know, thousand different things, why not? Why not? Either you can I don't think you can have that same experimental if you are sending IT out to the world.

So you felt that experimenting, doing second city, you fact felt that abandoned there for sure, right?

Oh, I don't. I didn't even think about that was the way that was that that isn't that wait was when you got in.

but I was in the two. Well, well, let me be clear. I was in the tour company, so we were only doing other people's material.

right? right?

IT was obviously very male centric, but everything is IT seems yeah we can forget IT into that. But there are, uh, IT was not a particularly my group was not a particular happy group of people, and there are a lot of drugs and there is a lot of drinking.

Ww, and what year was that when you .

got in d eighty one in that area? However, I have the experience that you are talking about doing a theater with another theatre group, practical theatre group, which is in chicago. And that was my husband's theater group, then boyfriend or not, even actually, anyway, whatever.

And so but I have that feeling of, like, wait, this might be funny. Let's try this. Let's see if that no IT was like a playful thing without inhibition, which is a really like a gift. The gift of all gifts.

right, isn't at the best. And what a great age. I often said this, what a great age to be in an on sample.

Because you, you in your early twenty years, yes, it's great age to be at. Because you look at the world, you just think you know more than everyone else. And you look at the world, you say, if I had that power, I would do that Better. If I had that job, I would do that Better.

I you know I you just have a great natural cock inss at that age um and at your oblivious really that's why and that's what I would miss for people about the internet that you could be a oblivious and just think i'm gonna try this why not me and it's such a good um but you're not really don't really have IT together so you surround yourself, if you're lucky, with really good times of people who are all kind of at the same stage, right like nervy, cocky but with talent. So you you're lifting each other up, chAllenging each other but such a great mix of great confidence and oh my god, to Carry or i'm following you. Give me up to work with here yeah.

it's great confidence .

and it's a team sport yeah hey.

caffeine, do you remember any of the improved games you used to play back then?

There was one joe flair he had us do when I first cut in the castle. Maybe i'll still understand that I got to hang out with all of them rehearsal. And joe had play a game where you had to do and to imitate a stand up comic at the time, but you had to do IT instantly, like improvising provides a standard back.

But you didn't have to have the joke. You just have to have the hythloday, the dogs. So, uh, I don't know they would give us a name, but they would definitely give us a topic. And at the time there was this comic tody fields who would be on top. Yes, you don't remember.

Course I do.

I remember I have made my family this at the cottage. Everybody was so good at IT. Oh my lord, they were also good at. I was not particularly good at, but I do remember what I did.

What did you do? I tried to do tty fields and I said, like, I bet to fell that I asked if we could go out. I said, how did you go friday and don busy I said, how about you go out saturday? No, how about you go out? Will be sunday? No, i'm busy.

I can get a date. There's like, no joke. The rythm of a choice. I didn't even do that right now.

You did. It's perfect. This is such a good game. This is such a good game.

We gave my nephew roller skating and George garland, and he used to mike so beautifully about swish. What if you like? Where you going? You know all that. Like my sister, her naive was scabies, scabies, lice or something. He was like, you know, a heady kind of comic, you know, with her no pad, just kind of what's on my mind right now that would be really easy about IT. This is new comedy.

sort of like to remember even right?

Yes, yes. Love them.

It's a big world I want .

to painted .

right .

open twenty four hours. A doctor, the door was closed. A doctor, more.

I came the door six, twenty four hours, not a roll. Um you still sorry, i'd to ask your question, please. Yes, sure.

You still draw on everything you learn at second city. Oh, maybe not. Maybe more. Your other company.

practical theatre company.

Yeah, yeah, maybe yeah. Do you feel like you draw still on what you learn there?

Yeah, I draw that and I draw, but it's not one specific place. I mean, there's a lot to be said for experience. And I drawing on all of IT, you know for real, I mean, I draw on being live, on sal, performing live, uh, that schedule, which was grueling.

You would go in on a monday, you'd meet whoever is hosting, and then monday on tuesday, writers, actors and after writers would stay up all night. IT was a very sort of drug drive and schedule of, and it's still like that. I don't I don't mean to suggest you're doing drugs, but driven by late night party, but at any way, everybody staying up late, riding sketches, writing sketches.

And then wednesday you would have a table read in which he would read all the sketches. And then after table read a, the producers were decide what's going in the show, and then you would rehear that thursday, friday and then saturday, your life. And so what was the schedule for you guys at S. C, T, V.

we would start writing. A, I guess having a months before shooting, we would just start to continue writing and shooting all along, like i've heard. Sl, you know, a scene doesn't make IT into the shows more than it's dead.

And it's totally we would rework stuff. And over over, we never gave up a good idea that what we thought was a good idea. Wow, that was a whole different.

We never had an audience, so we were just try to make each other laugh. yeah. Was way a thousand times more relaxed. yeah.

Now that we had no sense of anybody watching the show until, you know, years later, people would come dark to us about IT. You know, my dad thought I was just making a big mistake. no.

Oh, he did. why? What did he say? Because he was nervous.

Nervous for me. It's nervous for all of us. There was seven kids intervals for all of us. But what we're going to do with our lives and I said I want to be act and and IT didn't only made sense until people at work said they saw me on nc TV then I was like, all okay, she's safe, it's okay OK but yeah, no, very relaxed.

I hosted saturday, attend night live twice, and was shocked at how many good pieces at that way through didn't make IT to show, yeah, that stuff that I thought was funny accepted wrong taste. Well, I mean, good stuff made IT. But but so much good material that would get laughs and just it's gone then isn't IT it's it's gone.

it's totally dead. I mean, occasionally if something will come back, but um I don't know that that's the culture of the place. But I mean IT stands to reason that good things get lost because you read so many sketches. I mean I mean that goes on for hours and hours. It's a pile you know two feet high of sketches so but you know it's funny because when I went back to host um I i've hosted couple times and IT was hugely IT was like going back to high school and getting to redo things .

do you know know nice.

Yes I was because I knew how the show worked. I knew what I needed to do to um succeed now on the show and the schedule hadn't changed inside. I was there in the eighties. IT was the exact right. The only thing that was different that was obviously different cars, definitely more female friendly and different producers.

And they wanted to fine material for you to do yes.

as opposed to SHE can be the waitress .

because your coffee, mister gambie and Andrew caster can come in as the lives they come in, as the way stressor they come in, is.

tell me about IT. What about I read that you were when, I guess, was at S. T. V. That you would tell your ideas to dave Thomas in hua pigeon.

Is that sad? Yes, said he wouldn't touch them on my behalf. We would just pitch up if that was a good idea.

Yeah, but you gave .

a permission to do that. Well, was unspoken. I guess I was. And he said he would have further. And if they laugh, he just go along when I go. And sometimes I was that my idea, which is really said, excuse me, that's my idea. Hello.

when I was there, a moment in your life, when you thought i'm not going to do that anymore, i'm GTA pitch IT myself. Do you remember?

No, I don't. I don't remember. I am still scared.

See, this is what I want to talk to about, because I was wondering when I read that, I thought I I was so used to being shut down. Yeah, that was just part of the thing. You know I was I don't know if if I think it's a woman thing, I think it's a woman thing, but anyway.

you're probably right.

I think I am. But let me see, I would say that .

are you looking? Are you looking at?

I'm looking at A I to help me get through this because i'm having what when I let me just keep IT Julia.

say, Julia.

you are one of three women in the k OK, yes. A, I is helping me here, yes, and but there there was. And I still fight IT, a remnant of, for example, when i'm pitching something, you know, whatever, any aspect of a scene or this or that, there is a part of me that has to push through that pitch because a, that's a remnant of from way back then of not being heard.

And I think IT also leaves me with a little defensiveness about my ideas. It's probably not healthy, but I I mean, i'm aware of that as is happening. Do you can to know what .

i'm talking about? Oh yeah, no, I start, I would start most if i'm conscious ous try to be conscious of IT then I try not to do IT but I would start more most ideas with, sorry, this might not work, but what about this? Yeah, ah, sorry.

No, you doing that. But yeah, so sorry, always the sorry, I would do that at a restaurant. So sorry, I could I get more tea please? Yeah, sorry, member, I ask for t in our point. So sorry.

i'm so sorry. I didn't order the hamburger. I'm so sorry. I ordered a salad.

sorry. We, you write, take you back. I'll still pay, but please, sorry.

i'm sorry this. I think i'm sorry. I was standing in line here.

Oh, you wants to go head? Yeah, go head. No, it's fine. No, no, no.

it's fine. I've said sorry. I've said sorry to a key on my, on my ipad or computer if I hit the rug. One, sorry. Oh, 你 在 办？

Well, you might want to get a cat scan after we finish this conversation just the same. It's time for a break, will get more wisdom from cafe o hara in just a moment.

So you talked about when you're doing S, C, T, V. So you are one of two women in .

the cast right now. I know where you're going. And lady.

yeah. So tell me.

That's what's raw with aging. You start seeing things a little too clearly. Yeah that if that men like to go with the Younger women because .

they don't get IT yet, perfect, perfect. That's the problem with aging. You see things a little too clearly. So the fact that you guys were being paid less than your male counterparts, that correct that because really .

only in the last few years that were find out the john Candy also, okay, explain that the two women and john Candy got paid less than everyone. Now john god blesses turned IT around big time, as as the years went on. Yes, he got a, he got a lawyer and he got more than anybody. And good for him.

Well, so maybe IT about you just had shared representation or was that we had no report? So there is the real problem.

These are the days when you didn't need representation.

They just we're not we're onna pay you two hundred dollars a week and you're like.

yes, uh, all that was exactly what I was like for me.

I know I remember and i'm not kidding, of course not kidding. I remember that when I got first higher to do second city, and I was doing, I was in, I was still at school in northwestern in chicago. Yeah and I called my acting teacher and I said, guess what? But his name was bad buyer.

He's passed away and I said, guess what? I just got hard to do second city and he said, how much are they paying you? And I said, yeah he said, that is supposed anything else and I said, oh, I don't know.

I forgot to ask and and then he's laughed at me and made me feel so bad about myself. I mean, he was like, oh god, you're here. He was a real apple move.

But I was a Alice. Like, he wouldn't be able to teach. You wouldn't be able to. You would stop doing classes. Well.

guess what? I kind of IT because .

and that was so yes.

I started doing theater in chicago and I took a lot of past fields and put off semesters and things like that. But anyway, it's all that IT all worked out a talk about when something ends. I know like when the show ends, IT can be so emotional.

And I know that marty short, he threw a party for you and he played a bunch of clips of your time at S. C. T.

V, was so emotional. That's the very sweet of him to have done. That isn't IT why you laughing.

He didn't do IT. Yeah, he did. I think he did IT to torture me out.

He was going to be sweet. Oh, for, well, I was have a party. No, what? IT was a party.

IT was a party at the end of a season, I guess, and I had given my notice here that I was leaving and I was IT was all about my personal life. I swear, my quitting, you know, I got on the high school and got into second city. That was my love, right in second city to s ctv.

Like, I just went long. Like never do with this, ever get paid? amazing. yeah.

Then I finally hit at some point at this, really like, where is my life going? And I need to focus on that other part, like meeting someone or, you know, I think I was raised to think you get married and you have children of god willing no, that's your life. yeah.

So I, so I quit mainly for that reason. So I was really emotional. I didn't want to leave the show, really, I didn't want to quit.

But I thought if I don't focus on, I don't know, I don't not sure smart st thing really made my dad sad because he was so happy if the show was doing well and heard about that at work that was so awful. But yeah, anyway, so yeah, the the world party was a party at the inverse of martial. He put a clip package together my work, like why why he does to be.

That was very reaction. We're going outside the house cry like career I thought, be fun, sorry. Oh.

I say so IT okay. Got IT got him. So when you did work with Chris on all the movies that you work with him on Chris, guess a all that stuff s improvise, although there's an outline correct the way Larry .

David doesn't curb. Yeah, yeah. Is no dialogue, right? No, they would have. They definitely have great running jokes. Yes, of course. You know, like best show, I was in this group that I would run into guys who had the best sex of their lives with me.

I mean, and couldn't be back here.

I want to for all my characters yeah. And Chris, never repeat that. Like for take to take when you are advising all your dialogue like that. And you do, you know, one, two, three takes what everything I came up with, something there just happened.

Now do I repeat IT? Was that cheesy to repeat IT? And ah how can I get that joky? Like, what if that take? Is that used? And you know, maybe it's a sound problem or whatever the shot is.

Like, w we came up with that. Like where where does that cold? Can we don't like to be? You know, there's always that chAllenge in the brain like no open up to, just be open to whatever happens. Just listen, Christmas would never repeat thought between takes .

a really as an actually .

crazy as an improviser just so free thinking, wow. We did .

that on whether we used to IT wasn't necessarily an outline, but very often there would be scenes. And armando in UI, who created the show, yeah, he would. He would say, okay, forget the script.

Just just go and do something. Go, just go try this in rehearsal, but one for fun, whatever. You know, you've got to get to point a, to point b and IT was so much fun to do that of terrifying.

But but as long as you know what point in point beers and then you can if you know parameters, yeah I find what is just open of selves. Hey, when you improve the subjects like what what talking about, right? Do you love your downtime? marry? You work out a lot. Well, you're do the podcast.

So obviously, you love working. You know, I love working. I don't love being away from home. And even now, I mean, my kids are grown.

Let's talk about that. Yeah, you have two sons and sort of way yeah. So you just want to raise them to be lovely partners to somebody just, yes.

you do and are they are your sons partners.

anybody and they they both live with the girlfriends and and they are good guys and and they really love each other.

Do or two get along like that? There's like, yeah thick they's it's that's my biggest um triumphant life actual yeah.

yeah, yeah.

How did you do that working when they were little? How do you figure that out?

I didn't. I really didn't work much. Oh, you didn't work much. No, I didn't. No, and i'd work in town.

Member, the first, the first offer I got to work, they were both. How were they? Probably about five and eight, six and nine.

And I got offered a job in london. And yeah, and there was a six week job. We had a great nani at the time.

He wasn't live in, but choose great, great, great girl. So they came for two weeks. I was over two weeks. They came back for two weeks. You don't got to at school, whatever.

So I said, you know, I ve always heard that with relationships with the couples, two weeks as the limit, you should go longer than that apart unless IT works for both of you I guess. Right saying for kids yeah so that worked at that age. What about you when they were they were little. I mean.

yeah, was doing signal when I had both of them. So with there five years apart, yeah and so with my older son, Henry, I bring him to work. I had a nursery on set, and so he came to work with our nani. And so I go back and forth, Frankly, that was really hard, you know, because there there was always this poll in one direction or the other. And IT was sort of hard to a certain extent to kind of be where you were.

But that's how I did IT.

And then I had, uh, our second time charly just IT was just that last year of time file. So he was just a baby. By then I realized IT was Better for me to leave him at home and go to work and then come back.

But I mean, we were in, we were all in out. So he wasn't like I was on location or anything like that. So Henry had of a memory of me working. He remembers craft service. He was just .

like crazy. They loved this charger. I fell, ripped off because he didn't get to be on the seat all the time.

No, I don't think so. I took a, there's a picture of him on set in the in the sidewalk eld dinner that I have him on the tip. No, he doesn't feel ripped off at all.

But what I was gonna, he said a couple years later, I did go back to work. I was doing A A series, but IT was a single camera series called watching eli. And I was, I had not been gone from home while he was Young.

And so now he was like, four. And he came to set one day. And I was showing them the sets inside the studio.

And one of the sets was a bedroom and and so I was pointing IT all out. And then as he was leaving, he says, mommy, I love your new bedroom. I thought, this child is, i've moved here.

Oh, the gill, the girl.

But, but, but your boys are in. Your boys are in the business. Is that right? Yeah.

the older one the thirty year old's IT was do in sec construction and the Younger one to twenty seven is A A set dresser in vancouver. There's tons of work there, but they're so lucky they have jobs.

They're so lucky they have jobs and both of our boys two are working in this industry. And IT is quite a remarkable thing to witnesses in IT to see them. Yeah, yeah.

But i'm really glad they're artistic. Aren't you glad that your kids are artistically? I mean, because they are. I an obviously, they're creating making things that's cool as shit.

Well, we definitely encouraged that at home.

didn't we? Yeah, we did because it's all we knew. Frankly, I didn't know anything else I can even .

like a set of and I think you're so lucky if you're raise the sense of humor. Why isn't IT the truth? It's a gift.

It's a gift you either get given her. You don't don't know how you get. I don't know how you get IT on your own.

And you know, his friend liberals was on this thing, and we were talking about that and he said, it's a sense of humor IT doesn't mean that you are funny funny but you have a sense of human you you understand what is funny yeah um which is sort of the beginning for me anyway, of all the relationships I have that is top of the list, I mean, you know or aligned with kindness, I think IT has to be there doesn't IT.

Yeah, you and your husband met in comedy, didn't you? Yes, we did. Yeah yeah.

Talk about your husband. bow. And can you tell the story of what you wrote in your journal? Do you still write a journal by the you keep a journal?

No, jo is laughter name for what the far I was writing. You up. Wake up eleven again.

What you do. Yes, published. That's your matter. sad. Well, that's a dead. Give away. Yeah.

you tell me what you wrote.

Lame, lame, lame. But I why this guy? But well, you talk to me every day. Why will you ask me out? We're supposed to get buried.

And did you fall in love with him like straight off the bat?

Kinder, yeah. And once we did go out, that was there was, no, not go. Well, let me.

We've had a couple of break ups, but you've never had to break up with your husband having, no, no. Have you ve gone through if you've got through periods, sure what? Oh, of course.

always. I mean, anybody who says they haven't is that life is lying? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, there's always gonna some conflict, but he's a very nice person. So I mean, he is actually and I get the sense for us too yeah.

it's a good guy and we just we really laugh a lot everyday.

And your parents were married a long time, right?

Yeah, fifty fifty six years. And well, you're on your way. God bless you .

to that wait in IT. And then your parents were married that long, and then they died .

within tenths of .

each other. All my goodness, that must have been brutal. Well.

I was for them. I don't remember being really grateful. Oh, really. Well, I mean, I always was, but especially grateful at my momeby funeral that my mom and dad had given, because my dad went first, and then my month, I ten months later, that they had given us each other because we were all together. They get, you know, there are seven kids, and we're all still going like good.

My oldest brothers is eighty three oh my godness yeah um and they they just seem like the most beautiful gift that they're given us each other to be with yeah um yeah my mom, you know hear a lot about couples you know one dies in the other dyson, I would not have predicted that about my mother who was really vivarium and loved, loved painting and drawing and dressing beautifully and target to everybody on the streets wherever he went. He was friendly with everyone and just, you know, really loved life. And but my poor dada had gone through a lot.

My mom took care of him for years, and I think that really just wore her down physically. So wasn't I don't think that was a typical like, oh, my world, but he's gone. So my world has gone. SHE was, he was physically done.

SHE was done. What did they teach you about marriage? Do you think, in retrospect.

we got a laugh, laughing, making each other laughing is a very sexy thing.

Yes, yeah.

yes, he is. yes.

Has not that? Yeah, that is. yeah.

That is, oh, yeah. I think back on everybody trying to date everybody at second city theatre because we are making each other living thing. Well, we should be together. I'm too funy. I find you funny.

That joke is amazing. I am fucking you, tony, right?

You're funy. I'm gonna you .

totally like my old faster waves.

Say, i'm great to have my way with you.

But a sense of humor for sure I .

agree with that and face face my mom and dad wm devout catholics but uh never forgetting that um the greatest gift is a sense of humor. You so you know very faithful, but definitely with humor when you .

were talking about having all those siblings, did you ever think you would have lots of kids like your parent?

Yes, I did. I really stupidly assumed IT ah why didn't you .

you just if you don't make my asking.

I got married late. I say hh and my body was, every time I had craps, every months, the worst craps, my sisters, that I ve got them really bad. And they would take, they would take two twenty tools, was a coding.

You could get canada. And I, I would never, if I took one, I would hurl nonstop so I could never take anything I D D have to, like, play these mind games to, well, the pain away. But I would take when I had those pains at that. Well, someday of children to love be worth IT. I'll have seven kids of my own.

But no, but yeah, two good ones. That's good.

They're wonderful. Yeah, yeah.

I I often think I wish I .

had one more. You thinking comedy trees, I actually am.

Hi, thank you for giving us so much of your time today. You're really very thank you for us. It's really nice to talk to you.

You will edit IT what you please yeah.

we're going to sound like a million bux by the time we're .

done with this thing. beautiful. I love you. I got you back, baby. Thank .

you. I'm going to ask you a few sort of rapid fire questions.

yeah.

Tell me, is there something you're looking .

forward to see my sons? yes. yeah. Has been a while now.

How like a couple month.

Yeah, yeah.

Is there something you go back until yourself at twenty one.

say, good for you. You nerva little thing.

I like that affirmation. Good for you. Is there something you wish you spent less time on .

in your life, maybe sleeping?

I have never in my entire life heard somebody say they wish the'd spent less nice sleeping OK.

That is.

can I change? You are fucking lucky you've sleep too much.

So I didn't say recently, what is that in my life, in your life, my life? So what you are like, a teenager.

a tear. You would sleep until like two o'clock day afternoon, right?

But I was also horton like us, and sixty and seventeen, and I was just, I would come home from school and just sleep and then my mom and out out yell for dinner and i'd go, no alone. I just want to sleep. And then when I worked at second city theatre, you know, we did the show, and then we've go to one of our houses and stay up all night, coming up with ideas that was so fun, exciting.

I didn't want anything else in my life that was so great um but then I would sleep most of the day got IT. So that's why that maybe I missed some things. The kind is john Candy's wedding for us. I was .

asleep. no.

Why am I admitting you like barbera walters? You're just kidding. Ding everything out of me. I am. You're going to make me cried out any minute.

It's gonna happen here. This will make you cry. Is there is something you want me to know about aging caffeine or shut? I'll say, I guess is there's something you would like .

me to know about to aging caffeine? Let's you find out for .

yourself. I I Cathy.

I want to to I don't want to tainted for you and I don't want to teese you in case it's not as good as what i've getting.

Oh, good, Catherine, you're fantastic.

You are. You're off the good at this. I add red you.

I love you. Thank you. thank. I love you too.

I going to call your mom yeah. Going to call your mom yeah. Who actually going to say you talk .

to a Cathy helper and came back from the dead?

All all right.

there you go. You know, jay funda was on this pg, as he talked about Catherine heern being very, very competitive.

wow. yeah. Guess so.

Oh yes.

That's not a surprise though. Is that really? No, it's not I can't have different ones for chain found and a bunch of women yeah, was being honor the next evening.

And SHE told us about shooting, coming home and how the director and he said there would be no sexy because john voids care ter couldn't feel anything from the way down and SHE said, but I can do you know the scene, I sure do. He serves her. Yeah.

it's the only thing I remember .

from that movie. Yeah, but he had to fight for IT.

IT gives new meaning to the title because that was, remember, because that he was having sex with Bruce. Bruce turn yeah, at the top of the film and it's it's without passion and any yes, then hn hn knew what to do yeah.

because he told him off cover. That's what needed to be done. I love that there was going to be no sex in the movie because the men said the man couldn't feel anything. So why would there be anything? Why would anyone get anything out of the deal?

Yeah wow, I didn't know that. Ah it's funny because it's I mean, that is the only thing I members .

from that movie is .

like that's kind of interesting isn't IT?

yeah. Anyway.

thank you again for being so kind and generous. Thank you. And I give you all my love.

Thank you. And I look forward to seeing you. I hope soon.

I would love that. please. Yes, please. Thank you.

Thank you for your time. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. You too.

Well, that was so much fun. I'm going to get my mom on zoom to tell her all about of this conversation.

Hi, mom, I love how you doing. Hi, I like your vote pin. That's very good.

Thank you. Big news this year. vote.

yeah. vote. Thank you very much. Have you .

voted?

Very nice. So I talk to capital hair today.

Who is a wonder? And I know I admire her so much I don't know how to say I just expecting and admire her so much although mummy I have to chase something I think I offended her start out um I told her you know she's a devout catholic and SHE comes from a large catholic family and the church has a lot of meeting for her and uh, I told her the catholic priest joke that David sadia wrote about in his new yorker piece. Do you have any joke to remember, mom?

Yeah, I was just we read talking last night about the first joke that you ever heard, you know yeah, it's not really. I mean, it's hysterically, but it's not funny really.

What is IT is what what daddy told his grandfather was a minister, uh, and his eighty th birthday his mother drove them across country to oklahoma and deadly times about for at that time he said i've got a joke, his grandfather love joke so he said, oh, tell you, tell 所以 why the ocean war when you were crap on your bottom。 Well, I mean, that's that's the oldest joke in the world. And but every kid, every kid knows IT as there for a joke. I mean, I think that these daddy did. And I remember thinking that was just historical that that joke.

oh, really.

when you are Young, whatever Young yet I me now.

well, let me ask you something. Can you define a kind of thing that makes you laugh?

Uh, it's funny that you say define, because almost if you can define, you do not can laugh at IT, right? The joke, the the funny ss comes from number surprise, but also the the turn, the twist that you didn't expect. Yes, so so so that that is is can define IT no, but sure know when that happens. Yeah.

you sure know when that happens. I mean, I remember when we were little, you and I used to how well chances are I was howling and you were laughing because I was hawing. But we would watch, I think I was super sales. Or was IT captain kangaroo with the .

pingpong balls? Oh yes, oh yes, yes.

But he would do a thing, and ping pong balls would fAllen him unexpectedly. Ly, and three old me, I thought that was the, I mean, he was essentially like a jack in the box or something.

Now, what good joke is so important? Yeah, but who can remember them?

Well, i'm asking you, can you remember a single .

joke all the second? Pose minus gar now？ No, I I can't can't no.

sorry.

no me because I know some funny jokes you do.

I wish you could remember them.

There was one time was telling a joke at somebody y's eighty birthday party yeah and I got up to tell it's it's, it's about the, the, the guide isn't a refrigerator, and the refrigerator ends complicated I to all places. And then remember the end. So I started to laugh so hard.

And I I couldn't, I couldn't even think I laughing so hard. And everybody was howling and nobody ever got the he said to me always what was a joke. I is that i'm good idea.

I got IT and IT was so funny. And if I always people, they would have that. So just, I know jokes are so funny that IT project, but you do get, but they're gonna be someone for now.

But I wish I could know the refrigerator, one with a man and the refrigerator hanging over a balcony.

Oh, it's about, you know, the guy is the serving bed with the wife, not his wife. And and and so then he quite jumps into the fridge, and then somehow the move has come and they take the room. I know it's very .

completely well.

that sounds like a snatch hit, mom, you should take that on the road.

In in the telling is all makes sense.

yes. Well, evidently, evidently that's the case. Yes, the calling, the chilling is the key. The telling is the key.

And amy, alright.

I will listen. I'm really happy this comfortable.

What what is IT? I'm so dying to hear your your interview.

What interview? 我 去 问。

I forgot we were on, we were on, on the, on the park. What is to do? get. Okay, mummy um so long farewell um i'll see you next time.

I see you as as he soon.

Okay.

love you, love you, but.

There is more wise than me with lemonade premium on apple, you can listen to every episode of season three, add free subscribers, also get access to bonus interview excerpts from each episode. Subscribe now by clicking on the wiser than me podcast logo in the apple podcast APP and then hitting the subscribed button.

Make sure you're following whether the me on social media were on instagram and tiktok at wiser than me and we're on facebook at wiser than me podcast wider than me as a production of lemon auto media created and hosted by me. Julie li drives this show is produced by criss peace, jara Williams, alex michelin and oho pest. Brad hall is a consulting producer.

Rachel neil is VP of new content and R, S, V, P of weekly content and production is Steve Nelson. Executive producers are polar cabin, soph, anie, vitals, wax, Jessica kotov, cramer and me. The show is mixed by Johnny vince Evans with engineering help from James barber. And our music was written by Henry hall, who you can also find on spotify or wherever you listen to your music. Special talks to welsh legal and of course, my mother.

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