Julia Gets Wise with Beverly Johnson
58:25 Share

Well, hello, there it's me, Julia li dice. I'm so happy to be back for season three of wiser than me. And to celebrate that, I am so excited to share that we have partnered with lingua franca, a new york city based luxury and sustainable clothing brand, to offer our listeners wiser than me.

Specific and and brother sweaters, sweater, ts and more. I've gotten to hand select each of the items in this curated collection. And i've had so much fun with that along the way, adding a bunch of saying from our podcast to the items.

IT all combines lingua Franks shake yet forel designs with our mission to celebrate the wisdom of older women. So check out our collection by heading over to wither the me shopped up com and clicking on the lingua fra collection. lemonade.

You know, I don't usually play characters who are first and foremost beauties. I mean, you know, a lane, for example, he was cute enough, but there was no requirement of beauty and the character didn't lead with that. And maybe it's a lucky thing too, because I have a semi uncomfortable relationship with my looks.

I mean, well, no, I am not not exactly okay. That's not fair. I'm actually perfectly fine looking how I look.

What I mean is, is that sure? Some days I wish I looked Younger, pretty sexy, but that I know that's like a cultural requirement for women, and that is a different subject, so never mind. D, I like to play characters.

That's what I like when i'm required to be just me. When the focuses my image in front of a camera with no script, no character, that's that's harder for me. I I always felt so inlet ease on the red IT.

For this reason, i'm not exactly complaining. I really am not. I know i'm lucky to be there. This is a good problem to have, but IT doesn't mean I feel comfortable. And the same thing is true at photo shoots too.

I always trying to look like I met ease, but my interior monologue is just is going a mile a minute. And it's basically saying, get me the fuck out of here. I mean, really don't get me wrong.

I do love to get dressed up. I love pretty close, like, I mean, I really love them. I love having my hair and make up done, generally speaking.

You know, assuming IT turns out okay, but the part of walking the carpet or posing on a photographer set has always been a chAllenge for me. Like I, I often fine myself actually holding my breath without realizing that I actually get light headed after remind myself to breathe. I ever really feel quite up to the task.

And I can really obsess on how I look after the fact, which is a bad place for me to go. I have, i've discovered that my resting face is not always good for photos because I look sort of mean, and if I smile, it's usually Better. So sometimes I just smiling like a crazy person up and down the carpet.

Oh god, it's hard, man. This is such a silly thing to complain about, of course, but here's where i'm going. I am amazed at how some people can just command that moment, that moment in front of a photographer's lens when it's really only about you. So I have enormous admiration. I mean, all of the people who can do IT, what a skill that takes a kind of daring and confidence and fearlessness blows me away.

So once I was shooting deep in london, and lady gaga was saying at the same hotel where we were all saying, and a ton of fans were always waiting outside the hotel behind these little barracks at all hours, waiting for her to make an appearance. And every time he came out of the hotel, and this could be, by the way, several times in a day, SHE would be in a completely, totally different outfit every time. And each one was more outrageous than the last.

Like there was one sort of a highty thing with brakes that were wired to stick straight out. And then there was one with the most extravagant giant fathered parasols, and one that was like a hefty bag with these crazy revealing holes in IT. And then one night I was coming in, SHE was coming out, and he was in this kind of a White gown, like a Crystal as or something.

And SHE had barely move her feet. And he goes out in front of all these fans clamoring for her, and SHE just unfold herself and holds her arms out like this, like wings. And the front of her gown becomes a bed sheet of the mona lisa, miss the whole guard.

And painting IT was just so dazzling ly preposterous. If ever worked like that, you would just have to laugh at me. I would laugh at me just thinking about IT that cracks me.

But gaga can do IT because she's got that thing. You know, that total commitment to her persona. She's like, I am fucking gaga and I was gob smacked as they say the U.

K. By her presents, her delivery. SHE owned that space and the real of super, super, super star, super model types.

That's what they can do. They own IT. It's their super power. So sure I can fake IT or parity IT. No problem. I think I could play IT and get a laugh, but I need that distance is not really me so if you see me on the carpet for some awards thing or a gal benefits, smiling away and this is just between you and me, dear listener. It's a performance, but a select few women, they can do IT for real, and fewer still can take that skill, that command and through hard work, brains and yeah beauty, create a career that goes well beyond celebrity and fashion and opens up opportunity for women across the world. And one of those women is with us today, beverly Johnson.

Hi, i'm Julia li. Drive us and this is wiser than me, the podcast where I get schooled by women who are rather than me.

Okay, so imagine you are a super smart, bookish. You're a lane five foot ten. You're an olympic level swimmer with a full ride scholarship to north eastern university.

But you're also so gorgeous that you get the chance to give up the pool and become a supermodel. Would you take IT? Well, that's exactly what happened to our guests today.

And SHE did become a supermodel and convinced her professors to give her college credit for modeling. I told you he was super smart, but when SHE got in front of a camera bomb, SHE became one of the most successful models of all time. And this started in the nine hundred and seventies in new york.

So that means she's queen of the city, you know, hanging out at studio fifty four with halston and Grace Jones and andy war hall, SHE and jackie o were on a first name basis. SHE was living a life. I mean, honestly, I cannot even imagine the glamour.

So how successful was SHE SHE? Did the cover of vogue the first ever black on the cover of the magazine? Do you know just how impacting IT must have been for so many women to finally see themselves on the cover of the most important fashion magazine in the world?

That historic moment marked a turning point in the fashion industry and open doors for models of diverse backgrounds to finally step in. God was about time, and she's done more than five hundred magazine covers since the new york times named her as one of the twentie centuries one hundred most influential people in fashion. SHE has become this powerful symbol for representation in the industry.

So you get the idea this is a true fashion icon, and IT doesn't stop with the modeling. She's also an actress, a business woman, a trailblazer, an important activist, a mother and a grandmother, and a force of nature. And she's clearly wiser than me got. IT is so fabulous to welcome beverly Johnson. Hi, beverly.

hi. Thank you for that introduction.

Oh my god, thank you for wonderful self. So we always start this podcast with some pretty a front questions. Are you comfortable telling .

me your real age? Yes, what is IT you tell me what is your real age? I so much I really know.

I I believe your seventy one beverly is accurate.

Oh, okay, yes, i'll go with that. Okay.

yes. But now listen, how old do you feel?

Oh, gosh, never say. Tell me a teenager.

You are for real.

Yes, teenager.

What explain to me what why are you a teenager at heart? How would you character I said.

well, i'm blushing now. I'm all getting after that introduction. Yes, not like I haven't heard IT before, but it's just something that comes over me that becomes very Young and I even feeling very kind .

of yeah that's nice. And so and so what would you say is the best part about being your age was the best part of that? I know if there is the best part of that.

Oh, it's all good. It's really all wonderful and more in touch with how I feel and how my spiritual or is you know what i'm doing in my going to the parent teacher meeting for my grand I mean, i'm all about other things and so I don't really think about the seventy one if that makes sense.

Yeah IT, does that means you're living life fully? Is what that sounds like to me .

in the moment you're in the moment? Yes, you're a mindful person. Yes, I am. I've always been. I have girlfriends that we were best friends since the day we were born.

This is this data yeah we were talking about in your .

book and and and SHE says you're exactly the same person. I'm like, I don't know if that's a good thing or best thing.

That's a very good thing. I mean, I think I know what you mean though. I mean, you want to have all right as a human being.

right? But I think he was talking about personality. Yeah, he gave me this letter because we pass the letters to each other every single day on the bus, and we live in next each other.

Oh, lucky you and she's a pack, right? And share collected everything beverly Johnson in her added, I mean, like manics in everything I said. This is getting creepy data.

This is going creepy, know? yeah. And i'm not since of mental at all.

So he gave me one of these letters, which I am sorry, SHE did because i've lost IT already. But IT said, hey, he didn't speak to me, but that's okay. I know he likes me. I'm just going to ease this test and and have a great day. I say i'm the same person.

okay? So now that speaks to what I am so struck with about you, beverly. I mean, okay, you seem to meet to be a very driven person.

yes. I mean, from the get go as a student, as an athlete. And you have to driven to be an athlete as a model, as a business woman, as an advocate.

yes. And I I think this drive is also spilled into your ability to stand up to bullies into sexual harassers and to stand up to leaders in the workplace. You know like alien ford and and a winter, or just to name a few.

So where where do you think that that extraordinary drive comes from, beverly? I mean, and has a gotten bigger of stronger, more muscular. Where does, where does this come from in you?

I believe that I was born with the fire in my belly. I I believe I was just born this way, really, because I can't think not being this way. I'm an introvert, a very quiet child, and they used to call me the alien, you know, my brothers and sisters, because I was very methodical. I get the is on my report card next here SHE is she's getting again you know she's are in her clothes for the whole week of school oh.

I see 啊哈 it's just.

you know why am we're .

your parents like that? Well.

they were very methodical in in what they were doing and in life and about us, you know, a children in in the household. So I would say more. My mother, then my dad, my dad, you know, was a steel labor, and my mother was a nurse.

But SHE SHE was a housewife. Before that, I remember her studying because, you know, they weren't, they needed more money. And he was studying these books about becoming a surgical technician well and fascinated books.

And my father was a big reader. So we, all of us kids are very big readers. And I just looked at her and I was like, wow, and was so complicated.

I said, are you going to pass? You said, oh, yeah, i'm going to pass. So I think I got that from her.

H, yeah. You got that from her. Yeah, yeah. And there SHE was, know the woman in your life modeling this example of total excEllence and determination. Yes, yes.

Obviously, you are known for your extraordinary, all of your work, but in particular, the famous american vote cover. I mean, that was not a fluke. That was something that you have been working towards as a Young model. yes. Can you explain what happened then?

So I linford was the most powerful woman in fashion industry, yes. And I was the first woman that I saw that really wheeled power. And I go to the agency just to of her and in the business because i'm learning that's what I do, you know? Yeah I I watch and I watch and I realized that I need that vote covered to be the top model, the world.

And I needed to get you cosmetic tract to a beauty book because this is what i'm learning, right? yes. And so I make an appointment with her I like for and she's very matter of fact, I adore her and she's a bit very big help for defining who I am.

I just want to say that a free OK. But then I said, no, I lean. I'd like to have and where do a beauty book? I want a cosmetic contract, and I want to be on the cover of american vogue and he said, you'll never be on the cover of american fault, and she's a tough lady.

But I was like taking action. Who do you think you are? Clear patcher. And I thought to myself, underneath my breath, I said, that's exactly who I think I am.

Yeah, exactly.

But one thing I know was, as this nineteen year old or twenty year old harper old, I was that I wasn't going to get that covered there.

But let me ask you to me for a second, when he said that to in that moment, did you feel, did SHE make you feel shame at all or not? Was there a glimmer of IT? No, god, I just love this.

I know, know why, but no, no, I didn't feel exham. I analyze the situation and thought, well, i'm not gonna that cover here and you can't leave this woman because i've heard about who leaves in ford. What happens to that model, right? And that's why I decided that I was going to write her note and tell her how her and jury were like parents to me and how much respect I had for the and that, you know, i'm going to another modelling agency but I would hope that if I ever change my mind that they would accept me back.

Okay, you know what? It's like you're playing chess and you're five steps ahead. That's what's happening right now in this story to me anyway, that how strikes me because that is just smart as shit that you did that. And so SHE obviously was not offended, correct? SHE wasn't offended that you left once you read the letter or .

what I have no idea. All I know is that my bookings increased so that people were booking me to find out why I left I land ford and what SHE done.

I don't think that's not the only reason they book you. You had good representation than that.

That will a an agency, right? Mean was an an amazing lady, an incredible woman in person? yes.

And first of all, this SHE had hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of vocoder. I mean, he was a huge fashion model and SHE was a model, any ford. So she's in, and I go in the office.

This is, you see, you know, I go in the office and SHE has a feet up on the table, legs crossed on the table. Yes, and he has a slice of pizza, one hand and a cigarette and the other. nice.

And i'm like, oh, I like this lady. I mean, i'm just like, SHE was just a cool, if ever yeah and that's how our whole relationship started. SHE was just A A really nice woman and and I told what I want and he said, i'll get IT for you.

I'll do IT wow and SHE did wow. But the one thing that I like to say, yes, after I got to cover red, I was, I don't know, maybe six months, maybe eight months, two year, I went IT back time. And four, oh, you did. Oh.

absolutely okay. I wait him and I explain that to me, why i'm so curious because .

she's the biggest money agency in the world.

and that's where I need. So he could get you more gigs, Better gigs.

I could capitalize off the vole cover. I mean, no, I don't know where I got that from, but I learned a lot from her because when SHE saw me SHE, I for said, welcome home, baby.

And did he say, was there any kind of ownership that he had made a mistake thing?

No, no, no. IT was business as usual. IT was business as usual.

They were booking me were they were on top of IT. I was like, I say, I just shot. Yeah, and I knew that he .

was just shot.

Rait.

yeah, right. Well, what about William? A, what was that? Like leaving?

Will lamina the same thing with her?

You wrote another letter, I hope I didn't know.

write a little total in person, is he understood, smart lady SHE understood. And I had gone back and four to her a couple few times. Anyways, I was just making moves how I how I know this to do as nineteen, twenty, twenty one you look live Young lady from buffo, new york. I have no idea.

Yeah, exactly. And you say you're naive. I'm not so sure you're that naive.

I mean, that sounds like you, you, you got intervention. I don't know. Yeah, it's an instinct.

It's an instinct, it's a drive, it's ambition. It's an instinct that's just really strong. But wait a minute. So can we just talk about life in new york? Yes, in the seventies.

oh, my goodness of first of .

you've got so many fabulous stories. I would love to hear every single one of them, but there's one in particular I need to know about. You talk about being at studio, city studio fifty four, one for three days once, but IT was for three days straight.

for three days, for three days.

yes. okay. So could you please walk us through what that was all about because you actually slept there?

why? I really know we were sleeping, but I was there for three days. But what you have to understand is i'm working all the time all over the world, and I don't really get a chance to partake in the nightlife and all that was going on in that error in in seventies or eighties because i'm gone right in the success.

So I take this opportunity to i'm. Go to studio or fifty four and I drive up in a taxi and of course, you know mounds of people like stand enough front yeah and I see a little guy, Steve bell. Now I didn't know that he says come up and is like the party of that.

what party of the sea? Thank you.

And I walk in and I had never experiences anything like that before. A studio or fifty four, just the music and the joy and people walking around and they are underwear. I mean, IT wasn't all out front. You know, there's different layers, and I know me. I have to investigate every part of with some places I shouldn't have gone down to, but I went everywhere instead, fifty four.

And what places you should you not have gone down to downstair.

what happens? I, well, I I just want to see IT was a lot, IT was a lot going on this, just put that way, was like going on down there, things that I had never seen before in person.

Are you talking about sexual?

yes. mean? yes. yes. Everyone's doing that.

Every which way .

essentially was the an education then hostin, Steve bell and all the designers. And you know that that don't really get to see me in a really social setting, just embrace me. And now we have just had really deep conversations you all night, and I don't know, somebody went home with whatever, and then they hate racks of clothing for models or whatever women. We could change there. I mean, I was I was just one of those kind of things.

And you would stay that you would have breakfast and then sort of and then have conversations and then the party would start .

up again and the part start up again.

Ww, don't go anywhere. There's more with beverly Johnson and just a few moments.

This holiday season is right around the corner, so you're probably starting to think about gifts. We found the perfect one. O C S limited edition super glow body said its a must have for everyone on your list, even those who are tough to shop for. This set includes three of ocean's best selling buddy care products, all package in a stunning box that so beautiful you can skip the wrapping.

It's gifting made easy and you can save thirty two percent on the set O C A malabo dot com, plus an additional ten percent off with code wiser inside you'll find O C S full size indara L G body oil rich in anti accidents to soft hern nurse and firm er sin. There's also their brand new ondi A L G body wash, which classes and revitalizes and a travel size hydronic body serum that keeps your skin hydrated for a full twenty four hours and is the perfect way to try out some of O C S. Best products at an incredible value is so luxurious you might want to grab one for yourself two, but don't wait.

This set is limited edition, and once it's gone, it's gone. Give the gift of glow this holiday season with clean, clinically tested skin care from ocean. And right now we have a special discount just for our listeners.

Get ten percent off your first order size wide with code wiser at osa malaya dot com. When the weather turns cooler, it's time to embrace everything. Gose and quiz has just what you need.

From luxurious cashmere to soft land, queens offers high quality essentials at Prices that will shock you. The queens one hundred percent marino wall scarf coat checks all the boxes, soft, warm and so stylish, you'll wonder how you ever live without IT. The attached scarf and delicate and bordering gives IT A B spoke artisan field.

While the oversize fit gives warmth and comfort you can really wrap up in. It's the perfect false staple item for everything you're doing, whether that's the farmers market, brunch with friends or just walking the dog. And where else can you get one hundred percent marino wolf for these Prices? Here's the best part.

Queen cuts out the middleman and works directly with the best factory so you can get a gorgeous high quality wardrobe for a fraction of what you'd pay elsewhere. No, Marcus, no gimmicks, just pure timeless comfort that doesn't break the bank. Get cozy in quince's high quality wardrobe essentials.

Go to queen stock com, flash wiser for free shipping on your order and three hundred and sixty five day returns that's Q U I N C E 点 com flash wiser to get free shipping and three hundred and sixty five day returns queen 点 com slash wiser。 So I am so intrigued about one aspect or the main aspect of that when you got your vote cover, that IT hadn't occurred to you, that you were going to be the first black woman on the cover, and that you you were sort of thrust into this role of role model. yes.

And you know, it's funny because I didn't always thinking about that. I was thinking about my own experience, like when I was on sign filled. And I mean, this really isn't the same thing. Of course. This is, of course, on a much smaller scale.

But I was the only woman on the show, and people would ask me a lot about being the only woman and and a being this sort feminist of character and feminist sort of role model in the world of comedy. And I was like, I don't consider myself that necessarily, even though I may be, but I didn't approach you like that. Can you talk about that?

So this is very similar to your situation, doing your job you love and you didn't really understand the environment that you were Priced and what you stood for. For so many women like myself, you know, working at island where women never worked before. And so so for myself, as I tell people, you know, discrimination isn't out loud. They don't go around say there's been no black people on the cover vote, that people just don't go around announcing things like that hey, i'm a racist that people just don't do that. So I I just kind of hear like little whispers of whatever is, but but I never occur to me that they had never been a black men cover a vogue and actually been .

a sixties little girl I just interpret. So I lean said to you, that's never gonna happen. IT didn't occur to you in that moment that SHE meant because you're black women. No.

I know.

Just okay. Carry on. yes.

So, and kind of hear was good. You know, is the sixties. Now is the seventies. We had overcome all of that, that you, as a Young person, think that you know, racism behind us.

You are over now.

is over now so when I was getting all of these interviews from right around the world, they would say, how does this feel to be the first black model on the cover of vague magazine? Ah oh, they say, yeah, you are.

Do you know what you're doing and and so I was like, holy way, man, I just wouldn't be on the cover because there was a guy IT tough university that nobody I could get any guys you know like and I thought that I could get the guys and party a little and have some fun what not what I signed up for makes some money for my family and and so I was kind of like taking back and um so that push me into a self discovery journey. What's this thing about racist? What is not really? What is this? yes. And I was mad that there had you been a black person on the cover vote magazine. I was like, very upset that that even existed yeah.

of course. I mean, you must have been furious. And it's not like it's easy to be a model anyway, right?

Where the thing is that when you become a model, I mean, like immediate, like like say, I don't know the first job was eighteen or nineteen because I don't really keep up. I knew that the other models were on my heels. So time time is like this in your model, you are waiting for that day when the phone doesn't ring. My god, it's kind like an actor you're waiting for. When is gonna be over?

kinda. yeah.

He was best thing I leave for the every to me, he said ninety nine and nine percent of models leave. The business broke. Don't be one of them.

So I take things like that to heart what you do. I am really are taking acting classes. I started the whole time. I mean, I started reaching out because I didn't know what I wanted to do. So I did everything.

I want you to learn about everything because I didn't really know what was gone to click, went to broken in college at nights. You know, i'd started just preparing for that. And so that happens very early on in in a models life, you're expendable.

And so do you just prepare for IT? And also the whole thing about, you know, your weight and you, because what happens is that you have a talent, right? Your comedian, you have something.

I, I have this. My talent is me, my flesh. You know, me and people play the instrument of their writing, or they, whatever our talent is, us, physically, us, that must .

be a struggle because a lot of weight is put on the physical terr, the exterior. Yeah, if you have to work hard in your life to validate yourself beyond your exterior, I mean, how could you not, to a certain extent, I mean, find your self worth beyond your beauty? No, I always had that.

You always had that. I always had myself worth. And I I knew how to control IT in a sense that, like I tell you Young about, I said, why did you let me tell the know i'd be the big sister? Let me, let me, let me fight your battles right here. I don't want you to go out on a limb on that one.

You know, the people.

H, H, H, yeah. The Young del, sure.

What does that mean? Like you call an agent or you call as such insects for them?

yeah. And I said, this photographer is doing this and that the other, and, you know, to watch out with this guy. But if they did IT, they be blackboard.

Even today.

this is true today.

what the hell beauty is tRicky is IT not it's tRicky.

but but it's power.

That's right. And when you walk into a room, I hope you don't make my asking this. Are you assuming everyone's going to look at you? When you walk in a room.

I make everyone look at me.

You know I think from my point of you, just um I mean, of course, looks are a part of being an actor. But in in the aspect of the business and i'm in fly, well, first of all, it's hard to age for sure. There's no getting around that.

You know I look at my itself today in whatever the the latest thing I did did versus ten years ago. And to see that change on camera is coco bananas. And you really have to work hard to reconcile IT.

But I mean, what's the alternative? Not doing IT. I don't think so.

I mean, I I consider myself a very driven person. I can tell that you are a very driven person. Are you still modeling?

Yes, i've done about twenty covers in the last few years. Oh my. But the whole thing about beauty and asian, maybe what's a difference for me is that it's my business, right? It's my business.

yeah. So I love finding out with a new product. I love finding out with a new machine that they have the new laser that's gona do this and that knew all that stuff fascinates me because that's the business that, I mean.

right? What's your take on plastic surgery?

I love plastic surgery. Black people, we don't crack, but we do key load. So you guys got one bonus over there too. So you made as .

an kyo ID scars is we are talking about.

yes, yes, we can't cut ourselves because this can be a scar. So if you do, you have to do IT. I'm trying to figure that put out out also.

Whoever figures that out, boy, they're going making a lot of money might but IT was. I love all that I love. I love being able to love a long, healthy, beautiful life the way you want to live IT.

You know, people like like grey hair and whatever, you know, some people really do, they treasure the sign of honor, badge of honor, to have wrinkles. I think that's great. But I think there's also people that want to look a certain way and that I think that's great to and .

so then when europe like on a set and you're doing a modeling gig or maybe you're doing a runway and they are Younger women there, is that like do you have to do at a mind game on yourself to sort of keep yourself feeling, I don't know what, confident in those moments? No, because you do not really Better way.

Not at all. You know why? Because I did fashion week couple years ago or two years ago, you know, and blame, I had to train and everything to get ready.

My to walk in seven and shells. You just don't go out down walking around, right? But i'm beverly jobson.

I show up as beverley Johnson. Yeah, I hear that nobody can touch that. Nobody can touch that.

I like that. I like that a lot. I remember when I was on doing my show, sheep and I there was this moment when we were on set and I realized, oh my god, i'm the oldest person on this fucking and show that had even occur red to me and and on the one hand i'm like, i'm the oldest person because i'm very used being sort of the Youngest person anyway, right? But then on the other hand, there is this feeling like, yeah, i'm the oldest person.

I know the most here yes. And and so there's an a pride of ownership of that that is valid and useful, right? yes.

And people are coming on which you say, oh, I really admire your work and and all that you've done and .

and you could take Better come over .

to me exact Better.

right? exactly. We have to take a really quick break. My conversation with beverly Johnson continues and just stupid.

So we talked about this little with your mentorship. You you support women in a multitude ways. And I include in that that you came forward in two thousand and fourteen.

You came forward with your experience with bill cosby. You've said you did this because you wanted to add credibility to the women who had already spoken out about him. Was this an easy decision to make? Or did you bring your hands?

Or, oh my, the recover is defining moment in my life where I became a face. Yes, coming out about bill car si was the other defining moment in my life where I used my voice, I became a voice, and IT was very difficult. I came into, i'm still suffering, but I was very difficult.

Why are you suffering still?

This is something that the magnitude of IT because of who he wants and who he was to the black world, and I knew was going to be polar ized. I know, I know exactly what I was gonna be like. I thought, you know, I knew IT, but I could not not express myself.

I could not let these women that we're telling their stories, because everything, when I know we link, because asn't raved. I got a way without the rape part. He just drug me by the Grace of guy. I know by .

the Grace of god. But let me tell something that is so incredible about this story, about your story .

and who you are, what bunch your names. And he was shocked, yeah, but that's a way of fighting.

You paralyzed him and kept him from physically attacked you, although he'd already attack you by giving you that horrible drug, right? But anyway, I want to say few things. Number one, thank you for speaking out and using your voice and i'm sorry if it's it's still giving you anxiety of any kind but as a woman, I say thank you because that was incredibly IT was critical that you did IT and that someone of your state did IT is remarkable.

And so I stand in all of you. I applaud you for that. And and I thank you for and I know and while understanding how difficult that was, particularly because he was such a figure in the african american community and in our country, I mean, to to everyone.

no, IT was tough, but I was great. I do IT again. And IT was really wonderful to now be able to women up to me and said, you know, I had, I had to meet to moment.

No, because we never talk to each other. Janice dickinson and I were like this. We went all over the world together. We never mentioned IT to each other.

Do you think I would win over there to that man's house if I, somebody had told me, don't go to that man's house. Girl, I would never have gone. Nobody said, is that so important? We felt a long way to go, but we've come a long way.

Oh yeah, for sure. You know, your advocacy is really a common thread throughout your life, standing up for other models in the fashion industry, you know, speaking out against sexual harassers. I know you've also been a big advocate, women's health in particular, by sharing your own story with menopause.

Can you can you talk about that, beverly? Because i'm not sure everybody knows that story. I think it's really worth having .

a conversation about that. It's without my career and interviewed. If you ask me how I am, i'm going to tell you. So don't ask me how I am. I'm going to do you.

I am and good. I want to hear .

that whether was about depression, addiction, whatever, i've always spoken out about this. And so I had this near death experience through mini pause. And a since that, you know, I had have an emergency Operation to have direct to me. And all this and all these things happened that you were Young.

you were like.

forty seven? yes. yeah. And the doctors didn't tell you they were like, oh yeah, that's right. You're in four blow mini poles. Well, thanks for telling me.

I wait a minute. They took, they gave you a history to me. And in advance of that, they didn't tell you this going to cattle. No, nobody gave you.

no. God, no. So the whole thing was, I was, my, my near death experience almost died, right? So I doing this .

because why?

Because why? Because I wanted to carve my history, matic the, I had to tell anybody, whatever. It's like a Normal Operation that women get what was really played down.

So was one old boyfriend and he's only one that shows up at the hospital. I'm going, oh my god, something a lot of pain and the nurse is going like she's not in any pain. You know you don't have any pain when you had.

And sure enough, I was bleeding internally bleeding, and they call the doctor in at midnight. And I had passed that. I saw my father, my father passed away.

I saw my father walking towards me really fast. And i'm happy to see my father. He's going like this.

He's killing me to go back. I think he's like waving, but I see his expression. He's man and I stop and um I wake up. I was and they were like rushing me into the Operating room.

Wow, that is nuts because .

give me right.

That is a nutty story. That is crazy. Y he didn't want you to come to the other side.

Yeah, to the other side.

beverly.

But that's why I started to speak out about IT. I talk to everybody about there's like, uh, too much information. I remote daughter like OK too much difference.

And no, it's not enough information. So if I get on, you know, the open, everything will go. How you doing? Well, I just had a history.

C of me he like, well, we were going down that topic, but I guess we're here now. I is just with something that that's what I did. I spread what I knew and my experiences and you deal with IT basically the rest leave your life.

right? I mean, i'm in manipur as well. And you know, i'm so struck with the obvious reality that women's health as a field of medicine is really focused on further women.

And once you hit para manos, use a or your postmenopausal, there's there's not a lot of information out there and you have to work hard to get the information. And also, women aren't talking enough, in my view, to each other about the very effects of menopause. You know, I mean, can I just say, where are the conversations about vagon, inal dryness? Where are those conversations? And that's a huge issue. You huge, huge like great .

products for that. But anyways.

what is the product I would have to get up and .

go get IT in other room. Well.

now wait a minute. Can we have somebody else sitting in your house because can they get IT and bring IT in? And you can tell us about IT. I mean, not that we're doing an ad for a product, but i'm curious to .

know I would get up and go get free in. And the second, but anyways, I was on the camera and hall show, and I was just really great. The women in audience to everybody was me and whatever. Because you have to advocate for yourself, but you also need an advocate to go with you when you're going to the doctor.

No doubt, no doubt. Yes, particularly if there's a crisis, you always have to have somebody with you, a partner, a best friend of sister, a brother, whatever. Somebody, yes, because you can't necessarily advocate for yourself when you're in crisis.

right? Exactly actually. yeah. And then the whole thing with the with the hormones that you're getting sometimes that can cause cancer and women breast cancer in women, so is the whole IT.

It's really something that has to be spoken about and also tailor to you do you have that breast cancer? Um I mean, you it's so much that we have to do to take care of ourselves, that's right. Knowledge that we need to gain and have an exchange. And this is a great conversation we're having about about my pass.

right? And I think that we have to have these conversations frequently just to make IT less taboo, less sort of secret. You know it's all happening down there. Nobody talk about IT and you it's one thing if you're having a baby. It's another thing if if um you're on the other side of having babies, right yes.

even the side of having babies are so many women that are dying through jobs, particularly black women.

Now I was thinking of that when the nurses were saying to you, oh no, she's fine. She's fine because they are right. I mean, in the medical community IT seems like a black women are simply not listen to um and as a result, you know.

I could die if IT wasn't for this old boyfriend. Water, thank you coming to visit me and then he would. I heard him out their Young nurse. No, he is hurting and and and he saved my life.

Wow, you have allowed to be thankful for there I do. yeah. Um in getting ready for this conversation with you, I learned that new york just pass legislation that requires cosmetology schools to include education about textured hair and so on in their curriculum. Lots like this are just being passed now. And I mean, it's a twenty years and I I can't even begin to imagine what that was like for you in the seven.

Yes, my meter name sums SHE was another .

model at the time, right? Yes.

he is a man at time. SHE was really the most gorgeous woman. And everything he did, I did, he wore her hair pull back.

I wore my hair pulled back. SHE took baby oil mix for a foundation I took. And the SHE did a big company. I did a weak company, and he was so gracious to me, i'll never you get the first day SHE saw me was like the host and show, because I wanted, do ramey shows?

Models like us did not do ramsay .

shows that mean star models did not walk the runway. That was, that was a whole .

other that was found .

upon very well. I was just not found upon. They were the girls that were.

They called them fit models, you know, in their, working with the designs, everything. But I wanted to meet the designers. That's why I wanted to runway shows.

You can do a way, show you cover. No, I I to, I want to meet the desires. That's where I, that nail me seems. And he came over to congratulations on everything that you're doing, your pictures. And lemon, I and then SHE write me to her home and I said, that's i'm gonna with every new model that comes up me.

you're gna pay IT for oh, that's so beautiful. Yeah, that's beautiful. It's funny. I'm going to tell a story on myself and i'm kind of ashamed. But IT speaks to what we were discussing earlier. So when I was working on vab and wonderful suthin, bradshaw was one of our.

Cast members, and they had to have a person come in to do her here and make up a black person come to do her hair, makeup, who was familiar with doing a black man hair and makeup. And I was so stupid and I E that I hadn't occur red to me, that here and makeup people didn't know how to do everybody's here and makeup. And i'm glad that my eyes were open to that, although I embarrassed at my eyes were open to that so late in my career that that this was news .

to me it's understandable.

And me I remember you know working for glammis and um one of the make up artist, I say stone no whatever you know is all in black and he was shaking, he was sweating and I was like, I went over to the editor and I was like, hey, this guy stone, I don't want him with a black town in my eye he said, I know she's, I know, I know I said, what can we do? I you going to have to call somebody else? He says, but who can we call those? Everybody's busy as well.

I happen to know this make about, you think the free right now. I said, I think, I think they might be free. And he said, what you call them and I could give him and make comes down his name.

Joe miles, no longer with joe, came. And here I said, joe got to tell me down. I love people .

in here make up.

You are on the way. And he went on to do makeup for White, black and everyone. But he was one of the first black. Make a bars to get into the magazine world but that's how you had to get them in oh.

wow. Yeah you know your life is just well, it's just extraordinary because it's like advocacy is in the DNA of how you live. Your life is just it's just baked in and your daughter, she's worked in the modeling industry too.

right? Well, so my daughter is quick as a quick story. And you know what a wonderful life.

Nani and and SHE was really smart. And SHE graduated two years early from high school. So he went to sea mona college and SHE.

And then he came home to be, or now they're about seventeen and a half years old. I'm going by yourself, he said by myself, mom, you have to let us do this. And of course, I had all connected.

So they went to model and they were getting really shiny, and we call a lolly pop head where your head is really big. anybody? And i'm like worried to.

And then also, of course, i'm doing a show. SHE calls me up. Mom, guess what? I'm like, you're pregnant.

SHE says, why do you always leave with that? 我 SHE says， uh, I I am, i'm going to be a precise model, as with apply size mod. SHE says, i'm never gonna let anybody tell me how I should look .

ever again oh my god.

And I was like.

wow, look at this strength. Where does that come from? The apple does not fall far from the tree here.

What I was like, what did I do is SHE SHE rebelling that he wanted to be. Is this I an, you know, me, I can is all about me. You know, what did I do to her? That, and I realize.

So he was part of the top ten plus s size models with a grammar. Those women in the industry, I was so proud of her. SHE changed my whole life on my own body perspective.

Oh, I see, that's fascinating. SHE say me. SHE opened up your mind two symptoms .

of who I am and my movie, my motha.

Yes, and alright, because I know that's right, because you struggled with dealing with getting to skinny still to .

this day to stay, still to stay. We didn't drink water because we saw was flattening water. That's sick river. Well, that's when the occupation has IT to be in a model.

That's right. So that's why I ask you mean but you but look, she's found a way to get into IT without that bull should attached to IT.

right? SHE found on the way to expand not only what I did for black people globally, he did for people with Normal weight in the industry globally. He broke her home barriers.

So i'm so proud of her. I like, you know, she's she's my, she's my shero. SHE really? yes.

SHE really is. And SHE should be. yes. I want to ask you a couple of other quick questions. I am going to let you go because you've been so generous with your time. Is there something you go back and tell yourself when you are twenty one.

don't marry him.

That's good advice. That's good advice. Is there something that you wish you would spend less time on beverly in your life? Looking back?

no. But what I would spend more time on would have been my, my family, you know, my sisters, my brothers and you know, and my friends, because I was basically gone about ten, fifteen years. Well, look.

that sounds like you're making up for IT now.

Yeah, i'm an introvert. I will be home like, like right now. This is, this is my, this is what heaven for me. I'm being home and i'm introverted. Yeah so when I go out i'm going out OK i'm going out for a reason .

ahh but now wait in IT all the time like pretend you're just you're gna go the grocery store or you're going to get in your car, I don't know drive to polities class. I don't know whatever you do. Do you are you aware of your beauty and how you present yourself in those moments?

I'm just curious. Yeah absolutely because otherwise stay home. You know i'm the theory of because if if you go out like that, somebody's to recognize and you look a mess, you know. So 是 这样。

i think you need to move into my house and remind me of this. You should see what I look like when I got this is me addressed up talking you right now by the for our listeners. I'm just wearing A T shirt with strips on IT.

That was my dressing I had on a sweat shirt because I want to look cool, like my daughter and my granddaughter to do around the house. And IT was hot. I said, let let me just go get the public john casting mile and created on just so I can talk about myself.

What's the beverly .

Johnson costume? Is makeup in the so shot?

Oh, I think got IT. Well, i'm wearing the .

july li drive is costume.

he's sure. And and I put some mascara on.

Thank you .

very much.

And I in your glasses, I love the little heart.

Oh yeah, thank you. My husband gave me that. Isn't that pretty?

Yeah, it's a luck at. yeah. Thank you very much. Thank you. Can I just i'm gna completely flip the switch and ask you what's the vaginal dryness jail that you .

so I don't even, I don't even know running. Go to get IT for me. Yeah.

i'm going to wait right here.

Oh my god, it's not a jail. Oh god.

whatever the how IT is, just go get IT. okay?

IT is not a harmon and I saw on instagram.

oh my god, I know I use that.

You don't like this.

I do like IT. I thought you had another thing that was good. That's the revery product.

Those who .

love IT, yeah. High rona acid.

Yes.

guys, we have come full circle. What a pleasure. Thank you for talking with me to day and taking so much of your precious time.

Thank you so much.

What a blessing to have met you and spent this time with you.

I think great. Thank you much. I appreciate you.

Wow, how about that? barely. Johnson SHE really is something else.

My god, I can't wait to tell my mom all Better. Conversation must get on zoom. Hi money.

I honey, how are you? I'm good. I just talked to beverly john, the wonderful model.

Oh, wow, oh wow. Well.

well, here we go. Here the headlines. SHE was incredibly open and candid about her life, and I was asking her about being a moral and being beautiful. And SHE said to me, beauty is power, which I thought was a very honest, remarkable thing to say. So now I wanted to ask you, mom, did you have a model .

a little bit on seventh avenue when I first got to new york? Yeah.

you're kidding. yeah. What do you mean on seven? seven?

What does that mean? Well, you know, the seven, seven new models, IT was a serve, a low grade kind of model. What they did was the working out of design so they would work IT out right on your body, and then they would move round and stuff like that. So I I did that for maybe three times.

I see what you mean. And so did you think of yourself as a beautiful person? Did you know you are a beautiful that's put in that way?

Um no, I did not but but I could tell that my looks made a difference when I was some .

place oh like White.

Well, we used I would notice I got looks and I would notice I got a sort of attention before I D said any that you know before I was noted, I said I was noted but I was not did not have that kind of beauty that was you know pristine and and over. But but um I never could quite appreciate when I look at my pictures now when I see myself when I was Younger and I think to myself I didn't ever know I looked that way but maybe that's the .

thing about getting older because I certainly feel that way about myself like I see myself from twenty five years ago. I like, oh my god, I had no idea that I was so hard on myself. Yes, right? And I didn't realize I shouldn't been.

No, that that is very interesting because I thought so responsible for myself somehow. And and I couldn't I couldn't appreciate myself. And I think that that's absolutely true that when you get older, all of the city you begin to let that stuff go but um and and I yes, I would give anything if I could have just taken join in um and and sometimes I did, by the way, when I got dressed up and I felt terrific no yeah and you you just feel like, okay I I got the world and I had moments like that .

I remember when you and dad um this is i'm actually talking about my step because I was set their wedding. I was the flower girl and when I was four and they ve got married, and my mom had an incredible dress. I loved that dress. Did you love IT?

Mommy.

that dress. I have loved IT. IT was IT was Green, sort of, i'm going to say, a saton within bordered White flowers on IT. And I remember thinking that that dress was very beautiful. I also loved my dress that day.

I like that day. Oh my god.

my dress was very good. I was sort of A A White dress with like a little islet edge or something on the right. And I was Carrying pink roses, I believe. And my mom was Carrying red roses, and I decided to have a shit fit because I didn't like my flowers. I only like her flowers.

And so I gave you one one of the red roses, and then you, you pink roses to put in our booky. yes. So we, we, we that was out.

I was a bit of a compromise, and i'm still, i'm not gonna E A bit bitter. And I wish I could have had the whole bk for myself.

And I also, dare we get into the talk of the gloves? sure. I I remind that you were gonna n these little White lace gloves and I thought the wedding couldn't go on, you know, without them and uh so you said you weren't going aware them and I said, and then there no wedding because that about and your step when and dad came up and he was hearing us, uh, over this issue and so he said, i've got an idea, girls he said, how about if I take the gloves and I put them in my breast pocket and then if you need them, you'll know where they are but i'll just keep them safe so he just took care, the whole situation.

amazing, amazing. Grand parenting moment on his part, amazing.

And then the gloves now were said .

to my niece.

your nis, and that he had him for.

well, actually a your bubble mom SHE doesn't want them either and he gave back to me, oh good. yeah. So they're sitting in my in my desk and and still yet to be worn by any a child that's just not mabe.

Maybe George visit with this. Teach you that's .

our dog for those who are listening. George, my, I might put them on George for me. Well, I think we've done. Did IT okay? Love you. okay? Love you.

Love you. Good 拜。

There is more wiser than me with lemonade. Premium subscribers get exclusive access to bonus content from each episode of the show subscribed now in apple podcast. Make sure you're following wiser than me on social media.

We're on instagram and tiktok at wise than me, and we're on facebook at why than me podcast wider than me as a production of lemon autometer, a created and hosted by me, Julia li dice. This show is produced by cric peace, jara Williams, alex michelin and oh lo pez. Brad hall is a consulting producer.

Rachel neil is VP of new content and our S B P of weekly content and production Steve elson. Executive producers are polo, caplin, sophana, whittles, wax, Jessica cordoba, mer and me. The show is mixed by john y.

Vince Evans with engineering help from James farber. And our music was written by Henry hall, who you can also find on spotify or wherever you listen to your music. Special thanks to welsh legal. And of course, my mother, due with balls, follow wise with me wherever you get your podcast. And if there's a wise old lady in your life, listen up.

Hey, whie are the me listeners we want to hear from you by just answering a few questions on our listener survey. You can share feedback about show content you'd like to see in the future and help us think about what brands would serve you best and even Better. Once you've completed the survey, you can offer for a chance to win a one hundred dollar VISA gift card. The survey is short and sweet and will help us play ads you don't want to skip and keep bringing you content you love. Just go to lemonade media 点 com slash survey， lemon media dot com slash survey.