What Democrats Think Went Wrong
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This podcast is supported by the PBM Accountability Project. There's consensus in Congress. Real PBM reform is needed now. Both sides agree we need to improve transparency, break the link that allows PBMs to tie their profits to the price of the drug.

and force PBMs to share discounts with seniors. Call Congress today. Tell them to finish the job and pass bipartisan Senate bills 2973 and 3430. America's seniors are counting on it. Two years ago, as we set out to cover the long run-up to this election and the prospect of Donald Trump's third run for the White House, we actually started with an autopsy from 2013 and the set of political assumptions—

that led to Donald Trump's first win. Back then, President Barack Obama and Vice President Joe Biden had just been overwhelmingly re-elected. The Republican Party was in disarray, and the Republican National Committee had ordered a kind of investigation, an autopsy, into what had happened. And what you can see in the conclusions are the political assumptions at that time. Mainly, this idea of demographic destiny.

the belief that the country's increased racial diversity was transforming the political landscape. That diversity, both parties thought, would largely benefit Democrats. And to survive, the Republicans concluded they would need to become more racially inclusive and less anti-immigration. Of course, what we know now was that this was only half right. America's increased diversity has transformed the political landscape.

just not in the way people expected. Now, it's Democrats, not Republicans, who are the ones in disarray and have been left reeling by the emergence of an increasingly multiracial coalition, which rejected the argument that Trump was a threat to the country and chose to elect him again. Already, the unexpected result has inspired Democrats to conduct an autopsy of their own, with elected officials, activists, pollsters, and donors all weighing in,

But if I've learned anything from the story of that GOP autopsy, or even our work over the last two years, it's that the insiders don't always have the answers. And in fact, not hearing the voices of everyday Americans is part of what got them here in the first place.

So today, to wrap up our reporting on this election, I wanted to go back to one specific group of voters for their diagnosis. I was wondering if you were even going to make it. Plus, I love an excuse to go home. From the New York Times and the Chicago suburbs, I'm Astead Herndon, and this is The Run-Up. Thanksgiving has always been my favorite holiday.

And last year might have been my favorite Thanksgiving of all time. Because if you remember, that's when I convened a group of family, friends, people I knew from growing up or from my father's church in suburban Chicago. We conducted a focus group about the election and specifically the question of Black people's changing relationship to the Democratic Party. We talked about President Biden, Vice President Harris,

and polls showing that Donald Trump might be growing his support with Black men. Let us pray. Lord, we thank you and praise you for this day. This is the day that you have made, and we will rejoice and be glad in it. This year, when I gathered the same group of people back at my parents' house, I had a slightly different mission based on the election results

and the moment of soul-searching that's currently happening among Democrats. We're praying for our nation, Lord God. Our nation needs your help, and we ask for your insight, for your power, for your mercy to heal the divide, Lord God. Oh, Lord, you see the transitions. You know when the future is in your hand, but we're trusting you to give us wisdom and understanding. This is a group of people who represent the base of the Democratic Party, multi-generational Black voters.

middle, and working class. In my mind, these are some of the people who can best explain why the party's message didn't land in 2024. Considering that, when we met last year, many of them expressed resentment and frustration towards the Democratic establishment, which they worried was putting the party on a path to lose. So, we all got some food. Cornbread, catfish, my sister's 13 different desserts.

And sat in the living room.

to embark on this political autopsy together. Does anyone want to start us off right now and say why they think, why do they think Donald Trump won? I don't think it was ready for a female, whether she was black or white. I just don't think we're ready, the country is ready for that. So we'll put sexism? Yeah. Reason number one? I would say time. One person had four years, another person had 100 days. So I think that played into the part, because certain states...

You might have to put a hard hat on, talk to unions, actually let them know who you are and what you stand for. I think that's one reason. It was time. And another reason is that she did not separate herself from Joe Biden. So what Joe Biden was doing wrong, she didn't take a step apart from it. She kind of just didn't really make her own stamp on her own thing she was running on.

Yeah, and I think that's major because she wasn't a change agent. She was defending the status quo and everyone was frustrated with the prices, with immigration, with this and that. So they just tied that all to her. And she would have had to distinctly stand for

with a new message. And so there was no enthusiasm towards her because she was defending... Well, I mean, there was a lot of enthusiasm when that switch happened. So what do you think changed from a moment when, you know, Democrats were talking about it's 2008 all over again? Well...

Enthusiasm, yes. But when I look at Obama, when he ran and just how it really spread, not just among African-Americans, but throughout the entire country, I didn't see that with Kamala. I thought that there was support from African-Americans overall, but Latino individuals, men, it seemed like they were drawn to Trump and his ideas.

the way he carries himself. I would say the number one thing I think that matters in most elections is popularity. You know, I think Trump's been running for president for about 30 years in America and just we get caught up in a lot of little city bubbles and, you know, establishment bubbles and we think that everybody watches the news, everybody watches the news station you watch, but

But in most of the country, I don't think a lot of people even know who Kamala Harris is, really. I mean, like, just literal in general. If you go to Albuquerque, New Mexico, to the train yard, and you show a picture of this woman, you say, who is this? They're going to be like, I don't know. You show Trump in 90% of the country, whether it's from Home Alone movies or commercials or being brought out by your favorite celebrity, you know what I'm saying? Yeah.

Like, it's just more popular, like, at the end of the day. I don't think it has to do with anything like that. Kamala Harris is the main thing that... I'm just...

Kamala Harris is an example of what everybody is tired of. She represents government waste. And I think that's the biggest thing that Donald Trump ran on. Like, why are you taking my money and giving it away? It's one thing if you use money to defend the country, to save American people. But now we're just giving money away. And people are starving. People are being taxed to death. And you're one of those people that I see all the time. Oh, let's waste money on this. Okay. Why? Why?

I mean, the reason he in is because people want him to give money away. So Trump is in office for money and immigration. Those are two issues. People felt like the two topics that they really wanted to deal with were our money. So whether it's white men and what our retirement is going to look like or whether it is the Venezuelans on our corner and who going to put them out. Those are two of the main reasons I believe he's in office. And then also that really didn't like...

Unfortunately, that surpassed, you know, racism, ignorance, you know, disrespect, and all that could be put to the side. What about my money? A couple of, four years ago, Democrats weren't talking like there was a big problem with immigration. Like, Donald Trump was, but it's not as if literally Democrats were. Like, I guess even hearing you say that makes me ask a different question. Like, was he right about some of those problems? Well, I mean, I think

I think with them directly sending immigrants to Chicago, we now have a different, at least I have a different understanding of it just because I know so many people who, you know, the immigrants would be at the police station and their homes are right on the same block. And, you know, they weren't able to sleep at night because they would be, you know, having fireworks go off through the whole night. I remember, you know,

Brandon Johnson and Pritzker asking for Biden to help us during that time. And it didn't really seem like he was doing anything. And so I think a lot of people were frustrated with his lack of response to helping us specifically in Chicago. Yeah, I say that Trump tapped into a thread of disgruntled, dissatisfied, angry people.

And he understood that there was that level of dissatisfaction and people being disgruntled with how government was being run, et cetera. And then, you know, I come from a civil rights era. And, you know, I think that he was the champion in many minds of whiteness. And I think that preserving that

was important to a broad representation of that dissatisfaction, and he represented that I will be the champion for that. Along with that, I think that it wasn't so much that they wanted Trump, they didn't want her. And with the people that voted for him previously and didn't vote for him previously, they voted for him this time.

So people just came out of the rural areas and some are everywhere to make sure that that black woman would not win. If white Hillary didn't win, definitely they was not going to let the black woman win. That's my perspective. Well, were you all if that was true, then were you expecting her to lose on Tuesday? Yeah.

I would love to hear black women specifically speak on the seeing her run and what you thought when the result was coming in.

Oh, I was going to say, I will be honest, when they first announced that she was now the nominee...

Me and a lot of people were like, oh, this is going to be, it's no way. Like, is this the best option? Like, this is the state of America. But then the next day when everybody was like, oh, we had these calls, we raised all this money. Then I was really starting to think like, okay, like this can happen. And then when she lost, I kind of took it a little personal because I actually related to her more than Hillary because she went to HBCU like me. I'm an attorney. To like see her up there, I was like, okay.

okay, like things are changing. Like, and I felt like after I was like, oh, I was being a little naive. That's what it kind of felt like to me because I should have known. Did it feel more personal than 2016 since it was a black woman, a woman of color in the Luthan? No, I was just going to, yeah, I think it did feel a little more personal than 2016. I,

relating to everything that Chanel just said, I felt like at first I was like, this can't happen. But then as time went on, I got more hopeful and I felt, you know, even special voting and pressing that button to vote for Harris as the first potential black woman for president. But I think ultimately after seeing the results, I'm not completely surprised. And I feel like, I don't like, why did I let myself get hopeful? Yeah.

2016 stung me more because I really felt in then how could anyone vote for him? I mean, that was my rationale. You don't feel that now? I feel it now, but they already tricked me. I was already educated that that's possible then. And so this time, I mean, I remember feeling...

Back then, like I was just walking in a maze. This time, I was, you know, it was almost like I was hopeful because the money was being raised and the polls. I didn't trust the polls. I don't trust polls at all. No more. No more. I think people are lying. I think they're inflating the polls.

So, you know, I wasn't trying to hurl my hat on the polls at all. And so, but I was...

that because of the money that was being raised and the general excitement around it, that it was going to be a possibility. And when the results were so bad, they were so bad. They were so bad.

So, you know, I'm of the personal opinion that you can't look at the scope of that result and say it's just racism, sexism. I think that before we get to the sexism and the racism, I think that we should really hold the Democratic Party accountable.

I was afraid. I had fear when Biden said he was going to run again, if I'm going to be real. I didn't have any hope until Vice President Harris jumped in. And honestly, they didn't put her in the position. So I think that

Yes, there are a lot of reasons why. But if we're looking at the next election, who's next? There's kind of like a, who's the next leader of this party? And I mean, I just think that everyone's got, we've got to look in the mirror. You know...

I'm surprised that y'all are making more excuses than I thought. This was not an election where no one showed up. There's partly a way you see this where Donald Trump persuaded more people. And I'm asking, why is that? Why? So I guess there's not, I haven't heard enough about why we think

People were legitimately persuaded. Are they just all ignorant? They're all ignorant. Just as I said, he tapped into something. You know, um...

And this might sound like going to spiritual, but wickedness and genius sometimes can walk together. And he tapped into something, a thread in America. And he tapped into the darker thread of America. And those that subscribe to those things to protect whatever they might view needs to be protected for their interests.

He became the champion for that. And that, for me, is what I saw, why he was effective. And to piggyback on Chairman, the reality of it is the Hispanic vote...

was a big one as well. You look at some of the people that came here and I work with a lot of them. They felt it was unfair that their people came here, second, third generation and worked hard and did it legally and people were being flown and bused here and they were getting things that they felt that they shouldn't get. So,

So it was a fear. I mean, the reality of it is they went far left. I think the reality of it is some of the policies care more about, say, the homosexual man than they did the black man. I mean, those are realities. I mean, and so when you say why it wasn't there, you know, the base, the Democratic base has lost some of its standing. I mean, we can we can.

all around, you know. But the reality of it is they've lost it. They got a little too big for their britches and they need to go back to the drawing board to try to reach the masses. But that's the reality. I mean, that's really what I'm asking here is like, is because I think to the point, to point this back to our exercise of like an autopsy. Yeah.

Some of that has to require some more inward looking. So I'm not trying to dismiss racism and sexism. I guess I'm just also saying I remember some of the things that came up last year. People bringing up that they felt the Democrats were talking more about cultural issues, LGBTQ stuff than money. Right? Like y'all said that last year. And so I guess I'm asking for a little more man in the mirror here. As a party as a whole,

they didn't speak to us everyday people and the things that bothered or the things that we saw and faced every day. Like what?

Like I said, it would be. Immigration is one of them. Like that was a present in your face issue that I don't think they really, you know, had a solution or thought about or shared one about. Yes, we deal with reproductive rights, but then that falls on the side of women, the lesser population, not the less because I don't believe the lesser. But that issue, like they already don't regard women that much. So that one they can throw out the.

They're out the window like no one's really dealing with that. And then this whole idea of inflation, everything is costing so much. And so we're all dealing with that. And so if Trump is going to speak to like, hey, I'm going to make it more cost effective for you to live. And then I'm going to get rid of these people on your corner and all these immigrants. And then the Latinos, of course, they consider themselves white.

So they didn't line up with the people of color. So I'm at the point now where, no, let's be clear. I am black and you are brown. So we can't be like a whole population of people of color because ain't no collectiveness in this. I mean, this is such a big change, though, from, you know, 12 years ago, Obama era. We were at that time we were talking about this multiracial coalition and all of that stuff. Now you all are saying you don't even want to be.

You don't want to be linked up. We don't. I'm black and you are black. You know what, though? I really... But I really think that part of what Trump issued in was sort of like a... And I don't have the proper word, but almost like a me generation. People became self-focused on their own individual need. The Democratic Party...

historically has been like a big net for everybody, for all people, for all, you know, the men, you know, not men, but I'm just saying for all gender, everybody. But that net concept has

is not working now because, and like even for example, I was so disappointed with the Arab community in Michigan that didn't support Harris. I was just blown away by the fact that they actually supported Trump. So this whole, even immigrants and all that,

It doesn't really exist in the same way because people are... Right, that collective. It doesn't exist in the same way. And I think that is causing and will cause the Democratic Party to have to re-evaluate because the net is broken. And it's not holding all of the...

of the people that it once did. It's not doing it. Well, a question I have though is because in one way I can see how you could look at Arab voters backing Trump or some Latinos backing Trump and say this is a sign of their distance from black people. But you could also say that they are willing to send Democrats a message the way black people have not.

Like, is there a lesson? Like, are black people getting the return of investment of voting for Democrats over and over? Is the system you are voting to preserve serving you? No. Why? Because it hasn't ever really served us well.

Fully and completely I would say it never has We've always had to pick And you know choose And you know Now maybe this new generation Doesn't want to do that But we've always had to You know juggle

And get in and work out and struggle and make our issues known. And so I don't think African-American people, black people have ever been deceived. We just voted on what that means.

or that party their best interest for us. But I don't think we've ever been deceived into thinking that that party was going to be our savior. That's not what I'm asking, no.

We're a pretty small subset of the population. And so I love that you brought up the civil rights movement, but there was going to be no way that black people by themselves passed that legislation and passed any of those moments. We had to have a broad coalition, right?

Yet last week, let me know that broad coalition does not exist anymore. Right now. So but but we played into that system. What is going to be our way to play to get things passed in the future if we.

That was the pillar of so many of our advancements, the electoral representative system, right, that we have used. So to your point,

This moment, every one of the people of color subsets had a issue, right? The Middle Eastern folks had Gaza, right? Women had abortion. I think black people had a number of other issues, right? But it was only black people who said, we're going to vote for the collective. That is offensive, right?

That is like, to me, as a black person, right, that does not, right. And to me, it's like, well, what has happened since 2016? That movement was fake.

That was fake. That was performative work that has not equaled into real conversations about equity. And then you're going to come to us. You know what I'll say? The difference between last year and this year, I just want to apologize to black men because black men came and voted. They came out. I was the one. I was the one to blame. I said it. I said it. But I apologize because that was false. But everything I said...

said last year about men was true.

That leads me to another question. You know, after 2016, there was such an explosion of protest and anger at Trump's election. We haven't seen that this time. We have not seen the mass amount of activism. And so one question I have for you all is why do you think that is? And is there something about this election of Trump

that feels different than eight years ago? Like, why aren't, you know, why aren't the streets full? You know? I actually think it kind of is like what you said. I think some people in 20... When was that? When did he win? 2016. 2016.

people felt like they were in a maze. They thought they were going to ship all the black people back to Africa. And I think now people are like, okay, well, I lived here for four years and I think people are kind of going about their protests in a different way because unfortunately on social media, I've seen a lot of people, especially black people, saying, well, now

I'm just focusing on my community because they felt abandoned by other people. So that's their way of protesting, not being in the streets, but they're saying, oh, I'm not helping the immigrant populations or black women are like, I'm not a feminist as a whole. I'm just focusing on the black community. You know,

After the election, we talked to this voter in Michigan who voted for Trump. And one of the things that she was saying was really that she was comfortable with the selfishness of her vote, that she voted because Donald Trump might get her job back and that, you know, she decided that was going to be more important than anything else. And she kind of owned the idea that I understand I'm not choosing a kind of collective decision, but this is what matters most to me. I guess...

What I hear in this room is like, you all don't see that as how you vote. Or you don't see that type of lens. You think about the collective and your decision. I guess I'm saying, why? I can't speak for everybody. I'm wondering if that is a historical mindset for black people. I think since we've come here...

It may not be the right mindset, but we've been kind of taught to not just think about us as a community, but think about others. And think about America. And I think people are realizing now maybe that's a brainwash mentality because we see other minority groups kind of abandoning that and they are solely thinking about just what will benefit them. Where we said earlier, the Democrat Party was supposed to be for all. We may not agree with everything that...

Kamala or Biden or the Democrats, but we say, okay, it's for the better good. It's for the better collective. So that's what we're going to, and we've kind of been taught to do that. And I think now black people are waking up and say, well, wait, everybody else isn't doing that. And we kind of did band together. We had the most numbers. We banned behind Kamala and our numbers just weren't enough to put her in by ourselves to get her in there. Yeah.

There was a lot said this year about how democracy was on the line in this election. Do you think that's true? And if that is true, what are we talking about then in terms of going forward? What is the range of possibility you think that might be ahead of us? I'd like to just say, I really think we haven't seen the final act. There's more to play out.

And I think that I view that it's going to get dark. I'm getting signals of that from some of these cabinet picks.

because I believe Trump is going to do just what he promised he was going to do. And many of the things that we have enjoyed, I think that they're going to work very hard to remove it. So I say this, we haven't seen the final act yet. The streets aren't because people are kind of resigned? I don't think so. People are disinterested? I think people...

They're selfish, and they voted selfishly, but they also didn't have a sense of history in terms of what has taken place in the past and in other countries. Now, as African Americans, we came here as slaves. We had to deal with Jim Crow laws and lynchings. We've seen America, okay, the horrors of America, maybe Native Americans,

The Japanese who were in those intermittent camps. Those are probably the only three groups that saw the horrors of America and could understand that someone like Donald Trump will do the wicked things that were written in Project 2025. And so I believe people think that they may respond emotionally as things start to unfold, but I think he's more prepared now. He probably will shoot people. Oh, yeah.

If they protest, unlike during George Floyd, he wanted it to happen, but he didn't have the people in place. The people he's putting in place now are going to do whatever he wants them to do. And I believe that by the time America realizes that democracy is gone, we may not even have a midterm election. OK, because everything is being dismantled.

These words remind me that even though Democrats' message on Trump and democracy was ineffective at the polls, that doesn't mean it wasn't true. Trump has promised to transform the political system, exact revenge on political opponents, and roll back efforts to address issues like racial diversity and inequality. And if his recent cabinet picks are any tell, he's dead serious.

In winning, Trump not only defeated Kamala Harris, the Democratic Party, and the political establishment, but the notion of demographic destiny itself. Because not only has the country's growing diversity not led to the predicted Democratic victories, it may be the very reason that Trump has been able to exploit divisions among their base. The political autopsy continues after the break.

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After hearing what my friends and family thought went wrong, I gave the group one final assignment.

As my colleagues Anna and Alisa walked around the room with microphones. We're going to pass out a lot of cards. And with this time, I want you all to look ahead and say, what would you want from a Democratic candidate in 2028? What would you want them to talk about? What issues do you want them to speak on? Tell the party all the things you wish they knew going into this election cycle. Like what type of candidate are you looking for?

What issues should that person prioritize? And what things would you want them to avoid? We are making you all the most, the strategists, just we're paying you in desserts and not thousands of dollars. And so we're going to pass out the cards. And almost immediately...

it became clear that most everyone was on the same page. Policies you think the next— you would want the Democratic Party to fight for? I would say the economy. I think that was a major thing that the Democratic Party is not really talking about on— and not the economy as far as just the lower and middle class, but the upper class as well. They prioritized the issues they felt Democrats had avoided. When I was at criminal justice, I was going to say the border.

Education, health. I'm going to do health care and racial inequalities. Like education, equity, and criminal justice. You know, they should come up with a different word or phrase or terminology to talk about immigration. I just think that the word itself is just polarizing immigration.

They also talked about issues where they wished the party had laid out a different message, like on immigration. So I'm almost like, I don't want to talk about immigration anymore, but I do know we need to talk about it. But there needs to be some new strategy going forward about how we talk about it, because it's really not talked about holistically at all. And when I asked what the party should avoid... Is there anything you don't want them to talk about?

transgender stuff. Yeah. I think that's something I put on my card. You know, I think that the Democratic Party may have gone a little too far left on that. Because basically, and I'm speaking from the point of African Americans, basically we're more conservative than we are on that other side. People wanted less wokeness, which seemed to translate into less focus on LGBTQ issues.

and particularly trans rights. And I know it hurts my— I mean, I don't want to say it hurts, but I feel like we've learned this— we can't talk about the LGBTQ issue anymore. I agree. Later, the group discussed whether strengthening democracy should be on the agenda. The system as a whole, he has turned it upside down, so we need to just— it needs to be blown up and started over. Because, I mean, the Republican Party and the Democratic Party, as we know it, is not the same.

And so it's not serving nobody but the individuals that have the money and the wherewithal to deal with what they need to deal with. And so it needs to be changed for the people by the people. I can be saying, like, Trump's about to blow it up anyway. So... So...

So the next version of Democrats should be talking about their version of reform because it's here anyway. I don't want them to talk about how democracy is at stake because it's gone. Like he already won. So I feel like there's no need for them to keep talking about it. And when it comes to identity, do you want to draw your ideal candidate or do you want to draw a candidate you think is best suited to win?

They took a practical approach, focused on designing a candidate that people thought could win in 2028. I put what I wanted them to look like. And I honestly said a white man because I feel like I want to give us the fairest chance possible. Like we've shown it already, like,

To that end, they

They decided the next Democratic nominee should be male. Gender matters in America. Unfortunately, it is mind-boggling to me. It is disturbing. But I think it matters. The only thing that defeats a Trump-like figure or this version of Republican Party is a white man. It's a white male who's on fire.

A lot of people said he should be white. That is so sad. It is sad. We are at a sad state. We are at a sad state. We're looking at

We're at a sad stage. It's a sad time in America. But one thing they all agreed on is that whoever it is, they need to be younger. Are we going to look at the age? Wait, let me ask you this. When is the retirement age? 65. Okay, that's the cap. Okay.

And bio aside, this person should promise substantial reform. They just have to be a change agent. They just have to be on fire and aggressive and assertive. I would like to see them be aggressive.

Like, not passive. Oh, yeah. Aggressive was a big word of the night, as was change. Like, make me believe you stand it on truth. You're not afraid. You're not a punk. I want to see that confidence. I think that this candidate, as we already said, is going to be aggressive. But I think the top priority is going to be really...

fixing everything that Donald Trump has done. That's really going to be what is, I think we're going to have to be dealing with the fallout and having someone who recognizes the need for

the checks and balances within the system and strengthening those checks and balances so that another person who may be even more radical underneath him would not be able to go forward. — The point of running this aggressive, not-too-old white man was simple: to win. And it sounded like the type of pragmatism that led many Black voters to Joe Biden in the 2020 primary. But this time, more people seemed to question the Democratic Party itself,

and whether they needed to support a candidate who wouldn't just rebuild the electoral coalition,

But shake it up. What if we are trying to get somebody on our team who doesn't want to be on our team? And that goes back to what we talked about earlier. Once again, the Democrats, we're always trying to get everybody together. So are we still doing that with this candidate? Or are we going to be more so... He said that we're trying to rebuild the party. The party should affect all.

Yes. The party should affect all, because in the party you got millionaires. I mean billionaires. You got it. That's what I would love if the party just came to us and asked us, because that hasn't even happened, right? To come to black people and say, what do you really want? Like, not Juneteenth or these blue bead bracelets or anything like that. Like, not these performative moments, but I don't know if the Democratic Party since

or any other time have come to black people and come on Ben Dittany, right? Kiss the ring, right? And say, what do you want? Do you think like the Democratic, do you want a candidate that's like, I want to tear down the Democratic Party? No. We talked about systems and somebody who can like work within systems. Do we want somebody like that? Or do we want someone who's like, you need to start from scratch?

from a blank sheet of paper. I think we should deconstruct and then start all over. That's the only way it's going to work. I'm for a new party. I think we're already at a low point. And so I think we're already low. So we can build up from here. Break down or keep Democratic Party? I say keep it. I honestly feel like we should keep what we have. We just got to perfect our candidate. Like what we have, what we have is working. The problem is, is that we're not coming to the polls like we should.

I think the problem, though, that I have is these very people, and of course this is like the people, quote unquote, these very people chose to, as we talked about, give these anointments and appointments, no primary, you know, demanding that Joe stay on.

So I don't know if I'm loving the current Democratic Party because I feel like whoever they may bring is kind of, you know, they haven't been giving me some good options in the first place. But I think if they are consistent and bringing the facts to the people, coming consistently in the communities throughout the years, not just on presidential years.

then that will give them more clarity and give me more hope. But as of right now, like you said, they haven't done that. And it makes me concerned to back them when their quote-unquote choices for us as a party has not been really good. I went to the Democratic Party every night, right? And I was in there. You felt the convention, yeah. I went there, and it was a lot of joy fluff. Nothing concrete, nothing I can walk away and say, my life.

It's going to be affected for the positive when I live. It was just a lot of, have you ever been to, for those that go to church? Yeah, it was, that's all it was. You went to a whole lot of church, church service. We partied all week. Yeah, no death. No death. All milk. Yeah.

So do you want a more boring party, do you think? No, I want a more strategic, agenda-vote activist type of a, this is what we're doing, more...

Okay, we all know everybody don't like Trump. But he exactly, well, I'm not going to do that, but what I'm going to do. I didn't hear that. I didn't hear exactly what you're going to do. Like, what are you going to do? It was, do you feel the joy? I feel the joy. I want to feel the joy. I want to feel the difference.

Last year we tried it. We did it last year. And we're back again. Thank God for keeping us another year. And we also want to do what the Herndons do on Thanksgiving, which is we go around and we give a word of thanks. Just a word. A Herndon Thanksgiving tradition is to go around the table and say what you're thankful for.

My one word will be fantastical. So the story wouldn't be complete without the 2024 rendition. Blessings. Hopeful. Favor. Strength. What people were saying seemed like a good summary of the evening's mood. Peace. Thankful. Grateful. To survive.

The ups and downs, there were dips, but we came through, came through this year. It was a hard year. Fortitude. Merciful. Loving. But still, many people had hope. And of course, thanks.

Well, I'm grateful for everyone for being here again. And it's exciting to see so many of the faces that we saw last year here. It's been a big journey for us over this last couple years. But our intention has always been to empower everyday Americans and to give voice to people who political systems ignore.

And so I think part of that effort was in to understand, you know, who people might vote for. But even bigger than that, it is to help people understand each other. And it motivates me to put you all in the spotlight. So thank you for coming. I really appreciate it. Thank you.

When we started reporting on the run-up to this election, by looking at that 2013 Republican autopsy, it was because we were encountering a huge amount of voter apathy and disillusionment with the political system. People told us they felt like politics had gotten more and more disconnected from their lives. And when we dug into the reasons why, we traced some of that back to the faulty political assumptions made by both parties back in 2013

and in more recent years, when the prospect of a Biden-Trump rematch made these feelings even more pronounced. So much so that I think this is part of what Trump seized on to win in 2024. Not just the feeling of being left behind or the effects of inflation and immigration, but the sense that our politics is fundamentally broken. So while Trump may represent a threat to that system as it is, many have decided that's not all bad.

Because after traveling all across the country and talking to Americans of all political persuasions, I know a lot of them don't think Washington is working in the first place. Looking back over the past two years, I'm not sure I can blame them. That's it for this edition of The Run-Up. Thank you so much for listening. It has truly meant the world. You can continue to access previous episodes of The Run-Up wherever you get your podcasts and on the New York Times audio app.

Plus, our colleagues at Times Audio will continue to cover the incoming Trump administration and all things politics. AI is coming to your industry if it isn't already here. But AI needs a lot of speed and computing power. So how do you compete without costs spiraling? Upgrade to Oracle Cloud Infrastructure or OCI. OCI is the blazing fast and secure platform for your infrastructure, database, application development, and AI workloads.

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Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend to North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval. The Run-Up is reported by me, Ested Herndon, and produced by Elisa Gutierrez, Caitlin O'Keefe, and Anna Foley. It's edited by Rachel Dry and Lisa Tobin, with original music by Dan Powell, Marion Lozano, Pat McCusker, Diane Wong, Sophia Landman, and Alicia Ba'i-Tubb.

It was mixed by Sophia Landman and fact-checked by Caitlin Love. Special thanks to Paula Schumann, Sam Dolnick, Larissa Anderson, David Halfinger, Elizabeth Davis-Morer, Maddie Maciello, Mahima Chablani, Jeffrey Miranda, Elizabeth Bristow, Akilah Townsend, the Herndon family, and everyone who spoke to us along the way. Thanks so much, y'all.