Tailgating in Wisconsin With the Bros Trump Needs
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What are they playing? I don't know. It's a dice game, I think. Yeah. So admittedly, it's been a few years since I was in college. But a week ago, in Madison, Wisconsin, I, along with my colleague Anna, saw something new. What is this game? I haven't seen this early though. It's beer die. Beer die. It was a Saturday afternoon.

hours before the University of Wisconsin Badgers took on the Penn State Nittany Lions for their homecoming football game. And we were at a tailgate, watching our first game of beer dye. So let's say we throw first. Our goal is to just hit it on their side of the table. Someone taught us the rules. You get more points. So like if you throw it, land it in the cup, that's three points. But even at the beer dye table...

What publication are you guys working on? We're at the New York Times. We're talking about politics. We're not talking about the game. That's why I was just talking with him. I'm like, all right, swing state. Politics is never far away. Both candidates have been in and out of the state. Yeah, exactly. Okay, well, good luck, guys. We came to this game to check in on a phenomenon that's been getting a lot of attention this election. The growing gender gap among young people, with more and more young men leaning right.

and more and more young women going left. In recent national surveys from the New York Times and Siena College, young women backed Kamala Harris by 42 percentage points, and young men favored Donald Trump by 12 points. Beyond that, Trump has made explicit appeals to men, or at least his version of masculinity, a huge part of his message and campaign strategy. And people like Elon Musk and J.D. Vance have made it clear

that they think the more men who come to the polls, the better Trump's chances at victory. So as we enter the election's final days, I wanted to see how these messages were landing in the key battleground of Wisconsin, among a group of voters who weren't always talked about, but this time everyone has their eyes on. What's driving the gender divide in 2024? And is Trump's bet on young men working?

From the New York Times and Game Day in Madison, Wisconsin, I'm Ested Herndon. This is The Runoff. There's a guy carrying a case of Twisted Tea. Look at those cases of Bush Light. I want to see some hams. Are the kids, what are they? Oh, the kids are drinking Bush Light? Hell yeah. We started our afternoon of tailgating, walking around this park in Madison. People were grilling. Kids were throwing footballs. Classic Game Day stuff.

Madison's a college town, and it's known for being extremely progressive. But that wasn't what we found at our first stop. Hi, y'all. My name's Estep. This is Anna. We're from the New York Times. We're actually here... Phi Kappa Theta, a frat house overlooking the park. We introduced ourselves to a big group of students there. Young men in particular. Are you a Democrat, Republican? Do you consider yourself a member of a party? I'm Republican. Republican.

What made you a Republican? What drew you to the Republican Party? Outbringing. Yeah, upbringing for the most part. Say more. We grew up in a small town, so just a different aspect. That's how we're all raised. I feel like Trump has more of the business mindset. I feel like what you need to run a country. I know like

Sometimes you want to be the best for the people, but at the same time you want to have that business mindset because you need to have a good country. It's the same aspect. So running a business, that's what the U.S. is basically. Not going to run ourself into debt. If any business did that, it'd go bankrupt. So if you could choose an issue that you say most draws you to someone like Trump, you said the economy. I feel like he gives us a good show of force. I mean, not to be messed around with. Our

Current president, I feel like you could just push him around easily. And I feel like Trump doesn't, he can stand up for himself and yeah. I feel like he's more of like a real person. I feel like the Democratic Party is kind of like behind a wall. I feel like everything's like, I don't know, more scripted. I feel like anyone can talk to him like a real person kind of thing. You never have a conversation with him.

They try to use Tim Walls as like the, always a midwestern coach but it's like he's clearly like a homosexual. Like he's up there like, like Tim Walls, they just use Tim Walls as like, oh look we got this white male who was a coach but it's like, no he's totally like not, like, he's not our guy, he's not our guy. So, so, so I'm hearing that you think like Trump is more of a man?

I wouldn't say he's more of a man, but I feel like when you see him at McDonald's cooking the fries, I'm like, okay, I rock with that. He's like a real human being. I'm like, I could have a beer with Trump. So it's less a masculinity thing and more like a real person thing. You're already stoked on Trump, though. He could do anything and you would like it. Why are you debating me, bro? I'm just saying. We're having an intellectual conversation.

A lot of data says that women are becoming more liberal while men are becoming more conservative. Do you think that that's true? Does that feel true to y'all's lives? Yeah. I would buy that. I mean, right now, a lot of people are saying vote for Kamala, I mean, woman for president. So, I mean, I think that plays a big role in that.

- And all that brat stuff, like brat summer, like that was just targeted at women and it completely flops. Kamala went up in the summer, everyone's like, "Oh, it's a brat summer." And now she's getting totally destroyed in every battleground. It's gonna be like a 300 electoral college victory for Trump.

It's over. It's over. It's going to be way closer than that. Trump just took the lead in RCP polling. We're following real clear policy. You're deep in it. I'm saying, you say when you heard the Brad Summer stuff, it sounded like a message that was directed to women. It was to mobilize the young women vote because after Roe v. Wade got overturned, they got really left and they got really politically engaged because abortion is their number one issue. So it's just trying to motivate them. It's like when J.D. Vance said, like, childless cat ladies.

they really hammered that too. So they're trying to get all the female vote out. What do you think about abortion? Does that come into your politics at all? I'm a devout Christian, so I'm pro-life. I understand exceptions, but I'm pro-life. As a man, I don't feel like I should have a choice on it. I feel like it's wrong for me to vote on what women do with their bodies. So it just needs to be in your calculus, really? I know. I'd rather absolve myself from that

Does that divide make things harder? Like, I imagine, like...

even we, you know, people talk about dating or like things like that. Like, do you feel that there, that divide has like impacted your life in some way? Very much so for me. My girlfriend is very, much more liberal than I am. And she's like very big on like the, like abortion being one of her policies that she's voting on. And I'm not voting on that. And she's, that heavily upsets her. Um,

We do talk about it, but I think it's an unproductive conversation because I don't feel like I should really have a choice on it, but I also don't want to just agree with whatever she says. I think we should make our own choices, but I don't want to make a choice on what she does with her body. So I don't know if that makes sense. You said it does feel palpable. It feels like a thing that's true in your life, that women may be going one direction and men feel like they're going another. For sure. Yeah, I definitely agree with that.

Whenever you like talk politics, I feel like in like a friend group, things like that, it's always a divide. I feel like it's more men like more going like right, women going more towards the left side. I feel like it's just like kind of splits up friend groups, especially in like college. I feel like that's just something we don't talk about as much unless it's like with like your gender, really, honestly. Why do we think young men are becoming more conservative? What do you think is driving that?

I don't know if it's more young men are becoming more conservative or women are becoming more democratic. Do you think actually the bigger change is women becoming more democratic? Yeah. Yeah, I think so. You can't just all put it off yourself. I'm not saying, I'm saying, I don't think it's... I don't know the women, dude. The women are getting super liberal. I'm saying, I'm saying, I'm saying I don't think it's more of men changing to conservative. I think it's more women are switching over to democratic views. Mostly because of the whole abortion talk and the divide between that. That's like the big divider between the...

Female voters and the male voters. Priority, specifically. I think that's a big contributor to it. Where do you get your news? Who do you listen to? Like, who are the messengers about this election you trust? I get everything off X. All my listeners off X. Is there someone you listen to the most? Like, is there, like, an influencer, podcast, YouTuber, like...

Charlie Kirk and the Nelk boards are probably two of the top people I actually listen to. I know they're probably not the best sources. Also, Joe Rogan. I listen to him a lot. I know he doesn't talk a ton out of it. Every once in a while, he will. But yeah, those are probably the three. Interview with Trump. Yeah. I haven't listened to that one yet, but I plan to. I don't really watch any of it. I see the ads because they're always in my fucking face, bro. I'm so sick of the ads. I don't need to watch any of the news. They're both terrible people, apparently, so I don't really want to watch it. Okay.

I do plan to vote just because... How do you make a decision then? I don't fucking know, man. I think that you got to separate the politics from the people. Because I think all politicians are scumbags. Is that the point I'm at in my life? And I just support some of the economic shit with Trump more than I support the comments. And I thought that the way they just booted Biden out and pretended like that wasn't fucked up at all. And like she hasn't been...

literally like doing everything. She's been following him the whole way and all of a sudden they randomly kick him out and now we're just supposed to act like it's okay. I don't know. To me, that's really scummy. And not that the Republicans haven't done anything scummy either, but whatever. I'm more of policy over the people, I guess. You don't really have a belief in the individual people, but you did like Trump's economic stuff a little more, so that's why you're going to vote for him. I really appreciate y'all chatting with us. And you should check out our podcast. It's called The Run-Up. I think you'd like it. New York Times, what is it?

It's called the run-up. You guys work at the New York Times? Do you happen to know the people that make the connections game? Tell them to make that shit easier. The last couple of weeks they've been cooking. It's so long. These guys were largely responding to the message that the Trump campaign and its arrogance have been trying to send them directly.

that the other side is too soft. And the Tim Walz version of manhood, the high school football coach who's also involved with the Gay-Straight Alliance, is the opposite of what a strongman looks like. As we left the frat and wandered around to other tailgates, we talked to more young men who said they like Trump for similar reasons. He gets up, puts his fist in the air, and says, fight. His response to the assassination attempt in Butler, Pennsylvania, came up multiple times. And that's...

And a larger idea about what his response to that represents.

I emotionally relate to it because in my mind, I feel especially on campus sometimes, like we, like our, how do I say this?

our opinions aren't necessarily respected. Are we conservative? Yeah, correct. So, I mean, obviously, we're in Madison, which is, like, extremely blue. The university, like, is, like, the center of it being super blue, obviously. And so that's kind of a hard thing. And so then when, like, a candidate like that gets attacked for that, and that's... And I don't blame, obviously, like, liberals or, you know, Democrats for the assassination attempt, but I think there's a lot of rhetoric around, you know, just, like, Native Americans

naming him the same breath as Hitler, those kinds of things that contribute, that I think is creating like an unhealthy, like an unhealthy political rhetoric that I don't like. Several young men said they admired that Trump is unafraid to stand up for his beliefs, even if they are politically incorrect. I think with the whole toxic masculinity idea, I think that's really pushed a lot of men away from liberalism. I think it's made a lot of guys identify with a lot more conservative candidates who they might have

They might have been more willing to identify with more liberal people if they felt like they heard them out. But I think a lot of people make men

feel demonized for just being men and that pushes them away from the more liberal side of things. I'm trying to figure out the best way to explain it. I hear what you're saying, that there are some traits that you think liberals have demonized that aren't all that bad. Even desire for success or things that men feel have been labeled as toxic and that has turned some men away. Yeah, I think there's a lot more our culture could do to explain

Yeah, it's things like, you know, people hold the door open for a woman and they're like, I can get it myself. It's like, oh, it wasn't that I didn't think you could get the door. It's that I wanted to do it for you, right? It's like, so I think our culture fundamentally has misunderstood what like masculinity should be. And then it's,

when people talk about or think about masculinity, they're only thinking about these few things. And that then young men are left thinking like, well, what does it mean to be masculine? How should I be acting? Is there something about Trump that speaks to masculinity, do you think? That's a good question. I would say it's probably him being able to speak his mind, even if we don't like everything he says. But...

I think people have felt unheard, like young men. And so to have someone who stands up for what, like Trump stands up for what he believes, even if I don't agree with everything. And they see that as a kind of like, they identify with that because he's able to stand up for himself. But we did also find some more progressive groups of young men as we walked around. At one house near campus, we walked up to a group of a half dozen or so guys.

painting a giant sign in Wisconsin red. My name's Estet, this is Ed, and we're from the New York Times. We're here today talking to folks about actually the election and how young folks are feeling about it. Do you mind if we chit-chat for five minutes? I can tell you yourself, either a Democrat, Republican, anything specific? Um...

You know, I think I voted Democrat. I voted for Kamala Harris. But I think I like I lean more towards the center. But in this election, especially, you know, it's. Yes, I really I really voted. A lot of it has to do with the women in my life. I feel really strongly about their rights. And I don't want those taken away from them, you know.

They're really scared about what happened with the Donald Trump election. You know, I know as a white man, you know, my rights aren't really being threatened, but I worry about them and I worry about, you know, my mother, my girlfriend, my sister, and I want them to all, you know,

all have the rights that should be guaranteed to them, you know, reproductive rights, like abortion rights, like what do you think? Okay. Really important to me. And, you know, my girlfriend, my sister, they talk about it a lot. My mother, obviously not so much, but, you know, it's very important to them. And, you know, like I said, it's not it doesn't affect me as much, but, you know, it's not about me. It seems as if you're talking about your vote as like a proxy for other people. And that's how you kind of viewed it. Is that

Am I hearing that right? It's just, you know, like like I said, like nothing, nothing. I'm I'm not being threatened in this election. Right. And I understand that. And I understand that it's important that I look out for the people in my life and, you know, what may be happening to them. Right.

There's been a lot made in this election about a gender divide, about young men specifically. How much do you hear people even talking about it? Do you think this is you as a poli-sci major following it? Or do you think the election has been a topic of discussion for a lot of people in your life? I think it's definitely been a topic of discussion for a lot of people. I think there's recently been a big wave of conservatism among young men. What do you think is causing that? They see masculinity being attacked recently. You see a lot of it...

They think, you see these people pushing out agendas that, you know, your manhood is under attack, you know, they want, they like, you know, the radical left or whatever, and they're attacking men, and they take it personally, and they want to, like, find some, and they turn to, like, these radical sources, like Andrew Tate, are you familiar, like Charlie Kirk and all these guys, and, you know, they take it so seriously, and I don't necessarily know where it comes from, I guess, but...

My sense would just be, like, you know, masculinity and their threatened egos. One question. What do you think of, like, Donald Trump's brand of masculinity? His brand of masculinity? I don't see him as particularly masculine. Why? Because, I mean, I don't know, because he's that, like, it's hard to describe. He's that rich New York, upper class, like...

He doesn't get his hands dirty, you know, like, type of guy. When you think of, like, you know, macho man masculinity, right, Donald Trump isn't really the type of person that comes to mind, especially in the traditional sense. Like, I don't know, he's never worked a day in his life. Like, at least, you know, like, real hard work. But there does seem to be some sort of disconnect between what you're saying and the fact that he, like, there seem to be a bunch of men drawn to some version of masculinity he's projecting. Yeah, I suppose, but...

I think his brand of masculinity is more like make your mom and your sister upset when you're in middle school. Which is, yeah, I don't know. The version of men that pisses off women as a form of masculinity. I think that's genuinely a lot of it. I don't know, when I was in middle school, I loved making my sister and my mom upset. I just liked to push buttons. I was a mature kid. And I think that's where this all comes from. Are y'all Democrat, Republicans? Do you consider yourself a member of a party?

I'm definitely Democrat. Yeah, same. I think I'm technically independent. I'm not a part of either side, but I mostly vote Democratic. Have you voted or you plan on voting? I voted, yeah. We already all voted? Okay. Did you vote already? I will be. You will be, okay. Can I ask who you voted for? I voted for Kamala Harris. Same. Why? I don't like Trump. Yeah, that's a big one.

And like there's some things like abortion and stuff that I'm not I feel like it has to stay. And I don't know. I feel like it'll just be better. I don't know. I don't really. It was more vibes a little bit. Not really, but like a lot of votes or vibes. There's no shame in that. I'm saying like it. Is it more a pro Kamala vote for you or more anti-Trump vote for you? I'd say pro Kamala for me. I'm about half and half.

How about you? Probably more anti-Trump. I don't really like Kamala that much. You just find Trump more unacceptable? Yeah, I just hate Trump. One of the things that came up, you mentioned abortion rights. If you could describe an issue that was the most important that informed your vote, what would that be? I feel like that might have been it for me, personally. And just some other social things and stuff.

Yeah. I'd say both that also. Trump's campaign being much more hateful, aggressive and stuff. I think that's a really bad look for America. That's who's in power again after what happened. So yeah. Yeah. One of the big topics of discussion in this election has been young men and like a sense that young men are drifting toward the right and getting more conservative. We talked to some of your friends. You talked to your friend about this. He said he thinks that's true. Do you all think that's true?

I think absolutely. There's a huge pipeline on social media. I heard him drop like Andrew Tate and all those folks, PragerU, stuff like that. I think it's really dangerous with how, I don't know, unregulated things are, especially for young men at the time, just to really like go and see this. How's that pipeline? Can you describe how it works? Like, are you just like scrolling Instagram and you see it? Actually, I have a great example. Yeah. Like at one time, I like went on Twitter the other day, which we know who owns that now. Yeah.

Both myself and I guess who you were just talking to, Alex, ran into this at the same time. There's this anti-circumcision thread that we both got.

And it naturally turned into anti-Semitism from that. And it's like, you know, neither of us, like we use Twitter for sports and stuff. Searching, circumcisions. It just came up onto both of our pages. Like we do pretty different, or I mean, yeah, nothing that would have to do with that. And then you read through the comments and it's all, what's it called? Dog whistle? Is that the word for it? Yeah, yeah. Against like Jewish people, stuff like that. All of a sudden it turns into that. One question I have is like,

What do you think it is about Donald Trump that has appealed to some young men? If you think there is a shift happening that you have observed, what do you think is causing it?

I think everyone wants to feel like a victim and he really is like the, "Oh, the white man's plight. We don't get anything." All this stuff. And then for a lot of people, they're like, "Oh, I like this person who is pandering to me, wants this, wants to give me more of this because I feel like I'm not getting my attention, like what I think I deserve." Yeah. Also, like Trump kind of just says what's on his mind, doesn't really have any filter. I think a lot of people like that or respect that.

Like, he's not afraid to say what he believes. Is there any part, and I want to ask this delicately, but I mean, I'm just going to say it. Like, is there anything apart? There somewhat seems to be in the air that like a message of voting for a woman as a young man is supposed to like make you less manly or some type of like complication with your own sense of masculinity. Like, is there anything about Harris that has made your vote harder than voting for Biden or anything like that? Yeah. Absolutely not for me. No. No. No. No.

Gender doesn't matter in the presidency. It's not like I'm voting for an athlete or something where it actually does matter. It doesn't, it shouldn't matter. Cool. Thank you so much. We appreciate y'all's time. Yeah, that was great. Yeah, you too. So obviously there are lots of young men in Gen Z who don't ascribe to the Trump version of masculinity.

And think being a man is defined by being an ally to the women in their lives. But Trump is making a bet that the majority of young men will break his way. And since this group has historically not turned out in big numbers, you can see why the campaign thinks the bros have untapped political potential. After the break, more from Wisconsin.

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Learn more at mytcooking.com slash Instacart. Did you ever tailgate a game in college? Did I ever tailgate a game in college? I didn't go to the games. I only tailgated. As we walked around Madison, you could feel the swing state energy, even on game day. Democrats were registering people to vote. There were signs everywhere. And people were repping their candidates. Can you tell us your name? Trump 2020. Tell us your name.

Ethan. Ethan, how old are you? 22. Like Ethan, a young man we met at a big tailgate who told us he's a diesel mechanic. So you mentioned Trump, so I know who you're voting for. Can you tell me what attracts you to Trump? Why? I got no comment, you know. I just...

You're asking me too many questions. I work this morning. I'm a blue collar guy, you know, so I'm a decent mechanic. A mechanic, cool. Yes. Well, I mean, I don't think it's a hard question. What do you like about Trump? He's a stand-up person, you know. He listens to what people have to say to him. And obviously, as a higher-up, you don't always...

do what you say, but you try as hard as you can to do what you say. And him, he's done that. So that's, I mean, I look at

what he has in store for the country. I mean, obviously, I really don't care all too much. I just don't want my overtime to be taxed as much as it is because, you know, this fuck, the inflation's getting crazy. So, yeah. We were talking to some college students, some younger guys about how they're thinking about the election. And one of the things that's really come up is that younger men seem to be drifting a little more towards Trump than in previous years.

If you could guess why men your age, working class men are attracted to Trump maybe more than years previously, why would you think that is? He's a man. He's a man. I don't know. That's really how I see it. That's how I feel. What do you mean by man? I'm not biased for a woman, but men run this country. Blue collar wise. Not, yes, obviously it's always been a man president, but

blue collar wise. Things don't, yes, there's a lot more women than there used to be and electricians, you know, these mechanics, mechanics, HVAC, all that above. But a man's always been there to build skyscrapers, build these houses that these people live in. So why all of a sudden is this woman that, I don't know, I don't keep up with politics. I'm not big on that. That's why these questions are hard for me. But

With that, Ethan started to walk away.

And a couple of young women at the same tailgate who were watching our conversation approached us. They were friends of Ethan's. They were friends of Ethan's.

Do you consider yourself a Democrat, a Republican or anything? Yeah, I'd say Democrat for sure. Yeah. Do you plan to vote? Yeah, I already have. Yeah. Yeah. I imagine you voted...

than for Harris? It did, yep. What would you say is your biggest issue? What matters most to you? I think just the, I would say like gender rights, like women's rights to like make decisions about their own bodies for sure. And I think a lot of it came too from like just the way that Trump's last presidency went and like the way that he would treat people regardless of male, female, like gender,

I just really didn't approve the way he spoke about other people and stuff like that. So I would say that combined with just reproductive rights and stuff like that. He told Trump. Was off-putting. Absolutely.

Yeah, for sure. One question. Obviously, this election is historic in the nature of like in gender specifically. Hillary Clinton lost in 2016. Like, do you think the country is in a different place when it comes to seeing women in leadership? Like, do you think something's different now than maybe it was 2016? Yeah.

Yeah, I would say so, yeah. And I think, like, having a female vice president has, like, kind of proven to people in the country, like, hey, like, heck yeah, women can do this too. Like, kind of strengthened it. Got it. And I think it also kind of...

like, helps in a way that, like, the person who is running for president is that female vice president. So we've kind of gotten to see, like, like, she can handle it. Like, she's kind of proven to us that, like, she's able to, like, stand up to people and stuff like that, I think is, like, definitely helpful. How much of your vote for Harris was, like, where did her being a woman kind of, like, fall in your, like, priorities? Yeah, like, like,

Is it more the policy or reproductive rights? Is it more... Does the identity matter? I'm saying, like, if you could rank the things that most attract you to her, where would you put gender in that list? That's a good question. I would say, like, decently high. There's definitely things that I would rank higher on the list. But, yeah, I...

I think it's kind of like almost like a little bit of redemption from the last time when there was a male versus a female and when the female lost, I think it's like, yeah, I don't know. It was kind of our chance to make history and we kind of blew it a little bit. So kind of like that redemption to like make history and like have a female be president. Do you think she's going to win? I, yeah, that's a very good question.

I have told my roommates multiple times that I'm going to lock myself in a hole on November 5th and just cross my fingers and toes and everything else. Yeah, I have high hopes. Thank you so much. We appreciate y'all's time. At the end of the day, the sun was setting and we wanted to hear from one more group of young women. Because Justice Trump is relying on young men to come out and vote. Democrats and the Harris campaign.

are confident that high turnout among women, and particularly young women, could be decisive come Election Day. So we stopped by a tailgate where some women were playing beer pong, a few of them holding drinks with hotties for Harris koozies. Hi, y'all. How are you? My name's Ested Desana. We're from The New York Times. We're talking to folks about the election. Ested heard it! Oh, my God. Ha ha ha!

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, right here. Like, yeah, we're in Madison today. We're talking to folks about the election. We're doing an episode about young voters and like how folks are feeling about it right now. So we've been here all day talking to people. Yeah. Oh, yes, yes, yes. Great. Oh, can I learn your names? Can you tell me? I'm Emma. Emma, nice to meet you. I'm Sarah. Sarah. Amanda. Amanda.

I'm Cheyenne. Is this the girl? Yes. Are you Democrats, Republicans, Independent? How would you describe yourself politically? Democrat. Democrat. Democrat. Republican. Republican, cool. What would you say is your most important, what's the issue that matters most to you when you think about politics? Or even this election specifically? Reproductive health. Women's reproductive rights. I would agree. When you think about this election, what's it been like?

I'm just happy that there's at least, like, one candidate who's a little bit younger because I was really turned off on the Biden versus Trump again because I was like, I don't want to even engage in this. So now I feel like more people are, like, engaging more because there's at least some people that are, like, younger, like, closer in age to us. So the switching candidate helped you engage more in this election? Yeah, I was totally turned off, like, 100%. Like, everything was, like...

deactivated. I was not paying attention at all. And then what, like the minute that Biden dropped out, I was like, oh my God, I'm back in. Like, I was so excited. Obviously there's like a history making aspect to this election, the prospect of a first woman president. For y'all as Democrats, like is that, how much does that rank in your feelings, like excitement or how much does that identity piece matter?

I feel like I really would have voted for Biden either way. You know, like, Biden versus Trump, I would have voted for Biden. But, like, yeah, once he dropped out and Harris went in, like, that was way more exciting. Like, I think I would have voted for, realistically, whoever the Democratic candidate was either way because I didn't want Trump. But, like, it's exciting. It's awesome. Like, I think it's time. But I think it's not, like, the number one reason for me just because, like,

You know, whether she's a female or a male, like, you know, it's more of like what they're going to do as president. But I think it's exciting. One of the reasons we're here is because a lot of the data says that younger men are getting more conservative as younger women are getting more liberal and the growing kind of gap in terms of gender. I'm wondering, like, when you hear that stat, does that feel true to you in your daily lives? Y'all are 20-somethings, you know, like, does that ring true?

I can't say I've noticed. Maybe it's just the men and women I surround myself with, but no, I can't really say I've noticed a big gap. Trying to think dating-wise too, because it matters to me that you align with my views and you care about my rights too, and it feels like that divide...

I feel like in the past I haven't cared about it, and now it's something that I care about. So I would say I see it more, but not necessarily because it's a greater gap, but because it's something I'm paying more attention to. It's something that has risen for importance for you. Yeah, for sure. I think it's a, especially after the Roe v. Wade getting overturned, like it's such a, it matters. Like they're, the abortion rates matter. Like it's

women's rights matter. And if you don't think they matter, then like, why do you want to date me? Why do you want to be with me? Like, as someone looking for a long-term relationship, getting married X, Y, and Z, like those things are important to me. I'm saying it sounds like if we're tying back to women's

when this became more important for y'all personally, it is Roe v. Wade. It is the retrenchment on abortion rights. Okay. Yeah. When we were talking to some of the guys earlier today, they were specifically saying in this election that, you know, they felt masculinity was a bigger topic. They were talking about the Andrew Tates of the world and Elon Musk and pushing the, like, that type of stuff. Like, do you hear that, like, conversation? Or does the gender gap feel larger? Or is that more myth than reality?

When I'm voting, I don't think about that. When I'm voting, I'm not thinking about, like, what the candidates' views on masculinity are. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's something I talk about with my friends, like, as a cultural topic or just, like, we're just talking about stuff. But when I'm thinking about, like, what's on the ballot and what I'm voting for, that doesn't really play a role for me. Got it. Yeah. I'm, like, the exact opposite. That's good. Yeah, yeah. I mean, like...

I was here in 2016 when Trump won and like the biggest eye opening thing for me at that time was that people knew that he was a sexual assaulter. Like that acts Hollywood tape came out. I'm gonna get a little emotional, I'm sorry, but like they knew that he was a sexual assaulter and they didn't care. And that's still like as somebody who's been on a college campus like this and there's a lot of sexual assault that happens.

And it's just very, for me, troubling that people know that he's sexually assaulted, grabbed women, and they just vote for him anyways. For me, that's always been the biggest driver of how I experience and how I vote, especially when it comes to Trump. Thank you for chatting with us. We really appreciate it.

In the day of tailgating and frat parties, Emma's emotion was a reminder that when we talk about the gender gap in this election, we're talking about more than just the candidate's strategy to win, but the ways that politics shapes our culture, affects our relationships, and can teach people different messages about identity and gender. Even in Madison, the bluest of college towns, Trump's brand of masculinity had clearly filtered down to some of the young men who supported him.

Trump wasn't just their guy. He was a guy's guy. And for people like Ethan and the other young men we talked to, they knew Trump offended many of the women in their lives. And not only was that not a deal breaker, that was the point. That's The Run-Up for Saturday, November 2nd, 2024. There are now just three days till the general election. We'll be back before then to make sure you're ready for what's to come. This podcast is supported by Carvana.

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The Run-Up is reported by me, Ested Herndon, and produced by Elisa Gutierrez, Caitlin O'Keefe, and Anna Foley. It's edited by Rachel Dry and Lisa Tobin, with original music by Dan Powell, Marion Lozano, Pat McCusker, Diane Wong, Sophia Landman, and Alisha Ba'i Tutu. It was mixed by Sophia Landman and fact-checked by Caitlin Love.

Special thanks to Paula Schumann, Sam Dolnick, Larissa Anderson, David Halfinger, Maddie Maciello, Mahima Chablani, Jeffrey Miranda, and Elizabeth Briscoe. Do you have questions about the 2024 election? Email us at therunupatnytimes.com. Or better yet, record your question using the voice memo app in your phone. That email again is therunupatnytimes.com. Thanks for listening, y'all.

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