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It's entirely online and super flexible. Fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a therapist and get started in minutes. Visit betterhelp.com slash runup today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp.com slash runup. So, a couple months ago, I emailed Mark Cuban, one of the most public-facing billionaires in America, asking if he'd talk to me.
And I'd actually been wanting to talk to him for a while. He's vocal about politics publicly, in a way that very few very rich people actually are. Cuban is an entrepreneur who's probably best known as the longtime owner of the NBA's Dallas Mavericks and from his time as a shark on the hit reality show Shark Tank. And these days, he's at work on a healthcare site, an online pharmacy called Cost Plus Drugs.
But since Kamala Harris has entered the presidential race, he's become a kind of surrogate for the Harris campaign, participating in campaign calls, attending her recent economic speech in Pittsburgh, and making the open case for Harris on social media. And a big part of what he's trying to do is convince fellow business-minded people and rich people not to be scared of Harris. So on Friday, when he told me he was ready to talk,
I jumped at the opportunity. Today, why did Mark Cuban go from the sidelines to an open advocate for Harris? And considering many Americans still feel like they haven't learned enough about her policies and beliefs, what does Cuban know that everyone else doesn't? From the New York Times, I'm Ested Herndon. This is The Run-Up.
That's a hell of a laugh. Oh, thank you. That's a demonic laugh there. I'll take that as a positive. However you want to take it. I'm not going to argue with you. Thank you so much for doing this. We really appreciate your time. We know that you are busy and I'm glad we're able to make this work. My pleasure. So Mark Cuban has had an interesting political journey.
In 2015, he originally supported Donald Trump, a fellow reality TV guy. So I'd known him a long time and wasn't a huge fan, but we had done things together. We did an MMA event together, and you can find pictures of me on a daze with him doing the boxing thing and all that. And then we had our go back and forth on Twitter. But he wasn't a politician. And to me, that was a huge opportunity. He liked that Trump was an outsider.
But the support was brief. There was a debate in 2016 that he skipped. Right. And I'm like, this is a great time for you to go to a small business and show your business skills and get to know him. And his response to me was, you know, Mark Cuban and Donald Trump don't go to people's houses and sit at their dinner table. You know, and I remember, you know, asking Donald, what happens when you have to make a decision whether somebody lives or dies?
And he was silent and just didn't want to have a conversation, you know? And so, yeah,
You know, so that kind of pushed me away from him. And honestly, I didn't think he had a chance to win for the longest time. And it got me a lot more nervous when when it became obvious he had a chance to win. You know, you and obviously Trump are kind of uniquely public businessmen and public billionaires at that front. I guess I was curious, like to ask you, where do you see the core differences in how you and Donald Trump approach business and how you approach politics?
a kind of a public face of business success, if you get what I'm asking. I get what you're saying. That's the most insulting question I've ever been asked. That's like saying, you know, I saw you wear a goalie mask. Compare yourself to Hannibal Lecter.
But, you know, it is a unique. Well, let me ask it in a different way. I mean, you're on you're obviously a figure on Shark Tank. Donald Trump has benefited from a public perception of him as a business person that was driven through TV. Does any of that experience, you think, inform how you how people come to Donald Trump's economic message?
Celebrity opens doors, right? The more visibility, the more name recognition you have, the more likely someone will at least be interested in what you have to say. They may not agree with it, but, you know, and the same thing happened with Donald. He was having all kinds of issues, right? Financial issues. And then Mark Burnett put him on The Apprentice and his whole life changed. And, you know, that is just...
The luck of the draw. And some may say, like, I got he was first offered the role of the president in Sharknado 3. And then it went to me because my better acting skills. Maybe if he had gotten it, the world would be a different place. You just never know. But, you know, to your bigger point. Yeah, the door is always open when, you know, the greater recognition you have, the greater people at least listen to you. And particularly on social media, when you have a big following.
You know, it's at least going to get in front of people's faces and you have a chance to say something. Whether people agree with you is, you know, a whole nother issue. In some ways, Cuban sounds like a lot of political independents we've met on the road, unsatisfied with both parties, interested in Trump during his 2016 run, but increasingly over him come 2020 and especially 2024. Where were you when this race was Biden versus Trump?
Did you know what you were going to do? Yeah, I knew I was going to vote for a ham sandwich over Donald Trump. But even though he planned to vote for Biden and the Democrats, he wasn't exactly giving them a ringing endorsement. I even said publicly if Joe Biden was given his last rights, I'd still vote for him. That all changed once Kamala Harris got in the race.
How did that transition happen for you? And what was the moment when you decided, I want to get more directly involved in this race? Well, just, you know, once Kamala entered the race, I knew her some. I'd had lunch before with her and knew a lot of people around her. So I was cautiously optimistic. And then as I spoke to those people I knew and heard her speak, I got more optimistic. And then as people reached out to me to ask me about, you know, what,
feedback I could give in terms of business policy, that got me really excited, right? To have somebody who really was open-minded, wasn't an ideologue, looked like she wanted to go towards the center from a business perspective, at least. And so I was wide open to that. And that just started a string of conversations. Those conversations were part of the reason I wanted to talk to Mark Cuban.
Because now, he's delivering a very specific message on behalf of the Harris campaign. He's the guy making the case that Harris should be trusted over Trump when it comes to the economy, even in the view of the billionaire class.
Poll after poll continues to say the Americans trust Donald Trump or Republicans a little more on the economy. But outside of what I see as your personal view, why do you think that is? Well, because it takes time, right? Being in business, if I've taken over companies before where the product was good, but you've got to get the word out. And so she replaced the CEO who got retired by the board of directors.
And so now it's her turn to say, okay, these first 45 days, I've gone around and introduced myself to as many stakeholders as I can, potential voters. And in doing so, you see the trend in her numbers. She went from being way behind. She went from huge unfavorability ratings. She went from being 20, 25 points behind in who can deal with the economy to being 11 and following. So that tells you the trend is her friend, right? That she's doing the right things in order to communicate that message.
He's just got to continue to do those things. I think where I disagree with some folks in the political chatter class, right, is no one wins elections by winning demographic groups, right? You win elections by winning states, enough electoral votes, and getting enough voters.
And to do that, she has to introduce herself because people didn't really know her. And that's been her greatest strength. Sometimes, you know, the brand is as important as the product itself. You know, Joe Biden, I think where he failed miserably, and I've said this before when he was the candidate, you know how they say, don't sell the steak, sell the sizzle? Yeah. Right. Joe Biden wanted to tell you what cow the steak came from. Right. And how they cut it and then how they shipped it. And nobody cares about that shit. Right. Right.
Kamala is not a great salesperson, just to be honest, right? But she's a good salesperson. She's gonna tell you that here's what I think is important to you. And that's what good salespeople do, right? And she's gonna tell you, let me put myself in your shoes and show you how I can help you. And in order to communicate that message, you have to get in front of as many people as you can. And I think that's what she's doing. It's not about how many interviews you do or which questions you've asked. It's when you're in a rally like in Pittsburgh
or you're in, you know, North Carolina, or you're in Georgia, and you feel the energy in the room, and people respond to that energy, right? It becomes almost like a team sport, right? When you walk into a great game, and you feel the energy, you need to have that energy, because that energy conveys trust, that energy conveys interest. And when she speaks, that's what she communicates. Because that's what this election is about is trust, right? You know, do I trust Kamala Harris? Because
Because, you know, I need her to do these things for me. So how would you describe Harris's brand? What would you say as she has landed on as the pitch to maybe your moderate or centrist or someone you represent? And then on the contrast, what would we describe as Trump's brand? So I'd say Kamala is more like peak Starbucks. Explain that.
So people would, you know, you'd go into Starbucks and you sit and you have a coffee, you make friends, you sit in your laptop, you feel comfortable, right? You understand that you're meant to feel comfortable by going into Starbucks. And they opened as many places and you felt comfortable no matter where you were. If there was a Starbucks, that was a taste of home, right? You know what you're going to get. And it's a familiar and comforting feeling. Exactly right.
Donald Trump is Trump watches, Trump steaks, Trump silver medallions, whatever he's trying to sell at the moment. You don't sit next to Donald Trump and think, OK, you know, I know exactly what I'm going to get. And that's a huge difference between the two. With Kamala, what she says is what she says. Right. It's not difficult to understand. With Donald, he says something and everybody tries to explain what he really meant by what he said.
And that contrast is very stark. And the way you convey that contrast is going and talking to the people. Every rally is a new pop-up Starbucks.
I like the analogy. You know, back in 2019, when Harris was running for president, I covered her for The Times, and she was really making a concerted effort to cast herself as someone who was tough on corporations and business excess and make overt appeals to the kind of party's progressive wing on that front. I also wanted to ask about health care, considering that's an issue that I know you're really focused on, and she was someone who had endorsed Bernie Sanders' Medicare for All plan. Now, we know that she's somewhat reversed some of those decisions now or has said she's
that her values haven't changed, but maybe some policy specifics has. But you've been someone who's really making the case for her publicly as someone who is not going to kind of drift into the far left wing, but as someone you trust as making a kind of concerted centrist administration. I guess I'm wondering what has given you that confidence? And I get that you feel that she's better than Trump, but what's giving you the confidence that she would govern as a pro-business president? Right.
Well, I mean, again, it comes somewhat to trust, but you look, you know, you go from being an AG and then senator for the People's Republic of California, right? You have to be far left in order to fit in the political system there. And then all of a sudden she comes in and she has three and a half years of experience of what it takes to support the American people. By definition, she has to be supportive of her boss, the president, right? Mm-hmm.
But she's learned, and in that learning, to be able to come out and stand on her own. But I think the most important thing that people are missing is, she hasn't said this, and her team hasn't communicated, but I believe this, she's learned a lot from Donald Trump and what's worked for him over the last 10 years. What do you mean? If you go back to 2015 Republican Party,
It doesn't exist any longer, right? It is gone. Donald Trump is the Republican Party. The Republican Party is Donald Trump's family business now, right? And now with Kamala, I think the Democratic Party has fallen in line behind her, that she now is in charge of the Democratic Party and able to adapt things to what she wants. And I think she realized, in the sense I get from talking to the people around her and her team—
is that by going to the center, she can help. Her core value is helping the greatest number of people. When you're extreme in either way, by definition, right, you're finite in the number of people you're going to support, and there's going to be a lot of people who aren't going to agree with you. When you come to the center, you might have issues and you might have policies you don't agree with, but generally, there's a comfortable feeling with most of them. And I think she realizes that, and she's made this her party.
So should she be saying that? Because she hasn't really communicated more directly, hey, I've learned and I have changed from that thing. I mean, she's kind of tried to make kind of everything for everyone case. We talked to actually Bernie Sanders on this exact point. And he's someone who's making the argument that the Kamala Harris administration would be one that has like kind of a robust populism that progressives would have a voice in. And so I guess I'm asking, how can a Mark Cuban economy and a Bernie Sanders economy both exist under the same
It seems like both sides are pitching to me that the Kamala Harris administration would be one of them. I hear you loud and clear, right? Yeah. But one was a month ago and you haven't heard about it since. That's fair. You're saying she's tacking towards you closer than she's tacking towards them. Right. I mean, she's giving economy speech after economy speech. She's talking about the things because if the number one issue is economy,
And the way to solve people and make people feel good about what she's doing is to talk business and talk economy and talk opportunity. And that's what she's talked about. And I think you have to be in the middle to do that. I hear that. You know, you endorse Nikki Haley in the Republican primary. And one question I wanted to ask, and it's kind of to get at the idea of
of what's driving your support. If she was the Republican nominee, would you still kind of be supporting Harris in this way? I asked to kind of say, like, is this about the affirmative advocacy for Harris and her policies? Or is this about, you know, rejecting Trump and his policies? So if it was Nikki Haley versus Joe Biden, I probably would have voted for Nikki Haley. Okay. Given that...
what I expect her policies would have been, right? Okay. So, you know, and I'm socially liberal, but conservative fiscally. And so it depends on abortion and those things, because that's important to me. But, you know, with Vice President Harris, I think she's truly on point with our mission. So this is an anti-Trump vote for me. I really like where she's going. I mean...
She's very thorough. She's very precise. She's very well thought out. She takes an idea. She evaluates it. She may agree or may not agree with you, right? But you know it's going to be completely and thoroughly thought through. And to me, that's a huge thing for a potential president because I don't want somebody who's impetuous, and spurious, and specious for that matter. I'm throwing out some big words for me. No, I like it. I like it. I'm like SAT week. Right? Why this came to my head, I don't know. But...
But you get the point, right? I don't want, you know, the only given in the presidency is that you don't know what's next. And I want somebody who thinks things through rather than being impetuous. Okay, I hear that. Or impulsive. Impulsive is the better word there. Do you think that there's been enough work done to make folks who are maybe fiscally conservative but open to voting for a Democrat
feel comfortable with this candidate? And if not, like, what do you think the next steps or next message or needs to be to get other people to the place that you are? Because theoretically, if the undecideds, if the center kind of land where you are, she probably is in good shape for this election. So how does she get those folks there? Rep.
Repetition, just repeating her core principles, her policies, and letting people know that this is better business for the country of the United States of America. Donald Trump is the new Oprah of tax cuts. You get a tax cut, you get a tax cut, you get a tax cut, right?
But then on the other side of his mouth, he talks about reducing the deficit. Those two things don't work together. Right. Whereas with Kamala, she's like, OK, we have to be more aware of the deficit. Right. Cutting interest rates will help. Hopefully the Fed keeps on along those lines. But increasing taxes is going to reduce the deficit. I mean, her meeting with all these different businesses from VCs to investors to Wall Street to bankers, the little companies, the big companies.
That's huge, right? That's where we start to communicate because then as you get these individuals who are in the business community talking about those things, that conveys the confidence that she's able to do this. You are not seeing that from the Donald Trump side. Mm-hmm.
The presidency you're laying out as for the hopes of Harris, it's kind of the same premise that Biden gave in 2020, that he would govern more from the center. I guess in retrospect, you know, I guess I'll ask it the inverse of Bernie Sanders, because he was saying that Joe Biden ended up governing from more of a progressive perspective than he anticipated. And he liked that, I guess, from your perspective. Was Biden more progressive than expected? And that was a bad thing? That was a bad thing. Yeah, I think.
He wasn't a great communicator. And obviously, for all the reasons he's not in the race anymore, there's a lot of reasons potentially why. But I thought him, you know, not communicating well about business or to business people really hurt him. I can't tell you how many people I've talked to since she got in the race who are really successful business people who said, I tried to talk to Biden.
And nobody returned my call. Whereas now I connect them to her immediate team and they're getting callbacks. They're getting meetings. They're getting phone calls. And I think that
The shift is enormous, and I think it really hurt Joe. You know, and I wanted to ask one more about your health care specifically. You can ask me 10 on cost plus drugs. You know, I know it's a response to the kind of volatile health care system where people often can't afford the medications that they need. But one thing that I thought was interesting is like health care has not come up that a ton yet.
between the two candidates policy-wise. I guess, what do you make of that? And also, like, since Harris has backed off from the kind of previous iteration of healthcare policy that she articulated while running, what do you see as her healthcare vision? Do you feel confidence in it?
Yeah, so two things there. One, I've talked a lot to them about this, right? In particular, what I've learned with COTS Plus drugs, that transparency reduces prices. And I'm not going to say she's taking all this. She'll decide what she's going to do or not do.
But what I've told them is by introducing very simple transparency on the cost of medications and the cost of care beyond just listing it, but making sure that anything the middlemen do is fully transparent so everybody can compare notes. By doing that, you could quickly cut the cost of medications 25 to 30 percent and health care costs by 40 percent or more. And I've conveyed that to her to say with her team to say that.
Fighting inflation and fighting the economic realities that some people are facing, they may not be in a good position right now. The best way to reach those people and cut their costs, bam, out of pocket like that is through their medication and healthcare costs. And if she does that, I think to go back to your earlier questions, that could be the swaying element that makes people think,
okay, my bread costs a little bit more cost are up 19 and a half percent since January of 2021. But my medication costs are going to decline 30%. And I think that could be the difference maker in her communicating that she is going to save people money, she is going to reduce their costs, she is going to make the cost of living lower, she's just doing it, you know, in a better way than has been proposed before.
Interesting. So you feel, I'm curious about your level of confidence, though. You have a unique insight to a demographic that I think is going to be critical in this election. Not only people who consider themselves, you know, fiscally conservative, socially liberal, but also a donor class of folks who are successful in business who talk to you. But, you know, if we look at numbers or such, we're still talking about a razor thin election. What is your confidence level that this doesn't end with another Trump term?
I mean, I don't know. I'm not going to try to guess, right? I'm not going to jinx her one way or the other. But I think she's just got to
From a business guy perspective, the trend is your friend. If you're doing something right in your companies and the numbers reinforce that what you're doing is the right thing to do, you don't make a left turn or a right turn, right? You keep on doing more of the same. I mean, look at it from Trump's perspective. He went from a commanding what seemed like an insurmountable lead against another opponent to now being a dogfight. And that's not a good reflection on him. Yeah.
You know, he's got his hardcore following, but there's still a lot of undecided people here that I think can make the difference. And I think if she keeps on doing what she's doing, which is going out, doing rallies, communicating and incrementally distributing information. Right. Because every speech she gives, she goes a little bit different topic, says a little bit more, throws in, you know, a couple of the old favorites and then, you know, keeps on moving forward. I think that's good because it keeps on giving people new information that might connect to them.
You never know what the one thing is that's going to connect to a potential voter or a potential customer, right? And so I think if she keeps on increasing the amount of information she conveys, she keeps on doing interviews. And I'm not saying, look, you've got to do an interview with everybody and dig into deep
personal questions because I don't think most undecided voters are high information voters. I think there are more people who are emotional voters because if they're high information, there's enough information that people can go on and get to make a decision already. Right. And so going out there and meeting as many people as you can, where they are in their states, in their cities, talking to them, people, you know,
will start to understand that she's trying to be inspirational. One thing that's sticking out to me, though, because you kind of hear people say now that they don't think they're getting a sense of where she's ideologically landing from the last month or so. I hear you saying that you feel like you have gotten an increasing sense, and it's one that's more of a moderate candidate, and it's one that's actually owning that lane more than other people are kind of giving her credit for. Is that a fair characterization of your view? Yeah, no, for sure, because ideologues talk about
The party talk right here's who we are. This is what we believe in and that's it She's got her core values, but problem solvers talk to people and they say okay. We have people who are suffering in this country What do we do we want to see more businesses started? Oh, what a great idea Let's increase the child tax credit for your first year because not only can it help you with daycare But if you're in a business you can bring somebody in to watch your infant that's just been born, right? And that allows you to go back to work sooner
So she's coming up with solutions to problems, whereas Donald just says, we're going to cut, you know, we're going to do 10%, no 20%, no 60% tariffs. He's not problem solving, right? He's just going out there. He's an ideologue. Being outside of that, like, ideological rigidity should be seen as a strength for her in terms of a problem solver. Yes.
In my head, like the billionaire class would break Republican, would break Trump supporters. Is that tax cuts? Like, is that like, how should I understand the fact that you're laying this out and it feels very clear to you, you're advocating folks around you, things like that. But it does seem as it seemed more of an outlier than the rule. Well, so what's driving the rule?
So first, don't judge me by my wallet. Right. And I think that applies to everybody. When I was poor, you weren't going to listen to me. But now and I don't you know, my friends aren't billionaires per se. But when I do talk to wealthy people, I don't think they think like that. Right. I think they look to see what are the things that are important to them. And that falls into two categories. They're a single issue. It may be Israel. It may be abortion. It may be.
the border, it could be any number of things. There may be tariffs. And so if they're single issue, that's just who they are. And what I try to do is say, for all those things I mentioned, let me get you in touch with her team. Maybe her perspective on the border is not what you think. She is not Joe Biden. This is her party. It's not the Joe Biden party anymore. And then there's a second category, which are
I think we can manipulate that other guy, right? If I can get close to him with donations, I can get him to listen to me and do what I want because I know he doesn't get into the details. And so the wealthy class, the billionaire class, if you will, either they feel they can influence him because he doesn't really have strong positions or deep thought through positions or –
They think there's a significant benefit for the one issue that's important to them. But I don't think I think the misunderstanding is it's just taxes and money all the time. Yeah, but it's not it's not just that. But the switch, to be clear, and this is like my just my last point, the switch has allowed you an opportunity to make a case to them to say, hey, go talk to them.
And there is a new level of openness. She says it all the time. I want to talk to businesses top to bottom. I want to hear the best ideas. I think she said it in her speech in Pittsburgh. I want to hear the best ideas because that's what makes this country better. I want there to be more entrepreneurs. All it takes is one to change the game and just make everything better for us. Whereas Donald Trump, when was the last time you heard him talk about entrepreneurs?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, there's no question that Trump specifics are lacking in all the categories. It could also be a media challenge because, you know, you're asking all these questions about someone's plan on one side when obviously on the other side, he's benefited from the lack of those things, too, in a way that we also have to call it.
And to his credit, he's a good salesperson. That's why he's selling watches and sneakers and everything else, right? He is a really good salesperson. But not all salespeople are good at following through on delivering the product. It's helping me see a kind of Shark Tank vision of this election. You got a salesperson on one side versus maybe a better product on the other side. And it's somewhere about making one of those matter more to elect. Right. And there's different kinds of salespeople, right?
Like people always tell, how do you become a great salespeople? I always say you put yourself in the shoes of your prospects, your customers. You ask them what they need and how then you show them how your product or service can help them get there. That's exactly what she does. Does that mean she's a great salesperson? She can sell watches. She's not going to have the common watch. She's not going to have the common commemorative coin. Right. Donald Trump, you know, can sell the proverbial ice to Eskimos.
He's that good a salesperson, but he's not the type of salesperson who when, you know, when the software is done being written, it works.
I'm going to ask about a couple of issues. Along with Ro Khanna, you led a business roundtable between leaders in the crypto space and the Biden administration. And you've been vocal about the administration's attitudes towards that. I wondered what you thought was the possibilities of a potential Harris administration in this arena, because I thought it's been interesting that she's made some specific overtures that feel a little different than what Biden was doing.
Oh, yeah. I think Joe Biden just didn't care one way or the other. And he didn't think it was very important. I think what Vice President Harris has learned is for young men in particular, they're not in the traditional banking system. You know, if you're a Gen Z, you're not going to the local bank branch and opening up account and letting your savings account on 0.2 percent. And you've never written a check. You wouldn't even know what a check is, what you're supposed to do with a check. Yeah, you got it. You sign up for an app. You get Robin Hood. You get Coinbase.
And that's millions of young men that do that. I think she's recognized that. Yeah. And she wants to be so inclusive that how can you not include those guys, you know, in particular that have their entire net worth built into crypto like crypto or not like crypto. That is important to that whole community. And I think she started to recognize that. And that's really what's brought her to where she is today.
That answer kind of leads me to something I was thinking about what you said earlier, which is the kind of demographic of young men in general, which has been a real focus of this campaign. You bring up kind of overlap with Trump at the MMA event. I know that some of the Trump folks have attacked you as someone supporting Harris as being kind of like insufficiently masculine. There's all of that language. For the record, you just flexed. I guess
I want to ask someone about that. Like, how do you see a kind of changing culture and what has been, you know, I think you're someone who people look at as someone who's really balanced a lot of interest at once. Do you see your role as projecting a different type of business success or a different type of success? No, I don't give a shit about that.
No, no, no. You don't think about any of that. No, no, no. Look, when people try to make personal attacks like that, right, or judge people like that, that's a reflection of them. I don't care. But it's also a byproduct of social media. Elon bought Twitter and he tweaked the algorithm to benefit himself, right? And he pushes it out. Lots of misinformation, but that's his game to play. So this whole thing about naming and shaming in one way or the other works really well in social media. And I think that's why you see so much of it.
But I personally don't care. Okay. You mentioned Elon Musk. Well, I know you've had some public black and forks with. Do you worry about like a back and forth with the world's richest man? No.
No, no, no. I mean, look, he's really thin skin. I like the guy generally. I think he's one of the greatest entrepreneurs of all time. No disrespect for what he does on the business side. Now, but that's not unusual for somebody who's all in as a programmer, tech, business guy, and have no social skills whatsoever, right? Or very minimal people skills. And the good news is that, you know,
He's easy to mess with. So how should I think about the tweets? Is this a trolling effort of Elon Musk or is this winning votes for Kamala Harris? Both. I mean, look, both. Social media, even though the media isn't so social anymore, you've got to have a little bit of fun. And so messing with Elon, he likes to mess with me. I don't care one way or the other. But, you know, there's a certain fun to it knowing who he is and what he represents and that this is his platform.
When you go on Twitter, this is his baby and I'm walking to the front door of his house. Look, I'm not calling him names and I'm not cast aspersions. I'm just trying to hit him with facts, right? Because I think that's his kryptonite. Just hit him with facts and he doesn't like it, my perspective. But beyond that, when somebody with a big platform says something that just is not true, right? There's data to show otherwise.
I like to look it up because it helps me learn, right? So like today, I was digging up all this stuff on the border and just tweeted something to somebody about it. And so I gave them facts. I gave them data. Of course, we'll deny it. But then I asked a simple question. What do you think he needs to do for deportations?
And if they ever debate, hopefully that's what she holds them accountable for. Because what's he going to do? Get the National Guard or local police just to go banging on doors and dragging people out of their house? And what do you think those communities are going to do in response?
You think they're just going to say, take my mom, take my dad, take my aunt, take my uncle? There's going to be wholesale hell to pay and just pushing them to try to get somebody to think that through. I would be remiss if I didn't ask this. I mean, I heard some reporting that said that you were, you know, thought about or would like to be considered for SEC head. I hear, know that you have flirted with the idea of running for president in the past. Should we think about your increasing political openness as the beginning of the Mark Cuban politics era? No, no, no, no.
I put that out there on the SEC because I wanted to fuck with Gary Gensler, right? Because I think he could cost her the election. So I wanted to get that in everybody's head, including his, because he doesn't respect, you know, the things we talked about, the demographics we talked about that use crypto for their net worth. He doesn't respect them. And so I wanted, that was a backdoor way of saying, okay, let's put this back on the table and remember this. But no, you're not going to see me in politics. Cost plus drugs. I mean, you know, when it's all said and done, costplusdrugs.com,
That's hopefully going to be my legacy. You know, I screwed up the entire health care system for the better so that everybody could start affording their health care and their medications. To me, that's more important than having a job in an administration. You know, this will come out on Tuesday. So this is partly why I asked this question. Are you going to watch the vice presidential debate? I don't care. I really don't care. You don't care?
I really don't care. Just because, you know, VPs aren't who people are who matter most? Or why don't you care? Well, yeah. I mean, yeah, there's the heartbeat away thing, right? But beyond that, they're already picked. We can't change it, right? There's nothing we can do there. And, I mean...
What do they do? I mean, what is it that Mike Pence said in his VP debate, right, with the vice president that changed the course of history or really had an impact? And you go before that, what Biden said, whatever it is, nobody remembers. Right.
I am with you that it's not usually an electoral point, but we are in a moment that should show how VPs end up mattering. Obviously, Harris ascended and that all of that. There were so many questions kind of last year about whether that was the right choice or not. I was just wondering, like, whether any of the number twos impact some of your decision making. Or is this for you a question of Harris and Trump?
this is Harris versus Trump. That's the whole election. Who do you trust? Because, you know, the Republicans are going to say you had three and a half years, which is not necessarily true when you're second in command, right? And you can't trust her. You know, why do you believe her now when you didn't believe her then? And it's the same with Trump, right? You know, you've been lying about everything you're saying. You're going to say you did this and you didn't do it. Why do I trust you? That's what this election is about. Who can generate the most trust to the most number of people and get them to vote for you? Whether Tim Walz
I think he'll be, you know, the reason to watch it, he'll tell some great stories, right? And you want to see if J.D. Vance steps in something, right? But you also know J.D. Vance is going to be super intellectual, and it'll be interesting to see if that works against him. I think, you know, if I have a hope for Tim, it's that he just comes across as a good, respectable guy.
And he doesn't take the bait for anything because, you know, J.D. Vance is just going to try to just zing him, zing him, zing him, zing him, zing him like he's in a school debate class. And, you know, I'm sure the governor has been through that before. My last question is, what is your next couple of months look like and how much of Mark Cuban's day to day is now dedicated to politics and this presidential race? Well, I want to help for the next 45 days or 40 days or whatever's left. Right. Because I want to see her win. I think it's important to the country that she does win. Beyond that.
It's costplusdrugs.com. My kids are in school trying to spend as much time as I can with them and going to Mavs games. You know, my life hasn't changed all that much. You're like, we got Clay Thompson. There's new opportunities now. Right, let's go.
Clint's such a great guy, too. Him and Kai and Luca. Thank you so much for your time. We really appreciate it. I'm going to ask our producer, Anna, to ask if we missed anything. And also, I should say, like, Anna was a big part of making this happen. Anna's a big Shark Tank fan. Appreciate that. Yeah, thank you so much. Are we good? Yeah. You have a great rest of your day. Yeah, thank you. Appreciate it, guys. Thank you. Have a great day. Thank you. You too, guys. So, like I said to Mark Cuban, one of my big takeaways from our conversation was
is somewhat related to this open question of defining Kamala Harris and what she believes in. He thinks her ideology is clear, that Harris is no left-winger, and that, particularly when it comes to the economy, she'd be more open to business and billionaires than the Biden administration ever was. Which is the exact opposite of what I heard from progressive leaders, who cited things like Harris' selection of running mate Tim Walz,
as a sign that the left would have a voice in the Harris-led Democratic Party. Tonight, Walz and Republican vice presidential candidate J.D. Vance will face off in what could be the final debate of the 2024 cycle. We'll be watching from Tim Walz's former congressional district in southern Minnesota, but we'll also be listening to see which version of Kamala Harris does Tim Walz present.
The Progressive Ally, as described by Bernie Sanders. Or the pro-business moderate, as described by Mark Cuban. See you Thursday. The Run-Up is reported by me, Ested Herndon, and produced by Elisa Gutierrez, Caitlin O'Keefe, and Anna Foley. It's edited by Rachel Dry and Lisa Tobin, with original music by Dan Powell, Marion Lozano, Pat McCusker, Diane Wong, Sophia Landman, and Alicia Baitube. It was mixed by Chris Wood.
and fact-checked by Caitlin Love. Special thanks to Paula Schumann, Sam Dolnick, Larissa Anderson, David Halfinger, Maddie Maciello, Mahima Chablani, Nick Pittman, and Jeffrey Miranda. Do you have questions about the 2024 election? Email us at therunupatnytimes.com. Or better yet, record your question using the Voice Memo app on your phone, and then send us the file. That email again is therunupatnytimes.com.
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