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Three days into the Democratic National Convention, one thing is clear.
Democrats are united behind their new nominee. And Kamala Harris has the Democratic Party, from Bernie Sanders. We're laying the groundwork for Kamala Harris to become our next president. Barack and Michelle Obama. America, hope is making a comeback. Thank you.
thinking they can win. In fact, the unity is such that after months of worrying about whether this week's convention would be upended by protests over Israel's war in Gaza, so far, things feel quiet. With that in mind, we went to go find the people who were supposed to be causing Joe Biden the biggest problems, the young people who came to Chicago to protest his foreign policy.
and the uncommitted delegates who plan to spend this week pressuring the party from the inside? Does anger over Gaza still pose an electoral threat? And how are Biden's biggest critics thinking about Kamala Harris? From The New York Times, I'm Astead Herndon. This is The Run-Up. Before we even arrived in Chicago, it was clear this Democratic convention would be defined by themes of unity. But I wanted to test how far that unity extended.
So, along with my colleagues, Alisa and Kaitlyn,
I decided to go to a place where the vibe would be a little different. Okay, Astead, where are we today? We are in your hometown of Chicago. And yours. We're in Union Park, which is near the United Center. And we are at like a big protest action where folks are challenging Democrats specifically around their policy in Gaza. A protest down the street from the convention center. And
And so, you know, we're five, six blocks from the convention center, but it's kind of worlds away, you know? I think there's a very united Democratic Party there that is frankly jubilant at their, like, current levels of enthusiasm. And what we hear here is a lot of people who are not only, I think, um...
kind of raising a moral question around the party. They're vowing in some cases not to vote for them specifically because of this. The people there were a slice of the electorate that's been noisy and uncomfortable for Democrats, interrupting campaign events, pressuring elected officials, and demanding the party adopt a new policy toward Israel and its ongoing military campaign.
But like always, we were most focused on the election in November. How is this group thinking about the Democrats' new nominee? And does the change at the top of the ticket make them any more likely to vote blue? We split up to ask people in the crowd about that.
What do you feel about Kamala Harris? Are you planning on voting for her? If she comes out and says that she's going to continue supporting this genocide by not standing by an arms embargo, by not standing by a ceasefire, by not pressuring Netanyahu to stop doing what he's doing, probably not. But if she makes message that she will, then I probably will.
At first, it was refreshing to see that, you know, our coalitions and our movements are actually making a difference, that they're semi-listening to us. But at the same time, like, I understand that she is still a part of the regime. And it is a little disheartening to hear her commentary that had given us this sort of lift for a moment and now, like, dismissing our calls that we thought we would now be heard and obviously we're not. Yeah.
Are you thinking about voting for her or are you not sure? I voted in the primary as uncommitted in Wisconsin and now I've moved to Chicago and I haven't really decided. I think it's going to be a really interesting couple of months to figure that out. Does Kamala definitely have your vote? Yeah, she has my vote. I mean, I don't really have a choice. Project 2025 does not exist.
It's not in the interest of myself or any of my children or descendants, so I have to take a stand against that. But I haven't really, I know she's created a lot of fanfare, but I haven't really heard that much of her policies yet, so I don't know what to really think about. She hasn't really had to because, you know, people are just, it's a wave of excitement.
I feel like seeing her recent rallies, it does feel more hopeful to me than I felt about politics in like a really long time, I feel like. There's also like...
As much as I prioritize foreign policy, there's so many other things that I'm worried, that are so, like, imminent right now that I'm, like, really concerned about. Just as, like, a queer person, a woman, obviously. Like, I live in Chicago for school, but I'm not from a place that's super liberal and Democrat. So I can kind of see the other end of it. I think...
some of the things she said about she does want to ceasefire and to, you know, bring hostages back but have a ceasefire deal. I appreciate that. I would love to see how it's put in action. I feel like a lot of the times I can't put too much stake in what presidential nominees are saying on their campaign trails. But I do feel more hopeful with her than I did with Biden. I definitely feel like right now with the risk, voting for her over a third-party candidate
just understanding the way the two-party system works would feel smarter to me. Is that what you were thinking of doing before the swap happened, voting third party? I was, potentially. I was debating it, and it was also before a lot of the campaigning started, and I kind of heard more of what the Republican Party or conservative ends were talking about for their plan for the next four years, and that concerned me a lot. So I feel like
Yeah, the third party was definitely more in my peripheral before Kamala Harris got placed as the new nominee. Most of the protesters we talked to were clearly wrestling with the impact of the candidate switch.
But that wasn't exactly the message we were hearing from the stage. All throughout this week, Genocide Joe, Killer Kamala, Baby Killer Blinken, and hundreds of other war criminals are here in Chicago to celebrate themselves. Speakers made a point to insult Democrats in explicit terms. We made it clear that we will not be casting any bells.
for anybody who oversees the genocide, the indiscriminate murder of Palestinian children, families, and futures. In some of the biggest applause lines were ones where speakers vowed to not vote for any Democrat until their policy demands were met. So, before we left, we wanted to speak to someone who had been involved in organizing the event.
Can you introduce yourself and tell me what you do? What exactly was the strategy here? Yeah, so my name is Gemini Null. Gemini said plans were in place long before October 7th.
Oh, yeah. From as soon as they announced that the DNC was going to be in Chicago. I got involved last October, but I know that they've been planning this for over a year. Specifically around this issue or how what was but because of October, is that times with like October 7th or what?
So actually, no. We had planned this before October 7th and the original messaging was, you know, defend LGBTQIA plus rights, the environment, ending police crimes and police violence, immigration rights, women and other oppressed genders rights. That's what the
the coalition was originally organized around and then October 7th happened, right? And so that's when we were like, hey, this is probably the most important issue in the world right now. And the U.S. is directly responsible and has been for decades in the genocide of the Palestinian people. So that's when we made that the central call to action of the coalition. Okay, so it shifted from being kind of like a broader group of
progress over causes to being focused on this one in response to what happened. That's right. That's right. You know, you mentioned kind of the range of issues you all were focused on before and now kind of centralizing around a Palestinian cause. Like how representative do you think that is of, you know, working class people broadly or young people broadly? Like it does seem as if that focus, while I understand why you all have made it a priority, are we sure that that's representative of the larger group?
That's a good question. Because I think when you look at the numbers, right, if you poll people what their biggest issue are, they usually say, like, the economy, right? Yeah. It's like, I don't think Palestine even makes, like, the top three. Or even some of the issues y'all had previously as priorities. Yeah, yeah. The focus is interesting to me. Yeah. And the reason...
The reason that we focus on this is because we see this as kind of like the root cause for a lot of the other stuff, right? It is like the United States sending billions and billions of my dollars, of taxpayer dollars overseas to fight, to cause a genocide for a place that I've never been, right? Probably will never be. That is one of the reasons we don't have healthcare, right?
That is why we don't have all of the other stuff that we could have. It's because the super wealthy are fighting war that benefits them, and it comes at our expense. Guys, one more question. We were talking to some uncommitted delegates, you know, folks who are DNC members who are trying to use their position from the inside to kind of shift how the party is thinking about this issue specifically. You know, obviously you all are taking a different tact, kind of outside pressure. Can you give me a sense of like,
what you think about that argument that some of those folks make to us that, like, they think that the way to kind of shift the party is to go, you know, kind of rules, bylaws, fight the place to be... Yeah, yeah. ...to shift it from the inside. I'm curious about that, how you view... Like, do you all view yourselves as working in tandem or no? No, yeah, definitely. We...
Like I said, these are tools. Working from within is a tool. I do not think you are going to be able to change things so much from the inside that you fix the whole thing, right? So like, if there was somebody doing that inside who agreed with my views and supported me,
Great. I think that's a good thing. Again, I emphasize it's not the most important because, like, why is that person in there? Why are they doing that? It's because they've seen that there are tens of thousands of people taking to the streets for these issues because they have learned and they have seen that this is what people care about and hopefully it's what they care about, too. So I see those things as maybe more related than maybe some people would think. Yeah. Thank you so much. Yeah, I appreciate your time. Gemini said she will most likely vote in November.
But it would depend on if Harris breaks from Biden's rhetoric and policy. After the break, we talked to one person working inside the party to make sure that happens.
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The day after the protest, Elisa and I went to sit down with someone who was also focused on pushing the administration on Gaza. My name is Abbas Alouia, and I am an uncommitted delegate from Michigan, and I'm one of the founders of our uncommitted movement. A lifelong Democrat, he's worked on Capitol Hill, and now, as a delegate, has spent months trying to push the Democratic Party from the inside. ♪
So, I wanted to ask him many of the same questions we asked the protesters earlier in the week. Has the switch from Biden to Harris changed the political calculus of some of Biden's biggest critics? And where does the uncommitted vote go now that Biden's campaign is done?
I was going to ask for an update on the state of kind of uncommitted movement. It seems as if some stuff has changed in the last several months, even as the administration has shifted some of its rhetoric around its relationship to Netanyahu. We hear things like ceasefire mentioned on the DNC stage last night.
For you, what is the specific policy ask you're looking for from the administration? And what are you looking for from Vice President Harris? Is the standard still as high that you think it could risk a loss if she doesn't kind of provide the details you're talking about? I think all those are good questions. I'm glad to see President Biden yesterday mentioned a ceasefire. I'm also deeply hurt by President Biden and hope that he changes course, hope that he takes this opportunity to change.
longstanding U.S. policy of not putting any conditions on the weapons that are being sent to the Israeli military, especially because the Israeli military's campaign right now is just so flagrant, so disgusting, so unimaginable that 16,000 children, babies, have been blown up into a million pieces. And so it's a good thing that President Biden is saying ceasefire. It took our movement for him to say that, to be clear.
But it's also exposing a very clear hypocrisy with President Biden saying ceasefire while continuing to send weapons that are being used to kill children. So an arms embargo is the policy ask? I mean, I want to be, I and uncommitted organizers want to be understood on multiple levels. On a human level, I want it clear.
to be known that it's a very reasonable ask for us to want our president to stop sending weapons that are killing people we love, that are killing civilians. That's a very reasonable policy ask. And because we're good organizers and we're good political strategists and we're reading the room, we know that
No president has ever supported an arms embargo in the case of Israel. And we know that Vice President Harris's ascendancy in the context of her being a vice president and not being able to adopt a policy on foreign policy in particular that is very different than what President Biden does. We know that the things that we're pushing for, we have to be smart about what we're asking. And so with that, we continue to ask presidents.
President Biden, who has the power now to implement an arms embargo. We feel like that's an urgent ask. We feel like that's a moral ask. And we know that uncommitted voters specifically voted uncommitted because they want to see a change in the policy. And so now that Vice President Harris is at the top of the ticket, that concern remains the same. And so if Vice President Harris can't endorse an arms embargo unilaterally because she's vice president, we think there's a lot that she could say that would be super helpful. And so our ask of her is arms embargo.
OK, and what arms embargo means is not another bomb. Stop sending bombs that they're using to kill civilians. If that's not what Vice President Harris is capable of doing right now, A, I want my fellow Democrats to recognize that it would be a very reasonable thing to do if she did. But if it's not,
then B, tell us what it is that you are able to do. And actually, the uncommitted movement, we have a lot of ideas of things that she could say. For example, we know that Vice President Harris could say that she intends to respect international and U.S. laws as it relates to international weapons transfers. That would be important for us to hear from Vice President Harris. We haven't heard that. We also know that
If it's hard for her to publicly break with President Biden on this issue, there's a lot that she could say that makes it very clear how she intends to be different from Donald Trump. If she endorses an arms embargo, we endorse her. That's just what we would do. Uncommitted, and we would mobilize those voters with whom the Democratic Party...
has lost a lot of trust and that we've built trust with, we would mobilize those voters to vote for Vice President Harris. If she doesn't do that, if she has a different idea of what she could say, let's work together on it so that we can get it to a place where we feel like we can mobilize voters with and so that we can extend support that way. You know, it seems like one of the disconnects between how you're laying this out here and how I've heard some Democrats, particularly those
close to Biden and now Harris campaign articulate this, is they do not feel like the uncommitted vote was all about Gaza. And that, you know, we have seen uncommitted voters in Michigan in different type of cycles. And it seems to be a little bit of an implicit idea that, you know, you can kind of
in the binary choice that is this election, that some of those people might come home in November, no matter if there's a shift in rhetoric or policy or not. Can you respond to those two disconnects? Because it feels like that's a difference in how you're kind of explaining you all's origin and promise and how I think some of the folks, particularly like political insiders, have thought about it.
I'm not claiming, and our movement isn't claiming, that every single uncommitted vote was specifically about Gaza. What we are clear about is that in a situation where it's extremely important to beat Donald Trump, and I feel like that is of paramount importance. I was in the Capitol on January 6th as a congressional staffer. Nobody needs to convince me how dangerous Donald Trump is. I get it.
We have a situation in Michigan where it's not just 101,000 votes fell out of the sky and voted uncommitted. We ran a campaign. We ran a good campaign because we've got some excellent organizers who worked on this campaign. So all of the reporting that this is just some angry Arabs and Muslims, you know, as the tropes go, is missing the point. What we're saying is in a state like Michigan, where we cannot take any chances, where we need every vote we can get,
The last time Donald Trump won was in 2016. He won by 10,700 votes or so. We're saying that at least 101,000, if you think 10,000 of those voters, Gaza wasn't a top policy issue for them, say 91,000. At least that many voters have self-identified and said, this is a top policy issue for me. And since February, what has happened? The killing has intensified. The images of Palestinian children being killed
made orphans being, you know, experiencing unimaginable atrocities have continued to pop up on people's phones. Like the American people are in touch with what's happening here in a way that our political establishment is incapable of suppressing entirely. And so we've got to do something about this. You met quickly with Kamala Harris earlier this year, head of a rally in Michigan. Can you tell me about that exchange and what you took away from it? Yeah. So
The vice president's team has been engaging uncommitted since soon after she became the candidate. Are they engaging in a different way or are they engaging more than the Biden team was?
It's night and day. The vice president has, it seems, made a decision to engage communities for whom this is a top issue. You know, it was clear that there's an openness from the vice president to engage on this issue that we hadn't seen previously. And I think that's a very positive step.
As part of that engagement, we've requested a meeting with the vice president to discuss an update in the policy that would stop sending weapons to be used to kill civilians. And we've requested meetings with the vice president's top policy staff to discuss that. We've requested several things related to our involvement here at the Democratic National Convention. The night and day thing is really sticking with me in terms of engagement because it kind of exposes...
I mean, even if there hasn't been a policy change, it kind of says that Biden's refusal to engage was singular. What should we take from the fact that even to switch in person with similar teams around, with similar policy to this point, caused the change in rhetoric and engagement? What do you make of that? I think for many reasons, President Biden himself...
seems to have been blocking engagement with voters for whom this is a top policy issue and seems to have been enabling Netanyahu and his murderous campaign. I think that's the unfortunate reality that I'm sitting with as a Democrat. And I think, honestly, I still have hope for President Biden. I think he has an opportunity to make his final act
breaking away from the decades of our country's unconditional support for the Israeli military. I also think, to your question, I think Vice President Harris herself, herself, had to okay re-engaging with our communities and re-engaging with uncommitted. And I think that's
And I think that's a very positive sign. You know, the Listen to Michigan campaign started as Democrats were running an unpopular incumbent. And it seemed as if there was a lot of interest because of a lot of reasons, not only people being upset with foreign policy, which we certainly heard about when we talked to electorate, but also people just feeling like Biden was too old. There was a lot of things kind of wrapped
up into there. But we're at the protest yesterday and there's less people than folks expected. And I think some of the fear or some of the assumptions that this week will be kind of overtaken by this issue have kind of fallen away. Has the switch from candidate taken some of the energy from, you know, you all's movement? I'm walking around at the United Center. People know that Uncommitted is in the House.
There is no question to me about that. Several congressional leaders I have interacted with at the United Center, virtually all of the Michigan Democratic Party leaders that I am interacting with, people know who we are and what our demands are. And we are doing everything that we can, not just to engage other delegates. We've engaged other delegates. Mind you, we started here with 30 uncommitted delegates.
delegates. Now we're engaging Harris delegates and asking them to support alongside us an arms embargo. We're up to over 210 what we're calling ceasefire delegates who are here at the convention now. Our movement is growing and we feel like
through telling this story publicly. We're saying publicly, here's what we intend to do. We want a policy change so that we can turn around and beat Donald Trump so that we can live to organize another day to try and change this policy long term. And our moving is only getting stronger.
You know, you mentioned how she expressed some openness to meeting around the possibility of an arms embargo. But I also remember some of her spokespeople clarifying the next day that that is not a policy she supports, at least as of now. How do you read that? Like, is that—if the openness or the rhetoric change doesn't come with the policy change, is that still something that you find—
to be a positive engagement, or is that just political theater? The vice president not being for an arms embargo, in my opinion, and I think in reality, is not news. That's like saying the sky is blue. So...
We know that that's not her policy. We also think that in this moment of the mass killing of Palestinian children, maybe it's time we have this difficult conversation as Democrats. Maybe it's time we figure out how we can have a more humane approach.
That's where we're at right now. You know, the moment of genocide requires that an update to the status quo approach be made immediately. We keep mentioning the protests yesterday because that's kind of fresh in my mind.
But it is, you know, noticeable how differently you talk about kind of policy goals and strategy or even Democrats than some of the folks out there yesterday who also be out there on Thursday. You know, the first speaker within minutes is talking about killer Kamala and saying very explicitly that not only is an arms embargo a policy outcome they're looking for, but that they will not they are withholding their vote.
And do not care if Donald Trump wins because of that. Does that hurt your efforts? And how do you see the distinctions in rhetoric even among leftists or progressives or people sympathetic to the similar cause but going about it in a different way?
I think people are organizing through a great deal of pain and grief right now. This morning, we held a press conference, the Uncommitted Movement held a press conference with healthcare workers who have spent time in Gaza over the last 10 months. As they were describing the horrors that they've witnessed, I personally broke down weeping multiple times. I couldn't contain myself. I wasn't the only person in the room. People are
trying to make sense of a political moment of a presidential election as they see themselves in the humanity of the Palestinians in Gaza who are being killed using U.S. weapons. And so, you know, I think...
It's actually very hard to oscillate between having super effective political strategy and sitting with your own grief. And I think we have to extend members of our community who are making sense of that grief a lot of grace. It's understandable that it would be very hard to think about what the smart political strategy is through this.
In the uncommitted movement, a lot of us who are helping lead this are dealing with that grief ourselves. And we have a strategy that we're putting out there that we find compelling and that we are in touch with voters about. And so our strategy is to engage within the Democratic Party, specifically because we know that on the Republican side, we know there's no room for our politics there. We know that the Republican Party, the Marjorie Taylor Greene's of the world and the Donald Trump's of the world,
They would prefer that I, as an Arab American, as a Muslim American, they would prefer that I not exist at all. That's my, you know, genuinely, I think they're offended by my existence. I think we can build power among Democratic voters because the vast majority of Democratic voters support democracy.
life-saving policies on this issue. And indeed, the majority of American voters do too. But we just, we have more hope to deliver a more humane policy from within the Democratic Party, in my estimation. I'm saying, does that rhetoric make your pitch to Democratic voters harder? I think what makes our pitch, the Uncommitted Movement's pitch, to try and re-engage Democratic voters harder is...
Our Democratic Party continuing to support a policy of sending weapons to kill civilians. That's what makes it the hardest, right? I can have disagreements with folks about tactics and strategies as we're trying to stop a genocide. My focus is on getting the people who have the power to stop this thing to stop this thing. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Thank you so much, Ested. Tomorrow morning, the DNC continues. We'll see you then. The run-up is reported by me, Ested Herndon.
and produced by Elisa Gutierrez, Caitlin O'Keefe, and Anna Foley. It's edited by Rachel Dry and Lisa Tobin, with original music by Dan Powell, Marion Lozano, Pat McCusker, Diane Wong, Sophia Landman, and Alisha Ba'i-Tube. It was mixed by Alyssa Moxley and fact-checked by Caitlin Love.
Special thanks to Paula Schumann, Sam Dolnik, Larissa Anderson, David Halfinger, Maddie Macielo, Mahima Chablani, Jeffrey Miranda, and Elizabeth Bristow. Do you have questions about the 2024 election? Email us at therunupatnytimes.com. Or better yet, record your question using the voice memo app in your phone. That email again is therunupatnytimes.com. Thanks for listening, y'all.
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