Democrats Are Panicking About Biden. How Did They Get Here?
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So, as you may have heard, Thursday night was the first debate between President Biden and Donald Trump. More border patrol and more asylum officers. President Trump? I really don't know what he said at the end of that sentence. I don't think he knows what he said either. And in short, it was not a great night for Biden. Excuse me, with dealing with everything we have to do with... Look, if...

We finally beat Medicare. Thank you, President Biden. President Trump? This has triggered a big freakout among top levels of the Democratic Party, which for months has been dismissing concerns about Biden's age and mental fitness. Often getting angry at reporters like me for even asking the questions

despite the fact that polling and our own reporting have clearly shown that concerns about Biden's age, physical stamina, and mental acuity are huge factors in this election.

How are you feeling about President Biden? He's getting old, and I just, that makes me sad because he's really a good candidate. He's too old. I feel like he's a little out of touch, but I think he's too old. It just flattered, at some point the age thing has to come into play. I like Joe Biden when he's too old. I don't think we should have...

deep senior citizens in office making decisions for the country. His level of competence worries me with his age and mental clarity. I won't vote for Joe Biden in November because he looks like he's away from the high seas. I was not expecting Biden to run again, actually. I was thinking that logically he's old, he was going to sit down. You know, his age does trouble me and he seems to be frail. I think he has this.

And so for the many people who watched the debate or who woke up on Friday morning and saw the clips and thought, how is this happening? Or how did the Democrats let this happen? Here's how. From The New York Times, I'm Ested Herndon. And this is a special edition of The Run-Up. He's an excellent president.

He is very good at presidenting. And his policies have worked. We see them. We feel them in our community. And so you say, if it ain't broke, why go with something unknown when this guy's such a good president? And, you know, we like Uncle Joe. That's Leah Daughtry, a longtime DNC member and party official. We talked to her in February of last year at the DNC winter meeting in Philadelphia.

This was not long after the midterm elections, when Democrats were riding high. And at the request of President Biden and his campaign, party leaders were set to change the state order of the Democratic primary so that South Carolina could vote ahead of Iowa and New Hampshire. The stated reason was a desire to support Black voters and increase representation. But since South Carolina has long been Biden's second political home, the decision also seemed designed with an eye to 2024

to scare off any potential Biden primary challengers and make his path to the nomination just a little bit easier. A quiet coronation of sorts. At the same time, Iowa, New Hampshire states Joe Biden's a bad end. South Carolina's a state he did well in. Couldn't this also be read as a president rewarding a state or prioritizing a state that serves his political interests? And...

Okay. I don't have a problem with that. He's the president. He's the head of the party. So he gets to make the decisions that are best for the party. Whether his personal interests played a role, it aligned with our objectives, which is to shake up this system to ensure that the base of your party, who shows up every single cycle for you, have an early say. That's interesting because sometimes I've been asking folks that question. They've been acting like politics has just not evolved to this. We have political politics.

This is just about the, you know, representation. It was just about. And so I appreciate you saying that because I feel like it has to be political. I mean, for my this is the Democratic Party. We are political. Every decision we make is political. So I think, you know, to say that it's not is kind of disingenuous. Yeah. Yeah. While we were there, we also spoke with the chair of the DNC, Jamie Harrison, and asked repeatedly,

Do party leaders have any qualms about clearing the path for someone who will be 86 years old at the end of his second term? Poll after poll says the majority of Americans do not want Biden to run for re-election, and it includes the majority of Democrats. How did the actions with the DNC square with that reality? Listen, a poll is a poll, but what we do know, concrete, is that Joe Biden has delivered for the American people.

with a very slim majority in both the House and the Senate. So in the end of the day, I hope folks understand, don't bet against Joe Biden. I understand that. I guess it's not a question about his accomplishments. It's not a question about the midterms. But that's what you run on. No, no, but it's a question about, do you want that person to be the person going forward? Joe Biden would be 82 by the time of 2024. It is very reasonable. And we have talked to voters who...

Like the last four years, but still have questions about the next four years. My question is about the next four years. But instead, ultimately, people vote for somebody who can deliver for them. This man has been delivering for the American people in a way that no president has in recent history. And so he has the record. He intends to run for reelection. We at the DNC are going to make sure that Joe Biden stays in the White House for another four years. There is no inkling.

that he will not be the nominee of our party. I understand that. He deserves that. There's a reason we were asking these questions in early 2023, because it seemed clear at the time that the party was going to effectively shut down a truly open primary process before voters had really started paying attention. And the only person I could find who would speak openly about their concerns with what the party was doing was Biden's former primary challenger, Julian Castro.

who famously fell from grace in the Democratic Party after going at Biden's age and mental acuity. I know the facts of what is on, you know, Biden versus Trump, and I know that you are a supportive Democrat. I'm asking whether you think it's right that the party has kind of coalesced around Biden so quickly, that's kind of shut off the doors to other challengers or really has made that decision so explicitly. That's what I'm really asking.

Well, I mean, I can't blame the Biden team for other people not jumping into the race. I certainly don't hold that against them. I mean, he definitely has a track record and has done a lot of positive things. I mean, there's a lot to be proud of there for Democrats.

However, what I do think the DNC should consider is probably think about opening up the primary to some debates. I think that that would probably benefit the party. I think it would benefit Joe Biden and it would help ensure that there's a victory in November of 2024. Joe Biden officially announced his reelection campaign in April of 2023.

And for much of the year, polling around the theoretical Biden-Trump rematch showed they would be locked in a close race. Not because Trump was unbeatable or even a strong candidate, but because polls continued to show both candidates had significant weaknesses among the public. That November, we spoke to Quentin Foulkes, principal deputy campaign manager for the Biden-Harris campaign.

To the voters who are concerned that President Biden is simply too old, not that he has been a bad president, but that the next four years they are uncomfortable by just the specific question of age. What does the campaign say to that?

I mean, I would say that at the end of the day, people don't care when you're lowering their health care costs or making things in their lives more affordable if that's being given to them by somebody that's 80 or by somebody that's 25. And at the end of the day, people care about kitchen table issues. And I think a lot of that stuff is beltway chatter.

that is from people who are out of touch and really don't know what voters actually care about. And again, that's why this campaign remains focused on continuing to double down and relay those messages about the accomplishments of this administration and the wisdom that comes along with President Biden's age is exactly and precisely what we need at this moment to get things done. Elections are a choice, and we know that. But it is not a choice between Joe Biden and

300 million people is a choice between Joe Biden and the alternatives that the Republicans are putting forth and the agenda that they're putting forth. And that's the contrast that we're drawing. And I think it's going to be front and center of this election for Americans to make that decision. That was also the argument from Vice President Kamala Harris when I spoke to her last August, that this was a binary choice for voters and age mattered less than policy.

We are looking at a moment where we could go one of two ways. And one is to stand up in support of and defend our democracy and fundamental principles upon which we were found, such as freedom. And there is that track or there is a track that is about an attempt to destroy democracy.

All that has made us strong over the years in terms of the importance of rule of law and democratic institutions. Soon, it had become clear that President Biden would not face a serious primary challenge and would cruise to the Democratic nomination. But between polling and what we were hearing from voters on the road, it still seemed like Biden had a serious liability when it came to his age, which could be exploited in a general election against Trump.

So as the president was winning primaries and amassing the delegates needed to secure the party's nomination, we went back to party insiders to check in on how they were feeling about their decision to go all in on Biden. That started with Elaine Kamarck, another DNC lifer. Look, we don't elect presidents for their ability to be high jumpers or long distance runners, right? We elect them fundamentally for their judgment.

And they're judged. You get good. How do you get good judgment experience? Right. And what one of the things we can say with absolute certainty is that in his first term, Donald Trump showed consistently poor judgment. And we have no indication that his judgment has gotten any better. Right. In the years he's been out of office. So I think when people settle down and they say, OK, so the guy looks old.

The question is, what does he say? What does he do? And I would add one more thing to that. Washington is a small town, okay? Everybody talks to everybody. There's just a rumor, a minute, etc.,

the president of the United States must see 50, 100 people every week. You're like, if he had, get where you're going. Yeah. Okay. So if he were. You got to finish it though. You got to finish saying it. I cut you off. So if he were like babbling, if he were forgetting his lines, if he were incoherent, guess what? We'd all know it. It would take no time at all. You know, this kind of brings me to my final like set of questions. I mean,

If I was a Democrat who doesn't hate Biden, but just wanted other options or was nervous about having a president who would be 86 at the end of their second term, from the DNC perspective, like, what is your message to me?

Nobody else ran. My message to you is nobody else ran. OK, so in the absence of somebody else running, you have to support Joe Biden. I mean, pure and simple. That's where we are. You simply can't randomly say, oh, yeah, well, I'm worried about Biden's age if there's no other alternative. You need alternatives. But the main person I wanted to talk to about all this was Ron Klain.

Biden's former chief of staff, playing as a key member of Biden's inner circle, and actually, the man who managed his debate prep for this week. And so when I talked to him back in March, I came with the question, why was he so sure that Biden's age would be so easily dismissed in the general election? His answer and that conversation seem especially relevant right now.

But I guess I wanted to ask more broadly, why is Joe Biden running for reelection, particularly given that, you know, most of Americans, including some Democrats, consistently say that in our reporting and in national polling that they thought he was too old to run again?

Well, I would say this. A lot of people have run against Donald Trump. Only one has ever beaten him, and that's Joe Biden. So I think he is running in part because he's succeeded in defeating Donald Trump, and I think he's our best option to defeat Donald Trump in 2024, protect our democracy. I also think he's done a good job as president.

He ran on a very aggressive agenda for president to have the country recover from the pandemic, to address four crises he saw, a crisis of the economy in the wake of the pandemic, a crisis of climate change, crisis of racism, and obviously then the healthcare crisis coming out of the pandemic. And so he set to work on day one to try to address all four crises, and I feel like we made good progress on all four of them. There's a big unfinished agenda, and he's running to finish that agenda.

I think he has a track record that merits reelection and an agenda that will drive a second term and the proven track record of taking on and defeating Donald Trump. You know, I want to dig deeper there and partly go back to 2020 to do that, because you mentioned the first one about he's the person to beat Donald Trump, and he has the proven track record there. I remember President Biden's age kind of being an open discussion back in 2020, even some folks thinking he should take a pledge to serve only one term. Can you take

me inside the campaign at the time. You were a senior advisor. Was there any discussion of his advanced age at that point? And how did you all go about trying to respond to the pressure of those concerns?

Well, obviously it was an issue in 2020. People raised it. But, you know, I think he defeated it by campaigning, by putting his agenda before the country. He had, I think, a bold agenda that I think helped reject the idea that he was too old because he was very forward-looking on issues like climate change and race and other issues like that. And I think that that agenda and his energy in the campaign, his success in debating Donald Trump in the fall, I think all overcame those objections.

Age was an issue in 2020. It's an issue in 2024, but it's an issue. And there are other issues, too. And I think the sum of the issues favored Biden in 2020, I think they will again in 2024. I also remember at the time during the Democratic primary, there being some discussion of this. And Biden said, you know, I view myself as a bridge, not as anything else. Biden also said, I view myself as.

as a transition candidate. I know a lot of people who interpreted that at Biden at the time, saying that he was only going to serve one term, including media stories that quoted top Biden advisors. Was that not a message that was coming from the campaign back in 2020, that there was a possibility that there would just be one term of President Biden?

Well, I think the first had to be a term. And so I don't think people in 2020 were worried about a second term. We were worried about beating Donald Trump and ending the four-year disaster we had seen. So I think the president is a bridge. He obviously comes from another generation. His success will be of a different generation than he is. So I think that is definitely what the four or eight years is going to be about.

And I think that also, you know, I understand there was a lot of skepticism about him from the start. He's overcome that skepticism. Democratic voters nominated him in 2020. He is getting a strong vote in the primaries in 2024 as well. And I think that that's where he will be proven at the polls and

ultimately on election day? I guess I'm asking because when we are on the road, we talk to so many people, including Democrats, who say that it did not even enter their mind, the prospect that they would be voting for Biden in a kind of second term, that they thought that there was a kind of implicit understanding of they didn't know what was going to happen.

but that they were kind of pulling an emergency lever in 2020. There was a lot of stories at the time, I remember, about the signaling of the possibility of one term. I'm asking, did you all overcome those concerns in the campaign partially by signaling to voters, both publicly and Biden statements and privately in media stories, that he may serve one term, that that was a possibility?

I think we overcame those concerns by defeating Donald Trump. So I don't think the campaign was not running on a message of one term. And in fact, that was suggested that he make that pledge. He did not. He specifically did not. And I think...

You know, voters got what they expected in 2020. And now he's running again in 2024. And I'm confident if he's reelected, he'll serve all four years. I guess there's not really a conflict between the results we see in the large portions of the Democratic Party and even the polling numbers we see, right? Like the polling tells us that Biden has a unique problem that does not translate to the rest of the party. And a lot of the evidence says that the party, when it runs candidates that are not

respectfully 81, that they do fine. And so I guess I'm saying, is there anything that Democrats or the Biden campaign is doing about a question that does seem unique to this candidate? Well, I think that president knows that age is an issue in the campaign. He said that he's acknowledged that.

I think you're going to see the president on the stump when we get into the campaign season. People will assess the president, how he's doing. And I think that he'll be a vigorous campaigner on his own behalf. But I think we have to make the argument that his age allows him to have more wisdom and perspective as president at a time of a complex and a dangerous world. That Joe Biden's the person you want dealing with this mess we have in Europe with Putin invading Ukraine. And you want Joe Biden solving these hard problems because he's got the experience to do that.

And certainly if the choice between Joe Biden and Donald Trump, I think Biden's a better choice. You know, I have a last couple of questions. I really appreciate you kind of being a proxy for us and taking this time. You know, I hear what you're saying, and it reminds me that, you know, Biden's

said in the New Yorker this week that he's running because he's the best suited person to beat Donald Trump. But as we're talking here, I've realized, you know, two things have changed since 2021. He is older and that concern has loomed bigger in the American electorate kind of mind. And second, you know, the original 2020 campaign did have that sense of a bridge to it.

The request to ask people to pull that sign of emergency lever, and both of those things are different. Does any part of you worry that the conditions of this election are so different than the one four years ago that the president's logic of why he's best suited no longer applies?

No, I think that you seem stuck on this idea that he promised a single term in 2020, which he explicitly did not. I guess tax fine. And I think that he didn't just narrowly get across the line in 2020. He won with the largest vote for any candidate for president in the history of the country and won overwhelmingly in the primaries against one of the largest, most talented fields anyone's ever faced.

And, you know, defeating two dozen candidates in the nomination battle for president, including a dramatic victory on Super Tuesday in 2020. So I think that, you know, his victory in 2020 wasn't some kind of just like, you know, reluctant act of the American people. It showed record levels of vote in the general and success.

I think what's changed since then is I'll admit he is older, but he also is even more experienced. He has delivered results and he also has an agenda for 2024. So yes, 2024 is obviously a different election than 2020. It's four years later, different issues, but the candidates are going to be the same and I think the outcome will be the same.

I guess I'm not really stuck on the words that he says. I'm saying that the words that he said are indicative of a larger feeling that we hear all the time, which is that an American public did not expect Joe Biden to be running for two terms. And we hear this from Democrats, independents, like across the aisle. I guess I'm saying if you don't think that that was a perception that 2020 campaign gave to people, why do you think it's such a surprise that the president's running for reelection? I don't know why it's a surprise that he's running for reelection. He never suggested otherwise. And, um,

I think that ultimately the people will speak at the polls. And I think when they speak at the polls and they have the choice between Joe Biden and Donald Trump, they will choose Joe Biden and he will be our president again. Is saying, okay, I guess I can move on. I can move on. You've answered the question and I totally understand it. Could anything happen this year that would change kind of where you are and say, you know, maybe Joe Biden isn't best suited to be the Democratic nominee in November?

Nothing that I can imagine, no. Okay. You know, recently, my colleague Ezra Klein made a kind of explicit case saying that the people Biden listens to, Barack Obama, Chuck Schumer, he named some other folks, including you, need to get him to see that Biden might not be best positioned. I wanted you to respond to that sense of argument that has certainly been in the air. And I guess I actually had a broader question, which is like, is that even the thing that's appropriate or people even do in your position? Or is it just Joe Biden's decision? Yeah.

Well, I think ultimately it is his decision and the decision of the Democratic primary voters who are voting for him in overwhelming numbers to be our nominee. So I'll leave it at that. Look, if I thought he wasn't the right candidate to be Donald Trump, I wouldn't be for him running. But I think he is the right candidate. And I think that people like Ezra, who haven't really been in this business, underestimate how difficult it is to be Trump and have a view that just any generic Democrat could be Trump.

And I'll say it's much more complicated than that. And I think you need someone with the right candidate profile and the right skills. I think that is Joe Biden. And I think you defeated Trump once. I think he'll do it again.

I wonder the specifics on candidate profile. What is it about Joe Biden that makes you think he's harder to caricature? Well, I think he has a working class background that resonates with voters. You know, the man from Scranton. I think the fact that he's had a very pro-union record as president really connects with working people. I think that ultimately makes it harder for Trump to make him into something exotic and

You know, he wasn't born with a silver spoon. He didn't come from privilege. He came from, you know, the industrial heartland of the country. And he's proven that he can go toe-to-toe with Trump on the debate stage and hold his own. And so I think that, to me, performance is a good indicator. And he performed in 2020. I think he'll perform again in 2024. You know—

What both sides agree on is this election is the stakes, or at least the size of them, right? When we go to D events or R events, they say the country's on the line. And for Democrats specifically, it's about the prospect of Trump installing a wide range of anti-democratic reforms, changing our political system, our immigration system, our judicial system, all of the above.

And I know that for the next six months, I'm going to hear arguments from national Democrats in the party saying to people who might be upset with Biden or might prefer someone younger or might not prefer a certain policy here or there, that they should put those things aside because the stakes are so large. But I do think there is some kind of missing acknowledgement that like, isn't it also a risky thing for the party to do to nominate the 81-year-old incumbent who a majority of Americans perceived as too old in the first place? Like, isn't that a big risk too? Yeah.

To me, the risky thing would be when you have someone who's beaten Trump going with an unproven national candidate to try to defeat someone who has run for president twice before and is now running a third time in Donald Trump. So, I mean, there's risks on both sides here. And every candidate has risks. And what the president de-risks is inexperience in the national stage,

and experience in dealing with Trump. And he has those things. And those are assets, I think, in the race that some of these public criticisms are undercounting or undervaluing. I hear that. I guess my last question is, okay, we get the state of play. We get kind of where we are, post all the age questions to you. The Biden campaign has made a similar argument that you have made here, that the stakes will eventually bear them out. So is that just going to be like a stay the course till election day and the day after the election, we'll see type of thing? Or is there...

something about the evidence we have seen over sometimes or some of the polling we have seen or some of the critiques we have heard that is going to require the Biden campaign to change a strategy before then? Like, what do we think might shift? Because some of the arguments I hear from you all aren't things that have to change. It's just going to be like a we'll tell you the day after and we'll be proven correct. Well, I think what has to change about the Biden campaign is we have to have a campaign.

So, I mean, there's going to be an election. The president will go out. He'll campaign. People will hear his argument. I think they'll be persuaded by it. I think the more they see him out there on the stump, the more they'll be assuaged about his age. When they see him debating Donald Trump, going toe-to-toe with Trump, I think, again, they'll be reassured about his age. And their doubts about Trump will be reinforced. But, you know, the thing that has to change about the campaign is we need to have a campaign. And that will come. And, again, four years ago at this time, there were a lot of doubts about Joe Biden, doubts about whether or not he would ever become the nominee.

And he overcame those doubts. And you could have said to me then, well, what's going to change? And I said, what's going to change is we'll start voting and we'll see him win. And that's what it took. So, you know, let the campaign unfold. So that was back in March. And for the next four months, Klain's argument was basically the party line. Then Thursday night happened, sending Democratic panic into overdrive. Still, that panic is mostly coming from people outside Biden's inner circle.

and those close to the president, the people who would likely need to convince him to step down for anything to change, are still voicing their support.

That includes surrogates, like California Governor Gavin Newsom. We have the opportunity to universally have the back of this president who's had our back. You don't turn your back, you go home with the one that brought you to the dance. 100%, all in. Former President Obama. Former President Barack Obama just tweeted out, he said, bad debate nights happen, trust me, I know, but this election is still a choice between someone who has fought for ordinary folks his entire life and someone who only cares about

about himself, between someone who tells the truth, who knows right from wrong and will give it to the American people straight, and someone who lies through his teeth for his own benefit. Last night didn't change that, and it's why so much is at stake in November. That's really echoing — And other notable Democrats, like South Carolina Congressman James Clyburn and House Democratic leader Hakeem Jeffries. But in what may be the biggest tell of all, Biden addressed his own performance this Friday at a rally in North Carolina

And after years of dismissing questions about his age or mental fitness, he was suddenly singing a different tune. I don't walk as easy as I used to. I don't speak as smoothly as I used to. I don't debate as well as I used to. But I know what I do know. I know how to tell the truth. I know how to tell the truth.

I know, I know, I know right from wrong. I know how to do this job. I know how to get things done. I know like the Ministers of America know, when you get knocked down, you get back up. In some ways, a notable shift from a beleaguered candidate, in others,

A late acknowledgement of something voters have long known. The Run-Up is reported by me, Ested Herndon, and produced by Elisa Gutierrez, Caitlin O'Keefe, and Anna Foley. It's edited by Rachel Dry and Lisa Tobin, with original music by Dan Powell, Marion Lozano, Pat McCusker, Diane Wong, Sophia Landman, and Alisha Ba'i Tut. It was mixed by Sophia Landman.

Special thanks to Paula Schumann, Sam Dolnik, Larissa Anderson, David Halfinger, Maddie Macielo, Mahima Chablani, Jeffrey Miranda, and Elizabeth Bristow. Do you have questions about the 2024 election? Email us at therunupatnytimes.com. Or better yet, record your question using the voice memo app in your phone. That email again is therunupatnytimes.com. Thanks for listening, y'all.

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