Ex Mafia w/ Michael Franzese | Girls Gone Bible
01:06:42 Share

Hi, guys. I'm Angela. And I am Ari. And this is Girls Gone Bible. We are a Christian podcast. We talk about everything to do with Jesus, the Bible, everyday life, mental health. And if you guys watch Ari and I, you know that Girls Gone Bible, the heart of Girls Gone Bible is realness, rawness, and truth.

And honestly, we started this podcast and we called it Jesus for Degenerates because we were once degenerates. And then we found Jesus. Thank you, God, that he is a redeemer, a restorer. And like the darker the past, the more you've been through, the more glory that Jesus gets.

So today we have Michael Francis on the podcast. Michael, thank you so much for coming today. Thanks for having me. And I love the name. Girls Gone Bible. That's great. Thank you so much. It was a beautiful storm of a name that we did not expect to become what it became at all. So we're really blessed by that. So excited to have you. And I love that you're from the East Coast. Yeah. Where are you from? From

From Brooklyn originally. Yeah. I mean, you can still tell the accent, but it's cleaned up a bit in the last 25 years that I'm out here. But yeah, I'm a Brooklyn boy and moved to Long Island.

Please don't lose the accent. My girl is from Boston and she tries to lose her accent. People don't know where I'm from because I do 10 different accents because I'm trying not to do a Boston one. I love it. Yeah, I don't hear the Boston too much. I'm trying. It's the worst. I think it might be top number one worst accent. Are you a Red Sox fan? I am. Are you Yankees? I am. All right, I'm leaving. Goodbye. I'm just kidding. We're about to part ways on that one, but...

Oh, man. Unity, guys. Unity. So, Michael, you have one of the most insane stories of all time. And I think it is just the heart of what we do here. God, like we said, is a redeemer. Jesus came to give us life after we have lived away from him. And he loves us no matter where we've been, what we've done. So can you just get into your story a little bit?

Yeah, well, you know, this is the last thing I expected to do in my life. It's the last place I expected to be. But, you know, God has a way of straightening things out. But, you know, I grew up in Brooklyn. My dad was the underboss of the Colombo family, one of the five New York mafia families. And so I grew up in that life.

My dad was a very high profile figure, always under investigation, major target of law enforcement, kind of like the John Gotti of his day. So my dad, you know, throughout my young years was always getting arrested, was always going on trial, you know, and he had so much publicity. So it just followed us all around from the time I was two, three years old. And he didn't want this life for me. Originally, he wanted me to go to school, son, be a doctor, get off the street, get an education. That's what it's all about.

So I was on that road. And then he got in some real trouble. He was indicted three times in the state of New York, twice for grand larceny, once for murder. Went to trial over a period of years for all three of those cases, was found not guilty. But then in 1966, they indicted that in federal court for masterminding a nationwide string of bank robberies. Goes to trial, lengthy trial, gets convicted. And in 66, they sentenced him to 50 years in prison.

kind of a death sentence at that time. And I grew up really idolizing my dad. I loved him. You know, for me, during my young years, he was a great father, you know, very supportive of me. I was an athlete in school. He wanted me to get an education. So he was a great dad, taught me a lot of good things. And in 1970, he lost all his appeals. They shipped him off to Leavenworth Penitentiary to do his time. And I was a pre-med student, Hofstra University on Long Island at that point.

And I was devastated when he went in. He was 50. If he had 50 on top of that, my dad would die in prison. So at the time, Joe Colombo was the boss of our family. And he kind of took me under his wing. I grew up knowing Joey really well and all his sons and his family.

So he at that time started the Italian American Civil Rights League, which was an anti-defamation league. And he was trying to help his son who was indicted. So I saw it as a way to help my dad. I got very involved in the league, started to meet a lot of my dad's friends. I started to drift away from school. My guys would say, you know, Mike, what are you doing going to school? If you don't help your father out, he's going to die in prison. And the reason being because, you know, my dad always, I always thought he was pretty honest with me.

And when he first got locked up, I said to him, Dad, bank robbery? It didn't seem like my father, you know? And he looked me in the eye and he said, son, I'm innocent. I'm no bank robber. I was framed on this case. And we have to fight to prove my innocence.

And so that kind of got me disinterested in school. And I'm saying, well, how am I going to help you out? I can't help you out by going to school. We've got to track down these witnesses that lied. We've got to pay for lawyers. So I started to think according to those thoughts that I had. And he said, I don't want you to quit school. We had a meeting in the visiting room, Elevenworth Penitentiary. And I was pretty determined. I said, Dad, I'm not going to school anymore. I said, my mind is made up. I was a pretty headstrong kid.

And it was during that meeting that he just threw his hands up and he said, okay, but if you're going to be on the street, I want you on the street the right way. His mind the right way was to become a member of his life. And at that point, he proposed me for membership in the life. And that's how it started for me. I was 19, 20 years old. Wow. So basically what it is, being in the mafia, if you don't follow the rules, you don't survive. So you had to really follow the rules, right? That's correct. That's correct.

And, you know, I don't like to say this because it's offensive, but it goes to show you really how God can really redeem anyone. Because I tell people, you know, at one time I might have been considered the worst person in the room because when you take that oath, you know, my father asked me one question in that room. He said, son, if you ever had to kill anybody, could you do it? And, you know, I was a little taken back. I didn't expect that question, but I said, no.

Under the right conditions, I said, yeah, I can do it. And he said to me, that's the right answer. So it's part of the life.

So for the next two and a half years, I was a recruit where I had to prove myself worthy, do anything and everything I was told to do to prove myself. And it could have been something very menial, a lot of discipline in that life, a lot of authority. You had a meeting at 8 o'clock, you weren't there at 7.30, you could late. Like today, it was a little bit late. You can never be late in that life, you know, suffer consequences. It was a lot of stuff like that. And then...

You know, violence is a part of that life. And whether you like it or not, you got to play by the rules. So in 1975, after I passed all their tests, I would say, I was called into a room on Halloween night. Just coincidentally, it was Halloween night. It was a secure night for us. And myself and five other gentlemen took an oath and became sworn made members of the Colombo family. It was a very serious oath.

solemn ceremony, dimly lit room late at night. They wanted us to understand the seriousness of what we were getting involved in. We walked in individually. Boss was seated at the head of like a horseshoe configuration. The underboss and the consigliere to, you know, administrative positions to his left and right. And then we had all the captains, the capos alongside of them. We had about 15 in our family.

And I walked down the aisle, stood in front of the boss, held out my hand. He took a knife, cut my finger. Some blood dropped down the floor. This is a blood oath. Cupped my hands, took a picture of a saint, Catholic altar card, put it on my hands, lit it aflame. Didn't hurt. It burned quickly. It was merely symbolic.

You know, he said something to me that night. I grew up as a Catholic, Catholic school from kindergarten right through high school, altar boy the whole bit. But for me, for some reason, Catholicism was like a subject in school. You know, I didn't understand it really until later on. This life is about a relationship with Jesus, not about rules and regulations. So it's the first night I recall hearing this when he said, tonight, Michael Francis, you are born again into a new life, into Cosa Nostra.

Violate what you know about this life. Betray your brothers and you'll die. Burn in hell like the saint is burning in your hands. Do you accept? Yes, I do. Hmm.

And that's the oath and that's how it started for me. Wow. That's so wild. It's just so crazy that it's actually in real life how it is in the movies. Like that's straight out of a movie. And I just think it's so interesting how these agreements that we make are so – I mean you literally entered technically into a blood covenant with people and like this –

Something like this is demonic when you enter into covenant and when you enter into agreement. So I'm wondering, I mean, we'll get there, but I'm so curious now if you've had to, I'm sure, repent and denounce this time of your life and break these soul ties that you made with these people. But before we get there, what...

How did you get out of it? Did you get into trouble? What happened to your dad? What was the next – what was that like for you? Well, immediately from the first moment I was involved in that life, I had a bullseye on my back, a target because of my dad and our name.

And so throughout my history in that life and my tenure in that life, I was arrested 18 times. I was indicted seven times. I had two federal racketeering cases, one state racketeering case. I went to trial five times. So this was part of my life. Aside from navigating the life, I was always navigating the Department of Justice who was after me in a big way. So-

But it was just normal for me. I mean, I watched my father go through it. So, hey, this is normal life. You know, this is what I have to deal with. But, you know, when I came into the life, I was very determined to be the best possible mob guy I could be. Took the oath very seriously. It was his brotherhood that was so attractive to me. You know, when I come into the life, hey, I got your back. You got mine. Wherever you go in the world, somebody is going to have your back.

Don't ever worry about your wife, your daughter, your sister, your mother. Nobody's ever going to mess with them. That's powerful stuff. So appealing. Very appealing, you know, especially young guys. So I was, you know, I had this blood oath now with my dad, you know, something even more close than we were already. So I was, I had a very idealistic view of the life, determined to be the best guy I could be, make my dad proud and excel in the life.

So I was fortunate. I knew how to use that life to benefit me in business and, you know, was very successful in that regard. In 1980, the boss of my family made me a captain. Capitano Jamie appointed me a captain, said, you're doing a great job for the family. I ended up getting my dad out of prison after 10 years on parole. But he kept going back. He kept getting violated for association with other felons. You're not allowed to do that, you know.

And so my dad ended up doing 40 years on the 50. He was in and out five times, kept going back, kept going back. And he was, just to tell his story, he was eventually released in 2017 at the age of 100. My dad was the oldest inmate in the system at the time of his release. You're kidding. 100 years old, yeah.

And then he passed away, unfortunately, during the pandemic at the age of 103. What? Yeah. He was the oldest living made man. That's the term when you take the oath.

In America, for sure, quite possibly in the world, because that life is not conducive to a long lifestyle. Yeah. And, you know, he's kind of legendary in that regard, that he lasted so long. That's insane. That's wild. What did he say? Was it so hard for him to, like, what did he say? Yeah.

Coming out. You know, my dad was old school, you know, in many ways. And, you know, I got upset with him at times because, you know, our family was falling apart and he was still involved in life. He kept going back.

But he, you know, the issue I had with my dad is that his legacy in that life was more important to him than anything. He would never cooperate. He would never, you know, never. He just wanted to be known as the guy that died with his boots on. And he was. And that was just it, you know. Even though he, you know, privately with me, he would tell me, Mike, you know, this life is nonsense. It's not what it's cracked up to be. And I said, well, I know that now, Dad, you know. Didn't know it early on. Yeah.

But he still wouldn't, you know, he wouldn't do anything to dishonor his name in that life. Yeah. Pride. Pride is, especially for men, it'll have you like take things to the very end, even if you know it's not the best thing that's for you.

We talk about that all the time because pride so often gets in the way of like women are so much more responsive to love and to Jesus because we're more open, whereas men are just the pride and the ego. It even hinders their relationship with Jesus a lot of the time. Absolutely. That is that's just so crazy. I have so many questions. Were you anxious? Yes.

I mean, I just want to know your mental health during that time. Like when you're all getting into trouble, you have a bullseye on your back, you have to watch your back. I mean, that's wild. You know, I think some of this is innate because obviously everybody reacts to situations in a different way.

And I don't know why that I handled it the way I did. It was just so normal for me. It was like, this is just life. I watched my father go through it. This is what I have to go through, you know? It's funny because a while back I had this, I don't know what you call it, where your beard starts to disappear a little bit in spots. So I went to see the doctor, dermatologist, and she said, do you have a lot of stress? I said, no.

I have no idea. You're like my dad. It's my life and this is it. I don't know what stress is or what it isn't. You know, it's just the way I live. So I don't know. You know, even till present day, I have a tendency just to, okay, this happened. It's over. Let's move forward. Wow. It's just the way I deal with things. Sometimes my wife doesn't like that. She says, you know, you got to dwell a little bit more on this. Well, it's happened. It's over. Let's move on, you know.

It's so funny. My dad is the same way. My dad, I'll be like, because my dad obviously has stress. Everybody does. And I'll be like, Dad, do you? I'll ask him questions like he's very Albanian so far. And I'll be like, Dad, do you struggle with your mental health? And he's like, what are you talking about? What do you mean? Why would I have food on the table? I have this. I'm great. My life is amazing. And I'm like...

Okay. It's almost like an insult, right? When even asking the question, I know, I know. Exactly. We are the biggest fans of Olive and June here at Girls Gone Bible. We love their manicure system and we love their press on system. Today I'm wearing their press on nails. They literally look so real and I am so pleased with them. I love Olive and June because everything you need for a salon quality manicure is in one box.

Salon Grade Tools designed for DIY. We can customize it with our choice of six polishes. The polish doesn't chip and it lasts for seven days or more. And you guys, it breaks down to just $2 a manicure. It is so easy to get salon worthy nails at home with Olive and June. The difference between how my nails used to look when I did them myself versus how they look now when I do them myself, the Manny system is an actual game changer.

It's so much more affordable to get my nails done at home with Olive and June than to go to the nail salon every single time and absolutely break my bank. I really don't miss the salon, if I'm being honest. I don't miss having to make appointments. I don't miss traveling. I don't miss the times that I accidentally miss my appointment and then I get a phone call about it. Again, the press-on nails are my absolute favorite. I love a white tip. It's my favorite. It's clean. It's classy. I've never used press-on nails like Olive and June's.

Truthfully, they look so real, they last so long, and they have so many different sizes. You can find the perfect fit, and above all else, you guys, they're non-damaging. It's only $10 a set, and you guys, it's easy removal. You can legitimately remove them with warm water. You can change them out as much as you want or keep them on for weeks, or you can paint them, take the polish off, and end up with a fresh, perfect mani. Visit oliveandjune.com slash ggb for 20% off your first system.

That's O-L-I-V-E-A-N-D-J-U-N-E dot com slash GGB for 20% off your first system.

Well, we would love to hear. We've been waiting to hear. We'd love to hear your coming to Jesus. How did it all start? We've heard a little bit about your beautiful wife. I'd love for you to get into that. Because I would like to say, I want you guys to go look up Michael and we'll put all of his socials and his YouTube and everything in the description. He does so much for Jesus. This is a man who is after God's heart, who's out there on the front lines, pushing the gospel, pushing Jesus. And I think that's a great way to get into the gospel.

And you don't need to do that. You could be famous. You could have the platform. You could have the influence without all that. Your story on its own is interesting enough. And in fact, you would probably offend less people if you weren't spreading the gospel. But you choose to. You are a warrior for Jesus. And we appreciate that. Well, thank you. You know, and I say this, you know, during the time I spent in solitary, which I'll get into.

I'm certainly not the best Christian around. I have my faults and make my mistakes, and I believe I'm better than I was back then. But my faith is rock solid because of the time I spent in solitary and the research that I did.

Because, you know, for me, everything is based upon evidence. Show me the facts. You know, I grew up, I went to trial five times. Evidence played such a major part of my life. I was always looking for it or looking ways to, you know, subvert it when I was on trial. And so it's all about evidence, evidence, evidence. And when I approached the Bible, I approached it in that regard.

And I read a lot of other books and a lot of other faiths. And Christianity just became rock solid. And from the time I got out of prison until this very moment, it's only gotten stronger for me in that regard. Not saying I'm a better Christian as a result of that, but my faith cannot be wavered because of that.

So, you know, what happened to me, I was flying very high. You know, I beat all these cases. I beat Rudy Giuliani. I'm sure you know who he is. He indicted me on a huge racketeering case. And I was a lead defendant. I had 15 co-defendants. And he gave me a million-dollar bail on my arraignment. And he comes up to me and my lawyer and he says, Francis, if I convict you on this, I'm giving you double what your father got. You're going to get 100 years. And that's the kind of time they were giving us guys back then, 100 years, 150 years, crazy time, right? Wow.

So I looked at him and I said, hey, Rudy, bring it on. You beat your guys four times. Let's go for round five. Dumb thing to do. You don't want to antagonize them anymore. But I was very arrogant back then with the police at least. So fortunately, I was acquitted in that case. Some of my co-defendants were convicted. They got 30 years. He would have given me at least 50.

So I beat that case. I'm riding high. I'm making a lot of money. I've got my own jet plane, a helicopter. I got a house in Florida, a house in New York, a house in Marina Del Rey, California. And I'm doing great, right? So among many things I'm doing, I had a production company. I was making movies.

So Smokey Robinson came to us with a screenplay for a breakdance movie, you know, music, dance, rap music and all that. And I said, Smokey, I'll make the movie. Let's film it in Florida. I have a house down there. It's great. So we film it in Florida and we bring cast and crew from L.A. to work in the film and about 20 professional dancers. So we had we had done pre-production for about six weeks, ready to start principal photography on a Monday.

And so Sunday I throw a party for everybody in the back of the hotel. Let's get ready for the heavy stuff, you know. Enjoy yourself today. So I'm sitting by the pool. It was a beautiful day in Florida. I'm sitting by the pool. I'm talking to a few of my guys. And all of a sudden this beautiful girl comes out of the water, you know. She's like 20 years old. And I'm 31 or 32 at that point. I think 31.

And she looked like a dancer to me. So the choreographer was sitting near the pool. I said, Jeff, come over here. Is that one of your dances? He said, yeah. I said, bring her over. I want to meet her. Why wouldn't you want to meet me? I'm the producer, right? So to make a very long story short, I asked her, I said, look, I want to take you to lunch. I'm your producer. Let me get to know you better.

She says yes and doesn't show up. She stood me up that first time. Stood me up a number of times after that. She just thought I was too old for her. She wanted anything to do with me. She said he had a reputation. She didn't want anything about the mob stuff because she grew up in Anaheim, California. Wow. So anyway, I was very persistent. We got a little bit friendly on the set. And I already knew there was something with this girl that it was just different, right? Mm-hmm.

She told me she was a Christian. Okay. Didn't matter to me. Really? I'm a Catholic. Great. Let's move on. Right? But then what happened is we wrapped the movie and she said, I'd like you to come home and meet my mother. I said, great. I'm good with moms. Let's go. Right? We jump on a plane. We go to Anaheim. I meet her mom, Irma, the most godly woman I ever met in my life.

I mean, without a doubt, very upfront about it. Jesus was her guy. That was it. And so I started to see something in these two women. I said, this is for real with them. Now, I wasn't buying into it, but I had a lot of respect for the way they behave. Camille was much different than other women that I knew. And I said, OK. I said, I respect that. And one day I'm sitting down. It was about two weeks after I met her.

And we're sitting down at the breakfast table with her mother and her. Her mother turns around to me and she says, where are you with your faith? I said, what do you mean? She says, well, where are you? I said, well, I don't know what you mean, but I'm a Catholic. So she said, okay. And she looks at me and out of the blue, she says, one day you're going to be spreading the gospel to millions of people.

And I looked at her and I said, this woman's out of her mind, right? You know, she has no clue what she's talking about. And so Camille looked at her mom at that point and said, Mom, please don't scare him away. She said, just like she's, I'm hoping for maybe a Bible study on Wednesday, church service on Sunday. I'll never forget her mom's words. Her mom looked at her and said, why would you ever limit the power of Jesus Christ in anyone's life? This is out of the blue. I love this lady. This is out of nowhere.

And then she said, I'm putting your name on my prayer book and I'm going to pray for you every day. I said, okay, you know, that's nice. But I can tell you this, you know, where I am now, there's no doubt that that woman prayed me.

to where I am. I believe in the power of prayer because of my mother-in-law. - It's everything. - I have a gospel. - Me too. - We have, I'm sorry, really quick. When you started this story, I didn't know if it was about Camille or not, and so I was like, stop calling another woman prayer. I literally was like having my girls back over there. We have his wife and his beautiful daughter here today.

I didn't know that that was the woman that prophesied that over you was your mother-in-law. That's so crazy. That is the power of prayer. I love that story, the little prayer book. That's so good. And her prayer book was like a telephone book. I mean, this woman prayed, and she didn't need to know your name, nothing. I mean, she thought you needed prayer. She'd put your name or she'd put something in there to recognize that it was you, and she'd pray.

And I will tell you this. I have to say this because it had such an impact on me. She passed away of cancer in 2001, I believe. And she was living with us. You know, we were living in Westwood, I think, at the time. And we were taking her to UCLA for chemo treatments. But prior to that, no worries, Mom, I'm going to cure you. I had her on every homeopathic day. I'm calling doctors all over the world. You know, I'm going to cure her, right? Right.

And she was good for a while, but then she started to reject everything that we were giving her. I was giving her like 30 pills and this and that. So Camille is crying at night. Camille is one of seven kids. All the kids are upset. Very close family, right? Love their mom.

And so I have her in the car with me. I'm taking her to UCLA for her chemo treatment. And I was angry with her. I turned around and said, you know, why are you doing this? I'm doing everything to help you. Camille's crying every night. You're rejecting everything. She had the bandana on her head, right, from the chemo. She lost her hair. And she's sitting there with her hands folded like this. And I kid you not, I get the chills when I say this. She just turns to me like this and she said, Michael, I'm going home. I'm ready. Okay.

And I was stunned for a second because she had a smile on her face. And I said, there wasn't one hint of fear or uncertainty. And I experienced courage in my life. At least I thought I did. But that was probably the most courageous thing I ever saw. And she had no worries. She said, my kids are going to be okay. My husband, who was a little nutty, you know, he was a wild guy. He's going to be okay because I'm praying for him. And I know God is going to honor the prayer.

I'm ready to go home. And she passed away two weeks later. It was an unbelievable show. So I said to myself at that point, this has got to... Now, I'm already a Christian at that point, but that kind of just, you know, things happen, that these defining moments in your life that just solidify things. And I said, this has got to be real. There's no question in my mind, because I saw the way she lived her life. And...

That's what happened. Wow. Wow. Wow. Oh, my gosh. God bless her. That is incredible. So short. Well, we did ask you questions all day. Yeah, I know. But I'm just I'm curious. So so she passes away. And then was it shortly after that you devoted yourself? You got you got out of the mob. You started living, right? No, it was before that, because, you know, I say this all the time.

You know, the mob life, gang life, they're evil lifestyles. Yeah. Now, I want to be careful. I don't call the guys evil. Yeah. I was one of them.

And maybe we did evil things at the time, but it's the age-old question. Why do good people do bad things? I saw a lot of good guys that I thought were good guys. I watched them, but we all did bad things. So I don't want to call the guys evil because I'm just blessed, very fortunate to be here. But the lifestyle is evil. Why? I don't know any family of any member of that life, including my own, not my wife and kids, praise God, but mother, father, sisters, brothers, that hasn't been totally devastated. Totally. Totally.

You know, my mom, she passed away in 2012. She was 33 years without her husband because my dad did all that time. At the end of her life, I can only describe her relationship with my dad as being ugly. She blamed him for everything that went wrong, and rightfully so. You were mom. My mom, yeah. Now, what went wrong? My sister, 27 years old, died of an overdose of drugs. Totally attributed to the turbulent lifestyle that we had.

My brother, 25 years a drug addict. I can't even begin to tell you what he put the family through. Me personally, just trying to keep him alive. If it wasn't for me and my dad and his name, he would never last. Yeah. And then at the end of all of that, my brother gets in trouble on the street, cooperates with the government, testifies against my father in a case, and puts my father back in jail at the age of 93. So a father, a son goes against the father. Wow.

My younger sister, 40 years old, she was never mentally stable. She died at 41. The whole family devastated, right? And I said, so any lifestyle that does that to a family is a bad life. So now I had just beat the Giuliani case. I fell in love with Camille. She's 11, 12 years younger than me. I said, am I going to marry this girl and then put her through the same thing that everybody else goes through? I got to make a choice. So...

She was talking to me about Christianity, but I got to be honest, it wasn't the Christianity to say, okay, God, I got to do the right thing now and walk away from a bad life. Wasn't that. I wanted the girl in my life. And so I had to make a choice. I said, I'm going to get out of that life somehow. I don't know how to do it because there's no blueprint for walking away and not going into a witness protection program and all of that, especially me. I was so high profile.

But I had a plan, you know, I kind of figured it out. I took a plea on this big gasoline case that I had because I had beat the government so many times they wanted a conviction on me. So I had leverage with them, especially after I beat the Giuliani case. They really thought they had me. They said, we want to convict this guy or something.

So I negotiated a deal with my lawyer. I got a 10-year prison sentence. I had $15 million in restitution. I had $5 million in forfeitures. I gave him the plane, the helicopter, the whole bit. I gave him all that. And I married Camille in July of 85. And I went off to prison in December of 85. Wow. We were only married four months. How long were you in prison? Well, I did eight years total. Eight years. But I did five years first.

Very bad because it became public that I was walking away. Life magazine wrote a huge story. The circumstances of how it got out were crazy. But as soon as that happens, now I'm in real trouble. Now my dad, you know, turned it on me because I betrayed the life. He thought I was going to betray. Everybody thought I was going to become this major witness. That wasn't what I wanted to do. Boss of my family, contract on my life.

So the feds come into the prison, Francis. We got word from our informants you're a dead man anyway. Cooperate with us. We'll put you in a program. We'll protect you and your family. But I didn't want to do that. It wasn't in me to start hurting people and going against friends. They were still friends. Yeah. Couldn't do it. That's right, Michael. Yeah. So I said, I don't want to do that. But I had to.

I can't even begin. I guess, you know, if there was ever a stressful time in my life, that was it. Trying to walk a line to try to get the government to understand I'm really done because they didn't believe it and not hurt anybody. And it was a lot of...

It's just stuff that I had to go through to navigate that. Anyway, I get out of prison on parole after five years and I'm on parole at home for 13 months, worst 13 months of my life. I mean, I couldn't get anything going properly in L.A. I had people after me. I had the government still watching me.

And it was very, very difficult. We had three little babies now. Yeah. I had them. I don't want to, you know, but I had a halfway house baby. I had a furlough baby. Wow. That is awesome. She was so mad at me. The last one, she said, how did you do this? You know, I had an eight hour pass. But anyway. That is so good. Praise God. So it was just a very difficult time, that 13 months. And then like a fool, the government was after me. They really wanted me to cooperate in a big way.

I fall into a trap, violate my parole and 15 agents, they slapped the cuffs on me, throw me in a paddy wagon, leaned my bank accounts, drove my car away, went into the house with a search warrant, cleaned us out. I mean, took money out of her purse. I mean, and they told her you'll never see your husband a free man again. Done, over with. - What? - So they're driving me down at a federal lockup and they said, "We don't want you to cooperate anymore. We know you've been taking us for a ride." They told me straight out, "It's well, you're right."

we took everything that you got and we're going to indict you on another case and we violated your parole. You'll never see the street again. And I'm like 40 years old, I think. I said, man, it's over. This time I'm done. It's finished. So they put me in solitary and they were going to take me back to Brooklyn in the morning. That's where my case was. They put me in front of the judge. And quite honestly, that was the worst night of my life because, you know, I was always kind of a control guy. Mm-hmm.

Always figured I can handle anything. No problem. I'll work it out. But that night I felt there's nothing I can do. I said, it took all my money. Another racketeering case. You don't beat these cases with a public defender. I spent millions of defending myself. I said, they can't put me out on the yard. I said, the word is out there. You know, they're going to keep me in lockdown for the rest of my life. That's how it goes. I says, and my wife, how's she going to wait for me now?

She waited for me five years, 13 horrible months on parole. We got three little babies. She's only 27 years old. I'm going to lose the girl I did all of this for. So it was like, that was rock bottom. That was like, you know, I always say this and it's, you call me weak or whatever that night, but I used to belittle or demean people that were suicidal. I said, how do you not face up to your troubles? You're weak. That was my mindset.

After that night, I don't ever do that again because I wasn't suicidal. I wasn't that brave. But I really wanted to just lay my head down on that cot and not wake up. I said, man, I visited my father for 20 years. I'm going to put my wife and family through this. If I have a wife and family to go back to, I said, I'd rather close my eyes and not wake up. And I really, really meant it. It was the most painful thing that I ever experienced during that time. And I was laying there.

A prison guard walked by my cell and he opened the flap on the door. He says, "Francis, you okay? You don't look good tonight." I said, "Get away from me. Don't bother me. I don't want to see any of you guys. Leave me alone." And that man left. And probably two, three minutes later, he comes back and he pushes something through the slot on the door, falls on a flump, I hear like a thump. And I looked down and it was a Bible.

And I didn't want a Bible. You know, I mean, look, I was like, okay, Christian thing sounds good. I was going along with my wife. It was okay. It's great. Was I into it? Was I reading my Bible? Was I serious about it? No. But my first reaction, I jumped off the cot, picked up the Bible and just slammed it against the wall. It was like my anger, everything came out of me. And then Catholicism clicked in a little bit. And I said, wait a second. I

There is a God and it's only me and him in this cell. And I got nothing but enemies. I don't need another enemy, right? We turn to God when there's nothing left in our life and just you and him. And so I picked up the book and I'll never forget. I just looked up at that ceiling and I said, if you're up there, I need help. Do something to make me feel better. I can't deal with this. And I think I verbalized that. I really just said it out loud.

And I'm holding the book and I didn't even know really where to begin. You know, in Catholic school, you don't read the Bible. You read the Catechism. Priest reads the Bible from the pulpit. He reads the gospel, right? Sundays. So I'm opening it up and it opens up to the book of Proverbs. And I start reading Proverbs and I said, wow, this guy was brilliant, Solomon, you know. I don't think it was coincidental that I'm reading Solomon because I'm a show me the facts and evidence kind of guy.

So when I started reading it, I said, man, this is really profound, this guy. And I'd never read it before. Brilliant. And I came to a verse, I'll never forget, that just stopped me cold. And it was Proverbs 16, 7. When a man's ways are pleasing to the Lord, even his enemies are at peace with him.

So as soon as I heard the word enemies, I said, whoa, I got nothing but enemies. That's my life right now. And, you know, I will say this. I don't have any special connection with the Lord. I've never heard him in my sleep or in a dream. I never heard him speak to me audibly. Obviously, he speaks to my heart now because I have a relationship. But it was almost as if the Holy Spirit, he convicted me that night. He said, you married a Christian girl. Okay, yeah, you came to Christ because I had gotten baptized. Right.

He said, you didn't do any of that for me. And it was almost like I was looking in the mirror, convicting myself at that point. And then something clicked in and it just said, but if you'd have done that for me, I can take care of your enemies. And I'm telling you, it was so real. It was like I heard my own voice say that. And so I said, wow. And I started to read a little bit more. And then I came to a verse that's really become the verse of my life. And that's Proverbs chapter three, verses five and six. Mm-hmm.

And it says, trust in the Lord with all your heart because everything is about trust. Lean not on your own understanding. In all of your ways, acknowledge him and he will make your path straight. And, you know, when I, he will make your path straight. I kind of really looked at that part of the verse because not he can, not he might, it's he will. But this is what you need to do.

So that night, I honestly, when I finished that verse, I just said, you know what, God? This sounds great, but I trusted my father. I followed him blindly into this life, and look where it got me. I said, I took a blood oath. I gave my life to this life. I really did. Look where it got me. I said, I can't do this again. So if I'm going to spend the rest of my life in this hole, then I need to know the truth. I said, so show me.

And I really, that night opened up my mind and my heart. And it started at that point, it started for me to really do my search. And my wife sent me in a bunch of books. The pastor that married us sent me in books. He was so good to me. I hardly knew him, but he was great. They took care of my wife and family, Westwood Hills Christian Church. When I was out, they embraced them like I was the nicest guy in the world. I mean, and I appreciated that so much.

And so I just absorbed my Bible and I came out of there believing that, you know, the Bible was truly God's word and that Jesus was my risen Savior. And...

That's really how the journey started. And I spent 29 months and seven days in solitary. Wow. Yes. And let me tell you something. That is not easy. No. That is a form of torture. I'm dead against it for young people. I've actually spoken in front of the Senate about prison reform and how this would really destroy young people that can't deal with it. I saw a lot of guys, a lot of horrible things, guys that just couldn't handle it. And I don't demean them. It's tough. Yeah.

You know, the lights go out at night and you hear a lot of moaning and groaning and people just trying to get out of that situation. When I was in the hole, there were guys that were hurting themselves just to get out of solitary and being sent to the prison. They just couldn't handle it anymore. And I understood that. I got it. But for me, it was the Bible that just sustained me. It was my determination to get home to my wife and kids. And it was – I can say this.

I believe, I don't know if I didn't spend that time in the hole, if I would have really become a Christian. Because I always felt I can deal with things myself. And I don't know if I was willing to let it go, even though it sounded good. Yeah, God, I love you and all of that. But I had to go through it. And I'll tell you another thing. My wife didn't even know this. Just prior to me getting locked up,

Our family, the Colombo family, went to war and it was over leadership. And I had a conversation with my father who was out at that time from parole. And he said to me, he said, you need to get back here. Family's going to war. We need you. Stop this nonsense that you're going through. He said, get hold of your mind. You need to come back.

And I'll be honest with you, there was such a pull on me because I felt like I'm betraying my guys. And the boss of my family, who I put a contract on my life, I said, okay, this is how I can end that, get in good, come back and do my thing. But I'm on parole. I can't leave. I couldn't leave the state without notifying them.

So I was really struggling with that. I was going to lie to my wife, tell her I had to do something in New York just to make an appearance and show up and see what's going on. Okay, if you guys need me, I'm here. Don't worry about it. And I was saying, okay, this is a way for me to get everybody off my back back there. And what happens? I get locked up. I'm walking out of the bank. And so I'm in jail from 91 to 95. The war lasted from 91 to 95.

13 men were killed during that war. 18 men turned informants and 63 men went to jail. Wow. And poor Michael was in solitary. Where my life was being saved.

And I was becoming a Christian. God's grace, please. I can't handle it. It's just so crazy how God will, he kept chasing you and chasing you. He brings your beautiful wife, Cammie, into your life and you're still now. And then what are the odds that the prison guard slips that Bible into your cell and you just had that little bit, a seed of faith to just open it and start reading it and it changed everything. You know what else happened that night? I forgot. This was important.

They were transporting me back to Brooklyn in the morning and then bringing me back to the prison. When you get transported like that, you can't even bring a tissue with you. Nothing. They won't let you take anything. So as they're shackling me and everything, I'm reading the Bible as he's shackling me. So the CO says, okay, the marshal put it down. I said, I want to take it with me. He said, come on, Mike, you know better. You can't take it. I said, I want my Bible. He said, you can't have it. I said, I want my Bible. And he looked at me and said, okay.

Wow. Yes. And so I'm reading the whole time. You know, I'll never forget when they took us off the plane. I forget exactly what happened, but I had to get on a bus to go someplace. It was free. No, no, no. This was afterwards. I had my Bible the whole time, and they were bringing me to another penitentiary to take me to my final destination. It was freezing cold out, and we were in a T-shirt. You know, they don't give you anything. We're standing outside shackled and everything for about—

hour and a half. It was that long. And I'm reading my Bible during that time. And you know what I remember? I said, I wasn't even cold. And everybody's freezing. I remember one guy falling down. He was like, you know, it was really cold. I was in Pennsylvania. And I wasn't even cold. What?

And I thought about that afterwards. And when I got in, I said, you know, it wasn't that cold. The guys are looking at me like, what do you want? You drinking something? You take something? Yeah. And strange things happen. Strange things happen. I'm thinking about there's this story about because it's been on my heart so much recently how every time there's a bad situation in our lives, you can't panic right away because you have no idea what God is doing behind the scenes. Sure.

And every time we think something is a bad thing, He's always able to use it for good. And oftentimes, it's not that God makes bad things happen to you, but there's even a purpose in the bad things that happen to you. So you being in prison was literally, or in jail, what is it? In isolation.

was God's grace on your life. He kept you out of more trouble. He kept you away from being potentially killed. So a bad situation in your life was actually his grace on your life. It's so crazy to think about. I have a couple of questions for you just based on

Back to your family, you told us a lot about your family, and I'm so sorry for everything you've gone through. And I know that, you know, Ari and I deal with things and people deal with things to do with their family. And it's so hard when your family is attacked. And it's so hard when just your home life is rocked.

and generational curses and generational sin is passed down. It says in scripture that we pay for the sins of our parents and their parents and their parents. And so you're in this situation where it sounds like you and your siblings are paying for generational sin and it's affecting everyone.

And then I look at you and it's like you're the one in your family who God's grace covered you and protected you. And I even wrestle with myself sometimes that I'm like, because I see this in families all the time, how it's chaos for every single person. And then it's as if God saves one of them. And it's hard for me sometimes because I'm like, God, just come through for the whole family.

But for you, you're in this situation where God's grace and His favor are on your life no matter how bad things are sometimes. And I wonder for you, because now you have a beautiful wife and you have four beautiful children and you love your family. You really do. And you love your wife and you bring them with you and you're respectful and you're faithful and you make sure that everything you do surrounds your family.

And I just wonder for you, when you grew up in a somewhat of a rocky situation, what has made you so stable in your family? Well, you know, my dad was all about family. Yeah. It was very, very important to him. And

One of the things that I respected about him, and there were many at the time, is that he never brought what was going on in the outside world into the house. In the house, we were a family. And he tried to keep it that way. And he stressed that brothers and sisters had to be close. And...

You know, so I mean, I grew up, Italians kind of have that, you know, so I grew up that way. And my dad was one of 19 kids. So all of my cousins and, you know, my grandfather, initially, we all had to be with him on a Sunday. You know, it was all about family. So, you know, I grew up that way. And my mom, my mom was a very difficult woman.

And, you know, her and I, I loved my mom, but we were like this all the time because I was the oldest. She was very tough on me. I always say, you know, my dad might have gave me some wisdom. My mom made me tough. It wasn't my dad made me, my mom. She did not spare the rod. And she was just, she was rough. But I loved her. And, you know...

One of the regrets that I have, my mother and father had a very volatile relationship. They really did. It was a lot of stuff going back and forth. I always took my dad's side, always. And I never understood her side that well until later on in life. I had this conversation with my dad once. My mom passed away, so I go to see my dad in prison. We tried to get him out for the funeral. They wouldn't let him go. And we're in the attorney's room because they let us have that kind of private visit being that she passed away.

And we're talking, and I said to him, you know, Dad, our whole family is destroyed. And he just looked at me, and his first reaction was, it wasn't my fault. I said, well, how can you say that? He said, I was framed. I went to jail for a crime I didn't commit. It wasn't my fault. I said, but Dad, you didn't get framed because you were a doctor, a lawyer, or a priest. We're criminals. We got framed. I mean, it's part of the life. Yeah. He wouldn't take responsibility for it. And I got a little upset with him at that point. I said, well, who are you blaming? Mm-hmm.

And he kind of put the weight on my mom for, you know, she said, come on, Dad, you know. And it was really like a little bit of a turning point with he and I. I still love him. Don't get me wrong. And my dad, you know, we had, you know, I'll tell you what really happened also. And we have so many defining moments in our life that I think the Lord allows us to go through. Doesn't cause us to go through, but he allows it because if we turn towards him, we find the meaning in all of this.

And there was a betrayal. My dad betrayed me. One of the horrors of that life is that you make a mistake, your best friend walks you into a room, and you don't walk out again. Wow. That's it. And unfortunately and obviously through the 20 years of my lifetime, I saw that happen. Well, I had that experience one night. They were walking me into a room, and I thought it might have been the last day of my life.

And there was two meetings I took out of this now because I was getting out of a car and I was walking about 30 yards into a basement apartment where I had to meet with the boss. And there was a lot of talk on the street. I was making a lot of money and just, you know, mob nonsense. And I had a guy walking behind me who was one of my best friends.

And another guy behind him. And I'm saying, this is a bad setup. And, you know, I tell you this. It was a summer day. It was a day in August. When I tell this story, I can see the fireflies. And I can smell the fragrance of the flowers. Because my senses got so high. And I started praying. I wasn't religious at all, but I'm praying.

I found it, when you think you're going to meet your maker, no matter, you pray. And somebody said to me, Michael, why didn't you cut and run? You had the ability to do that. I said, it wasn't heroic. It was just robotic. I was part of that life. And I say, if this is it, this is it. But I was scared. I mean, I was really scared. I don't know how I didn't faint. And I'm walking down the stairs and the door opens. And I know the setup, it would have been over quick, right? Well, I'm here. So it worked out. But- Wow. Yeah.

My dad betrayed me that night because I found out he was in the room before me and he didn't have my back. It was devastating to me when I found that out. I never even said a word about it. Never said a word to him. In that life, you keep your mouth shut. You just keep your mouth shut. But I can tell you this.

That betrayal hurt so bad that I believe that God had to use that moment to break my bond with my earthly father. Wow. Wow. In order for me one day to come to my heavenly father, because I met my wife two years after that happened. Wow. Two years afterward. But I always say it. If that didn't happen, would I have really went the route I went? I don't think so.

Oh, again, another situation that is so bad, but is God's grace on your life. You had to break that demonic bond of being involved in all of this. And you love your dad so much and you idolize him that you'll make him happy no matter the cost. Like you want him to be proud of you no matter the cost. I would love if you could speak to, because I imagine that maybe there are people in gangs who watch Girls Gone Bible. You never know. But I know that any person...

has the desire sometimes to be involved in things that aren't good for them, but it brings them either safety or security or pleasure or whatever it may be. And, or it brings financial freedom. It brings financial blessing. And could you speak into that a little bit about how going the route of how God wants you to live is the most beneficial. It's the most rewarding. And it's the only thing that brings you true satisfaction and security in your life. And just speak to them into how,

just anything to do with this situation. Yeah, and you know, one thing I want people to understand, and I've been stressing this a lot lately because this is something that I wasn't even conscious of for a while. I had, you know, I've given my testimony probably 2,000 times all over the world.

And one day I was in Beth Israel Church, Pastor Jonathan Kahn. He was a rabbi turned Christian. Brilliant. I mean, you got to read some of his books. Brilliant Bible scholar, really prophetic. And I was at his church and I had talked about the oath that I took.

And I get off the stage and I walk down to Center Island. Some guy, shady looking guy, because I'm in New Jersey now. I got to watch everybody, right? And he comes up to me and I look at him right away and he puts his hands on my shoulders. And he says, I have to tell you something. I said, what? He says, when you said that oath, he said, Michael, I had a vision of Satan standing behind you with his hands on your shoulders saying,

looking up at the sky and saying, ìIíll show you what born again means. I got one of yours.î He looked at me and I got the chills when he said that because I never really got it that way. Born again.

And then I said, aha. I said, this is what the enemy does to us. He has two functions in my view. And I think biblically I'm supported on this. Number one, separate us from God. You're not good enough. God can never use you. He has no purpose in your life. You're a bust out. You're a drug addict. He can never use you. Separate us. And he has so many vehicles to do, a phone, everything else to separate us. Right.

And secondly, he wants to mock our God. And I always thought back to Jesus fasting for 40 days and 40 nights. The enemy appeared to him three times. Third time, what did he do? Showed him this vision of this amazing city.

and told Jesus, "You get on your knees and all of this will be yours." Now I would bet anything he knew Jesus wasn't going for that. He was mocking our God. - Wow. - So, and born again is mocking our God. That was a demonic. And I didn't realize at that time I was entering a demonic deal, but the enemy is very cagey. I thought it was the greatest thing in the world. I got your back, you got mine. Respect, honor, take care of my wife, my demonic, right?

That's how the enemy fools us. And it's the same thing with the gang life. And I feel bad for so many of these young people that I've met in prison.

That you can write the same script for every one of them. Broken home. No father figure in the house. Unfortunately, people think we don't need a father figure. We need fathers in the house. That's right. Oh, we're going to get into that. No father figure. Mom, young mom trying to do her best. You know, she's got her own situation. What happens? They gravitate to the street. Local gangbanger, local drug dealer. Before you know it, they have this family around them. Very deceptive. Hmm.

They end up in prison, God forbid something worse, because they look for that family and it's the devil's deception that this is where they're going to find him. You know, and I think his greatest tool right now is the breakup of the family. Yeah. That's why we have all of these problems, the traditional family.

And the enemy just keeps driving, you know, in that direction. And unfortunately, we're falling for it a lot in this country and in other places. So, yeah, my message to these young people is obviously, you know, the gang life, the mob life. It's the devil's work. Yeah. You got to stay away. And, you know, fortunately, I have credibility because everybody looks at the mafia as we're the premier gang in the whole world. So I have credibility and, you know,

You know, all the media I had, so, oh, man, this is a mob guy. So fortunately when I talk, they listen. But we, you know, we have to do more. I mean, we have to do more. And, you know, one of the things I tell young people, if you don't mind me babbling a little bit. Please, please, are you kidding? You know, when I came to Christ, from the time I was five years old, my father said to me, the standard that you have to live up to in life, you've got to be a man's man. Mm-hmm.

Treat women and children properly. Walk down the street, have integrity. Keep your word. He gave me this whole thing. My father taught me some good things. You know, he was off base in some things, but he taught me some good things. And so I always, when I got into the life, we're men above men. We're men of honor. So it was so much of this man thing.

That growing up as a Catholic, I had this wimpy view of Jesus. He's hanging on a cross and nobody ever talked about his manhood. It was always Jesus was the Savior. Okay. But they didn't talk about him as a man. So immediately my thing was, well, what kind of guy was he? So when I'm those first couple of nights in the hole, I separated his deity from his manhood. And I just looked at Jesus of Nazareth. What kind of guy was he?

Blown away. I mean, there was no greater man that ever walked the face of the earth. If you study the Gospels and look at Jesus of Nazareth, he was perfect in every way. And being so in tune with manhood, I noticed that right away. It got me. I said, wow.

So here's what I, you know, always trying to figure things out. I said, well, here's my simple deduction. If I try to emulate Jesus throughout my life, of course, I can't ever be that person, but I try. I'm going to be a better husband to my wife. I'm going to be a better father to my children. If I'm a boss, I'm going to treat my employees the right way. If I'm an employee, I'm going to give my boss an honest day's work, right?

Everybody in the community is going to benefit from me trying to emulate the greatest man that ever walked the face of the earth. And throughout my life, I'm going to benefit. And then I said, well, when I die, if he's not the savior of the world, well, I'm dead anyway. So what did I have to lose? But throughout my life, I had everything to gain. So I said, following Jesus is a win-win situation. You can't lose. And when I tell this to men, I just did a big men's group in St. Augustine, Florida. Yeah.

And guys, well, I never thought of it that way. I just will think of it that way now. You know, you have nothing to lose. You'll be a better person. Now, you're going to fall short. And that's why we have a gracious and merciful God that recognizes that you're never going to be perfect.

But he's going to know your heart. And if you get down on your knees and say, hey, Lord, I'm sorry and really mean it, you can't pull a scam on God. Yeah. Well, you got a second, third, fifth, hundredth, thousandth chance with him because he knows you're trying to improve. Wow. And, you know, you tell these young people that and hopefully it sinks in.

But, you know, the other thing is, too, I, you know, a lot of law enforcement agents, we got to come and talk to these kids. And I almost feel bad. I said, listen, I'm going to get them high. There's no question. But I can't do anything for them when they leave. Yeah. So what are you going to do? You can't tell them to go back to the street and reject their friends. That's dangerous. Yeah. So I said, unless you have a program to follow me up.

So that when I can lead them and say, hey, when you get out, you go to this church, you go to this ministry, you go here, and they're going to help you. You're going to get a lot more of what I gave you now. I won't do it because I know I'm possibly putting these kids in danger. So I've learned that throughout my life. You've got to give them followers.

So important. Thank you for saying that. I have such an—I know people who have been in and out of jail my whole life, and just the whole system in how they don't care. And I understand that there's so many people, and it's hard to care, but these people don't even have a fighting chance.

because they get out of jail, they're convicted felons, they'll never get a real job. What else are they going to go to? What are they going to resort back to? It's like that in the church as well. There's so much emphasis on evangelism and getting people saved and then so little discipleship. And so people are getting saved, but then there's no fruit because they don't actually know how to have a relationship with Jesus. And there's nobody walking hand in hand with them. And so you just spoke to both of those things. It's so important.

Let's start a petition or something. And the other thing is to make sense, when I spoke in front of the senator, it was a 9-11 anniversary. There was a senator that got up and we were talking about prison reform. And I looked at him. I said, do you care about your constituents? And he said, of course I do. I said, well, you know, you send these guys into prison. You give them nothing in there to help them rehabilitate. I said, no.

And then they come out. What do you expect? They're around other prisoners. They're around other people that did the same crimes. So what do they try to do? They try to be a better criminal so that when they come out, they won't get caught. I said, but if you give them something to really rehabilitate, then you're saving your community because now they come out and they have something to come out for. I said, prison isn't death. Prison isn't you stay there forever. These people have to come home. You have to prepare them.

Because what they don't understand is being in prison is the punishment. Well... You don't have to punish them when they get in there. That's the punishment. But they sometimes, you know...

Unfortunately, and not everybody, you know, I don't like to paint everybody with the same brush because there was some correctional officers in there, God didn't hand me the Bible, that had a heart. But basically they're told that inmates are the enemy. These are not good people. They committed crimes. They're bad. So they treat you mostly in that way. And I said, if you guys really care about your constituents, about the community, then you're going to prepare these people for release so that they don't wreak havoc again. Doesn't that make sense? Yeah.

And he said, yeah, it does. Well, how do you do that? I said, well, listen. I said, you got to come up with programs in there that make sense. Another thing that bothers me, okay, do you know that the recidivism rate in most state and federal prisons is about 65%? What is that? Recidivism. You come out, you go back. You come out, you go back. Recidivism. When they have Christian programs in there where they disciple people inside, disciple them outside, the recidivism rate goes down to 5%. Wow. Fact. Fact.

Why wouldn't you want all these programs in there? That's so wild. Yeah, 5%. That's so crazy. I know. Of course. Obviously. How are you supposed to get out and do anything for your life when you don't have any sort of support or guidance? Yeah.

You know, one of them said to me, well, yeah, I know, you know, some of you guys are born again until you're out again. I said, you know what? Don't sell God short. Yeah. I said, you don't know the impact God is having on their life. I said, remember this, you know, it's so easy to find God in prison.

I said, yeah, but don't forget, these guys have to come out and they have to deal with society again. They have to be locked up and they don't have anything. So it's not easy. It doesn't mean that their faith wasn't real. Their faith was real. Their commitment was real. But now it's in the real world. And who do they have to support them? That's why I'm telling you, give them a place. Give them a church. Give them something where they have someplace to go. Opportunity to work. Yeah. You know, my children went to an orthodontist in Santa Monica, I believe.

And he had all former inmates working as the, I forget what you call them. That's so beautiful. And they were preparing everybody, you know, tattooed up guys and everything. But they were so into what they were doing and they loved it and they were terrific. And he gave them all a chance and they did well. Wow. I love how you say that because it's like these people really do come from broken homes. Some people don't know better. They grew up just in such rough lives. They

They deserve a second chance. We need Jesus in schools. We need Jesus everywhere. They're taking it out of everywhere. We need Jesus in the family. We need families to stay together. We need for people to advocate for people to stay together and a father in the home and a mother in the home. You spoke to it earlier. I could go on about this all day. We have such an attack on the family unit right now because if the family unit crumbles, so does the rest of everything. And it is horrible.

heartbreaking to see. I mean, we're living in a world where there's so much emphasis on a father is not needed in the home. And I think 99% of the problems in the world come from not having a father present in the home. No doubt. And listen, you know, my wife, I give her all the credit and I was away for eight years, but she brought our kids up the right way. And we still have struggles with our children. And they're brought up in a Christian home, went to a Christian church and

But they're still out in the world and it's always a battle. Of course. And especially I found this out and you young ladies may experience it also. When you're in ministry, you're constantly under attack.

Oh, I can't even imagine the target that's on you and your family's back. Constantly. Of course. And, you know, you've got to navigate those waters and understand that everything is an attack from the enemy. Yeah. Every bad thing that happens, it's all an attack from the enemy. Yeah. There's no doubt. And sometimes we succumb, unfortunately, and sometimes we can fight it off. But

Like Paul says, put on the armor of the Holy Spirit. And, you know, I sometimes am neglectful. I get up in the morning and I'm reading the newspaper and I'm going through social media stuff because we're so in tune. I neglect my Bible. And I find out that all of a sudden something happens and I'm, God, why did this happen? Well...

You haven't been paying attention, have you? I know. I mean, this is what happens. You're on the defense rather than the offense. Yeah, absolutely. Well, we are so grateful for you, for your family, for your voice. Thank you for coming on and thank you for preaching the way that you do. We need people like you. We need men to come forth and be strong, masculine, bold men to teach other men how

That that's what that's the heart of Jesus. He is strong. He's a lamb, but he's also a lion. So we thank you for everything you do so much. Well, thank you both. And I can tell you this, you know, there's no question in my mind that,

if I don't meet my wife, that I wouldn't be here today. God put her in my life. That's right. And, you know, sometimes she'll turn around and she says, okay, I get why God did this for you, but why did he do this to me? Which, you know, she has a point there. I said, well, I never thought of that. But, you know, he sacrificed you to save me, I guess, in a way. That's so funny. But yeah, it's, she's been my rock. There's no doubt about it. And, um,

I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for her. Amen. Thank you, Jesus. No question. Thank you, Jesus. So grateful for you and your family. We're so grateful for you. Thank you. It's nice to sit down with a nice New Yorker. Thank you so much. Thank you. We are so appreciative of you guys. And your family and your beautiful wife and daughter. Thank you. Thanks for having me.

And keep doing what you're doing. It's great. And now I'll be watching you a little bit more because I didn't know who you were, honestly, but my girls obviously did. Do we pass the test, guys? Absolutely. Thank you so much. All right, you guys, thank you for watching. May the Lord bless you and keep you. May he make his face shine upon you and be gracious to you. May he turn his face towards you and give you peace. In Jesus' name, we love you guys. We love you guys so much.