The Best of the Year (So Far)!
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I'm not family. No cargo get any advice best way west go east There's no halfway with this we finish what we started Frank we will never have friends because there are no friends to be had Greetings and welcome

into the Ringerverse here on the Ringer Podcast Network. I'm Mallory Rubin, and it is my absolute pleasure to invite you not only to Paris, but also to join us on the Ringer's Nexus podcast feed for all things fandom. Joining me today, now that she's finished telling Rhodey I'll be dead from exhaustion and defeat soon enough, it's my House of R-Title.

co-host Joanna Robinson. Hey, Jo. Hey, okay. Exhaustion is often our mode, but this is quite the summer of rejuvenation, and I am quite filled with excitement and hope for the show that we have set up today. Me too. Just like invigorated by what we're going to talk about today.

Same. We are going to be sharing our best of the year so far lists, which we will explain in a moment. We are going to be checking in on Secret Invasion episode four. But before we break out the pappy, some quick programming reminders, as always, on the Ringerverse feed, which is popping. You can look forward to in the coming days, another video.

From Jessica Clemons, break it down the Easter eggs in episode four of Secret Invasion. Next week, the Midnight Boys, pew, pew, pew, will have a double feature draft. They will be drafting, in honor of Barbenheimer, toys and explosions. Tune in. That's all there is to say. The best, what? The best toys and explosions?

Yeah, it's a double feature draft in honor of Barbie and Amit Oppenheimer. Toys and explosions. Love that. An incredible idea. Love it. We will have a double feature of our own in a way, in a fashion for you next week because it's time for another Doctor Who check-in. House of Who will be back.

And we will also be checking in on Secret Invasion episode five, the penultimate episode of Secret Invasion. Jo, a quick reminder for everybody of the homework for the next Who check-in. Yeah. Next Who check-in. So we got an email from someone panicked that they had like missed this one. And yeah, it's shifted around a little on our schedule. But like, it is time. Will it move again? Who can say? It could. Maybe. Very possibly. Um.

But as of right now, it's fixed point in time and space is next week on the feed. We will be covering the end of David Tennant's run. That goes from the Voyage of the Damn Christmas special with the artist behind the hit of the summer, Kylie Minogue herself is on that episode of Doctor Who. Then we get the final full season of

With Donna Noble, Catherine Tate, and then the specials, the concluding specials. So that is what we were covering, just the tail end of David Tennant's run. And then after that, good news for your beloved Adam, Mally Rubin, it's Matt Smith time. So Adam's been waiting for Matt Smith to show up on Doctor Who. So that's next. But as of next week, it's just the tail end of David Tennant.

Actually, we're going to talk about David Tennant today at a certain point on this episode, and that's really exciting. Can I tell folks how to keep on top of everything? Please. Is that something I should do? Yeah, that would be great.

Well, I just want to say, in addition to talking about David Tennant on this feed next week, Mallory and I will be talking about a shared love, Timothy Oliphant, over on the Prestige TV podcast feed. It's Justified Week over on the Prestige TV podcast feed. So Mal and Chris Ryan and I are doing a Hall of Fame Justified episode, and then Rob Mahoney and I will be breaking down the...

slash season premiere of Justified City Primeval. Just very excited for that to talk about one of my favorite shows of all time, one of our shared favorite characters of all time, Raelan Gibbons. Can't wait. And it's happening over there.

Also just really want to quick, quickly shout out a trial by content and other show that I do that like, we've just been having a really good time over there. Um, this last week we talked about the best stunt in film history in honor of mission impossible dead reckoning. If you wanted my mission possible dead reckoning takes, that's where you'll find them next week. Uh,

Similar but yet different to the Midnight Boys. I love the way that the Midnight Boys have framed this. We're breaking down the best double features, literal double features of all time. So like the best weekends were two incredible films were at the box office at the same time. That is what we were talking about. And then we'll also obviously be talking about Barbenheimer. So how do you keep track of Prestige TV and The Ringiverse and Childlike Content? And is Mallory on the rewatchables this week? And like what is going on? Listen.

Why don't you just subscribe to literally every Ringer podcast? That might be a good thing to do. But also, follow us on social at Ringerverse, on Instagram, on Twitter, on TikTok, et cetera, et cetera. At The Ringer, if you want the larger sort of keeping up to date with everyone. Also, email us. If you're like in a panic, did I miss the Donna Doctor Who catch up? I'm here to tell you, no, you didn't. And that person emailed us at...

hobbitsanddragons at gmail.com. We also, in our best of 2023 that we're going to do this week, we also got a bunch of submissions from listeners of things that they were really excited about that Mal and I didn't catch up on that. I just wanted to make sure I got a shout out. So, you know, stay in touch. Send us your Doctor Who thoughts. We love to hear from you all all the time. And I think that is it. Mallory, what are we spoiling today?

Spoiler warning today is a little tricky, though it is, as always, a friendly neighborhood one. We will, of course, be talking about Beloved, which is the fourth episode of Secret Invasion. We'll be talking about all of Secret Invasion to date. Marvel, all of the MCU, Comics Canon, all of that is on the table, as always. And here's the thing. We're doing best of the year so far, which means that, in theory, anything that has aired in 2023 that has been released in 2023 will be on the table.

could come up today. We will, of course, announce the thing we are about to talk about. And so if there's a certain title that you are thinking, hey, maybe I'll go catch up and then head back and listen to that three-minute segment later, you can do that. You can zip around. We will...

Try to make this as safe of a space as it can possibly be on the spoiler front, but also we're going to be talking about the things that we thought really landed and why. So we will be talking about things that happened in shows, movies, books, comics, games, et cetera, that came out this year. Best of so far. Should we explain how the best of the year so far list is going to work, Jo? I'm dying to know. I'm dying to know, Mallory. Tell me. Here's the thing.

It's going to feel very familiar. Oh. To the house of our heads because we're doing a countdown. We're doing a 10 to 1 countdown where we will each be presenting our list to each other. I don't know what's on your list. You, in theory, don't know what's on my list, but I feel like you could probably sketch it out 10 to 1 largely in order. Maybe. Maybe a couple surprises in the order, but...

Probably only a few. I'm going to do that thing where I write down your number one. Yeah, I think you'll definitely know my top three. Maybe the order will surprise you, though. I don't think so. Okay. I'll probably be as predictable as ever. Why are we doing this now, Joe? Well, you know, it's July. So it's the time of the year when people do these things. They look back. They say, well, what have we enjoyed so far, right? What can we celebrate? What

what made us happy, what made us excited for the future, for more stories to come. Also, a little synergy here at The Ringer. You were just talking about all the wonderful pods we're doing. We've got some great stuff cooking at theringer.com. What a great website, too. What a great website. Yeah. Yeah. What a great website, including some best of pieces. You can check out Adam Namath's best movies of 2023, So Far Peace. Miles Suri has the best TV shows of 2023, So Far Peace. Check it all out. This will be...

ringerverse content, right? So, nerd culture, fandom, sci-fi, fantasy, genre storytelling doesn't necessarily mean that everything on this list will be something we have previously talked about on this pod. It just means it's something that we could have talked about on this pod. Maybe even wish that we had talked about on this pod. But,

And I think a good rule of thumb broadly is that if it was eligible for the 2023 hype draft when we were looking ahead, it's eligible today. Maybe something will come up that we'll discuss whether it technically is allowed to appear here, but I don't think so. This is a celebration, but it'll be great. Any questions? Concerns? I just want to clarify that in trying to predict your number one, it is not me saying I think you are predictable.

It is me. It is my love, my eternal love of concepts like the newlywed game where I like to show you that I know you. That's all I'm trying to do. Not that you're so, oh, so predictable. On the one hand, my list surprised me a bit. But on the other hand, I'm like, yeah, Joanna could probably nail this 10 to 1 without an issue. We'll see. I will reveal to you a little spoiler about my list, which is that it's all...

television shows and movies. I have a comic that I'll throw out later in my honorable mentions, but so much of my reading in the first six months of this year has been either revisiting stories on the work front or catching up on stuff like Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow, Clara and the Sun that I missed from

the last year or so. Yeah, but nothing, we were very strict with ourselves in terms of like it had to have come out this year. Had to have come out this year, right. It's not just new to us this year. It's did it actually come out this year? Correct. So when we do this at the end of the year, when we look back at our favorite things, our favorite moments, our favorite performances, our favorite releases, et cetera, maybe I'll have a

number of novels that have moved me and touched my life. That's my hope. But I look forward to hearing what's on your list on that front today. I'm excited. I'm excited. I love a reading, Rekha. Should we start? Should we just dive right in? Did you already say the thing about how if someone has an installment higher up, we'll talk about it later on the... Height meter style, moment style. If I have, let's say, for example, Quantumania. Yeah.

Just going with a title that we knew definitively would not be on either list. And thus it was safe to throw out as a false hypothetical. Love it.

I have Quantumania at 10 and Joanna has it at number one. One, my favorite movie of the year. Yeah. Yes. Then we would wait until we got to number one to talk about Quantumania. Correct. Yeah. Yep. Fantastic. Joe, let's get started. Let's hear number 10. Kick us off.

Number 10 on the list. And this is going to be an ongoing theme, a fairly consistent theme, which is that when it's something that we have covered together, I always wind up loving it more. This is not. Yeah. Just because like, you know. Oh.

Yeah, talking to you about something always makes me love it more. And just like spending that sort of marinating week to week in an ongoing story is always important for me, appreciating it. And then also if you add, let's say...

and musicals to it, then I'm going to have like an even better time. So I'm here to talk to you about Yellow Jackets unless you have it higher. So I don't... And this was one of my is this eligible questions. And then, of course, I know you had it on your hype draft at the top of the air. And we talked about the eligibility then. And, of course, the debate of the question of the supernatural is part of the fun of talking about Yellow Jackets. And so, of course, it's eligible. And...

I don't have it on my list. I had it as my first out. My first out. So similar placement, ultimately. Yeah. And it's like... And I... You know, we had our issues with season two. It wasn't as tight as season one for us. But talking about it every week with you over on the Prestige feed was, like, really fun for me. We talked a lot about a lot of genre stuff in terms of, like...

mythology and like, you know, witchcraft and all these other sort of occult things. And then also, yes, there's this ongoing question of like, is there something supernatural going on in this show? We don't know. And then also, I just need everyone to know that my life

love for Yellow Jackets was reignited this last week when Family Feud Celebrity Edition had their like premiere episodes and it was the adults Yellow Jackets versus the teen Yellow Jackets and it was so delightful. That's on Hulu. I recommend Yellow Jacket fans check it out. Watching Christina Ricci

Like thrilled to the bone to play Family Feud is not something I knew that I would love as much as I did. So anyway, Yellow Jackets, season two, number 10 on the list. I love it. There were two things for me that were really hard to leave off of my top 10. This was one of them. The other one I'll mention later in honorable mentions. I also had a blast talking about Yellow Jackets with you every week. Truly one of the most

enjoyable weekly theory fodder shows. Talking about that on the internet, podding about it every week. What a treat. What a treat. Remember when we got to pod about the finale in person in Sweden? What a time of us. Yeah, with Steve in Steve's hotel room. Poor Steve. What a gem. My number 10 is

This was one of the surprises. I did not anticipate that this would make my top 10, and I watched this very recently, and here it is, checking in at number 10. I had missed it in real time, caught up. I don't think this is going to be on your list, but maybe it will be. Super Mario Brothers. I was hoping you'd have it on your list. It's not on my list. I'm glad you have it on yours. Super Mario Brothers movie. I watched this really recently, and I'm blasted.

Joe, I had so much fun watching this movie. I found it surprisingly delightful and just like good, clean fun at the movies. Bowser as a lovesick loser.

Tremendous. Peach as a central driving force of the film as an action star while Luigi is relegated to brother in distress status. Fantastic, genuinely phenomenal modern update that I really appreciated and enjoyed.

I thought this was the good kind of nostalgia in a way that I frankly wasn't expecting it to be when I saw the trailer. And I was like, okay, sure. I'll check it out one day. But in an era of relentless, ceaseless IP, right?

The question of do we need a Super Mario Bros. movie is a fair one to ask. And without overstating things, I'll say that it felt like it existed for a reason. It was a way to get Mario in front of new people and also appeal to the fondness and affection that people who had grown up playing the games would have. This ported me back in a major, major, major way. It sent me down a pipe into my own memories. I was just thinking...

so palpably of like, I really could like see myself, you know, those memories you have where you're like looking down at yourself from above. I could just see myself sitting like cross-legged on the floor of my basement playing on my NES, playing Super Mario 3 when I was a kid for like hours and hours and hours on end. And then the thrill of playing Mario Kart for the first time. And I have like such vivid memories of when I got my N64 playing Super

Super Mario 64, being in that 3D world for the first time and just the, like, months of my life that I spent loving being in that world. And...

This is one of those truly striking Rotten Tomato Divide movies where you've got a critic score in the 50s and an audience score in the 90s, which I always think is kind of interesting. I just don't know what those critics were expecting from a Super Mario movie. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. It feeds into something else we might talk about higher up the list, but I think sometimes when these nostalgia properties come up,

I think some critics are looking for it to sort of

or re-examine or pull apart in a way that sort of like helps us understand why this was such a phenomenon in the first place or something like that. And some things have so much on there. You know, like I'm really interested to see what Greta Gerwig is about to do with Barbie. I haven't seen it yet, but like she has a lot on her mind when it comes to that. Like, I think that's great, but I think it's also great to just deliver a purely solid, efficient, you know, iteration of an IP that we enjoy. You know what I mean? So, yeah.

There it is. Boom. Love it. What's your nine? Also, Fun Fine Time at the Cinema comes in at number nine for me. It was on my hype list. I think everyone who saw it was like, oh. And some people were like, oh. But mostly people were like, oh. And it's Dungeons and Dragons, colon, Honor Among Thieves. And I just wanted to put it on here in case people did not make it to the cinema to see this. I kind of understand. Like me. Yeah, it was fun.

I still haven't seen this movie. To that level for you, but now that it's streaming, sort of similar to what you did with Mario, like, now that it's streaming, you might be like, oh, I didn't hear from a single person who didn't have a good time at this movie. You know what I mean? So, like, I had really,

I had really, really high hopes for it. It did not go as high as my beloved Game Night from the same filmmakers that I was sort of hoping it would go that high. So that's why it's not higher on the list. But I just had such a good time. Chris Pine just delivering one of his like iconic moments.

rakish sort of figures Hugh Grant having a phenomenal time being a bad guy which is just increasingly like his mode these days and it's fantastic um

And watching Michelle Rodriguez just, you know, absolutely pummel everything. I could watch her punch things all day long, personally. So, yeah, it was fun. It was funny. I think there are like a few too many like big CGI moments that I'm just like, I don't think you need these for like the way where the story really works are just like the smaller jokes and the character moments and stuff like that. So, yeah, check it out on streaming. Dungeons and Dragons, Honor Among Thieves, if you haven't.

I will. Do. Do that, Mallory. I can't wait. You'll be hearing from me. Okay. I'll be sending you my thoughts. My number nine, I am anticipating is higher on your list. Okay. We'll see.

Black Mirror, season six. No. Oh, twist. Twist. So not on your list. Interesting. Interesting. Interesting. Okay. We haven't gotten to talk about this yet. If anybody has not heard Joe and Van pod about the most recent season, you can catch a couple episodes on the Prestige TV podcast, including some wonderful thoughts about the series and as a whole, favorite episodes, least favorite episodes, et cetera. It was a real trip down memory lane. Loved it.

This was not my favorite Black Mirror season. This was a real mixed bag, but this was something that you and Van talked about a lot. Like, as always, I just found myself grateful to be with a new Black Mirror season and to, like, have the thought-provoking fodder to really, like, chew on. I... I had a genuine, like, did Maisie Day break Black Mirror crisis when I watched that episode? Like, seriously? But...

I am attempting to balance that with my sincere respect for Brooker and Co. wanting to reinvent and experiment and keep the format fresh and not just examine the same type of story and live in the same space season after season in the anthology. So play around with Red Mirror. That's fine. I really enjoyed...

Beyond the Sea, that was my favorite of the episode. I came down in the same spot as you guys that I would have liked it to be just a full-on feature-length film. Yeah. That would have been, I think, fantastic and maybe even like a classic. Absolutely haunting conclusion. So I haven't been able to really stop thinking about it. And, you know, nothing from this season cracked my Pantheon Hall of Fame Black Mirror episode list. Right.

But it's just great to have new Black Mirror episodes to noodle on. Always love a new Black Mirror season. So that's my number nine. I just want to flag something really quickly. We have just mentioned two shows, Black Mirror and Yellow Jackets, that we did not talk about on this feed. We talked about on the Prestige feed. And sometimes I get people asking, what goes on the Prestige feed and what goes on the Mirrorverse feed? My answer to you is don't worry about it. Just follow on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. We're right there for you.

All right. My number eight, I'm almost absolutely positive you have higher, which is The Mandalorian. I do have it higher. Okay. But only just. Yeah. Only just. We'll hold for... I wasn't sure Amanda was going to make your list. It has a question mark after. Which means that while I was making this list, I was like, I'm willing to bump you if I have like 10 more in front of you. But it made it. Oh, man. Okay.

Where, what's your eight then? My number eight is a show we had the pleasure of discussing last week. Silo. Season one of Silo. Great. Hit me with it. Okay. Silo, not on your list. No overlap yet. This is so interesting. This is kind of always what happens. We have like some overlap at the top and then at the bottom, it's just, it's chaos. Yeah.

We just chatted about this at length last week, so I'll keep this quick. I really enjoyed the first season of Silo, the Apple TV Plus series that recently concluded. In general, I remain quite enthusiastic about the Apple sci-fi universe and Apple's commitment to and investment in sci-fi storytelling, some of it original, some of it adaptive. I...

Part of the reason that this made my top 10 is because I really liked the season of TV and I'm eager to see future seasons of the show. But I think the real reason that it just nudged in ahead of a couple of the things that ended up being honorable mentions and just missing the cut...

because it did that thing that I love so much and genuinely like cherish. It made me want to fall deeper into the world. Right. So we had talked about in our other pod, how, you know, had wool on my bookshelf for like years and years and years and haven't gotten to it. And I'm kicking myself now that I hadn't gotten to it yet. But that,

That desire, like being rekindled to pick up the book and spend more time with the characters and learn more about the mythology and the fictional universe. Like I'm just ready to head further into the down deep. And that's one of the great feelings that you can have as a consumer. So here it is. Something that I really loved is like you and I both, I had to press pause on the we'll read

to read some other things that i will talk about because will did not come out in 2023 so we could not be eligible for this um but you know you and i read we dipped our toe into the beginning of it and we both really really responded to hugh howie's prose yeah beautiful um and made me just really excited to like even though i might know some of the main beats of the story that play out in season one already um i really want to hear in this storyteller's words

um, how, how that all plays out in his mind. So yeah, I'm really excited to read, read these books. Absolutely. Great.

You reveal your picks first, but I will just tell you that my seven is Mando. So we can talk about that now since that was your eight. This was one of the shocks of my list. I was like, it just feels wrong. Somehow it felt like I was betraying something about my very essence to not have Mando in my top five. But I do think this is an appropriate place on the list, ultimately. Take us through it, Jo. Why was Mandalorian season three your number eight?

I mean, we were really, really looking forward to it. Yeah. To say the least. Yeah. And, you know, coming off of

and sort of the somewhat mixed bag that was Obi-Wan, but the highs of Andor, we were just sort of like, you know, what's this, like, you know, fizzing from the highs of Andor and then thinking about like being with Grogu again. We were just sort of like, yes, take us back into this world that we love and Bo-Katan. And we did all this like Darksaber research and blah, blah, blah. And I just don't feel, and like, we talked about this plenty. I don't need to like continue to kick dirt on the season, but like,

We felt the palpable absence of Dave Filoni, who was busy working on Ahsoka. And so, like, some of the character...

the characters didn't always feel true to themselves. The character arcs didn't really feel like very smooth to us. Some of the decision-making just baffled us a bit. And some of the moments that we were looking forward to of like Bo-Katan claiming the saber, like all these like various things that we were just sort of like, this is going to be such a killer moment kind of felt up for us. So like, you know, always an,

An absolute delight to spend time with every sort of babble and coup from Grogu, obviously. Yeah, yeah. But it's not higher because, you know, it didn't fully feel like it was firing on all cylinders. What do you want to say about it? Yeah, I feel similarly. You know, an imperfect, at times, disappointing season of television that still delivered, like, just enough of the highs to delight me in those bursts and then keep me hopeful for the future...

What you were saying earlier about the way that something sticks with you, it stays in your mind, it stays in your heart. After we have gotten to spend like week after week talking about it together, like that's ultimately the counterweight and the slightly heavier weight than my bafflement of still and forever over like the Darksaber or the...

struggle to properly balance and deploy the different character sets. You know, you think about certain episodes that really worked and felt like dynamic and propulsive and like that right blend of the specific Mando brew with that widening of the Mandalore story, you know, something like chapter 18, the second episode of the season, or chapter 23, the penultimate episode of the season, which were like excellent and reminded you of what Mando could feel like at its best. Um...

Even when the episodes didn't work, being in the Mandalorian world and talking about it every week with you and being with Grogu is still one of the things that when I'm thinking back on the last six months, like, I had the most fun doing and meant the most to me. Like, Grogu, our little burbling, cooing gumdrop. I just miss him so much. I can't wait to be back with him, Jo. I'm so interested to see...

especially, you know, on the heels of the newest Ahsoka trailer, which we'll chat about for a few minutes a little bit later, being so Sabine-centric, which is just like an absolute thrill to me. What the overall role of like Mandalorian culture is in the live action Filoni-verse moving forward as we work toward this connected story in the movie and everything that's happening there. And then you think of like,

Part of what made the penultimate episode of season three so fun, like the shadow council scene and hearing the Thrawn mentions and the moments where the season more successfully attempted to show us how this stretch of Star Wars canon is going to work to build that bridge to the First Order. Those are things that I'm excited about. And then, you know, in some ways, I think like the...

regressive nature of season three, like not really clicking on all cylinders when they tried to widen the scope and then going back and shrinking is like disappointing in some ways because widening to properly feature all of these other characters is part of what was like exciting about the premise of season three. Yeah. But at the end of the day, like we get that final shot of Grogu and Din and we get that promise of Din Grogu, a Mandalorian apprentice and Din taking him out.

on his journeys, just as your teacher did for you. And I'm like, when we get the first image for season four, when we get the first trailer for season four, I will be right back in this seat. You're going to be in. Sitting in front of this microphone saying, I've never wanted anything as badly in my life as I do to see Krogo in season four of The Mandalorian. And that's just the power the show has over me, though this season was far and away the least successful of the three to date. So, seven. Here we are.

I wonder if we'll see Pedro Pascal again. I don't know. RIP to Pirate King, Gorian Shard. Remember that guy? Forever in my heart. Alive forever in my heart. This episode is brought to you by Peloton. You know, for me, fitness has always been about finding that groove, whether it's hitting the pavement outside, which I've done a lot of, or dialing up a sweat session indoors.

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What is your seven? Because that was mine. Number seven. Yeah. It's a pretty recent thing. Just dropped a couple weeks ago on Netflix based on a comic that I loved with all my heart. It is Nimona. Do you have Nimona on your list? I haven't gotten to watch it yet, though. I have the graphic novel and I'm so excited to...

to see it. Tell me. Tell me what you loved about it. I was really excited for this. Yeah, the only reason... I mean, so this is a really charming... This is a film adaptation of Andy Stevenson's graphic novel, Nimona, which I love. I love that graphic novel so much. This was a Jason Manzoukas recommendation. You and Zouk liking the same thing. It's the seal of approval that every Riververse listener needs. The...

This has been in development hell forever, Nimona. It was supposed to be adapted a long time ago. So the fact that it finally exists thrills me. Chloe Grace Moritz voices Nimona, who's a shapeshifter, and Riz Ahmed voices Ballester Boldheart, who is this disgraced knight who is...

you know, considered the arch villain of this town. They made a bunch of changes to the film that sort of soften what is like so delightfully sharp about the graphic novel in a way that I'm like, I don't, I think we could have tolerated some of these sharper edges in, in Andy Stevenson's story. Andy Stevenson, by the way, if you have not followed their career, was responsible for the Netflix She-Ra show, which was phenomenal. So, but,

but not a writer on this film adaptation of their work because I believe they sold the rights away when, you know, they were sort of more starting out in the industry, hadn't done Shiri yet, et cetera. So the design was cool. The shape-shifting was really fun. The relationship between Nimona and Ballister is really fun. And Nimona as a character, as just this like mischievous character

Evil, like wanting to do evil character is really fun. You know, and this is just like a fun, fine time at the Netflix. It's a brisk 99 minutes.

You know, there's just some, like, real great comedy. Beck Bennett as Sir Sherblade, this, like, absolute dunce of a bro of a knight is really fun. And then there's Eugene Lee Yang's performances in Broge's Golden Loin. So, you know, it's just... It's a fun send-up of a lot of fantasy tropes that we love. A character in Nimona that is just, like, absolutely...

just impossible not to root for. And yeah, this is a sneaky recommendation for the graphic novel, really. But I want people to watch the film as well. And as I said, it's a low, low investment. 99 minutes. You got time to do that. So yeah. I'm really fascinated to see how they adapted it. I'm excited to watch it. Can't wait. Okay. What's your number six? Roll right in.

Oh, you may have this higher. Guardians of the Galaxy Volume 3. I have it higher. Okay. What's your number six? Asteroid City. Nice. I don't have it on my list. Hit me with it. I fucking loved this movie. Tell me why. Tell me. It's just like the vintage quintessential Wes Anderson. Something that...

A through line, I think, of the ringerverse conversation in, let's say, the last year or so is just some of this stuff. And this stuff, I mean, more broadly, right? Like, just feel...

Too samey, right? And so, like, when something is in front of us that is so specifically and utterly itself and, like, could only have sprung from one mind, I'm just finding that, like, really energizing right now. The cast is obviously incredible. The visual palette was so inventive. I...

loved the structure of this, which I won't spoil, but the way that the story is presented to us, I thought was just like really creative and

I guess mileage may vary on that because I think some people might find it a little bit impenetrable or like overly fussy, but I really liked it. I thought it was really, really clever and smart. And the themes in the heart of the story are ones that I typically respond to and thought were explored really deftly and effectively here through the strength of the

writing and the performances, you know, the questions of how you cope with grief and what it feels like to be an outsider and when isolation that you're feeling already is made so literal because of a certain circumstance. Like, I think that that can be a very poignant sandbox to play in, you know, searching for purpose and belonging and just more broadly that idea of discovery, you

I thought that the young characters, the brainiac kids in the movie, like, I would have loved even more time with them. I mean, the adult cast is obviously remarkable, but, like...

What does it feel like to be a young person who's trying to make your way in the world and you know that you're like capable of something great, but you can't really find other people who accept you and then suddenly you do. And what does that unlock for you? Um, I've only seen this one so far, but I think that it'll stick with me. And I, I feel already that it will be a movie that I really enjoy like revisiting and returning to in the future, which is often how I feel about Wes Anderson movies. So I really love this. Just thought it was a delight. Excellent. Um,

Yeah, I was a little bit more mixed on it, especially in my larger love of Wes Anderson. This was a slight return to form, but I was so out on French Dispatch that I think I was still feeling a little bit of the... There's layers of narrative in this, right? Because there's frame narrative within frame narrative within frame narrative of this. And so I think there was... I don't know that I would say impenetrable was what I would call it, but I would just...

What I always want Wes Anderson to do is to try to access... He's so good at aesthetic and so good at visual humor, like with using the camera for visual humor or using the aesthetic setup for visual humor. And what I really am always looking for in a Wes Anderson film is also a lot of heart, which I think...

for me comes through in like Royal Tenenbaums or Grand Budapest Hotel and is like a little less for me here. But we talked about this on Trial by Content in the context of first contact movies in general, like the history of first contact movies. And that was really interesting to me to like, because to look at the larger lens of how filmmakers use first contact as a way to explore, like,

As you say, like our space in the universe, belonging, like blah, blah, blah. But the way in which Wes Anderson was drilling down on like...

as like a component of that I thought was really interesting. And then I just need- With a sense of searching. Searching for something, you know? Yearning, yeah, yeah. And connection, et cetera. When you have like human characters communicating like through opposite windowsills or across balconies and stuff like that. I thought the scene with that heart, that like beating heart that I was looking for, there's a scene with Margot Robbie. I thought that just like

That was great. Absolutely stunning. And then I just need to shout out, I said this already on Childlike Content, but I'll say it here. The absolutely slutty, tight white t-shirt that Adrian Brody wears in this film needs to be remarked upon. Sensational. Sensational. Astonishing, honestly. 10 out of 10 no-notes territory. It's the only thing that has made me reassess our very entrenched ringer-wide fondness for all of the layers you wore in Succession. It's like, what if you hadn't?

been wearing so many layers. Just Marlon Brando's t-shirt from Streetcar Named Desire. What if it were just that? Incredible. Okay. Delightful. What is we're heading into the top five here. What is your number five? I think you have my number five higher Dial of Destiny. I do. I have it slightly higher. Only slightly. What's your number five? My number five I don't think is on your list. It's about one of my favorite superheroes.

He's got the iconic, instantly associated, recognizable suit. He's got the super strength, the super speed. Certainly the astonishing healing factor. He's got that signature brevity of a lone vigilante. He operates inside of a mythology that reveals itself to us further beyond

Film after film, it's lurking in the shadows of society, a stinking secret onion of crime and corruption and control. I am speaking, of course, of John Wick. Oh, John Wick. I thought you were talking about Dominic Toretto. John Wick, yeah. Could have gone either way for a minute there. Phenomenal. I actually, honestly, I should have had John Wick on my list. I thought this would be on your list, yeah. Yeah, it should have been on there, yeah.

What an awe-inspiring spectacle this movie is. Holy fuck. Just astonishing, operatic, balletic violence. There's this glow and sheen and mist to every sequence. The fight and stunt choreography, even inside of a franchise that has elevated that to a really rarefied art form, was like...

flabbergasting in this movie. Everything that happened in Paris was just astonishing. Wouldn't be me if I didn't remark upon our newest pup pal, Mr. Nobody's Dog. Just protect at all costs. I guess this is where if Steve had known our picks in advance, he'd have a soundboard entry ready just to say, nuts! I haven't gotten to

with you yet. Yeah. About Bill Skarsgård's French accent as Marquis, but I would love to hear your thoughts should you be inclined to share them.

It's very special. It's very special to me. You know, my favorite thing about John Wick 4 on the Bill Skarsgård beat is how many texts you and I have received from Van Lathan about how hot Bill Skarsgård is in that movie. How Van is like, this is the pinnacle of masculine attraction to me. Which I think has a lot to do with the suits. Yeah, exactly. The fashion is astonishing. It's always great, Jo, to be with

Donnie Yen, really liked the Kane character. I, of course, never, ever, as a rule that I hold sacred and dear, turn down the opportunity to spend time with Ian McShane. Never. That's a great life rule. Great mantra to live by. Yeah, yeah. It's one of my truest North Stars. And, you know, great work from our guy Keanu. Loving husband. I thought Donnie Yen was...

so delightful in this movie. Oh, he was wonderful. So good. Everything that happened, like the stairway sequence up to like the final duel, everything that's happening there. Yeah. Really, really great addition. And like, it just made me yearn for like more Donnie Yen films, like, which, you know, exist in the world, but I want even more. Okay. My turn?

It is. Number four? You're at number four. Yeah. Guess what? I have one that I know you don't have. Okay. Here we go. It is, and I have a smuggle here too. Coming in at number four. Is this our first smuggle of the pod? What's wrong with us? I don't know. It's astonishing, really. But I think I have a whole bunch of smuggles at the top, so it's going to be okay. Okay.

Coming in at number four, and it might have been even higher, but it's mid-season, so I cannot rank it higher. It is Star Trek Strange New Worlds, and I'm just going to small tuck right in underneath it. Yeah. Picard season three, which was also fantastic. Star Trek fans are just like,

absolutely eating this year. Like this is just incredible time for Star Trek content. We don't talk about Star Trek a lot on this feed. I, if all goes according to plan again, things, things come and go, but if all goes according to plan, Ben Lindbergh and I will be doing a wrap up of strange new worlds at the end of this season. But like as much, and I've talked to

about like how much I enjoyed season one. As much as I enjoyed season one, season two is just like on a whole new level. And like, I had been excited for this, you know, when CBS was like launching CBS All Access and now we're like, you know, it's,

hard to track where the Star Trek properties are living these days. But like when that all happened and there was this like big Star Trek content revival, I was so excited and nothing was really hitting the way that I wanted it to hit. Not even like the first couple of seasons of Picard, which I was so excited about. And then Strange New Worlds, which is, you know, a, a alt timeline prequel-ish series. You've got characters that you recognize like Spock, uh,

Uh, or Uhura, et cetera, et cetera. You've got Christopher Pike, who is a known Star Trek character, but like, this is the most time we've gotten to spend with him played by the great Anson Mount, phenomenal Star Trek captain. Like one of the top tier all time Star Trek captains is Anson Mount as, as, uh, Christopher Pike, uh,

Ethan Peck, Gregory Peck's grandson is Spock is also just absolutely incredible on this show. I'm having such a good time with straight new worlds. We're five episodes into a 10 episode season. So like it could go off a cliff. So, you know, let's just, let's just asterisk like this here in case things go horribly wrong in the back of the season, but having such a great time. And then Picard, the Picard smuggle, um, when Picard launched, uh,

They were trying so hard to be like, we're going to do something so different from the, from next generation. You know, Patrick Stewart said like, I don't want to come back if we're just doing next gen 2.0. I don't want to do that. And then like, everyone's like, okay, but that's kind of what we want. And so by season three, they're like, nevermind. It's just next gen. We just brought all the actors you love from next gen. And we're just going to do a next generation sort of revival for you. So season three, yeah.

you know, as much as I love for like reboots or revivals to explore, you know, seek out new life, uh, new civilizations to boldly go in new directions, uh, bringing back all the faves for Picard season three was, was the right move. And, and it's just, yeah, it's a great time for, for, for Trekkies. So fantastic. Yeah. I love it. This is where I have dial of destiny at four. So talk about it. What did you love about dial of destiny? Um,

If anyone hasn't heard already. If you want to hear us talk at length about what we love about Dial of Destiny, we did do a Ringerverse episode about this. And then if you want to hear Mallory talk about it, you have two episodes of Big Pick that you can listen to to hear Mall talk about Dial of Destiny. But we just like, we had just like a fun, like speaking about nostalgia, like,

Speaking to James Mangold, as we did on that episode of The Ring Reverse about Dial of Destiny, about sort of what was on his mind in wanting to tell this story, I think, again, this is like a...

I'm having like a real critical consensus off year, like where people like critical consensus is Mario is bad. And I'm like, Mario is a fun, fun time with movies. Critical consensus is that Dial of Destiny doesn't live up to its potential. I'm like, I think Dial of Destiny is great. Critical consensus is that Dead Reckoning is the second coming of Jesus. And I'm like, I'm not there with that. So like, I'm just like,

Just like, oh, critical consensus this year. But, you know, Dial of Destiny, a lot of the criticism was that it was like an empty nostalgia grab. And I just didn't feel that at all. I felt like it had so much to say about like legacy, about growing older, about all of this stuff. Like there's just so much meat on the bone there. And then in the mix with like just a fuller,

fun romp of an adventure. Phoebe Waller-Bridge is an incredible addition to this universe. You and I got really emotional with the ending. You and I spent like a month watching Harrison Ford films for this other thing that we did and we just, we just like marinating in like Harrison Ford for a long time of this year. So like,

Like, you know, and, you know, a great point that you've been raising all over the shop is, like, between shrinking and this and other things, like, we are just, like, living in this era. You and I have, like, currently a designated chat group that is just Harrison Ford, like, social media appearances because they're all so delightful. So, you know, that's all in the soup, too. Tell me what do you – how do you –

How did you feel about Dial of Destiny? I agree. I remain incredibly fond of this film, really delighted by it, and frankly baffled by it. And people are allowed to have different opinions. That's completely fine. I just, like you said, I'm sincerely confused by the response to this one, and that's okay. I feel...

As we have now chronicled at length, genuinely grateful for this recent Harrison Ford experience, which has been a treat and a joy and a wonder to behold. I am grateful that we have now a non-Crystal Skull capper to the Harrison Ford Indiana Jones car.

era and experience, which is one of the most central and elemental experiences of our lives as moviegoers. Like, this is just a better place to have left his stretch of the franchise. I say it that way because I think we all assume that one day there will be a different stretch of the franchise. Though, who knows? Here, and for many of the reasons that you said, I think that Mangold's examination of

Growing older, of evolving legacy, of thinking about your relationships and the choices that you've made and your role in a changing world, you know, that juxtaposition that we had a lot of fun talking about of a guy like Indy who is so, in so many respects, like deeply linked to and associated with the past, with history. Yeah.

Walking through a moon day parade, right? And these signs and indicators everywhere of progress in the future and him having to confront what that means for him. And then you pair that with these really emotional character beats on the Marion front and the Sala front. Like, I have not stopped thinking about

Salah's saying, I miss the desert. I miss the sea. I miss waking up every morning wondering what wonderful adventure the new day will bring to us. Because one of the joys of the Indiana Jones franchise is that those movies gave us new adventures, right? And so we got another one here, and that's something to cherish. I'm just really genuinely glad we did. And you already mentioned Wombat.

Phoebe fucking crushed it. She was incredible. She was electric. So this was in a lot of respects. Is it a perfect movie? Of course not. We talked about the reasons why in our pod, but in many respects, this would have been what we would have said we wanted, I think, out of a late stage send off from...

Henry Jones Jr. So I'm thrilled that we got it. And I will happily rewatch this movie for the rest of my life. That's how I feel about it. What do you have at three? Wait, four, three. Yeah. No, I've done my four. You've done your four. We're in the top three now. Sorry. Yeah. You might have this higher across the Spider-Verse. I'm floored this isn't your number one. Okay.

Wow. This would have been what I penciled in for your number one. Okay. I have it higher. Yeah. Great. This is where I have Guardians 3. Let's talk about Guardians. You go first. Remind us where you had Guardians. You had Guardians at 6. 6. Yeah. The inimitable James Gunn quality that is coursing through every frame of this movie is

The vibrant, raucous, extremely touching blend that feels like so particular to this franchise that I love. I love all the Guardians movies. I loved this movie. I was really glad in a more macro sense to have a brief,

but fair moment on the internet and in our lives where people were excited to watch a new Marvel thing together and then talk about it. Like, that was really nice. It was very important. That was great. I'm glad that we got to enjoy that together. You know, on the Marvel front, like, we talked about this a lot in our deep dive pod, but I've been thinking about it more and more since. Like, that increasingly rare Marvel thing that this movie had

a conclusion. Now, does it have aspects of it that don't conclude? Did we get a Star-Lord?

tag at the end. Of course, we're inside of the MCU, but so much of this was about paying off our time with the characters, honoring our time with the characters, and taking their arcs to a place that were like, I thought, really genuinely emotionally fulfilling, whether it's Peter and Gamora and Nebula or this character

and duo that we have quickly, relatively speaking, become so invested in on the Drax and Mantis front. And of course, like everything, I mean, it's very much a Rocket movie. Rocket we've been with for quite some time now, but to get...

so much time with Batch 89 in this film, in Volume 3, with Lila, Tiefs, and Floor. It just shredded me. Like, the sequence where they're choosing their names, that found family for Rocket, and the way that it helped us understand what it meant for him to forge a found family a second time, just, like, really meaningful. I keep thinking about that. It's good to have friends line. It's just heart-wrenching. It's so sad. Yeah.

When we think back to, like, Rockets Volume 1, I didn't ask to get made scene. One that we've talked about a lot, right? And really, like, worked its way into our hearts. Or the famous Quill T.

team-up speech, right? To give a shit for once, not run away, also for volume one. Or like Drax in volume two, the two types of people in the universe, those who dance and those who don't. Like, so many moments from the first two Guardians films and, you know, the characters' appearances elsewhere in the MCU that we can point to and say that ended up mattering. Like, we felt the closure and the culmination of that in a way that

was impactful and sometimes it made us laugh and sometimes it made us cry and sometimes it made us like feel a twinge in our heart that is like almost astonishing to feel when you're looking at just like a picture of people sitting against a wall at the end of the credits. But that's what's fun about giving so much of your time to characters across a sprawling building, expanded, connected universe and then feeling like that

was as real for you as it was to the characters on the screen. Like, that's part of what I love about doing this and sharing this stuff with you guys. And, like, I felt that with Guardians 3, and I was glad that we got to. So, that's my number three. How about you? I thought it was a phenomenal send-off for James Gunn, who had just such a, like, monumental impact on the MCU, like, when the first Guardians movie came out and what that did to unlock potential for where the MCU felt like it could go next.

humor-wise or, like, you know, multiverse-wise or cosmic-wise and all that sort of stuff. And so I thought I was really glad, you know, there was a space and time where we thought we weren't going to get a final James Gunn Guardians movie. So I'm really glad that, like,

Disney brought James Gunn back in. He got to write this conclusion for the story that he started for these characters that the actors who wanted to exit the MCU had these like final, you know, similar to what we're saying about Dial of Destiny, just like a final, cool, conclusive story for their characters. A lot of closure, a lot of emotion, a lot of uplift, a lot of fun.

Yeah, and it's the only Marvel property on our list this year so far, and that's sort of astounding. But that's where we are right now. So, yeah. Boy. Okay, so we're heading into our top two. Yeah. My number two is Across the Spider-Verse, which was your number three, so we can talk about that now. I have no doubt that

My number one is... Well, I shouldn't say I have no doubt. I'm assuming my number one is one of your top two. And that means you have a complete surprise coming somewhere in your top two. So that's exciting. I don't know. I think I know one of your remaining two and I don't know the other. Okay. Spider-Verse. Your three, my two. Okay. What a phenomenal movie. It's great. And might have been...

Might have been my number one were it not for the more I sit with it, the more I'm like, it's hard for me to have a complete feeling about this, given that it's part one of two. And we are in a real epidemic of like part one of two movies. Wow. So Mission Impossible changed the way you felt about it.

spider-verse has it changed the way you felt about no i mean that's the thing is like uh i'm trying not to ding mission impossible for that because i'm not digging dune or i should say spider-verse for that i have not seen mission impossible and thus have not consumed any takes about mission impossible and so i don't know what i'm talking about on the mission possible front and cannot contribute carry on

But, I mean, we loved this movie. The fact that it's number three is not a ding on it. My top three are very strong, and so it's not like it's a shame to come in third on the list here for me. But I will say that, yeah, we just love this movie. We love being back into the Spider-Verse. We love the messaging that...

You know, that runs through this franchise of like anyone can wear the mask. We love the exploration of different animation styles. I've been really enjoying on TikTok watching the cosplayers come up. There's like a great Hobie cosplayer who is just like absolutely crushing it. And one of my favorite things about his costume is he's got like the really cool wig. And then he's got the like the blue lines in his wig to like, you know, like he's trying to like simulate the animation in his cosplay. It's so cool.

cool. Some like, you know, dads with their babies doing like Mayday Parker cosplay. So like that's, you know, that's all part of what we do here is like fandom. And I love seeing these stories then resonate out into the fandom and become part of the texture. And so then when you see, you know, I think, I think the cosplayers, those cosplayers were probably flexing at like Dragon Con or something like that. Like when you see like,

these cosplayers out in the wild and you see people recognize them and get excited about seeing them, stuff like that. And Across the Spider-Verse is so new, but it's already so exciting for people. And given the way in which the Spider-Verse opens up the doors for who can cosplay as a spider person is thrilling to me as well. And so that's all in the mix, in addition to all the stuff that we talked about on our episode about the film itself in terms of like,

what's going on with the parental figures in this movie and how like there are several scenes between Miles and his parents that like absolutely that, that, that feeling that you had with guardians three, that shredding, I felt emotionally shredded by across the spider verse, um, in many, many different moments. Um, Gwen and her dad, um, Shay Wiggum, innocent of any of my dead reckoning, uh, critiques. Um, and,

And again, that art style of that world, of the Stacey world. So, yeah. We're so lucky to have had this film. Yeah. What do you want to say about it? I love everything you just said. That, like, Gwen line to Miles, maybe some things are just for us. Yeah.

And there's a beauty in that, like in sharing something that is so intimate and particular to like your bond with another person. And then I like kind of flipping that on its head for all the reasons you just outlined. It's like this movie is for everyone. Like it's such a beautiful thing that we can all celebrate and share. It is this visual feast of multiversal splendor.

Really awe-inspiring. These indelible visuals and characters, this inventive, imaginative, fresh approach. The Miles-Gwen bond...

Wonderful. I'm just so deeply invested in their relationship. And it was such a beautiful movie for them and their individual arcs, their relationships with their parents, as you noted, but also the way that they're growing together. And then like the fact that it's never easy, like how they push and pull each other when there's tension, when there's a challenge, how they work through that. I, you know, I thought that everything was spot and the like we create our own demons idea was amazing.

quintessential and fun. And then to have like Miguel and the spider society positioned as this uncomfortable emergence of opposition, like the, that we're supposed to be the good guys. We are, we are idea and having to confront what it really looks like and means when you try to maintain or control some semblance of inevitability or order and how that like thwarts and inhibits, um,

the choice that is so central to the themes of the story, like, that anybody, like you said, can wear the mask of becoming who you are and who you're meant to be and finding people who, like, help you do that. There's so many, like,

wonderful figures across the film. Like I, I, one of the things we talked about in our deep dive was how we, we, we both wish that we had gotten even more time with Peter B and I, I still feel that way strongly, but like, I was really glad we got to spend time with Hobie and that we got to spend time with Pav and like meet all these new figures. So that was just really fun. And, um, I loved it. And, and I, I'm, I'm very eager for, uh,

The next installment. Truly can't wait. What a movie. What a movie. What's your number two? Is this the surprise or is this my number one? This is the surprise. We have the same number one as I thought we would. Oh, wonderful. Okay. I thought you might. Yeah, great. Go.

My number two, this is a shameless smuggle of a mini segment that I'm calling Book Corner with Jonah Robinson. All right. House of Reeds. House of Reeds and a little smuggle section. Knowing that we were going to do this and then I like looked around, I was like, oh my God, I haven't read any sci-fi fantasy in 2020 that came out in 2023. So I spent the last week devouring, you know, like,

that I had had from other people looking around to see what people were saying like were some of their top reads of the year. And I have three titles that I want to talk to you about. One is called Emily Wild's Encyclopedia of Fairies by Heather Fawcett. This was recommended to me actually when I took my Norway trip. It is set in 1909, 1910. It's an epistolary like, you know, told in letters and journal entries and stuff like that. A novel about an intrepid

lady professor from Cambridge who travels to an island off of Norway to observe their fairy folk. So she's like a scientist out trying to track down and observe the like, they're called the hidden fairy folk of this island. It's a very, it's like

a very cozy kind of story. There's like a mystery. There's a, there's like a little bit of a light romance, et cetera, et cetera. But the, I just want to talk about the elevated pros of this book because it is very, Jane Austen did not write in 1909, 1910, but you and I have a shared love of Jane Austen. That like, that dry observational, that thing that Austen does so well will, she will just,

say something about the way that someone did something and she doesn't have to make the joke. We get to rush in and make the joke ourselves about it. Do you know what I mean? And so it's just sort of like that kind of humor and wit is in this book. In addition to just like, again, elevate, like she's, Heather Fawcett is writing in the language of the time, which I think there's like a, and I'm going to talk about another book in a second. There's a rash of

of historical fantasy or whatever, or just like other world fantasy where people are deploying modern language and there's nothing wrong with that. But you and I love something like A Song in Weissenfeier or whatever, where we can just sort of like dissolve into elevated language, you know what I mean? And just marinate it. And that's what I felt this...

this delightful little book had to offer. Okay. Okay. Amazing. Next, none of the, I'm saving my best for last. Next is the book that a ton of our listeners wrote in about, and I want to shout out particular emails from Brendan, Ryan, and Ivy, particularly Juicy, recommendations from them. This is a hugely popular book. It's called

on like BookTok and stuff like that. It's called Fourth Wing by Rebecca Yaros. People wrote in really thinking, Mallory, that you would like it because it is an incredibly horny book, which it is. There's a trend. There's a trend in fantasy. There's a trend in fantasy right now for like...

bordering on erotica in this era. Like the Sarah J. Maas, A Quarter Thorn in Roses, all those books are incredibly popular where there's a lot of spice and lust mixed in with your genre storytelling. So this is like fourth wing, which is the first installment in what Yaros is calling the Empyrean series. And the second book is coming out in November. So the first two installments of the series are coming out the same year. And this is a new...

uh, trying and publishing as well of like, we're going to, we're dropped the first, it's like dropping the first two episodes, uh, you know, together. We're going to drop the first two books a couple months apart. So like you are like hooked into this series. Um, and yeah,

Here's what I'll say about this. Did I devour this quite long book very quickly? Yes. Was it exciting once I got past the first six chapters of oppressive exposition and worldbuilding? Yes.

Will it surprise you in any way? No. You know every single trope that's in this book, and this book borrows heavily from Potter, The Magician, Shadow and Bone, Game of Thrones, Hunger Games, Divergent, like all these stories that you know very well. You can just sort of like, yes, that's going on. This takes place at an academy, a militarized academy. I think it's called like War Universities. A militarized academy of young people wanting to become dragon riders. Yes.

and it is a cutthroat, oh, Maze Runner's also in there. It's a cutthroat curriculum. It's a three-year program. It's cutthroat because there's only so many dragons, and the dragons will choose the dragon rider. They will bond with you, but there are more cadets than there are dragons. So the cadets are just killing each other in order to like get to... Who can know the mind of such a beast? Exactly. This is, to go back to that whole like modern language thing, this is one of those books where like

a female lead character will call a guy toxic or, you know, they're just using like modern swear words or whatever. And I'm like, no, it's not the end of the world, but that's just, that is what is going on. So yeah, it's very addictive, sort of like, you know, book candy sort of thing. Amazing. And a lot of people fuck? I wouldn't say a lot of people fuck, but I will say the fucking is like...

oh my damn me you know um so i mean it's something if you if you read great thanks bees bees is intrigued yeah if you read if you read any sort of like explicit rated fan fiction it's nothing it's nothing outside the norm of that but you know for for like right if you if you're like oh i'm just gonna read this dragon book you're like oh my god anyway um all right okay last not least intriguing yeah

Far and away my highest recommendation of these three. I, a little while ago, you and I admitted on the Magical Weapons episode that we had not read any Brandon Sanderson. I saw your tweet about this, so I figured that's what this was. Yeah. I read my first Brando Sando book. And, like, I think part of the thing with Brandon Sanderson that you and I sort of talked about on that episode was, like, he's so prolific. Yeah.

And a lot of his books are like, his books are physically long and then they're part of long, longish series. So it's like, where do you start? It feels a little overwhelming. Um,

But I follow Brandon Sanderson on TikTok. And Brandon Sanderson himself is like, you know where you want to start? And I don't know if he just said this to sell his most recent book. He's like, let's start with my newest book, Tress of the Emerald Sea, which came out January 2023. And this is part of, it is a standalone book. It is in the Cosmere, which is his larger sort of universe that he writes in. But it is its own thing. It is a lighter. So my understanding, having no other Brandon Sanderson to comparison,

compared to is that it is a much lighter film

than he usually tells. The inspiration for this book came from watching The Princess Bride with his wife and her being like, wouldn't it be cooler if Buttercup actually did something or had something to do or something to stay? And so he's like, I'm going to write a Princess Bride-esque, pulling from the kind of tone that William Goldman does in The Princess Bride. I'm going to write a Princess Bride-esque adventure with our female lead, Tress of the Emerald Sea.

who is a completely ordinary girl, and she's off on an adventure to rescue her beloved, who is the Duke's son or whatever, who's been kidnapped. And she falls in with pirates, and it's this whole thing. So if you're looking for Princess Bride meets Our Flag Means Death meets some of that Terry Pratchett sort of whimsy, which I really like. So my understanding is that it's not necessarily a great example of the Brando Sando tone,

Because he's, like, kind of trying something new. And it doesn't, like, flow as easily as the Terry Pratchett, like, wit does. But in terms of world building and magical systems, I was really captivated because... Sorry, I'm almost done here. But, like, the...

It's called Tress of the Emerald Sea. This is a world in which there are 12 seas and 12 moons, and each sea is a different color, and the sea is made up of spores that fall down from the moon. And the spores, you're going to be thinking about our number one pick here. The spores, if they come in contact with a mucous membrane or whatever, will sprout and kill you. Do they urn?

They all do. They do, actually. They all do, like, they all have different things that they do. And in terms of, like, I was just captivated by this concept of, you know, so you're, like, you're sailing the Emerald Sea and then you cross the border into the Crimson Sea or you cross over into, like, the Black Sea, which is, like, the, you know, the most harrowing and stuff like that. And, like...

Watching this protagonist who I love, who is stubbornly ordinary, not a magical chosen, you know, girl, very ordinary girl, but

grow and develop on this adventure in this really cool concept of world um also if you buy the physical copy of trust in the emerald sea it is a gorgeous just a physically gorgeous book it's got beautiful illustrations it's got a gorgeous like cover with like um it reminds me of uh the buried giant that uh ishiguro book that just has like a absolutely gorgeous green cover

That is a book corner with House of Braids. It's incredible. Trust of the Emerald Sea, Brando Sando. I really, really, really recommend it. I read a passage of it out to a friend of mine over the phone the other day, which is like not something I usually do when I'm reading a book. But I was just like so taken by... Read it to me right now. So...

That idea of like a character being extraordinary, which is something we, we, we like, we like when a, when a young person is harboring some like extraordinary talents, but it is like, I, what I like here is like Sanderson is obviously engaging with that concept. So Tress lives on a rock of an Island that she's never left and,

But unlike Moana, she has no interest in leaving. So the chapter one ends with her saying, like, she's never left and she doesn't really much mind that. Right? Okay. So chapter two opens thusly. Me when someone says, when are you coming into the office again? You've been home for a while. Yeah.

Chapter two opens like this. Perhaps you were surprised to hear those last words. Tress wanted to stay on the rock. She liked it there. Where was her sense of adventure? Her yearning for new lands? Her wanderlust? Well, this isn't part of the story where you ask questions so kindly keep them to yourself. That said, you must understand that this is a tale about people who are both what they seem and not what they seem simultaneously. A story of contradictions. In other words, it is a story about human beings.

In this case, Tress wasn't your ordinary heroine in that she was in fact decidedly ordinary. Indeed, Tress considered herself categorically boring. She liked her tea lukewarm. She went to bed on time. She loved her parents, occasionally squabbled with her little brother and didn't litter. She was fair at needlepoint and had a talent for baking, but had no other noteworthy skills. She didn't train at fencing in secret. She couldn't talk to animals. She had no hidden royalty or deities in her lineage, though her great

grandmother Glorf had reportedly once waved at the king. That had been from atop the rock while he was sailing past many miles away, so Tress didn't think it counted. In short, Tress was a normal teenage girl. She knew this because the other girls often mentioned how they weren't like everyone else. And after a while, Tress figured that the group everyone else must include only her. The other girls were obviously right, as they all knew how to be unique. They were so good at it, in fact.

they did it together. Tress was generally more thoughtful than most people and she didn't like to impose by asking for what she wanted. She'd remain quiet when other girls were laughing or telling jokes about her. After all, they were having so much fun. It would be impolite to spoil that and presumptuous of her to request that they stop. Incredible. I love this. Yeah. Oh, man. Okay. Tress and the Emerald Sea. Fantastic. And yes,

I will be reading more Brando Sando after this. I think I'm supposed to hop over to Mistborn at this point. I think most people tell you to start with Mistborn. So I will. But I wanted to like sort of ease myself in with something that is considered sort of a low-level investment kind of thing. So there you go. Beautiful. Incredible. House of Reeds. Speaking of spores. Yeah. Mallory, why don't you hit us with our number one? And I will...

I'll just say this. Here's the inherent philosophy of this podcast. Paying attention to things is how we show love, right? That's what I wrote down. Paying attention to things is how we show love. Oh, Jo. It's a show we cover every week together and cherish doing. We covered it on the Prestige TV podcast. So if you haven't heard us talk about The Last of Us, you can hear us do that for every single episode on our sister feed, Prestige TV. And we're going to be talking about the last of us.

More movies on my top 10 than I was anticipating. I usually find myself more inclined toward TV in part because it's so fulfilling to spend all of that time in the story and keep the conversation going week after week. But when I think back to the first six months of 2023, this is in our universe, right? Non-competitive.

succession or the bear department, easily the thing that has the most mind share and heart share for me. I just absolutely loved this and I loved talking about it with you. The show itself was just so excellent and well-crafted and deftly constructed and made. It also did the thing we were talking about earlier. Like I

I play games occasionally, but it's not like a daily pursuit of mine. But like getting to have that impetus to play the game, which was like a really fun thing for me. I had so much more fun doing it than I... I mean, obviously people have said that The Last of Us is like an all-time game. So it's not like I was surprised that it was good. But I really loved spending time in that part of the universe as well. And then like one of the things that we really enjoyed doing was parsing the way that...

Craig Mazin and Neil Druckmann talked about adapting. Like, we have... We so often talk about adaptations, right? We love, as you just did a wonderful job of exploring, reading the text. Either we have, like, a fondness for a certain...

source text and then we get to see how it is brought to the screen or we fall in love with a movie and show and have that impulse to then go see where that all came from right and it's really rare to have like that weekly insight into that creative process and like

the way that they forged this thing together and, like, obviously, Mazin loved the game and has that genuine, like, affection for it and reverence for it, even. But the pairing of, like, you know, we're big Chernobyl heads here, right? Love Chernobyl. Mazin's... Is that the first time anyone has ever said big Chernobyl head here in the House of R? His... Mazin's, I think, like, just genuine...

brilliance as a writer and a scripter of television stories and then Druckmann's grasp of the mythology and the way that they paired those together. And obviously, Druckmann...

for crafted some of the episodes almost the driver of some of the episodes and mason has a lot of like knowledge of and love for the mythology it's like they were both doing all of those things but that was just like a really a really uh rare thing to have access to the way that we got it with them on a weekly basis because of the inside the episodes and the official pod that they were doing and everything so that like enriched the experience as well um

The cast, I mean, we have our primary duo, of course, who we'll talk about in a second. The guest spots of stars in this season of TV, like, unparalleled. I mean, we can't, again, we did the pot every week, so we don't have time to go through it all here. But like, thinking back to these really fleeting, brief, but like, utterly captivating moments in time that we got to spend with

Anna Torv and Murray Bartlett and Nick Offerman and Lamar Johnson and Melanie Linsky and Storm Marie and Scott Shepard and on and on the list goes. Like, I'm still thinking months later about Bill and Frank's Strawberries or Sam's Magic Slate or Riley and Ellie dancing with the masks on at the abandoned mall. And then, like, Pedro and Bella, Joel and Ellie just, like, instantly a duo, a pair, like,

who I feel a level of investment in that's like my favorite thing when I read a story or watch a show or watch a movie. And I'm like, it's like, can sound weird to say, right? But I'm like, I care about these people like they're real people in my life. Like I care what happens to them. I want to spend time with them. I want to know what they're thinking. When they're sad, I feel sad. When long, long time kicks in at the end of episode three again, and they're pulling away in the pickup truck and we see that little smile pass between them, that's just magic, absolute magic. And then the other, the swing of it

the gut wrench that you feel with that I swear at the end and like the choice that Joel makes I mean it's

devastating and it looks at and examines with a level of rigor and like kind of unflinching focus what people are capable of doing and the things that they justify to themselves. And it does that with enough space too for a little bit of hope, a little bit of possibility and like that recognition that you need to be able to build something with somebody else to head out into the world and try to

not just save it, but live in it at all. And I just thought that the show was incredible and I can't wait for the next season. I loved it. I think in addition to every eloquent, beautiful thing that you just said, there's two things I want to say. Number one, when...

We were talking about this last night, I believe it was, about whether or not this would be like a top 10 thing or top 10 moments episode. Moments is what we did at the end of 2022. We'll probably do it at the end of this year. This is like more thing. But like, so I was trying to figure out like how I was thinking about what my entries would be. But like, if you want to talk about a thing, long, long time as an episode of television episode,

will go down in its history as one of the greatest episodes of television ever. I don't think that's hyperbole. I think that's just a fact. Similar to, like, you know, episode six of The Bear, or if you have elite taste, episode seven of The Bear this season. And I think that, like, the... It is such an important moment in pop culture history this year that...

that radiated outside of the genre corners into the mainstream in a way that we really love where we're like, we love the things that are just for us, but we also love sharing the things and getting people who never, who never thought they would watch a zombie show or a video game adaptation, hooking them into watching the show with us. Something that I love about what we do on this show is,

has to do with like Hobbs and Dragons and gmail.com. And it is the like community of our listeners and being in dialogue with them. I love being in dialogue with you, but I love being in dialogue with them as well. So like the, the number of mushroom recipes I received around that show, there was just like such a beautiful, like

community around House of the Dragon, Rings of Power, like, last of it was, like, such an incredible run. And then the content got, like, a little bit more divisive after that. But The Last of Us, I think, you know, on the TV front, was the last time, you know, and we'll feel it again, hopefully, with, like, Soak at Loki or something like that. But, like, that we were all just, like, watching and relishing something week to week. So for that...

for that experience alone. That's something that television, especially week-to-week television versus binge television, has that put the edge for The Last of Us over Across the Spider-Verse for me, where, like, Across the Spider-Verse I loved, and as I mentioned, I love watching it sort of simmer in the culture and watching cosplay and stuff like that, but it's like, we're not talking about it week after week after week, and I'm not, like, sort of sitting in it with Where is the Last of Us? It was just, like, this...

long, long time that we got to have this conversation about this story, about the things that they carried, about survival is insufficient, the yearning tendrils, all that sort of stuff. It's just like, what an incredible story for us to get to dig into. And in addition, we had the joy you mentioned playing the video game for the first time. I was watching those playthroughs

We had the joy of joining a conversation already in progress for years and years of people who have been fans of this story for so long. And us getting to hop into that world was really fun for us. So, yeah, I think it's no question, number one, The Last of Us. Yeah. Amazing. Okay, we did it. Run me through a recap.

of your top 10. Let's rip off our list for everyone. My top 10, starting at the bottom, Yellow Jackets, number nine, Dungeons & Dragons, Cole and Honor Among Thieves, number eight, Mandalorian Season 3, number seven, Nimona, number six, Guardians of the Galaxy Volume 3, number five, Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny, number four, Star Trek Strange New Worlds with the Smuggle of Picard Season 3, number three,

Across the Spider-Verse, a number two House of Reeds smuggle book corner with Emily Wilde's Encyclopedia of Fairies by Heather Fawcett, Fourth Wing by Rebecca Yarrow's, and Tress of the Emerald Sea by Brandon Sanderson. And number one, The Last of Us. Mallory, what's yours? Beautiful. My top 10 best of the year so far. 10.

Mario. Nine. Black Mirror. Eight. Silo. Seven. Mando. Six. Asteroid City. Five. John Wick Chapter Four. Four. Indy. Have you heard of it? Three. Guardians Volume Three. Two. Across the Spider-Verse. And one. Last of Us. Last of Us.

Honorable mentions. Yeah. I have one that I want to mention. Then we got a bunch of listener submissions that I want to run through really quickly. But honorable mention for me, and this is actually inspired by a listener email that we got, which is someone said, someone put on their long list Shadow and Bone and they were like, season two, and they were like, it was a mixed bag. So I will shout out the scenes in Shadow and Bone season two that just had the characters from Six of Crows in them. Those scenes. Yeah.

I love the crows on that show and in that book series. But overall, it's sort of a mixed proposition. What about you, honorable mention? So I noted earlier Yellow Jackets, one of my honorable mentions. And then I wanted to quickly shout out Bad Batch Season 2 and Star Wars Visions, which I guess I could have smuggled inside of my Mando entry. But I thought that...

This Bad Batch season was pretty mixed and uneven, but the ending rocked. The final couple of episodes were dynamite and made me really excited for the next season of that show. And then, you know, I'll say that we are not the passionate daily gamers that some of our wonderful Ringerverse colleagues are, so I have not played Ringerverse.

Zelda yet, but just since we're talking about best of the year, we should just note that if other people like Ben and Jessica or our guy Steve right here with us had his mic on, I'm sure that Zelda would have made their list. So there we go. I also wanted to say, this is separate from honorable mentions but related, I guess, that there was a pretty long stretch of the week where I was going to devote

two spots on my top 10 to trailers. And I talked myself out of it. It didn't feel like quite honoring the spirit of the exercise, but

I was all for it. I thought that was the... No, I do think, yeah, trailers are an art form in their own right. But let's just talk about them now, right? For a minute here? Can I do our listener submissions really quickly for honorable mentions and then we'll roll into those trailers? Absolutely. Okay. I'm just going to run through these quickly. Andre wrote in about the Harley Quinn Valentine's Day special, which was phenomenal. Fantastic. And also on the DC animation front, My Adventures of Superman is just starting and it is really fun. The Midnight Boys love it. I love it. It's a great little show. Okay.

Betty, who is the owner of Betty Books in Missouri, wrote in a couple comics about

Poison Ivy colon Virtuous Cycle written by G. Willow Wilson, art by Marcio Takara. Poison Ivy is on a mission and that mission is to kill humanity with a fungal virus. But for once, G. Willow Wilson, co-creator of Ms. Marvel, among other things, has Pam do more than that. She also goes on a feminist cross-country road trip of self-discovery. This book gives Poison Ivy a rare solo story and Marcio Takara's art is great at depicting both body horror and ecological horror, which feels increasingly real these days.

And then Betty also recommends Love Everlasting by Tom King, a comics creator that we love, and art by Elsa Charette. I'm making that very French, and it may not be. Anyway.

Betty Rice, do you like science fiction, mystery, or romance? Perhaps time travel? Check out this newish image series, Love Everlasting, in this comic that started as a sub stack during pandemic lockdown. Tom King tells the story of Joan Peterson, who's trapped in an endless cycle of pulpy romances. Every time she falls in love, she wakes up at a different time with a different romance, a foreshadowing,

If she tries to avoid love, then she's shot by a mysterious cowboy. If you're skeptical of romance, you'll enjoy the subversion and critique of the genre. Well, if you like romance, you'll enjoy the celebration of the melodrama. Somehow, Love Everlasting threads the needle between the two. The art by Elsa...

sure a ta i'm just gonna say is perfectly vintage pulp complete with some bright red gore now and then it's fun with a capital f but also purposeful advancing the uneasy and mysterious mood that builds through each love story also i enjoy the attention to fashion throughout the eras western mod flapper victorian finally the colors by matt hollingsworth are delicious my

eyes were gobbling them up on every page. The palette shifts from issue to issue to reflect the changing time period and pay homage to poke comics of the past throughout, but still feels fresh and funky. Besides the genre fans I already mentioned, I would recommend this series, especially for fans of paper girls. There's some of the same mystery slash sci-fi aspects and the delightful visual flair as well. That was a long recommend, but I thought Betty did such a good job with that. And I love that.

I love a bookseller on a tear. So thank you, Betty, for that recommendation. Jeff recommends Lockwood and Company, the erstwhile canceled Netflix installment by the great Joe Cornish who did Attack the Block, et cetera. James recommends Black Cloak by Kelly Thompson and Meredith McLaren. Kelly Thompson is a comics creator that I love.

And James writes, speaking of detective stories set inside another genre of story, this is an absolutely terrific detective story set in a fantasy world where the law enforcement is investigating a series of murders in the last city in the world where elves, humans, mermaids, and other species coexist.

And then he ended with an apple take, which I wanted to include. A lot of people did, but I really liked this one from James because James wrote, red delicious or trash, as is any food that has to tell you it's delicious. And it reminded me of the Taiwan land. Yeah, of course. Taiwan.

A man who has to say he's king. Okay. That reminds me, I forgot one of my honorable mentions. I had a comic on there. So the comic talk here, I'll just note that we talked about this. Yeah, Saga. We talked about last year when Saga was returning, had that on a hype meter and it's back. I mean, we're on another brief hiatus, but I believe issue 66 will come out in August. And there have been five new issues this year. 61 through 65 have come out this year. Okay.

it's just great to have saga back and to get new issues and new arcs. And, uh, this has been a wonderful stretch. So people who are enthusiastic about saga, if you have not taken the plunge, no time like the present it's, you will rip through it. It is, uh, you will consume it ferociously. And if you read it and then spent a long time in a state of despondence and despair waiting, uh,

mourning, grieving. It's back. It's back. Dive back in. It's great. On the Saga beat, I don't know why I keep saying Saga. I just like saying that Saga. I know it's called Saga. Anyway, on the Saga beat, our last email comes from Alex, who yes, ands the Black Cloak recommendation that James gave, the Love Everlasting recommendation that Betty gave, and your Saga recommendation, and adds a few more titles that I'll zoom through. Eight Billion Genies.

From Image Comic, completed eight issues, Charles Soule and Ryan Brown. The final two issues of this miniseries came out in 2023, wrapping up a wonderful story at the exact same moment every single person on Earth gets a personal genie and one wish. Things then go awry. It's absurd, hilarious, and full of heart.

Alex also recommends Night Fever by Ed Brubaker, a creator we love, and Sean Phillips, and writes that Brubaker and Phillips are the masters of neo-noir in this story about an American overseas in Europe who gets roped into the seedy nightlife underbelly of the city, eyes wide shut style. Alex also recommends Nightwing. Hmm.

And Star Wars Darth Vader as, like, two, you know, big properties of DC Comics and Marvel ongoing. But, like, the Vader – like, points out why those two particular sort of big blockbuster titles are so good. And then last but not least from Boom Studios, Once Upon a Time at the End of the World from Jason Aaron, Alexander Tefengi, Leila Del Duca, and Nick Alvarez.

Drakota love story set after the apocalypse with the story told in three different parts at three different stages in the character's life drawn by three different artists. So a lot of comics recommendations from our pals. I feel like I'm behind...

woefully behind and there's a lot of titles on here that I'm really excited about love everlasting sounds really good to me black cloak sounds really good to me so I'm excited to check this out thank you for the Rex amazing from our listeners 8 billion genies that concept sounds fascinating right check that out yeah amazing the the Vader the Vader comics are any Star Wars fan should check them out absolutely wonderful okay so that's just a bounty of future reading material what a what a thrill

House of Reeds, the door is always open. We haven't formally set up shop at a brick and mortar premise yet. But sometimes I send you photos of interiors at bookshops to just give us designs and like bookshop cats and stuff like that. So, you know. Love, absolutely love a bookshop cat. And love talking about the things that we loved together. This has been an absolute joy.

Five minutes. Quick trailer check-in, because we've gotten a couple absolute doozies recently. The most recent Dune trailer for Dune Part 2 and the most recent Ahsoka trailer for the impending Star Wars live-action series, Ahsoka. These two trailers were sensational. I genuinely think that the most recent Dune trailer is like a Hall of Fame trailer. One of the best trailers I can remember. Just...

Sublime. We were already so excited. People get it here, but I'm like vigorously nodding. She's nodding enthusiastically. Yeah. Mm-hmm. This is like the opposite of the, that's not hope. Like, this is hope, seeing this trailer. It's just, we knew this movie was going to be amazing. It's one of our most anticipated releases of the year. And the trailer was like an art form in and of itself. Just fucking incredible. We, um...

I'm just so excited to say phrases like, again, and stuff like that. I know. I missed it. Yeah.

Something I love just on a personal note is that Fred of the Pod and my Child By Content co-host Dave Gonzalez has been on a real anti-Denny Villeneuve tear. Misguided. Terrible. Misguided take from Dave. And absolutely dismaying. He dropped his like anti-Denny Villeneuve take on the podcast and the same day the Dune 2 trailer dropped and he was like, I've made a huge mistake.

Yeah. Even Dave, like no Denival Novator was like, oh, this looks amazing. So yeah, Dune 2. Dune. So excited. Maybe my favorite director currently. Wow. Certainly in the top five. Yeah. Certainly in the top five. And certainly for like genre content. Absolutely. Like an absolute sci-fi master. Yeah.

Ahsoka. Is this something that you're looking forward to, Mallory? I can't tell. I said to you recently on the pod, both on the heels of the first trailer, which came out at Star Wars Celebration, and then when we did our Spring and Summer hype meter, I had Ahsoka right at the top.

That I thought this would be the achievement of a lifetime for Dave Filoni. And you, as a person who are looking forward to Ahsoka, but also, you know, you care about me. And you were like, protect your heart a little bit, right? And then I saw this trailer. And I'm here to tell you that I can't protect my heart. I was thinking about this after watching the trailer, which gave me chills. It was just electric.

It's like everything I want this show to be is there in these two trailers. Yeah.

I am maintaining just a little bead of like, okay, be prepared, be balanced, be measured, expect anything. Sometimes these things go wrong. I'll just say that I think that if this show is disappointing, it will be the biggest disappointment for me as a fan since the end of Game of Thrones. Like that's, that's how much I'm looking forward to this. Now, the, the, the, the whole the Game of Thrones had over my life and career was a different thing entirely. Um,

So that was a different thing entirely. But your history with Ahsoka is long in story. I'm very invested in Ahsoka as a character and Thrawn as a character, in Rebels as an enterprise, in Live Action Rebels, Rebels 2.0, all of it. Sabine, Chopper, everything that this trailer has that they're showing us, everything that I think Filonia is going to do here, I need it. I want it. I believe it will be good. So I'm not going to... Here's what I've decided.

Rationally, am I occasionally like, I will be despondent if this is bad? Sure. I'm not even going to think that way. I'm just going to say I'm looking forward to it. I can't wait. I'm excited. It's like a great, fun thing to revisit. And I'm looking forward to spending the next few weeks revisiting some of the prior Ahsoka and Rebels canon to get ready. I cannot wait to talk about the show with you every week. It is one of the things I am most looking forward to potting about together.

What did you think of the trailer? I'm not here to yuck your yam or rain on your parade, even a little smidgen. I'm like, I desperately want this to be phenomenal for you. And we did get an email from someone asking if we would do any sort of Ahsoka prep. Certainly, of course. Certainly we will. Certainly we will. We will give you some prep. Sure not.

In addition to the prep we already did for Mandalorian season three. But I just want to say in two things. I'm not, again, I'm not rating on yours or anyone else's parade, but something that I have. Do it. No, no, no, no. I'm not. But something that I have heard is,

from people who haven't watched the animated shows is that they're a little worried that they're going to be lost. And of course that like, this is why we're here to like hold your hand and help you through and give you context. That's something that we, that's literally what we do. Right. But I,

kind of understand like in the way that this trailer was cut like it was sort of like you're supposed to have a like holy shit Sabine moment and like you and I do but like maybe someone who's never seen Sabine is like I don't understand like the context of what I'm watching here so that is something that I hope that you know I believe in Dave Filoni and that I hope the show has space to sort of

gently hold the hand of people who are less familiar with these characters in this world. You know what I mean? Definitely. But the other side of that that I want to say is that, too, something we were talking about earlier about, like, you

you know, why does Dave Filoni want to revisit these characters that he did in the animation? Like, he loves these characters. Like, they're the work of his lifetime. Like, you know, Ahsoka is his masterpiece of a creation. So, like, you know, this is something that he cares deeply about. But the question is also, like, does he have, is there something else on his mind other than, like,

I created these characters. I want to like give them maybe even more popularity by putting them in live action. And I think based on this trailer, there's all this delightful mythological force mythological. And then also even more crucially or, or even more piquing my interest is, um,

which is something that Ahsoka has done for a while in her stories, is the gray area between the light side and the dark. Both from our antagonists and from Ahsoka, these are characters who are not darksiders and lightsiders. And to examine the Force through the middle...

is something I am really excited for, more excited than I am to see Lars Mikkelsen slap a bunch of blue plate on, which is also thrilling to me. So, you know. Yeah, also thrilling. Yeah.

getting that glimpse of Thrawn face here was a true delight. Yeah, I mean, that's like top of the list for me as well. And one of the things that's like that we hold so sacred about Ahsoka as a figure in Star Wars, you know, we'll talk about this a lot in our preview pods and then I think probably on a weekly basis as we cover the show. But the way that this trailer really leaned into that, some of that is with Balan. And, you know, we talked to like Theorize in our first trailer breakdown about the orange lightsabers and what might it mean. And like,

you know, this opening note of like one must destroy in order to create. I like thinking about that in the macro meta sense for Star Wars and like really trying to do something that's fresh and distinct. And you can do that in harmony with appealing to the history that we have with the people and the things that we already love. And that was, that was also present in the trailer in a way that gave me hope. Like,

For example, we hear Balan mention Anakin. We hear Ahsoka mention Anakin. I don't think the whole show will be about Anakin and Ahsoka, but the past that they share, what his fall has meant for her life, what her break from the Jedi Order before his fall meant for his life is going to be like inextricable from this text. Then you get these very intriguing Ahsoka-Sabine relationship moments

frameworks in the trailer. Master. Master. We see Sabine holding a green saber. Like, I don't think we will learn that Sabine has been force sensitive this whole time. I think that they're playing with our expectations. I also hope we don't. I'll be open-minded if that is where it goes, but I also hope we don't. And I think that, like, then that's another good example of the point you were raising earlier. Like, how much do you need to know about

Sabine, do you need to have seen every second of Sabine's Darksaber training with Kanan, for example, or her training with Ezra, for example, to be able to appreciate what we might come to learn, like new information about the bond, the tutelage, the past between Ahsoka and Sabine? I think that will be enriching if it's there. I hope it's there too. But my other hope is that if it isn't there...

That what they give us will feel like its own thing entirely because that will all be new to us. And I think the balance question of how, not only what you need to know for this to like feel welcoming, right? And not alienating, but also for it all to track. It's like that balance question is fascinating because I think one of the things that didn't work about Mando season three was,

was actually how little they brought in from of that history and backstory. It was like, okay, we're going to kind of like not really talk about the fact that Bo-Katan was a terrorist. We'll have like two lines in the entire season that like, that in any way confront that history. But then if every beat of it is there, it's like, we've done this already. So that, that question of balance is like, it's going to be a crucial one.

Again, I said I wasn't here to kick dirt on Mando season three, but I think Mando season three failed on both sides of that. Because I still think there was some Mandalore lore that felt impenetrable to people, some Darksaber lore that felt impenetrable to people. And then at the same time, for those of us who knew more, we were like, why aren't we talking about XYZ? So yeah, again, and we really trust Dave Filoni. We have a lot of confidence in him. I think in addition to that,

Force mythology or dark side, light side, what's in between sort of question. The other thing that I, I mean, it looks phenomenal. The music, so the music that they're using for the series, they've got Kevin Kiner who did the

for Rebels, Star Wars Rebels composer Kevin Kiner is doing the music for the series. But this track that's on here, just by the way, is called Eye in the Door. It's by John Samuel Hansen, who's a composer who just does music for trailers. And I will just listen to this track. I think it is so good. But on the aesthetics front, what I think is interesting in this trailer, and I'll be so interested to track it, is...

We've seen images of the mural that is from Rebels from the moment we got art for Ahsoka, right? And we've talked in the past about the character of Thrawn and how he uses art as a way in which to understand cultures in a way in which to then conquer cultures. Yeah.

But I love that we get not only that mural, but we also get this like, you know, bas-relief sort of mural engraving moment. And these crumbling old, you know, spots that might have been a holy site or a temple or something like that. There's just like a lot of like...

and beauty of this world that is like, you know, we love Star Wars because it is like shiny and chrome, but it's also there's this like

You know, especially in the way that I think Filoni thinks about it, this sort of like a mythological, artistic, exploring the distinct flavors of cultures of Lothal, of all these different places, that I am really excited to see this show take on. Me too. I think that etching that you called out is a great example, too, of like...

I'm assuming that that's the daughter from Mortis, this, like, really key figure in not only the lore and mythology of the Force, but Ahsoka, specifically Ahsoka's connection to the Force and history and the canon. And, like, would I recommend the Mortis arc of Clone Wars to people? The answer is not only yes, it's like, I would do it as fervently as anything in Star Wars. But I also feel that

this should be a welcoming experience for people who have never spent a second watching the Mortis arc or any other episode of Clone Wars and hopefully it will be. So I, yeah, there was enough there like that glimpse of what appeared to be like the front of a pergola. Like there's just so much here that has me, I feel like I'm levitating in anticipation. I just, I really, I really can't wait. I hope it's wonderful. Do you see the ghost Lego set? Dynamite. Yeah.

Did you hear the dulcet tones of David Tennant? Yes. Phenomenal. So, you know, in the shot where we see him in the ship, like, I feel like he's going to be in it a little bit more than maybe we were anticipating. I know. I thought it was just going to be like a cameo, but it feels like maybe he's on the adventure. Delightful. Okay. August. Two-part premiere, Jo. Can't wait. Every week, you and me. And it's going to be the best thing that was ever made.

That's right. I'm putting that energy into the anniversary. I love it. Sorry, darling. And did you get what you wanted from this life? Even so? I did. And what did you want? To call myself beloved. To feel myself beloved. On. On.

Okay, Joe, we have run long talking about some of the best stuff that we've seen this year. We had a blast. We will resume our longer Secret Invasion discussions next week when we get to episode five, the penultimate episode of the season. Just a quick...

couple minutes here on the fourth episode of the season Beloved what are you most interested in highlighting here? Rodious' Skrull confirmed Gaia

As we speculated and theorized, in fact, Alive had dosed up with that super-scroll extremist power, was ready to go. We found out about it in an opening episode flashback. Very strange. The episode concluded with Gravik killing one of Nick Fury's close friends and or confidants for the third time in four weeks.

is Talos actually dead? Could this possibly be another fake out? Do you think we've done the fake out thing? And that's a wrap on the Ben Mendelsohn Talos experience. Would you like to recite some Raymond Carver late fragment to me as Fury and Priscilla did? Where would you like to take this? Oh, my top impression. I mean, if we were doing a lot, maybe next week, we'll do some dramatic Raymond Carver. We only have a little bit of time to talk about this here, but yeah,

I will say, I do think that the Talos is definitely dead. And this is something that we sort of talked about in the very first episode based on some of Samuel Jackson's quotes about Nick Ferry becoming a sort of lone gunman, gunslinger sort of thing. So like, you know, strip away his wife who we just met, but now is stripped away from him. Uh, strip away Talos, strip away all these sort of thing. And guess what's left in the words of Buffy? Me. So we'll find out like how he does. Um, but, um,

I just want to quickly read some quotes from Feige on Rhodey and just like we can think about this when we come back to cover this next week. But speaking of Marvel.com, Feige on the Rhodey reveal, something again we called in our first episode of this podcast, as did everyone else on the internet. We're not special. Feige said, we need to have a character that one would not expect to be a Skrull. Okay. Don was on board for this reveal of playing and revealing another side of Rhodey and revealing that, yeah, Rhodey has been a Skrull.

When we have amazing actors like Don Cheadle that have been with us for so many years, we very much treat them as partners in the creative collaboration. It was very early days when we pitched this concept to Don, and he very much was into it, into being able to play with different sides of Rhodey that we haven't seen before. Last but not least...

Feige says, in terms of how long Rhodey has been a Skrull, the Marvel.com article reads, that revelation will have to wait as viewers come to, quote, understand exactly how long he's been a Skrull. Feige adds, quote, we like the idea of fans going back and watching some of the other appearances of Rhodey and realizing that that wasn't him.

This is the conversation you and I have been having from the start. How long was Rhodey's a Skrull? You were like, we're going to have to have some words if Rhodey was a Skrull in Endgame. So when Feige says, go back and watching some of the other appearances of Rhodey and realizing that wasn't him. I am

concerned. We have some questions, comments, and concerns about that. I am concerned and my hope is that this, despite what that quote might indicate, proves to be a more recent thing. And what's wild to me is that the roadie that we met

we've met in this show. Like, I think, I do think Don is having a really fun time playing Skrull Rhodey, but Skrull Rhodey is so different from Rhodey that I'm like, if he's trying to like fool us that he's Rhodey, like he's doing a bad job. Don Cheadle's out doing a great job as an actor, giving us different flavor of a Rhodey that, uh,

we've not seen before. Right. But he's so, like, sarcastic. Well, I mean, Roddy, sorry, always sarcastic. But just sort of, like, that swagger, the, like, you know, the drinking too much so much so that the president notices it. Right. Like, sloppy. Seems sloppy. So, like, how long could this...

Lady Skrull have been undercover because doesn't seem to be doing a great job, honestly. So this character who, the Skrull who is impersonating Rhodey is named Rava. This is not a character. Kendall Roy's ex-wife. Kendall's ex-Rava. This is inside of the MCU on the Skrull front, not a character we know. So we don't know anything about this like really central figure in the story. Right.

It's your point, which I have been thinking about too and really agree with. Like,

I guess the only thing they could try to say is, well, the fact that the Gravik mission is unfolding in full and we have reached this stage of the attempted takeover might mean that Rava as Rhodey is like acting differently. Playing a little fashionless. I just don't think you can go back to prior, like my takes on the end game thing are on the record and like I feel strongly about it and I think a lot of other Marvel fans do too and like you can't,

fuck with the moment between Nat and Rhodey during the blip. You can't fuck with Rhodey's goodbye to Tony at the very end. You just, like, there are a couple things. We have to sort of be open to the fact that comics can and can change. That's, like, an inherent part of the experience. There are a few things in the Infinity Saga that are, like, sacred. Tony's death, I just feel, I...

You made a great point about it. Every now and then you hear me say something and then I'm like, I'll try to remain open-minded. This is not a thing I overreact. No, no, no. I was like, I was feeling much more loose about this until you made an excellent case for it in our first episode. And then I was like, yeah, it's a betrayal to us as like fans, if that's not roadie. I will accept...

The Falcon and the Winter Soldier. Falcon. That is where I'm willing to say... But it's the plural of appearances that has me very concerned. That's concerning. It's worrying, Kevin. It's worrying. I'm a little concerned. But yeah, like the open the door and like, you know, get me a mint and like the... Not even just in the interactions with Fury because Fury is, of course, showing up to the hotel to be like, I... But with the president, you know? I know, too, but the interactions with the president. Yeah, like all of it. It's just...

not even Rava is not even pretending to be Colonel James Rhodes maybe Rava is like a new hire maybe someone else was doing Rhodey and like Rava is not as good I am curious to see like when we learn where real Rhodey and like real Ross and all of these figures who have been swapped out like are and to the point of the email we got a couple weeks ago like hopefully they're not just

baking inside of a nuclear power plant. Hopefully real Rhodey is and will be okay once it's removed from the fracking pot at some point. Anything else, Jo? Well, again, maybe we'll cover a little bit more from episode four when we get to episode five next week. Anything else that you...

I want to hit tough end for Talos. If he is dead, that the last interaction he had with, with Gaia was like, I just need to know your plan. And then he was like, here's my plan. It's to convince the president that we have good hearts. And then maybe he'll let a million shape shifters just like carve out some, like some land. And she got up and was like, you're delusional. And then walked away. And then he was murdered by graphic as, uh,

Fury then decided to leave his body on the street and drove away with Ritson. That was the end for Taylor. I don't know. Well, I'm going to reserve judgment. We'll talk about it more next week. I will say... A Miss Ben Mendelsohn. A crime and a shame. Yeah. Miss Ben, a crime and a shame to not have Olivia Colman in this episode. Yeah.

We didn't get our one precious Sonya scene. Yeah, our no Sonya scene. I had to survive on the crumbs that was Vogue did like a video series with Emilia Clarke and Olivia Colman, like two of the most delightfully charismatic people on the planet. Just like, I think they were trying to recapture the HBO Max Negroni Spelliotto viral moment by putting Emilia Clarke and Olivia Colman in a room together. And what I will say this is,

Is that Emilia Clarke asked the question of like, what's the one thing you can't leave your home without? And at first, Olivia Colman gave a boring answer, a phone, and then she said knickers. And I'm like, that's great. So, you know, like if you didn't have a great time with Secret Invasion this week, maybe watch Emilia Clarke and Olivia Colman interview each other is pretty delightful and British. Fantastic. What's your answer? Is it, um,

Pappy Reserve with some nanotech trackers inside. Listen, Pappy Van Winkle is such like a thing that I know from Justified that I was like, my jaw was on the floor. Was that your Easter egg of the week? Of course. Because like, I know that like our pal Jess Clemons and most people who are in the Marvel world are like, oh, this is a She-Hulk reference. And it probably is. But Pappy is like...

is such a thing in Justified that I thought it was like a made-up alcohol that just existed in the television show Justified. This is how I know you're a tequila enthusiast and not a bourbon enthusiast. I hate bourbon. I hate whiskey and I hate bourbon. I love it. I like Nick Fury. I love bourbon. I like this. I do really like the season-long through line about Nick Fury's enthusiasm for a good glass of bourbon. I love it. Anything else, Jo? No.

else you want to say though I want to leave space for you in case you want to talk to her about Secret Invasion no I'm looking forward to resuming our potting next week I guess if I had a subtitle nominee for our recurring award this week it would be in honor of Sonia and her absence you know bottom shelf piss Dostoevsky and rather dashing little eye patch unremarked upon for a full week

Did you have a wig watch or a hat watch that you wanted to do quickly to take us out here? We did get a submission from our listener, Pat, who says, does Samuel L. Jackson's big fluffy chin merkin count for wig watch? And I say, yes. Yes, indeed it does. Oh my Lord. Boy, big fluffy chin merkin is a lot to process there. Okay. What a joy. What a joy. Let that take you into the weekend. Yeah. Well, friends,

We're known for our brevity. Some of our podcasts are just three or four lines.

That's a wrap on today's episode. Thank you to our poetry enthusiasts, Steve Allman, for producing this episode. Arjuna Ramgopal for his additional production work on this episode. And Jomia Deneron for his work on the social for this episode. Please head back into the ringerverse for Jessica's Easter eggs breakdown of Secret Invasion episode four over the weekend. Pop back next week for the Midnight Boys double feature draft.

Toys and Explosions. Love it. And some House of R deep dive in. Rewatching all of it. It's House of Who time, the third episode of House of Who. We will be back to talk about Secret Invasion episode five. Until then, make sure the colonel here has a large coffee for the road.

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