The Annual V-Day Quickie: ‘Onyx Storm’ and the Romantasy Phenomenon
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Hello, welcome to a very, very special Valentine's Day episode of House of R. I'm Joanna Robinson, and joining me now for perhaps our last podcast together ever, it's Mallory Rubin. Do we have whiteboards with us for some educational diagramming?

We do. We do. Okay. Hello. We do. Listen, this is House of R, a podcast that you may have listened to, but if you haven't or you've never watched us before, this show often contains adult content. We really mean it today. Yes. I'm just going to start there. We're doing a podcast today. This is our second annual Valentine's Day Quickie podcast. We're doing it on the rise of a romanticie as a genre.

And specifically, we were talking about the new Rebecca Yarrow's book, Onyx Storm. We have a whole section. Yes. Talk about Onyx Storm. These are spicy books. Oh, yeah. This is a spicy topic. Yes. So we've heard from people in the past from parents who are like, oh, yeah, my kids listen. And no judgment. I love that your kids listen to this podcast. Yeah. I'm just saying today. What an honor. Of all days. Let it be known.

Per your reminders of podcasts we may never get a chance to do together because this might be our last podcast ever. Oh, man. We're covering Yellow Jackets. That's right. On House of R. We are. Right here. First one's already up. Buzz, buzz, bitches. Yeah. So we'll be back next week with our coverage of episode three. Mm-hmm. And then we will also be covering Captain America Brave New World next week. Yep. So that is all coming from us. It is. And that's exciting. Yeah.

On the Ringerverse, next Tuesday, Ringer Quest. It's time. We did a D&D game with Steve as our DM. It was so fun. And it was, we had the best time. We all laughed.

And started immediately texting Steve asking when we could play again. When can we play again? And frankly, Steve, we're still waiting. So it's Mallory. It's Joanna. It's Charles. It's Jomie. It is Van. And it is Steve on the DM chair. That will be going up on YouTube. Yeah. On Spotify. Yes. And also any podcatcher of your choice. Great. Wonderful. Also, the Midnight Boys. Pew, pew, pew. Pew, pew, pew.

Did a Blackest Movie Draft episode, which will be up next week as well. Tremendous. Also, they have Captain America Brave New World takes that have been recorded. That's right. And we shall hear them at some point. That's exciting, too. That's a lot. And again, once again, we may not survive this episode to record those next week. But if we do, Mallory Rubin, love of my life. How can folks keep track of all of that content?

Thanks for asking. Here's what I would recommend. Follow the pod. Great. Follow House of R. Follow the Ringerverse. Follow the Prestige TV podcast where we are covering White Lotus and Joe is covering Severance on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. But here's the thing on Spotify. You can watch us on video, full video episodes of House of R, Midnight Boys, Beep Beep, Prestige TV, and you can watch those video episodes on the no longer new fucking old podcast.

the withered crone that is the Ringerverse YouTube channel while you're at it. Follow us on the social media platform of your choosing, whatever that might be these days. And...

send us your emails. You've been sending them. We have a lot of them today. Yes. We couldn't have done it without you. Not even for a second. Yeah. This is not just a couple today. This is an orgy. This is just the tip of what we got from our listeners. Just the tip. Yeah. Normally, romanticity involves a lot of full thrust. Yeah, yeah. But this is just the tip. We're just getting started. Yep. Okay. We didn't even make it through the intro. Didn't even make it.

and make it through the intro. Also, if you're just listening to this podcast and you're not watching it because we are in studio, we should let you know that John Richter, our guy John Richter, has decked out the set, bedecked it, in Valentine's Day regalia. There's candles. There's a new logo for us. It's just, it's great stuff. Beautiful. We have mood lighting. We have red mood lighting. And we will be diagramming things. So this might be one you want to watch. I would recommend it. But again, after the kids are in bed. Okay.

Before we...

completely devolve into depraved territory. One classy follow-up to our mailbag episode earlier this week. I was talking about this Penguin book series when we were talking about book collection. Yeah, yeah, yeah. With letters on the covers. And our listener Emma wrote in to remind me that that's called the Penguin Drop Cap Series. And the letters actually correspond to titles, not authors. And they're beautiful. They're absolutely gorgeous. So if you are looking to book collect...

The Penguin Drop Cap series. Wonderful. I love collecting books. I'm going to look at those. And then we get to go from Drop Cap to Drop Trial. Let's do it. Let's do it. Spoiler warning. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We'll warn you as they come. Yeah. But specifically be on the lookout for spoiler warnings for A Quarter Thorn and Roses. Mm-hmm.

The Empyrean series and very specifically, Onyx Storm, the latest, the third installment in the Empyrean series. Which you finished last night. Yes. Respectfully, responsibly. And I finished. Near minutes ago. Let's be real, 12 minutes ago. I finished nine minutes before this podcast was supposed to start. And that was stressful, but also thrilling. When you made your deadline, you came in here. Yeah, you were brimming with joy that you had made it.

I read slash listened to all three books in the Empyrean series over the last week and a half. Maybe. Maybe it was. I mean, it was barely more than a week. Yeah. I think like a week and a half. Yeah. This is great because I don't know how to pronounce any of the words in this series. I, in my mad dash to finish on time, I did listen to a few chapters on the audiobook and-

realized that I was way off on quite a few of the pronunciations so I will not be held accountable for how I pronounce any dragon name today nor any location and also perhaps any character I do think I can get Violet and Zayden right and so that's probably enough thrust can you pronounce that yeah that's gonna come in handy great great great okay Dane Dane Dane Atos Atos Dane Atos is a strong name okay yeah yeah okay great

Here's the big picture. This is where we're going to start. Here's the big picture. We're going to start here. Girthy picture. Is this the screen cap that they're going to pick for the video? Oh, boy. Why'd they let us do this? Romantasy. What is it? Why is it a big deal? Okay, so we mentioned a series called A Quarter Thorn in Roses. Yes.

Sarah J Maas. Yes. Who has written not only the series A Quarter Thorn in Roses, but also Throne of Glass and Crescent City. Just to give you, if you're listening to this or watching this and you are like, I've heard a bit about romanticism, but I'm not sure. Is it all that popular? Why is it worth talking about, et cetera? Well, it's worth talking about to see the look on Mallory's face every time she says something that might shock and delight you and preferably titillate you. But Sarah J Maas has sold over 38 million copies worldwide of her books. That's a lot.

And the TikTok tag, hashtag ACOTAR, has 8.9 billion views. Good God. That's a lot. Oh my God. So suffice to say, it's popular. Perhaps even more popular is the very recent phenomenon of Rebecca Yaros' Empyrean series, which the newest book, Onyx Storm, sold 2.7 million copies in its first week, which is a 20-year record for literature marketed towards adults. Sheesh. How are you feeling about that, about the widespread...

Money, money, money. Popularity of romanticism. Yeah. I feel wonderful about it. This is exciting. I'm new to romanticism. Yeah. So part of what's

about doing this pod and talking about this with you is this is like a new journey of discovery in so many ways for me and for a lot of people. So I read Fourth Wing between, that came out in May of 2023. Iron Flame came out in November of 2023. Two books to kick off the series in the same year. Rebecca Yarris was prolific, but they had both been like part of this. The fact that they were both going to come out in the same year was part of this initial publishing strategy, right? So that obviously like helped to stoke a lot of the, uh,

Fervor. Fervor around it. Yeah. That you weren't going to have to wait long. You end each of these books. You're very excited to dive into the next. So my book club, my book club with my college pals, one of our friends said, guys, we got it. This is like everywhere. Yeah, you can't escape it. That friend...

is obsessed with the Court of Thorns and Roses books. And I had seen, literally seen her read them for the first time. It was on one of our friend trips a few summers ago. And I watched her get through like a full book. And those are long books in like half a day.

She could not put them down. So I knew that this genre had a grip on somebody who not only I love and care about, but who I spend a lot of time reading books with and discussing books with. She said, we got to read Fourth Wing. We read it pretty close. I can't remember exactly when to when Iron Flame was coming out. And then we read Iron Flame over the winter. So we read both of those pretty close together. And two of the five members of the book club had already read in full A Court of Thorns and Roses by then. And so the other three of us decided we should probably break off.

Squad battle, much like in the other series, Empyrean. And then they both started reading and I was like, I'm right. I don't have time. Why did I suggest this? And so I came to that very late, quite recently. But that's a very long way of saying like,

whether it's because somebody in your life is recommending it or because your book club is reading it or because you're reading the Times piece about the trend or because you're seeing book talk posts everywhere or having a book talk experience curated for you personally by a dear friend who is solely responsible for your TikTok algorithm. Who could it be? Then it just was like the kind of thing that was...

inescapable genuinely. And that's a really fun thing. It's fun when people are excited about books. It's fun when people are excited about a new story, a new fictional world. About the same story. And they're sharing it in, yeah, like at the same time. The monoculture moment. Or even the same sort of moment in time, approximate moment. And so like, I think this is great. Obviously, it's not for everyone. And that's also totally fine. But the fact that there are so many things churning out and people can like

figure out what it's all about together and talk about it in real time with other people who are reading it too. Delightful. What about you? Yeah, I read A Quarter Thorn in Roses. I haven't read through the whole series, but I read several of the books. I'm on the third book. During the pandemic. Yeah. Because people had just been talking about it on BookTok. There's this thing with, I'm not

chiefly on BookTok, but there is this degree of fervor around certain titles that will rise to the level that I will take notice and I will say, wow, I want to know what that is. If ACOTAR is this popular, Quarter Thorn and Roses, or if Fourth Wing is this popular, surely they're probably going to make a TV show or a movie out of it, and I want to have opinions about that before that comes out. And so I read Quarter Thorn and Roses,

during the pandemic and then I read Fourth Wing really early like I think if it came out in May I think I read it in like June yeah something like that like really really fast and then I was like okay yeah we talked about it a little bit you hadn't read it yet right um and then I had heard I didn't love love love it and we'll talk about that in a second um

But you and I talked about it a little bit. I talked about it a little bit on the pod. And then I had heard that Iron Flame, a lot of people thought Iron Flame wasn't as good. Yeah. And I was like, well, if fourth one wasn't my favorite thing, I'm just not going to read Iron Flame because, like, it's fine. I think I understand what this is. Yes. And then we wanted to do this. Yeah. And you wanted to talk about Honing Storm. Yes. So that's when I...

I would say, binged the books over the last week and a half. It was a reread for Fourth Wing, but it was my first time through Iron Flame, which was not, it was not demonstrably different, I thought, than Fourth Wing. Like,

its flaws were over reported to me, I would say. And then Onyx Storm, I just finished last night. And the thing you, the point you make about community, which is something I want to talk about inside of this is so important because I read Akatar in like literal isolation. No one I knew in my life was reading it. And we were like in COVID, we were all in lockdown. I wasn't, I wasn't like on the message boards or inside a community reading it or inside a book club reading it. I read Fourth Wing again, sort of in isolation of my own curiosity, kind of like

Some people in my life have read it since, but like at that time, no one was reading it except all the millions of people on BookTok. But like I wasn't in conversation with them. And so reading the books over the last week and a half and talking to you about them a little bit, hearing what your husband Adam thinks of them, et cetera, et cetera, hearing from getting all these emails from our listeners, the bad babies about it, I felt inside the community. And so then all of a sudden, like the flaws that I find in the books, which are there and you and I both agree on them. Yeah.

matter less than just sort of like we're all enjoying something. We got a lot of emails from listeners that are just sort of like calling it popcorn or fast food, which is not to dismiss it. They're like, I loved this. Love consuming it, yeah. And it's a lot of empty calories, but there's no problem with that. And there are good things that come from that too. So I want to talk about what's in the mix here for romantic singing. You can sort of track...

The reading habits across the last 20, 30 years. You think about the kids who were raised in Harry Potter, who then move into the Twilight era, who then are watching Game of Thrones on TV. This is basically a lot of the stories that we were enjoying in the YA space, like Hunger Games or Shadow and Bone or a bunch of different ones.

Plus a lot of sex. Right. And so now it's in an adult space. Yes. So it is a fantastical adventure with dragons or fey or whatever the case may be. Yeah. But also a lot of adult content along with it. So a little Fifty Shades in there as well, if you prefer. It's very sex positive. Yeah. Which I love. Same. And very sex positive, like for women. Like it is, it's not like.

whatever your feelings about romance, there were stereotypes about romance when I grew up that like women were all sort of frail and fainting and sex sort of like happened to them. And that's not really the case at least with these books. You know what I mean? Like women are...

full of agency, not just inside of their own fantastical adventures that they're having, but also in these like sexual assignations as well. So that's one of the things that I, while I am new to it, you know, so I finished the first two court books.

Yeah. Second one was fucking dynamite. Second one's really good. You told me it was going to be great, and boy, was it. Oh, my Lord. Yeah. And I have read, obviously, the first three Empyrean books. I started the third court book and look forward to reading that soon and to checking out some other series and other authors from there. But so I'm five books in. Yeah. You know, my romantic journey, I'm new. But there are a number of things that have been compelling, but that point that you're making and that quality that you're citing is...

so affirming and genuinely cool to see like Violet and Feyre and other characters in the story have as much sexual desire and passion as any of the dudes around them and that's like an exciting thing to see normalized and to see like a lot of people exposed to also what a time to be alive where millions and millions and millions and millions and millions of people

are reading books about how important the female orgasm is. This is the thing. And like, okay, so alongside this romantic journey, I've been on like this fan fiction journey just for like the last couple of years. And we're going to talk about that. I have a little like fan fiction section to get to, but those are also like very smutty, very spicy. And I was never like a smutty, spicy book reader at all. But reading them, I was like, you know who should read this? Are like

This is a very heteronormative take, but I'm like young men who feel like they don't know what they're doing. Yeah. And I feel like often they're like. It's an instruction manual. Yeah. They're like, oh, I should go watch porn to understand. No, no, no, no. You should read romantic or fan fiction. Totally. Where the female orgasm is like centered. Yeah.

Again, if your agenda as a... Centered in the swirling tongue. If your agenda is the pleasure of your female partner, so let's take heteronormativity out of it. Yes. Who cares who you are? If you are inexperienced sexually and you are looking to please your partner, might I suggest... Check out these tomes. These books. You will learn a great deal. Mallory will do some drawings for you later. Okay.

Yeah. The inverse of that is I do wonder...

My only fear is, you know, I hope this isn't setting up a lot of people for a life of disappointment on the sex front. Not everyone's Reese. Not everyone's Aiden. Yeah, you're not always going to blow up your furniture with lightning bolts because your orgasm was so shattering. Not every sentence in your internal monologue will end with an italicized or unraveled or shattered. Yeah. Whether it were.

But maybe more will. Maybe more will. If people read these books. And wouldn't that be great? It would be great for everyone, I think. So very sex positive. Very sex positive. And then on that community front, it was like very eras tour. Like that lovely like female friendship. Plenty of men read Romanticy. Plenty of men went to go see Taylor Swift. So like I'm not saying that men aren't invited to this party. But like it is a space for women to connect with other women about these things and stories. Yeah.

that were often they were often told they had to be embarrassed by I remember my grandma read romance novels growing up yeah and she had like a little slip cover that she would put on the front of her yeah to hide the shame there's no shame yeah these are best selling bangers and also they don't put Fabio on the cover anymore so like it's a I mean you know and we have lost something

As a result, I can totally remember walking through the grocery store and just, you know, the little side eye trying to sneak a peek. Like, what's Fabio up to now? He's on the he's a pirate. Oh, my God. Book talk has a lot to do with with spreading the word on this. But I really like this point from Christine Larson, who's the author of Love in the Time of Self-Publishing about sort of the romance, romantic boom.

She said, quote, people are feeling unsettled right now. Women especially are often feeling powerless. And the heroine in these books have power. Yes. They gain power and they find love interests who are their equals. That's important to him right now to imagine a different world, end quote. The thing about, let's say, specifically in the Empyrean saga, Zayden, is that he has like a competency kink.

He's just sort of like, I love when you're smart. I love when you're strong. I love this and that and the other thing. I get off on how like badass you are. And this is just like a great thing across these novels is just sort of like, I love your accomplishments. It's not Violet saying Zayden's so smart and so strong and so handsome, which he is. And she does say that. And this thing as well. You know what I mean? I love that. That's a great point. I love that. And like,

Not only do and again, we're in full spoiler territory for both series here. Right. Not only are Zayden and Reese ever renewing resources on that front. Right. It's just a wellspring of adoration and adulation. They are clearly the right choices.

For that reason. Tamlin wants to keep Feyre shut up, locked up, so worried about her safety and harm and there's no trust, right? Dane...

at the beginning of Fourth Wing is like supposed to be the guy that Violet ends up with right up to the, you know, very amusing and painful for Dane payoff in Onyx Storm when they're working their way through the world finally and Violet has discovered her father's journals and people who knew him and they're like, it's gotta be Dane. It's gotta be Dane. Nope, it was Zayden. And like, Dane didn't trust Violet

when she arrived at Vascaith and decided to leave the scribe life behind, become a writer, to make the decisions that were right for her and that she knew were right for her. And so how could he be right for her? He was trying to protect her. She's so fragile. He's trying to protect her. Yeah. And Zayden's like, you can protect. Let me show you how to get stronger. Yeah. Let me help you. But like, you can protect everyone. You're the strongest. You can protect me. And also you're the most important thing. And let's fuck. Yeah, it's great.

We have this email from our listener, Emily. Okay. I get it. It's good. I was told there was a new sound drop for the mailbags and I said out loud.

Is it moaning? Yeah. And you told me it was not. A little smooch-a-roo. I love it. Beautiful. From Steve Ullman, who saw the set deck that John Richter had done and was like, I can play. Here's the thing about the set deck and the sound effects from just the greatest team there is. Not only is it wonderful, not only does it show a commitment and a creativity, it is tasteful.

And I want to just say thank you for your restraint. Because somebody had to have it today. Makes no promises. Okay.

So Emily asks, what do you make of the narrative surrounding books like Fourth Wing as, quote, dragon smut or a series like Akatart being called fairy porn? Is this a misogynistic slight aimed at what is predominantly female-read genre books? Or is it just always seems that mainstream publishing slash literary wants to put genres like romance or romantic down and declare them as unserious? Or...

Do we just fully embrace the smut and own it as what we like to read? And we got several emails like this. And I was – you and I were talking about this the other day. I was like, the first time I heard dragon smut or fairy porn, they came loud and proud from people who love these books and have no shame reading these books. Yeah.

So I only ever heard it as a term from like inside of the reading community who are just sort of like, I love my dragon spots or I love my fairy porn books. So I know, I'm sure that there are plenty of people who want to sneer at people enjoying

a lot of sex inside of their fantasy books. But I don't think, like, these terms necessarily need to be, you know, something... Just, like, own it. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. It's not... I'm sure you're right that there are people out there who it's, like, there's a derisive quality. But, like, it's a badge of honor, right? Or it can be, at least. This is a thing that is bringing people joy. And that's awesome. So, like, let's just say out loud...

what it is without any shame. Exactly. Fantastic. Similarly, our listener Kelly asked, and this, this is a, thank you. This is genuinely something you're, you sent me your husband, Adam's review of fourth wing. And I sent you a similar review of onyx storm, which is like,

This is not the finest prose we've ever written. Oh, yeah. Read. Yeah. We've got some issues with some plot stuff and some confusing whatever. Can't wait to read the next one. Oh, my God. Right? Yes. So Kelly asks, how do we think we should talk about the genre in a way that acknowledges its faults and pushes for higher quality while not dismissing the real entertainment and joy we get from these horny books? So, like, are we allowed to talk? I mean, we are allowed to talk about it, but, like,

I think I was having some before I read through the whole Empyrean series, read back through and got really excited about it. I was a little bit actually dreading this podcast because I was like, I don't want to be the wet blanket. Yeah, I don't like there's two wolves inside of me. And one of them is Miley Rubin and the other one is Andy Greenwald. And like sometimes my inner Andy Greenwald could come out and I'm just sort of like, I've read better written books. Oh, you know, like blah, blah, blah. And this, that and the other thing. And so like, how do I talk about these books?

And going back through them or going through two of them for the first time, I was just sort of like, I just had fun. So who cares? Like, it's not the best book ever. And do I wish that, like,

some better written books were as popular as these books? I do. Yeah, of course. But also we got a lot of emails from people, and I'm going to talk about them in a second, who used these books as sort of gateway to reading a bunch of other books when they had felt like stalled out and that sort of stuff. Yeah. So what do you think about this? So I think that like a couple things. Broadly, I don't think that any book in any genre, any show or movie, like whatever it might be,

that every single person who consumes it is going to or should feel the same way about it. Like, there are going to be people, no matter how highbrow or lowbrow or how, like, stunning or basic anything is, who think it's Shakespeare. And there are going to be people who think it's trash and don't understand why other people like it. And then there's, like, an ocean of possibility in between. Always, right? So I think if...

If there are people who read any of these books and think genuinely, not only did I love this and have fun, but I thought every aspect of this was amazing. I thought the writing was lyrical and beautiful. I thought the world building was the most immersive and gripping that I'd ever encountered. Yeah. I think that's great. And like, I don't, you know, I don't know that this will be the last

book, like you said, like for the gateway idea is very tantalizing. And so like then it leads you to more and you discover more and maybe it remains your favorite and maybe it doesn't. I think there will be people who read these books and think like a lot of it actually is not for them, but there are things that are still compelling about it. And then again, like an ocean of possibility in between my my relationship to I feel like I

I'll hit Empyrean first because I have a slightly different experience with the Court of Thorns and Roses books. The first book, Fourth Wing, I actually found some of the lore, like some of the mythology interesting.

Interesting and cool. Like specifically the signet and the mental bond between the rider and their dragon. Like when Viola is hearing Taryn in her head, I'm just like, cool, this is great. This is my shit, right? Yeah.

However, that's the same thing that I enjoyed on the world-building front in the first place has become one of my bigger gripes about the story as I go, which is like the real, I think, what the Cygnet set up allows. It's just constant deus ex machina where there's just...

The way the story has been structured allows constantly for the thing that needs to be introduced in that moment to be introduced in a way that actually typically like drives me crazy as a reader. She also does this thing where the lore is constantly expanding, which just means she, I feel like she changed her mind about how something should work. And so then like all of a sudden, like,

the wards don't do this or these people can wield when we thought they couldn't wield or this, that, and the other thing. And that's like, it's not, it's not the end of the world, but it's just something like when we get to theory corner, I've, I've been like dabbling in the Reddit theories about what's coming next. I'm excited to dive in. And I'm like, I think you guys are,

But unfortunately, I feel like the rules are constantly shifting under our feet inside of this series. So to craft a theory, you need to know how the rules of the magic work. And the magic is constantly changing. You know what I mean? Yeah. So that's been something that I have had a mixed experience with as I've gone through the series. The prose is not always for me, I will say. I have found the plot.

to be quite predictable, like even by the standards of a predictable plot. So I don't, I'm not like, this is the, this is just, you know, a 10 out of 10, no, no, it's the best thing I've ever read. But there are things I really like about the world and the story. I think Violet's a really cool protagonist. Same. And I just, I mean, unsurprisingly and obviously, like I'm just like enraptured by Zayden. Yeah. Probably the least surprising thing I've ever said on a podcast. And Violet,

I'm interested in their journey and I'm interested in the squad dynamic is something I really love about the world. As you know, I love a magic school. I love a school for magic. I love it.

I'm dragon riding. So that part is fun. I was really glad in Onyx Storm to finally like broaden the map to go to some new places. That was the best part of Onyx Storm. That was probably my favorite part of the story overall so far actually. I think a heavy critique that people had of Fourth Wing was that the world building felt very shallow. Yeah. We're at Beskayeth. We understand you're either a scribe or a writer but like

what else exists in the world. And so we went a few other places in Iron Flame, but the tour of the aisles that they do in Onyx Storm was probably my favorite part of the book. I thought that was really cool. Yeah. So like I'm interested in that and I'd like more of that. And I think that stuff is a little bit more compelling to me than like, frankly, the core stuff.

dark wielder, you know, Venon dynamic. Mostly just because I feel like we all assume we know how that will resolve. It's just a matter of exactly how we get there. But maybe not. Maybe everybody becomes Venon. Everybody goes Venon. And then we're all just walking around with not only throbbing members, but throbbing veins on the temples of our faces. So, yeah. And just to then kind of wind back from some of my specific feelings about it to that overall point, I would say, like,

I think that maybe because of the first thing we were talking about with like, what is romantic scene? Who, who, who is it for? Who do people think it's for? Yeah. Um, I think there's, and this makes complete sense to me. Um,

maybe like more people are bracing right for for a thing that they love to be critiqued or to be like attacked yeah this isn't good this is like this why do you think this is so great and that sucks so i get that there's like a well wait like why do you not think this is good this is great or why do you think this is great this isn't but we don't have to like live in those extremes so um

I have had quite a good time reading all three books despite my notes. I had far and away the most notes about Iron Flame. Iron Flame, I tore through and then got on my book club call and I was like,

In real time, I couldn't stop asking questions and just running through all the notes I had. I thought Fourth Wing was really fun, and I enjoyed Onyx Storm quite a bit, actually. But all of the overall critiques that I have are intact, and the overall things that I like about the story are intact, and then there's a little bit of mileage-varying book-to-book. What's your experience been with those three? Yeah, well, I would say...

I think Violet is a protagonist that I enjoy much more than I enjoy Farrah, but I think Sarah Jane Mass' prose is a bit better.

Something that. Herbaca Yaros does. Inside of her books. Is. There's a lot of contemporary. Like the. The swearing. I don't mind. Because I'm not like. Approved about it. But I feel like she used the swearing. In the first book. Especially. As just sort of this placeholder. For like. I'm tough. There was just like. A lot of like. Fucks and shits and dams. Inside of there. And. And also just like. A lot of contemporary things. That we would say. And so. Which is fine. It's not the end of the world. But like.

You and I, since we're used to sort of like higher fantasy with like,

flowery language and that sort of stuff it was like a little but what I like about that is that that then means there isn't this high barrier of entry for people people feel these are compulsively readable books and so when people start them and they feel like they can't stop them and then they keep reading I just wanted to check in with like a couple other emails we got from like Nicola who said between 2014 2023 that she had read maybe 10 books in total

That's almost a decade at one novel a year. And then she read ACOTAR in one week. That's like my pal. And she said, I felt like I was a teenager again, staying up all night reading, waiting for my coffee while reading, reading on my lunch break. It was like magic. Since starting ACOTAR in September last year, I've gone on to read almost 60 books. Holy shit. The bulk of which fall into the romanticist genre, but I've also revisited more traditional fantasy stories, ventured back into broader dystopian stories. I

I Who Have Never Known Men, that's a great book, and Wool, and Return to My Sci-Fi Roots. My love note is this, quote, Dear Romantasy, thank you for reminding me of the joy I could find in stories. Thank you for bringing me into this community of women and like-minded men who love to lose themselves in these stories. Thank you for helping me prioritize reading. Thank you for helping those of us lost to life stuff find our way back to the stories that fill our hearts with equal parts sorrow and pain.

How lovely. I just love that. Yeah, that's the best. I love that. Wonderful. So like the fact that these books, Akatar and the Empyrean series both are easy to read, readable.

I don't see that as like a negative at all. I see that as an advantage because yeah, once you start that, once you start that momentum, right. You know, and you're just like reading and reading, reading. And then all of a sudden you're just like, Oh my God, this feels so great. What else am I going to read? What am I going to read next? What am I going to read next? That's like the best feeling in the world. I used to talk about that all the time. Cause I remember I'm a bit older than you. And so I remember when Harry Potter came out, there was a lot of sneering around Harry Potter of like,

kids are only reading or Twilight for that matter. Like kids are only reading one thing. Why are they just reading this one thing? Aren't there better kids books out there or whatever? And I'm just sort of like people are reading and they're excited about reading and getting excited about reading means they'll be excited to read other things. And all of that's great. And that doesn't mean that like I think Harry Potter is bad. I just mean I think Harry Potter is a way to open you up to a whole world of stories. Yeah.

And, you know, similarly, Twilight, Hunger Games, whatever it is, it's their...

And that's a gift. Like, Rebecca Yaros, it's a gift to be able to craft a story that people are like, I can't wait to find out what happens next. Even a story that you and I both agree we can, like, see a lot of the twists and turns coming. She's ending her books on cliffhangers. And we're like, dun, dun, dun. Like, let's get the next volume out. And now that we're done with Onyx Storm. If the next one were out right now, we would start it today. We would. Yeah, we would start it today. We would. And we would do so gladly. Yeah.

We already talked about sort of like what prompted us to start our romantic journey. I also want to mention that I was curious because reading romance, I'm aware of the tropes of fantasy. I was way less familiar with the tropes of romance.

So I was like, what are some of the other like big romance? And also in the vein of they're probably going to make a movie or a TV show out of this. And they are making. So Amazon, right, is making Empyrean as a series. And then Hulu is supposed to be doing Akatar, but that's a bit stalled right now. And so Ron Moore like left the production? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Crushing.

Too bad. I'm my guy, as you know. But I just want to say that I read all of the Emily Henry books and all of those books I believe are currently in production as adaptations. Emily Henry is like hugely popular. Her books are really fun. They're not as smutty as these books. They're modern romances, but they're like all of her characters are like pop culture fluent and they all like talk in like movie references and stuff like that. It's really fun. Wonderful.

Allie Hazelwood, who started as a Reylo fan fiction writer. Oh, hell yeah. So if you look at her book covers, all of the characters look like they are Kylo Ren and Rey, but they're all set in the world of STEM, so they're all female scientists. Her latest book just came out. I took a pause between Iron Flame and Onyx Storm, and I read her latest book, which is called Deep End. And we actually had a listener write in recommending that you read it because it is –

It is crazy smutty. And I think you might have a great time with that one. Deep end. Deep end. Yeah. Great. You read another book in the last... I'm like processing.

processing that in real time. How is that possible? These books are quick reads and also I had to pack up my entire life to move down here for two months so I needed something to listen to for some of that. And then Christina Lauren and Abby Jimenez and then I just sort of was like okay I feel like I get it. I don't think it's like necessarily my exact genre but there are some writers in that world that I think are interesting and I want to follow. We got some recs from the bad babies of other books for people to read if they liked these books.

Some people, including me. I'm ready. Hit me. The main one is Throne of Glass, which is Sarah J Maas' other series, which I think a lot of people like even better than... ACOTAR is more popular, but I think for people who like both, a lot of people prefer Throne of Glass. So that also, I think, is in development somewhere for an adaptation. And people are not as high on the Crescent series?

Crescent City, I think, is like her least popular of the series. Interesting. Hobbsanddragonsgmail.com, if you disagree with me, Lexi suggested something called The Assistant to the Villain series by Hannah Nicole Mayer. I looked it up. This one is spice level low, smut level low. Okay. But it features a cast of characters I feel you all would agree need their own merch immediately, including an ogre who loves to bake and a dragon named Fluffy.

Wonderful. Fantasy, fantasy, like more romance than like smut man's, you know what I mean? Sex man's.

Katie, meanwhile, has a spicy rack. And she says, from Blood and Ash slash Flesh and Fire prequel series, Jennifer L. Armentrout. She says, I literally got a dagger with poppies for the female main character Poppy. And then she also recommends Zodiac Academy prequel and sequel series by sisters Caroline Peckham and Susan Valenti. Zodiac Academy is one that I've seen. Sisters are co-authoring the series.

How does that feel? The smut books? Yeah. Would you write with a sibling? I personally would not. Okay. But I would. I would write with a friend. Oh, I mean. Oh, yeah. Okay, great. That would be thrilled. The Zodiac Academy, I have seen a lot of people recommend. Katie says, FYI, don't read these at work if you have downtime. Try us. Not safe for work. Try us. We're at work right now, baby. Okay.

Taya recommended Once Upon a Broken Heart by Stephanie Garber. Wait, on that don't read at work front, what's the most like, oh my God, I can feel my cheeks burning experience you've had reading something really sexy in public? In public? Yeah. I try not to, I don't do that in public. Okay. It's funny because I was like. Same. Tell me yours. Actually, don't. Tell me yours immediately. Okay.

I mean, you will appreciate this. You will love it. You're the perfect person to tell. When I was reading A Song of Ice and Fire for the first time. Oh, sure. And so you don't know. So, I mean, when I'm reading Empyrean books, like, I am prepared at any point for a graphic sex scene. And I am reading these alone. With Thrones, like, I was...

routinely reading on the subway on the way to and from work in New York. Yeah, I miss the subway commute reading situation. I miss having the opportunity to read on the way to work, but I don't miss being on a subway. You see my response every time we come in here to the temperature in the room. You can imagine how I am on a subway. Plus all the aromas. Oh my God, no. I do miss the New York subway. No. But I have such a vivid memory of reading...

The Lord's Kiss. John and Ygritte in the cave for the first time on the subway, very aware that a seemingly very sweet old lady was like reading it over my shoulder. And I was just like... And you kept on KP on? Oh, I wasn't going to stop. Were we kindling or paperbacking? I was reading, because I was in transit, I was reading on a Kindle. Okay. Yeah, I was reading on a Kindle. Highlighting. She was watching us highlight.

I think I probably saved the highlighting for later. But yeah, I was like, oh boy, this is, she's just reading. She is reading and watching me read this. And that is an experience that we have shared. I have had the experience, again, I'll talk about fan fiction in a second, but like fan fiction is one of those where like,

Oftentimes there's nothing, there's nothing, there's nothing. And then all of a sudden you're in the chapter that earned the thing. It's E rating and E for explicit. If that happens to me, I will close that down and I'll be like, save it for later. Save it for later. Okay. But there's no shame in the game of reading that stuff in public is how I feel about that. And I also think that like,

We got a couple emails about this, and this is a prevailing narrative I've seen where some people are like, why is the Song of Ice and Fire not called Dragon's Mud? Because George does write sex scenes. George wrote a sex scene where, I mean, listen, pink mast is a term in the fandom for a reason. Sweet Sam suckled on a T-4.

Full of breast milk and he loved it. I think George is incredibly bad at writing sex scenes. And personally. And I don't think anyone rings A Song of Ice and Fire for the sex scenes. Correct. Yeah. So I don't. Whereas people can identify chapter in verse with.

the sections of the Empyrean saga that involve acrobatic violent sex scenes. I told you this already to this point. Yeah. I... You know, our phones are spying on us, etc. I have been served so many, so many reels about Onyx Storm. And I was trying to avoid spoilers, but also, like, the memes are good. Yeah. The reels are good. So I was watching some of them. And...

There was one. Because you already knew. I was ahead of you in Onyx Storm. And you were like, where's the slut? I was like, so chapter 49. I knew the exact chapter that I was waiting to get to. Because I had seen an incredible Instagram reel. I wish I could remember. I'm so sorry. I wish I could remember who posted it. Where the woman was...

save it because we're gonna get to that later but on the chair and doing the thing and then her partner walks in and she flops down it's like what are you doing reading reading and i was like oh my god i can't wait to find out what this is about incredible and um and then you did and then i did a couple other uh wrecks uh teo recommended uh this one's also light on the smut once upon a broken heart um

Larry recommended I roved out in search of Truth and Love, a webcomic by Alex Flowers.

And he said, Larry said, though not necessarily romantic, it is certainly sexy, tropey, and some of the most beautifully rendered comic art I've found. NSFW in the highest order. The amount of bodily fluids portrayed crosses the border of silly and travels deep into the land of absurd. I hope you enjoy an Elvish Romp with Cinder and Mary. Are you going to be consuming this? Uh.

I'm ordering it immediately. Wow. Jeez. Okay. The amount of bodily fluids portrayed crosses the boardroom. I'm...

Eager to explore. Eager to explore further. Last but not least, Maggie says, Mila Vane's A Heart of Blood and Ashes. Oftentimes my issue with books labeled romance-y is that they are never true melding of both genres. A Heart of Blood of Ashes is to me a perfect 50-50. We have some truly classic fantasy elements in this book and the romance feels specific to the story and true. Also, Mal, there is a really good smut in this. Like, really good.

In the second book, yes, I've smuggled a second book rec into this. Please be proud. We are. The best friend of the two leads, different couple in this book, is a giant snow cat named Caleb who descended from a god. You will love him. I already do. Yeah. I already do. That one seems of all the recs, I feel like Maggie really nailed you. Oh my God. Jeez. Wow. Fan fiction corner. Are you ready?

I'm thrilled to be back on Fan Fiction Corner with you. It's always a treat. We're honored to get this update from you. You've given us a couple glimpses into your consumption previously, and I am... I and I know the bad babies have been eager for an update. I'm not a fan fiction, like, expert. I really have just one...

thing that I read. You have a particular passion. Yeah. And what's funny about this, which is, if you've not listened to me talk about this before, it's the very, very extremely popular Draco and Hermione, Dromione, Harry Potter fan fiction. Yes. And, um,

reading Violet and Zayden and reading Feyre and Rhys, they're all so Germini coded. It's not even funny. This is just the same dynamic over and over and over again. And we all really like it. So this is, this is what's true. And in terms of like Germini and Romantici, like obviously there's magic, there's like magical creatures, there's all this sort of stuff inside of these,

stories, there is a whole subset of Harry Potter fan fiction, which is like AU, non-magical. And it's just like Hermione and Draco go to university and they're normal people. And I'm like, that's not for me. I don't want that. I want the magic spells. I want all the other things that come with it. So this is romantic to me, is the Hermione fan fiction. So Lexi wrote in to ask, um,

If we were tapped in on all of the Draco and Hermione fanfic that is being adapted into traditionally published novels this year. Lexi says the stories have unlocked both a new way to engage with the characters while being a bit detached from J.K. Rowling. And more importantly, a deep yearning in my heart for Draco that may in fact rival Mal's feelings for young Harrison Ford. Come on. I mean, wow. What a bar. You say that, but. What a bar.

Until you read some Germini, I feel like you need to sort of like press pause on your scoffing. I mean, young Harris and Ford, it's just, oh no, I'm not scoffing. I'm just saying this would mean that it was the most appealing thing in the history of the world. It genuinely might be. Great. Okay. Here are the three books that are coming out quite soon. Okay. Tell me. The big one is a book called Alchemized by Sun Lin Yu, which was a story called Manacled. It's coming out summer 2025. Manacled was on...

AO3, which is the fan fiction website, archive of our own, you can sort by popularity. Yeah. Kudos. Manacled was at the top of the Dramini thing since I started reading it. Okay. Through now. It is by far and away the most popular Dramini fan fiction. It is quite long. It is quite dark. It's got some like Handmaid's Tale elements to it and that sort of stuff like that. So basically what she's done, she's taken that story and...

I mean, Fifty Shades of Grey started as Twilight fan fiction. Like, this is an old thing where you just sort of like reskin the fan fiction you've written. So she has taken out all the Draco and Hermione, renamed the characters, but the story remains the same. Got it. Interesting. There's one called...

The Irresistible Urge to Fall for Your Enemy by Brigitte Knightley, which was this other – I would say the second most popular Dramati fan fiction, Draco Malfoy and the Mortifying Ordeal of Being in Love, which is coming out July 2025. And last but not least, Julie Soto, Rose and Chains, which was a story called The Auction, coming out July 2025.

Draco Malfoy and the Mortifying Ordeal of Being in Love, if you can't tell from the title. And I talked about both Manicoles and this one on our Valentine's Day pod last year before they were, I think, traditionally published. That one's more of a rom-com, like very light in tone, very funny. This is a really interesting moment for...

traditional publishing they're of course looking for a romanticist wherever they can find it based on the numbers that they found yeah and and fan fiction's a really good place to go diving for this you've got a story that's like pretty much already written people already like it right and all the people who have already read Manacled are automatically going to read Alchemized you know they've already read it but they're going to read it again so what level of tweaking beyond the character names is there typically I don't I don't

It depends, I think. Yeah, there's various. Yeah, you can... Because I think if you read Fifty Shades not knowing it was Twilight fan fiction, I don't think you would think that it had anything to do with Bella and Edward. But things like Red, White, Royal Blue, a very popular book that's based on

I talked about this last time, I think, fan fiction about Jesse Eisenberg. You know, like, it's... Fan fiction has the origin for stories. You can dramatically reskin or you can, like, lightly reskin. But...

Either way, Drominey's super popular and the publishers are taking notice. And if Alchemized as a book takes off, then we're going to get an Alchemized miniseries. It's all going to be perfectly legal and above board. In terms of how much do you tweak it, you definitely tweak it enough that J.K. Rowling cannot sue you for it. What I'm interested in is how much is tweaked from... How much of what was in Manacled is tweaked for...

alchemized. Right. Like, not just in terms of good... No, no, that's what I mean. Yeah, like, is it... Are sometimes people writing a fanfic that is seven chapters and then the book version is going to be...

Like how much expanding of the story is it? Or is it actually like we're just changing the names and publishing this as a book? I would say Manicold, which was a very long fanfic, is not going to be sort of probably expanded on. Though I believe that the one based on the auction is going to be a duology. Okay. So I think that, you know, she was probably going to expand on that one. But in terms of like not getting sued, fanfiction itself falls under this sort of like fair use because you're not –

You're not profiting from it. It's free for people to read, and so you're not profiting from it. So you cannot get sued by Rowling or anyone else unless –

You are selling it. And there was this whole drama inside the fan fiction community where people were taking fan fictions, printing them out, binding them and selling them on like Etsy or stuff like that so that you could have a physical copy of the beautiful cover that you loved. But that violates. And people were getting in trouble for that. That violates legally. And so a lot of people were taking their fan fictions down because like there was no controlling it. Anyway, a whole drama. Jeez.

In better news. Yeah. And we are going to get back to the dragon smut in a second. But sometimes there are dragons in these stories as well. I should hope so.

Shania and Carolyn both wrote in. This just, like, really pleased me. Both of them wrote in to say that a fanfic that I read that I recommended last year, De Traque. Yes. Was not only their favorite fanfic they read, it was their favorite thing they read last year. And I'm here to tell you, it was in progress when I recommended it last year. It has since finished. Finished. So Shania was like, what did you think of the ending? You loved it. I'm here to tell you, and...

I just preached for so long about how we should not be embarrassed about the things we love. Yeah. This might be one of my favorite books of all time. Great. Genuinely. Oh, my God. I keep revisiting sections of it. I think it is incredible. So if you've not read. I love it.

I love this. De Tra K, if you are a fan fiction reader and you've not read this, if you're a Dramiety reader, if you've not read this, if you're anything, you've not read this. I just think it is one of the best written things I've ever enjoyed. And that's a good entry point for people who have not consumed any fan fiction and want to try something, you think? Is that a good starting point or build up to it?

I might slightly build up to it, but like, especially if you're looking for, it does have an E for explicit, but it takes a while because we're with Hermione sort of like for a few years before she leaves Hogwarts, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Okay. And then I have some new recommendations. Amazing. My current obsession is a story called The Witch King in Wilshire. Hell yeah. Great title. Yeah, exactly. Isn't it so good? Really good. But,

I think it's Quinn Akrid One Rose, I would say, is the name of this author. It is one of the filthiest things I've ever... Like, this is the thing for me. I'm so excited for you to be on your romantic journey because you're like, wow, these sex scenes in The Empyrean. And I'm like, yes. I love them, yeah. Love them. And there's so much more waiting for you. I mean, I... When we talked about this last year, I was like, really...

eager to dive in because I as I mentioned then I I used to read fan fiction in college all the time and loved it but I just haven't I don't know why haven't read it in years not because I don't want to or wouldn't love it no I'm so I am I'm excited to get back into it I uh it certainly I know it's for me but it certainly still has more of a stigma than I would say romantic does right now

The Witch King Wilshire is one of the filthiest things I've ever read in my entire life.

With the most lyrical, poetic prose, like there's just full chapters of like the most bonkers things you've ever read with the most beautiful language you've ever read at the same time. I can't get over every time she posts another chapter. It's just one comment for me that's just like that. And I never comment on fan fiction. I'm like, this is the best thing I've ever read. This is the best thing I've ever read. This is the best thing I've ever read. It's so good. What do you do when you have the experience where you find a story you love? It's in progress. Yeah. And then...

It gets abandoned. Never finish. The George R.R. Martin, if you will. It happens. I remember experiencing that a couple times back in the day and it was like agonizing. Agonizing! Or like sometimes there's just like a year-long pause and then it comes back and it feels like great, thrilling. I'm just going to run through a couple other recommendations for folks. Chin Up by Neil Istik is an in progress one right now.

Also incredibly filthy. This is a face-off retelling, and it's really something. It's really funny. Face-off retelling. It's really, really smart, and it's very smutty at the same time. You Do It For Me by ZB3. This is insanely smutty, but also very sweet. I cannot get over this one. You Do It For Me is just like...

Basically, she started as, I think, a single chapter experiment. And then she just kept going with, how many other escalations can I write while maintaining the tender heart of this story? It's quite amazing. Lionheart, which is not incredibly smutty, but it is very, very, very well written by Green Tea Cup.

One called Bloody, Slutty, and Pathetic by a writer called What Murder is the name of the author. This is truly unhinged sub-Draco. Draco is an absolute criminal, but also he is the titular bloody, slutty, and pathetic of this story. Okay.

A Hard Row to Ho by Blessed Toaster, where Draco is an assassin. It's very funny and very smutty. And last but not least, I think I mentioned this last time, but I'm just going to do it again. Remember One Thing by Pacific Rimbo. And this is not Jermaine. It is Pansy Parkinson and Neville Longbottom, which is like the second –

second very, very popular ship that's been growing and growing and growing inside of this community. Right. And it actually really, really works in a way that you would be surprised. Interesting. But this one's absolutely beautiful. Was the journey of discovery for that story like, okay, I'm on AO3. I'm reading a lot of these stories. I see that this is also popular. I'm going to check it out. It was more I really liked this author. And I was like, what else has she written? And this one was really popular. And I was like, oh. So that's about as far as we've gone. So that is...

Those are my recommendations. And I think they're all really, really well written. Yeah. And most of them are also really, really, really filthy. So in the spirit of what we're here to do today. Great stuff.

I was sort of Shannon wrote in asking for Steve and Bucky Stucky recommendations in the year of Thunderbolts. I don't – I have not read any Stucky fan fiction. This seems astonishing to me. This is a clarion call to the bad babies. If you're a Stucky fan fiction reader, send us to HobbsandDragons.gmail.com. I've not read any. And then Carolyn – and this is a good transition into our next section where I am going to hand the mic over to you –

Carolyn says, Romanticity is not my preferred genre of smut, but I'd like to recommend one specific piece of ACOTAR fan fiction, Embers and Light, by an author called Dusk and Starlight. And so ACOTAR, we've talked a bunch about Empyrean. We mentioned Feyre and Rhys, but you have – tell us a little bit more about your journey into ACOTAR and

And a year ago, I read you some wing-based smut. You did. And you have since experienced the entirety of it for yourself. Boy, have I. Tell me your thoughts and feelings. So I'm really having fun with the series. I had a little bit of a hard time getting started with the first book, which I started last summer, probably.

on a family trip to the Outer Banks. And then it ended up, like, picking up and I got into a better rhythm with it when I got home. And I would say I enjoyed it, but I didn't love it. Yeah. And I think one of the things that was slightly...

So I sort of have, like, again, kind of a little bit of an inverted experience with this and Empyrean, because I actually found this in a really kind of cool and exciting way surprising to read. You know, like when Feyre... Again, spoilers. I was not surprised, of course, because it's, like, the premise of the series, and I understood that, that... how the journey got started, right? That she's going to end up in... It's sort of like a Beauty and the Beast retelling sort of thing. Yeah. But...

I knew, like, nothing about the story beyond that. Nothing other than the completely out-of-context passage you had read for me. Yeah. So, everything with Talon at the spring cord, but, like, once we got under the mountain and we're, like...

Actually, from the first moment that Rhys appeared and then, of course, he's very present under the mountain. And the trials. Now, can I ask you a question? Yeah. Now that you've read two different Romantic things. Yeah. When Rhys first shows up, were you like, oh, since I've met Zayden, I know what this is. So this was this was exactly what I was going to say next. Like, so I enjoyed the.

mystery of the plot and what was going to happen when and everything that leads toward the... the High Lords all coming together to revive Farah. I was like, okay, interesting. I...

I found it disorienting to have read already at that point, Fourth Wing and Iron Flame, and then go to this, even though I know and acknowledge that this came first. Because Reese and Zayden are so similar. Like, not just the, oh, you're kind of like, everybody thinks you're the bad guy and you're the asshole. But I'll be the one who sees your sweetheart that no one else is allowed to glimpse. Like, no.

Literally the nature of some of their powers are the same, you know, like the shadow and the darkness and all that. So that just was hard for me to... And credit to Leigh Bardugo because the Darkling and Shadow and Bone got there first before either Reese or David. Yeah, and like it's, you know, the fact that it is an archetype and obviously a potent one, an effective one.

I think allowed me to get over it pretty quickly. But it was like, at first, I'm just like, okay, so clearly this is going to be the guy, not Tamlin. And I had never really liked Tamlin. So that was fine with me. The first book is tough because nobody likes Tamlin. Yeah. And then she's like, it's a bait and switch. I was like, you took way too long with that bait to get to the switch. Yeah. Yeah. And I think also then it's like, probably if you did like Tamlin, that's a pretty bad feeling. Like, that's a tough one. Yeah. But...

Book two, Mist and Fury. So you had read me that very scintillating stretch. My two pals who have read the series cover to cover multiple times and just love it. Amazing. Both said that the second book was their favorite. So I was really excited to read the second book and really tore through it and loved it. And like,

on the, you mentioned the romance tropes, you know, that like forced proximity trope of like putting these people together and then you just kind of know that something's going to happen and you get, you're excited to see when the characters start to admit to themselves what we know is inevitable, et cetera. It's just like formula that works for a reason. Yeah. And the widening of that group and that friend set and like learning, again, the similarities are,

are a little like, it has been a little bit distracting to me. Zayden's got his private secret world and we learned that his true motives are X and same thing with Reese, right? So it's just very similar, but I did find it in both cases, like,

that part to be pretty compelling, actually. So, you know, that's better than if the parts that have been super similar was less compelling. And I had the opposite experience where I read Agatar first. And when I got to Fourth Wing, as soon as she meets Zayden on, like, the moment, I was like, oh, there's Reese. Okay. So, like, yeah, it depends which order you get into. Yeah, I think Zayden had imprinted on me. Yeah, of course. Right? So I was like, oh, okay.

Okay, like, and we're just like doing Zayden again, even though again, for the record, I know Reese came first. But I did. I just ended up just like in snares. Book two. Great stuff. Yeah. By Reese and Bookdale. Yeah. Holy shit. And, you know, both of the series do this well. The building and mounting and escalating of the sexual tension. Did you say building, mounting, and escalating? Building, mounting, escalating, quailing. A lot of talk of quailing. Quivering.

That, like, I mean, I'm like, because you've got to be fucking patient in book two. You're waiting, you're waiting and waiting. And then you're like, they have wound up in this filthy fucking hotel room. And there's only one bed. And even then...

you just get a taste of what awaits. And I'm like, yeah, we're in the hands of an expert here. Oh, master. This is just... My God. So that was really fun. I really enjoyed that book. And then actually, I immediately wanted to start the third book. I made a tragic mistake, which was I went to... I was out book shopping, went to Skylight, one of my faves. Great. And love it. And I...

because I am an idiot and had not had enough coffee that day or something. I don't know. Picked up what I thought was the third book and just looked at the back cover. It was the fifth book. But the first sentence of the back told me something I did not want to know.

So I'm annoyed with myself for making that mistake. But then I grabbed the third book and I started it right away. But this is all pretty recent. And I actually decided like I was worried that if I read it and was like a halfway or three quarters of the way and then had to stop for Onyx Storm. Again, it would be like disorienting and weird and that I didn't want to do that. So I read a couple chapters because I couldn't resist. And then I'm like, I'm going to put this away and wait.

I knew we were on a timeline, right, for Onyx Storm, both for this and because I'm reading it once again with my college pals for book club. We're discussing it in person together next week. Oh, fun. In plain ear shot of strangers passing us at a cafe, presumably. Can't wait. And I'm looking forward to continuing it. So my understanding is that the fourth book, which is like the novella, is not something people love. But we'll see. Yeah. We'll see.

I've really enjoyed chatting with our colleague Megan Schuster about these stories. She just torn through them and we have a lot of fun talking about them. And community. Yeah. Building. It's great. I love it. I mean, how did you feel? I read specifically the section, a section where they're talking like this is the thing about romanticism, specifically romanticism. We talked about how when Zayden and Violet have sex in all of these books, they're

Because we're basically bending elements a lot of time in this book series. She's a lightning wielder. He's a shadow wielder. So it's just sort of like we're lighting things on fire with lightning. We're wrapping things with shadows. We're binding appendages with the shadows, which act as like sort of tentacles or like whatever. I feel like we can get much more imaginative with the shadows than she's gotten with so far. We shall see. And with A Court of Thorn Roses, like...

The fact that like this Rhys who is a fae who has wings. Yeah. And the wings themselves have like erogenous zones to them. Yes, very sensitive. Like when you are writing like fantasy smut and you've got like soul bonds and mind bonds and all sorts of stuff like that or like magic or this, that and the other thing, we can suspend things, we can do this and that. Yeah.

It just gives you so much more opportunity inside of your smut writing that like your straight arrow romance writers don't get to play with. Totally. So like the wings of it all. How did that work for you? Wonderfully. Very well. Great. Wonderfully. And even just honestly before any of the sex scenes, like the fact that he, I mean, we learn to winnow. That's very fun. But, you know, he's part Illyrian. He can fly. And that...

closeness, right? Of, like, carrying her. It just, again, really helped to stoke that flame. But the, yeah, also, like, the intimacy, because it's sex and it's passion, but there's... I think both of these series do a good job of...

using sex for something that is obviously a deeply emotional thing for these couples, not just a physical thing. And so like with Reese and his wings, that maybe is my, I don't know, one of my favorite examples of that so far where like,

The wings are not only sensitive in a way that brings some pleasure, like there's danger there, right? There's trust. There's vulnerability, right? And so to let somebody touch his wings is like an act of, a rare act of closeness and care that not a lot of people are afforded. One of the great mental images that you can be treated to is the kneeling on the bed with the wings out and get to see the thigh tats for the first time.

Wonderful stuff. Did you look up any fan art? So I have Googled, I will say because I've not finished the series with extreme care because I'm like actually really worried about getting spoiled. So but I did want to see how people were drawing Reese. So I Googled him and just like really tried. And it was easy because I need corrective lenses. I need glasses and can't see. It was actually pretty easy. Yeah.

Did not see the words. And I just got to look at some of the pictures, which was nice. And I have looked at some fan art for Zayden, though. There's a whole thing as well, right? Because when Fourth Wing came out, so many people were drawing Zayden as a white character, and he is not. He is not. So that was...

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We're doing a segment that we're going to call, and this is Mallory's idea, diagramming the top three Zayden and Violet sex scenes from the Empyrean Saga. To be clear, and this is the nature of collaboration. Yeah. I requested that we diagram one scene. Yeah. And you expanded it to three. Sure did. And that is partnership. It's a trilogy. So we're going to get out some whiteboards. Okay.

That Mallory sourced. Wonderful. Thank you to the team for hunting these down. For finding them. In response to my 9 p.m. Slack asking, do we have whiteboards? Do we have whiteboards from the live show from last year? We've got one sex scene is your... Okay. We've got one sex scene per Imperium book. They're all quite famous. I picked the most famous ones. Would you say? Absolutely. And...

the Iron Flame one is Pantheon. God, dear. I can't wait to get to that one. We're gonna start with Fourth Wing. Yeah. Spoiler, the Onyx Storm one is the one that I'm like, what? That's the one that started this. So the first two are gonna be easy. And then the third one, we're gonna have some problems. Okay. I'm excited. I'm gonna read. Okay. Are you? I'm gonna try not, yeah, because you're drawing. So I'm gonna read. I'm gonna try not to die of embarrassment. I'm happy

them if you prefer. Thank you to tap me in. Once again, the all male lineup in the production booth over there for being here with us today. Yes. Fourth wing. OK. Furniture demolition derby. And this is a Yellow Jackets reference. This credenza is a fuck fest. Fuck fest. Wait, quick show of hands. Have any of you read these books or will this be your first exposure to these stories? What we're about to read.

I got like a third of the way through Iron Flesh. No, no, fourth wing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Steve was listening to fourth wing. John? I have no idea what's going on. Okay, great. Wonderful. Let's do it. Chapter 30. I can't draw, by the way. I'm not going to get fired, right? You're my boss. It's going to be fine. This is content. This is work. Reaching up. Okay. I grasp the top edge of the armoire with one hand.

So I can rock back with more force. Meeting the drive of his hips, taking him deeper, harder. Wait, I'm already...

Top edge of the armoire. How tall are armoires though? Maybe this was a good one to diagram. I picture an armoire as being quite tall. Violet is canonically quite short. He's got her like up around him. Her thighs are wrapped around his waist. This is the problem with picking an excerpt instead of reading the whole damn thing. We're not reading the whole chapter. Okay. So she's grasping. She's like straddling him standing. Yep.

The top rock back with more force. Force, meaning the drive of his hips taking him deeper, harder. He drags one of my nightgown straps off my shoulder and the cool night air kisses the hardened peak of my nipple. A heartbeat before his hot mouth covers it. Okay. Yes. The sensation spiral spinning and coiling, forming a tight knot of pleasure so deep within me. The tension is sublimely unbearable.

The armoire door groans, then splinters off the hinges. And Zayden's shadows whip out, protecting me as the frame snaps and wood crashes around us. My power flares, rising in answer to his, sizzling beneath my skin as I grab a hold of his shoulders, my mouth finding his. There's no stopping. We can't stop. I

So that's chapter 30 of Fourth Wing in which they break the armoire. Yes, the shed. I just don't know what I've drawn. Here's... If I can critique my own work. I feel like you should show us as you explain what's happening. So it appears that I have drawn... It appears that I have drawn... Here's the armoire. Yeah. And...

I think I made an initial mistake with just some scaling and the direction of Violet's arms. And here are some breasts. And I accidentally made Zayden, this is supposed to be a tongue, but I accidentally made Zayden the Pixar lamp.

Instead of a sex god. And that was not what I was intending, but it is what happened. Oh my god. And then here are the shadows, and then, you know, we're going to get some lightning strikes. Some lightning and some fire. Yeah. It's a crown, but also fire. Yeah, okay. Yeah. Sexy. What do you think? Sexy. Would you have drawn it differently? This is... I like how they're floating. I'm just going to sign this here.

Just a Mallory Rubin original right here. This is the easy one, so I can't wait to see what happens. I'll do some more shadows so that they're holding him up. He kind of looks like Dio, the little droid from Rise of Skywalker. I don't know what happened there. Okay. I have to erase this, sadly. Luckily, it's been committed to film. Oh my God. Oh my God. You know,

I never claimed to be an artiste, just an enthusiast. What do you think Preston, our rat friend, thinks of all of this? Oh, man. Preston is... Preston likes levity, you know? So I feel like Preston's favorite character is Riddick, I think. Oh, 100%. Preston likes a zinger. This is good stalling while I erase my really weirdly large but also tiny drawing. Okay. What do you think Preston thinks of Broccoli the Kitten? Oh, man. Broccoli. Broccoli.

Great stuff. I thought it was really wonderful. I love an orange tabby. I thought it was really wonderful that...

that Broccoli went back with the squad. We got several emails about Broccoli. I should hope so. I should hope so. Okay. Thank you. Iron Flame, chapter 48. This is my favorite sex scene in the story so far. You have selected a mere fragment of it in my memory. Yeah, but this is the one that we want to draw, I think. Yeah, but in my memory, it's like a 50-page. My...

My chair, my house, my woman, my how big was that throne exactly is the question. I should say we got an email that I did not get to from I think it's Adam whose wife did like a sort of book reading camp with her friends for Onyx Storm. They like rented an Airbnb. They all went there when Onyx Storm came out. They

They had all this like swag and stuff like that. And they had these like really adorable cookies that were like decorated in fourth wing sort of quotes and drawings. And one of the cookies just said, my chair, my house, my woman. Incredible. Great stuff. Okay. Okay. I think my chair, my house, my woman might be the most famous of the Empyrean saga quotes, right? Probably. Yeah. Yeah. I'll have to check the total on the Kindle highlights. That's always a good indicator. Yeah, it is. Okay. Okay.

Have I mentioned I love this chapter? The Kindle highlights are bizarre because usually they're just sort of like, I love you. And I'm like, okay, but like everyone says that. It's interesting for me personally, if I'm reading a Kindle, I'll sometimes I'll just highlight a beautiful, not necessarily, just in general, like a beautiful passage that I love. But often because I'm using, if I'm using my Kindles often for work, I'll like highlight something I want to remember or like a mythology nugget. So then I've lost kind of my ability to understand how most people use them. But yeah.

Okay. I feel like people are collecting quotes from their wedding vows based on what gets highlighted in these books. You know what I mean? Like, or to stitch on a pillow. I don't know. Chapter 48. He grasps one of my thighs and drapes it over the arm of the throne. Yes. Okay. How do I? Start with the throne. Gotta get some. If only I knew how to draw, I could get the right, like, angles. Which is, this is really a, frankly, a chapter about getting the right angles. This is a geometry chapter. Okay.

Okay. He's grasped one of her thighs, drapes it over the arm of the throne, then braces his knee at the edge of the cushion and lifts my other leg over his shoulder as he slides down my body. I'm trying to drop a kite. Basically a cat or a kite. I'm trying to drop a kite. Okay, I got to slow down. Okay, hold on. Hold on. Draw the throne. Okay. I don't know how to drop. This was your idea. I don't know how to drop.

Wait, let me start this one over. I'm going to keep it simple. I'm going to go with... Okay. All right. Chair. Yeah. Okay. Just a chair. It's a chair. It's got arms, though. It's got... Oh, yeah. The arms are crucial. Okay. Oh, wait, but... Okay. He grasps one of my thighs and drapes it over the arm of the throne, then braces his knee at the edge of the cushion and lifts my other leg over his shoulder.

Okay. One leg over the throne, one leg over his shoulder. His knee is braced at the edge of the cushion. Oh, a cushion. Don't worry about it. Edge of the seat. Okay. His knee edge of the seat, her arm over one, her leg over one arm of the chair, other leg over his shoulder. Okay.

These are all incredibly athletic, strong. They do their dragon Pilates people. So bear that in mind. Oh my God. I've drawn like a ladybog. The thigh muscles are important for gripping as we ride our dragons. Yeah. I actually can't do a stick figure for this one. I feel like I've got to like... We need some...

Okay. Are you ready? Okay. Yeah. Yep. As he slides down my body, lowering his head as he works his fingers ceaselessly, beckoning the endless waves. Oh, God. I'm going to die right here, right now. And this is Zayden. Every time I have to sit with the assembly, I'll be thinking about this, about you. He slides his hand. How are we doing? Um, I...

Great. Great. He slides his hand under my ass and lifts me to his mouth, then replaces his fingers with the thick stab of his tongue.

Again, I'd like to just state for the record that this is one of the most important chapters to ever exist in the history of fiction. I can't wait to see how you've rendered it artistically. Where for 30 pages, Zayden Ryerson performs oral sex on Violet Sorengale on his family throne. Refuses reciprocation because he wants her to know that he worships her. Yes. And then at the end of that chapter when she's like bringing up Kat. Yeah. And he's like, I've never fucked her with my tongue.

And that's important because in book three, when we were trying to remember who characters are, you're like, I remember Kat. He never fucked her with his dog. That's a real problem. I have to say with Auding Storm, with love and respect. All time. Who's that? Oh, dude. The first maybe three chapters. Yeah. I was flipping back to like the map and character guide.

With a frequency and a quickness. I'm prepared to show you my drawing. Okay. I was going to say. Please. No, go ahead. Do you want me to say a little bit more? Just say it. Full-blown Z spoilers for the end of Onyx Storm. There's a big, like, there's a mole, a betrayal reveal. And I was literally like. Oh, yeah. Who? I meant to ask you because you said there was someone you were. I mean, not really. I'm like, he's an instructor at the university. But, like, does he have a personality beyond that?

No, no, not pan check. Okay, show me. Show me your drawing. I feel better about this one. Okay, great. Perhaps I shouldn't. I think we can only go up from the armoire situation. I call this, I have fucked her with my tongue. What?

Please, the stars. Okay. Please talk to us about the stars. So the stars, Violet's, you know, earlier we were recording another podcast. We were talking about a couple that were shipping and that podcast is for later, so I won't go into the details, but you use the term... Seeing stars. Seeing stars. It's been stuck in my head all day. You're welcome. Thank you, Violet. This is Violet's signature silver hair. Yeah. I can definitely tell. These are the stars that she's seeing. These are... So...

Let me color them in here just in case you're missing them. These are the thighs. Because so much of this is about the exact angle that Violet is... The recline angle. One arm of the throne. Yeah, and the angling. But here's the problem. Here's the problem. This is an excellent piece of art. Thank you. This is Zayden. Yeah. Right here. And you would think on his... That's his tongue. You would think on his knees, right? Yeah, yes. But his knee is braced against the cushion of the throne. He's quite tall. So I guess... Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, let's see. And then he's bent over her. So... That was my question. Do you think, with love and respect, I don't need to get too personal with Rebecca Yaros, but do you think she makes her husband, with whom she's had many, many, many blonde children, you know, practice these with her? So I've thought about this a lot in general. Like, if you're writing this stuff...

Okay, what a thrill for your partner to get to go around being like, I inspired Zayden. Whether or not that's true, who knows? But like, God, that must be a great feeling. Though obviously, it's not always the case. I'm thinking of... Zayden appears to have...

nine different appendages. Is that what's happening there? Well, I think that's often how it feels, right? Because he's such a gifted lover. He's beckoning endless ways. He's such a gifted lover. I mean, he's a very generous lover. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, one of the great things about Zayden is, you know, he's always saying things to her like, I love that little sound you make when you come. And like, he wants to not just bring her to a, uh,

an orgasm so shattering that she, we get a, an italicized shattered or unraveled. He wants to then do it again and again.

And again. Give me another. And again. Yeah. We got all night. They just exist inside of the Fleabag season two nine times. That's their life. Yes. Except when it isn't. And then they are kept apart or they don't feel like they could touch. Shut up, Rebecca Yarrow. For her ability to invent new scenarios in every book wherein they can't touch each other. Excellent work, Mal and Ruben.

10 out of 10 except for where his knees are. Okay. So this is the one that really I was like, wait, what is happening? Onyx Storm. I actually was... This is titled... You might need to draw this one because I was confused by this. Her knees went where and his went... This is in two sections. This is in two sections because there's two moments. Oh my God. There is...

Yes. There's a wonderful oral sexing, as usual. There's Zayden's signature move, which is going down on her. Yes. And then there's what happens next. There's a reason that we all love Zayden. And it's, there are many, but that's one of them. So yeah, that was pretty easy to understand. This also involves a chair, though. He lifts one of my knees to the top. Okay, so he's sitting in a chair. Yes. He's in the armchair. Already sitting there. And I have to imagine the arms of this chair are rather...

This was the Instagram reel I saw. So it was like... I mean, I would do it if we had a chair. I would. If we had a chair that I thought could support it. A more stable chair. Perhaps, thankfully and wonderfully, we don't. Yeah, so he's like lifting her knees up to the arms of the chair. Yeah. And she is facing him. And...

He just goes to town. Yeah, so what's the height of the arms of the chair so that when she's kneeling on it... Okay, let me do this one first before we get to the second portion. He lifts one of my knees to the top of the padded... Can't believe I have to draw another chair. That's the real problem. It's the furniture. It's the armoire and the chairs. Okay, so... He lifts one of my knees to the top of the padded chair arm and then the other. Okay, so one knee on each, straddling him, right? And stares up at me with a wicked smirk as his hands slide to my ass. Grab hold, love.

Before I can ask where. Yeah. Shadows, the aforementioned shadow tentacles. Shadows tug my hands to the top of the upholstered chair back and hold them there. Chair back. What are you? Worshiping. Worshiping. He lifts my ass and brings my hips straight to his mouth. I've already really gravely erred in how I'm. This is just. I've like drawn a lollipop or a flower.

You might have to get in on this one. I want to once again emphasize that this was your idea. Okay. And then. I don't think you can really see, but can you kind of see what I'm going over here? Yeah. Yeah. That's what I was trying to do. Yeah. That kind of looks like Vecna. That's pretty good. Okay. It's not terrible, but the point is I think that the arms of the chair are a bit high. Yeah. I've decided to skip the chair.

And just have her splay in the, oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But the back of the chair is very high. That's where her hands are shadow bound. The chair would be like, I don't. Yeah, sure. Okay.

Step two. Okay. Yeah, this is where this was all very clear to me and frankly quite exciting. It's great. So it did seem kind of, I think there's a lot of stuff about, and we're now skipping ahead a little bit. There's a lot of like stuff about quivering thighs and it's like from the pleasure, but also it, in of shadows or not, didn't seem like the most comfortable position.

Yeah, he could have supported her a bit more. He's holding her in the shadows, holding her in the top, but like the knees on the armrest. I don't know. Still, it does say a padded chair. That's true.

That's true. I'm being thoughtful about Violet's knees. You're a very thoughtful person. They're often wrapped. Oh yeah, they are. Okay, but this is where I was like, I need help. After the shattering and the unraveling and the seeing of stars, Zayden slips out from under her. So she's still shadow bound to the chair. I believe saying that she's so slick he'll be able to slide right in. Yeah.

So she's facing, still facing the chair back, knees still on the arms of the chair. Okay. Okay? Yeah. And he gets up for a minute. He slides out from underneath her. Very confusing. Why? Because how big is the chair? That's my son. How high are the arms on the chair? I think it's huge. I think they have to be like, I think it has to be a chair that's like,

The arms are up here. So he slides out front or is he there? Yeah, I guess he's like, you know, going under like a slip and slide there based on what they just did. Okay.

Okay. He slides out from underneath her. Yeah, he's... And then... He goes over, he does a thing, comes back. He draws my right knee down to the seat. Okay, so her knees were both on the arm, so... So she's still facing the back. She's still facing the back, so one of her... He's behind her. One of her knees goes down to the seat. Which, yeah, okay. The right knee. Yeah, and then the other knee is still up. And then he puts his left knee on the seat. Yeah. So her right knee is on the seat, his left knee is on the seat, right? Yes. He draws my right knee down to the seat, and the chair creaks as he sets his left behind me. Yeah. Yeah.

Give me your mouth. I look back over my shoulder and he curls over me, kissing me hard and deep. He slides the head of his cock into position, then lifts his mouth from mine.

Last chance to change your mind. Never going to happen. I bet. I look into his eyes. Fuck me. Make love to me. Take me. I don't care what you call it as long as you get inside me right now. Need isn't a strong enough word for the way I'm feeling, how desperate I am to hold all of him. Okay. So. So basically she's still bound to the chair facing behind like and he's behind her. Yes. Yes.

And there's specific commentary on the angle a little bit later in the passage. Thank you. Oh, Mallory, thank you. Fuck, you feel like home. We both cry out when he pushes all the way in. Yeah. I'm like using this like I'm telestrating or something. The pressure, the stretch, the depth. He's hitting at this angle are all sublimely perfect. The angle is really key here. Yeah. Okay.

I stop tugging at the shadows of my wrists and grip the back of the chair so I can rock into his next thrust. She loves this. She loves to grip an armoire or the back of the chair so she can have some agency inside of this. Again, it really all depends on how high the arms are on the side of this chair. Yeah, I feel like here's my problem with visualizing this. Maybe I just haven't seen enough furniture. But...

Violet is so tiny. I'm trying to imagine how the chair is big enough for Zayden to just slide out. Yeah. But small enough that now that one of her knees is on the seat instead of the arm, she can still reach the top.

And be at this angle. Yeah. But, like, she's a person, not, like, a beanie baby. So I don't know why I'm making it sound like it's fucking impossible. All right. Time to sketch. Molly Rubin. Let's see. Maybe I haven't seen enough furniture. Oh, my God. Okay. Let's see. So this is... How am I going to possibly, with my stick figures, do the knees and stuff? This is really... You almost need to do this in layers. Um...

Okay. Arms are still out. Ponytail. Ponytail. So left knee, left leg is up. Right leg is down. Yeah. See you then. I don't, I'm not sure I'm capturing the, boy, Joe, we might need your expertise again here. I just sort of drew them standing up, but I didn't draw the chair yet. This is not what I had in mind when you were like, I'm going to draw this. Well, I wanted,

you to draw this one for me so I would understand the angles of the knees. Here. Here, here, get out this thing. You're gonna have to stall. Read more smut while I do this. Should I read this entire passage or should I go back to the... Do whatever moves you. Yeah, I'll read this one because this is the way we can really understand what's happening here. All right. He sends me right over the edge. Lightning crashes.

Illuminating the room and thunder immediately follows as I break into uncountable fragments shattered by the waves of bliss that come and come and come instead of letting up. That's...

Where is... Okay. Yeah. Yes. So these are the arms of the chair. The only thing we need is his leg on the... It is. Where? Hold on.

Yeah. Zayden slides two fingers inside me and moves in time with his tongue. This is his knee. Okay. Wait. Yeah. Okay. And that's the... That's her knee. Seat of the chair. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's her other knee. And that's his other knee. And that's just on... What are the things below that? One leg of his? Yeah, it's just one. Right. But it was... Because his third leg is inside of Violet at this point, so... Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

This is preposterous. No one is proportioned this way. But he's so tall and she's so tiny. My favorite... Oh, my God. Inside of this whole romantic... I'm sorry. Did I interrupt you? Do you want to finish what you were saying? No, I'm thrilled. Inside of this whole romantic situation that we find ourselves in, there's some great... The memes are really good. And the way that some people break down the tropes of these, my favorite one, the one that Diana and I talk about all the time, is she's like,

I'm just a wee fragile 16 year old and he is an ageless immortal being, but I am his soulmate and blah, blah, blah. I climax to save my family. I climax to save my family. We say that all the time. I climax to save my family. Great stuff.

Remarkable. Oh, my God. Thank you for that. Okay, great. Thank you for that. It felt great. Do you want to draw? Should we draw some Reese wings or no? You're good. I'm good. I think we did it. Please edit that down to something that works. Okay. Last but not least, we're just going to zoom through this because it's Valentine's Day and our team would like to spend it with their loved ones. All right.

Onyx Storm Theory slash question slash spoiler corner. Boy, okay. Fresh off finishing this, so I've thought about nothing beyond how I draw these scenes. We're just going to keep this tight, as they would say. I mean, that's how they like it. Becca wants to know, how did you react to Violet and Andarna's bond severing? Sad. Painful. Becca thought of you a lot, many times during those chapters. Thank you, Becca.

I would feel more torn up about it if Andarna didn't quickly return. Yeah, so I did not love the return. One of my theories from the beginning of the book... I wouldn't mind if she returned in the next book. Yeah, it was very soon. She was definitely going to come back, but like in mere chapters. Yeah. So one of my theories was that part of what... And this is everybody who read it had this... I shouldn't even call it a theory. One of my assumptions was that because Violet was the only person who had bonded two dragons, she had...

a protection that nobody else has. Right? And so I have been, I had been waiting for Taryn to die and then Andarna to be the dragon. And I think that's still going to happen. Yeah, I think of it, but I was not, I actually was not expecting that Andarna would be the, in any capacity, like the lost bond first. Yeah. Um,

Do you think it was important for us to experience the loss of Andarna and like Violet's subsequent depression to understand what it, I mean, obviously usually inside the rules of this world, when a dragon dies, you die. Yes. But if you die, the dragon doesn't necessarily die. Correct. Yeah.

But the loss of like who you are and blah, blah, blah. So that when Zayden makes his decision later to save Seagal, his dragon, Seagal, his dragon, we've already had that experience of like what it feels like inside of Violet's head, inside of her life to like have that connection ripped away. I think it's, think of a few things. That for sure. I think like so much of Onyx Storm and the series to date

But Onyx Storm in particular, because of course, Iron Flame ends with us seeing the Red Rim around Zayden's eyes. I'm just thinking of so many filthy things to say. Everything I say, I just like, focus, Ruben! So much of Onyx Storm. I would say too much of Onyx Storm is...

Zayden and Violet just telling each other that they're the most important thing in the world and having not because I don't

that aspect of their relationship, but because it's the same conversation over and over again. Well, what I do like about that is that, like, where our assumption, I was like, how boring is it going to be if he turns to save Violet? Yeah. And the fact that he turns to save his dragon at the end. Yeah. I thought it was a good... Yes. Agreed. For sure. I think also just with, like, for Violet's portion of that, because then Zayden has that other...

bond that is paramount, right? And for Violet, it's like so much of the book is that Zayden is the most important thing and she won't accept that he's lost. Like, she will find the cure. She's going to go around the world to find the cure. I can fix him. She can fix him. And he's like, you can't. All we can do is hope to solve the progression. But the pain that she feels when Andarna leaves is a different level of despair from anything that she experienced

has even contemplated when thinking about what might await with Zayden. So it was also important, I thought, for us and for Violet to remember that she has other relationships and bonds that matter that much too. And I, we had, you and I had talked. An extension of herself. You and I had talked mere minutes ago when you were finishing the book.

And you were like trying to make our deadline for this pod and you were like, what are these other chapters? Because we get a re-chapter and an image in chapter at the end of the book inside of this protracted battle situation. The re-chapter doesn't have like a ton of other than like action, a ton of plot relevance. But the idea is...

Violet's like, I'm not the most, I'm not the only one who can fight. I'm not the most important. I'm not the best. She is. And then we see Rhiannon like lead the squad, et cetera, et cetera. So this idea of like, what are the various connections or bonds that exist outside of Violet and Zayden or... Sorry, I just can't do it. It's okay.

Okay. Yes. Yes. What are your thoughts on the theory that the Irid's, which is Indarna's breed of dragon, get their magic from the sky rather than the ground? And this one's based on the idea that like Violet still had connections when they were out on the islands where there was no, none of the other dragons and riders had connections. Yeah.

She could wield. They couldn't. So what's this idea that like those dragons get their power from the sky? Yeah, I think that's really interesting. And I like to the kind of base assumption as well. The reason that something is happening differently for Violet is just because she has two bonds. Right. But it's maybe not just that. It's specifically the nature of Andarna's magic. Yeah.

And obviously the Ereds, in addition to their camouflage and the changing nature of their scales, they're radically distinct in terms of their philosophies, right? They're pacifists. They're appalled by what they confront when our intrepid squad finds them and hunts them down at last. And so the idea that the root of their magic is actually distinct is

Would be really interesting and cool. I would be into that. This is my favorite theory. Okay. Violet's magic works past Arisha in places where there is little to no magic. We know that Andarna feels fine while the other dragons are in pain without their access to magic. We know that the Ereds live without, quote, normal magic and are fine. Violet mentions to Taryn that she feels magic in the air around when he says there's actually less magic.

So what if part of why Aeorids are so special is because they draw magic from the sky, the air around them, and not the physical ground, earth, like other dragons. We know magic likes to balance, so earth versus air magic. Okay. So all of that is true. But there's this other theory I read that I really like. They mention Violet's eye color several times in the books and how they're, like, shifting. Yeah. Like, she's hazel, but they meant, you know, I have hazel eyes and no one's ever like, oh, my God, the amber. Oh, my God, the green. Oh, my God, the this when you come. Like, blah, blah, blah. Okay. So, like, um...

So there's this, like, fun theory that... Until they hear this podcast. There's this fun theory that Violet has chameleon powers because we think her second signet from Andarna is dreamwalking. Yeah. But probably not just that. And so what if...

her powers are whatever she needs them to be in that given time. The other Ereds were very pissed that Andarna had sort of given her the power that she had given her. And dreamwalking is a big thing to begin with. Yes. But, like, what if, like, the way that the Ereds can change, can chameleonically change themselves to match the backgrounds, her powers can change themselves to be what she needs them to be. And if...

The way that her eyes change color, not to the ring of red, but other colors, is that related to this idea of, like, the changing nature of the magic? Or another theory is that her second signet is she can just...

wield magic. Like, has power over all of magic. That almost makes her seem too special to me. Too Empyrean Jesus and I... I do like that she's bad at runes. It's the one thing she's bad at, but I do like that. Yeah, it's interesting because one of my... I've never...

thought that lightning wielding was as impressive as it's presented to be in the book. Once in hundreds of years. Yeah, I'm like, okay, she's Thor. Yeah. Okay. Cool. And then, you know, similarly found it very odd that the reveal on the... She's a firebender. Theophane... Theophany. Theophany? Yeah. Theophany front was...

Actually, she's not the balance to me on the lightning wielding front. She's the balance to my mom making weather. I'm like, wait, if that's supposed to be scarier in this moment, then it would mean Violet's mother was more powerful than her. But that was not the case. That stuff's just like kind of messy in the story. But the reason I mention that is because when we learned that the rebellion relics come with a second signet. Yeah.

To me, this means Violet, yes, has to be hiding something still. Something is not manifested or something is not understood in full because otherwise Violet having to like, yeah, okay, they're pretty good. They're supposed to be the best, but like, they're like, okay. Signets, one of which nobody can know about because being an intrinsic is a death sentence in the world. And,

all of the kids with rebellion relics also have a second signet. Yeah. That actually would be the opposite of being able to do all magic. It would be like too level. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Too much of a level setting. So I like... The chameleon thing I really like a lot. Did you think after reading Iron Flame... This was one of the things that my pals and I discussed a lot and theorized a lot about in book club. Because...

We had finished reading it a couple weeks after it had come out, so Rebecca Yarris had done a bunch of interviews already, and she had that kind of mischievous tease about how we had already seen Violet's second signet in the second book. We just didn't know that we had seen it. And so I felt sure that it was some intrinsic thing, specifically actually because of the throne sex scene where we have that... She is suddenly in Zayden's mind, but my pal Allison...

was like she can talk to dead people because of the liam scene and i was like oh yeah you're right that's gonna be it because so much of the story has hinged around her needing knowledge from her dad yeah and so i'm like this has got to be it but then in the third when as soon as we got to the journals in the third book i'm like oh maybe that's just how she gets the knowledge from her dad though of course now she has more stuff to ask daryl dad because she found out that he uh

Took her to the Temple of Dune and dedicated her, which is tough stuff. Not great. Not great for Margaia Asher. Not his best dad move. I feel like there's so many little moments like that. It supports the theory that it's more than one power. That she can do all kinds of things. I like it. Autumn, this is the main thing that people are theorizing. The book ends with a new brother, a new Venon. Yeah. And she is very messy, but very specifically, Rebecca Yarrow's is not, we're supposed to guess who this is.

So who is the quote? Autumn asks, who is the quote brother with Zayden at the end? She thinks, Autumn thinks it's Riddick. Most people assume Garrick or Bodhi. Here's what we know. The new brother is someone who has seen Zayden struggle with being a veteran for five months. Yeah, so someone who knew. Yeah. Um...

If it's not Garrick. Yeah. Oh, and Rebecca Yarrow said in an interview, pay attention to who's missing at the end of the book. Right. So if it's not Garrick who is missing at the end of the book. Right. Garrick's missing. Why do we have that image in chapter? But that would, that would like, if we play out the string on that, that would eliminate the Brennan theory. Because Brennan is there at the end. Yes-ish. Yeah. I want to go back to that. Okay.

Is it Bodhi? I think it's Bodhi. Right. Because of the engagement, right? Because of the engagement. So if Bodhi has turned... Because of the marriage. Yes. She's now the duchess, right? Right. If Bodhi has... Bodhi was set up as the heir. Exactly. So now he needs a new heir. Right. You turned Ven in. I told you for the last 40% of the book that I needed you to stay safe. I'm going to be... I can't stop this. I can only hope to delay it. You have to rule in my stead once I am completely lost. Right.

And Bodhi is like, I don't want to do that. I'm a writer. Let me go out and fight. And it feels like if there was no... I mean, the consort stuff out on the road, et cetera, obviously Zayden's like, I would love to spend our lives together. But the exact nature of how that unfolded with...

It's either Bodhi or it's a clear misdirect to make us think it's Bodhi. Yeah. Because like. There's no other reason for him to like. Yeah. He needs. Yeah. If Bodhi's Venom, he needs Violet to roll. Yeah. That feels like it has to be it. But yeah, I guess it could be. I was wondering if it was Dane and then Dane is like mentioned two paragraphs later. Right. So.

Brennan is there. Yes. So even though Brennan is one of the three main candidates that people are theorizing about, it's not a great fit. But here's my main Brennan thing that I want to talk about. Brennan, who I've always been suspicious of, mostly because like he comes back from the dead. Yeah. The only person we know who came back from the dead was Jack Barlow. Right. Mm hmm.

Nowlin, who was Taryn's rider beforehand, and it is implied that Brennan and Nowlin were like a thing. Yep. And he's the one who resurrected Brennan. But...

There's a rune mark on Brennan's hand. This was weird, yeah. And when Sloane was transferring the power between Dane and Brennan, because a lot of people have noticed this, there's no rune mark. Right. And Violet had to assume, and I hate that Violet does this because she's so smart, but sometimes she's like, oh, clearly it's that and doesn't ask any questions. Yeah. She assumed the rune mark on Brennan's hand was because of the time that Naelan channeled power to bring him back to life. But what if instead...

I know I'm mispronouncing now and I can't quite say his name. But instead, he turned Venom to bring Brennan back to life. And that is why Taron does not want to talk about the one who came before. They don't talk about his death. It's why he hates...

That Zayden is Venom so much and all that sort of stuff like that. So like, what if Nailen, who was Taryn's previous writer and Brennan's boyfriend and brought him back to life, is the sage or is one of the like major Venom on the other side of this conflict? Well, it feels like we're building toward, I love it. It's felt since the first mention of what happened with him and Brennan that they, it was part of why Brennan's return at the end of the first book was,

while fun and exciting, not very surprising. Not, thank you. Very telegraphed. Yes. But similarly, it has felt like, okay, that he's coming back to in some form. Like, that will be significant in some way. The... Also, Brennan has amber eyes. Yeah. In the Sloane-Brennan-Dane sequence, that, like,

Part of why I was on Dane watch at the end was because of the mention of like the more power than he's supposed to have, which was also very, very worrying, just extremely troubling. But so I'll call her Theo. It's like Stephanie. It's like Persephone. Theophany. Theophany.

It's, you know, she's like just the big bad in this book. And like, it's very clear, especially in the final conflict, that there are larger threats waiting. Well, there's the sage. Yeah, well, right. The sage, David's maven. I feel like there's a big bad above all of them. I feel like, yes, exactly. And so the final boss, I think, just has to be someone powerful.

We know. I like the idea that it's now because the Wyvern are new. And so this idea that like he brought this knowledge of like how to make the Wyvern to the Venon is a possibility. I like all of these theories. So do you think Brennan knows this? Yeah, I think he's compromised. I think I've always suspected that he's compromised in some way or another, especially because he's

In the journals, her dad is like, trust only Mira. Only Mira. I'm like, Brennan, I don't trust you. Right. And there is the like, well, did he just because he assumed his son was dead at that point? Possibly. Yes. But I think also, you know, Violet is so afraid for so long of people finding out about Zayden. And obviously, like, just like when a superhero identity is revealed, suddenly so many people know, right? Very quickly. But Brennan...

I would say is the only one. Now, we don't see the moment where he finds out. We just learn from Violet that he knows, through Violet that he knows and has been helping Zayden. But he seems pretty chill and eager to help. Yep. So, yeah. In the way that someone would be eager to cure another Venom. And then also Zayden says he knows of one other Venom who hates his master. Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Autumn also asked, do you think book four will see Zayden and Violet apart from most of the book? Praying to the God of War, I'm wrong. Yes, I do. But I also know that Violet can dreamwalk. And so presumably she can dreamfuck. What do you think? Dreamfucking for all of book four of this series? One of my...

long-standing points of consternation is that there's not nearly enough masturbation in the series. Just not even close. Because, and there are some references in both series. Some references. And there's even the moment where like in one of the sex scenes in Onyx Storm when Violet's like, you know, don't keep me waiting any longer. And

If you do, I'm just going to like touch myself and make you watch. And he's like, we should have done that earlier. It's like, yeah, like you didn't feel you could touch each other. Why were you not? You share a mental bond. Yeah. Constantly just masturbate. I don't understand. This is like baffling to me. Again, a couple mentions and illusions, but I just feel like it should be every three pages. They went said these sex addicted, crazy kids who can't get enough of each other went 70 plus days without having sex.

I just think every third paragraph should have been about masturbation. I do. So dream masturbation in a book floor. I love it. Dream masturbation. And, you know, Eric probably already knows about it. This is the last thing because it is so up your alley. Becca wants to know, Eric's signet, which was manifest, like we figured out at the very end of this book. He's a precog. She says, the fact that she said precog was like...

Okay, my number report. In the grand scheme of autonomy slash interference slash changing timelines, there are a lot of ways to go about it. What do you think serves the story the best with Eric being a precog? For him to not have had this power. Yes. I'm so upset about this. He's going to have to be in a coma, I think, or something. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I...

No. This is a bad move. Yeah. I just, yeah, I'm kind of bummed about that. I like Eric, actually. I think he's an interesting character. Oh, I like Eric a lot. Yeah, and that whole family dynamic with Holden has been really fun, but we simply can't have the ability to

see the future and then go back and help people and give them crucial information that comes into play in the final battle that just can't be a thing all the like little asterisks on things like Melgrin can see the outcome of any battle unless there are three marks you know three or more marks together or something like that it's just like okay oh this book is crazy okay that

That has been mostly most of what we wanted to do here in Theory Corner. Thank you so much for all of your emails, all of your questions, comments, or concerns. Thanks to Mallory for her art, her tremendous art. Thank you to you for your art. It was really educational.

Happy to help. I loved geometry in high school. Oh, God. Thank you, of course, to Steve Allman, John Richter, Arjuna Rengapal, Jomie and Dineron for dealing with all of this that we have presented them. Thank you and sorry. Yeah, thanks and sorry. And Rex, who we just met today. Rex, so great to meet you. So nice to meet you, Rex. What a first day together. Thanks for being here today. We'll be back next week for Yellow Jackets and Captain America. Yes.

Happy Valentine's Day to everyone. Happy Valentine's Day, my darling. Happy Valentine's Day to you. Bye. Bye. Bye.