'Skeleton Crew' Episodes 7-8 Deep Dive
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It's on Prime. Visit Amazon.com slash Prime to get more out of whatever you're into. The barrier was supposed to protect you from this. It was supposed to keep you safe from the galaxy. And now we have to do something. Yeah, the galaxy is scary and dangerous everywhere we went. Even the worst places. People that can help us. You have to trust me. Okay, so what's the plan?

Hello! Welcome back to House of R. It's been a minute. I'm Joanna Robinson. Joining me today, safe and sound from Los Angeles, California, it is Mallory Rubin. Mallory, beloved, it is so nice to see your face. You too, my darling. I missed you terribly. I am wondering, did you bring the crystal of the founders? Yeah, I'll show it to you when you need to see it. When you most need to see it, then it shall appear.

We want to thank all of you. First of all, of course, we're thinking of all of the bad babies, all of our listeners who are in the Los Angeles area and have been impacted by the fires.

And also thank you to everyone who wrote in with their well wishes and their concerns and stuff like that. It's been a horrible time for our friends and colleagues in Los Angeles. And we feel very lucky to be able to record this episode today. But thank you. And we're thinking of you as well. And Mallory, I'm so happy to see you. Makes me really happy. Same. Love you. Love the bad babies. Thinking of everyone.

What are we doing today? We are wrapping up Skeleton Crew. We didn't get a chance to do episode seven because of the aforementioned fires. So we are smuggling seven into our coverage of the finale. Mostly, though, we're going to be focusing on the finale because like a lot of seven was set up for the finale. It would be silly to like sort of linger on sort of what what could this mean when we already know what it means.

So we'll be like zipping through episode seven and largely giving our finale reactions and sort of our larger season long reactions to the experience that was Skeleton Crew. So that's what we're doing here today. What are we doing in the future on this feed and other feeds? So glad you asked. I'm happy to tell you. The Midnight Boys, pew pew! They have their Skeleton Crew reaction for you to listen to. But also...

Van's obsession with the film Wicked has now infected, I believe, the Midnight Boys. And so they will, this is the beauty of Van. His passions become your passions. And that is just his gift. So his gift to you all here in 2025 is a Wicked check-in from the Midnight Boys. Can't wait. Yeah.

The Mint Edition crew are doing confidence meter pods, both TV and film editions. That's something to check out, sort of a look ahead of 2025. The Button Mash crew are checking in on Switch.com.

Switch 2 news. This pod is already up. My husband, Adam, has already listened to it. He was talking about the pod last night. It's big news in the gaming realm. Switch the Squeakquel is available to you on the Bud Mash feed, over on the Ring of Earths feed. And then what about us? Who's with us? This podcast. We have so much coming up for you guys. It's a weird couple of weeks here at the beginning of the year in terms of content. We will be locking in...

to week-by-week coverage of a show starting somewhere in February. But until then, we've got the Hype Draft, which is our look ahead at 2025. We're putting together some recommendations for you all based on some of the things we loved last year. There's an arbitrary-ish anniversary of Ex Machina, which is all the excuse we need to talk about

Alicia Vikander as, you know, a deadly robot you might want. If you've never seen Ex Machina, by the way. Now's the time. You should watch it. And then we're going to talk about it. House of Rewinds. Get ready, folks. Oh, I love that. I've always wanted that to be a thing. Listen, Mailbag.

We got a winter mailbag coming. Well, I love the seasonal mailbag. You know, send us a question, comments or concern. We heard you. We heard your cries. We heard your requests. We will be checking in on the recent romanticism

smut book boom is our Valentine's plan for you. I genuinely can't wait. Am I recording disaster by telling you about so many of our plans in advance? Surely. And here's the... At least half of these will happen. Concrete proof. We have finally put the Paul of Fame podcast on the schedule. It is in the fucking Google Doc, folks. It's in a color-coded spreadsheet. It says Paul of Fame on a calendar that we are all looking at. All of us. Um...

So, in honor of the great David Lynch, we will be talking about Paul Atreides soon, in mere weeks from now. Unless we don't, but probably we will. Closer to the Oscars than the one-year anniversary of the film than, like, next week, to be clear. But it's in the planning range now. And, you know...

There's a chance, a very real chance that we're going to have the pleasure of recording this pod that we have waited a year to record in person. In person. And I can't fucking wait. Did you already order your still suit or is it? I thought Steve committed yesterday on the planning call to procuring sand. Sand. Still suits. Yes. Spice. Anything else we might need.

That was what I understood. Will Shia LaBeouf make a guest appearance? Tune in to find out. Get your thumpers ready. Okay. And then also, just one little side personal thing I want to say that over on the Prestige TV feed, Rob Mahoney and I are covering Severance week to week. So if you're like, hey, Severance seems like

a ringer verse show. Sure. And Mallory and I and Van and I did some coverage of it around the prestige feed in season one, three years ago, but Rob and I are going to keep doing it week to week over the prestige feed. If you've got theories, if you've got thoughts, if you want to, Rob and, and our producer, Kai Grady and I are currently obsessed with this Christopher Walken interview that came out in advance of season two, where,

Billy Bush, an absolute embarrassment of a journalist, is interviewing him. And he's like, the interview starts like this. He goes, birving, as in the like ship couple of Bert and Irving. And so Billy Bush goes, birving. Everybody's talking about it. Everybody's talking about birving. It's just not something I've ever seen anyone. Birving. Okay.

Okay. And B, I am wildly sure that someone wrote this down for Billy Bush and he has no idea what he's saying. Anyway, it's just like a masterpiece. It's on YouTube and Prisra Walken gets to react to that. So please enjoy that. But Berving, your Berving thoughts will be over on the Press News TV talking about Severance. Okay. That's a lot. I just threw a lot at the wall, Mallory, including a Paul of Fame promise-ish. Yeah.

How are folks going to keep track of all of that content coming from us? It's easy. Here's what you do. You follow the pod. Follow House of R. Wish I thought of that. Follow the Ringiverse. Follow the Prestige TV podcast. Follow Trial by Content. Follow them all on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. And also be sure to follow, subscribe to the Ringiverse YouTube channel because you can watch full video episodes.

of House of R and the Midnight Boys, pew, pew, on Spotify and that YouTube channel. While you're at it, you can follow The Ringerverse on the social media platform of your choosing. Currently, that involves Instagram, Twitter, TikTok. What is happening with TikTok? So we'll see. But right now, that's where you can find us. And as Joe mentioned, for the seasonal mailbag and for anything,

The inbox is always open. Hobbitsanddragons at gmail.com. Join it back to you in the studio for the spoiler warning. Thank you. Spoiler warning. What are we covering today? All of Star Wars. You heard it here first. Yep. All of Star Wars. So we're covering up through episode eight of Skeleton Crew, which is the end of season one of Skeleton Crew. Is it the end of Skeleton Crew? We don't know. We're going to talk about that in a second. Hope not. All of the current Skeleton Crew episodes are...

are on the table. And then also all of Star Wars ever, also on the table. So that is what we're doing today. Let's go now to our opening snapshot. People on the video are enjoying Mallory's slap ball dance that she's been doing and hopefully will continue to do all episode. I'm not ready for Neil to be out of my life. I'll just say that.

We're here to talk about episode seven. We're going to be in so much trouble written by Christopher Ford and John Watts directed by Lee Isaac Chung of Mandalorian twisters, Minari beef fame. Uh, and then also the real good guys written by Christopher Ford, John Watts directed by John Watts, uh,

Both fairly substantial episodes, 37 minutes, 41 minutes. And we're going to start with some sort of big picture thoughts. Mallory, you and I haven't much discussed these episodes. Quick opening thoughts on episodes seven and eight.

Yeah, I'll kind of weave my thoughts on the season as a whole into this, too, because it's connected. I loved, loved, loved Episode 7. Loved. I'm so sad. I think it is appropriate to keep the Episode 7 discussion very minimal today for the reasons that you outlined. But I thought it was just sensational. I had so much fun watching it. It is...

as confident as I've been heading into a finale that a show was going to just be consistently good start to finish in a while. And I thought it was great.

I had a lot of Jod morning to work through, and we'll do that today. I can't wait to talk about our guy Jod together. We've gathered here today. Boy, have we. Boy, have we. I really enjoyed the finale. It was not my favorite episode of the season. It actually might have been my least favorite episode of the season, just in terms of on its own, what happened inside of it.

But I thought it was actually like a great conclusion to the season and that overall the season was incredibly well-paced, well-balanced, well-planned, and well-executed. And I thought the finale, to be clear, was like quite charming and it did have some emotional wallops in it that like really, really got me. So I'm very much looking forward to talking about it today. It's more than I thought some of the other episodes were just like extraordinarily good. On balance, I thought the show was awesome. And...

It ended in a way where it feels like a complete story that can just exist, and it didn't feel the compulsion that so often, especially in the streaming era of rapidly expanding connected universes, many of the shows that we cover feel to put

put a character who you're like, is this person going to show up there at the end? Or explicitly draw a tie. It's like there's a lot of tantalizing possibility for how the characters in Skeleton Crew could be deployed elsewhere in the Star Wars universe. What that massive heap in thousand plus volts of batteries might be used for, who might get their hands into them. And...

None of that came at the expense of this season of TV feeling like this perfect little moment in time with this group of characters and this little hidden spot in the galaxy. I loved it. I thought it was so charming and so winning. I thought the performances were great. Jude Law's Jod is an all-timer to me, like genuinely an all-timer. And I will actually be sincerely crushed if we don't get to spend more time with him elsewhere in Star Wars. And I feel the same way about the kids. Like,

If we never heard whether Wim's look up at the X-Wings led to him eventually being a Starbrother, I'd be devastated. I'm getting emotional. I just really found myself connected to the characters. I really loved it. I don't know. I don't know what's wrong with me. It's been a very intense week at X. I'm sorry. It's been a week, yeah. I've been incredibly stressed out and on edge, so...

I just missed getting to talk about it with you and I'm glad to be here. Oh my God. I'm so, I love you so much. It's funny listening to you talk. I was realizing something.

And I've said this before on the pod that, like, your love of something often makes me love it more. Just, like, hearing how much you care about something makes me care about it more. And that's not always the case. Like, I would say with Landman, maybe that's not the case. But, like... My powers have met their end. You have your limits. But...

But I remember being, like, sort of okay on the first couple episodes of Skeleton Crew. We talked about this at the beginning. And then, like, once... Because I watched them before you and I started talking about the show. I had watched the screeners for the first three episodes. And so then all of a sudden, the show got so much better for me because I think because I was sharing it with you. And I think watching episodes seven and eight without talking to you about them, I was just sort of like... The show felt like it fizzled a little for me. Or potentially...

The highs of Six were just so high for me. Yeah. And no matter what, I think Six is the best episode for me by far of the season. Like, I just thought Six was extraordinary. Bryce's episode...

Seven felt like it was setting up a lot of stuff for eight. And then eight, if I'm being really honest to you, and I'm so open to being convinced otherwise, I'm just a little disappointed by the finale. Not by the standards of Disney Plus finales that have been like honest disappointments. Oh, yeah. This is just sort of like...

I feel like they didn't push it just one extra step beyond sort of some of the things that we had just been expecting, you know? Yeah. And, um, absolutely. I, you know, there, there are things that happened that I really enjoyed and really liked watching. And I do think that Jude Law is giving like an all timer, like the Jod stuff is,

is extremely good throughout. And so that's just without question for me. We end with a silent look from him. And he just infuses it with so much meaning that even the showrunners in an interview we'll talk about were just sort of like, this could mean a million

a million things. We're not quite sure, which is so exciting. So there's a lot to love. It certainly didn't feel sort of out of control or like we didn't get to everything we needed to get to or any of that other stuff that has happened to some of the shows we've covered in the past. So it all feels like sort of tidily concluded. I just didn't feel like my mind was blown by anything. And I don't even mean that in like a twist way.

or surprise or we figured this out or that sort of thing. I just sort of mean like a character move or, or a revelation. And again, I'm really open to having my mind changed by you as it often is. Um,

The season two question. Yeah. I read a Forbes piece from Paul Tassi. Paul does a good job always of reading sort of the tea leaves. That was fairly like doomy and gloomy for the future of Skeleton Crew. Yeah. But Watts and Ford, whether it's a tactic or not, seem much more optimistic about it, about the possibility for it, or at least they're like trying to manifest this into the world. And John Watts said in an interview that,

We wanted to make sure the season had a satisfying beginning, middle, and end. But if people want to see more skeleton crew, we'd be happy to make more. It's exciting to think about. We've been mainly focused on telling this story, but there's always a chance that they, the kids, could meet some surprising people in the future. And so...

I think that just echoes back, you know, in, in these various interviews they give into, you know, our, some of our favorite folks, Adam Barry at Variety, Dalton Ross at Entertainment Weekly, like, you know, all the, all the greats who cover these shows. Um,

Like, to your point, what could this mint now being exposed to the world do inside of the storytelling? What could these various characters, what could Jod and Pocket get up to across the galaxy? They didn't say it, but I extrapolated that we could enjoy that. But yeah, like, you know, what is Wim's future? You know, what is Fern's future? And...

You know, they were saying, like, we didn't need to pick it necessarily up directly after this episode ends. We don't want it to be like... Well, you and I were talking about this, how, like, we kind of wanted the kids to go home and, like, be home. Yes. We don't think there should be out-of-this-world wacky adventures coming to Ad Ad and at all times. Right. But, you know...

The sheer tonnage of money on that planet, the fact that people know about it now. Oh, yeah. That's, you know, that's could be in the mix if it needed to for the future. So I know you I know your answer. You want a season two. Do I want a season two? Like cautiously? Yes. If the ideas is good, then yes. Yeah, I do.

I'm having a... Maybe this will be a trend today. Again, perhaps an outsized proportion to how I actually felt about the finale specifically. I think it's much more about the show as a whole. Yeah. I'm feeling quite deflated about the narrative around Skeleton Crew. Not in terms of people's reception to it quality-wise, but actually that's what I mean. The fact that it seems...

Somewhere between possible to probable that it won't get to continue on, even if there is a great story, because not enough people watched it. It's such an indictment to me of where we are in this IP era. And this is just another version of like...

what's literally happening in the show with the greed and the churn and the quest for the dadderies. It's like, this is one of the best Star Wars things in a while. And the people who watched it

pretty widely across the board loved it. And I think like, I actually understand, I would love for more people who didn't give it a try to check it out. I hope that that happens. And I think that part of what's cool about the streaming era is it's just there for you. Like you could at any point decide, maybe I'll check out Skeleton Crew today. If you missed the initial run, that's fine. But that's not necessarily the case from the mouse's perspective, right? And...

If a show, we've had a lot of middling Star Wars. Always. I don't want to make it sound like that's new. That's always been the case. I say that to somebody who loves Star Wars. But we've just had a lot more, at least, on-screen Star Wars lately. So the average is, yeah. Yeah, the volume is up overall. The volume of stuff that has been bad to eh is, like, up. There's been great stuff, too, that we've really obviously loved. And this is a show that met with strong podcasts

positive reactions from the critics and from the audience. And the creators have a clear grasp of their character set, their world, the themes that they're interested in exploring. Proven track records now inside of this show and elsewhere of making something quality. Yeah. If that's not enough to continue on, now I get it. Like, the show is expensive. It's expensive to make Star Wars. I'm not like an idiot. I understand that. But...

It becomes like a self-fulfilling prophecy. People increasingly, this is not unique to Star Wars. We talk about this a lot with Marvel, et cetera. I feel like there's so much of this I don't even know where I can opt in. This was actually something that you could opt into whether or not you had been, maybe that wasn't clear initially, but it became clear whether or not you had consumed every other ounce of Mandoverse cannon, you could enjoy Skeletor Crew. That's like quite refreshing.

There are, like we said already, ways that this could become part of a more connected tapestry, but it doesn't have to be. So there's something there to continue to mine or it could remain its own little thing. And that feels to me like if they don't get to keep doing that, it's not exactly a one-to-one, but it's another, in a way, broom boy to me. Where it's like, there are a lot of different things that fuel that, obviously, but...

We come back to this refrain so often. Like, Star Wars is really big. The galaxy is really big. And often it feels really small. And how many times have we and other people...

talked over the last few years about, like, we've got to move beyond the Skywalkers. And, like, this did that quite effectively. Don't we want to keep playing in that sandbox? Yeah. So on the Trial by Content podcast this week, the subject we were discussing were, like, franchises that deserve to die. And Dave and his, like, trolliest...

troll guys said Star Wars. Dave is the biggest Star Wars fan I know. So like, you know, whatever. But he said Star Wars and he gave us reasons why and my immediate response is absolutely not. Like, absolutely not. But the Skywalkers need to, like, we need to unclench from the Skywalkers. We've talked about this before. This has long been my stance. And so, yeah, I think something like

You know, we talk about Andor, which is concretely connected to the core trilogy and that it leads up to Rogue One, which leads into A New Hope. So there are sort of traces there, obviously, but the success of Andor...

critically and in the fandom but and or was also not a huge like ratings hit for them but the fact that they gave and or the green light for season two is the thing that has me most hopeful for this that this is a show to your point that people either like liked or loved but no one seems to have

really hated. I'm sure some people, I know some people, I know some people didn't like it, but like, um, and then also it seems to function and, um,

Chris Ward was talking about this a lot in his sort of post-mortem interviews, like how important it was for him to share the show with his kid. Like he keeps telling stories about watching this with his kids and like as a gateway to fostering Star Wars fandom in a new generation, this is a great story for that because I think adult, you know, adults like us, we are a form of adult. Adults like us...

Can enjoy this show. Of form. Of form-ish. Adult-ish people can enjoy this show. And then especially parents sharing it with their kids. You know, like, it doesn't have to be kid-y to be kid-friendly and to sort of pass the baton on. You could do this with, you know, the original trilogy. I watched that as a kid, too, obviously. But, like, for something that feels fresh and new...

as a way to sort of get new Star Wars fans excited, wouldn't we want that as well to be like, keep the story going and keep the story alive. So if we keep circling the drain of like digitally resurrecting, um,

The same characters we fell in love with in the 70s is just deeply grim to me and not the future I want for Star Wars. So I think you're a little higher in general in Skeleton Crew than I am, but you and I are on the exact same page in terms of like, this is precisely what we want Lucasfilm to be doing. So I would hope that they, you know, there are obviously...

The Acolyte got snuffed out and we were not as high on the Acolyte overall, but saw some potential in its future. But I am hopeful that there will be an exception made for this that is not just purely based on profits and losses, cold-hearted calculation, but just sort of in a larger... Occasionally those decisions get made. And or season two is like...

really should not exist by the cold, hard calculations of Hollywood. And what I would be really curious, and I have no way to access these numbers, and this is something about the streaming area that really frustrates me, is sort of the lack of transparency in numbers. But I'd be so curious about the Andor tale, the tale on Andor, and in terms of how many people over the last couple years...

checked in on Andor after hearing people talk about it. Every time Star Wars comes up and people talk about their frustrations, not every time, but a lot of people go, well, except for Andor. Oh, but Andor was great. And hearing that over and over again, I imagine got people tuning in to Andor. And so I'll be really curious to see what the Andor season two numbers are. And to your point, this is the larger landscape issue, right?

We used to live in a society. We used to live in a storytelling universe in Hollywood where things were allowed to grow. Things need to be allowed to grow. And so, you know, that's sort of where I am on all that. I hope the show gets its chance. I think also part of, I do have some questions of what a season two would be, certainly. But I think that I just am so confident in the Watts Ford team that, like, I feel like they wouldn't,

move forward if they didn't have an idea they actually believed that they could do well. So I think that's part of it, too, is just feeling confident that if there's an idea they're excited about pursuing, that they would be able to do so in a way that felt compelling and worthwhile for us to share with them. So I hope they get the chance. It seems like they want to get the chance, and I hope they do. I want that for them. And for Neil. And for us. And for Raddy. And for Raddy.

If we had done an episode seven deep dive, we would have spent 85% of it talking about, I can assure you, talking about the moment when Jod kind of scooched Ratty over with his foot and then Ratty just screamed at him for what he had done to SM33. That would have been the whole pod. Was that... Okay, we'll get back to that in a second. Okay. Something out of yada.

Next on Naughty Yotta Island. I knew I deserved so much more, so I left. I finally switched to Metro and got what I was looking for. Get one line for only $25 a month with AutoPay. Just bring your phone to Metro and experience all the data you want on the largest 5G network. That's Naughty Yotta Yotta, only at Metro by T-Mobile. First month is $30. Bring your number and ID. Offer not available if with T-Mobile or with Metro in the past 180 days.

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These are perfect. Everybody, Bondi. Visit hookah.com, H-O-K-A.com to learn more about the Bondi 9. So for Neil and all the other bubble bath enthusiasts out there, I invite you now to join us on our deep dive of the last two episodes of Skeleton Crew.

All right, so we are going to start with the parents, who obviously have a lot to do in the last two episodes. We're headed back to At-At and the parents are entering the adventure in a more concrete way. And here we see all the parents in the woods trying to send a beacon out. There are a few incredibly overt events.

ET reference moments, and this is certainly one of them. The parents phone from home to the kids, try to send the beacon out, despite being pursued by droids. And they play a little relay race with who can get the beacon out. What did you like about this sequence, Mallory Rubin? Some of my critiques for the finale actually connect to the parents, so I'll save those for when we get to the finale, but

found this delightful. Not only that they're breaking the rules, not only that they're acting surreptitiously, but that they're powerfully invoking what their kids did in episode one, huddled in the woods, engaging in illicit activities, hoping the authorities don't notice. I was like, what is a tree sucker? Chekhov's tree sucker for the finale? This is why we can't be going beat by beat through episode seven. Now that we've seen the finale, it just wouldn't make any sense. What will the tree sucker do? I will say,

I will say, when that stunner first hit Numa, I was like shocked, shocked. Appalled. And give me the strength to remain calm when we get to the part of the finale where we discuss Neil's hover bike being shot out from under him. Give me the strength. I couldn't believe it. No! Were you ever actually worried or it didn't matter? You were just in too much of an emotional state? You know what? I will say...

When the kids are watching KB's ship crash, obviously because it did not explode in flame, I knew she was okay and felt relieved. And I was like, great, we have another gift to pair with the Vader. No, one of her ferns, no. But when the ship was going down-

like a moment where I was like are they just one moment where they're I'm like are they gonna do are they gonna do this but I didn't really think the kids would would come to harm um and just of course prayed that John wouldn't they could have convinced me that one of the parents yeah might not have made it out of the finale but they never would have convinced me that one of the kids wasn't gonna make it out of this finale yeah they could have convinced me that John was gonna go out

Drowning in an ocean of golden daedrays. You know what I mean? Like that's, that's something that I could see happen. Way to go. Sort of.

ruined by his own greed, something like that. But the kids, they always seemed safe. SM33 seemed incredibly safe to me as well. Even after he was decapitated. Yeah. I was like, it's a droid. Again, a shocking moment in the history of television. Joe, when the parents were running through the woods, ladderling the communication device football to each other, were you like, damn, they're running the hook and ladder?

I wrote relay race down on my nose because that's all that was available to me, but glad to know. Yeah. Got real football vibes from this. Does the hook and ladder require...

They did have some forward passes in the mix that couldn't actually be. Yeah, I was going to ask. You have to lateral. You have to go back? Yeah, you have to lateral. Otherwise, it's a forward pass and then you can't keep advancing. You're not laterally. But yeah, so they didn't actually abide by strict football rules. But still, the overall movement and spirit of the play, it felt like we were watching a wonderful bit of trickery. Which of the parents would do the best in the Combine?

And if you're listening at home, I don't mean the farming equipment. I think they would all excel at different drills, probably. I mean, Farrah got the beacon. She got the communicator at the end. And so I'm like, damn, what would Farrah's 40 time be? By the way, this is not a Landman pod, and I won't ask you to talk about Landman again, but I didn't get a chance to say this on any other Ringer pod as we were largely not podding over the last week. And so let me just say right now, canonically saying in the Landman finale that Ryder is

runs a 4-4-40 as a quarterback is one of the most astonishing things i've ever heard uttered aloud on television couldn't believe it that's that was your breaking point i'm sure you were struck as well that was your breaking point of landman not all the other things that happened in that show correct okay um so as the parents are doing this the kids are the kids are on the ship they're headed home playing slap ball uh it doesn't look as fun as i imagine it would

I think that might be my last one because I have, as I told you and Steve in an unrelated text message earlier in the week, I've had like debilitating neck pain. Don't strain yourself. To the point where I thought I had a pinched nerve. Don't strain yourself by gently waving your hands back and forth anymore. Yeah. Here's my question. Did this seem like a safe thing to do in a spaceship?

Nothing in a safe... It just feels safe to me in a spaceship, to be honest with you. Yeah. Yeah. It did look like they were having a blast, though, and I found it charming, but I thought, don't do this in a spaceship. It made me miss BB-8 in the Millennium Falcon. You know what I mean? Like... The best. Just sort of like, laying around. Okay, anyway. So, they're playing softball. Wim is worried about everything going back to normal once they get home, but...

He regrets pressing the button in the first place. And it's Fern of all people. Fern who's like, no, don't touch, Wim, no, don't touch that. Don't touch that. Stop touching that. Fern's like, of course, of course you should have. Of course we need to go on this adventure. Loved it. Neil also kind of chimes in as well. Is as supportive as someone who is as worried generally as Neil is can be in all of this. I thought this was great.

Just, you know, they're scared. They're not home yet, but they're glad they got to share this adventure together. The fern being so supportive of Wim here, and then Wim in turn being so focused on rescuing fern in the finale, that does mean something to me. When we get the holo message from the parents, it turns out that

that they did know about the droid overlords, and they did know about the truth behind the great work, and that knowing about everything about the great work is sort of a rite of passage for at-at youth. You graduate high school, and then you are let in on this information. We're going to come back to this a bit more, but this actually really shocked me.

and, uh, anything you want to say about this in this moment, or do you want to save it for a finale discussion? I'll just quickly say, cause you've been watching a lot of survivor that this gave me real letters from home on survivor vibes. Yeah.

way that they like move forward almost like they're being pulled uh by by the prospect of hearing from a loved one who nobody class not communicating nobody collapsed on all fours on the ground and started like heave sobbing which they often do on survivor though so um but yeah i was also i was like whoa what uh that is a really interesting wrinkle that i had like frankly not anticipated and i'm intrigued by it and it opens up post finale as well like a lot of

questions to me. What happens if you say, like, no, I'm not into it? Then what? What do they do with you? Is that where the poison gas comes to mind? Yeah, I just, like, it does raise a lot of questions about what other nefarious secrets this place holds. Like, surely someone before Wim was, like, out there. You know what I mean? Like...

Okay. And also very important in this hollow, Neil's little brother lost a tooth, but all he wants is his brother, Neil, back safe and sound. Have you ever felt quite so seen as when Numa, Neil's mother, addressed Neil as my sweet baby boy? That's like truly Numa is all of us. Numa, come on the pod. Please.

Numa's actually my favorite. I'm sad that Numa was not like, we've got two main parents. And I really think Numa should have been promoted to main parent. Same. And KB's mom seemed awesome. Yeah. I really wish we had gotten more time with them. Wendell and Farrah are fine, but I actually really maybe actually preferred those parents. Okay, anyway. Mal, I don't know if you've heard this before, but we love a character on an arc. Yes. But not like this. This is a spot for us to work through. Yeah.

I actually think this is quite a genius thing of the show. Jod's, we'll call it a heel term, but it's just sort of like what he always was. He actually just stood in place. Just did not turn in any direction whatsoever. And we kept...

wanting him to despite every single character who's ever dealt with him telling us not to trust him. And, you know, like we are overthinkers. So certainly like this possibility existed in our mind that like, you know, if he could go one way, he could go another way. And if like, if he's actually got a heart of gold in there,

uh great but maybe it'll be a betrayer i was constantly thinking about how does it all end for long john silver like where would i put long john silver on on a character arc in terms of like how he reacts to discovery of treasure or lack thereof and jim and all of that at the end of the book but

When did Jod's, not heel turn, but just staying in place, pass the point of no return for you? Was it, and I'm guessing it's nudging Ratty with his foot, but was it shooting Brutus? No, that was fine. I mean, shocking. I actually thought it was. Because he just shot him in the head in front of everyone. It wasn't an emotional point of no return for me because Brutus is a bad guy. And also, I didn't really care for that character at all.

The way he did it, though, I was like, uh-oh. Yeah, it was like when he was like, yeah, just fill the stairs with acid and melt all the pirates. You're like, oh, no, he would have been fine if that had worked. His intention was for that to work. So, happening at 733 actually wasn't, genuinely, I wasn't that worried because I was like, they're just going to put that droid back together. That droid's going to be fine. He's survived a lot. And then we get droids aren't people. Oh, this is...

Dreads aren't people. They can be fixed usually. Okay. And then we get this monologue, one of two John monologues that we'll be spending time with today. Will you fine folks please play the clip for us? It's on autopilot. Shut up! You're incessant, unending jabba jabba jabba. Honestly, it is unbearable. Leave him alone! All of you, not just him, all of you.

You're the worst one. Poor boy. What? Mallory, when I clicked this this morning, I saved it on my phone so that I could just play it for the next youth who speaks through a movie at the movie theater. And I'm done! Your incessant, unending jabber, jabber, jabber. Weak, sheltered, spoiled children.

Oh, boy. Tough, tough one for the kids to hear this whim, especially perhaps. All right. So so was there a moment, you know, whether it's decapitating SM33 and you can make your own case about why that's the worst thing that's ever happened on film or television that you were like, oh, we're not getting a redemption arc for John.

Yeah, I think it was just everything in the sequence that you just listed kind of all connected because any one thing in isolation, maybe like, I mean, now I'm thinking back to our conversation in the episode five and six pod where we're like, some of these things seemed bad. It's just ordering the melting via acid of everyone he used to call his crew seemed saying, let's take the kid's prisoner seemed bad, but maybe it could have been funnier.

Maybe it's for their benefit. Genuinely, I think something that came out of my mouth. Yes, we wanted to believe. But this like rapid succession of the close range execution of Brutus.

I loved this scene. This was my favorite scene of the episode, and it's why I thought episode seven was really excellent. Because it became clear what was happening with Jod's character. I found the payoff scenes of the finale to be quite compelling, and I'm excited to talk about them. But I was like, oh, no, no. This is like, they have managed to...

subvert our expectations in a way that is super rewarding and completely tracks. And the performance is outstanding. And in this scene, we got little delicious elements when he activated that lightsaber and charged forward. It's not only the legitimate shock. I felt shocked when he decapitated SM-33, like shocked. It was the fact that it was so apparent. He had no idea how to use a lightsaber. And then now with what we learned in the finale,

He moved without any grace or comfort or familiarity. This was not a part of his life. You could just feel it. And then what we learned in the finale, it's like, well, maybe he got to use one a couple times before the Jedi who found him was killed in front of his eyes. This was just fantastic. What he said to the kids, the clip we just heard, and then what he says right after about how happy he was

was that he got to see their parents' faces on the hollow because it makes it very easy for me to know who to carve up. I will each one piece by piece slowly if you don't behave. We have many moments in the finale where he says something horrible or declares that he doesn't want to hurt anyone. And the fact that these things feel completely at home with each other is why Jod is a great character. He is, when he's saying later in the finale he doesn't want to hurt people, he is trying to convince himself, as it seems, as much as

the people around him or us watching at home. And then it's like, well, what is he capable of and why? So I just thought this was like great. And, and with what we were pairing it with what we learned in the finale, there's a tragedy at play here that I find quite satisfying. When he says you're all weak, weak, sheltered, spoiled children. I was just like, Oh no. Like what happened to Jod that he never got to be a child again?

And like the implication, and obviously we will get to that speech and we will hear June say that speech as well because it's wonderful, but...

The implication is that even before this tragedy befalls him, you know, he's in a hole, he's ragged. Like, you know, it's just like there was never a time when he got to be childlike. Yep. Um, and that has actually put him in a state of permanent sort of immaturity, uh, to a certain degree. So, um, yeah, I thought that was all really well done really well. Okay. So we're just going to zoom through, uh, the rest of this episode just to say, uh,

Uh, they call it a mine. A mine! Okay. It's been so long since anyone has visited at Atten that a lawn has grown over the landing pad and the people walking there had no idea that they were walking on top of a landing pad. Wild. Yeah. We find out that there's a massive mine and several, 1,139. That's a lot. To be exact, vaults full of batteries. Yes.

So, yes, there's a mine underneath the planet. And so this made me, like, so happy for you, Mallory, because I remember you calling out in the first episode when Fern's, like, telling her tall tales. And you're like, what if there's truth to the things that she says? So something she says in the first episode, you know, the last kid who skipped assessment, the proctor took him down to a secret chamber under the school to make him work in the mines. Mm-hmm. I mean, um...

The story she tells about the poison gas leak, though, I don't know if that one is based in reality. And if it is, it's got some disturbing implications. That's dark. Maybe we'll find out in season two if we get one. More importantly than any of that is the image of Jod just sort of...

Orgasmically burying his snoot in an avalanche of gold. A real Scrooge McDuckening happening here as he's just sort of like letting it pour over him. I don't know why. Andor is always on my mind. Did you think about Nemec? Nemec who got crushed to death by, I guess because I was like, ooh, I wonder if he'll get crushed to death by all this gold. That was just on my mind. And I was like, poor Nemec got, spoilers for Andor, destroyed.

crushed to death by some credits. Nemec was more on my mind actually in the finale when we see KB and the credits kind of pour out and then the ship is collapsing and they're like, get out of there. I was like, they're not going to, we're not going to have a Nemec situation here, are we? But Nemec is always, I think, always on our minds. I listen to the manifesto every morning. Mere months to Landor. Mere months.

We get a full circle moment for Jod who started the show with an empty vault. And here it's just more, more vaults than he could possibly even know what to do with. And it all ends on a cliffhanger for our brave kids. We don't have to worry too much about that because we have the advantage of having already seen episode eight. Anything you want to say about the way it ended and then picked up again with the dark screen and the sound of the lightsaber in episode eight? Yeah.

You know, I'm always a sucker for that. Always a sucker for the sound of an igniting lightsaber. It either thrills you or it terrifies you. It's among the most effective, like, instant sensory immersive experiences that you can have. So I was like, fuck, is John about to do exactly what he said he was about to do? And then, like you said, we pick up right in that moment. And I have some notes on this opening sequence in the finale. So let's just dive. Let's dive into episode eight. Finale time.

Okay, so I'm calling this section Take Your Daughter and Her Creepy Slash Hot Adoptive Pirate Father to Work Day for Farrah. The parents are there, the kids are there, and Jod has concocted a story about how he is an emissary and he needs to see the mine and talk to a supervisor because it'll be better than talking to droids a little to say no. The supervisor, also a droid. Oh, we should say, I mean... Yeah, all right, yeah.

In episode seven, we heard Stephen Fry's voice. And we're like, wow, okay. Stephen Fry's here as the supervisor. The death of the is tachyrenic, the supervisor theory, but the birth of... It's so funny. We're going to get Stephen Fry voicing a droid, huh? Because it was the death for us. But I saw that theory be more popular than ever between episode seven and eight. And I'm like, you don't know Stephen Fry's voice, guys? Come on. Stephen Fry. Right.

Anyway, what are your... And so, Jod and his guys as emissary. I agree with you and everyone on the internet and Ben Lindbergh that Jod was not handling that lightsaber very well. But I did like the panache and the very sort of like...

pirate with a cutlass way. He sort of held it out to his side when he was menacing and then not menacing the parents at the end of Episode 7 into Episode 8. But...

Jod concocts a story about how much trouble the kids are in due to their escape and, quote, troublesome behavior out in the galaxy and essentially sends them to their room with creepy safety droid babysitters, except for Farrah and Fawn, and we'll talk about that. Is this the thing that you want to address? Is this the... Yeah, not from Jod's perspective, but from the parents' perspective, this just fell really flat for me as, like, the great... When they all run to each other initially in Seven, I was quite moved. But here...

I don't know. Like, even on a rewatch, I...

I found myself, like, struggling to – I was needing to talk myself into, okay, well, even with, like, the rebellious streak that we saw in the last couple episodes as they worked their secret plan, still, as soon as you had the opportunity to just fall back into the rhythm of your old life, like, maybe you would, actually. That's human nature. So it was less even that and more, like, I don't know. Yeah.

This scene coupled with the initial moments between Wendell and Wim and Farrah and Fern, and maybe this is what we're supposed to feel, I just wanted to shake them by their shoulders. Yeah, I felt so frustrated. Your kid was in outer space. And don't you want to ask them about this?

Like, it just didn't... That just didn't... One of the things I've loved, loved, loved about the show so far, I'm like, I feel like that's how you would behave. Like, I feel like that's what you would do. And this did not feel that way to me. And because of that, it was hard for me to shake that...

we needed, even though the parents were on this journey of moving closer to their kids and understanding their kids, we just needed to get the characters apart. Like, we just needed to separate them. We needed Wim to go to his room and have to walkie-talkie Neil. Like, we needed Fern and Farrah to be in a different place. It felt like a mechanic of the plot rather than the natural reaction that the parents would have. And, like, then it allowed for one more

moment for their kids directly, not in absentia, but in front of them in person to compel them to act. To say, trust me. Yes, exactly. And like, when we got the moment of the trust me, it...

Like, it does. It's very compelling. But I'm kind of like, I don't know if we would have needed that anymore. So I found myself kind of, like, struggling with that at the beginning of the episode. I actually think – so you mentioned earlier when you were talking about the – in a complimentary way about the season as a whole. Yep. You were, like, expertly plotted. And I would say, yes, except – my exception would be some of the parent stuff. Because I just feel like – For sure. I actually almost think that –

Maybe they were too rebellious in the kids app. Like it was too much of a swing of like running through the woods to all the way back into functionary roles. It makes sense to me. And again, to your point, it's sort of like I'm talking myself into this, but it makes sense to me that they would be spurred to action to uncharacteristic action in the absence of the kids. And then once they get the kids back, they're like, okay, normal, normal, normal, normal compliance, compliance, compliance.

droid overlords, et cetera. Like you and I had the same conversation with ourselves about this. But yeah, there was just like so much like cloak and dagger, corporate espionage, stealing things, sort of stuff. And then Wendell, especially Wendell has a, has great moments in this episode and we'll get to them, but like,

Wendell especially was just like... The fact that he expected Wim, who left the planet...

To when he's like, no, you can't get on the hover bikes. And then he just turns his attention back to like the fuse box and is like mumbling to himself. And I was like, what do you think your kid who's just traveled the galaxy is going to do? Not get on a hover bike? Right. What are you talking about? He got on a literal spaceship. Yeah. So, yeah, I agree. I was getting a little fed up with it. And then when the turn happens, to your point, it was like very enjoyable. Yeah.

It reminded me a lot of, again, a character I love, Lillia, in Agatha talking about stereotyping witches. And I'm like, get another song, Wendell. I've heard this one already. Okay. Farrah, as we've heard all season, has direct access to the supervisor, but...

She must not ever, ever use that access. And she does have the line, quote, you see the supervisor rarely grants an audience because it is so dusty inside of the supervisor's chambers. And I don't understand why it isn't one of the hundreds of thousands of droids on this planet's job to vacuum, to dust busts.

the supervisor's chamber because it seems to me, and I am no droid expert, as you know, I don't think they're humans. But I do think that a bunch of dust in their gears and gizmos is going to gum up the work. So why would you, if this massive supervisor droid is essential for everything on the planet, we see what happens when he takes a lightsaber to the eye socket, then like, keep that thing

that thing gleaming. Keep it spiffy. Yeah. Absolutely. Just a Swiffer now and then something. Something. A little feather duster. I love the way you said dust bust. I agree. I was struck by that. I was also getting some before we get to the WALL-E and 2001 overt vibes. I got some like

Doctor Who, the long game vibes just from like all the kind of hanging stuff above them. And I was like, Joanne is going to be so proud of me. I am proud of you. I am proud of you. I was thinking about that as well. And I love that you felt that way. And also, you know, like we get...

R2, Hal, WALL-E, if you prefer, all of that is in the mix. But also Daleks are in the mix. I said I stalk for a reason, and that's a Dalek anatomy thing. For sure. So, yeah. I did love the way...

Despite my own frustrations with her sort of sliding back into her functionary role, I did like the way that Farrah was sort of like excited to bring Fern to see the supervisor. And she's just like, don't slouch. But I wish she had just turned her gaze slightly to the left where John is just shooting evil daggers at her daughter. Like, Farrah, get some peripheral vision, please. I beg of you. Yeah.

They were trading quite a lot behind her there. I found this, for that reason, amusing and charming and broadly, genuinely maddening. Like, this was the low point to me. Don't slouch. I'm sorry your kid was missing in space. Like, hug her and take her home and make sure she's okay. Don't take her to the principal's office and tell her not to slouch. But again, they had a lot to shake off. Farrah's...

Farrah's lived a life of compliance. Okay. I was thinking about how she said in episode three that she and her friends used to try to run away a lot, you know? And then, of course, we get a version of that from Wendell in this episode where he's like, you know, I wanted to meet a Jedi and just reminding us that there were periods in their lives. And that it was sort of beaten out of them. Yeah, exactly. So then you understand, well, okay, they had to like...

opt in. And then every day after that, you're like, well, this is what I chose. So I guess it would be hard to shake, but yeah. What is your favorite Stephen Fry performance? Oh, God. That's a great question. I don't know. I actually don't know if I have a number one top of the list that stands out. It's like part of it is just the...

his inextricable presence from like consumption. Yeah. It's like always there and it's always a delight. Um,

As I mentioned back in the binge HP days, I had never listened to the Dale or Fry audiobooks. No, never. So I don't have that particular association. But yeah, what about you? Do you have a favorite? I was going to say, I am a Jim Dale faithful, but I am going to say that...

Jeeves and Wooster, huge fan of, watched a lot of QI, all that sort of stuff like that. But I was going to bring up the Harry Potter book narration because I do think for a lot of Americans who have listened to the British audiobooks of Harry Potter, Stephen Fry is a voice actor.

to them to a certain degree. So to bring him in as a voice actor here and the skill that he has as a voice actor in just a short bit, or if you prefer him as a voice actor in Heartstopper, he's also on the radio in Heartstopper. But, like, the patronizing... Yeah. Stephen Fry...

Always and everything ever, except for maybe Cold Comfort Farm, just exudes IQ, right? Just exudes intellect. And his sort of like patrician accent, all of that. And then condescension and patronizing is also in the mix of the brand there. So that this would be the super brain, the supercomputer at the heart of this operation makes a lot of sense. And so...

The way that he says with patronizing benevolence,

To Farrah, is that under, like, unctuous almost. Is that Undersecretary Farrah, I see, one of my most dedicated citizens. I have been watching over you and your daughter with great interest. No thank you, not just because he's paraphrasing Palpatine, but we live in a surveillance state in Ad Aten, and that is just a creepy, creepy thing to hear from Farrah.

Our guide. Terrifying. Terrifying. And this is interesting because, like, obviously there are plenty of stretches of Star Wars where the droids are the opposition. They're the terror. They're the menace. And then there are plenty of stretches of Star Wars where the droids are beloved pals and friends. And so this particular, like, payoff of the...

Jod's mistrust of droids, the kids reprogramming droids, where we are currently in society thinking about the creep and control of AI, like all of that. This was just like, yeah, again, like the connection here to understanding that the parents knew and that this is like the way that Farrah thinks of the meaning of this opportunity to receive this audience. And there's no fear. There's just like...

and deference from her was really harrowing to have to confront. So yeah, I never want anyone to be quoting Palpatine and certainly not Palpatine to a young Anakin. It doesn't go well. It's simply a no for me. Okay. Um...

The words I wrote down, I don't know why. I wrote in my notes, the supervisor fusses and tuts. Fussing and tutting is something that Stephen Fry does better than almost anyone, right? But he's talking about the unstable nature of the world outside of Ed Atten's protective boundaries. And this, more than anything else, made me think about Hal from 2001. This hyper-rationality of a supercomputer that...

Claims to be protecting you all the while damaging you the way that both the supervisor and Hal concealed truths from humans around them for the greater good of the mission.

And just the giant, I don't know, giant glowing red robotic eye is always going to make me think about Hal. But in the behind the scenes, they've talked about how the shape of him, which is a slightly canonical massive dome shape, is meant to invoke our pal R2-D2. I was also reminded in the sort of like giant dome-ish scene

surrounded by a lot of cobwebs. I was reminded of Morla from The NeverEnding Story, just sort of like an ancient thing that's been here for a long time. Or a lion turtle, if you prefer, from Avatar. But, um...

What is your thought about this idea of, like, we had speculated this, that the planet was run by droids, that the planet was run by droids perhaps operating on old programming, that they were just sort of, like, on their little loop, to quote Westworld, just sort of, like, doing what they were programmed to do, and in doing so are...

or maybe slightly intentionally holding these humans prisoner, essentially, in their roles. Yeah, so this is an example to me of, I think,

Like, how we got some clarity. We had some questions answered. And also, more questions remain that we could, in theory, get answers to in the future. Like, there's a lot we don't know about the other jewels of the Old Republic, the rest of those planets, including still the ones we visited. So, you know, we hear Jod say, you're ruled by a droid. And Farah says, as decreed by the Great Work. One of my questions is, everywhere? We didn't see a giant supervisor droid in the middle of, you know, when we went at Akron. So, were there...

different methods and beings in charge of oversight across the jewels wasn't consistent. And this was part of what was like torn down in the horror that engulfed that planet. Interesting to contemplate. One of the things that I really liked about this stretch was

We'll obviously get to the Order 66 stuff here in a second, but just visually, that red eye, like the way that it's switching as the supervisor speaks between red and like the flashes of blue, I thought that nicely in a classic Star Wars way captured our uncertainty about Jod.

Like I think like we've already discussed coming out of episode seven, we're pretty sure we're not going to get just a true, hey, I'm a hero finale showing from him. But he's not, I don't think either of us will come out and say Jod is a villain. We've seen him do villainous things, but he is a character I think defined by conflict and the capacity for evil and also the desire maybe for good. And so I just love that like you're flashing between the red and

blue, light side, dark side color coding? This is so us, by the way, because I really agree with you and at the same time he threatened to carve up everyone's parents. But he didn't. But he didn't. He didn't. So...

You know what maybe the toughest moment was? This was obviously the pirates, though. He did call them down to the planet and say, hey, please take all of the citizens and give me my labor camp. Not good. When Neil's twin baby siblings like plop down on the grass and go pow pow to each other's hands. John is ultimately responsible for ordering the pirates to do a thing that led to that. It is just not good. It's not good.

Okay, this, Malarman's like, here's my hot take for the day. Labor camp's bad. Not good. Not good. I'm just going to go on a limb. Okay, the supervisor's very kindly and patronizing demeanor drops when he catches Jod in a lie slash contradiction. Contradiction, of course, being the very thing.

That unhinges Hal's AI-minded 2001 A Space Odyssey. But we get some BBY evidence of the last time Ad Atten had contact with the outside world. This is what the supervisor says. You see, the last message from the Republic stated that all Jedi were traitors. So which are you lying about? Being an emissary or a Jedi?

So Order 66. Sick. Yeah. So you got him with that one? It was really good. I was like, oh, shit. And it was fast. It was fast. He didn't pull the cobwebs over the supervisor's eyestalk for much time at all. Order 66 made it all the way to Ad Aden. And that was in 19 BBY. And now we're in 9 ABY, which is the Mando timeline. So it's been at least 28 years since.

Since they got, I assume, an updated message. But we don't know if it was even longer, and it seems like it might have been since they got a physical visitor. Yep. This is what Ford and Watts said about sort of some of this nebulous information we get here. They said...

Watts said there are drafts where we really explain everything at certain points in the show. And Ford says they get into the supervisor's room and he explains everything. And then we were like, wait, we can't do this. It's really boring. And Ford says the fact that our planet was purposely hidden helps it fit in without making too many ripples. And you and I have talked about this. We talked about this a lot with like Ahsoka. Yep.

You invoked this sort of IP era that we live in, this IP era where we're milking the – do you milk the juice? No. Do you juice the milk? No. We're juicing these IP properties for as much story as we can get, and we're trying to sort of like –

So we're trying to cram stories inside the margins of in-between trilogies, in a prequel, in a whatever, but how can we make it so that it doesn't impact the

the storyline that people already know inside of the movies or inside of this TV show or whatever. And so Ahsoka disappears for a while or Ezra disappears for a while, you know, and we come up with fun, fantastical reasons for it. But the main reason is so to explain their absence from... Oh, I don't know what Star War. And so...

so the fact that Adaten is this hidden planet to their point allowed them and the Lucasfilm story group to sort of

Create a bunch of things that don't have an impact on the larger story we're telling. We're also sort of in a galaxy far, far away. And then also what Ford said about the secrecy of Ad Atten is Ford said, honestly, it's because it's slightly too complex for especially episodes that are like a ride. It's like, well, the planet was hidden on purpose a really long time ago.

that it was kind of half forgotten about, except for a few people. And then those people were killed. It's many layers of forgetting. So Mallory...

Do you have any thoughts or speculation about who the, like, few people who might have known about Ed Atten were and then they died and then nobody knew about Ed Atten? I don't. And I also will get ahead on saying I don't have any theories for the Jedi who found Jod. And I kind of, like, love that. Like, there was not...

It feels so open to me, the possibilities. And like in a way that again, heightens my sense that we don't just have, it doesn't happen. And either of those examples doesn't have to be somebody who already know could be, it doesn't have to be. And that's like really thrilling to me. I thought that that, that quote from Ford is fantastic and really like unsettling to think about, you know, a place lost to time in so many different respects. And I find myself thinking,

really interested in both the pre and post order 66 aspect of this, like in terms of the, the post order 66 aspect of this, I obviously the supervisor received that message. Yeah. Doesn't mean anyone else did. Right. On the planet for sure. Yeah. Yeah. And so it was, I was thinking back to like the Kim, you know, miss the war. Did you exactly kids? And cause like once we found out the parents knew, uh,

About the droid and the control and that they're on purpose being like, this is an isolationist world deliberately. I started to wonder like, well, do they know more about what's happening out there than we understood? And I like don't think they do. No, no, no. Which is cool. Yeah. And like, and so this idea of the supervisor also not having an update in three decades, but also like the citizens and inhabitants of Adat and not even knowing that

this massive thing had happened and Wendell giving his kid a story pad full of Jedi stories thinking they were still out there is like wild. In terms of the lead up,

First of all, I thought just like the, that moment, which are you lying about? Jod's face, the way he looks so shaken to me. And I think given what we hear later, I took that as like, because he got caught mostly, but also there's that little like reminder of what he lost. Yeah. Wild and very interesting in terms of the like forgotten thing. I like the idea that this like great work of the old Republic, uh,

These nine jewels. This was a larger pursuit. We have our tapestries. We have our datteries. We have our insignias and our crests. And...

Over the passage of time and periods of transition, fewer and fewer people are aware that this is here, any of those planets. And it makes me think again, like when we're thinking about at Akron, like why has the planet been left in this state and why have the people been left in this state? And we talked at the time about how like they were engaged in trade. It seemed like there was some capacity to leave, but what level of travel, what level of awareness, what level of engagement? Those were all open questions.

And this idea of these worlds like in varying degrees among the nine jewels left behind and at Atten being a place where everything was still going. The mint is active. They're making the batteries and they're just piling up in a thousand plus vaults and nobody's coming to collect and nobody's coming to hand anything off. And nobody's going anyway. No one's asking why.

Why should we stop or should we send someone out to figure out what's going on or any of that? It reminds me a lot. I love, I love everything you just said. It reminds me a lot of stories like silo or the village or whatever, where again, and we talked about this before, this idea of like, we need to protect you from the instability of the world out there. Like order an order 66 beacon goes out. The supervisor receives it.

And then receives no more beacons. And is that because nobody sent anything? Or is that because the supervisor was like, sounds like...

shit's popping off out there let's just circle the wagons and and keep ourselves safe here right you could have to like well the republic becomes the galactic empire and the frequencies change and that's it no more transmissions right that could be the explanation exactly yeah or it could be the other yeah it's it's it's fascinating um right and then like

Who was still aware of Ad Aten, let's say, around the time of Order 66, that then died and that secret died with them, you know? And it would stand to reason that they were, quote unquote, the real good guys to Parlowimism. If this then remained free of Palpatine's taint, at least up to this point, I think that seems unlikely to continue to be.

Yeah, let's keep everything free of Palpatine's taint if we can, please. Oh, God. But, like, I think Palpy gets in here immediately and takes that coin to help build the Death Star, which was fucking expensive and led to a lot of problems and conflict between some of our favorite villains from other tales. So...

The line being cut off now, it's like it's been discovered by the New Republic, but that doesn't mean anything at all. So many people. Because there are spies and traitors inside of the New Republic or even just the fact that there's more awareness now. Anybody could get in there. How long until this is in?

Hux's hands, you know? A Hux. Elder Hux or younger Hux. You know, Hux's cat's not going to feed itself. So if he needs to use these vaults to take care of his cat, then yeah. Is this the fortune that built the First Order? Has been a theory and is a great one, I think, to keep in mind.

Is this something that somehow Thrawn returned? Is this something that Thrawn is going to get his hands on? That was a big question people had. So, okay. Before the supervisor has a chance to grind the action to a halt with a stultifying monologue that the writers were like, we're not going to let... Sorry, Stephen Fry, we love your voice. You don't get a full monologue. Jon puts a lightsaber through Thrawn.

Yeah. Tough. His dying words, must protect the mint. Everybody in the Ring of Hearts family about mint edition, you know? Every chance we get, must protect the mint. Minty fresh. Must protect the mint. I hope that's their new, like, opening line.

audio. Anyway. That'd be great. Here's my note for everyone in Star Wars. I do like that Jod got to, this is like the closest he gets ever, presumably, to being Anakin Skywalker. One shot and you take out the whole droid army. But I think everyone in Star Wars should stop building things so that one lightsaber thrust or one cannon blaster beam takes out everything. It's vampire rules. It is. He killed the sire and all the thralls collapsed. It's not great.

As you know, I love a vampire, but I would just simply not suggest you build your society upon a vampiric structure. It's just not...

It's not how I would plan a city, but, you know, who am I to say? Oh, man. This move not only makes all, turns off all, it's like a city-wide, planet-wide, I don't know how big the city on this planet is. Well, it's one of your elements. Yeah, exactly. Is there a difference? Same, same. Blackout. And shuts down the safety droids, which were babysitting the kids, and this was Jaws' most fatal move, I think, among several. Um...

So the jig is up. Yeah. Jod never looked like an emissary, never looked like a Jedi. He looked like a pirate this whole time. And guess what? He is one. I wanted to mention, I don't know if I mentioned this when we saw his helmet in episode one. We did remark on the helmet. We were like, why the helmet there and not elsewhere? But yeah,

The fact that it kind of looks like a tricorner hat, I love. That sort of, like, faint, piratical tricorner hat top to it is great. Okay, so Jon is not a hot emissary. He's not a Jedi. He...

Simply wants to plunder at Atten's vaults, if you know what I mean. And so... Bad baby. And then be on his merry way is what he says. I don't want to hurt you. I just want to do this and that's fine. And Vern's like, this motherfucker's lying. And... Yeah. Yeah.

Fern's right. Yeah. It's like two seconds after he says, I don't want to destroy anything. Then he says, get down here and begin the invasion. Yeah. So, you know, he wants an endless ATM. Like, Jod is genuinely driven by his greed. We know emotionally why. Like, the life you want to live. But I loved your description earlier of orgasmically Scrooge McDucking. Like, there is not a...

flash of doubt or trepidation or oh is this the choice i should be making when he sees those batteries like he's not gonna leave one of them it's just bizarre i mean i understand this is this is again this is why ilsa will reach for the grail and fall down a ravine spoilers for the last crusade like that you know sometimes you just can't help yourself but i'm just sort of like

You don't have enough time in this galaxy to spend 1,189 volts worth of energy.

I think I got that number wrong. 39 volts worth of batteries. Like, what are we doing? Anyway, it doesn't matter. The greed is bottomless because he's got a void inside of him and he's trying to fill it with gold. And perhaps he can be redeemed. More on that later. Okay. Meanwhile, out in the burbs. Yeah.

Yeah. Yep. Wendell's sad dad energy goes to another level entirely over microwave dinner. It's tough. Dude, okay. I think we were supposed to find this like sort of sad, that close-up shot of the glass air fryer on the TV tray dinner. Were you like, that looks delicious? I don't know.

I thought this, I swear to you, I thought this made me salivate. It looked like a full fucking baking tray of brownies or something. No, it wasn't. That was what it looked like. It was like sad brown meat. It was like weird synthetic protein. Maybe it was devil's food cake. I don't know. Here's the real problem. If I could get protein from something that looked like a brownie, and I know I can, you know, protein bars, but I'd be thrilled. I'm so concerned. Here's the problem. Yes.

We know that convenient food in the Star Wars universe can be great. Yeah. Shout out forever. Ray's little like bread bowl that she makes. Yeah. Yeah. Milk straight from the teat. If Jakku is giving you powdered like sourdough. Yeah. What is this shit? What?

This is what happens when you're on a droid run planet where they don't care that much about food and you're cut off from everyone else in the galaxy. They kept the place running. Okay. Is this what happens to the people who disobey? Oh, God. It's soil and green people. That would be a tough one. That would be a tough one.

So Wim did learn the lesson that we were anticipating he would. He says, I saw places out there that made me get how good home is. This is something that we thought was his journey the entire time. But it does not mean that he has put his rebellious spirit to bed. That's right. Quite the opposite. And he tries to contact Neil.

who, like Wendell's dad, seems pretty ready to lie low and soak in a bubble bath. Neil, you are a legend and an icon, and we will remember you always. Listen. He loves a bath. I love a bath. I love a bath. I love this for him. Some people leave their mark. Some people make a genuine and lasting impression. Yeah.

And everyone else is eating shitty food or going to visit the supervisor or whatever the fuck else. And Neil is like, it's time to soak. TikTok, it's bath o'clock. I just love this. We're going to suds up. Oh, my God. Great stuff. Fantastic. Genuinely great. Of all of the Neil moments, and there are so many, in my top three is the first bubble bath incident where he's like, ah!

I still have notes on putting the skylight right above the top. I don't know. Personally, but you can see the frigate comments start to blow up your planner. That's true. Wim covers his illicit walkie talkie call to Neil with the droid by pretending to play with his action figures. Great stuff. Oh, come on. We need to save Princess Fern.

I loved it. This droid's a dipshit. He got duped very easily by Wim, but I liked the inventiveness. I felt proud of Wim in this stretch. Dismayed by Wendell, who was like, you know, the supervisor will fix it. It's fine. But proud of Wim, genuinely. And again, awed by Neil. Wendell, not great. That's what the supervisor is for, you think?

And then that's where we get, yeah, I did skip over. That's where we get that moment that you were alluding to earlier when he says, you think I didn't just want to take off and meet a Jedi. Right.

Neil's arc led him to a bubble bath. Wim's arc leads him to try to dupe droids. KB's arc as sidekick to driver of plots and schemes, Fern, gets to be in the driver's seat for the rest of the episode. I will say, actually, and maybe this is a critique you'll agree with me on,

Not nearly enough Neil in this episode and not nearly enough for like Neil to do that is interesting and surprising to us because him finding the gun that we knew was on the roof of the school and then using it is like, okay. So like, I don't know that I saw Neil do, though he did so without as much anxiety as he would have done otherwise.

Yeah. And that kind of like worked and didn't for me, actually, because like on the one hand, we know from episode four how he feels about violence. Like, I'm not just saying this because I'm scared, even though I am scared. But I mean, fighting in a raid, I don't want to hurt anybody. The really brave thing would be to just make peace already. So when he fires that turbolaser at a frigate dynamite shot, took out their lead cannon, it was.

He's not the slap bulb champ for no reason, Mallory. We know what it means for Neil to choose to act in that capacity. It's obviously a great payoff of Chekhov's roof cannon as we thought it would be. But we know that this is like, he has to work through something that he actually is

I'm a pacifist and okay, now I'm in a war and I don't want to be, but I have to protect my friends. That works. But the fact that we didn't have then more time to like see what that meant to him. He's just like, I'll cover you. And then he goes and does it without- And how it made him feel. Yeah. I would have loved more Neil time. I mean, of course, like always, I would have loved more Neil time, but I really would have loved more Neil time at the end. Yeah. I would have loved-

Even more KB than we got. But KB, I think at the end of the day, KB wound up being my favorite on the show. I think just because episode six is the thing that like really, really hit me. But like KB shows up. She's not in the sidecar. She's in the driver's seat of the, of the hover bike. And she will stay in the driver's seat of, of the plots and schemes going forward. And I love that for her. And she makes herself a biker gang. She gets Neil out of the bath and onto a bike. Yeah.

She recruits Wim, and then she gets Wendell in her gang. Like, KB, the leader that you are, you know? This was all great, like, for KB, and just in general for the kids and the kind of show this is and the kind of story this is, like, yeah, honoring. It felt like a really wonderful payoff of that. Kids on bikes, 80s, Amblin, up to, you know, Stranger Things energy. Not only, like...

we've got our bikes, but like, we've got a clarity that the adults don't possess. No one knows what's going on, but us. Like the kids alone can save the day and they have to be the ones who show everybody how. Yeah. Very exciting. Very exciting. And they're up against pirates, but also the government, like all of that in there. I was thinking a lot about, um,

E.T., obviously, as they race the bikes to the backyard. But I was also thinking about Ferris Bueller, which also, of course, makes me think of Spider-Man Homecoming, which was, of course, directed by John Watts. But going through the backyards of the Burbs to get where we need to get, it's a great moment.

Wim asks his dad to trust him. He asks Wendell to trust KB, and then Fern will later ask Farrah to trust her. KB's moms don't need that. They just do what KB tells them to do. Yeah.

They rule. They don't need a lecture. Yeah, and they're also like, how do you know how to fly the ship? Not come down, don't fly the ship. They're just like, whoa, you're pretty badass, huh? Of all the trust me's, obviously the ones directly between parent and child are – I felt them deeply, but I was most moved by Wim saying trust KB. Trust KB, yeah. Yeah, because of course it connects back to this beautiful thing that passed between them in your favorite episode. Yeah. But just more generally, it's like that's really like the sign of –

the found family and friendship forged. It's like, you would hope no matter what, eventually you could get someone directly in your bloodline. Obviously, it's not as often the opposite, but like, okay, Wim is going to tell Wendell at some point, trust me, that's where this is heading. Like, Fern is gonna tell Farrah, like, I need you to understand who I am and do the thing I'm telling you is right. But for Wim to say, KB is the one you should listen to, like, you don't know

her, but I'm telling you that I believe in her. Like that was just awesome and made the bond between them feel so fully realized and keen. I just, I really loved that. I love that. I love you putting that out. Um,

Our guy Wendell is on an accelerated track of liberation. He jumps the ravine. We get another clear, an ET homage so clear that StarWars.com points it out as the bikes fly through the air. And then Wendell just like celebrating landing on the other side. Our guy once wanted to run off into the galaxy and see Jedi, turn into the guy who was like, grow up.

You're too old for kids' stories. And now he's just woohooing on the back of a bike that he stole from a teenage delinquent. So great stuff went on. Archive Bonge. One more appearance. We are putting together a plan that's based on little crumbs from all of our previous episodes. Almost all of our previous episodes. Yes. Kim...

Episode three, the X-Wing fighters that they saw come to the rescue in episode six, Neil going to find the turbo laser from episode four, and nobody thought to call Pocket from episode five? Like, that's my question. Horrifying, and yet I felt a wave of relief that Pocket would not come to harm.

If I were KB, I'd be like, hey, Pocket, you want to fuck up John's life even more? Could happen in season two. Meet me at this nebulous gas planet thing. Kim being known as the bird lady, just great stuff. Though I would remind everyone that Kim also possessed quite a few cat features. Cat features. Yeah. It's a cat owl. The cat bird. The cat owl. The owl cat. The Onyx Cinder, before we can execute this plan, the Onyx Cinder is locked. Yep.

It's got a boot on it, essentially. They need to be able to power it up and they have to go to the supervisor's tower to do it. And who can help with that? Only one person. I want us to celebrate Wendell's big damn hero moment. Can you turn them on? Son, you are talking to a level seven systems coordinator. Get the bike. I love this for whatever reason.

I mean, it's just funny, but also the way Wim looked at his dad was just delightful. And the fact that it happened, there have been versions of this. This has happened in stories before that like the, you know, the parent specific skillset has helped in the adventure. But like the fact that his dad doesn't like pull out a lightsaber and is secretly a force user or anything like that. He's like, here's my,

super shitty nerdy job that I've been abandoning you for for the last however long not great parenting from Wendell we can all agree but I'm a level seven systems coordinator and

I can do this is, and then Wim just looks at him with stars in his eyes, like, you know, as, as big as any Jedi in this moment, you know? I love that. Like, I really love what you're, what you're citing about this being like a, a routine everyday kind of heroism. Like the thing I do is for maybe the first time ever cool to you, my kid, like I get to be the hero by just being who I am. Yeah.

That's awesome. And that's like a really great message. And I thought it was not only beautiful for Wendell and Wim, but it felt really crucial in an episode and in a season that in a large way is about exposing their way of life and questioning their way of life. It's like you have this little thing here to say we're not completely invalidating every prior day these people lived, you know? Maybe you, Farrah, but Wendell has some value. Yeah.

Oh, man. Okay, so Wendell and Wim are sneaking their way up to the tower. Neil finds the turbo laser on the roof of the school. KB is somewhere resurrecting the corpse of SM-33. And Jod, walking the line of good bad guy and bad good guy, urges his men not to injure people indiscriminately because he has a co- No, he needs them to work the mine. It's very tough.

It's very tough, Joanna. It's tough. There's good in him. I can feel it. Yep. This is not going to go the way you think. Okay, listen. Then we get this exchange that we heard at the top of the episode, and this was the thesis of the show. Okay, so you can put your walls up and cut yourself off from the rest of the world and keep yourself safe.

But all it will do is create a society where you're distrustful and fearful and do not take one step out of line and just obey the rules and all that sort of stuff. But you have no reason to trust in the good because all you've heard is that out there everything is bad and scary. Yep. And Fern's like, guess what? I've been there. And it was really scary. A lot of really scary things happened to us.

But everywhere we went, there was someone who wanted to help us. Like, starting with that hot lady at Port Borgo. Love her. Yeah.

But also, Cathalys and Kim and Haina, like, that there are people that they met on every step of this adventure that wanted to help them. That there is good in this world, Master Frodo, and it is worth fighting for. Yes. God damn it, yes. Yeah. Yeah, this was lovely. You know, again, it helps us understand something. This is the sales pitch. This is the spin for everybody who does opt in, you know? When you're old enough and you find out that your parents lied to you for your whole life.

This is how you justify it. It's to keep you safe. And then you'll keep the people who come after you safe. And like for Fern, you know, for the kids to all find their courage, not only to have like genuinely gained this new perspective and this new understanding, but then to be able to like champion it to their parents.

And for Fern to say, like, open yourself up to the world and to other people because that's the only way you can really open yourself up to life. Great message for all the kids who are watching this at home. I just loved it. Loved it. Go out and see the world. Challenge yourself. Go out and meet new people. It's 2025. Let's make a resolution. Go out and meet new people. Go out and meet people that you wouldn't already meet. Look for the good in this world. It exists. Maybe. It's not you, John. Okay. Yeah.

and Wim try to distract Jod with their founders, Crystal the founder's tall tale that Mallory mentioned at the top of the episode. I really love this. This is Wim doing his best Fern impression. And Fern catches on pretty quickly. Again, we're just going to find whatever soft edges of Jod we can where we can. I do think there's some tenderness from Jod when he says, work on your story. And like a...

granule of tenderness mixed in with a lot of bitterness when he says the Jedi are all dead. Definitely. No question. I think that

You know, I was thinking back a lot, certainly given what we learned about Jod's history, which we'll get to in a second here, but thinking back a lot to that conversation between Jod and Wim in the fifth episode, which I love so much and was, like, one of my favorite moments of the season. I was thinking about this from both of their perspectives here. Like, Wim, the Jedi are all dead. Imagine if you're Wim hearing that. Like, the episode actually doesn't make any time for Wim to think about that, process that, wonder what it means. But, like...

I think it's inside him, though, when he says, you're no Jedi. Yeah. Right? The Jedi are all dead. You're no Jedi. There are no Jedi, you know?

But don't worry, Wim, there are. And actually quite a few of them. But that's okay. Don't worry about it. Okay, go ahead. Did you – this is, like, not really actually important to the emotional heft of what we're talking about here. But I was, like, I was actually interested in the tense he used. You know, he says, like, they all – he didn't say they all died. He says they're all dead. Like, he doesn't seem to know anything about any rekindling. And that was –

Just, again, so sad. I mean, it's very Rey, the Jedi, the Jedi are real. Yeah, it's just always so sad. So I really liked that little moment. And I love, of course, given Wim's love of story that even though he's getting some notes, he's getting some feedback on the narrative thrust to the plot. Yeah.

This was his instinct, not only to plot and scheme, scheme and plot, but to tell a story. And I love what you're pointing out about the connection to Fern, but just like it's cover, there's a practical element to it. But of course, this would be Wim's compulsion. This would be his instinct to spin the tale. Like, how else would he pass the time? It was great. Yeah, it was lovely.

Jude Law is so good in the show as, I don't know if we've mentioned it yet, but he's really good in this show. And he's good in his anger and he's good in his charm. But his delivery of, you brought your dad, is maybe one of my favorite moments of the season. I just really loved it. I loved it too. I thought this was exquisite. Made me think again of that episode five scene. But this was like, okay, I think we...

We talked about the horrible thing he says to the kids in episode seven. I think he is holding them in a level of, like, judgment. And I think there's a part of him that actually thinks this is, like, embarrassing and shameful and pathetic and that if Wim were a serious person, he would go do the thing Jod told him to do. And then I think this is so reminiscent to me of, like, any mean thing one kid says to another because they're jealous. Yeah.

It's like, this is just the thing that Jod couldn't do and never got to and can't do now. And the fact that Wim has a person in his life who he can rely on and call on is a source of such sorrow for Jod. And he just makes fun of Wim to hide that. And this was perfect. Just absolutely perfect. I 100% agree. And especially, we do see the person that we see that Jod has the most connection to is

is this sort of like motherly pirate that we've called out a couple of times. And like, but we don't know the story there. And also it's tenuous at best. And also the pirate politics are very fractious. That's another thing that, that Watson Ford said that they, in the longer version of this story, they're like, we get into the whole pirate political backstory, but we decided to cut a lot of that. But like this idea of like,

distrust who can you trust who can you rely on and inside of a pirate world it's nobody and the image jumping ahead a little bit but the image of Fern and Wim holding the lightsaber together in order to counteract the very weak force effort that Jod is exuding there because he's alone alright sad

Quite sad. KB makes a call. I don't need to go into all the particulars here. Kim has a whole, like, a bunch of plans about why it is the X-Wings are going to get there so quickly. We've got a direct path. Don't worry about it. They're going to be there in two flaps.

She measures time and distance in flaps. And I love that. Great stuff. Great stuff. It was nice that the finale made room for that and for 33 saying, hold me head steady, girl. Given that watching SM33 get decapitated was one of the worst things that's ever happened to you in your life, how did you feel when you saw that he was here and he was fine and Ratty was also here? Thrilled, obviously. Ratty...

helping ratty's interest in the hollow of kim so funny it's like batting at it it's just delightful and maybe i want to get a hologram for my cat what do you think bug would do with a hologram try to kill it what would it be a hologram of ratty oh boy yeah that would be a source of torment i think a giant rat that a cat could not actually sink its claws into uh tough okay

The first time I watched this, I was very critical of the kids for being like, oh no, KB's dead.

The second time I watched it, I remember that these kids literally have never seen the stars. So maybe they've never seen an action movie. And so they didn't understand that that was clearly a ship that landed and not a ship that crashed and burned up. But that's okay. They don't know that. And so they cried. And Fern was very upset. And so was Wim. And this is where we get Wim tearfully saying, you're no Jedi, you lied. Great, great performance from this kid. Really good.

Really good. Really, really good. I love this. Like, genuinely, I'm such a... I'm unsurprisingly such a sucker for a couple of the things that happened in this episode. The Yerdo Jedi from Whim, and then I'll be amazed if I can avoid crying when we talk about Whim properly activating the lightsaber. But, like, I don't know. It just really worked. I think the... Also, like, I really love this because...

Especially recently, like, because of Ahsoka, a lot of people, like, revisiting the animated shows. You know, the, like, No Jedi, I'm No Jedi is something we... It's a line we really, like, champion in the Ahsoka era of Star Wars, right? This idea of, like, breaking free of these, like, strict confines. But Wim issuing it here as a damnation. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and an indictment. It's like...

what the idea of the Jedi means to a kid who grew up worshiping them was just like, cool. To a woman who just wants to help people in this world, but that's all he wants to do. All the real good guys, the real good guys are coming. And it's just like tragic because of course we learn why Jon is not a real Jedi and that's very, very sad. It's very sad. I will say...

I felt vindicated because this was my main theory the whole time was that he knew a little bit about the Force. That he had the Force, but not very much. And knew a little bit and was young when he was cut off from... I didn't say... I didn't know that a Jedi found him in a hole and he had to watch her die in front of him. But I will say, hopefully the record reflects this. I don't think I ever bought into the magnets thing. Once we saw that...

He didn't have his gloves on when he pulled the key off the wall in that first episode. I'm like, I don't think it's just metal magnet stuff. I think he has a weak-ass force and can barely use it. And we find out why. So can we please hear this clip? They're good guys. No one's coming to save you, boy! Grow up! That's not... When I was your age, all I cared about was not starving. I was living in a hole in the ground. And a Jedi found me.

She may have been desperate and ragged like me, but she told me I had potential. And that was... Well, she only taught me a little before they hunted her down. And they made me watch whilst they killed her. That's the galaxy. It's dark. Pinpricks of light. And for those, I'll kill who I need to kill.

Do you know that Jula is very good at his job? Oh, man. Here's a couple things. We already mentioned this. The fact that he was already in a hole in the ground, desperate and ragged when he was found. Yeah.

That he stops himself before he says anything, but he says, she told me I had potential and that was what? The best moment of my life? The thing I've been chasing ever since? Yeah, just the thing of my life, but he can't bring himself to say it. He just leaves that sort of trailing off. Yeah.

We don't know... So not just another Order 66 survivor necessarily. We don't know if she died during Order 66 or if she was desperate and ragged because she was on the run from Order 66 and she was hunted down later in front of him. That's how I read it. The latter. Yeah, my inclination is the latter as well. But there's a lot of theories out there about who the Slave Master might be. None of them fit established canon of the sort of prominent female Jedi's

that we might know of. And as Mallory says, she doesn't have a theory. I don't have a theory. And I don't need to have a theory. I don't need, like... Watson Ford joked in one of the interviews I read, they're like, let me tell you what the bottle episode of the flashback to John and the Jedi would be. But we don't need to know her at all to know what this meant to him. So...

I love that. Watts' description of Jod's use of the lightsaber and the force is he's like a guy that took a couple piano lessons when he was a kid so he can play that one song that he learned. You know, so he can pull some metal stuff towards him. This description of a few pricks of light really got to me because...

To him, and he said it several times throughout the season, that's just gold. That's just pieces of eight. That's just the security that comes with money in your hand. It means you don't have to go back into that hole in the ground. You don't have to be desperate. You don't have to be ragged. You don't have to be running. You've got gold. You are safe. Right. Yeah.

But those pinpricks of life for the kids are the stars that they got to see for the first time. And more crucially than that, it's all the people that Fern was talking about when she was talking about the good people that they met on these various stars and planets that they visited. Like, they found the good in the galaxy, and it might not be the over—they didn't encounter overwhelming good.

They encountered pinpricks of light, pinpricks of good inside of the galaxy. And people who are willing to stand up, go against what they are supposed to do in order to help these innocent kids. And it made me think of we are the spark that will light the fire that will burn the First Order down because I'm always thinking about The Last Jedi. But what do you want to say about Jod's speech here, Jodi?

what we learned of this backstory and how it stands in contrast to the lesson these kids learned in their adventure in the galaxy. I thought this was so fucking sad. Yeah. Just genuinely, and a great way, again, to give us confirmation while opening up a new depth of emotional understanding about a character and their history. Yeah.

I will miss watching Jude Law. I always miss watching Jude Law anytime I'm not watching it, but I will really miss watching Jude Law play this character, which I think it seems clear he loved playing, like relished playing. Yeah. Your age. I was thinking about that a lot, like the your age callout specifically saying when I was your age. Because, like, it...

it means he was left behind. He fell through the cracks time and time again. Like they, the Jedi temple didn't bring him in when he was a baby. Right. They didn't identify him. They didn't find him. And he didn't have that actually. And like,

to lose and lose and lose and lose. You start to understand how a person who like you want to root for, who keeps disappointing you would rationalize their behavior and that need to themselves. It's like the defining truth of his life. People let you down. Right. And, um,

That hunger idea that you've been calling out all season, like to feel that that is the defining feeling in his life, the thing that shapes him and that he doesn't want to ever experience. Right. It's like always the North Star that he's seeking not to move toward, but to avoid having to feel again. Just very clarifying. The idea that a Jedi.

I think it sounds like we both read the open to a lot of interpretation again in a way I love, but like right at the same way, a Jedi who was on the run after order 66 ragged, uh, desperate, desperate finds him and he's starving and he's poor and he's lonely. And that Jedi tells him you can commune with the energy between all things.

Like, you can use the force. You can do magic. You have potential. Yes. And not just you can do that, but...

You're not alone. This is why I really think that Order 66 had already been executed. It's horrible no matter what, but the idea that this Jedi would already have lost everything else and the thing that she is presenting to Jad is already gone in terms of just the structure, the temple, a place you could go. And so what she is sharing with him is an idea, like a tradition. Yeah, the only question I have about that is

Is that if it were the Inquisitors, let's say, who, like, killed her, why wouldn't they take Joc- you know, like, they made him watch, but he's, however, shabbily Force-sensitive, so why wasn't he, like, taken? Do you know? Could have gotten away. Yeah. You know? But, yeah, maybe that's something we will find out. I mean, it'll

Stay tuned to season two of Skeleton Crew. Okay, sorry. So getting like to glimpse that life, to understand that that life was possible, could have been his life. And then not ever beyond a couple days, weeks, who knows, of training and like a little glimmer and glimpse of that pinprick to ever get to really experience it and live it. It's just like, it's,

All I felt hearing this was just anguish. He didn't get to study at the temple. He didn't get to meet other Padawans. Like, he never got to taste that at all. And it's, like, way sadder to me, actually, than a reveal that he –

was properly trained and then fell to the dark side or something. Like he just never got to actually live the life that he could have lived. And it was like the pinprick in this particular case, it's like, it was only there for a second. Like he blinked and it was gone. That's just so fucking heartbreaking. And then, yeah. So like, how can we not think back to like,

They're what you call attachments, and they're the last thing you need as he's passing that lesson that he heard who knows how many times, couple, on to whim or make your life the one you want to live. Like, of course he's lived his life this way. And then it also, like you said earlier, like, it really does – I mean, I don't find it any more comforting to have watched it, but –

It helps us understand the viciousness that he hurled at the kids when he told them that they were weak and sheltered and spoiled. Because look at what his experience was. Yeah, that microwave meal might look gross to me. But Jod and I know. But Jod in a hole. That it's delicious. Ragged and desperate in a hole would have traded anything for that microwave meal. Yeah, yeah. I love this. You're my favorite person to talk to about story. Same, buddy. I do think this...

The idea of having, of knowing. Horrible. What it felt like and then losing it is, but you know, they say better to have loved and lost than ever loved at all. But I'm not sure that John would agree given his experience. So. Torment. Awful. Thank you for taking me through that. I love you. I love you too. As John is monologuing. She looks great. She looks great.

As all of this is happening, we get a close-up of Wendell's trembling fist that he makes while he's sitting on the ground. And then sort of like through a trick of the camera, we're on Jod's face when Wendell out of nowhere comes flying out and punches him. And I shouted, not the face! Kidney shot or something, not the face!

It doesn't go tremendously well, but what I will say is anytime you show me like a trembling fist off a timid man, I'm thinking about George McFly. I'm always thinking about George McFly. Yeah. That creepy little peeping Tom. But, you know, I just love this like moment for him. Yes. But it is crucially as...

Wim and Fern are trying to hold the lightsaber as, you know, everything is happening. It is Wendell and it is Farrah who flip this extremely large and conveniently ostentatious switch.

in order to bring down the fear. It's the kids who inspire the adults to finally do the thing that must be done. The scary thing. Yes. The rebellious thing. Just do what he says is something that like Wendell and Farrah both say a few times in this sequence as they sort of like clutch the children to them cowering on the ground. And so for Wendell to act and then Farrah to finally help him pull it down I thought was really great. And then...

Do you want to talk to me about Wim igniting the saber correctly? I just loved it. Like, I guess we knew it was going to happen. And as I told you, the comedy of him doing it improperly previously felt so perfect to me. But just like that Wim got that little moment to feel like that. Yeah. It was just...

It was just so cool. Like, it was just so cool. I loved it, and I loved everything you're saying, that he and Fern were standing there fighting together. Like, the horror of watching Wendell – like, Jod used the force to pull Wendell's fingers back away from the handle on the chair and went, oh, God. Like, this was a distressing stretch. Yeah.

And then that surge that Star Wars can give you in your heart, like when you watch a kid like Whim activate that lightsaber or you see the citizens of Ad Aten. I mean, I thought when KB first flew up in the inner cinder above the barrier, it was a gorgeous shot. And then watching the- Did you say the inner cinder? The inner cinder is my shorthand for it. The cinder city? Okay. Exactly. It's Everett season. And then this stretch of the barrier-

gorgeous greens like melting away and the citizens of Adat and all looking up like, oh, and I love that, you know, it's not nightfall. They're not terrified and driven to fear and madness. It's like,

It just fills them with wonder. And, like, that's what Star Wars can do when it's at its best. So I just love that stretch. And then we get to see fucking B-Wings. I get to think of my guy, Quarry and Hera from Rebels. What more could I ask for? This was apparently, like, you know, a...

I defer to you and Star Wars nerd Dave on this, but this is, I guess, the debut of the B-Wings doing this precise thing in this precise way in live action, which is quite exciting. Wonderful stuff. I love that for all of you. What of Jod? Dude.

Wim calls out to him as the kids and the parents make their way into the elevator, and he calls them out to him, and Jod gives him a look. To me, that very much read as, like, that's not for me. Whatever it is that you're offering me, that's not for me. Here's Watson Ford on Jod's emotion at the end, because we get the, that's not for me, but then we get him slowly walking to the window. Jude Law, the absolute legend that you are, giving us...

I hope not our last look at Jod.

Watts says some people were like, oh, he's happy to finally have to drop this ruse. Or it's like, no, he's regretful because he's looking at this perfect family landscape and he's all alone. People saw every different variety. And Ford says it's funny because what I used to see was he gets this idea at the end. But it's been long enough now that I could finally watch it for what it was. And Watts says he's seen the entire plan that he has, probably the closest he's ever been to victory, just going down in flames. Yeah.

And I just love this. I rewatched it several times, just sort of marinating in the possibility of what it was that Jod was saying goodbye to or what he was opening himself up to. The moment that he drops the blaster, when Wim ignites the saber, he drops the blaster. There's a look on his face. Again, we, like Watson Ford, get to just puzzle through what we decide. But there's a look on his face that he looks to meet.

Because I'm mining for the gold that is a character arc desperately inside of John. Almost proud of Wim. And he drops the blaster. He didn't have to. He could have shot all of them. Yeah, go down in a blaze. Yeah. But he didn't. He let them go. So good guy? Hero? Yeah.

I think that I definitely don't, I genuinely did not come out of this like, Jod is a capital V villain. Yeah. And I think, like, again, every time in the episode, there's more than once that he's like, I don't want to ruin anything. I don't want to hurt anyone. And as we've already noted, he then puts people in mortal peril. And also, like, to be clear, if you didn't have them gunned down, he would still be hurting them and destroying something. Yeah.

I do think like he is trying to convince himself that he is not capable of a certain level of vile behavior and depravity and like needs to believe that that's true. And that in some way, when he drops that blaster, like it is and that that matters. And I think it's all of those things. It's like in that moment, it is conceding defeat. It's like, I've lost. I love what you're saying about the pride and whim. That's awesome. That makes me like that a lot. And like,

Also just the despair. It's like, I fucking lost again. Like, I found the vault and it didn't just have one credit in it. It had everything I thought I wanted and I don't get it again. And so, like, the moment when Wim calls to him from the wall run to the lift and the moment Wim calls Jod's name, like, was maybe my favorite moment of the episode. And then what we got to watch on Jod's face after. I love it for Wim because...

Like, this guy tried to kill you and to destroy your life multiple times, and you still... You offered him that spot with you. Yeah. Like, which is, like, kind of amazing. And there's, like, a...

there about like what it means coming of age story and like the capacity for forgiveness in your heart when you're young that I think people like really lose as they grow up in age and also just the practical aspect of Wim not wanting Jod to like die but from Jod's perspective I loved like reading those interviews with Ford and Watts and seeing how they really embraced all of the different interpretations because I felt like so many of those things felt like they were at play to me like you know

I really did because he's watching this, this reunited family run into the lift together, like feel the, the once again, his isolation of like, this is just not a thing I have. I am alone again. He's back down in the hall. Yeah, exactly. Right. It's a tower this time, but it's the same fucking thing. And like,

you know, the seeing the frigate pass by the observation window on fire, like the, you know, the engulfing of his ambition yet again. And then there was that look. He has like the little kind of like his eyes move and his face lifts and you're like,

what plan did Jod just hatch? And his capacity... Like, Jod is a con artist and a piece of shit. And also, he's a survivor. Yeah. He's an improviser and he's a survivor. And there's not a single fiber of my being that doubts that he makes it out of there and figures out some plan to try next. And I want to know what it is! Well, that's very much like a...

A lot of what you're saying here is very much as I was trying and we didn't get a chance to talk about it between seven and eight. But as I was trying to figure out, like, how is this all going to go? Yeah.

I thought I had... I was trying to go back to Treasure Island to be like, okay, how does it all end for Jim and Silver? And what can that inform? They're not doing a direct adaptation, obviously, but how could that inform a possibility of where this could go? The idea that Jim saves Silver despite Silver... Everything that Silver has done. Yeah. Because the story is about Jim's coming of age, you know? And so it's about what does that say about Jim that he...

save silver and and the fact that like everyone doesn't make it except for silver silver is captive but he's alive because he just that's what he does and so like that's that's a lot of what we got here uh at the end of all things in which we discover that the real treasure is quite literally the friends we made along the way the gold pours out of the crashed inner cinder

And KB's body slides down and she's okay. We're all okay. We did it. We did it. 33 is here, head in hand. Neil is reunited with his beloved rat pal. Thank God.

And then you already mentioned him, but here I'm going to mention him again. Wim goes full broom boy to me, looking up at the X-Wings. Yeah. Always thinking about the last Jedi, looking up at the ship that arrives. Several people have pointed out General Leia Organa could be on that ship, but they didn't show her to us. And I say thank you for not.

Truly. Truly. Bless you for not. I want to really help people, you know? Like if there's a danger or something. That's what we heard from Wim in episode one and his teacher fucking laughed at him and made him feel dumb. And when he's looking up, he's like thinking about that. I would cry to see Wim as a fighter pilot. Oh my God. That would just be incredible. Oh my God. Like just...

Just amazing. I really hope we get to see that at some point. It would be genuinely incredible. And it was genuinely incredible when we got the end credits and we went into Wim's stories and we got to see these beautiful, fully realized, high-def, gorgeous versions of all of these tales that Wim has spent his time reading. And then the fucking last one is the kids. Is them on the spaceship. I was like, stop it.

It's the same story, Mallory, and we're all in it. It's the same tale still. Oh, my God. Wait till our guy, Cathalos, gets to hear. He was like, if you survive, I'd love to hear the end of your story someday. I hope he gets to. I hope everyone gets to. Ma'am, that was just a really lovely little touch at the end. I thought that was great. It was brilliant. It's just another one of the great stories, the great tales. Okay.

Great ones never end. Okay, listen. This is the end of Skeletons Crew Season 1. I'm just going to say Season 1. For now. This is a season finale, and we will hope that we get more in the future. Thank you to Mallory Rubin. I missed you dearly. I missed you. I'm so sorry that we didn't get to do every single one of these episodes together, but we did our best.

We'll be back next week with more fun adventures, more fun, wacky adventures on the house of our feet. Thank you to our found family, Arjuna Rangpapal for everything he does. I couldn't possibly begin to list it. It's immeasurable, innumerable. Jomie Adiron, absolute king of social media. Steven Allman,

Our guy who not only does audio, but now video for us, Steven, the best. And John Richter, who holds all this video stuff together in a way that I just, you guys will never begin to appreciate properly. It's a lot that John does. And we thank him for it. We'll see you next week. Bye.