'Rings of Power’ Season 2, Episode 7 Deep Dive | House of R
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Hello and welcome to House of R. I'm Joanna Robinson. Joining me today, oh my gosh, she's my favorite person in the whole world. It's Mallory Rubin. Hello, Mr. Mouse.

Oh my god, perfect. Hello, we are here today to talk to you about The Rings of Power, Season 2, Episode 7, the penultimate episode. It's a battle episode, baby. We're here to talk all about it. This is the deep dive. That's what we do here. Before we get into that, though...

Let's just do our standard program reminders, which is like, listen, the Midnight Boys, pew, pew, they're covering Agatha and Penguin. Yeah. They're doing a lot over there. There's a lot going on in the Ring of Honor's feed. We are doing the Rings of Power and then Agatha the very next day. That is just something that we're doing with our lives that feels totally sane and normal. So listen, slow along. And Mallory, how can they do that? Thanks for asking. Yeah. Listen up. Follow the pod.

Follow the House of R on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Follow the Ringerverse on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts and follow the new Ringerverse YouTube channel because you can get full video episodes of House of R and the Midnight Boys on both that new YouTube channel and Spotify. You can watch us on Spotify. Correct. While you've got your phone in your hands, follow the Ringerverse on the social media platform of your choosing. We are on Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, and then...

You're already there ready to type. Send us an email. The inbox is open. Hobbitsanddragons at gmail.com. Um, the folks are sending dissertation. It's like that time of the season in the Rings of Power and people are sending just like very lengthy emails. And they're tremendous. And we won't be reading any of them in full today, but they're all tremendous. I read them all, so please continue to send them. Um,

And then spoiler stuff, we're obviously spoiling up through season two, episode seven of The Rings of Power. Nothing beyond that. Nothing about the finale. And we're presuming, you know, the basics of the Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit.

But there's some stuff that we're sort of going to keep in a separate section at the bottom. It's sort of like a speculation section, almost more than a spoiler section at this point. But we'll see you down there if you're feeling particularly skittish, like perhaps a little mouse. Okay, that's it. Let's go to the opening snapshot. This episode of...

of the rings of power was written by the showrunners themselves jd and patrick and directed by charlotte branstrom and i just want to call out something uh that we haven't mentioned this season every single episode this season is directed by a woman uh which is i think pretty cool in its own right but i think especially cool in something like this which is a big action heavy battle episode and like sometimes some people in the world think women can't do that but

It was Charlotte and she did it and it was very amazing. So, you know, I just think that's a cool thing that the Rings of Power has done. Love it. And more importantly, perhaps, maybe not as important. Did we like this episode, Mallory Rubin? How did you feel about episode seven?

I really, really, really liked this episode. This is one of my favorites of the season, which I was not necessarily expecting because the big battle episode of season one, episode six, was easily my least favorite episode of season one. And this was, I'll again reserve final judgment on power ranking the episodes until the season is complete and I get to revisit them. But this is

probably one of my two favorite episodes of the season along with episode five, I think we'll see if that holds up, but I think right now, and the reason is, uh, that it wasn't just a battle episode or it was the kind of battle episode more, more accurately that we really enjoy, which is one that is steeped in character, the dynamics and relationships and history between the characters, the emotion that is driving them to do a thing, uh,

We were able to spend so much time in this episode with the relationships that drive the show. We got to briefly see Elrond and Galadriel together again.

We had the most meaningful thing we had been waiting for all season, which was the reunion of Elrond and Sonny D, baby Durin himself. Oh my God. Which led to, and again, we've already issued our spoiler warning for the episode, so now we're just getting to it.

A sequence that shattered me and rocked me to my fucking core. She, like, fundamentally rewritten my DNA. Yes. Is how I would describe the end of this episode. Which is broken, despondent, Elrond.

On his knees in the muck as the couple dozen remaining elves bravely charge and he cannot bring himself to stand. He can only sit and repeat to himself, Durin, welcome. The Sauron...

Kella Brimbor stuff in this episode was quite a rich and meaty text that I can't wait to talk about. So the battle, even though it was a grand spectacle, felt to me really secondary to these moments that we got to weave in and out of with the characters we care deeply about. So I thought it was a very successful battle episode, a very successful penultimate episode for the season. I am, like Elrond, on my knees in tears confronting the fact that we only have one episode left.

Um, but I really, I really liked this episode. What, what did you think? Yeah, exactly. I, I was trying to think about, you know, is it too early in the episode to make a Thrones comp, but like, you know, thinking about all the battle episodes we've been through on Thrones and what we have liked and what we haven't. And I, I always come back to Blackwater is one of my favorite cutting back between Sansa and Cersei, uh, and the battle, that sort of stuff. Yes. Or Hardhome, which is actually just like only a battle just right at the end of the episode. Right. Um,

Yeah, so this idea of sort of leaving the action to check in with other characters. But I like, it's so special the way that this episode is structured in that we're not leaving to go to Numenor. And we're not leaving to go to Rune. We're up in Eregion or we're down in Khazad-dum or whatever Galadriel happens to be doing at the given moment in Adar's camp, etc. So we're all circling the battle. Yes.

And I thought that was extraordinary. A lot of great stuff for our guy Elrond. I like cried when Elrond and Doran got to share a scene together. I thought this was the scene between Celebrimbor and Galadriel I think is Galadriel's best scene in the entire season. And like rivals any of her scenes in season one, I think. It was just like a mode for Galadriel that I was... And I thought Morfeth was really just very much bringing it in that scene. So I love that a lot. And just a lot of rich...

to go along with, you know, trebuchets and hill trolls and ravagers and all the other stuff that's in this episode. And we haven't even mentioned what a tour de force it was for our guy Glug. Glug had a lot to do, but it was a lot of the same stuff. It's a lot of the same stuff. Glug looks uneasy and displeased is the thread of this episode. Okay, a few quick things before we start the deep dive.

Our listener John wrote in to let us know because we were asking sort of what a group of... What's the group name for bats? Yeah. We got a couple answers, but John put them all together, which was a group of bats can be called a colony, a cloud, or a cauldron. Oh my goodness. Which stuff...

Oh my goodness. That's what John wrote in the email, which stuff go. Thank you, John. Sensational. And then I was being kind of a snarky little brat last week when there's the line in last week's episode, does it show us things that will be or things that only might be? And I assumed that was just a mirror of Galadriel reference. So I sort of sarcastically said, does that remind you of anything? And

And then just a million of our listeners wrote in to let me know that that's a line from Charles Dickens' A Christmas Carol. So that's not going to be the last time on this pod I talk about how narrow some of my reference views are sometimes. Anyway, that's from A Christmas Carol. Actually, yeah, let's just get to it here. Are Ned Stark comps with Elendil? I stand by from last week. Absolutely. But I think what's true is that in the sequences in Thrones,

Ned Stark's story, Ned Stark in the prison, in the black cells, all of that is George R. R. Martin drawing from probably a similar text that J.D. and Patrick are drawing from. Our listener Patrick will run in to mention the 1954 play, A Man for All Seasons, which is about Thomas More, the Catholic martyr who stood up against Henry VIII. And he was like, it's Catholic, baby. It's Tolkien time to do Catholicism. But anyway, there's a scene in A Man for All Seasons where

where Thomas More languishing in prison, his daughter, Margaret comes to visit him. And there's a lot of similarities in this idea of like,

the whole man, there's this one line that I was sort of reading the scene to look at the comp a little closer. And there's one line that stuck out to me where Thomas Moore says, and you could sort of hear a Lendio might say this. Thomas Moore says, when a man takes an oath, he's holding his own self in his own hands like water. And if he opens his fingers, then he needn't hope to find himself again. Beautiful stuff. Uh, a wonderful play. Um,

and, uh, and, and I haven't seen the film, but, uh, a wonderful film, I'm sure as well, but that's a great shout from Patrick. And I'm sure was on JDM Patrick's mind. Uh, and everyone else is when they put that episode together. Should we deep dive? Let's do it. Let's deep dive. Yeah.

We start with our guy, Caleb Brembo, enjoying a sunny cup of tea, a calm moment. Birds chirping. In the eye of the storm. How do you feel about this beginning, Mallory Rubin? Um...

I thought, you know, should I perhaps, we're a French press household, so we love a coarse grind. You know, should I look into some French press coarse grind that is actually Sauron's goopy black blood, TM, in order to know this piece, even if it is a falsehood. Because this looked great. This looked like a lovely way to take a break during a hard work day. And so I knew concern and also I knew envy.

Yeah. Yeah. Couldn't be me. Never could be me. Um, sitting in the sunshine, uh, enjoying a cup of tea in the middle of the work day. Um, but I love this for caliber board, even though he is actually being tortured in a prison of his own mind. Um, um,

We get like a... We're forging. We're doing a forging montage. You love a forging montage. And then, yeah, as you pointed out, the grinds, the coarse grinds of the Mithril are actually goopy black Sauron blood, Tiam. And many of our listeners called this one. We got many, many emails over the last week saying, do you think your two big question marks, where did the Mithril come from and why did Sauron cut his hand open, might be related by looking

They are. So yeah, this is, I was just trying to like,

Because we see it spill out of the vial later, but when he's scooping it in his little spoon, I was just trying to envision that as just a glop of tar blood. It's like hot fudge that you're scooping on a Sunday. Yes. Wonderful stuff. Exactly. I think when Tolkien was envisioning the blood that runs to the veins of the Lord of Lies, he was like, it's hot fudge. It's a topping. Absolutely.

crucial element in the mix here, much like Hello, Mr. Mouse, which is a crucial element in the mix of this episode. And I want to say it as often as we can today because Kelleb Rembor, in an absolutely dismantled, decimated state throughout this episode, who was fun to get so many of the trailer shots that we had seen him looking in the mirror, him absolutely chokesaubing the fire, the rings that we tried to count in the trailer being dropped into the fire, all of it. Um,

Hello, Mr. Mouse just absolutely killed me. I couldn't have loved it more. And then Annatar walking in and like, have you fallen? And audiences everywhere saying only for you, baby girl. This is just such a delightful opening to this episode. I loved it. I feel like that's two episodes in a row then that Celebrimbor has like the line of the episode because last week it was, I am well. Fatigued. Just fatigued. Just fatigued. Hello, Mr. Mouse.

Oh, Kelly. What good old Brimby says, you know, he's on the floor. Sauron walks in. Have you fallen? And he says, the floor is hardly the place for the greatest of Elven smiths. Of course, we've heard this title for Celebrimbor since he was first introduced by Gil-galad in Linden in season one. But it is like, it is...

I think important. He says it sort of somewhat derisively here. And it is important that

It's the same phrase that Galadriel uses to sort of claim him. Yes. When the Elven guards later have our, you know, clapping it and want to clap him in irons and are saying, calling Annatar the Lord of Arraigan. They've already taken Lord of Arraigan from, from Celebrimbor. And she's like, this is the Lord of the Arraigan. This is the greatest of Elven smiths. And on this idea of like,

the influence of Sauron making you forget yourself, I thought that like use of identity was really important to bookend in this episode. Yes. I also thought it was notable that in addition to that reinforcing a key aspect of Kelly's identity, I'm struck by the way that I've been calling him Kelly and you've been calling him Brimby. This is really an ideal partnership. I couldn't tell you why in the notes today. I

I know, you went full Brimby. I went Brimbo too. Love it. I think I was thinking about Bilbo a lot. Absolutely loved it. But just the fact that Galadriel in this moment of confrontation is saying the same things that we've grown accustomed to hearing from Sauron is like striking. Oh, he's still in her head. I see, I see. Okay, so...

Caliburn Moore is saying like, oh my God, this has been the best time of my life. He sounds manic. Yes. Talking about this era of creation. He says these weeks. And I couldn't exactly tell if he meant this entire season since he first showed up in the rain with a wound on his back. Or if he thinks he's been in this sunny season.

mind prison for weeks forging these rings because surely it's only been hours. So what do you think he meant there? I think that given his later, I marked this candle and not an inch has burned.

I'm not going to really put a lot of stock in his assessment of time, period. Yes. But it is, from a meta perspective for us, you know, it is something we've been talking about across the season. How long is it taking characters to get from point A to point B? How much time has, in fact, passed? And so it is like, oh, wow, did something this consequential in the history of this fictional universe happen this quickly?

Quickly? In this version of it? Mirror High Tower Weeks. Mirror High Tower Weeks. Mirror High Tower Weeks. He also says, he talks about the rings sharing the, quote, secrets of their song. Yeah. Which really struck me and it made me, you know, there's a lot of

Talk inside of this episode, inside of this season in Kelli Brimbor's sad story about this, the hubris of trying to become the capital C creator. And this is something that Tolkien was very adamant. There's one creator, capital C creator. You could be a sub creator, but the idea of sort of like the secrets of their song and that idea of song and music and the creation of the universe and Luvatar, which we talked about at length in our Tolkien music episode, yeah.

That's sort of what pinged for me here when he said that particular phrase. I thought it was striking, too, that last week, you know, we had a great time talking about the earrings of men. Why do you still defy me, Stretch? But that is such a shift, right? From lamenting the fact that this

this communication, this understanding that he is seeking to forge is eluding him into, yeah, I'm just here to let them share the secrets of their song and they are singing. Boy, are they singing. That felt like, okay, we are feeling the past. Whatever the actual passage of time there is, we feel the progress in that distinction. Yeah, all it took was some black goopy hot fudge blood to make a bond. Now listen, this is a podcast full of bold ideas. Hmm.

we like to live dangerously. Sure. Should we let Sauron take a pass at our respective Google calendars? Because I have to say, once again, what Gellifrimbor is describing here sounds great to me. Yeah. Focus that I have not known in years when the world is still, but the ideas can flow freely. Genuinely, Sauron, come on in. You're invited. Let's give it a go. It felt a

it felt a lot to me. Okay. You know, so the bad version of this is, uh, sorry to keep bringing up Game of Thrones, but in the Thrones finale, when it's like, absolutely never have to apologize to me for bringing up Game of Thrones. Well, but what's more important than story felt like a sort of eye rolling thing for a writer to write. This feels very much like close to my heart, a thing for a writer to write. Like I can actually focus the whole world goes away and I'm just in the flow and everything's going

Everything's going well. Yeah. I feel like JD and Patrick put their whole hearts into that part. For sure. I also just genuinely, there were a lot of like really, I thought, sincerely heartbreaking moments for various characters across this episode. And this was one of them, obviously, for Celebrimbor because the fact that he is in this prison of mind control and like a part of him, as we will hear him voice, a part of him,

knows that something is wrong, that he needs to break free. He will, he's going to track the clues. He's going to break free inside of this very episode. And yet there's a part of him that is

full of appreciation for this prison that has allowed him to achieve the greatness that he sought. And like, that's why, you know, we love a character on an arc. I'm not sure if it's come up before on the pod, but we do have some here today to say, to reveal that we love a character on an arc. And so when you build toward later, something like, and we'll obviously talk about all, you know, we're going to go beat by beat chronologically through the episode, but when we get to like the severing of his own thumb, like,

The moment where that is his sacrifice and he is willing to... That's the end of the forging, I have to assume, right? Or at least an impact on the greatest of Elvin Smith's. But, like, the thing that is most important to him is no longer whether he can do something that would have made Feanor jealous. And, like, that's an incredible thing that we've built toward over the course of the season, but then continue to build toward inside of the episode. That's true sacrifice, right? In that moment. Absolutely. Yeah.

I also, what I love about Charlie, both the Charlies, but like Charlie Vickers' performance as Sauron is how, and we've mentioned this before, how he will infuse actual, what feels like real sentiment inside of something that Sauron says. So when Sauron says, it will be a sad occasion. I have so enjoyed our time together. Yeah.

I kind of believe him to a certain degree, you know? And so, and that's so much more interesting than a sarcastic or mustache twirling version of that just to infuse some pathos inside of this relationship, which to me has been the most, far and away the most successful thing of the season. Far and away the most important thing for them to nail. And they've just knocked it out of the park with Celebrimbor and Sauron. It's been extraordinary. Totally.

Had to crush it, amazingly. They have. I shouldn't say amazingly. It has been amazing to watch, but I'm not surprised that they've crushed it. The fact that that is rooted in truth, even though he is perfectly willing to sacrifice anybody ultimately who stands in his way, is because Celebrimbor represents not only a means to an end, but a thing that he, as we have heard articulated, couldn't achieve. And so he has...

is there jealousy? Is there envy? But there's, there's admiration. Yeah. Right? There is like the thing that he keeps deluding himself and seeking to delude other people into believing, which we hear him do in a frankly astonishing fashion in this episode. Just trying to build a peaceful, better world. Why won't you all let me? Just trying to heal. Just trying to heal most middle earth. Just trying to heal everyone. Just trying to perfect it. Create a perfect peace. Just perfect it. Okay.

This is part of what... Like, Celebrimbor is a part of what allows him to achieve that. And he is learning, right? Like, he did seem pretty happy smithing in Numenor. And so to learn...

and study and soak up this knowledge. Even like we hear Durin elsewhere in the episode, like stealing the seven secrets of smithing. Like he wants this knowledge. And so the admiration then is entwined with basically how everybody is a pawn fan. Fascinating. I love that. Um, Brimby says all things must end. And, uh, Sauron says a pity. Is it not? And I, um,

I regret to inform you, I have a little dissertation on the concept of pity in Tolkien. We're going to talk about that in a second. But I do, this idea of all things must end, I think is also important to talk about because that idea of all things must end stands in contrast to these things that we've been watching people try to

grasp a hold of be it the elves trying to sort of beat back the this like fading the the leaf rot in linden or uh or the dwarves hanging on to a mountain that is no longer hospitable to them uh livable possibly you know um and so i mean just because we know what happens in kazat dune but like

that need to hold on is unnatural, uh, in the world because all things end. That's that they matter because they end. Tolkien, one of his letters wrote that the main theme of middle of his whole entire middle earth endeavor was quote, fall mortality and the machine. Uh,

And he also wrote, quote, the mystery of the love of the world in the hearts of a race doomed to leave and seemingly lose it. The anguish in the hearts of the race doomed not to leave it until its whole evil aroused story is complete.

But it's evil aroused with a hyphen in the middle of it, just in case you wanted to jot that down somewhere. Thank you, Tolkien. Do you think that's actually how they officially pitch Strings of Power and specifically how Brandon Hotts are on Who Fucks? Yes. Evil aroused. Evil aroused. Galadriel will be evil aroused and so will the audience at home. It worked. All right. So this idea of pity, I was just really...

by the thematic use of pity inside of this episode. Obviously, it's something we've talked a lot because there is that line in both the book and the films that we love when Gandalf says it was pity that stayed Bilbo's hand when it came to punishing Gollum when he first discovered the ring and said the pity of Bilbo, quote, may rule the fate of many.

So that's like a very key concept. And Frodo says it again, once they throw the ring in the fires of Mount Doom, he's like, remember that thing that Gandalf said about pity and Gollum? Turns out it was true. So I picked up this book and did not read all of it because it's quite dense and long, but it's titled Pity, Power, and Tolkien's Ring by Thomas Hillman. It's very nerdy and very academic, but really, really fascinating, particularly as it pertains to this idea of like,

Tolkien's Catholicism and this idea of pity, like a pity that is not a condescending pity, but pity that is compassion for your fellow man. And so, and this idea and something that Tolkien says

did a lot when he was talking about pity, like in his letters and his various writings is he would pair it with the word mercy, pity and mercy, pity being the sort of like internal feeling mercy being the outward act that goes with that feeling. And I think it's really interesting. The case that this book makes that the idea of pity is,

in Tolkien's mind, that idea of compassion is the diametric opposite of whatever the ring represents. Right. Um, and in the first draft for Lord of the Rings, in that scene with Gandalf and Frodo, it didn't read, uh, you know, ruling the fate of many and all of that stuff that's in there now. It read as pity is what saved Bilbo from the ring. Um,

quote, he would not have had the ring. The ring would have had him at once. He might have become a wraith on the spot. So if he had not offered pity and mercy to Gollum, the ring would have taken him immediately versus Sméagol, of course, who does do a murder as soon as he gets the ring. He's just sort of like, murder town, USA, time to go. So the point that Hellman makes here, which I think is so fascinating, is this idea that like,

this is a quote directly from the book. He says, if pity won't rule the fate of many, the rings will, for that is what they were made to do. That idea of rule. Is it pity that will rule the fate of many? Or is it the one ring that will rule the fate of many? I just think that that is a really, really fascinating thought and something that it made me think about because the,

The through line of pity in this episode, Sauron says it here, it's said a couple times elsewhere, but the action is really through Galadriel as she relates to Adar and Galadriel as she relates to Celebrimbor, all three of which have this experience as former Sauron-aholics.

essentially. And it got me thinking about like... Much like us. Yes. No, we're not in recovery yet. I know we're still under the influence. But what I think is interesting is like rings of power, we've got the nine, we've got the seven, we've got the three, we don't have the one yet. The one ring is not...

a thing yet in this world. And so I think what the showrunners are doing, what the writers are doing is, and maybe this is an obvious conclusion, but Sauron is the One Ring in this case. And so the corrosive effect that he has on people, and we've made this comp sort of loosely before, but the corrosive effect that he has on someone like Galadriel or Adar or Celebrimbor is the same as the corrosive effect the Ring has on Frodo or Isildur. So like,

All the ring bearers in the books, Isildur, Frodo, Bilbo, Smeagol, all talk about the first thing they note about the ring is how beautiful it is. Perfect, fair and pure, bright and beautiful. And so...

I don't think that it's a coincidence that it's hot Sauron who fucks at all, because like that idea of, of the beauty is, is what Adar says, the beauty of the season. He says, I saw it, his servant's face, Sauron's face, and it was beautiful. Looks great. Right. Jacques Loudon. What a beautiful face. Thank you so much for sharing. So I just think this like,

The ring bearers, Isildur, Smeagol, Bilbo, Frodo, and Galadriel, Adar, and Celebrimbor, and maybe Merdani if she had made it through this episode, RIP. Brutal. Yeah, we're going to talk about that. It puts them all in a fellowship of a kind, right? They've all experienced something that other people can't understand. And the way that Adar talked about

to Galadriel in last week's episode when they were talking about what it's like after Sauron, right? And he says, for a while, he even makes you believe that his powers become yours. Irresistible power that makes every desire to fulfill it seem inevitable. An ocean of color against which everything else feels forever thereafter. And Galadriel says, a dull gray. Right.

How can we not think of Frodo and Frodo, not just sort of naked in the dark, that passage that I read in a previous episode, but this idea of there's no going back, right? There's no real going back. Though I may come to the Shire, it will not seem the same, for I shall not be the same. I am wounded with knife, sting, and tooth, and long burden. Where shall I find rest? And so...

What we have to think about when we think about what Galadriel finds in this episode when she connects with Adar in his camp and she watches him mourn his Uruk and she cries for him. And we were talking about this, you know, a bit earlier.

In the previous episode, contrasting her interactions with Adar last season to her interactions this season. Yeah. But that idea of pity, compassion for what you consider your enemy, mercy for your enemy. Right. Or for Celebrimbor, who's not our enemy, but certainly one could say, does Celebrimbor deserve punishment for what he let happen to Eregion?

In some versions of the story, but in, I think, Tolkien's world, he would say, is he not punished enough? Where is your mercy for someone like Hela Prymor? You know? Yeah, absolutely. Anything you want to say about this idea of pity and mercy? Oh, boy. That was beautiful. Wonderful. Loved every second of it. Could have listened for hours. You know, this is, like you said, a cornerstone idea, like a...

a foundational idea. I think to that, nothing lasts. Set up there, like listening to you talk about that, I was thinking of a lot of the larger Tolkien life, biographical details and nuggets that you've shared throughout the season. And like that, of course, part of what maybe a modern audience or listenership, readership, whatever the case may be, thinks of as

you know, the capacity to extend and prolong and save, which in many respects are great and our lives are better because of them, that there can be this dark underbelly of this insistence that like everything can always go on.

And, you know, we talk across a lot of different stories, whether it's, you know, we talked about this a couple weeks ago, like the Voldemort Palpatine-esque need for the unnatural eternal life, or whether it's something like

regular people in the good place getting to the point where they say, actually, like, if this goes on forever, then nothing means anything to me anymore. And like, you know, so I was thinking about a moment like, like Papa D King Duren in the seventh episode of season one, he, as a, it's interesting to like, through this context to think of him as a character who voices the

in his lecture to Sunny D, but the fire embraces the truth that all things must one day be consumed and fade away to ash, and how even in a moment where we were frustrated with him and rooting for and pulling for his son...

he has now then morphed into a character who has like maybe lost sight of this one bit of maybe. Maybe stum. I mean, listen, a murder who's free with your axe is just,

The guy is like, I control the sun. I don't know what you think, but the sun is mine to control. Exceedingly tough. And then in terms of the characterization and framing of

Anisar or Hot Sauron, who fucks Halbrand, as the stand-in for the ring, I think this feels like a very natural pathway toward, again, when we talk about spoiler warnings on the pod, we're like, we're not going to pretend that you don't know that Sauron forged just the one ring. That's the core of the world here. So, you know, thinking back to how...

Obviously, many people listening to the pod have read the books, but I think for a lot of people, their introduction to the story, it's the prologue, it's the Galadriel voiceover in the prologue in the Peter Jackson films, where this idea that the Dark Lord and the ring are the same is hammered into our heads like this alloy that Kjell Brimbor is beating into the rings, right? Yes.

And into this ring, he poured his cruelty, his malice, and his will to dominate all life. Well, let's keep that in our minds as we watch Kell of Brimbor ladle his blood into the nine and think about then what still awaits with the one, right? How we're scaling and building. We've been tracking across the different rings of power sets. And then again, when Gandalf is talking in the movie,

no, Frodo, the spirit of Sauron endured. His life force is bound to the ring and the ring survived. And then later in that scene, they are one, the ring and the dark Lord. So like this feels again, like acknowledging in a way that we know what the end point of a thing is and helping us really like luxuriate in how we got to that

eventuality. And like on the pity front, I mean, I think everything you said was beautiful and wonderful and I love it. And like, I'm very interested to check out the, um, the texts that, that you have been thumbing through. I, one of the, obviously like the, the Gandalf Frodo pity sequence is the iconic, the iconic one, but it is fun to like,

you know, do the old... Word search. Yeah, do the old word search that we love to do. Yeah. And the frequency with which it recurs across all of the texts, but, like...

To your point, sometimes it is in these very pantheon-level entry passages about the choices that characters make and how pity plays a role in that. And sometimes it is really just a character looking at another character, observation and that compassion that moves them. And I always love then when we build from...

Gandalf's explanation to Frodo. And then Frodo's... In Two Towers, for now that I see him, I do pity him. Kind of like clarity that is building. How could Bilbo have felt this way? I don't understand now. I do understand. And then the gut punch...

of Sam seeing Frodo that way in Return of the King. Sam knew before he spoke that it was vain and that such words might do more harm than good, but in his pity, he could not keep silent. Then let me carry it a bit for you, master. He said, you know I would and gladly as long as I have any strength. Like just the fact that Frodo has moved into that position where he is the one

who others look at with pity because of what the ring has done to him, is just so harrowing. You make such good points here. And I think, I think that the, again, people might have come to this conclusion many, many episodes ago, but like, I think the revelation I'm feeling here is not like, not,

as much Sauron is the ring, but Adar and Galadriel and Celebrimbor are ring bearers that were passing Sauron around amongst characters like a piece of jewelry. And I think, especially in this episode, when, as you mentioned, Celebrimbor lops his own finger off, which is, of course, a Frodo, a thing that happens to Frodo, like that this is the price that Celebrimbor has to pay is the same price

amongst other things that Frodo has to pay. I think that coding is sort of unavoidable at this point. I love that. And then it makes us think of, because Bilbo, the great passage, the thing we talk about all the time, it's like how pity...

can lead you to strengths, right? How you can find in that pity, the ability to give that grace to somebody else that you might not otherwise have been capable of doing or inclined to do. But then the

in terms of how you're grouping that character set, which I love and find very stimulating, then we have to think about, because these are characters who we are seeing confront great challenges and trials, and in some circumstances, failure or peril. And so then it makes me think of how Gandalf invokes pity when he's offered the ring, because he thinks pity would be the downfall, right? And it's often presented as the boon, again, from Fellowship, do not tempt me, do

For I do not wish to become like the Dark Lord himself, yet the way of the ring to my heart is by pity. Pity for weakness and the desire of strength to do good do not tempt me. I dare not take it, not even to keep it safe unused. The wish to wield it would be too great for my strength. Oh, Gandalf.

The last thing I want to say on the... I love that. And thank you for your Gandalf impression. The last thing I want to say on the pity front is Tolkien often connects it with healing. And I think, you know, and obviously this is what Sauron says he wants to do to Middle-earth. But it is something that a character like Galadriel, who is, you know, Adar is not going to be in the Lord of the Rings. Celebrimbor is not in the Lord of the Rings, but Galadriel is. So this is the sort of like...

arc that we are maybe perhaps most invested in how does she go from this version to I'm most invested in Elrond's hair obviously the title hair um but uh

So this idea of healing and pity... So, like, at the end of Return of the King, when... In the scouring of the Shire, which Peter Jackson decided was not important enough to include in the movies, and Saruman survives to wreak havoc, that blight of industry on the Shire. Yeah. And, you know, when the hobbits come back to sort of unmask him and...

They go to kill him and Frodo's like, no, don't kill him. Right? Quote, he has fallen and his cure is beyond us, but I would still spare him in the hope that he might find it. He doesn't make it out because of Wormtongue. He dies anyway. But the point is, Frodo offers him pity. Frodo offers him mercy. And then the land begins to heal. The Shire is healed on the heels of this act of pity and mercy, which I think is really fascinating. So this is just something to track the...

this quality of pity. It is, as Mallory said, like a cornerstone concept. The book is fascinating. Again, it is very dense and very nerdy. And, but like this...

Person has thought so much about this and I really admire that. Okay. Let's go back to the evil arousal of Annatar and poor Mardonia. Gladly. Oh man. I would just like to admire the shot of Annatar walking unbothered with his like flat iron wig blowing in the breeze. And by breeze, I mean deathly fireballs raining down on a Reggie. And I just thought that slow-mo catwalk moment was incredible for him. Yeah.

And also genuinely laugh out loud funny to me as he's lying to them and saying that Celebrimbor refuses to permit a counterattack. And he says, he says the river will protect us, which was like so great because of course, as everyone surely recalls, Gil-Gallant actually said that. Two rivers and a wall. What could go wrong?

Totally fine. Oh, Gil. We get a little... We're thinking about Faramir a bit, of course, when Annatar says, you know, talks about Merdania proving her quality in the movie. It's Denethor sarcastically in the books. It's Sam earnestly talking about Faramir showing his quality. Okay. So the...

the river gets damned. I've been a brilliant move from at our, uh, all of the war stuff I think is actually really well done on this episode. Just like an inventive, fun, big set piece stuff to have happen. So he blows aside, uh, blows a hole in the side of the mountain to create an avalanche to dam up the river so that they could just walk across the Glenduin, I guess, into a Regian. One does not simply walk into a Regian, but I guess at our did. Um,

Oh, man. They took down that cliffside with a fucking quickness, man. A palm. A palm. Just a few catapults. Boom. Easy work. Charlie's face, Amatar's face, Sauron's face, when all this is happening, where he's just like,

Just like a little, like faintly troubled. A little quirk of the eyebrow of this like massive event that's happening. And then he does this thing that I found fascinating and I do not think is a mistake. He's talking to the, you know, the elf captain or whatever who shows up in this episode. And he's talking about what's happening in the river. And then he gives them a command. And his, it's like he lost track of the character. He slips the Annatar mask. He puts on the Commander Halbrand mask.

King of the Southlands voice. Steve, will you play this clip? Calibrim borrows more mistaken than we knew. Prepare for ground assault.

Not really. That is just, that is pure Hal Brand. I love it. Yeah. I love that he did that. It tracks, right? Because as we will see soon, like, forgot to put the ruby in the hammer, let the mouse stay on the loop. Like he's, Sauron is distracted. Stretched a little thin. He's got a lot that he's trying to control with his little hand gestures. A little blood sugar after all of the goop went into the nine. Who can say? Maybe he needs like an orange slice. I don't know. In case you were worried,

Arandir did make it. He did run all the way up the map of Middle-earth and made it in time for the battle. So congratulations. I did. I had a moment of like, I did have a real pang in my heart for him as he looked at the city under siege, because of course we should remember not only his personal history with Adar as the person who robbed him of Bronwyn, et cetera, and the happiness in his life. The only like kind touch that he had known, as we heard him say in season one, is the thrust. But like,

He's from Balerion. Like the destruction of an elven realm. This is going to hit like cut to the bone for him. And so just thinking of like what this must have called up for Erandir here was I thought that was effective just in the glance. I love it. I love it. Let's go to Khazad-dûm, shall we?

just shout out Deesa. My babe always looks good. Um, she and Mardonia deserve, uh, more than one dress, but they, alas, each of them only has one dress, which means they are be gowned even in action. And Deesa has that like badass thigh slit. So she's just sort of like thigh out a weapon at the ready, ready to defend the mines here as Narvi's like, guess what? Uh,

King Dern has lost the plot entirely, so we stand with you, Sunny D. We're Team Sunny D all the way. Oh, man. This was, you know, Merdania doesn't have need of a new dress in the future, but yeah, Disa, Disa.

Tisa does. Yeah. We can freshen up the wardrobe. She's looking great looking ready. She's a princess of Khazad-dum. Give her a second dress, you know? They were very focused in the shopping on like the mushrooms and the tuning crystals and everything else. So maybe that's the next trip to the market. Though I don't know. Some other stuff is going on here. There's a few things going on. Um...

really quickly okay i lost my entire mind of course when narvi's like there's an elf here and i was just like yes we knew it was coming from the trailer but still we were just like over the moon uh quick answer to our listener kyle who uh is asking how far is a reggae from kazadum i don't understand why it takes some people weeks to get certain places but durin and anantar bounce back and forth like there's a commuter train they're right next door

Aragion and Khazad-dûm are right next door to each other. So this is one of those travel time things that I'm like, this one makes sense. Yes. Not everything does, but that one definitely does. Mallory, please describe for me what it was like, the shot of Elrond in front of the friendship tree and the look over the shoulder that we got here.

I honestly just broke down in tears. I did. I was moved to tears a few different times in this episode, but this was the first. And the way that... First of all, just the look on Durin's face when he realizes that Elrond is there, who Narvi is talking about. And then when he opens the chambers to his private quarters and finds him there framed in front of...

the light of the friendship tree, which, of course, like, Elrond gave him, and it makes us think of their long history together and how, in moments when they're... This was very on my mind, and it's particularly on a rewatch. Durin will come! Like...

When their relationship was tested, when Durin spent years and years and years, like, Elrond forgot about me. Yes, waiting for him. He still tended that sapling as it bloomed and grew, and he nurtured it because of what it represents to him, which is not only, like, the light of the elves, which is, of course, what has to be on Elrond's mind, I think, staring at this. Like, Durin...

helped me last time. His father didn't want him to, and he did it. He made the choice. The Mithril healed Blight. He'll do it again. And for Durin, it's like, this is the embodiment of the everlasting nature of their bond, which can only, no matter how often it is challenged, grow. And so they were like, please let that still be true, right? Durin will come. The music, like the scoring of this scene was gorgeous. Swooning's a perfect...

perfect description and like Elrond my heart sings to see you old friend it's so like not even in like a shipping way just like it's just so romantic the way he's shot the way that Robert like Robert R. Romero looks over his shoulder yeah um the way it's lit the music it's just this like this moment that they made us wait seven episodes for it's a very brief scene um but such a powerful depth of feeling between them

I loved it. I loved it. Some battle action stuff that we can sort of yada yada over. I just think it looks great. And the orcs looks very... It does look convincingly like there are a lot of orcs there. And that sometimes... Rings of Power sometimes bumps up against this. I think because a lot of their scenes are set outside. So when it's like...

12 Numenoreans on a rocky outcrop or like 12 elves on the Clift of Linden. You're like, how many people are here really? But the orcs, the way they shot this battle, the way that Charlotte Bransome and her DP shot this battle, it felt full.

It felt full of orcs and it felt full of like real people in makeup orcs, not like CGI orcs. So I thought it was incredible. Yeah, absolutely. The Ravager, not quite as impressive as Grand. Whatever it could be though, you know? Do you want to say that? Yeah. You know, do you want to say that? This season on Naughty Yotta Island. When we were new, they spoiled me. They even gave me a phone. But then it's like I didn't exist.

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But yeah, I agree. It felt like a very full camp. And so when Adar's like, you can't possibly hope to beat me and contend with my numbers. You're not like, wait, what are you talking about? You're like, is he right? You know? You might be. And obviously like building toward that final stand when it's again, it's like 12. So it's like 29 elves or something. Very few. Very few. Durin, I need your help.

Oh my god. Devastating. Truly. Thanks to General Mouse and Candle Stuff. Do you want to say hello, Mr. Mouse, again? Hello, Mr. Mouse. The only contender for equally hilarious moment was... Did Anna Tarr's reply here? Captivating. Captivating.

I just like died. Again, the Charlies are on one in this episode. Let's actually hear a little lengthier response from Sauron to Celebrimbor's breakdown here. You welcomed my instruction. You practically begged for it. Now a mouse scurries by and you fly to pieces. Mouse scurries by and you fly to pieces. Also, the candles aren't melting. I went out of my way to show you that.

It's not just Mr. Mouse. Yeah. The gas light's all the way up to 11. What he does here when he's like, I gave you exactly what you wanted. I'm holding back the storm. I am the one holding it down for you is great.

grade A top tier Jareth the Goblin King from the Labyrinth level of gaslighting. I did all of this for you. And it's just like tremendous work from Sauron. I loved it. But he's like, he's, you know, a mouse goes by, he says that. But like in short order, he is snarling. Prove your worth now. I want the nine. Like the mask is slipping. Yeah, absolutely. And to the slipping point,

the way he, it's like, um, he almost like blinks when he realizes I fucked up. Yeah. I made a mistake. I got sloppy. Like I let Mr. Mouse just cycle in and out. A little loop. Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and, you know, we've been trying to parse and assess what is like behind some of these facial expressions or the tears when he was like down in Mordor at the beginning of the season. And so this was a great moment of like,

he's not infallible, right? Like he makes mistakes and he has to kind of confront that in real time as he is orchestrating this great puppeteering act. So that was really fun. And then, yeah, again, like using the truth rather than the lies as he's gaslighting, you feel that again here because like, you welcomed my instruction, you practically begged for it. True. That's true. You know, Caleb Rimbaud couldn't wait for an excuse to not let somebody else, Gil Gallant or otherwise,

And give him instruction. Like he wanted to do something amazing. It's very similar to the rundown between Galadriel and Sauron at the end of last season, you know, when she was like... Absolutely. You wanted to leave Numenor. He's like, you wanted to leave Numenor. Like all, you know, all of that stuff. I begged you to let me be. Yeah, totally. This is all on you, you know? The other similarity to that scene, which is very top of mind watching this, is like the shift in the vocal register for...

Annatar Halbrand Sauron, like when he is... I have many names. Yeah, tell me your name. I've been awake since before the breaking of the first silence and that time I have had many names. Like when he is saying here, I am the one keeping the storm at bay. It's just this season's version of that moment. And I'm like, honestly, I hope we get another one in season three. Like I hope we keep having a character on the other end of that

and having to confront that reality. I have many names as like his great stuff. Favorite catchphrase. Um...

I love, there's a, there's a ton of great, uh, Annatar Sauron choreo in this episode. There's like the moves, you know, dodging Elven weapons later, dodging Feanor's hammer. I love that it's Feanor's hammer that like breaks the spell. I think that's beautiful. Um, but just like the casual dodge, just the casual twist of his body to avoid the hammer. Um,

you know, all of the hand stuff, all the magic hand stuff that he does. Uh, and so waiting for us to see him do some other magic hand stuff. Yeah. Of course. You love, of course. So like, no,

The fact that... Oh, man. Charlie Vickers has said that they were instructed that the elves never look down because they are so assured of their ethereal floatiness and how that drove him crazy because he was like, I almost tripped and died on my long elven robes as I was walking up and down the forge staircase all season. And if you watch it, it's so funny. He's just looking straight ahead but also a little bit like he's afraid that he's going to fall. It's pretty great. Hmm.

yeah we get the true creation requires sacrifice reveal uh sick twisted incredible uh charles edwards just absolutely leaving it all on the table with his hysterical reaction to what's happened to reagan what the forge actually looks like he seems a little actually more upset about his forge than he does the city if i have to be honest that's a note i have for kelly burke he really does but totally right he really does

This was so good. Yeah. We, again, because a lot of these little moments, like the, the, the shash, like shaking sobs were in the, in the trailer. Like sometimes when you actually see it, it doesn't, it doesn't quite match because you've anticipated it. But this was, I thought this was bliss watching him. The, the gasp when he sees himself in the mirror. And even, and the other thing is like, I loved,

It's a different version of the same thing we've talked about elsewhere in the, across the series so far, you know, when we're mixing in footage in the map during wandering day, just like these creative touches in the show. So the veil is lifting for him here, but it all, even though we have awareness that he does not possess as viewers to up to this point, even so the veil is pulled away for us as well. And like when we watch him go from outside back in and he's, he looks different to us too, right? Like coded and so it, and,

Bloody. Bleeding fairly freely from the head? Yes. Oh my God.

I mean, is that, did that happen when like part of the forge collapsed on him and he was just sort of like, hello, Mr. Mouse. He's like, I've been sustaining serious head injuries for, for weeks. Yeah. On the, on the topic of Gallop remora injuries, this is terrible, but this is the moment where I will reveal to you that

The second time in the episode where he walks outside, goes down a stairwell and is immediately blasted into a fall and like concussive state by a flaming boulder hitting him. Yeah. I was like cracking up. Not because my heart wasn't breaking for him, but I'm just like,

Kelly! What else? You can't let this... You just got the boulder to the stairwell thing like a few minutes ago. Can we get him a helmet? A helmet, maybe? All right, so when he goes outside, he's like ranting and raving and rambling to the elves about the fact that Annatar is Sauron. Love Sauron's face when he holds up his hand and the blood is red. He's like, oh, you mean this? What are you talking about? Unbelievable. And then...

She has the golden hair and the one dress goes over the ramparts and has a hideous end here. And I want to just pause really quickly. I don't want to read the whole email necessarily, but Emma wrote this incredible email about like sort of violence in Thrones versus violence in Rings of Power, violence in Tolkien. And the point she's making is that Tolkien bases his works on like courtly stories where every action has...

connected to justice or a lesson to impart, there's some morality attached to it. And so she starts listing things that happened in Lord of the Rings, like Denethor on fire or Boromir's sacrifice or Frodo being wounded by the ringwraiths or Theoden killed. These are all either acts of redemption and bravery or a punishment for a sin. And she's like, in contrast...

Death is waiting for you around every corner and it does not care what you've done or what your moral fiber is. It could hit you at a wedding. It could hit you when you least expect it. She was comparing Muriel's survival in the trial by Abyss

to Oberyn's death in Trial by Content. It's like, Miriel is virtuous, so the Valar are looking out for her, but there are no gods in Westeros looking out for the innocents in Game of Thrones. It was a brilliant, like, elaborate comp, and I really liked it. And at the end of it, she's like, and so P.S., the reason that Valandiel's death

sticks out is because it is not connected to a sin or this like redemptive act. It just feels like a nasty, brutal thronesy and death. And I would say the same for Mardonia here. It just feels a little like off to me. I don't like, again, I don't, I don't mean to like overstate the, the violence stuff this season, but I just think that it's, um, it's interesting. Cause it keeps striking like a, a sharp note for me. I don't know. Um, what do you, what do you think about how Mardonia goes out here?

I mean, brutal. I was thinking as well of our ongoing conversation about the level of violence in the show. And there were a few things in this episode that were exceedingly violent, which is... I don't know. I don't mean to sound like...

a bloodlust, like, crazed maniac here. But I think, to me, it feels, like, appropriately placed in this slice of the story because the fact that, like...

like merdania's death shouldn't have happened and didn't need to happen and is it actually only like you know when he says that she'll be duly rewarded earlier he's just like i'm basically waiting until i can kill you in a moment that like benefits me the most right and so it heightens that again sensation that everybody is just a pawn on his board yeah but like

What actually is the cost of what is happening here? The cost to the land and the cost to the people in it, like it can feel sometimes.

Very abstract. Now, I'm not saying you need to see a woman pushed to her death and axed in the face in order to feel the consequence of the creep of evil, but you're like, oh my god, if Sauron came to your realm and you were swept up in thrall to him...

people who used to look to you for protection could just... This could happen to them. This would happen to them. I think that's a fair case to make. I definitely do. And I think that, like...

I have complained in other battle, not, not just Thrones, but like other shows, battle episodes when no one dies. And I'm just sort of like, come on, this is a battle, like a character has to die. Here it's Merdonia and Tian, like a, another, uh, you know, an elf archer who we don't really know. There's not like a, I don't know. Anyway. Um,

That brings us to the other elves. They arrive, they make their ride. There are a ton of Helm's Deep comps throughout this episode. It is very Helm's Deep coded. Not just because we're trying to bring a wall down, but a bunch of other stuff. Ride out with me. Got to hold until the dawn. All that sort of stuff is in here. So when the elves arrive, even though they're already obviously elves in a reggae, but when the other elves arrive, when the Linden elves arrive,

uh, you know, we're, we're probably reminded of, uh,

what happens in the Peter Jackson films, not in the books, that Haldir and the Lothlorien elves arrive at Helm's Deep. How do you compare? That is such a score change. And they arrive and they're so regimented and so robotic. You're just sort of like, oh shit, the elves are here. That's what happens in Two Towers. How did you feel about sort of the cavalry, the literal cavalry arriving here in this moment?

I liked it. I think, like, so the closest comp inside of the series so far, I agree with you on Helm's Deep, would be, like, the Numenorean forces arriving when it seemed like all was lost in the Battle of the Southlands last season. And so I think in both of... And again, I was not a huge fan of that episode for various reasons, but, like...

The thing that both of that episode and this episode, the arrival of the cavalry have in common is that there are a lot of characters in the cavalry who we are deeply invested in, particularly here. Like, I don't know that you can match, actually, Elrond at the head of the surging, charging force for, like, other than Durin being right there next to him when this first happened, there would be nothing that we would be like, oh, my God. Like, the character who, like,

care about most is here to save the day. And you just know that something terrible, a

And I thought like riding toward this pointed arrowhead of light, riding toward the darkness and the shadow and the visual symbolism of that. And then the slow creep of the crate that we know they're keeping Galadriel in and the reveal and the blade against her neck and this reminder that we have in our head from episode four, promise me, Elrond, you will put opposing Sauron above all other considerations, even my life. Like,

Helm's Deep, the Battle of Helm's Deep is like cinema at its finest, I think, right? And it's not a very like rare opinion. This is like a Hall of Fame. It is not exactly a Hall of Fame battle episode, battle sequence in film. And so I don't think anything in this episode can compare. And I actually think it shouldn't necessarily try to. Like some of the stuff that feels too similar to me, it's like,

you know, that's the positive negative interference thing. Like try actually to give us something really different instead of something that is similar, but can't measure up. Yeah. Um, but this is an example of something that's more potent because like the people who are arriving, our characters were deeply invested in the comp there for help. Steven's the Gandalf arrival, obviously, which like then they're playing on our expectation that that is going to happen here. And then it doesn't. And it's like fucking devastating. Brutal. Um, Gil Gallant's here. Yes. His favorite color, which is gold. Uh,

He loves to wear gold. This is one critique I do have of sort of the battle dynamics. I bumped on this too. Gil shows up like, you know, Elrond and Gil are both at the head of the charge. Oh, and I guess forget everything I said about horses last week because the elves have a gajillion horses. So...

let's just pretend I never said that. But Gil is there and he's like, hey, I'm here. And then he's nowhere until he arrives later. And later when he arrives, Elrond says, this is no place for the king. And that, you know, that makes sense in some versions of battle, the king would stand, stay behind, you know, and then some heroic kings will be at the head of the charge. So it makes sense that Gil wouldn't be charging in. It's just,

weirdly shot because he's there at the front of the cavalry and you're like, I'm going to see Gil fuck a lot of people up. And then he's just gone for a long time. But I do want to note, he's here in his famous shining armor. We got to talk about the ballad of Gil Gallad, which we talked about on the Tolkien music episode. Of

quote, his sword was long. His Lance was keen. His shining helm afar was seen. The countless stars of heaven's field were mirrored in his silver shield. Now Gil's like actually gold's my color, but, um, we just want to note that the, his Lance that he carries here, uh,

is called egg egg loss. And I love, we love a weapon with a name. So I just want to shout out the name of that episode, but yeah, to your point, the, the arrowhead of light headed towards the dark and then the really sick looking, um, line of dark of the Uruk and the line of light of the elves, uh, you know, all centered around Galadriel and her little box, uh, was, was extraordinary. Um, um,

Adar says what we've all been thinking, which is like, hey, isn't Elrond a diplomat and not a general? But I think the idea... This is so good. This is so good. I think the idea is that all the generals went to Mordor. So Elrond, like Gil-gal is like, oops, we already sent all the commanders to Mordor. What can you do with these handful of elves and a thousand horses? Yes. I like to think also that in addition to that,

Gil, just like the co-host of House of R, really loves to commit to a bit. And so he's like, I made you commander to piss off Galadriel and make her feel like my punishment. And so like, you should probably just keep being the commander, huh? But I thought that Elrond's response...

to more suited to wielding a scroll than a sword, you've never seen me wield either. This is to me the stuff of legend. Genuinely. Like, I just... I...

My really like when I'm thinking back on the season, like I am lamenting that we didn't get more Elrond. Oh, yeah. Like I it just he is it is so good. It's just so good. The performance, the writing of the character, the relationships with various other crucial figures in the show. You've never seen me wield either like talk your shit Elrond.

I love this energy. This is fantastic. And he's about to show his diplomacy, his psychological warfare diplomacy skills in a second, which is great stuff from Elrond. Before he does that, Adar is trying to do the same thing he did to Galadriel, which is propose a fellowship, right? Uruk and elves together. Why not? And he tries to curry favor with Elrond by bringing up his foremother, his ancestor, Melian of the Valar. And I thought we might do a

mini little lore breakdown of Melian of the Valar. Um, and it goes a little something like this. Uh, basically she's, she's a, she's a Maiar. She's a, she's a spirit, like a holy being, a God. And, uh, she fell in love with a mortal. Have you heard that story before? Uh, so she and her husband, Fingal, have, uh,

a child called Luthien, who you might have heard of, who has sex with Beren, who you might have heard of, who have a child called Dior, who you might not have heard of, who with Nimloth, who is also the name of a tree, but is also an elf, have Elwing, who was Elrond's mom and also a bird. So that is the sort of lineage here. No nuts. No nuts.

Bingle and Melian through Luthien and Beren and Luthien down to Elwing, who is also a bird. So I think it's really interesting to just consider why this name drop is here. She's very important in the...

because through her, because Baron and Luthien, Elrond and Elros, all of those people, we're talking about elves and mortal men. We're talking about half-elven characters, et cetera. So her,

divine godly blood that does not look like a hot fudge sundae was passed down through the lines of elves and men. So from her comes the divine blood that runs through some of the lineage of men and some of the lineage of elves. And, um,

Fun fact about Amelion of the Valar and her husband Thingol. When he first saw her, he was like, this babe is so hot. He was struck dumb by her beauty and they just stood there

For some years, they just stood there and looked at each other for some years. Thingol was an elf and he was just sort of like, this babe has, quote, the light of Amon in her face. She is so, the trees grow up around them. They're just standing there. Thingol misses his ride to Valinor because he has met this hot goddess in a forest. Relatable content. Yeah. He misses his ride.

His loyal brother stays behind to look for him. His loyal brother is Círdan, who, as we mentioned at the beginning of the season, is forever staring off into the distance because his dumb brother

in love with a goddess and missed the boat. And then they all missed the boat. So that's how that all sort of moves back around. Now he's just shaven with a seashell. Yeah, you know. And not making his way into the bulk of the episodes of this season of television. It's a tough come down. And we would like to see more of Cure Den next season as well, please.

I think, I think a reason, another reason to just shout her out is, uh, she was gifted with foresight of war. Shout out Melina, the valor. Uh, she was gifted with foresight of war, similar to sort of Elrond, this like, I see the bad things coming and nobody is listening to me, uh, vibe this season. Um,

She and her husband, along with dwarves, built a fortress that held back the dark forces. So that idea of working with dwarves, fellowship, et cetera. And they created this kingdom, Doriath, which she protected. It's called the Girdle of Melian. They protected this whole realm. And it's similar to what Elrond will do in Rivendell, protect Rivendell. What Galadriel will do in Lothlorien, protect. Wrap their arms around this space forever.

with the power that they possess and shield it from harm. And that all comes from his ancestor, Melian, who was very hot and sang like a nightingale. So yeah, great stuff. Well, I love that Adar complimented, like you got her looks. Yeah, you're pretty hot. Just like I would stand in a forest and stare at you for years if I could.

Okay, what does Elrond do to Adar here, you know, without scroll or sword in hand? Mallory Rubin. So a quick just note on the... When I was saying a few minutes ago, like, there was something about the violence in this episode that really struck me. It was Elrond and how often he said incredibly violent things. That was just, like, I found...

like deeply impactful. Interesting. You know, even just the death to our foes nature of the charge. Battle cry, yeah. And then here, like not before you have painted the sands of the Glandoine black with the blood of your kin. I wouldn't have blinked hearing Galadriel say that to Adar in the shed last season. You know, that's not a geographically proximate place for her to have said that exact thing, but you know what I mean? Yeah. Um,

But I was like, Elrond, wow. And then the, I thought, most intense one was later when the Uruk horrifyingly slices the throat of Elrond's horse and Elrond goes over to him, stabs him and says, Die. Die. And then catapults him into a wall. Yeah. That was just harrowing. And then, of course, that all builds toward

Adar, with the mic drop at the end of the episode, have you forgotten your rumul never make war in anger? And so, like, even though that's stitching together four moments from across the episode, like, I wanted to note it here because I think as we... We are inclined as Elrond superfans and admirers to tout his political savvy, right? And his ability to, like, read a room and maneuver through a situation, all of which I think is...

on display here, as well as some very complicated emotions that we'll talk about momentarily.

he's driven by his rage here. He's driven by like something that is maybe, that is deeply human, but also I think maybe uglier than he would want to be guiding him. And so that is just like, I thought that was very rich across the episode. And I think that that sort of like this idea, it reminds me a lot of, sorry to make a Star Trek comp, but it reminds me a lot of like,

who is half Vulcan. This is half, he's half Elven. And so Spock, when we talk about Spock and we talk about his rage, his emotions, his anger that other Vulcans don't have because they are sort of like serene and calm. So this idea taunting him a bit about his more human emotions, when we have seen from the very beginning of season one, Elrond put in a box because he is half Elven. He is not full-blown Elven. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

In terms of what he does. Yeah. He's like, are you prepared to spend their lives so freely? Are they? And then he makes meaningful eye contact with Glug. Glug. They look at all the orcs. They mutter. Glug, very engaged. He's on task. He's locked in. He's paying attention. Active listening. Yes, active listening. I would say unclear if it's less active viewing in terms of the loud air.

end visible removal of the cloak brooch. The fastener pin that Elrond will place in Galadriel's hand, which Glug is definitely in his sight line when that happens. So I'm like, did he choose not to reveal it when he said he's not armed? Is he like biding his time because we're building toward Glug doing a coup? I thought it was...

He's definitely going to do a coup. He is one hair's breadth away from a coup in all of this episode. No doubt. He's doing a coup. It's just like, cut to glug looking uncertain is like a lot of this episode. But, Elle, I think the way that that was shot, it was meant to be like obvious to us, but stealthy that he takes the brooch off. I thought it was a little smooth gesture that he makes. It was like loudly clanking and echoing through the tent. I'm like, Elle,

Elrond, come on. I didn't hear the sound design. Maybe I was just like, I heard it and then my mind went blank when in the gamut to get the cloak brooch pin in her hand, he lays a smooch on Galadriel. Now, when we have been saying all season we would like characters to kiss, this is not what I meant. Okay, talk personally. Tell me what you thought of this.

I didn't love it, actually, personally. The kiss specifically or the whole interaction? I mean, on rewatch, I will say, when it first happened, I was like, what are we doing? On rewatch, because there were...

There are these very passionate, close friends. And it seems like occasionally the show is trying to flirt with something more between them. But I might talk in the spoiler section, I guess, about why I have some questions about that. I have a huge question and note as well. I have some questions about that. We can save that for there. So we'll save that for that. So here I was just sort of like, what's happening? I mean, I knew it was all part of the gambit, but I was like, what's happening?

But on rewatch, I did enjoy Morfeth Clark's Galadriel's face of like, okay, I guess it's one way to cause a distraction. Sure, Elrond. So I don't know. How did you react? Okay, I have the same... We'll save the exact thing we're talking about for Ring 2, but I had the same like, oh, wait,

I have a note. I have a note. Yeah. Response. Because if you don't have that knowledge and you don't have that note. Yeah. That like, you would be forgiven watching this and being like, they're in love. Like, you know, the way, especially the way that he has been this sort of like jealous boyfriend role all season, like jealous of her connection with, with Sauron. Totally. Sort of, you know, it's a little hard to talk about without saying the thing that we're saving for, for ring two, but like,

accounting for that thing um i don't know i okay i'll circle i'll hit the kiss first and then i'll talk about more broadly my feeling on this moment um ring two thing aside is it like impossible that elrond has feelings for gladriel no i mean i really think that's how robert arameo is playing it yeah and so like i don't know there's a part of me um

I sometimes think like our friends are always in love with each other, maybe, you know, like there's some of that. It's just like when you care that deeply about someone, like where is the line? But I think the kiss and the romantic nature of it aside, because that does not work for me given Ring 2 stuff. I found this moment overall to be awesome.

unbelievably emotional and moving. The tears in Elrond's eyes as he walked toward her. And then, like, this was actually, I mean, Elrond and Durin is kind of at a, it's just like, God tier. Yeah. But this was the thing that hit me next hardest.

when he whispered with tears in his eyes, forgive me, and she said, when? I thought that was incredible. Like, if they, take the kiss out of it. I know you need the kiss for cover, but just that moment. Yes, I agree. There is so much history and passion and pain wrapped up in three words whispered in their language to each other. And I like thinking too about

what, forgive me for what? And there are so many potential answers. And maybe they're different for him than they are for her. You know? Like, I think the least, like, the thing that's least at play there, honestly, is, like, for the fact that you might die. Because...

I think he trusts that she will use the brooch to escape and is very capable, but also he does know that she is actually, he doesn't want her to die, but she's ready. She wants to do. She is ready to. Yes. Yeah. Is it for not being able to win? Is it? I think it's for how I treated you all season. Yeah. And even going back further, like,

For when you insisted that Sauron was back, like saying, put up your sword and trying to convince you to get on that boat. And then yeah, everything, all of the horrible things, the like Tom Shiv on the balcony things that we have said to each other this season, like things when you were confronting losing somebody, you really are like, I don't know. And then the last thing that I loved about it was just like, it felt a little bit to me, the emotion that's playing between them.

And the thing that feels so... Forgive me. For where they are in time, for what is happening around them, this is a little bit there. I wish it need not have happened in my time. So do I. And so do all who live to see such times. This is that for them. They don't want to be doing this. They don't want this to be their life. I think the thing I'm bumping on... I agree with so much of what you just said. And I think...

something that Robert Aramayo has always been good at, even when he was playing Ned Stark, young Ned Stark on Game of Thrones, is just intensive emotional connections. Yes. And like conveying intensive connection with even the slightest material to work with. It's, it's a genius that he has. And so we felt, we feel so strongly about Elrond and Doran. I, you know, I,

I think those opening scenes with Elrond and Galadriel in season one are also like among my favorites as well. We talked about them in our, you know, in our preview pod. And so I, I like, I like all of that. I think that I guess I object to, and I think this is actually more Peter Jackson's fault than it is. Um, rings of power's fault. Yeah. As if we're holding all of that as canon, then Galadriel has a, like a romantic ish connection to Sauron, Gandalf and Elrond. Yeah.

Because that's what happens in The Hobbit. And I'm just like, find literally one other woman. It's kind of how I feel. Totally fair. It feels very Black Widow in the leaner days of the Avengers lineup to me. Totally.

Okay. So Elrond's like, I will ensure that Regan's walls hold for one more night. Again, quite Helm's deep coded to me. And then we get Durin's speech. And guess what, guys? We're going to hear the whole thing. I clipped the whole thing. Play it on loop for an hour. You can skip ahead if you're a coward. But why would you? But real ones will listen. Steve, hit it. Warriors of Khazad-Dum. At this moment.

The great tale of our age is being written and it falls to us to decide whether it'll end in tragedy or triumph. Sauron the Stoneheart, who stole the Seven Smithing Secrets from our forebears, has returned, forging rings to enslave us and all of Middle-earth.

The elves cannot defeat him, not without us. And Sauron knows this. He thinks by stoking our greed, he can turn our hearts to ash and sweep us from the field without a fight. But we are stronger than he knows. So there is something wrong.

All dwarves prize far more than riches. More even than this mountain we hold dear. Fight with me so all the world can see that dwarven loyalty is a force stronger than any sorcery. More powerful than any army. Deeper.

than the bones of the earth! Will you fight with her friends? Will you fight for Cossack's doom? I have no notes. One of the best things I've ever seen. This was so good. This is beautifully written. Yeah. An incredible speech. Owen Arthur...

just slays this absolutely murders this. I thought Peter Mullen speech as Papa D earlier this season was good. Now it with love and respect to Peter Mullen looks like absolute dog shit compared to this is just transcendent. Yeah. Just incredible. I loved every second of it. A couple of things. Yeah. A couple of things I want to note. Sarah on the stone heart who stole the seven smithing secrets from our forebears.

I think this is just, I've tried to figure out what he's talking about here. I have no other lore information for you. So hobbitsanddragons.gmail.com if you know something more than I do here. But perhaps he's just talking about the smithing that has gone on this season. The way that he says the elves cannot defeat him, not without us, the pride in his voice when he says that. Yes.

And then the thing that the elves, that the dwarves chant at the end, which is not just Kazatum, which is what they said to Papa D, they say Barukazad, which...

is in two towers. This is a Gimli moment. Quote, but a small dark figure that none had observed sprang out of the shadows and gave a hoarse shout, Baru Kazan! Kazan, I'm Menu! An axe swung and swept back. Two orcs fell headless. The rest...

Shout out Gimli, the goat. Baruch Hazan means axes of the dwarves. Axes of the dwarves, Baruch Hazan. So I loved all of that. And then also, obviously we're not talking about hobbits here, but a theme that you love to talk about is the way in which your Dark Lords, your Voldemorts, your whoever's will underestimate people at their peril, will not pay attention to them. So...

what Doran is saying here is like, he thinks he's got us with this gold shit, but,

that's not going to stop us. And it just reminds me of the quotes, such as the course of D's that move the wheels of the world. Small hands do them because they must, while the eyes of the great are elsewhere. So this idea that like, I mean, I do think that Sauron is taking the dwarves into consideration. That's why the seven exists. That's why I'm pretty sure the Balrog, though stuff is that like, I think we're meant to think that, that like Sauron is,

the Balrog on from a distance. He's got a lot on his plate. No wonder Mr. Mouse is looping. But so obviously like he's, he's, he's accounting for them, but he's not accounting for how much Doran loves Elrond. Maybe, I don't know. It's just,

come. I don't know. I feel devastated, but I believe in this moment when Durin gives the speech. So, um, I'm, I'm putting a lot of faith still in, in Chekhov's dwarven tunnel that Galadriel calls out and uses in this episode coming into play in the finale. God, I hope. Um, I, I couldn't have loved this more. I think I had the same, like,

eat shit, Papa D, sit down. You're not allowed to speak anymore. Both because you've gone on a murder spree with your axe and are killing your own, but also because your son is clearly better at this than you. Reasons. And like, I think to that point about Sauron underestimating and seeing as a weakness what can ultimately be a source of strength or seeking to make a weakness a source, like what could be a source of strength, is just so satisfying to hear Durin

especially given like that he is a part of this friendship we hold so dear to hear him champion it here and like to see how good he is at this to see how great he is at this and the fact that he's better at it specifically because when Papadi is making his stump speech a couple episodes ago she's talking about

He's looking inward. Yeah. Right? What's happening here? What's happening in this place? What's our future? And so he's making the same mistake that Sauron is. And of course, part of that is what was already in there and part of that is what the ring is doing to him and weaponizing and amplifying that was already lying in wait. So you have Sauron seeking to isolate and divide. Celebrimbor alone in his tower. Merdania brought into an arm grasp, right? And then you have the counter, right?

And I love specifically thinking of this as something you can forge because we're in a story about forging rings, but you're forging fellowship too. So fellowship, like countering with dissent, with,

with isolation, by sowing mistrust. When Caleb Bremboer goes out there and is finally able to speak the truth to everybody around him, they think he's a babbling idiot whose mind is shattered even though everything that he's saying is real because they have been primed not to believe him, primed to think that he is basically beneath their respect at this point now. And so if you choose to forge fellowship, that can be stronger than

as we will see in a wonderful trilogy, than any ring you might forge. And like you pair that then with him invoking a very Sam-esque idea of like writing the tale of your time, participating in real time and something you know will be a part stitched into this great tapestry. This is real, like this is the stuff, Lionel. This is great. It's all the same story. I don't like it. Ugh.

Oh, the great ones never end. Okay. Will you fight with our friends? That's, I mean, it's just wonderful stuff. Okay. So we're just going to breeze past some battle stuff that happens. There's a painful at our glug exchange where again, stop me if you've heard this before, glug looks uncertain and fairly mutinous.

You told us you loved us. With all that is left of my heart, too much to let you become Sauron's slaves. I really feel for Adar in this episode. Yeah. I really also wanted Glug to be like, I wish you loved us enough to not let us become dead then. You're really becoming the thing that he's full Anakin, like Obi, like you're just becoming the

that you swore to destroy. Is loving us, putting us under the foot of a heel troll, is loving us letting him use us as a meat shield to fend off Arondeer's arrows. Um...

So Galadriel instigates what I would call like quite shoddy escape attempts from the camp. Her like one lock of blonde hair just falling out. I'm like, yes. The most canonically remarkable hair.

Oops. In the universe. Yeah. This is like real Sam and Frodo, you know, putting on their orc armor and just marching through Mordor and like winding up having to stage a fight to not get caught in line. Just like clanking in their oversized armor. Great stuff. But yeah, I,

Adar is doing this funereal rite in flames. They return to darkness, which I thought was like a really interesting sort of like counter of Gandalf's threat of go back to the shadows. You shall not pass. Turn!

Lay my wood on the stove. She's got tears in her eyes when she's watching him cry over his children. And I think that's a really powerful moment. I think to what you were saying earlier about the pity and the compassion and the linking and the uniting of these characters who are opposed, it's more tragic, ultimately, that it's one thing if you just never learn to see

the heart inside of somebody or to understand why they do the things they do or what is driving them. But the fact that they actually feel this pity, feel this empathy for each other, on some level understand that they are fighting a common enemy, but then still cannot find a path to true allegiance, it's much more devastating than if they had just been like, let's kill each other and stayed in that place that they were in in episode six last season. Um...

And I think something Rings of Power is really good at doing is twisting the knife. Just like it knows how to twist the knife emotionally. Arandu shows up to rescue her just to make it time. Just as Mallory had hoped he would. Oh, man.

Yeah. She says to him, there is a dearth of Elven heroes is nice. It would be a pity to lose another. And my brain, my, my eighties, nineties addled brain supplied the princess bride line. There's a shortage of perfect breasts in this world. It would be a pity to damage yours. So thanks William Goldman for that line. Fantastic. Shit is happening in cause of doom. A man, they're going to lose that beast.

On Balrogito Watch 2024, I think we're getting a Balrog in the finale. I hope so. And I would like to apologize to the people who were like, hey,

it wasn't the Watchers in the Water, Watcher in the Water. It was the Balrog. I think it probably was supposed to be the Balrog. All signs are pointing Balrogito away. So, um, here we go. Um, man, what do you want to, what do you want to say about, I mean, obviously, yeah, Doran is like, what about Elrond? What do I do about my best friend? Um,

And the I need your axe conflict for Durin that we sort of saw coming, right? Because his father has asked for it a couple times. At this point, it's like the whole kingdom is asking for his axe and he has already sworn it to Elrond. This is like take me instead stuff. I just can't bear to see Durin have to make a choice like this. It's not just friend or family, right? Because for Durin,

friendship is family. That is the heart of the character that we have spent two seasons with. Elrond is as much of a brother to me as if he'd been fired in my own mother's womb. That is what he said to his father. How dare you! In episode seven last season. He believes that with every ember of his being. Now, that means that we want him to go help Elrond. That is what we want.

But when he's like, Disa, is she okay? And Harvey's like, she sent me up here. I don't know. We're like, I've got a lot of blood in my eyes. I'm not sure. I'm soaked in blood from your dad doing a murder. Yeah.

We want him to go help Disa too. Yeah. We don't want to sacrifice Khazad-dum in order to go help Elrond. We want him to be able to somehow do a thing that feels impossible. We want him to be able to do both. We don't want him to have to

The fact that he is now in a very real moment of having to make a choice that has routinely by other characters been presented as a false choice. You got to pick one or them, like us or them, right? But for Durin, it's a real choice right now that he actually has to make. Absolutely gut-wrenching.

it's just a huge moment. And to think not only about the emotional toll for him and for Elrond, Durin will come, Durin will come, Durin will come. But what the consequences of a choice like this are. Will no one think of our emotional well-being? I think that's the real question. Will no one think of us at home watching Elrond in the mud? Thank you for saying this. I'll not forever change. And we'll never be the same again. So it's fine.

What do you want to say about this scene between Brimby and Annatar, who says he just wants to heal Middle-earth, you guys? I mean, we've heard this from... I don't know that we need to go that much into it because we've heard all of this from Sauron before. We've heard it from Adar talking about Sauron. The Morgoth tortured me stuff is canon, we knew, but is somewhat new. It's a little bit of a twist on...

sort of what it says in Silmarillion about Sauron just doing all the same evil. I mean, nothing is evil in the beginning is how this show starts. It's important to know how Sauron became Sauron. He wasn't always this way. He was once a godly smith. But...

there's just a real lack of responsibility taking from Sauron and what else can we expect from the Dark Lord himself. Yeah. It made me think back to, you know, not only like some of our favorite scenes, the log in episode six or the moment of the reveal in the finale, but then like at the beginning of this season, like,

Both something like him saying in the flashback, always after a defeat, the shadow takes another shape and grows again. And the way that he is... We can clock that this is something Sauron is always telling himself. Right? I can reinvent. I can take another pass. Get me a new wig. I've got a new plan and a new name.

And a new accent. I had a drink on a carriage and I'm no longer goop. I'm like incredibly, I've got all, look at this chest hair and these curls. It's wonderful. It's wonderful. But then how like that idea is both in harmony and in conflict with, I was thinking again of our guy, Big D, whose name still neither of us can pronounce from the first episode of this season. It's Dermid. Dermid. Dermid. Dermid. Dermid. Dermid. Dermid. Dermid. Dermid.

And that, like, I've done evil. What if tomorrow you have to choose it again? And how, like... And how he's like, that sounds exhausting. Yeah, he's like, the thing I'll choose again tomorrow...

is to tell myself that this was the right thing, not to actually do the right thing. This is so fascinating. And again, to like circle back to that pity idea when Celebrimbor says you really are the great deceiver, you can deceive even yourself. Yeah. You know, Celebrimbor has no reason to extend pity to Sauron who has ruined his beautiful forge among other things. But like...

he does I think he does in that moment he's just like you can deceive him in yourself you've just constructed a narrative where you're the victim and you're just trying to heal the world Morgoth wanted to destroy you want to perfect you're just a healer you're just a guy trying to heal middle earth with fascism it's fine just obey me and be my son I will be your slave I'll do anything for you um

Brimby tries to drop the rings in the fire, which we have, you know, we've been waiting for since the trailer. But the rings come out cold because this is what happens with one ring. We were...

primed for this at the beginning of the season when we had that sort of burst of frost when Sauron was killed-ish at the beginning of the season and we talked about this idea that in Tolkien evil is cold the one ring is cool to the touch of the fire and so are the nine and then Brimby chops his own thumb off to get out of the shackles and it's devastating his money maker this was tough

Whose will is the mightier? Is that... Would you put whose will is the mightier up against you've never seen me wield either? Which would you say is the sassier response from an elf? I'm still... I'm putting Elrond at the top there. That was an all-timer. Whereas I felt mostly just extreme life-altering desperation from Celebrimbor here. Albeit guiding clarity. Okay.

Okay, so he goes outside, gets blown up again, as you said. Brutal. Just take a look around, my guy. And he's getting apprehended. This one Galadriel shows up and she's like, that is Lord Celebrimbor. I will roll all the Rs to intimidate you and get you to back down.

And this is where he says, yeah, he says, part of me knew, part of me saw. I blinded myself to what he was. And she says, so did I. And it's just this incredible moment of fellowship between Celebrimbor and Galadriel. No one else can understand. I mean, maybe Merdania, but she's been thrown over the ramparts. So it's just Galadriel here to offer him understanding and sympathy and pity in this moment. Pity for each other. And then we get the speech that happens at the beginning of this podcast episode, which...

I felt like it was time was of the essence. And I, I felt like hell movers like, wait, I have a speech to make about light. Please pause in your place. City.

so that I could talk about the light. But it was a beautiful speech that I absolutely loved. Oh my God. And Charles Edwards delivered it beautifully. That was incredible to be like, you take them, you take them. It's got you. No, they're in a pouch. I put them in a pouch and everything. Go. And then he's like, let me talk about light first. Need some hustle here. Need some hustle when you're going down the stairs. Oh man, Kelly Brimbor.

So, yeah, I thought like the in terms of what glad the magnitude of what Galadriel is admitting there. I was thinking back to the second episode of this season when like she was saying, Sauron used me. Yeah.

And under his hand, I was played like a harp to a melody not of my choosing. But here's the difference, right? And Elrond's like, he plucked you. It wasn't direly of your choosing. Sauron looked inside you and plucked the very song of your soul note by note, making himself not to be exactly what you needed. He plucked the shit out of you, Galadriel. If only. Let's be clear. I still say, if only. If only. But like,

That's a big difference, right? In how she's framing it to Elrond and what she is letting out to Celebrimbor here. And like you're saying, it's because she sees on... They don't have the... I mean, yeah, they know each other. They're both kind of a big deal. They've spent time together, ill-advisedly forging the three, etc. But they don't have like

the emotional connection that Galadriel and Elrond have, but they are bound by this shared experience. And so like the way that the weight that you feel lift off of her when she says that out loud feels like a very important thing ahead of whatever comes next. I love that. Gal's got the nine. Yeah.

Erandir and Gil-galad and Elrond together take down this hill troll. It takes a village to take down a hill troll. I do want to shout out Elrond getting the opportunity to issue a trademark signature. Destroy it. In the thrust of battle. He got to rip off a destroy it. Great stuff. Can't wait to see that again in a new context. I will say, Erandir, you know, highs and lows this season, but like,

All the action stuff is killer in this episode. He's wonderful. Anytime he just sort of like twirls into frame and does stuff with his bow and arrow, it's actually just incredibly wonderful. Speaking of Aradir, at Arstazim, he goes down, he's still moving on the ground. First time through, I was like, is he dead? But he's still sort of wriggling around on the ground. So I'm not ready to pronounce him.

But Galadriel is the nine, but Adar has Nenya. Adar has her ring. And we'll see what he does with that next. I did enjoy Elrond's completely transparent attempt to be like, I didn't bring it. I wouldn't have brought it here. Shane, it can be so stupid as to walk this into your tent. I love it.

I gave it to Kiernan for safeguarding. I wanted him to like pull a hax and it's like, you know, you don't keep anything valuable in the safe. The safe is in the pool. I didn't bring it here. So closes with, um, uh,

Some music. How did you feel about the musical cue that closes this episode? To me, the episode ends with not the, I thought, frankly, jarring actual musical number. And instead it ends with the music that plucks the strings of my soul, which is Elrond repeating. Turin will come. Turin will come. Turin will come. Turin will come.

Turin will come. Oh my God. The look on Adar's face as he snatched Nenya and said, have you forgotten your Rimmel never make war and anger? This was the first time all season where I didn't think Adar looked hot and that felt deliberate. I was like, this is not for me. Also, lest we forget, Kiernan told us at the beginning of the season that Rimmel was a drunkard. So I just need you to know that when you take his word as gospel. Okay. Man. Wig watch.

Do you wear wigs? I just want to shout out Gil Gallad's battle wig. The waves, he didn't put it up. He left it flowing. And the waves were just like nice and must from all the killing. And so I just shout out that battle wig. It's great stuff. Any hair stuff you want to shout out?

I just think until we leave this mortal coil, we should find opportunities to mention to each other and our listeners that when Durin finally laid eyes on Elrond again, he mentioned his hair. Title hair. I mean, what a gift. It is a power gift. Wonderful. This is truly wonderful. This is just like, they're doing a Peggy, Sharon Carter thing.

thing. Galadriel is Elrond's mother-in-law. What is happening here? He's got to marry her kid. He's going to marry her daughter. Yeah. I mean, I don't think we're not going to see like her daughter isn't already born. We're not going to like see her be born in the course of, and if she does, it's going to be like a weird Jacob imprinting on Renesmee moment, I suppose. So yeah, Galadriel is his mother-in-law. So we have some questions, comments, and concerns about that.

Now, you know, if you're living as long as the elves live, maybe that just doesn't mean anything. Yeah. It's like, yeah, I fucked your mother once. For all. I fucked everyone. It's been millennia. Okay. You should have seen my hair. Uh, it was a tidal wave. It was very good. Before I grew it long and flat, I ironed it. Oh no. Okay. Um.

The checking in with Elrond's godly relative is interesting timing because he's about per canon. He's about to found River, not Riverdale, a terrible show. Rivendell, idyllic place. He gets straight from this battle to, to leading the elves to Rivendell. That's what happens like next. So finally time for me to build my, my Lego set. I love that.

Right. And then just some like listener email stuff to round out this episode. A lot of people are suggesting that perhaps the stranger, a.k.a. we're pretty sure Gandalf will get his wand, his staff from the tree in the middle of Storville that we spent a lot of time talking about in last week's episode. I love it. Okay. Yeah.

John wrote in to say, also, wouldn't it be nice in a very Sam type of way if seeds from this tree in store town were brought to the Shire and eventually became the party tree in the Shire?

Yeah. You love it. You love to see it. My heart! We got several emails attempting to please Gandalf in Middle-earth and Second Age without breaking canon, and I will maybe go through those in next week's episode. Not a lot of time for Gandalf in this episode. Or is he Gandalf? Who's to say? But...

But it's going to be tricky or they don't care. Either way, that's where we are. Canonically, and we mentioned this in this section a few weeks ago, Durin does come. The dwarves do come to rescue Elrond at the Battle of Eregion. So this is just a particularly brutal cliffhanger of, you know. Do you think they're going to show up at the top of next week's episode? Or like, how long are they going to make us wait?

Good question. I would prefer literally minute one. That would be my ideal outcome. What do you think? Durin has to walk up and see that Disa just has one sandaled foot on King Durin's throat. And she's like, I've got this handle. You go. Go see to your boyfriend. You gave a big speech. I heard there's a shuttle. You gave a huge speech. No backseas on that. Okay. Okay.

I love when there's like a popular theory going around and we get so many emails from random people about one theory or another. So the, is Gandalf's staff from the tree in Storville is one. Is Poppy Smeagol's ancestor? Because in the text, we got a lot of emails about this actually. And Lucas wrote in specifically to say, to put in a quote from the book, which says, um,

Talking about the stores and all of that, the most inquisitive and curious mind of that family was called Smeagol. His grandmother, desiring peace, expelled him from the family and turned him out of her whole phrasing. It was ruled by a grandmother of the folks stern and wise in old lore. So a lot of people are like, is Poppy the grandmother who turns Smeagol out of her? Out of her.

He fucking wrote it. Oh, God. It's not my fault. Okay, last but not least, we also got a ton of emails about this. So this is a popular theory going around as well, I guess. Is Kemen the mouth of Sauron? Not one of the ring ranks, but the mouth of Sauron. How would you feel if one of the most punchable mouths we've ever seen just gets sort of locked in for all of time? Yeah? Feels right. I agree.

I'm open to a number of unfortunate outcomes for and doomed fates for Kemen. Whatever we can do to make sure that guy has a bad time. He and his mom, his mom and we both agree that Kemen should come to ill. Okay.

That does it for season two, episode seven, and tremendous battle episode. Um, a really great episode of television. I thought I would be thinking about Jordan's speech for a really long time. I'll be thinking about Elrond in the mud for a really long time. And we'll be back next week for the finale. Um, no, I don't accept it. And I won't allow it. She's going to be like in the mud being like two more episodes will come.

Thanks to the whole entire Dwarven village. I don't know why I said Dwarven. You know, just like rousing speech. Many hands make light work. Thanks to Steve Allman.

for his work on the soundboards, production work on this episode. Thanks to Jomie and Deneron for his work on the social. Jomie is putting clips of us on Instagram, talking about all number of things that may be incorrect, like why there are no horses in Middle Earth. Arjuna Rangapal for his production work on this and all of our episodes. And thank you to the video team, which today is Stefano Sanchez, the editor, John Richter on video production, and T. Cruz on video production. Thank you to all of you.

And we will see you next week. Bye.