Hall of Fame: Tony Stark, Iron Man
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Yeah. The truth is... Greetings, and welcome to House of R. A Ringerverse podcast on the Ringer Podcast Network. I'm Mallory Rubin, and it is my absolute pleasure to invite you not only back to the mansion. My sweet dummy is waiting for us in the garage. But also...

to House of R's newish podcast feed, joining me today, telling me that a famous man once said, we create our own podcasts. It's New York Times bestselling author of MCU, The Reign of Marvel Studios, Joanna Robinson. I have a package here for Tony Stank. Sorry, Tony Stank here. Hello, Molly Rubin.

And also, what is up, bad babies? Hello. What's up, bad babies? What's up? Joe, Steve, Hammer needs a slot. But before we help him find one... Bad baby. I'm quick. That's one of the fastest bad babies out of the gate, I think. Feels right. It feels right for today's exercise. Some quick programming reminders here at the top. Over on the ringerverse. The Midnight Boys.

They'll be with you tomorrow, Wednesday, talking Shogun finale, the latest X-Men 97. Joe, while we are discussing finales of wonderful shows, is there anything you would like to tease about your coverage of Shogun over on the Prestige TV podcast? Oh my God. Thank you so much for asking. Rob Mahoney and I, Rob Mahoney, Mallory Rubin and I, you might know us from the big pick 1999 draft. Put your votes in for me. Thank you so much. For me. For me. Um,

But Rob and I covered Shogun all season on the Prestige feed. Had a great time. So our finale episode is already up, but on Wednesday, we'll have a super interview special with four of the writers from Shogun talking about episode nine and 10. So yeah, Prestige feed. What a time to be alive. Fabulous show. Fabulous podcast coverage. Thank you. Elsewhere on the ringer verse this week, pop back in on Friday. Button mash is talking knuckles.

Right. Yes. A TV show that exists. Correct. Thrilling stuff for the Knuckles Hive. Get hyped, Joe. And then over here in the House of R, it's double endgame anniversary TV.

week for us. We are doing this Tony Stark Iron Man Hall of Fame today, as we will explain more momentarily, because we wanted to and have wanted to for some time, but also because the five-year endgame anniversary felt like the perfect moment. And we couldn't just do Iron Man. We had to do Captain America 2. It felt right to induct both Tony and Steve into the House of our Hall of Fame in the same week. So come back on Friday for the cap.

pod. I am so excited to do both of these podcasts. I seriously can't wait. Joanna, how can the people follow along? Wow. What a thrilling question. I'm honored to answer it. Um, listen, follow the pod. Why not? Um,

Wherever you get your podcasts, why don't you just subscribe to House of R to Ring Reverse, and then you'll know everything that's going on. Follow us on social. We're on Twitter. We're on Instagram. We're on TikTok. We're on Facebook. We're all over the place. Hashtag SaveJoey'sJob. He doesn't need saving. He's doing a great job. And last but not least...

Why don't you email us hobbitsanddragons at gmail.com. Mallory and I have been marinating these Marvel movies the last couple of days. You know, we got, we got like a sprinkling of Tony thoughts from you guys, but I would love to hear all your caps, caps, all your cap thoughts for Friday when we, when we tackle Steve, not Steve Alma, but Steve Rogers, our guy, both guys. We love Steve's back to you.

So much caffeine this morning. Oh, man. I have not had enough, so this should be an interesting combo. Well, here we go. The last programming reminder, as always, is the friendly neighborhood spoiler warning. It is a sweeping one today, folks. It is a vast one.

It's the entire Marvel Cinematic Universe and also Marvel Comics canon. If Tony has ever appeared in a property or influenced or touched it in any way, it's something we might talk about today. I think it's safe to assume. We don't know what the other person is going to pick for our superlatives, as we'll explain more in a moment. But I think it is safe to say that every movie Tony Stark is in will come up in some capacity today. Yeah, I think so.

I think I did something from everything. I think that's true. I know which one you're not sure of for sure. I feel certain. We'll find out. We'll find out. Okay, Joe, you told me what we need as a plan of attack. I have a plan. Attack. Let's pod. I loved that. My dance or the music or both? Both. Welcome back.

To the House of R Hall of Fame, Tony Stark. When you think about the House of R Hall of Fame right now, which has just been Loki banging around by himself. Yeah. Do you think of it as I do? Like, Loki in his cell. Tony is going to go in there. Tossing things into the air alone. And then Cap's going to... It's just going to be the three of them banging around a cell together. It's not...

It's not like a very lofty idea of what a Hall of Fame should be where I'm like, put them in a box. There was an idea. Stark knows this. The House of R Hall of Fame. Yeah, and it's a box. I do love... You know, we didn't plan it this way. We always love the idea of starting with either Tony or Cap or Loki, but it is amazing and hilarious and very meta that we picked Loki first, ultimately, and he has been waiting alone this whole time and then will be joined by...

easily two of the least, the people he would like to see the most. Yeah, exactly. It's just absolutely wonderful. I love it. I thought you were going to ask, how do I see the like induction, uh,

commemoration going, you know, which like professional sport maybe is this like equivalent to? Do we have, are we giving out blazers? Do we have plaques? Are we asking everybody to pick a hat for the plaque? You know, I think this is something we should maybe workshop with Jomie and some of our designers and be ready for whatever the, you know. It's like the SNL five timers club where you get like a black velvet smoking jacket.

That would be wonderful. Yeah. It's made out of nanotech, though, in this case. Yeah. And it just has, like, an R embroidered in gold on it. Look. That sounds beautiful. Yeah. Gorgeous. And the stitching, if you look really closely, it says Bad Babies. Yeah. Beautiful. Okay. We solved it. I think we crushed that. Thanks. What is the House R of R Hall of Fame, Jo? Do you think everyone knows what that is after the one pod that we did, like, literal months ago? Should we just quickly refresh everybody on this franchise, which is...

It's kind of all right there in the name. We are inducting over time, adding room by room, wing by wing, our favorite characters, nerdverse icons into our Hall of Fame. And we are starting with character inductions so that we can do more.

One of the things that we love to do the most, which is a character study pod, right? Talk about an arc. Talk about the impact on a fictional universe that one figure has. Will we eventually do other things and induct standalone episodes or films or franchises into the whole? Who can say? We reserve the right at any point. But we're in a character study zone. Tony now. Cap next. As listeners of our podcast will know.

Paul Atreides. I just need determined date in the future. I just need you. Paul of fame people to know that if you think you've been waiting a long time for the Paul of fame episode, Tony was supposed to go on the hall of fame. Like Iron Man anniversary. Yeah. Half ago, something like anyway, here we are.

We love to play on really far out. Yeah. And the why now for Tony is, as we mentioned, this is a huge week, Joe. It has been half a decade since Avengers Endgame hit theaters, since we said goodbye to Tony Stark. Are you ready as a podcaster, as a human being in this world to confront the fact that Endgame was five years ago?

I'll say this because when we went on book tour and they, everyone kept asking us how long we had been working on the book. And we had to say like between four or five years, I've been reckoning with the idea that end game came out about four or five years ago. Um, but,

What soothes me in my hour of need is that in the middle of that, there was like a multi-year pandemic where time got all wibbly wobbly. So it's not, it hasn't been like really five years. There was a blip, as you know, and here we are on the other side of it. So, yeah. Yeah. Same for me. I've just lost time.

all capacity to sense, process, and measure the passage of time since COVID. It's utterly elusive to me. So you could tell me that Endgame came out like four months ago or 17 years ago, and I would probably believe either. But five years is a long time. That's no joke. We're going to spend another minute or two in the opening snapshot, but we want to keep this

very brief because when we get to our superlatives, we're going to structure this the same way we did the Loki pod, which is we have category driven superlatives inside of each of those. We will each be picking a Tony moment to reveal to each other in real time. As usual, it's a surprise. I don't know what you picked. Just one moment. You don't know what I picked. Just one single solitary moment under each category. Just one moment per category. Sometimes when we podcast together. Yeah. Yeah.

I will try to talk myself and or you and Steve into not really egregiously flouting the agreement. I honestly can't do that this time. I'm embarrassed and I'm ashamed.

I could not control myself. We have 15 superlatives coming. Yeah. And that was already when Mallory said this over, she's like, is it crazy to have 15 categories? And I was like, no, I'm sure it'll be fine. It'll be nice and zippy because we'll do one example per. Maybe it still won't be. That's not what happened. Well, you just said that. And the people who are listening to this look down at their podcasting device and they have seen the runtime with this. Anyway, that's true. They are armed with foreknowledge that we don't know.

It's okay. Here's what today is about. It's about a time heist of our own, in a way, Jo. It is about going back through those moments, our own little Endgame-esque scrapbook of history, right? Get the Pym Particles, baby. But Mallory said we don't need one Pym Particle. I don't have one per category. I got three Pym Particles per category. No, it's not that. It's not that bad. It's going to be great. Always. I'm excited. No.

I'm excited, genuinely. So because we have so many categories coming, because we're going to relive so many Tony moments inside of those categories, we want to keep the rest of this opening snapshot fairly brief. We don't want to tip our picks. We're going to hit a lot of the context of Tony Stark's arc and journey inside of the MCU, Robert Downey Jr.'s impact on this character in the MCU, what it meant to not only Marvel, the MCU, but Hollywood, cinema, everything.

Cinema. For Iron Man, the character, to pop the way that he did. We're going to talk about all that in context as we go. But just like very quickly, as a little appetizer, a little table setter, a little amuse-bouche, I would be remiss in my duty if I did not ask you, the best of MCU, the reign of Marvel Studios. So just like reflect for a minute on that MCU origin story, starting with Iron Man and how...

So shocking it was and remains that that was where we began this journey. But what would you like to just refresh people on on that front quickly? Yeah, I guess I'll just I mean, I do have some of those points to hit later in the category, so I will keep it snappy. But I will say that as many people know, Iron Man was not this like massive superhero star of Marvel Comics. He was like an established Marvel comic figure, but not the obvious choice of where to start.

the MCU journey, basically the toy tested really well with kids. That was a big part of Iron Man's appeal is that he's a very toyetic character. And the kids who had never heard of any of the superheroes were like, but this one's really fun to shoot with. So Marvel not having access to the X-Men or the Fantastic Four or Hulkish or Spider-Man, you know, started with

Tony Stark. Joanna, you combine...

the rights issues with people's love for merch. Yeah. And you get fucking movie magic. And you get Tony Stark. And then we should also say Robert Downey Jr., like, this was, you know, there were so many people, including my beloved Timothy Oliphant, who were, like, in the running for Tony Stark. But I would not trade, none of us, we would be idiots to trade Robert Downey Jr. for anyone else who was in the running to play Tony Stark because Downey being cast is,

It's like, I don't need to feed that man's ego. He already has one and an Oscar now to boot. But it is so fundamental to the MCU being as successful as it is. And not only that, but he sets the tone for her because the way that the first Iron Man was written, where they were sort of like...

Coming up with the scripts on the fly with Favreau and Downey and the screenwriters in the trailers on a daily basis. Downey's own tone is so strongly in the movie. His improv is so strongly in the movie. And then that just dictates the sort of...

snappy, zippy, snarky tone of the rest of the MCU. It like comes from the singular mind of Robert Downey Jr. Again, not too inflated and already inflated ego. And so like that's, I mean, it's just, but it's just a fact of how much this one person mattered, this character and this actor mattered to MCU. And as you said, Hollywood at large, um,

And then just beyond that sort of like the stuff from my book stuff, I do want to say that like this idea of Tony Stark, I'm so excited to talk about Tony. I'm so excited to talk about Cap. The...

the gift we were given by the MCU of an 11 year character arc is just astounding. Just like absolutely astounding. Like not like even most of your long running television shows didn't give us something like this incredibly emotionally satisfying. It's longer than a lot of like relationships we have with actual people in our lives. It's amazing. I'm very true. Very true. Unbelievable. Um,

I want to say that watching them all together, like watching all the Iron Man movies and each of the Avengers movies together as we did sort of in prep for this, and tracking the arc, what's really fun to track is...

because there were a few moments when Downey was sort of supposed to leave the franchise, like his contract was over, you would have these moments where the arc seemed like it was resolved. Like the end of Iron Man 3 is such a clear, like, Downey's contract is done. He's ready to go. They're like, we've tied a bow on this character. Feige's out there talking in the press. We don't need these suits. Yeah. Feige's out there in the press being like, we'll just treat it like James Bond. We'll find another actor. And the Downey's like, wait a minute. Bring me back. I'm coming back. Right? So...

In in from one point of view, that could be seem a little messy because they're like, oh, his arcs resolved. Oh, you know, like at the end of the Avengers is sort of resolved at the end. You know, like we sort of get these various resolutions actually. And like the end of Ultron, like there's a compound caps and charge. Tony's like kind of retired, all this sort of stuff like that.

What that winds up giving us is something that just feels very human, which is that growth is not a linear thing. It's cyclical. To quote the philosopher Ultron, you rise only to fall. Ultron's got some bars, man. He's got some bangers. It's messy. Being a human is messy, and Tony Stark is an especially messy human. It's what makes him such a juicy character to start with is what...

makes the Marvel ethos of our characters are flawed, and that's why we love them. Such an important part of who they are. So, and then just like, as we'll talk about today and again on Friday, the Tony-Steve sort of twin helix, twin cores, whatever you want to say of the MCU, this sort of like the way in which their stories cross back and forth across each other as their characters arc in one direction or another was not planned. Right.

But in retrospect, just looks so elegant and wonderful. So I'm so excited to talk to you more about Tony Stark. Mallory, what do you want to say? I don't mind tipping that I have a...

healthy and ample Cap Tony presence today, though I did attempt to keep myself in check by reminding myself that I need only wait three days to be able to pick more of those moments. I was trying not to go too Cap heavy because I was like, you don't want to scrape the barrel on Friday. Why the days? Until you can put the Google back, it'll be okay. To the downy point, it was not only...

a riot and a joy and a astonishingly emotional 11-year, decade-plus run. But to that charisma point and the tonal point, it is still...

Not only in real time felt like the secret sauce of the MCU, but it is still the measuring stick against which we are comparing everything that has followed in a way that like candidly, almost nothing has been able to match. And like the, the, the specter of Tony just looms so large. Yeah. Yeah. And so I agree with you. Like I always love, I love a lot of different versions of an MCU infinity saga rewatch. Like,

When I reread a book series, I'm, I just think because of my OCD, I'm so dogmatic about how I do it every time. But with the MCU, I actually like to mix it up. Like it's fun to watch a phase. It's fun to watch all three phases and do the whole thing. I always really love for the reasons that you said, a character specific rewatch though. And with Tony and Cap,

I also... Part of re-watching these movies, it was like, I just can't wait to do the same exercise for more of these characters. Like, the Thor arc is so riveting, etc. But to spend that time with Tony, I really agree with what you said. And it's part of what makes it so satisfying. Like, those...

The backslides and regressions, the fact that Tony is a character who we love and we believe in and who we root for and who we know will do anything to try to protect and save us, makes so many mistakes that his mistakes are as defining as his achievements is like part of why he's such an indelible figure to me and part of why I think he's so interesting to study and talk about. So I cannot wait.

To dive in. Do you have a favorite? I'm just curious. Do you have a favorite Iron Man comic? Like, is there one that stands out to you or has worked its way into your heart most fully? I mean, I don't know about work. Like, Tony on the page has never been, like, a character I've really latched to. And in fact, like, Tony on the screen...

Like, you know, Cap is my clear favorite. And I might even put like a couple other characters in front of Tony in terms of like where I emotionally connect. But in terms of importance to the MCU or something that like, you know, stirs up my storytelling brain, Tony is like unparalleled. And I think that...

So I will say that Demon in a Bottle, which is just like an absolutely iconic Tony Stark storyline. Great one. 1979, like this story, which deals with like alcohol addiction and abuse and all this sort of stuff. And again, like if you want to talk about- Trust, fear, paranoia. A flawed person, Tony Stark and Demon in a Bottle. And the fact that Demon in a Bottle is a story that-

All of the screenwriters who ever worked on Iron Man movies talked about, like, they kind of wanted to do, but they were working for Marvel. So they, you know, like Marvel, which eventually was Disney, so they couldn't. And then Iron Man 3, which is my favorite standalone Iron Man movie, is like, let's do demon in a bottle, but we'll make it suits instead of alcohol. You know what I mean? Like, it's just, it's such a clear path.

part of like lingering in the background of Tony's on-screen presence. You can feel demon in a bottle everywhere even though they never directly adapted it. Like the aspects of Iron Man 2 where Tony feels like he is slipping and it's out of control. Like it feels very present there. That certainly would be one of my picks as well. I really love the Tales of Suspense number 39 like

intro. It's so fun to go back to that after watching the first Iron Man and just the inspiration of the art, etc. I think my favorite is Extremis, which was the 05-06-06 arc reboot, like reset of the character. And you can really... It's a fascinating comic, but if you're an MCU fan and you go back to that...

obviously in addition to the direct corollary of like an extremist plot in Iron Man 3, you could just feel how influential that updating of Tony is for the rendering inside of the MCU. Okay, last thing before we dive into our categories, Joe. You've already kind of hit on this, but anything else you want to say about your relationship to the character? Like,

how it has evolved over time, any key markers along the way, anything else you want to call out there? Um, I will say that like, you know, in doing my, I didn't do my rewatch linear through character because I started with the two that I have rewatched the least, just cause I thought that was most important to start with in terms of refresher, which is Iron Man two and Ultron, which are two of like two of the movies that I don't love as much as I love some of the other movies. And, um,

It was so interesting revisiting those in the perspective of this because even knowing that they have their flaws, they have, there's so much fruit on the vine there in terms of Tony Stark as a character that it made me appreciate those movies much more than I have in a long time. And this whole exercise has made me appreciate Tony Stark as a character, which just seems so silly to say because like, obviously, it's not like he goes around underappreciated in general, but it just sort of made me

I don't know, just really marvel at what the writers had on their minds psychologically when attacking this character again and again. So, yeah. How about you, Mel? I love that. You love Tony. Love Tony? Yeah, me too. I love Tony as a character. I love the MCU's version of Tony. And I just think the...

Like, to me, the Downey, this is not a unique or rare opinion, but I just think that the Downey performance is, like, the stuff of legend. It's just incredible to me. I never tire of it, and it's...

I think really like deceptively nuanced and complex. And there's so much there that much like a great book, like when you move further into a journey with a character and then you go back, like you're, like you're saying, or you can always find something new there to appreciate and enjoy or some new perspective that helps you understand the figure better. When I, so Iron Man, the first Iron Man movie came out early May, 2008 and,

The week that I graduated college. So I always think of not just the beginning, like the dawn of the MCU and the dawn of the Infinity Saga, but with something associated with Tony in particular about just entering a new phase of my life. It was like the last movie that I saw with my college friends.

in college, like up at Carousel Center in Syracuse before heading to the Big Apple to try to like make it in the world and be an adult. And you did. You did make it in the world, Mallory Rubin. Still trying to figure out the adult part. But yeah, I just like associate Tony in the first Iron Man movie with this kind of pivot point in my life. And I think that's also in some ways like amplified my attentionalism.

attachment to it and affection for the character. So I'm really... I'm hyped to go through this day. Before we dive into this, Apurla, it's predictions for overlap. This is always a thing I enjoy. Do you think we'll have a ton of overlap? Do you think we'll have, like, next to none? What is your guess on this? Your smuggles are as you tried to rebrand them before we started recording. Bundles. Bundles. Yeah. Yeah. I mean...

Will I mention like runners up in certain categories and will those be smuggles? Sure. But in terms of clip selection, they're more bundles than smuggles. I did my best to, I think as I told you before we started recording, like zig a little on the zag. Like knowing that you are so good at just sort of driving into the heart of giving the people what they want. I was trying to add like a little bit more.

off-target variety. But honestly, there's also just some moments of Tony Stark that are... The archer actor and the shrapnel? There's some Tony Stark moments that are just so inevitable. Like, they're just so... You know, you just can't. So there's going to be plenty of overlap. Even if we pick them for different categories, I think there's going to be plenty of overlap. I'll be curious to see where that happens. Hey, Fidelity. How can I remember to invest every month?

With the Fidelity app, you can choose a schedule and set up recurring investments in stocks and ETFs. Oh, that sounds easier than I thought. You got this. Yeah, I do. Now, where did I put my keys? You will find them where you left them. Investing involves risk, including risk of loss. Fidelity Brokerage Services LLC, member NYSE SIPC. Should we dive in? Let's do it.

Steve, do some finger stretches to get ready to operate the soundboard. You got more clips coming than any other pod. Hydrate, stretch, do some breathing exercises. It's time to begin the Ironman Hall of Fame induction superlatives. First up, best needle drop associated with this character, Joanna. Oh, starting with me?

If you'd like. This is tough. And I really wanted to go with the Iron Man 3 one that starts with him saying Jarvis dropped my needle. But that's a Christmas jam and I didn't really feel like it was appropriate. I also almost picked that I'm blue from the flashback in Iron Man 3 because that's just like incredible as well. But you have to go classic. So Steve, will you please cue up the Led Zeppelin? Just kidding. Thanks.

I understood that reference. Thank you. I feel like you're driving me to court, Marshall. This is crazy. What did I do? I feel like you're going to pull over and snuff me. What, you're not allowed to talk? Hey, Forrest. We can talk, sir. Oh, I see. So it's personal. No, you intimidate them. Good God, you're a woman. I get that last part in just for Steve. Steve's favorite MCU moment. Steve's favorite line from the MCU. Lines.

It's what Tony says. God, you're a woman. Um...

Yeah, back in black, ACDC. It's got to be. And as I mentioned, it comes back again in Spider-Man Far From Home when Peter's building up his suit and he says his Led Zeppelin. Iconic. But yeah, this is just like, I associate this song forever with Tony Stark. Incredible character introduction. This is like our very first moment. He's like, you know,

calling someone for it you know he's like got nicknames going already you can hear um this reminds me of this this is not gonna be the last time i'm gonna think about jack shepherd on lost and christian shepherd on lost his dad certainly not um but i love that you're like listening to it you hear the the acdc and then you hear the tinkling of the glass in the uh the ice and the in like the whiskey glass which is the sound key for christian shepherd on lost and um

And you're just like already demoning in a bottle, essentially. So it's just, yeah, just wonderful. Perfect character introduction. Great pick. Let the record reflect that you smuggled first. You mentioned two things that you didn't pick. You smuggled first. I didn't have clips for that. It's true. Great pick.

I was hoping that this would happen. I was hoping that you would go early because I went late and I was hoping that we would end up with a needle drop bookend. Love it. And we have Steve. You don't need to do that.

because you're just holding the position. Wow, Steve extending the clip to include the paper football with Nebula. I have no notes. Iconic, honestly. The blue meanie strikes again. It's an incredible decision by Steve that I admire and respect.

Uh, I... This is perfect for you. Molly Rubin, who has all the taste of someone who went to Woodstock. I love it. I mean, yeah, of course I picked this. Sometimes when we do these superlatives or moments, I try really hard to distribute, if not evenly, at least reasonably across properties, across character pairings. Mm-hmm.

I don't mind revealing in advance to you that I did not do that today. I have like a very I do have stuff from I think every movie I'll have to scan back at the end. But I have a heavy, heavy endgame presence. I mean, it was impossible not to. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Let's let's lean into that as the reason because it's the hook. Great stuff. So anyway, here we are. We have our needle drop book and I love it. How perfect.

When I experienced this moment for the first time, Endgame opens. We are with Clint Barton at the Barton homestead, and we watch once again somebody witness their loved ones vanish. As they should for suggesting mayo could go on a hot dog. Which I... Yes, exactly. It's on the heels of the true horror in the history of the MCU. Mayo gate. And then this...

begins to play over the opening Marvel wordmark. And I was like shaking in my seat. I just felt, I really felt the intensity of the moment, like of what was coming to an end. And I thought the song choice was so perfect. Not only is this like transitional note, the lyrics, but that idea of Mr. Fantasy and Tony is our Mr. Fantasy in the MCU. And like what that song,

right? Like how he made us all happy so many times over the course of that decade plus together. And it just felt perfect to me. And like every time I rewatch the movie, still all these years later, it like has that impact on me in a way that I'm kind of astounded by. Cause sometimes I think that,

initial emotional hit can vanish or recede a bit with time, but that has not happened with Dear Mr. Fantasy from Traffic. It just makes me want to weep every time. I think it's also such a smart pick because it works for Tony, but it also feels very much like a Guardian's needle drop and we're...

you know, at that point trained to expect something like that when we go to space and we're on the exterior of a spaceship, we're going to like, we're going to get a guardian's drop. And this is like, it, it could fit on a guardian soundtrack, but it fits very well for Tony too. So great, great pick. And that's the last time end game will come up today. Yep. That's it. That's the last time that sequence of that spaceship. Yeah. God. Yeah. Good point. Okay.

Time for superlative number two. The futurist is here. It's like my favorite Jeremy Renner line reading of all time. He knows what's best for you. He knows all. So funny. Coolest invention. It wouldn't be a Tony Stark celebration if we did not talk about the genius, the mechanic, the inventor. What is your selection here, Jo? I think there's only one answer. ♪

Shit? Shit. What are you doing up, little miss? Shit. Nope, we don't say that. Only Mommy says that word. She coined it. It belongs to her. Why? Because I got some important shit going on here. What do you think? No, I got something on my mind. I got something on my mind. Was it juice pops? It sure was. That's extortion. That's a word. What kind do you want? Great minds think alike. Juice pops. Exactly. It was on.

Tony Stark's. You think inventing time travel is impressive? Greatest creation was Morgan Stark. No, it's not. It's not Morgan. It's not Morgan, but maybe it's Morgan, but it's fucking time travel. Sweet Maguna. It's cracking time travel. I actually do have a smuggle here, but I'll save it just in case it's your actual answer. So I don't step on you, but I think it's cracking time travel. I don't know. What do you think? I mean.

It's tough to argue with this pick. Steve, can you play my pick for this one? Ultron. My fault. Just kidding. That's not my pick, but I couldn't help it. Good. You're funny. Ultron, my fault. It is my single favorite moment in the history of the MCU, so I had to get it in here somewhere. I had to, and what better way than making fun of it?

And I did. Okay, here's my actual pick. And what I love about this is the same thing that happened in our first superlative has happened here, but in reverse. We have another bookend, but this time I went early and you went late. Steve, let's hear mine. So it's the technology. William, here is the technology. I've asked you to simply make it smaller. Okay, sir, that's what we're trying to do. But honestly, it's impossible. Tony Stark was able to build this in a cave with a box of scraps. Well, I'm sorry.

I'm not Tony Stark. I just heard all the all the binge mode fans like pump their fists into the air. Technology. To me Obadiah Stane shouting Tony Stark was able to build this in a cave with a box of scraps is the Mona Lisa. Like this is the artistic work

rendering of our time. And it is not only an iconic line and an iconic performance. Also, let me pause for a minute to say, shout out William, this poor fucker who of course will return to our lives in, in Rome as part of the Beck hive. It was rebelled against Tony in large measure because of the stress of this, uh,

And I don't know how many more times Far From Home will come up today, so I will just use this opportunity to say, let us never forget, if we don't mention it elsewhere today, that Tony Stark, who I love and adore, left Edith the control for global weapons of mass destruction to a 15-year-old. Okay, back to my pick.

Um, I noticed a William, a William Easter egg that I, I don't think I've ever noticed, which is because William is played by Peter's Peter Billingsley, who is also a producer and who is, uh, the kid from Ralphie from a Christmas story. And then there's like a, I loved you in a Christmas story joke and Iron Man three. And I was like, I wonder if that was for Peter Billingsley. That was just like a little improv for Peter Billingsley, AKA William. Okay. Go ahead. Joanna talk about a connected universe. My goodness. Yeah. My goodness. Yes.

It's all coming together. Okay, so the Mark I, which is what Obadiah Stane is referencing here, of course, is, to be clear, not my favorite Iron Man suit and hardly the most notable Iron Man suit. Shout out Mark 50 and Nanotech now and always. Though it is obviously thrilling and a scintillating action movie moment when we watch Tony charge through that cave for the first time. Lumber.

through rock and human alike, but we just can't overstate the brilliance and import of that creation. He's building this in Tenring's captivity under the orders to recreate the Jericho. And I think like,

The fact that Stane is referring to Tony's most rudimentary suit in this fashion actually amplifies and heightens the achievement to me, right? Because they couldn't even match that. They couldn't match the thing that Tony did with a box of scraps in a cave. This is like the MCU launching altering reality. And it reminds us of truly Tony's, the rarity of his capacity, right?

And that like, this is our, you know, genius billionaire playboy philanthropist guy, but that the genius is more than a boast. Like it is a sincere and real thing. And that is why your selection of Tony soft time travel is also a great one. Just did it in mere seconds, much like running a 40 yard dash Joe. I just want to say in, in, in a nod to, um,

the Binge Mode fans, I did send an email to Steve this morning with all my clips that said Joanna Robinson was able to build these clips in a cave with a box of scraps. So, in honor. My runner up, my smuggle, if you will. Yeah.

Yeah, Ultron might be, sure, but Vision, who is so important to me emotionally, Tony, and Cap, and the Mind Stone, and Bruce built Vision. Thor got in on it. Just for Wanda. What I love, when you rewatch, as we should always do,

someday let's do a WandaVision track because like watching Wanda's face the first time she sees Vision she's like oh I'm gonna fuck that android 100% man the first time that Vision just phases through her bedroom wall with another person in the room there's real like wait you're supposed to we've talked about this do this when we're alone we've talked about this it's like between the hours of midnight of three stuff not in front of other people not in front of other people

Okay. Ready for superlative number three? Yes. This was hard. This was my hardest one. I struggled. This is my hardest one. Yeah. Okay. Interesting. Best battle moment. Okay. Let me just say, this is really, I don't know. This is really, really a difficult one, I guess because of there are so many options, but also it was just like,

What do I want to say that's meaningful? So I will tell you what I... I do have a smuggle. I will tell you what I picked. I know. Go to sleep. Go to sleep. Go to sleep. I think the Hulkbuster armor versus the Hulk counts as a battle scene, even though it's kind of just a fight scene. But we destroy the city while we're doing it. So...

I think we should honor the toyetic nature of Tony Stark, you know, and what could be more toyetic than the Hulkbuster armor. So, and then just the go to sleep, go to sleep, like the character moment inside of that is really fun too. So, yeah. This is a great pick. I love that. Shout out Veronica. I almost picked Hulkbuster elsewhere, but then did not and then felt

Super anxious and sad about it not being on my list. So I'm thrilled right now. Great stuff. Great stuff. I also really struggled with this in part because some of my picks for other categories perhaps unsurprisingly will involve things that Tony does inside of a battle or a fight, of course. Yeah.

And this one is related to a topic I will return to elsewhere, but also feels like it stands on its own. Steve, can you play my clip? Did you know? I didn't know it was him. Shut up. I just did you know. Yes.

Yeah, this is the thing. I had to get the slam in there. Neither of us picked, like, the Battle of New York or something like that. We picked these, like, sort of one-on-one character moments, which I think count. But I was, like, I was worried that I wasn't, like, fulfilling the prompt because I didn't pick, like, a big, like, in-the-middle 9,000 characters, like, churning around him moment. But I love this pick. It's a great one. The prompt is whatever we want it to be. Okay, great. I'll keep that in mind for Steve. It's our nanotech. It can morph for the need of the moment. Okay. So...

This is obviously Tony and Steve facing off in Captain America Civil War. And I think there are two shared entries inside of this, obviously, right? There's the airport fight, the group fight, and then there is the Siberia fight, the Tony-Steve-Bucky fight, and then ultimately Tony-Steve fight.

Is it weird? This was a question I asked myself to pick in a Ironman Hall of Fame podcast, a Tony Stark character study podcast, two fights, the airport in Siberia, where Tony loses, where Tony's side or Tony loses. But I think like that, it felt to me like just part of one of our favorite, favorite rules and favorite lenses through which to view any character

or fight or battle, which is what does it tell us about the character? What does it tell us about who this person is? So like if we start with the airport fight, so many reasons why that is an obviously just like awesome MC battle sequence, period. But a great Tony sequence, like there's the ferocity and the skill, of course. There's the strategy and the tactics that are on display. You know, just here's Peter Parker. Here's Spider-Man. That reveal is wonderful. There's the humor.

great Tony Zingers in this very intense stretch I love after Scott turns into Giant Man when Tony says, anybody on our side having any shocking and fantastic abilities they'd like to disclose? Or when Rhodey

When Rhodey asks how old Peter is after the Empire represented, I didn't carbon date him. It's just like the fact that Tony can be so unapologetically and utterly Tony in the most dire and grave and intense circumstances is part of what I love most about him. And that's so palpable there. But then, of course, there's the interpersonal motivation, right? Tony's guilt and Tony's fear shapes his stance on the Sokovia Accords.

That's what's driving him in the rift. Charlie Spencer, Sokovia, Ultron, all of it. I suspect that is a theme that will come up again today. The, the, the,

idea of like conviction, I think we, and also characters like Ultron, but we do it in a charming and endeared, endearing way, not a, not a rude way. Like Ultron, we use like the word righteousness to describe Captain America, not Tony Stark. But I do think you get that from Tony in this stretch. Like your judgment is skew, the utter conviction with which he stands behind what he believes to be true. Like,

I love the moment so much in the airport fight when Tony's not even in this exchange, but it's a Spider-Man Captain America exchange. And Cap says, did Stark tell you anything else? And Peter says that you're wrong. You think you're right. That makes you dangerous because Tony is just describing himself. And like, that's the richest text there is. The fact that Tony is wrong. The fact that we are, I mean, certainly the members of this zoom and this podcast right now are like team cap and

inside of Civil War just makes the Tony scenes more interesting and compelling to me ultimately. And then, of course, we build towards Siberia. And Tony, there's this brief moment, which is a pattern inside of this relationship of, we're good, man. Let's do this together after all. And then it just crumbles. That Zemo crumbles from within that's dead forever moment. Like the way that that hits us so hard, like,

He's my friend. So was I. It is one of the most agonizing moments in the history of the MCU to me. And it's also just an incredible fight sequence, the choreography and that stretch. Obviously, the repulsor beam going into the shield is like a beautiful comics visual ported over to the language of the screen. And it's Cat versus Tony. I mean, it's anguish-inducing but riveting. And that is a movie to me, Civil War, that

every time I revisit it, I like it more and more and think it's a richer text. I love Civil War. Yeah, me too. My smuggle, my almost pick, my runner-up, I will say, is from Iron Man 3. It's not like a very... It's a fight. It's not a battle, but like...

And it's Tony versus Brandt. And the reason that I put that in there is because Tony doesn't have his suit. What is Tony without his suit? I mean, we see that in Civil War, too. He's just got the Hugo Boss. But Tony without his suit and then winning anyway because he uses his science brain, his ingenuity, he's not going to win on Braun.

Though he's not, you know, Tony has some moves, but like, you know, he's not going to beat a super soldier juiced up on extremis. So like, you know, he has to use the microwave and, you know, ingenuity to get out of it. That's a great one. Yeah. Yeah. Runner up. I love it. Okay. Next, number four. Another almost impossible one. Impossible. Yeah. Impossible.

Are we going with funniest moment? Are we going with quippiest moment? What did we land on here? Some snark. Some snark from Stark. Some classic snark Stark.

Take it any way you'd like. Let's get some levity in here. What is your pick? Genuinely impossible. No one has absolutely miserable experience trying to narrow this down. No one has ever been funnier, quippier in their lives. I know. At one point, I thought about doing a montage of just all of Tony's nicknames. I really did think that I would just make you sit through that. Make me? Gladly. I would be thrilled. Do you have a favorite? Is it Point Break? Is it Reindeer Games? What's your favorite Tony nickname?

I actually am really partial to Blue Meanie for Nebula. I thought you were going to say Clench Up Like a Loss. Great one. Okay, but you didn't pick that. No, I picked one from Infinity War. Steve Lee, please.

Dude, you're embarrassing me in front of the wizards. I've said this about other things, but this is my favorite moment in the history of the MCU. I have this in another category. You literally just said that mere moments ago about... Don't care. I don't care. Okay, cool. Just so we know that that sentence means nothing. The...

It's one of my 105 favorite moments, Jo. We love this sequence. It'll come up again, this whole, like, in the fight with Strange and Wong and Banner and my guy Ebony Maw. But there's just something about the, I love Ebony Maw. I will not apologize. But my, it's the way that Tony keeps saying wizards. Every time he says wizards, like, there goes the wizard kid to, like, eat or, like, whatever it is. Like, it's just, like, so funny because it's, like,

Doctor Strange was such a... When they made Doctor Strange, it was sort of them pushing the envelope a little bit like, can audiences handle this? Are we ready to go, you know, cosmic in the sense or whatever? And...

audiences love Doctor Strange and so but for Tony to acknowledge like hey there are wizards now I guess in our reality as well as aliens you're embarrassing me in front of the wizards so funny so shout out to Bruce and his performance issues it happens it happens it's more common than you would think I love that line and that moment so much I I will force myself one day to actually power rank my favorite moments but that's that's high up it is great pick I'm thrilled

This was torture. Torture. This was torture. I'm pretty pleased with where I landed. Steve, can we hear my clip? Admit it. You need me. We're connected. What I need is for you to go home, be with your mom, keep your trap shut, guard the suit, and stay connected to the telephone. Because if I call, you better pick up. Okay? Can you feel that? We're done here. Move out of the way or I'm going to run you over. Bye, kid. I'm sorry, kid.

Oh. That is, of course, Tony and Harley, sweet little Harley in Iron Man 3. Tony mockingly saying, we're connected with the pouty lower lip as he peels away.

is so funny to me. I like crack up every time I watch this and I think it really captures, it's not only such a great portrait of Downey's comedic genius, but it's also

But I think this captures something truly essential about Tony Stark, which is he will be a dick to anyone, including a literal child, right? There is nobody who is above or beyond his withering snark. And I love that about him. I had a lot of other contenders. This was a category where I felt like

almost a responsibility to pick something from Iron Man 2 because I felt certain that would be the movie that was least represented across the list. And while it is also not my favorite MCU movie, I think ranks quite low. One of the things that I do enjoy about revisiting it is that

Tony is ripping off some, some bars. He has some really funny moments, especially in the first stretch of the film. I enjoy the, like the hammer in the hearing, like let the record reflect that I observed Mr. Hammer entering the chamber. And I am wondering if, and when any actual expert will also be in attendance kills me. It's so funny. Also, this was the rewatching Iron Man two, uh,

This was the first time that I had rewatched the Monaco Grand Prix stretch of Iron Man 2 since I had become an F1 obsessive. Yes. I have some.

some notes. Okay. Yes. Let me know. We might need to do a whole separate podcast for that. But of course, that is the stretch in which we get the issue. She did quite the spread on Tony last year and she wrote a story as well, which we can't get through the podcast without. The absolute slandering of Vanity Fair reporters in the Iron Man franchise. Oh my God. Can I just say, this is just not how it works.

Well, in Iron Man 1, when she walks up to him and she's like, I'm doing a profile on you, that's not how that works at all. That's not how you've secured your access in the past? No? No? You just walk up to someone being like, I'm already working on a profile of you. And then fuck them. That's not... What an insight into the journalistic practices in the MCU. And just in case, we could list funny Tony moments forever, but just in case we do not get another opportunity today, who knows, could come up to talk about

The very particular...

spiritual experience of watching Tony Stark meet the Guardians, meet Peter Quill. I would just like to say out loud on this podcast, you're from Earth. Not from Earth, I'm from Missouri. Yeah, that's on Earth, dipshit. Which I think is single-handedly responsible for the uptick in my usage of dipshit over the last six years. Can I have one from... I have one from Ultron. And since, again, Ultron is maybe one that's not going to get a lot of love. It's...

When they're looking at the photo of Strucker and he's dead. And Tony says he did a Banksy at the crime scene just for us. I love that stretch so much. Almost made it in, honestly. Following that amazing line with like, yeah, I know that war criminal. Their conventions. What a special Tony experience that is.

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From the humor to the heart, it's time for our fifth Superlive, Joanna. We have reworked this one slightly. We talked about doing most romantic moment and then we sort of evolved to most meaningful relationship moment.

This is one where I feel kind of bad because I'm pretty sure I'm stepping on something you have later, but you've already actually stepped on a couple of mine. So this is just going to happen to us on this list and that is fine. And by stepping on, I just mean double celebrating. So there we go. There we go. We pissed in the suit.

The repulsor beamed the watermelon. The celebration need never end. That water's filtered. You can drink it. It's nice that Dune is always present in our stories, Jo. Always. My steel suit and my Iron Man armor are full of piss.

Brolin is here with us no matter where we go. That's right. So this is most meaningful relationship moment is what we've decided to land on here. And yeah, sure. And this is what I have. Steve, please. This time travel thing that we're going to try and pull off tomorrow, it's got me scratching my head about the survivability of it all. That's the thing. And again, that's the hero gig. Part of the journey is the end.

What am I even tripping for? Everything's going to work out exactly the way it's supposed to. I love you, 3000. It's my favorite moment in the history of the MCU. See, that one I might believe. You are correct. I have this. I obviously have this elsewhere. But I love that you have this here. Let's hear why. Here's why. And, like, obviously, like, if you think romantic, which is sort of what this category was originally named, this is, like, a good Pepper opportunity. But I have Pepper elsewhere as well. So, um...

I wanted to put this in here, obviously an absolutely iconic, important Tony Stark moment. But I was thinking a lot as we watched this full cycle of

Tony, you know, you mentioned Harley. We've already mentioned Peter. Like, Tony in these, like, The Next Generation is an important facet of his character. Tony, as he reconciles with his issues with his own father, which we'll talk about again later on in this list. And this idea of, like, okay, let me just say broadly, like, you know, Mallory and I...

So our best friends are people with kids. We are not people with kids. We... Unless you count our cats, which we do. So like...

I do not subscribe to this belief that you are not a full person until you have a child, especially inside of something like Endgame where I'm still mad that Natasha went over the cliff instead of Clint. That being said, for a character profile like Tony Stark, someone who struggles with narcissism and ego and all of that, the idea of the ego death as it arrives when you become a parent and create this little life

that you are singularly responsible for is such a monumental moment for Tony Stark. And this moment is very... Spoiler alert, we have a most emotional moment later. It's probably where it is for Mal. It's definitely almost where it was for me, but then I stumble on something that actually makes me cry harder than this, even though this makes me cry. And so I put it here. And I just think...

Tony is dad. And it's wild when you rewatch Endgame.

He has like two scenes with her, essentially. They're perfect. And they're perfect and to... And then for us to feel the weight of what he's risking now. Because we've seen Tony struggle with the idea of making the sacrifice play a couple of times already in the franchise. You know, in the Battle of New York, you know, again and again, like, he's going to be the guy who's going to land on the line even though Steve originally told him that's not who he is. Like,

This is something that Tony has come and gone with. But how much more it means knowing that he doesn't get to spend, watch Morgan grow up is, I think, with love and respect to Pepper Potts, who I absolutely love, and I think Gwyneth is fantastic in this role, I think Tony and Morgan, this is the most meaningful relationship of his life. And that's why I'm putting it here under a category that I made you change the name of so that I could put this.

I respect the hustle. This is a fantastic pick. I will... I'll hold off on my commentary on this particular moment since I do have this coming elsewhere, but I love everything you just said. I think that's beautiful. I think I would only add...

Not that it's a competition, but she loves me 3000 and you were somewhere in the low 6 to 900 range. Do you care to comment that during that clip that I just heard we get a shot of Rhodey crying and canonically we're supposed to believe that perhaps that was a scroll sitting there?

Weeping his eyes out for Tony Stark. As you know, I don't believe that we necessarily as consumers have the luxury of deciding what is and is not canon. But for the purposes of this one exercise, today's podcast, not the MCU at large, but today's podcast, I will not be acknowledging secret innovation as canon. Thank you for the question. Okay.

A friend of mine who I was sort of texting back and forth with, he loves the MCU. I was asking him about that. He's like, oh, I'm sorry. I had Dr. Strange do a forgetting spell on me. I don't remember seeking a patient. Oh, man. That's a great picture. Absolutely beautiful. I am staying inside of this family unit, but with a different member. Steve? I know I said no more surprises, but I got to say I was really hoping to pull off one last one.

What it looks like. Why you know what it looks like. Don't feel bad about this. I mean, actually, if you grovel for a couple weeks and then move on with enormous guilt, I should probably lie down for a minute, caress my eyes. Please know, when I drift off, it'll be like every night lately. Fine. Totally fine. I got you. Oh. Oh.

This is perfect because this is my answer for the category where you have probably my pick. And I'm crying just listening to it. Look at that. Oh. Yeah, this is an intense one. This is absolutely heart-wrenching. And not just because Tony's going back to the line he used to make Pepper CEO. Joe, it's always been her. This is just an absolutely beautiful way to like...

recognize and conclude our time not only with an individual character but inside of a defining relationship. I did have a moment where I was like, okay, should I do something with Rhodey or Happy here? Because I don't have... They pop up inside of other moments of my list, but I don't have like...

roadie or happy specific picks even though they are very important people to Tony. Can I just apologize to Happy and say when I was rewatching Iron Man 3 and he's like at one point he's like my best friend's in a coma. I was like wait what are you I was like oh yeah Happy. Like I just forgot. Down Nappy playing on the screen. I was like what do you mean your best friend's in a coma? Oh yeah Happy. Happy's in a coma. Oh man. Tough one there. Tough one there for Happy. Sorry Happ. Sorry Happ. He'll recover. He'll recover and he'll get those cheeseburgers from Maguna.

Her dad liked cheeseburgers too, Joe. Oh my God. I'm going to be a mess then the rest of this pod. I had to go with Pepper here. I think it's not, it's not just the devotion and love that we feel from Tony in this moment, right? He activates his helmet. He's 21 days with the blue, the blue meanie barely clinging to life. Like this is it. If Carol doesn't show up to save them. And this is,

Like, from Tony's perspective, we can assume this is what he believes will be the final thing that he says, right? And this is who he, of course, chooses to say it to and what he chooses to say. And the thing that always strikes me in addition to just the raw emotion is the maturity and how impossible that would be for Tony without Pepper. Yeah.

And you think about their journey and like, we don't have time to recount every single step, but you go from like the deodorant list dance and still waiting for that drink to the strawberry misstep. And Joe, you know, he knew there was some sort of association. So it wasn't the right association. We know one of the things I love in that scene, actually not relevant to the exercising question, but it always makes me laugh when...

When Tony sees Pepper and Nat interacting and says, I thought you didn't get along. And Pepper says, no, that's not so. And Tony says, it's just me you don't care for. It just kills me every time. And then we go to the destruction of the suits, right? We've already kind of hit the question mark around that. The sexy bickering, the whispered flirtations in front of Coulson, the 12% of a moment, the breakup.

the reconciliation, the baby dream, the walk in the park, all of the moments along the way, including as Tony heads into space and infinity war, where we have either an attempt at a phone call or a failed connection or a connection that doesn't last long enough to say the thing that you want to say. And that idea of no more surprises. And like, of course then we build toward after Tony is back and they have a child and they create a life together and they build on the life that they made. And, um,

Tony saying when they're on the couch together, like I can't help everybody and Pepper saying it sort of seems like you can like how hard that would be to say to the person that you didn't want to live without. It's just it's amazing. Will you will you be able to rest? Yeah. The echo later. You can rest now. Yeah. As Scroll wrote, he stands and watches. I just simply refuse to accept it. I just can't. I can't allow it. I'm sorry. It's

stupidest thing that anyone has ever said. So stupid. Oh, Joanna, we will both talk about each of those moments and then more later today. In the meantime, let's move on to our sixth superlative, which is best advice for

given, or received. So this can be a pearl that Tony dispenses to another. It can be a little nugget that somebody gave to him that helped him along the way. What do you got here? I'm suspicious that your answer is something that I have later, but I will just tie myself up in knots thinking that way. So I'll just focus on myself and say this. Say this is a very important thing. Tony Stark

And Dr. Jensen were able to fill this in a cave. Do you? With the box of scraps? Okay, great. I have Jensen here. Wow. Twist. Don't waste it. Don't waste your life. Don't waste your life. Thrilled that we have the same pick here. I love this. Don't waste your life. Make this worth something. And I think, you know, you picking the Mark I is like the most important invention for

You touched on something that I would have said here. I will say here, which is like going back to that cave is so important. It's why you hear the hammer in the cave at the end of end game. It's just like such, this is where a scene that was almost cut from Iron Man, as you will read in my book, if you care to, but like the cave scene sequence is so important to this story, to this character. And the Tony start coming out of this experience, a changed man,

who will then continue to change and evolve and backslide, et cetera, et cetera. But like Yinsen saying, don't waste your life. More than even just this suit, which makes him super, is what

motivates him to become a hero. Yes. And it is what drives everything going forward because it could have come out that cave with that suit and been like, I'm going to make a gajillion dollars, you know, selling this to the government. It could have been Justin Hammer. Yeah, it could have been Hammer. But no, it's Tony Stark and don't waste it. Don't waste your life. I love that we have the same pick here. This thrills me. This is one of, I'm not saying actually my favorite, but this is one of my favorite moments. I love this so much.

I when we did when we did binge-watch Marvel, every episode we at toward the end of the pod, we had a segment where we debated the winner of the movie and then people voted. And this was I I would have to go back and look. But my memory serves by a comfortable margin. The biggest ass kicking I took the entire time because I picked Jensen and Jason Jensen.

reasonably picked Tony Stark Iron Man of Yod of a mob. You put Jensen up against Tony. I love you. I stand by it. I stand by you. I pick Tony elsewhere. But I stand by the case, which is, yeah, when

When Tony Stark says, I am Iron Man at the end of the first movie, it launched a cinematic universe. And I am grateful for that. But that doesn't happen without this experience and this moment and this advice from Yinsen. It just doesn't. And I think the conversations that they had before that, leading up to that moment, about legacy, about the impact you make on the world around you. Like, when Tony...

there are a lot of struggles to come inside of the span of the movie, including like confronting that the call is coming from inside the house idea. But the first thing Tony does when he gets back, other than eat cheeseburgers is go to a press conference and say like, I came to realize I have more to offer this world than just things to blow up. And Jensen, that's the gift that Jensen gave to him and us perspective. And, um,

The perspective not only about what you want, but what you want for other people and how those things can be connected and how you can reshape your legacy, how it's never too late to try. You just have to decide to. And that is an amazing thing. So I always love revisiting this and feeling the consequence of that instant. It's just incredible. Shout out, Jensen. Shout out, us. And then we move forward to Iron Man 3 and we watch Tony just completely blow him off at the party like he had alluded to. Tough one.

Well, I don't know if you know this, but we make our own demons. So, you know. Sure do. Sure do, Joe. Okay, next. Number seven. Genius, billionaire, playboy, philanthropist, cheerleader. This is the best team pride moment. Do we have the same one here too? This was my like, of the ones where I thought we might have overlap. I think this was the one I was most certain we would pick the same thing for, but we'll find out. What just happened?

Please tell me nobody kissed me. We won't. All right, hey. All right, good job, guys. Let's just not come in tomorrow. Let's just take a day. You ever tried shawarma? There's a shawarma joint about two blocks from here. I don't know what it is, but I want to try it. We're not finished yet. And then shawarma after.

Should we get to our one? Yeah. I'm starving right now. It's almost cruel to play at 1240 Pacific when we're both and certainly like, is it lunchtime yet? This is a great pick. I have, mine is from a similar stretch of the same film, but a different specific moment. So I think just when you see the word cheerleader and then you just have to think about Tony Wayne, like, yay, on the ground, like absolutely pancaked.

Onto the ground. Hey, all right. Good job, guys. Let's not come in tomorrow. Yeah. I don't know. I wanted to fit Shorma in there. So here we are. I love it. What's your answer? Fantastic. Okay. Mine also comes from a little film called The Avengers. Steve, can we hear it? What have I to fear? The Avengers. That's what we call ourselves. Sort of like a team. Earth's mightiest heroes type thing. Yes. I've met them. Yeah.

Takes us a while to get any traction, I'll give you that one. But let's do a head count here. Your brother, the demigod, a super soldier, a living legend who kind of lives up to the legend, a man with breathtaking anger management issues, a couple of master assassins, and you, big fella, you've managed to piss off every single one of them. That was the plan. Not a great plan. When they come, and they will, they'll come for you. I have an army. We have a hulk.

Oh, I thought the beast had wandered off. You're missing the point. There's no throne. There is no version of this where you come out on top. Maybe your army comes and maybe it's too much for us, but it's all on you. Because if we can't protect the earth, you can be damn well sure we'll avenge it. Hell yeah. That's who we are, right? The Avengers, not the pre-Avengers. Not the pre-Avengers. Oh. So we now, just to be keeping score at home, we now have something from every movie except Iron Man. Not you, Iron Man 2.

I'll help us. I'll help us. I have an Iron Man 2. Don't worry. The characters and two of our own in one scene together, Joanna. I mean, I had to pick it. I had to. I felt an obligation to myself. The current residents of the Hall of Fame. Wandering around a box together. So here's my favorite thing about the Avengers. We have a whole... Not the movie. The team. We have a whole... It is not...

when they are working together well. It is all of the struggles along the way. It's all of the moments of resistance, active or passive, to teaming up. It's all of the moments where once they have, they can't actually find a way to achieve the harmony that Ultron will say that they don't have. This speech from Tony, this proud boast from Tony, comes...

not that long after we have orders, we should follow them. Following's not really my style. And you're all about style, aren't you? Of the people in this room, which of us is A, wearing a Spangly outfit and B, not of use? Like, that's where Cap and Tony are earlier in the same film. And then this is where Tony is by the end of it. And like, Fury has to dip into

I still find this outrageous. Phil Coulson's mint trading cards into blood to try to cement this. It's not the lie. It's the desecration of the merch that bothers you, right? That's exactly right. I think the lie with Fury is assumed. You know, as we hear elsewhere, he's the spy. Yeah. But let's like, something has to be sacred in this life. And if it's not a vintage cap trading card, I don't know what it is. But,

To build from Tony... Iron Man, yeah. Tony Stark, no, right? Failing his Avengers personality profile screening. Yeah. To build from battling with Thor in the woods. Doth mother know? Yeah.

Where are the stripes? To build from secretly hacking into S.H.I.E.L.D.'s computers up on the helicarrier, to build on all of the strife with Tony and Cap that I have no doubt we will return to elsewhere in this podcast, to this inside of the same film and to have it work, to have it feel like earned and right is extraordinary to me and very satisfying. And I love this moment.

Sorry, I just want to yes and your mother know that wears her drapes and say Shakespeare in the Park is my favorite Tony Stark nickname. That's that's my favorite. Great pick. Great pick. Great one. Willie Shakes, like the professor. Always welcome. Always welcome. All right. The House of Art. OK, this is the next one. We know we have the same pick. There's just well, I think this was the one I think I picked slightly off of.

Anyway, what's the category? Oh, no, no. Same pairing. Just slightly. OK. Oh, OK. The next the next category. This is our eighth superlative top dick measuring contest. And when you were alluding earlier to some of these categories basically being reverse engineered to certain things that we wanted to talk about today, this is one of the ones that you were alluding to.

I believe we have the same pairing feature here. Yes, correct. Should we just say what the pairing is or should we just hear some of the clips? I have four clips for this. I'm sorry. This is one where I have four clips. Okay, why don't we just play all of your clips and probably one of them is also my clip. And why don't you just say who we're talking about here? It's obvious. Who are we talking about?

We're talking about Tony Stark and Stephen Strange. Steve? The point is, things change. Our oath to protect the Time Stone cannot change. And this stone may be the best chance we have against them. So conversely, it may also be his best chance against us. Well, if we don't do our jobs. What is your job exactly besides making balloon animals? Protecting your reality, douchebag. Where's your gun? I don't know. I've certainly been having a thing. There's no time for a thing. That's the thing right there. Let's go.

Dude, you're embarrassing me in front of the wizards. I'm sorry. Either I can't or he won't. Could end your friend's life in an instant. I gotta tell you, he's not really my friend. Saving his life is more of a professional courtesy.

Who just saved your match glass? Me. I seriously don't know how you fit your head into that helmet. Admit it. You should have ducked out when I told you to. I tried to bench you. You refused. Unlike everyone else in your life, I don't work for you. And due to that fact, we're now on a flying donut, billions of miles from Earth, with no backup. I'm backup. No, you're still away. The adults are talking. I'm sorry. I'm confused as to the relationship here. What is he, your ward? No. I'm Peter, by the way. Dr. Strange. Oh, you're using your made-up names. Um...

I'm Spider-Man then.

Oh my God. I'm glad you included that much peat in there. I had just like a little bit of peat, but I'm glad you put the rest in there. I think the last clip was also my pick, but all of them are magical. And that's just not even all of them that are great. When he slaps him with the cloak, when they're talking about how chalky start craving hazelnuts is, like any- It does sound chalky, that flavor. Oh, I love hazelnuts. In an ice cream?

Yeah. Hmm. Like if it's chocolate and hazelnut. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that sounds nice. Okay. Um, I think it sounds more interesting than burning fudge, but okay. Um, I've said this before and I'll say it again. My favorite mode of Stephen Strange is Stephen Strange plus Tony Stark. I think this is the best use of Stephen Strange, uh,

I was talking to a friend about this earlier this morning, and he said his favorite was Steven and Thor and Loki, which is good. That's awesome. But I think this is best. Tony is trying to measure his dick with anyone he ever meets, but this is the one. And something we've talked about when we talk about the way that they...

When they made Tony Stark in movie form, they changed him somewhat from the comic. And in doing so, made him closer in personality to Stephen Strange than he is in the comic. And so then when you add Stephen Strange to the mix, then you have just like, yeah, kind of to the same personality. And so just watching them just rub up against each other linguistically is incredible. And I love them so much. Strange and Tony. So good.

It's better than Star-Lord and Thor, but that is also great. All of the dick measuring that happens here at the end of the Infinity Saga is great. Yeah, like that's part of the magic of Infinity Wars we've talked about many times is that jolt of the

the new pairings and Tony and strangers, like, you know, top of the list. It's, it's absolutely like electric. It's just so funny. And like, not just two guys who are accustomed to being the smartest one in the room, right. To having the biggest brain, to being able to make the biggest call. Uh, but who are both very much in that, like, uh,

Peggy Carter to Sharon Carter to Steve Rogers, like Noah, you move camp of like how you live your life and to watch them go up against each other like that. The number of lines in those clips, obviously,

what is your job exactly besides making balloon animals protecting your reality douchebag is just historic. We already talked about dude, you're embarrassing me in front of the wizards. I got to say, he's not really my friend. And unlike everyone else in your life, I don't work for you. Hall of famers. That's it. I don't work for you. Hall of famers, like really cutting to the, to cutting to the core with that one. I think it's just absolutely, uh, every part of the pissing contest is amazing. And then like, once again, uh,

part of the way the story moves is you have to shift very quickly, but very believably, if not into actual genuine affection, into going from butting heads, clashing, into relying on each other at the end of the world. And we get the one in 14 million Infinity War moment, and then we build an endgame to the like, hey, you said, well...

We tell you what happens. It won't happen. And then we build toward holding up the one finger. And so that relationship between the two of them, it's not just comedy gold. It feels so mighty, right?

And like centered in the conclusion of the Infinity Saga, even though they have very, very few total minutes on screen together. So I think an incredible achievement. So I love it. I agree. Oh, great stuff. Okay. I do love later. I think, I don't know why I think about this phrasing all the time when he says the bleaker street magician gave the store away. Like at that point, he and Strange have like built something, but he doesn't understand why that move happened. And so he's back to like ridiculing him.

Great stuff. Bleeker Street, wonderful. Wonderful place. Great. All right. Wonderful place. Number nine. This is a big one. I have to imagine we have the same thing here, but we'll see. Do we? No, we don't. No? No, because I think you've already played mine. Oh, it's most memorable argument. Steve? He's my friend. So was I.

So you already touched on this earlier, but it's the Cap and Tony argument here at the end of Civil War. The whole movie is an argument, but he was my friend, so was I. As you mentioned, one of the most gut-wrenching moments. Anyway, and then it just goes directly into a punch. And I think what...

Again, I alluded this to a little bit in the intro, this idea of Steve and Tony and as their arcs cross and recross each other, and Civil War is such an interesting point for that. Since this is not a tropes course, I will not bore you talking about Hegel and thesis into this synthesis and all of that and storytelling maybe for another day. But the idea that Tony Stark...

We have that exchange, as you mentioned, from Avengers when Cap says we have orders, we should follow them. And Tony says following is not really my style. And for those perspectives to flip-flop in Civil War where Tony's the one who's ready to give the keys over to the government and Cap is like... And both of those decisions are so believably informed by...

what has happened to them in the interim by winter soldier for Steve and by Ultron for Tony to watch them move across each other on their arcs and find themselves like at loggerheads again, but on the other side of a, of an argument and then move and cross and change and all of that to finally come together at the end of end game and to watch them, um,

you know, Tony make the biggest sacrifice play and Steve, you know, choose this, the quote unquote selfish thing. Um, some of that life Tony's been telling me. Exactly. So it's so important. And I think that, um, that you trust me. I do. That happens in end game or the way that Tony looks at Steve when he says, this is the fight of our lives right before that. That's my favorite moment in the history of that. Look, I'm serious. I'm serious.

Is just... I am. Is so important. So this... This...

Like, you know, and you and I care so much about Bucky, but we'll talk about that a lot more on Friday. But like this. We will? Yes. So much. But this fight slash argument. And there's a there's a billion Steve and Tony arguments you could choose from. I don't know if you have a different one in mind, but like. I do. Well, sort of. Right. But like, you know, I just I could not have, you know.

he's my friend. So was I the past tense of, so was I kills anyway, kills me. Your answer might be my answer for something else. Let's find out Mallory. What's your, what's your answer here? So I also went with Steve Rogers and Tony Stark, perhaps unsurprisingly. And like your pick, my logic here is really about the journey over the entire infinity saga and shared relationship. I, this was one of the categories where I initially had selected, uh,

I don't need to say how many clips. It's not important. And I was like, this is going to, we're going to hit like the 15 minute mark. We cannot do that. So let's go with one. And then we'll just talk about those other moments and that will be okay. So Steve, let's hear the pick. I ended up settling on big man in a suit of armor. Take that off. What are you? Genius billionaire playboy philanthropist. I know guys with none of that worth 10 of you. I've seen the footage. The only thing you really fight for is yourself.

You're not the guy to make the sacrifice play, to lay down on a wire and let the other guy crawl over you. I think I would just cut the wire. Always a way out. You know, you may not be a threat, but you better stop pretending to be a hero. A hero? Like you? You're a laboratory experiment, Rogers. Everything special about you came out of a box. That score in the background, let us know. Oh, man. What an incredible movie moment this is.

I settled on this one because while there are a number of worthy contenders here, and the one you picked I think is brilliant, and I had already picked it in another category, this feels just so perfectly representative to me of the strife that Tony and Steve not only initially, but then perpetually experience with each other. And...

Yeah.

What I love about that. Sorry, what I love about that, this like how you and I are both focused on, you know, this exercise this week, this Steve and Tony thing is that like it was not guaranteed that that's how this is going to go at all. Right. Like Tony begins the MCU and so is a fundamentally important character because of that.

But, you know, when Cap and Thor were introduced, they were sort of introduced in the same level of importance. And it's really only just, like, organically, this idea of the Boy Scout versus, you know, billionaire playboy philanthropist genius. And the way that they, like, spark and come together and clash and all of that, again,

again, they didn't plan in advance to do Civil War. They didn't plan in advance to do this. They thought they might have to do the MCU without Tony Stark for a while, all of that sort of stuff. But again, this is the genius of the MCU that they lean into their strengths. And I think because Winter Soldier landed the way that it did, Steve then just gets elevated higher and higher on the list of important characters. And then it just becomes the two of them and everyone else, but the two of them at the center of it. You think Tony started realizing that

Cap was a playboy, too, after he heard about Cap and Nat fucking up a storm on the side of the road. And then again, Sam's guest room. By side of the road, do you mean when they were on the run sharing a peroxide bottle and everything else in the Nomad Yard? Oh, boy. We move from that moment in Avengers to...

all of the tension throughout Ultron. We don't have time to catalog all of it, but we think of something like Tony has many outbursts, right? Many tantrums in that movie. My feeling on Ultron has always been that it's like, or certainly since Endgame, it is not an MCU movie that I love. It actually ranks pretty low for me as well, but it is one that

the connective tissue to what, to where we go is like so consequential that I always find it interesting to revisit. And so we have a moment like Tony recounting the battle of New York and his heroics. And then says, but that up there, that's the end game. How were you guys planning on beating that? Steve says together. What does Tony say? We'll lose. And Steve says, then we'll do that together too. And so then we build civil war.

We've talked about that already. It is agonizing. I love that you highlighted specifically that inversion of their positions, not only in Endgame, but in Civil War, because it has to be the kind of thing that feels surprising, but also intuitive, that tracks completely, not only because of the individual journeys that each of them are making, but because of the impact they've had on each other.

That's just such a satisfying aspect of it. And the way that they're challenging each other and like the real, the moments of, there are moments where they're both trying to convince the other person because they still want to be aligned. And then there are the moments of like, of kind of genuine disappointment and disgust in the other person. Like I always think of the Wanda moment in the fabled, oh, it's all my fault stretch. The Wanda moment is so good. Yeah. He almost has,

Had him. He got his dad's pens out. He was just like, they were bonding, they were sharing. Just when I think. Shame to break up the set. Indeed. Every time, Tony. Just when I think. And then the personal betrayal, right? You compound the kind of philosophical, almost existential separation with this thing that feels so deeply intimate as a resentment with Bucky and Maria and Howard. Yeah.

And then you build toward end game and the space sickness and the heartbroken Tony returning and laying into Cap in a way that you can only do with somebody you love. Like, this actually doesn't feel the same if it's just somebody you hate. It's the fact that they are so important to each other and entwined with each other by this point that when Tony calls back to that Ultron moment and says, I said we'd lose.

You said we'll do that together too. And guess what, Cap? We lost and you weren't there. And then they keep going, they keep going. I mean, Tony isn't like, he's like delusional. He's barely alive at this point. He needs a burger and some soup. And a shave. When he is beating on Cap's chest and saying, I got nothing for you, Cap. I got no coordinates, no clues, no strategies, no options. Zero, zip, nada, no trust, liar. Like it is...

the most cutting thing that he could say to Steve Rogers. It's just absolutely brutal. And so then you build back to that initial argument and,

in the Avengers. And I love all of the aspects that are already there in that, that then make everything that follows so much richer. Like the Howard jealousy that's fueling that, that everything special about you came out of a bottle. Well, like that bottle helped create a person who his father considered a legend and a hero, right? That's like part of why Tony is wielding that as a weapon, but also someone else did that for you from his perspective. Of course, we know that it's good becomes great. Yeah.

Oh, really? You two knew each other? You never mentioned that maybe only a thousand times. God, I hated you. I love that so much. And then Cap is like, I'm sorry, Tony. It's just so painful. And Tony as a symbol, the flip side of it, Tony in Avengers really feels like the symbol of a world that Steve doesn't think he fits into. Right? This man-at-a-time idea. He's like, this is supposed to be my...

fellow soldier now this guy yeah and you have Tony's version that like that's the guy that my dad wouldn't shut up about it's just such an incredibly interesting starting point for where we build to that sacrifice play I mean like I'm glad you said already like actually we have many sacrifice plays from Tony along the way that ultimately make the major one at the end but

the book on Steve's face when he watches Tony take the nuke up through the portal. I always, one of the little things I've always loved so much is the, you know, we see the like reflection on Tony's eyeball in that moment. And then when we get the mirror of that on Steve's eye, when he's going into, into space and like all of these little ways that they're connected, even though they're so different, like through their experiences, it's just the fact that their relationship is not easy. It is what makes it so, so,

special to us. Like it's so fraught and they push each other in when your enemy pushes you or tells you that you're messing up, like you just want to punch that person in the face. But when somebody you respect and care about tells you that you have to consider it and they're the best and I love them and they will be coming up again in my next category. I thought as much, which is why I zagged on the next category. Okay. All right. Great.

Let's do it. From most memorable argument to most meaningful makeup. And I will offer the listeners, the bad babies, the same clarity that you saw, which is yes, reconciliation, not cosmetics. That's scary. What do you have here? All right. So I was pretty sure that you're going to have Tony and Cap. So I have picked Tony and someone else very important. Steve, can you play this clip? I thought my dad was tough on me. And now looking back on it, I just remember the good stuff.

Love that. I have that in another category. Yeah. That's a great one. It's a great scene.

Tony Stark gets to talk to his dad, Howard Stark, Camp Lehigh, right before he's born into this world. Jarvis is also there. And this is just a beautiful moment. Crucially so is Zola. Zola! Zola! Pym's there too. Oh,

And Steve's like, TikTok, you got this stuff. We got to go. And Tony's like, I'm having a moment with my father. Thank you so much. We'll talk about Howard again some more a little bit later. But suffice to say that Tony has been operating under the shadow of his father, of his resentment towards his father. Again, none of this stuff is linear, so there have been other moments of

reconciliation or understanding that Tony has had for Howard as his storyline goes on. But to go back to the thing that I said about Morgan and like how having a kid changes you, I would imagine, since I don't have one, but like I would imagine, or I have, many people are saying, many people will say, that like, you know,

Once you become a parent, it helps you better understand and empathize with the things that your parent was struggling with. And I can extrapolate that to many other like becoming an adult and understanding the adults in your life sort of thing. And this idea that like

Tony has had these other moments with Howard's legacy, learning about the foundation of S.H.I.E.L.D. and all these other things. But this is the first time he's meeting his father or confronting his father as a father. And I almost thought you were going to put this in advice because he's giving his father advice and it's really quite beautiful. But yeah, just...

having grace for his father in this moment, he was doing the best that he could, felt like a really meaningful makeup when I knew for a fact that you would be able to talk about Steve and Tony here. So I decided to talk about Howard and Tony. So there you go. Fantastic pick. Great one. Absolutely beautiful scene. I love everything about that sequence. I'm certain that will come up again, not only on today's episode, but also on Friday's. Steve? I just want peace.

Turns out resentment is corrosive and I hate it. Me too. We got a shot at getting these stones, but I gotta tell you my priorities. Bring back what we lost? I hope yes. Keep what I found? Have to. At all costs. And maybe not die trying. Would be nice. Sounds like a deal. Tony, I don't know. What? He made it for you. Plus, honestly, I have to get out of the garage before Morgan takes it sledding. Thank you, Tony. Will you keep that a little quiet?

Didn't bring one for the whole team. This is my favorite. This is precisely the moment I thought and hoped that you would have here. And I just want to shout out the production design for the like trunk crap that's on top of the shield that he has to dump off before he gives it to him. Okay. Yeah, he's really putting that e-tron to work. So the whole scene is beautiful, but specifically Tony handing Cap back the shield and saying why he made it for you.

I was always going to pick a Cap-Tony moment here because, as we have now discussed at length, the healing is as much a part of their relationship as the arguments. I considered picking Cap's letter to Tony at the end of Civil War, but they're not really made up at that point, right? He's reaching out, but they haven't healed, so I didn't think that was eligible. I feel certain that will be coming up again.

That's my favorite moment in the history of the MCU. Can I just say, I love this moment. It's maybe only my second favorite moment with Tony and the shield. When Tony uses the shield prototype to prop up a new element. Outrageous. And Coulson's like, do you know what that is? It's like a shim. Wild times. I could have picked...

Okay, not a bit. Actually, maybe my favorite moment between Tony and Kevin. This was the one, all jokes aside for a second, this was like the one that I felt, I didn't pick this as a standalone pick for any of the categories. And I don't, I can't quite wrap my mind around why, because I love it so much, but I felt like I had to mention it inside of this. The reason I didn't feel like I could pick it here is because that

knock down drag out liar argument that we just talked about is after this but the moment when Tony when they return from space when Carol brings them back and Tony sees Steve and says couldn't stop him and Steve says neither could I and then Tony in his maybe most vulnerable moment ever even though well put a pin in that says I lost the kid it's just like

There are moments across the MCU where you would think and believe that Steve Rogers would be the last person on Earth that Tony would want to see him in that state. There's also, and like he's looking for Peppers right there and he's like, is she here? Like, whatever, she's right there. But there's, I rewound it and watched it again when Tony comes off the ship and he's so emaciated. And like a beautiful, glossy-maned Mustang, Steve roars.

canters across the lawn to get to him. It's just like... Tony doesn't have the full picture, though. He doesn't know what we know, which is that a crime has occurred mere moments prior. We just lost the beard. Fucking outrageous. And we will be returning to that on Friday. That's for sure. I said Mallory a screenshot of just the razor in his hand. And I honestly, I spiraled. It's like 57 texts between us.

It's like a real trigger for me. Joanna, I could have picked. Yes. The charming little moment when they go to the lake house trying to get Tony to opt into the time heist. Great scene. And Cap says, I don't believe we would. And Tony says, I gotta say, I sometimes miss that optimism. Wonderful stuff. And then a lot of the other things we already talked about. Like, I almost picked, you trust me, I do. Your call, here we go. Which is just like, ugh.

there's so much in those two words. I do like it. It's just, it's unbelievable. The prototype that you mentioned back in Iron Man two, Tony, the, the, the, the lament to Bruce. So that's my, the guy, my, my dad never showed up about like all of these things that built her to this point where we get to civil war and they have torn each other pieces. And, and,

Steve stops himself from killing Tony and is walking away. And Tony, like shattered in more than one way, says that shield doesn't belong to you. You don't deserve it. My father made that shield. And then that sound, that clank.

of not only the shield hitting the concrete, but of Steve Rogers letting go of the thing that was the symbol of his legacy and the connection to his past and all of it. Because the most important thing in that moment is obviously Bucky. We'll talk about that later. But so to give it back, like for Tony to know that the only real way to say sorry to Steve and to show that he meant it

Was to give him back the shield that Howard made and to say he made it for you and to put aside all of the jealousy and all of the resentment on that front. Like there's just no more sincere or laden with meaning way that Tony could have said, like, I'm ready to I'm ready to move forward with you again. I just think it's absolutely perfect. Wonderful. Beautiful. Beautiful.

I will. We are running a little late on time, so I'm going to zip through my vulnerable crisis of faith moment just to say we have already covered it at length. What is it? We don't even have to play the clip. It is the, you know,

I said we'd lose. You said we'd do that together. Guess what, Cap? We lost and you weren't there. That's what we do, right? We're the Avengers, not the pre-Avengers. So Tony and also the whole I lost the kid and he says we lost, you know, that's what he says. We lost the kid. It was hard not to pick I lost the kid for this one. Yeah, that was my one like audio smuggle that I had. But like basically we've covered it. I don't want to belabor it, but just like this is Tony just absolutely, and he has a few of them. So I'm excited to hear what you pick, but like

This is Tony just like spiraling completely out of control because of all the trauma that he's been through. You know, his body is weak. His mind is weak. All this sort of stuff. This is just like rock bottom Tony Stark. Anger that he has. The betrayal that he feels. Liar. Ugh. It's, you know, and Rhodey, who may or may not be a Skrull in that moment, is like trying to like support him through it. And yeah, he's got other moments.

like this, but this is just like, you spoke to Downey's performance. There's so many moments where Downey is just playing kind of Downey and there's no, there's no shame in that because like,

They built Tony Stark to sort of just be Robert Downey Jr. And that's just been part of the charm too. Cause when he's promoting the movie as himself, he's promoting the movie as Tony Stark. It's, it all works together. It's beautiful. No knock on that. This is like, this is acting. This is cinema. And, uh, it's an incredible moment. What's your vulnerable crisis of faith? I'm going back to Iron Man three for this one, Steve. I'm going to bed. Come on. Hey, I admit it. My fault. Sorry. I'm a piping hot mess.

It's been going on for a while. I haven't said anything. Nothing's been the same since New York. Oh, really? I didn't notice that at all. You experience things, and then they're over, and you still can't explain them? Gods, aliens, other dimensions. I'm just a man in a can. I'm just a man in a can. This is my most vulnerable Tony Stark moment. I love this moment. Everything in Iron Man 3...

Not a movie that I am as fond of as you are, but the Tony-specific arc in that movie, I really...

love the PTSD that he's experiencing after the battle of New York, the anxiety attack at the diner with Rhodey, the attempt to apologize to pepper this bubbling burbling fear that he won't be able to protect the people he loves, that he won't be able to do the thing that Harley will remind him. He is the best at the,

The mechanic who can fix any problem. And then the way that that idea, that feature becomes a bug. I can fix any problem. I can put a suit of armor around the world, right? This is the complexity of Tony Stark. And the path that that sets him on, the famous man once said, we create our own demons. And how many characters that's true for Tony with? Like, obviously, in this movie, in Iron Man 3, we've got Killian, right?

But we've got the Maximoff twins. We've got Ultron. Tony Stark did not create Thanos as a demon, but all of these things that continue to inform the path that Tony is taking to meet Thanos. The man in a can assessment when Tony is saying it, it feels like he is it's an indictment from his perspective. Right. It's an it's it's insufficient.

And it's proof to him that he's not enough, that he can't go toe-to-toe with a god or an alien. But that's why we love him so much. Like, yes, he's a genius billionaire playboy philanthropist, but he's just a dude. And he's a dude who, as we talked about in the Instant Pick, decided to give a shit. And that's enough. And that's amazing. And so I have another pick coming elsewhere where, like, I think Tony will impart this wisdom that he's learned to somebody else, right?

But the other side of that, just a man in a can idea becomes like a really important part of his life and his legacy in a way that I cherish. So that's my pick here. Though, again, glad we have now shouted out I lost the kid a few times because it deserves to be recognized. We're going back to Howard Stark. Yeah. We've named this category for Jack and Christian Shepard. It's the best. All the best superheroes have daddy issues moment. Joanna.

It's a lost anniversary here. Watch Lost if you haven't. Yes. Another embarrassment of riches here for the contenders. Yeah. What did you pick? Here's where my Iron Man 2 comes in. Oh my God, me too. Okay, good. Steve, will you play this? Tony, you're too young to understand this right now, so I thought I would put it on film for you. I built this for you. And someday you'll realize that it represents a whole lot more than just people's inventions. It represents my life's work.

This is the key to the future. I'm limited by the technology of my time. But one day you'll figure this out. And when you do, you will change the world. What is and always will be my greatest creation is you. The casting here is incredible. Like, to get...

Roger Sterling from Mad Men in Play Howard Stark. Incredible stuff. The fact that this clip comes at the end of all these other clips that Tony is barely paying attention to. He's not even really watching because his dad is devolving. He's drunk. He's telling the nanny to get Tony out of there, young Tony out of there, all this sort of stuff like that. He's like, yep, there's my dad, the drunk guy who doesn't give a shit about me. Great. Yeah.

And then you get to this moment. And Howard essentially is eventually, over the course of the movie, is giving Tony the building blocks for the element that will save Tony's life. Tony is literally dying. So this is like scientific bonding and gift transmutation, receiving, giving and receiving information, the way in which they bond on this intellectual level. But this idea of Tony's lived his whole life believing that his dad just...

thought his inventions, be they Captain America or otherwise, were the most important things in his life when he was like, my greatest creation is you. It was just iconic. And the fact that that then comes back, that Tony then leaves a message for Morgan at the end is this just incredible, emotional, full circle moment that Morgan will always have that video of her dad saying, I love you 3000 is like,

this thing to cling to as she lost him. So yeah, I had a lot of options here for all the best superheroes of daddy issues moments. And I think, oh really? Two knew each other. You never mentioned that. It was sort of in the mix there. But this Howard moment. And again, Iron Man 2 has these like, you know, infinity stones inside the shitty gauntlet that is the rest of that movie. So, you know, glad to honor it.

But, but, but. So I had a two for here, but we've heard both of them already. I had the exact same moment from Iron Man 2, Howard's message to Tony, and then I had the, of course, Camp Lehigh endgame conversation because they feel so connected to me and like,

All of the moments across the MCU where Tony reflects on or mentions or alludes to, you know, in the same movie right before this, like to Fury, he never told me he loved me, never even told me he liked me. Like that is so central in the Howard Tony text for us for so long. And, um,

not just for us, but for Tony and for us to get to see from Howard. Like, not someone telling Tony, right? And then for Tony to get to see this in two ways. He has a message that Howard knew he was leaving him, right?

Right? This is intentional. It's a legacy that he wanted Tony to understand and wanted Tony to inherit and wanted Tony to know that Howard wanted him to carry it forward. And then in Endgame, in the time heist, a message that Howard had no idea he was sharing with his son, which is like,

amazing in such a different way. And the additional perspective and clarity and growth that Tony is able to bring to that is just magical. And obviously, I agree with you that then the way that we can understand and appreciate how Tony ports all of that into his relationship with his daughter, with sweet little Maguna and her crickets on a bed of lettuce and her juice pops is just like...

Really, really, really, really, really special. So I'm glad that we both love those two moments so much. They're amazing. Connects nicely to our next category here. Yeah. Most surprising mentor moment. What do you got here? We already heard my clip. It's actually, I am just assuming you've got some Pete stuff waiting for us here. So I was unsure. Yeah.

That our guy Harley Keener would get representation. So I wanted to make sure to talk about Harley here. So we don't have to hear it again. The like, because we're connected moment from Iron Man 3 is what I put here. But the real like mentorship aspect is...

the incredible, you know, scientific suite that he puts inside of, you know, the garage at the end of Iron Man 3 for Harley because Harley was, you know, he is snarky to Harley the whole time. You know, dad's leave, no need to be a pussy about it. Like, all this sort of stuff. That line is crazy. I always get such a kick out of, like, you know what I'm wondering? Where's my sandwich? Where's my sandwich? But the fact that he, like,

You know, he sees Harley's scientific mind. He sees himself in Harley. Harley is there for him at this, like, absolute another rock bottom. The thing I love about Iron Man 3 is his extreme vulnerability is the idea of who is Tony Stark without his suits, all of that. It's not because Killian or Maya, and we'll talk about, I actually want to talk about those next, but, like, it's not because those are great villains or anything like that, but it's just, like, this idea of

You know, the prompt that Steve Rogers gives him, who are you without your suit? And without his suit, he makes this connection with Harley, who then, because he shows up at the funeral, you have to infer that Tony and probably Pepper to some degree have been in touch with Harley since then.

it wasn't just he did this and then he forgot about Harley, like that he, you know, that someone thought to contact Harley so that he could come to the funeral, which means- Funding his education, his inventions. Yeah. Tony has just been like- His tuna sandwich business. Yeah, exactly. He's like, the September fund is nothing compared to what I've given Harley, right? So like,

And it's the beginning of, it's such an important beginning. The idea that like Drew Pierce and Shane Black put this relationship in Iron Man 3 is such a key beginning to this idea of like, hey, Robert Downey Jr. does a really good job with kid actors. So let's pair him with Tom Holland. Let's give him a daughter in Endgame. Like, and it's just going to be solid gold, but it all comes back to Harley. So I just wanted to shout out Iron Man 3, a movie I love. Harley walked and fired his potato gun so that...

Maguna could say, I love you 3000 and Peter could fly into space. Definitely true. It's so sweet. Harley. He's just the best. Um, but this is the, I know not. This is, yeah, I just like, let's hear perhaps my least surprising pick of the entire pod. Steve, what if somebody had died tonight? Different story, right? Cause that's on you. And if you die, I feel like that's on me. I don't need that on my conscience. Yes, sir. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I understand. I'm sorry.

I just wanted to be like you. And I wanted you to be better. Okay, it's not working out. I'm going to need the suit back. For how long? Forever. Yeah. No, no, no. Please, please, please. Let's have it. Please, this is all I have. I'm nothing without this suit. If you're nothing without this suit, then you shouldn't have it. Okay? God, I sound like my dad. Oh, my God. When Pete sat on set. Oh, my God. So that is, of course, from Spider-Man Homecoming, a wonderful film. Absolutely wonderful film.

I love the Tony Peter MCU relationship so much. It is so special. Obviously, there are a number of different Peter Tony moments that are wonderful and could have in some way been warped to fit this category. You know, I love the spiderling, crime fighting spider, spider boy introduction and Civil War. So funny. The leaning over when he when Tony's dropping Peter off at the beginning of Homecoming and Peter going in for the

for the hug. That's not a hug. I'm just grabbing the door for you. We're not there yet. But then, of course, on the heels of Mr. Stark, I don't feel so good. Oh, no. We do get that hug. Joe, we do get that hug at Endgame. Peter didn't feel so good, but then we get to feel okay after all. So why the if you're nothing without this suit, then you shouldn't have it moment?

Because of everything else we've talked about today. Like, that is only a lesson that Tony can impart to Peter because it is one that he has learned. Thanks to Iron Man 3, a very important film in the Tony Stark story. I'm just a man in a can. This is the other side of that, right? And as you mentioned, the big man in a suit of armor, take that off what are you, callback as well. Like, this is connected to so many different, really meaningful stories.

aspects of Tony's canon and will become a crucial thing for Peter to think about and understand as soon as he makes his decision at the end of this movie to not go into the press conference and move into Avengers HQ at 15 question mark. Tony! Tony! I just, I really, really, really love this scene so much. It's like heartbreaking, but it allows you to appreciate how people can learn and grow and I think it's awesome. We've only got two left, two categories left.

Number 14. Most memorable villain showdown. And I am wondering, based on a comment you made mere moments ago, if you were... Oh, it's not. Don't worry. It's not about killing. Killing. You're okay. I promise it's not. But my clip is from Iron Man 3. You've already alluded to it. Let's hear it. A famous man once said, we create our own demons.

Who said that? What does that even mean? Doesn't matter. I said it cause he said it. So now he was famous and basically getting said by two well-known guys. I don't, uh, I'm going to start again. So this is the opening to Iron Man three as written by Drew Pierce and Shane Black. Incredible, uh, screenplay. I would say Tony Stark's most memorable villain is himself. Uh, the demons inside of himself that he fights this whole time. Um,

he creates his own demons, as you mentioned in, you know, in many like sort of literal ways. Uh, but I think if you look at, yeah, if you look at Obadiah Stane, if you look at, you know, Maya and Aldrich in this, uh,

in this film, if you look at even fucking Whiplash, if you prefer, or, you know. But the dark mirrors of Tony being like Justin Hammer, like again and again and again, we're getting these sort of like dark mirrors of Tony. And like, the demon in the bottle, the demon inside of him. I'll turn my fault. But what he says after that, I have this, this is like a semi-smuggle here. He says,

A few years ago, I almost lost her, so I trashed all my suits. Then we had to mop up Hydra and then Ultron. My fault, hilarious. But then he says, and then, and then, and then, I never stopped because the truth is I don't want to stop. I don't want to lose her, blah, blah, blah. I don't wanna. I don't want to lose her. But, you know, I never stopped because the truth is I don't want to stop. Like, he in that moment is acknowledging that he is his own worst enemy, to paraphrase, I believe, lit it is. And so, I think...

I think that his most, I mean, you could take this literally, there's like stuff with Thanos that we could talk about. Like there's, I thought about that, but I was just like, theoretically, like, I just don't worry. I'll be doing that in a second. That's what I, that's what I said. And I was counting on this from you. And we need to talk about that too. But like, I think that it would be strange not to, I think Howard saying, Howard saying in the past,

Let's just say the greater good hasn't always outweighed my own self-interest as like his concern of something that he's going to pass on to his own kid. And this being the thing that Tony struggles against again and again and again as he sort of relapses on his arc. Yeah. Yeah. I just think...

A hero whose worst enemy is himself is such juicy, compelling stuff. It's not necessarily, no, it's not at all what is true of Steve. And I love that that's true. Like both of these are very interesting characters, but this is very unique to Tony. This interior conflict, the winning and losing of Pepper over and over again, all of that as emblematic of it. So there you go. Iron Man 3 on the list again. Absolutely perfect.

That's absolutely wonderful. The demon's idea is very central in my pick as well, but I will, of course. We got to get Thanos. Thanos, welcome to the pod. Come on, get in here. Steve? You've thrown a moon at me, and I'm going to lose it. Dark. You know me? I do. You're not the only one cursed with knowledge. My only curse is you. You have my respects, Dark. When I'm done, half of humanity will still be alive. I hope they remember you.

inevitable. Fucking dynamite. Incredible. The Thanos-Tony mega mix. Great job to you and to Steve. Way to bundle. Way to bundle, baby. Love a bundle. Don't call it a smuggle. A bundler.

All of this is connected. That's part of why it is so immensely satisfying for us here at the end of not all things, but Tony's journey in the Infinity Saga. That PTSD, that trauma in Iron Man 3, it's not really about what's coming. It's about Tony's worry that he won't be able to stop it. And so then that connects to

Your wonderful pick. We create our own demons. Why is this a thing that happens to Tony so many times in different eras of his life before and after the Battle of New York? Why does he want a suit of armor around the world? Why is he a character who is always looking up and thinking and saying to other people that up there, that's the end game. When he says to Fury in Age of Ultron in the

Barton Family Homestead barn. I wasn't tricked. I was shown. Yeah. It wasn't a nightmare. It was my legacy. The end of the path I started us on. And what did he see? Like, he saw everybody dead. He saw that there's that shield again shattered, right, in the vision. And Cap's saying, why didn't you do more? More? Yeah.

This is the defining fear of Tony Stark's life, that he won't be enough for the people that he cares about. Let's just say it. Wanda Maximoff, great at her job. Really good at her job. An impact and a lasting one. I'll say that. Planted vision from Wanda. For sure. The...

I get such a kick out of so many aspects of the beginning of Infinity War, including, you know, when Banner lands and then he's coming. Strange. Who? Who? Yeah.

Tony's part of that. Tell me his name again. Thanos. He's a plague, Tony. He sent Loki the attack on New York. That's him. And the way Tony says, this is it. Like Thanos isn't just the big boss at the end for Tony. He is the manifestation and representation of every kernel of doubt.

Along the way, like every single threat that Tony mistook or made bigger than it needed to be because of the thing that he thought it was building toward. And even Ultron, who is literally a manifestation in addition to other things, as you noted, not as many other things as Jarvis's vision, thankfully, the manifestation of Tony's

misdeeds and bad judgment, peace in our time, right, is just a brick on the road to Thanos. And so to come face-to-face with Thanos on Titan, for Thanos to know him, and for Tony to say out loud the thing that has guided and defined every choice he's made, my only curse is you, is...

Just a massive movie moment. And then he's the one who prized the stones away in Endgame. And he did it with brains, Joe. Not brawn, right? Science. But like, for Thanos to say... For Thanos to say, I hope they remember you. Brutal. As like this, not just... It is brutal, but it's also just like, again, so...

Just digging right into a bruise for Tony, which is this idea of his legacy and like his ego. Will you make an impact that is lasting? Do you matter at all? That's the question. And at the end of it all, Tony's like, it really matters that I matter to kind of two people, to Pepper and to Morgan. The sacrifice play for them.

sure happy and roadie who's a scroll and Pete too. Pete gets a lot of time there at the end. Yeah, he does. Very sad. It's just to see Tony make that sacrifice play and snap those fingers and repeat the line that launched the MCU is perfection. Perfection. Absolutely.

Our final superlative today. It's the most emotional moment, and we have revealed already that we have both picked something here. The opposite of the prior picks for most meaningful relationship, right? I'll keep it somewhat brief and just say that, like, yes, the goodbye to Pepper at the beginning of Endgame, it's always been you, said so softly, right? Imagine someone saying that to you. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh.

The way, the reason that that hits me more emotionally, even than the end message to Morgan, which hits me very emotionally is that's Tony triumphant, right? Like it's devastating that he doesn't get to be with Morgan, but like he has won the day we get a montage of all the families that do get to be together because of the actions that he took. This is the culmination of his arc. This is him being the best version of himself and he has done it. He has won the,

This message to Pepper comes at the absolute nadir of his life when he's just like adrift in space with love and respect with only Nebula for company. Just like skin and bones. Oh, man. And I just so when we when I as a member of the press went to the press junket for Avengers Endgame, usually at a press junket.

You, the member of the press, have gotten to see the movie or the TV show so that you could then ask the people questions about it. They were not going to do that for Endgame. So instead, they just showed us this scene, which is like him with Nebula in space and before Carol gets there. So you don't know that like everything's going to be fine. And we're like,

And, like, we didn't know when... Like, there was a moment where we at the press junkie were all like, do you think Tony Stark just dies at the beginning of this movie and that's it? And, like, I don't know. Like, we had a brain sickness because, of course, that's not, like, how Tony Stark is going to go out. But, like, we were ill over this movie. And so it just, like...

It absolutely just got me and it gets me every single time I watch it. Here's this man who we've watched have such braggadocio, which he even does in his... I'm not saying your emotional pick is very important. I'm not trying to knock it, but that is like Tony the performer. Tony is like, this is just Tony the broken. And what's better than Tony the broken? What's more important than story, Mallory? Yeah.

As, you know, a very important MCU character himself. Frankly, how dare you invoke that? Though it is always worth remembering that Endgame and not that episode of Thrones, but The Long Night came out the same. Remember that moment in time where we're like, how many Starks will we lose this weekend? Boy, that was a lot. Jeez. It's a great pick, Jo. It's a beautiful moment. Absolutely heart-wrenching. I love it. My pick is the hollow Tony Stark.

meaning hologram, not hollow emotionally. He's full of emotion and growth and insight. Hologram Tony giving his own eulogy, which is iconic. Classic. Yeah. And I love the note that you just shared about like this is Tony triumphant. But I think one of the reasons that I love it so much is because we know that, but he doesn't. Like it's when Tony is recording that message, like,

He's on the brink of the unknown. And like he was resistant to the time heist recruitment. And then even in the beautiful apology to Cap, he's like, I'm in, but right. This is the thing at all costs that he can't.

squander or compromise there's a sacrifice play also not not this this can't be sacrificed and so the fact that when we get to hear from him again and see him and know that his child got to hear from him and see him we get to watch everybody weep as they are spending this final moment with a person that they love especially scroll around do not acknowledge that I

This is going to be my new like plater platter. I don't understand the question and I won't respond. It's just like scroll. I don't understand the question. I won't respond. It's just so sad. And the fact that Tony did it, that he saved the world for the people he loves, but doesn't get to share in that victory with them is so devastating to me. It's just devastating. It's like,

There's a little bit of that, like, but not for me, you know, shyer thing to it. It's just heartbreaking. And I have, like...

never been prouder of Tony than when I hear him say, then again, that's the hero gig, right? Part of the journey is the end. Because that was a lesson that it took him a while to really learn and embrace in full. The moments before where he was willing to engage with that idea were almost like reflexive, like acting on instinct. There was a rashness to his behavior. But this is everything that he built toward. And as we've mentioned a few times, like this inversion too of where Tony and Cap wound up

In that respect, it's just like,

absolutely beautiful. Like, what does it really mean to be a hero? And this is the guy, like, remember, we've talked about this a moment earlier. You may not be a threat, but you better stop pretending to be a hero. And it's like, he didn't have to pretend at the end, you know? It was like, it was the path that he had walked and the place that he had reached. And part of the journey is the end is also just obviously, like, so meaningful and a meta way for us as viewers and fans, like, saying goodbye to Tony at that point. And...

even though, of course, Far From Home actually comes out after this. It's not literally the last moment of the Infinity Cycle. We get Dakota, but this is the finale. And it's just so wonderful. And I love it. And I sob like a baby every time I watch it. And we love Tony 3000. We love to cry.

To quote our guy Vision, what is grief? No, actually, that's not the quote I wanted to. A Vision quote that I want to use here is from that incredible film Age of Ultron. Vision says. He's got some great lines there at the end. A thing isn't beautiful because it lasts. And that is true of Tony Stark. Oh, man. 11 beautiful years with an incredible character. We were very lucky. I'll cherish them forever.

I cherished this pod. This was wonderful. What a great idea you had a year and a half ago for us to do this. We always get around to it eventually. Yeah. All right. It wasn't a nightmare, Joe. It was my legacy. The end of the path I started us on.

That's a wrap. We did it. Wait, wait. Here's the final tally. Iron Man got four mentions. Iron Man 2 or like official not. Iron Man 4. Iron Man 2, 2. Avengers 3. Iron Man 3, 4. You're welcome. Ultron 1. Civil War. Smuggles. Lots of smuggles for Ultron. Civil War 2. Spider-Man Homecoming 1. Infinity War 4. Endgame as it should be 9. So there you go.

I'm not mad at that math. I think we did it. Love it. All right, that's a wrap on the Tony Stark Hall of Fame. Welcome to the hall, Iron Man. Thank you to our Iron Legion today, Steve Allman, for producing this episode. Heroic. It's a frankly astonishing number of clips, Steve. Thank you.

Arjuna Ramgopal for his additional production work on this episode and Jomia Deneron, who loves Tony Stark, for his work on the social for this episode. Remember, head back into the ringerverse tomorrow, Wednesday, for the Midnight Boys. Joanne and I will be back on Friday for the second part of this shared experience. Endgame five-year anniversary part two, Captain America, welcome to the house of our Hall of Fame. Cannot wait for that one. Until then, remember, it's not a hug.

We're just grabbing the door for you.