Comic-Con Superlatives: 'Black Panther: Wakanda Forever' Trailer, Marvel Slate Update, Thrones Hype, and More
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We didn't mean to unleash the greatest evil the world has ever known, but we're going to fix it. So how do we pull that off? Figure it out over a drink? Probably best. Greetings and welcome into the Ringerverse here on the Ringer Podcast Network. I'm Mallory Rubin and it is my absolute pleasure to invite you not only to the Multiverse Saga, but also to join us on the Ringer's Nexus Podcast feed.

For all things fandom, joining me today, now that she's feeling a normal amount of rage, it's my house of our... Wrecking Tide. Co-host, Joanna Robinson.

Mallory Rubin, what a thrill to be here on the stage of Hall H, looking out among a sea of House of Our Listeners. That's right. That's right. You were just describing all of the scents and sounds that typically fill the hall, the fabled Hall H. And you know what? We're just here on Zoom in pajamas on a Sunday morning.

I can smell coffee. Yeah, Nario nacho cheese chip to be seen. I've probably got some nachos and some nacho cheese not too far out of reach here. What's your preferred nacho cheese situation, Mallory Rubin? I love a queso.

You know, here in Los Angeles, I love the queso from home state. Not sure if you've had it. That's delicious. One of my favorites. Yeah. Yeah. Well, maybe I'll get a, maybe I'll get some breakfast tacos after we finish. Now that I'm thinking of home state, we'll Trinity taco action. Hell yeah. Um, case you can't tell from the hall H talk, um,

or the title of this podcast that you've already clicked on if you're listening to it, we are here to talk about Comic-Con. Little Comic-Con roundup. We're going to be running through some of our superlatives from the glimpses and the reveals and the updates and the announcements from Comic-Con this weekend. A few quick programming reminders, as always, before we dive in.

quieter week here on The Ring Reverse. How quiet? Who can say? You'll have to stay tuned to find out. One thing we can say for sure is that the Mint Edition crew, Steve and Jomie, will be breaking down the first three episodes of Harley Quinn. They will be with you on Friday for that season three premiere. And Joanna and I

Barring unforeseen news events that bring us back sooner, we'll be back with you the first week in August. The Midnight Boys will be back very soon as well. How can you follow all of it? You know how. You follow it by following the pod on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. You follow it.

by following the Ringer versus Myriad social feeds. That's a great way to know if there's an update. You weren't expecting something in the next few days, then we have a pop-up pod. You'll see it on your Twitter feed. You'll see it everywhere. You'll see it in your IG stories. Spoiling, you know, this is where we usually do our friendly neighborhood spoiler warning. Here's what we'll say. Any story that...

is in a franchise that we're talking about that has already aired. Anything in there, fair game. Today, obviously, we'll be talking about the Comic-Con announcement slate, but it's mostly really speculation warning. You know, we're going to be talking about the future and some of what we glimpsed and some of what we're anticipating and awaiting here in the nerdverse. Any other words of warning or...

nacho cheese dome or anything else before we dive into our superlatives show no i'm so excited to talk like there's so much i can't wait to talk to you about and and now and then also thinking about the years to come i know of talking about this content with you i know i did have a real moment of uh thinking about the ringer versus coverage plan for fall of 2025 and

after we saw some of the Marvel's late to come. Good stuff. I'll be podcasting for my hoverboard and we'll have a great time. You feel like we're going to have hoverboards in 2025? I'm manifesting it. You know what I mean? Good stuff. I can dream it. I can do it. I feel pretty sure I'm going to be just sitting right here in this chair. It's like my, that's my sense of it. We'll see. Okay. So we have a handful.

of superlatives today. This is going to be how we hit the highlights, the biggest takeaways, the things that stood out to us the most, that were buzzing about the most, that we're the most interested in heading out of the week at coming out of the weekend, heading into the content slate that awaits. Will we strictly adhere to and honor each of these superlatives? I mean, it wouldn't be a house of our episode if we did. So who knows really, but

going to be talking about today. Some smuggles. Virtual haulage. Some category cheats. It's inevitable. It's bound to happen. Some of these we'll probably have the same picks for. Some of these we probably won't. Here's the thing, Joe. We don't know because I don't know your picks and you don't know mine. A good old fashioned hype meter-esque surprise pod. Mallory doesn't like them. I love them. So occasionally she lets me do them. So thank you, Mallory. Wait, what? That's not

That's not true at all. I love the height meters. No, love a height meter. I think I love a surprise maybe a little bit more than you do. Do you know what I mean? Would you agree? No, you disagree? I love a surprise. I love a surprise. I also love being prepared for whatever we're going to talk about on a pod. So that might be true. But I do love a surprise. I love that really genuine moment of elation when we realize we've picked the same thing or the moment of awe when we realize that

We have absolutely, totally different reads on, I don't know, Dungeons and Dragons, for example. We'll see. Hell yeah. Who knows? That's why we're here today. With best trailer. And I think that this is one where we will have the same pick because there was a clear, spectacular trailer.

Wrapping up the weekend, what is your pick for best trailer? There can be no other choice. It is Wakanda Forever, obviously. I am queen! Only son in the world! I am family! Given everything!

spectacular. And so I saw some people saying, and I don't know that I can disagree that this is the best Marvel trailer that has ever been. Obviously like recency bias always plays into things. Obviously there's a lot of emotion wrapped up into this trailer that was, you know, sparked off for a lot of us, but this is like,

visually dazzling and really emotional and introduced a bunch of new faces, faces that have a big bright future in the MCU. So yeah, absolutely. No doubt. This is my pick as well, of course, Black Panther or Wakanda Forever. Just a

stunning and sublime and supremely moving trailer. We learned that Wakanda Forever will be the conclusion of Phase 4. Let's put a pin on that because we're going to talk about that more in another category, I think, without a doubt. November 11th, 2022 release. Very emotional trailer.

Hall H hearing. Obviously, we've alluded to this already, but just to be clear, we were not in San Diego. We were not in Hall H. We were consuming this via the interwebs, via Twitter, etc. But Ryan Coogler and the cast speaking about Chadwick Boseman, sharing their memories. This was just a really, really, really emotionally resonant moment. And this was one of the most anticipated transcripts

trailers in some time and more than delivered, more than delivered. Like you said, this was really one of the most memorable and jaw-dropping trailers in Marvel and really across cinema. Just spectacular, like somber, very heavy with grief, but also so full of purpose and community and love. This was just absolutely beautiful. The music, you know, opening with

No woman, no cry. And then transitioning into Kendrick's All Right. I mean, the musical accompaniments in this trailer are just gorgeous. The note of mourning throughout, I mean, about a minute and a half in, the image of the mural. That's when I started crying. Seeing T'Challa, seeing Chadwick there was just absolutely heart-wrenching.

We hear Angela Bassett's Queen Ramonda say, I am queen of the most powerful nation in the world and my entire family is gone. Have I not given everything? I mean, this was just really, really moving and deeply, deeply sad. If you're Shuri and you hear your mom say that, how are you feeling about that? Well, I mean, we don't know...

We don't know when in the story that line is uttered. Obviously, there's a lot that we can glean from this trailer about the plot of the film and what we might be seeing. You alluded already to the new characters, and there were many, and much of this had been rumored, but to see finally confirmed...

the Submariner, in the MCU at last, King of Atlantis. This was really exciting and really incredible. You know, this long time rights-related delay of bringing one of your favorite things to talk about the rights issues that have... No, I'm...

I just always love talking about Namor in this context because I don't know if you remember, like, back when we were all trying to, like, get a firm grasp on, like, what the rights were in the various studios, people would do these helpful infographics where they'd be like, here's everyone who's under the Fox umbrella, and here's everyone who's under the Sony umbrella, and here's everyone who's under the Marvel umbrella. And there were, like, some gray areas, and Kingpin was one of them. And then Namor was another one that was just sort of, like, kind of floating out there, and nobody really knew...

quite where he belonged. But now that, you know,

Now that almost everything is under one banner, Namor's on the screen. But it's just so funny because, like, Namor the Submariner, I would not top him on the list of, like, comic book characters I am necessarily dying to see, though he looks amazing here, and I'm excited. But from that, like, sort of murky rights perspective, I was always like, when are we going to do this? Like, what is going to happen here, you know? Yeah. I'm really excited to have Atlantis confirmed and entering the MCU in full. You know, we'd had a couple...

but very tiny winks and nods in the past. Like you recall the map in, the shield map in Iron Man 2 with the little beacons across the globe and everyone speculating and parsing for Easter eggs. Could that be Atlantis? Is that there? And then there's, you know, mention in Jomi, we're about 10-ish minutes in and I'm about to say Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. There's some Atlantis talk in Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. But that was all we had for a long time, right? And so...

Seeing the Atlanteans, seeing Namor, the long and very rich comics history of the relationships between Wakanda and Atlantis, sometimes aligned, sometimes opposed. And

There are some like we're going to talk about the Secret Wars of it all later in the pod, but some of the comics plot lines connect directly to the incursion centric storyline that leads to Secret Wars. Right. So like there's some questions there about will this film connect to what we now definitively know awaits on the Secret Wars front or not? Similarly, like Namor.

King of Atlantis, also the first mutant. There's going to be some X-Men talk on the pod today. What we learned, what we didn't learn. Definitely didn't learn. So will there be a mutant connection in this movie with Namor? Will that come later? So many questions, a lot of exciting possibilities. For now, I'm going to retire my...

Is this about mutants? Uh-huh. Quest. Okay. And just wait until... I'm not, but I respect your choice. No, I support you in that. And I... I respect you. Okay, you have my spurs on that front. But I think also what we love seeing about Namor here, a couple things. First of all, the, like, extremely Mayan design on everything looks incredible. And I love that for this depiction of Atlantis. And then also, just...

As Marvel increasingly and increasingly feels fine with embracing the weirdness of the comics,

to give Namor his little feet wings. You know what I mean? Like, there's definitely a version of Namor where they were like, our feet wings too far? Maybe we won't do that. And Marvel Studios is not there anymore. They're like, we're going to do all the fun quirks of the comics. We're doing them in the movies. And I was so excited to see those little wings on what looks like baby Namor birthed under the sea. I love it. And, like, the trailer was just so beautiful.

visually stunning and cinematic as well. And like the underwater birth shot, for example, it was just like breathtaking. And it was also just really neat to hear from and see little interview snippets from Tenor Schwerter, who's playing Namor, who's so excited to be playing a superhero and playing this role and joining the Marvel Cinematic Universe. This was all just really cool. Also really, really cool was

We got to see Ironheart in this trailer. We got to see Riri Williams, scientific genius. Really incredible to see Riri here in Wakanda. Now we know that we're getting the Ironheart series. We've known that we're getting the television series for some time. We did get confirmed timing as well at the Hall H panel, fall of 2023, part of phase five. One of the really like,

wow, I got to chill moments of this trailer was seeing Ironheart hammering out the sigil in the mirror shot. This is about like 134 into the trailer. Mirror image to Tony hammering out his chest plate in Iron Man. There's so much, you know, like Ironheart, obviously, there's so much comics connection between Riri and Tony Stark. And there's also like...

Also seeing her in the lab and greeting Shuri, you know, the same way that T'Challa did. So to put her in a position where she is like a T'Challa analog and a Tony Stark analog is a lot to put on a new character. And I'm so excited they feel, you know, bold and brave enough to do that with her. And I think that both with Shuri and with Riri, like,

There have been so many interviews with the Marvel powers that be when they're like, yeah, these women, these geniuses,

are on par or if not smarter than Tony Stark. And I think we see shots set in Boston in the trailer, you know, bridges that are identifiable as set in Boston, which is probably where we're picking Riri up at MIT or something similar. And so I'm thrilled. I'm so excited. And like, you know, this is...

furthering the young Avengers agenda, obviously. Like, this is a big part of it. This is their Iron Man analog that they might get on an Avengers lineup. And I don't know. I'm really excited with how much prominence and how much of a spotlight she's getting in this trailer. Me too. Makes me really happy. Yeah, it was awesome. We must, of course, also mention the quick glimpse, very quick...

of a new Black Panther. So there are two things here. There's the poster that came out, which is the mask, right? And then in the trailer at the 155 mark, we do not see a full body. We cannot deduce who this is, but we see like lower arms, upper legs, and then a clawed

hand the claws extending from the right hand in the trailer Wakanda's ass Wakanda's ass is also in frame flex of gold on this panther habit so who do you think is in the suit do you think it's shuri do you think it's sokoye do you think it's killmonger from another dimension if this ends up being from another universe if this ends up being a multiverse film in some way what's your what's your current theory

I have a lot of thoughts and questions. This could even be a flashback, and that could be T'Challa himself, right? If they show a suited version of T'Challa in some kind of flashback. But I have questions about how much they're going to play with who the Black Panther is going to be. Because as the Midnight Boys have hotly debated over on their show, this question of

Recast T'Challa or Crown a New Black Panther has been one that's really sort of dividing the fandom. And so here's one thing I will say.

I don't know. I don't... I want to wait until I see how the story is told before I decide who I would have a strong preference taking up the mantle, if that's what we're seeing here. I don't think it's Winston Duke because I follow him on Instagram and those thighs aren't thick enough. So that's the one person I am disqualifying from this particular suit shot. I think to that point, more broadly, it felt right and appropriate that this was not in any way

the primary ambition or focus of this trailer. This was right there for you at the very end, but this trailer was about the connection to the past, the memory, the love, and how you carry that into the future. That was the purpose and thrust of this trailer. Any other...

Thoughts? Michaela Cole? Michaela Cole is what I want to talk about. So Michaela Cole was playing this character, Anika, who's one of the Dormelage. Combat trainer. She's in this Midnight Angel armor from the comics. And her storyline with Okoye in the comics and how we might see that play out might be the fulfillment of...

footage that I saw many, many years ago, and I would be excited to see that. So, yeah. Michaela Cole, there was a lot of theorizing that she might be playing Storm on the Is It a Mutant Watch question.

But I'm really happy that, I mean, she'd be in a phenomenal storm, but I'm really happy that this is the answer here. I'm really excited for her in this role. So, yeah. I love it. Anything else? Guys, anything you want to add on the trailer? Jomie, Steve, Arjuna? The music was incredible. Yeah. Like going from the Thames cover of the Bob Marley song into Kendrick's All Right, that hit different.

That hit different. You know, you see the T'Challa imagery, you know, like, you know, them all wearing white. You assume like that's like a, you know, a funeral or something. And, you know, they're all, you know, mourning him. And then to see like, I don't know, it was, it was just, it was, it was, it was awesome. It was, it hit so hard. I can't wait. Can't wait till November. Let's get it. It's smart. Like in terms of, you know, like,

The constant talk of like, what's going on with Marvel? Are we happy with what Marvel's doing? What's going on with Marvel? What's going on with Marvel? Like the fact that this is so soon, like November, it's coming so soon and was such a strong moment for them at Comic-Con was something I think they really needed. So, yeah. And what an end note too for this panel. Yeah.

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or the Peloton app. It's like having your own personal coach with you or right at home in your living room. Call yourself a runner with Peloton at onepeloton.com slash running. Let's go to our second superlative. Maybe we'll have some more Marvel talk coming here. Maybe we won't. Who can say? Biggest surprise.

Most surprising announcement, most surprising reveal, the most surprising reaction you had to something you saw interpreted in any way you see fit. What's your pick here, Jo? Yeah, I'm going to go to the world of comics for this one because, hey, man, that's how Comic-Con started. It's about comics. So the Marvel...

next big thing panel that they had where they announced a bunch of like creators and storylines that are coming up in the comics world they announced a new project from Jonathan Hickman and Valerio Schitti and Hickman is such a

Powerhouse, House of X, Powers of X are huge, huge storylines that he helmed that people loved. And they announced this sort of mysterious new big project, their sort of like billboard project with just like an image, like the image, the social image that they put out, the tagline is like, what happens when the powers that be meet the natural orders of things? What does that mean? What

What does that mean? And then Hickman described it as Sandman for the Marvel Universe. I'm like, what does that mean? I don't know. And so it's definitely not X-related is what Hickman said. And so I don't know what... So...

With the movie and TV stuff, like, other than, like, was I surprised by how emotionally overwhelmed I was by the Black Panther trailer? Maybe yes, maybe no. But, like, in terms of announcement-wise, there's nothing that really, like, knocked us on our feet, especially because with the Marvel panel, some of those, like, big new titles that they announced leaked a little early. And so, like, maybe we weren't...

blown away by King Dynasty if we were like, you know, saw that Marvel had trademarked it and that had sort of gone around the press a little bit before. So I can't think of like a movie or TV thing that knocked me on my ass the way that like the

The idea of Jonathan Hickman taking on a big, new, mysterious project. And this is just going to, like, because the union between Marvel Studios and Marvel Comics is so much stronger than it used to be, you know, what Hickman is going to create here is planting seeds for future Marvel Studios projects.

events that we might see. Not even like that far down the road, possibly. So, yeah, that got me really excited. Well, every new phase lasts approximately three and a half weeks based on the timing that we saw. So, yeah. This will be the fodder for phase 17, which we'll get in 2026 at this rate. I am going with, for my biggest surprise here, most surprising announcement, the

MCU update on phases four, five, and six in totality. And then I have a lot of justifications and rationalizations within that for what was surprising and what wasn't and what I even mean by surprising in this context. So, okay. First of all, to be clear, I am not surprised that

in any way, by the clarity on the end stage shape of this saga. You know, we have been saying on the Ringiverse pods for quite some time, with a lot of conviction, I think, that the multiverse was going to be the defining storytelling through line of these three phases, like of this saga.

That a new Avengers team was going to inevitably assemble. That Kang felt likely to us to be this saga's big bad that we were heading toward Secret Wars. So the announcements...

And the headlining news included the Multiverse Saga as the name of phases four through six, Avengers the Kang Dynasty as the next Avengers film, which is going to be in phase six, and Avengers Secret Wars, confirmation that that is the culmination of phase six. So all of that is very exciting. None of that is shocking. None of that is really surprising because it had been so central to the speculation for so long. Right. Acknowledged. However...

I do think, and I did feel at least, surprised by some of the shaping and updating of the slate along the way. Sure, yeah. A couple things in particular. One...

ending so soon. Learning that Wakanda Forever concludes Phase 4 this November, this fall. So She-Hulk is the last Phase 4 television show. Black Panther will be the last Phase 4 movie. We also got, we should say, a new She-Hulk trailer. We're obviously not going to get to talk about every single trailer in great detail, but we got a new She-Hulk trailer as well. So this is a year and a half in total for Phase 4. Now, we had previously thought that

Ant-Man, Guardians 3, the Marvels, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. We're going to be part of this really already quite ample and extending and quite long and sprawling phase four. So this is a change in a sudden one. Like it would be one thing to say the phase is going to be different than what you thought it was, but it ends in this X number of films or months in the future. It's like, no, this next thing that you're getting on the TV and movie front

is the conclusion of it. That surprised me. So there was some comments from Feige at the panel. We're making the rounds. Boris Kidd at THR tweeted the following, which is a good summation of this idea. Quote, phase four was about, quote, resetting the MCU and meeting all these new characters, Feige says, before going on to outline phase five. So this idea that phase four, much as we've discussed all this time, is this bridge phase. Meet new characters, reset,

say your goodbyes, pass the tortures, see the mantle assumed by a new character. Exactly. So again, it's kind of like it fits in many ways. It's just the suddenness of the demarcation of the end point, like took me by surprise a little bit. And I'm curious if you felt the same way, if you think that this was always...

or if this feels like a response to some of the chatter and maybe a desire to contain Phase 4 and the discourse around it and then reset. This is the theory in the Ring of Earth group chat, right? It was like, let's close the book on Phase 4. If it has a bad rap, let's close the book on it and close out strong Phase.

with Wakanda Forever. So maybe like hit a high note that will make everyone, like you can't write off phase four. We ended with Wakanda Forever and it's our masterpiece. So like, you know, and then fresh start with Quantumania and Secret Invasion and Guardians 3 and stuff like that. I don't know if I'm surprised. Here's what I'll say. I think that

We've talked so much about the fact that this has to be a new world order for Marvel Studios because something that used to...

make Marvel Studios stand out from all the other people who are running up to try to catch up to Marvel and ape their model was that Marvel would almost always, if they put something up on that big black timeline on the wall, it would come true, you know? And there's like a few exceptions like in humans or moving Thor Ragnarok or whatever, but they didn't move stuff that often and they didn't cancel projects and they didn't, you know, like if they fired a director, they found another one quickly. It wasn't like, you know, so yeah,

They're juggling so much more than they used to. And so I think they need to be a little bit more flexible and nimble. And I think it's better that they're flexible and nimble in terms of this doesn't really mean much when it comes to phase demarcation. But in terms of like moving things around, like in this announcement, as you alluded to, we got the announcement that they're going to do two big Avengers movies in the same year.

King Dynasty and Secret Wars, same year. And every person that I've talked to about that announcement, we've all been like, that's the plan for now. Like, that's the plan for now. And I think it's fine if that changes and moves in the future. So I think we should be ready for these big changes

Marvel timelines that we see at Comic-Con or D23 to be a little bit more flexible than they've been in the past. So on that front, let's chat for a second here about the Phase 5 slate. I don't know how much in here really qualifies as like a huge surprise, but it's a good opportunity to just run through it for a minute. So the movies, six of them,

Ant-Man and the Wasp, Quantumania, February 2023. Guardians of the Galaxy, Volume 3, The Marvels, Blade, Captain America, New World Order, Thunderbolts, July 2024. On the TV side, what if, though what if it's not like

The animation wasn't presented in the Hall H Saturday panel up on these phase slates, but we know that that's sliding in in early 2023. Secret Invasion, Echo, Loki, Ironheart, Agatha, Coven of Chaos, Daredevil, Born Again, and that will be early 2024. So another phase lasting like a day.

the dates might move, but about a year and a half, right? So these phases are compact. They're tight. Some of my takeaways, and I guess, again, it's not shocking, but I was a little bit surprised that to the point about like, okay, let's now contain phase four and move on to this new phase that has a new identity and it's part of this larger saga, but it could be a place where we do the new thing.

No Fantastic Four. No X-Men. No Avengers. So, like, I am really hyped for a lot of the shows and a lot of the movies that are a part of that Phase 5 slate. But I think it is fair to say that it lacks that signature, signature team-up element.

right? It's not something that makes me less excited, but it does strike me as a bit interesting in terms of the structure and the breaking points, the start point and end point for the phases. Like, is Thunderbolts that big team up? Or is this just about the fact that, I mean, get right? I think it's Captain America New World Order. Like, because remember that Captain America Civil War was,

It is like ostensibly a Captain America movie, but that's an Avengers movie. So I think Captain America New World Order is going to be... Is where the new Avengers take shape. I think it's going to be a huge team-up movie. That's what I think, too, that that's where we will see definitively what the shape of the new Avengers is before we head into the Avengers movies in Phase 6. Yeah, but I think... I mean, there are plenty of people who looked at that Phase 5 and felt...

a little underwhelming if they had just left it there and not announced Phase 6 and the fact that they're doing two massive Avengers movies. Yeah, there would have been a different tenor among the fan base. I think so. But I mean, there's things in there like Blade I am so excited for. Um...

You know, and so, yeah. And Guardians, I think, still feels like a massive—I mean, it's been a while since we've had a Guardians movie. That still feels like a heavy hitter, not just a heavy hitter, but like from the Marvel before heavy hitter right in here. You know what I mean? Yeah, again, yeah. But I agree. Like, I'm surprised by the lack of Fantastic Four and X-Men characters.

Feige did do a backstage interview where someone was like, X-Men Phase 10 or whatever, and he's like, oh, I don't want to wait that long. You want to wait that long? I don't want to wait that long. That was in his interview with Phase Zero where he also had the quote. He said, you're not going to culminate every 10 months in an Avengers movie. And then he cited how many of the individual films now, just because of the scope of the MCU, feel like crossover events or are crossover events in some capacity anyway, to your point about... I mean, he didn't specifically say Captain America, but to your point about Captain America, right? So...

Yeah, again, I think it's like for me, it's the distinction. Like, I feel very, very amped about many of these titles, and I'm really excited to see these movies and these shows. Just in terms of like the MCU's branding and marketing, I was a little surprised that there wasn't one of those movies.

one of those properties wasn't a part of phase five. That said, like these, you know, we didn't get to see online some of this footage, but we know that they showed some footage from Quantumania. They showed some footage from Secret of Asia. They showed some footage from Guardians. It sounds like

all really cool. Like the Ant-Man glimpses and you can read, you can read, there's an article on Variety, there's an article on EW, you can read pieces that sum this up in full. But, you know, the Variety piece featured a quote from Kang, you're an interesting man, Scott Lang. You've lost a lot of time, but time, it isn't what you think.

In the idea of going to the quantum realm, Modoc, Bill Murray. We see Cassie in the new poster in her purple suit as Stinger or Stature. They still haven't said like, I can't wait for Quantumania. Jonathan Majors is king. Let's do it.

The fact that the panel opened with Miss Minutes up on the board and Feige was wearing a Miss Minutes ball cap. Yes. And then he ended, like he gave his, like later he swapped it out for the Multiverse Saga cap. And like obviously like Miss Minutes is part of Loki, which was obviously like one of the more popular things that Marvel has done in the last couple of years. So that's like a reason to use it. But also I think we're pinning a lot on, because we keep asking this question of like why?

what is the multiversal event here? Because there are so many candidates, right? Is it like what Peter did? Is it what Steven did? Is it what, you know, Loki and Sylvie did? What is it? And I'm starting to suspect that.

that that is the answer, right? Oh, yeah. You know? Yeah, I think so. But it has... I mean, like, you say that, like, it's a given thing, but it hasn't been, like, super clear. Given how many times we've seen, like, cracks open in the universe, I feel like they haven't been, like, super totally clear. I think the thing that... I agree that they haven't been clear. I think the thing they haven't been clear on is how these things all relate to each other or what the exact sequencing is. But I don't... I don't think it's...

really debatable that Sylvie, that the confrontation between Sylvie, Loki, and he remains at the Citadel at the end of time.

was what cracked open the sacred timeline and opened up the multiverse to allow for all of these other multiversal wars and sagas. You know, if that's the answer, I would love to have some hilarious breakdown of this. Maybe Miss Minutes will give us another animated video. Maybe. It was helpful the first time. But I think that...

the announcement of Kang Dynasty, something that like we had suspected, but like to get that confirmation does, you know, underline all of that for us. So also, I don't know if it had previously been announced. I don't think, but Agatha, the Agatha show getting a new subtitle coming to chaos versus house of Harkness. I don't know. I don't know what to read into that. Great title. Yeah.

House of Harkness maybe sounded a little too like, is this about a fashion designer? It would have been big for us. You know, anything a house of naming convention really big here at the House of R, but we'll make do. Should we be a coven of chaos? I like to think that we are. Okay, great. We, again, didn't see the Guardians footage, but there were tweets. There were ample tweets about how people had broken down in tears watching the Guardians footage. I saw a lot of tweets about people being moved to tears. So that's right.

right in my wheelhouse. Can't wait to see that. Very excited for that. We did see a snippet of Baby Rocket. Just a little... Tiny little snippet. On the Fantastic Four and X-Men front, a big question we've been asking ourselves is how much were they going to show us here at Comic-Con and how much were they going to hold back for Disney's own Comic-Con-esque event D23? And so if they're holding...

You know, they had a director change with Fantastic Four. I've heard that they've had some, like, writer changeover, et cetera. You know, so they're still sort of figuring that out on the one hand. On the other hand, they might just be like, we're going to blow your minds with so much. We're going to announce who the Fantastic, you know, family is, and we're going to announce who our

X cast is or some of them at D23. You know, they drop a lot of stuff usually at D23. So however much we got here, there's still plenty more to come in less than two months. So, yeah. So the only specific titles that we got for Phase 6 are Fantastic Four, November 8th, 2024, Avengers, The Kang Dynasty, and Avengers Secret War, November 7th, 2025. So currently, Phase 6 spans eight

a year. As you noted, that seems likely to change. It's certainly reasonable to assume it could change. But if they add, if they do announce a D23 or whatever, X-Men to that mix or something else, like Phase 6 has the chance to be historic in terms of the number of top-tier titles and properties in that slate. The only other thing I want to say about Phase 5 before we move on is the Daredevil comment.

for me 18 episodes maybe Daredevil Born Again incredible title so happy to have Charlie Cox and Vincent D'Onofrio back making a television show for us 18 episodes that is shocking that is shocking

Why? I'm always the one saying make these shows longer, Joe, but 18 episodes. I mean, is this network television in 2006? I don't understand. What is this, ABC? Yeah. I don't understand. I love the born again title because it's like, you know, it's like Spider-Man Homecoming. There's always this sort of like cheeky, like what we're doing here and this idea that

I've been told at least that this Daredevil is not the exact same as our Netflix, you know, Daredevil. We did glimpse Daredevil in the She-Hulk trailer. Right. At the end. That was fun. Right. So, like, that he's born again, meaning, like, you know, this is a new guy. Similar, almost identical to the old guy, but it's a new guy sort of thing. I mean, I think if they put...

There's been rumors that Luke Cage and Jessica Jones are also porting over from Netflix land over here. I would love that. So if they put...

Those folks in, you know, then like it's almost like three shows in one perhaps. And that's, I don't know, six episodes per Defender. Not you, Iron Fist. I mean, like, yeah, it's possible. Also, in terms of the... Are we getting Kilgrave again? Our guy. Oh, my God. I would be so happy if David Tennant came over. Oh, my God. David Tennant. Please. Please.

Also in that phase, phase six, fill in the blanks with like X properties and et cetera. Um,

And Deadpool 3 is also something that looks like it probably belongs over there. They're trying to figure out their X launch strategy. This is the thing, right? It's surprising not to have heard anything definitive about the next Deadpool movie, but this is kind of a piece with not hearing any larger clarity about it. And we did get, we should say we got X-Men 97 in the animation panel. That was a part of that separate event, but in terms of live action. Yeah.

Not a peep on the X-Men or mutant front. I really am surprised. I know I shouldn't be. Like you said, maybe it'll come as soon as D23, but on the heels of the mutation drop in the Ms. Marvel finale, it's a little strange to not have gotten something here. Though that's something that we learned was like a very late addition to the story. But as we just speculated, perhaps incorrectly, it's possible that it was a late decision to end.

four in three months. So, like, you know, they can wing it. But yeah, you can't wing something like an X-Men announcement. That's certainly true. I think you just... I mean, like, I'm impatient for it and...

That's not what I'm... We're going to talk about impatience later. But, like, I'm impatient for the X-Injection. But I also just really need them to not fuck it up. Yeah. It needs to be perfect. And so take your time. I'm content to wait. Yeah. And also, we did get so much here. There's so much to be excited about. I left... Like, what was your... I should ask this. What was your overall feeling leaving the Marvel panel? Because I... It was a bit of a journey inside of that hour. But at the end, I was like, finally!

That trailer was so fantastic for Wakanda Forever and the Phase 6 stuff, just completely electric. Like, I can't wait for the Fantastic Four movie. I can't wait for Kang Dynasty. I can't wait for Secret Wars. We're getting Secret Wars. We've talked about it for so long and now it's happening. I don't like that. No, I mean, I think the decision to end on a blockbuster trailer... Loki Season 2 and Phase 5? Hell yeah, I love Loki, Jo. We're going to finally get to talk about Loki together. I think...

Ending with a Black Panther trailer was so smart. The last couple D23s, they usually end with some big casting announcement, like Brie Larson's here or whatever. Like, it's usually like, and guess what? Mahershala Ali is Blade, you know? So that's a little bit of a different... So you think that'll be the X-Men casting at D23 this year? I mean, fantastic forecasting. I mean, I definitely think we're going to get the fantastic forecasting at D23.

Uh, summer, summer of no expectations. Not here. Um, I don't know. Like, is it dumb to be excited about all this stuff when like so much of the Marvel stuff lately has felt a little mixed? Um, maybe, but like, I can't, I don't see a thing on here other than Thunderbolts. I have a lot of questions, uh, you know, mostly because I don't think they've done the work they need to, to get me to care about John Walker. And that's,

to what's going on here. But everything else, I mean, Secret Invasion, the number one thing out of the Marvel panel that you and I got tagged in on Twitter was the Secret Invasion because it's like Secret Skrullapalooza. Dude, we got so many people. Coby Spaulder's saying it's going to be, quote, a bit of a guessing game. Yeah.

Yeah, it's House of R season. It's Secret Scrolls season, baby. It has been. Hello. I can't wait. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, there's a lot coming and it's all coming in a very, very, very condensed span of time.

time. So if you don't enjoy one phase, you know what? It'll be time for another phase before you even know it. Anything else on the Marvel phase announcement front or on the surprise front before we move to our- You did a great job smuggling everything Marvel- We had to talk about it. Into one- You know? We had to talk about it. I'm really proud of you. I'm not fully done talking about Marvel. I'm going to come back to something, but yeah, I'm good. Wonderful. Our next superlative.

And this one is really, I think, this could be interpreted in any number of different ways. Biggest hype booster. This could be a thing that you were not excited for at all previously. And after Comic-Con, you are energized for. This could be something you were already excited

anticipating with every fiber of your being and now somehow you are anticipating it even more wholly than you were before or anything in between. What is your pick for biggest hype booster? This is where I'm going to talk about Dungeons and Dragons. I was hoping you would pick this here. Give us a fighting chance. We're going to need strength. You got this right. I know you don't.

We also need courage, magic, and you. Here's the deal. There have been so many, like, movies, you know, Warcraft movies or whatever that are just, like, hot garbage. And you're just like, why is it here? This is not doing justice to anything we actually love about these sort of geek properties. What is going on here?

I was, when I heard that there was a Dungeons and Dragons movie coming, like starring Chris Pine or whatever, I was sort of like, okay, fine, whatever. And then, a little while ago, I looked up who was writing and directing it. And it's Jonathan Goldstein and John Francis Daly, who like comic fans might know from their work on Spider-Man films, but real ones know. Yeah.

These guys wrote and directed Game Night, which is one of the best movies of all time ever. One of my favorite studio comedies of the last decade. And just, I mean, just a fantastic, if you've never seen it, like, please just trust me for once in your life and watch Game Night because it's a perfect film. It's,

It's absolutely rock solid, super airtight. It's a joy. Joke after joke. I've rewatched it so many times. Game Night is incredible. So the fact that these are the Game Nights... By the way, John Francis Daly forever has my heart because of Freaks and Geeks. But like, the Game Night guys...

are doing Judges and Dragons Honor Among Thieves. The cast is incredible. Chris Pine, Michelle Rodriguez, Regé-Jean Page, Justice Smith, Sophia Lillis, Hugh Grant, ever heard of him? Fantastic. And then this trailer was just a delight to me. Um,

Chris Pine is a bard. Like, hot off the... You know, they got, as you just alluded to, asked a lot of Stranger Things question. And Chris Pine, in an interview with No Shoes On, let it be noted, Chris Pine, barefoot, as can be, was asking Sophia Lillis, the youngest member of the team, like, why do we keep getting asked... Do they play D&D in Stranger Things? Why do people keep asking us about Stranger Things? But, like, if you fell for Eddie Munson, the bard of Stranger Things...

Welcome to Chris Pine, baby. Like, I'm so excited. Not quite as amusing as somebody in the House of the Dragon Q&A portion saying it's Morbin time to Matt Smith and him having no idea that that was about Morbius, a movie he was just in, but still pretty good. Literally, what are you talking about? I loved it. Michelle Rodriguez is the barbarian with, like, her, like, guns out.

Huge acts. So exciting. Regé-Jean Page, who was misattributed as a cast member of Secret Invasion, and that was corrected. Justin Smith. But above all else, Hugh Grant. I just want to commend you for a minute here, saying all of that other stuff, which I'm sure you believe it is true when we all know that this is about Hugh Grant. And that's why you made this pick. Continue. Continue.

Honestly, that's just the cherry on the Sunday. But Hugh Grant, if you have not done yourself a solid and looked up any and all interviews that Hugh Grant gave in this Comic-Con whirlwind tour, please do. Any and all compilations. I didn't keep an exact count.

But rough estimate, I'd say like 87% of the ample slacks and texts that we exchanged yesterday as a group and a planning committee were you sending us TikToks of Hugh Grant talking about this movie. The heart wants what the heart wants. Essential prep.

Hugh Grant being like, I don't know what the fuck this movie is. Why I'm here. It's great stuff. I hope the monsters get cut out. Like everything you said. Iconic. Tremendous. Steve seems hyped by your pick. We got a hell yeah from Steve in the Zoom chat. Steve's a fellow Game Night head. Steve and I like both have really good taste and that means that we love Game Night. I love Game Night too. It's a great movie. You also have great taste. Where is your hype for Dutch the Dragon's colon Honor Among Thieves? I hate

I can't say that I was moved in the same way that you were by this trailer or this Comic-Con experience, but I remain very intrigued and I look forward to this film. I think that, you know, we need to remain...

vigilant as a team and follow through on the promise that we made on the stranger things pods that steve was not on but got a lot of tweets about that that steve was going to organize a dungeons and dragons campaign for the ringer verse uh the ringer squad and honor among thieves it's just one more it's just one more push like we need to do it we need to play because we have not i have not played you have not played i want to steep myself in the in the world

this film comes out and before Stranger Things season five. So Steve, get on it, plan the campaign, bring some satanic panic to the ringerverse community to make it happen. Was I telling you that my friend, uh, Jenny Owen Young's, uh, talented musician and podcaster, um, over, over, uh, the break, not the break. COVID is what I meant. Um, was playing a Xena warrior princess themed, uh,

Dungeons and Dragons campaign, which just sounded incredible to me. For the last couple years? Yeah, for a while. How wonderful. So I'm just saying, we can think outside the box in terms of our setting for what this D&D campaign might be. Steve, get on it! You literally have no idea what you wrought right now. You really don't.

Let me throw a little cold water on this D&D hype before I throw a little hot water back on it, right? Okay. So cold water is the release date of this moved around a lot, but a lot of that had to do with COVID. So I'm not that nervous about it. Hot water is they're planning a, they're already planning a spinoff television series. And this is going to be like a cornerstone of some like massive sprawling D&D universe that they want to create over at Paramount and Paramount TV plus, et cetera. Uh,

So that, you know, that just means they have a lot of confidence in this property. That's good. We've never been led astray by the streamers in the studios wanting to recklessly expand their IP universes before. As you know, I'm almost always in on IP universes. I will say the last two that I can think of in this vein are Dune and The Batman, where they like sort of announced intentions for TV spinoffs before the movies came out. And I fucking love both of those movies. Same, as you know. Yeah.

In. All right. I'm all out for the ride. I'm hyped. You got me. I'm taking my shoes off right now. I'm going to start asking you what Stranger Things is. Hell yeah. I'm going to get you a cloak and a staff. That would be great. Wait, wait, Steve. Steve, quick question. Come back. Steve. Yes. What kind of character would Mallory play? Oh, man. I feel like she wants to be...

Like a wizard or probably... That's correct. It has to be a wizard. There's no or probably. There's no or, yeah. So sorcerer. Sorcerer. Maybe me. There's a lot of rules and things you got to remember with that one. But yeah, that would probably be for her. Absolutely. And me? What am I? Rogue. Rogue or bard. Coming through in the chat. Rogue or a bard, yeah. Hell yeah, Jomie. Mal the mage. Hell yeah. Or you could be a druid. You want to turn into animals?

I don't know, but that owlbear looked so cool. It could be an owlbear. That would be amazing. Yeah, it's either a druid for Mal or a spellcaster. I think Mal could be a shape-shifting sorcerer. Oh, yeah. That could be part of what she does. Can I be, please? Yeah. Absolutely. Oh, when can we start? This sounds so fun.

By the way, Steve casting me as a rogue means he put me in the Hugh Grant role, which like, thank you. What a fucking compliment. Genuinely. Great. Good stuff. It's all coming up. Joe. Hype booster. Mallory. I'm cheating here. I'm sorry. I'm picking something that I was already incredibly hyped for, but I just, I didn't know where else to talk about this.

You knew I was going to do it, Joe. I want to talk about the Rings of Power. I love when you cheat. The Rings of Power is my pick for hype booster. If the evil rising is left, it will take us all.

To be clear, I think this is clear to anyone who listens to this podcast who has heard us do multiple very long breakdowns of prior trailers and say no fewer than 7,000 times how excited we are to cover the show together in the fall. I was already very, very, very hyped for Rings of Power. But...

The reason I'm picking it here in addition to just wanting to talk about it with you for a moment here is genuinely and sincerely, and this is not always the case for things that I'm excited for, every glimpse that we've gotten has increased my excitement, which like often you're hyped for something and you see more or you hear more and there's a little pull inside of you like,

That's not what's happening here. Not at all. Quite the opposite. I am feeling this surge into the Palantir. Dude, but that's a big part of it. Getting to see Galadriel put her hand on a Palantir here, one of the seven seeing stones. Thrilling. The trailer ends with a Balrog in

There is so much Sauron talk in this trailer. It felt overall, the trailer felt like more focused. And as you know, I enjoyed the most recent trailer that we got in previously quite a bit, but this felt more focused in terms of setting the agenda on the plot and tone front. He has not one name, but many. Have you heard of him, lad?

Have you heard of Sauron? You know, a lot of Sauron talk in the trailer. Also, it just looks so grand and cinematic and lyrical. You know, we talked last time about the lines of dialogue and you shared so many insights already about how this show is scripted and how much of what we're hearing is this original, really lovely, beautiful narrative. Like hearing a line like...

There can be no trust between hammer and rock. Oh my God. That's like, give me a chill. It's gorgeous. It's just gorgeous.

But then there's also familiar lines, like Galadriel says, evil does not sleep, it waits. And Boromir said, there is evil there that does not sleep. So they're plucking, they're seeding in. It's just a genius balance, the familiar and the fresh. Yeah, it is really, really, really, really, really looking special. I have two notes. One, I am confused about releasing two really grand new trailers basically a week apart.

That strikes me as a little strange. I don't totally know why that happened because there was a new trailer like a week ago. If you want to hear us talk about it, we had all bought on it. And then this one and they're totally different. But still, you know, a bounty of riches. Who am I to complain? This did spark a supremely bizarre few hours of sorrow.

conversation on Twitter that was really, really, really weird. And that was not part of the hype boosting, to be clear. But the trailer itself, wonderful. Anything you want to say on the Sauron front? We can talk about this now. What category did you have it coming in? Now I want to know. Wig watch, because there's so much conversation. So...

So there's a person in the trailer with like a blonde buzz cut, essentially, that's launched a million fantastic Eminem jokes. A friend of the pod, Dave Gonzalez, started calling this person 8 Mile Sauron and texted me. A lot of confusion, sadness.

seeded by some Twitter accounts going kind of rogue. This is not Sauron. This is 100% absolutely not. No question about it. Not Sauron. The person playing this character is an actress, Bridey Sasson, which is not to say. Sauron's a shapeshifter. And there's definitely Sauron could be a woman at some point, could be an animal at some point. That could happen. But

The big thing to know about Sauron, who was called Annatar in this time period, is that he comes in the guise of someone, like, friendly and... Fair. Fair is the word in the text. And so not, I mean...

is very alluring looking in this trailer, but also, like, so evil looking. And the thing about Sauron is Sauron's not going to roll up looking evil. Sauron's going to roll up looking friendly. And the creator, Patrick and JD, and, um,

Some interviewer sort of saying Sauron's going to be someone you don't expect. And I think this is a big thing they're going to be playing with this. I mean, it already is a big thing they're playing with where there were there a couple of characters like the unnamed meteor man, et cetera, who are mystery characters. And I think the whole thing they're going to want us to be wondering at home is like, is that Sauron? Is that Sauron? Is that Sauron? Like all over the place. But it's not going to be someone who's going to show up and like,

looking hella evil. That's not happening. Should be a fun eight weeks on Twitter. Oh, boy.

kind of bad that that... I mean, it's funny, but I felt kind of bad that that's what happened because it felt like that's all anyone was talking about when the trailer itself is such like a banger that there's this whole little Balrog, you know? Yeah, totally. That's part of why I wanted to pick it as my hype booster because it's like, this was an amazing trailer and there's consistently every glimpse we get so much more to be energized about and hyped for six weeks out from the debut of the show that I think is going to be great. So to only be like lost in this...

weird Twitter discourse. Yeah, I agree. It's like a shame. There was so much amazing stuff in this trailer. It was gorgeous. Yeah, I'm excited. Rings of Power. Now I have to scramble to find another wig watch candidate, but I will get there. I believe in you. Joanna, I believe in you. Thank you. Thanks.

Oh, and as for why we got two Rings of Power trailers, I think it's just the constant dick-measuring contest between HBO and Amazon, right? So, like, Rings of Power puts out a teaser. HBO puts out a trailer for House of the Dragon. Amazon puts out a trailer. So, like, we are, like...

the children of divorced parents getting double holiday presents. Right. You know? Yep. So mom and dad are fighting for our attention and affection, which means we get double presents. So I guess, yeah, I guess I can't complain. I loved, uh, I loved cashing in for, for multiple Hanukkahs, you know, it's great. Great stuff. Um,

Next superlative. Also very open to interpretation here. This one is the thing that we're most impatient for. Now, this could be something that

we did not hear about, like a property, a title that we are just still waiting for any kernel of insight regarding. This could be something that we got a ton on and now you're even more excited to have it on your screen than you were before or any number of other interpretations as well. I make guesses that we're going to have interpreted this one differently, but I'm excited to find out what is your pick?

This is where I'm going to return to Marvel briefly and say that with the confirmation of Kang Dynasty, with Jonathan Major showing up for his first Comic-Con, for the confirmation from Feige, something we already pretty much knew, but the confirmation from Feige that we're going to get many, many different variants of Kang. And I know we're going to get him in Quantumania, right? He's on the poster, but like,

you know, a reminder that Thanos was, like, seeded in. I'm really excited just to see Jonathan Majors. Like, as soon as he showed up in Loki, we were all like, we can't wait to see Kang in every single thing. In every single thing. And we haven't seen him since. I know. And that's okay. I mean, like, we know that Kang, that he was also a late addition to Loki, right? Like, right up until the end, they weren't sure they were going to get to use him in Loki. I mean, and boy, did they use him, but they weren't sure they were going to get to. So, like,

There's still a much more runway required for King to show up and everything. But post-Quantumania, it's possible that Jonathan Major is going to be in literally every single thing we see in various variances like that. And I cannot fucking wait for that. So the Majors take over. I'm so right there with you. It's going to be thrilling. I'm so excited. I am sad that we have to wait even just a few more months. It was really fun to see that poster.

Really, really fun to see the poster. And to hear Feige, like you're saying, in his interviews after the panel, just like, you know, hinting at all of these different variants, all of these... Because each one's a different character, really. Like, it's just going to be... What an amazing acting challenge, too. And what a treat for us as viewers to get to see so many different versions of Kang. That's a great pick. I considered that, and I considered also just going back to the X-Men update well here, because I am impatient for it. But I decided to...

For once in my life, show some discipline and not talk about Marvel again. And instead, Joe, I'm going to talk about Game of Thrones again. I'm sorry. I can't help it.

This is another cheat. It's so long. It's another cheat, but I just wanted to talk about the House of the Dragon for a minute because obviously we just did our deep dive trailer breakdown just a few days ago on the feed. So go listen to that. Check that out if you haven't. And so we've had our House of the Dragon chat, really. But...

I just couldn't bring myself to not pick it for any of the categories. I just had to. And so this was the one. This was the one where I decided to make it work. Now, as you know, my hype for House of the Dragon is supreme. It grows by the day. It grows by the hour. It grows by the minute. It grows with every glimpse. I have gone through the domed roof of the Dragon Pit and I'm up as high as the red comet. I'm in the stratosphere of hype.

Even though we got the trailer before the panel, this was still the thing that

in addition to the Marvel panel, obviously, that I was like, okay, I need to just be like refreshing Twitter every three seconds here. I can't miss a thing. I want to track this as closely as possible. Shout out to my dude, Jay, moderating the panel. Great look for my guy, Jason Concepcion. Great stuff. That was so fun to see. It was so wonderful to see George just out in the world talking about his story again. Like when George says things about

the characters are like his children. It, it like fills my heart in a way that is difficult to describe. It is just such a meaningful part of my life as a fan and a consumer of shows and books and stories. Like seeing a new cast, seeing all of these new actors who are embodying these roles. Like Joe, we were sending each other Instagrams, Patty, all,

And Steve Toussaint and Yves Best just, like, having a blast together. And you see these bonds and this real, like, affection that develops between the people who are making this thing and in this world together. And, like...

I think even though we got the trailer a couple days ago, seeing that part of it unfold here, the immersive experience on the ground at Comic-Con, fans in their cosplay, people posing on the throne, pretending to be beheaded. Like, I was just like, we're back. We are back. And that part of it, that shared communal experience and celebration of the thing, I missed so, so much. And so even though it is only a month away and it seems ridiculous to say I'm impatient for it,

It's like the thing that is occupying my thoughts more than anything else right now. I just cannot wait to be in Westeros again. My friend Ashea, who did the like, there was a, you know, interactive experience where you could like hatch a dragon egg was like a whole thing. There were so many fun, like immersive experience. I don't know if you saw any of like the severance ones coming out of there. Anyway, yeah, they did a lot of

I've done a few of those in the past. The Westworld one was obviously like the biggest, like that one was bananas where they took over a whole ghost town at South by they took over a neighboring ghost town in Austin, Texas and just like made it Westworld. That was incredible. But, um, the, uh, the,

there are like less good ones like there was one year there was a Thrones thing at South by where basically like you walked up and then you like looked in a little viewfinder and you saw like 10 seconds of footage and it was just like ghost howling that John was dead and I was just like what is this what am I watching I don't know I mean based on how much of the end of Game of Thrones went I would have taken 10 seconds of ghost footage personally but you know fair enough but I think to your point the big story and like

Is George being on that panel because he – He was amazing. There were many years that he did not come to Comic-Con partially because everyone was like, George R. R. Martin, don't you dare leave your house until you finish these books. That sucked. But also because as was outlined in the THR article, like creatively he felt pushed to the side towards the end of the run of Thrones. I don't –

No, and that's just true. You know, he used to write episodes and then he stopped writing episodes and he used to just be able to speak more authoritatively and then he was just not as involved in creative decisions. So a big part of this whole story of House of the Dragon is how, like, you know, HBO doubles down and invests in George in this big overall deal in 2021 and then they're bringing him back creatively in a bigger way for House of the Dragon. Like, it's still Miguel Sapochnik and Ryan Condal's show more than it is George's, but, like,

He's just much more looped in. And after we record... You and I did... We crashed some prep for that house. I mean, we're always ready to talk about Thrones, you and I. We've done it for so long. But we crashed a bit of prep for the trailer drop that took us a little bit by surprise last week. But after we recorded...

I would just like kept reading. You just wanted to keep going. Me too. I just kept reading. Same. I was just sort of like, I'm in it. Yeah, my schedule has changed. This is just the thing I'm reading again now and I'm doing my rewatch and I'm doing both of them in tandem and this is like how I'm spending my time and I couldn't be happier. Incredibly stressed out too, to be clear. Filled with anxiety and nerves, but also so excited. No, I'm just like, yeah, I'm so excited. So many dragons. Can't wait. Dragons. The gods.

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Should we go to our next superlative? Yeah.

Tune in. Animation amazement. What do you got? So many animated goodies at Comic-Con. What is your pick? What excited you the most? We're going to have the same one here. I feel sure. There was a whole Marvel Studios animation panel, but I cannot be myself and not pick the Avatar. Yeah.

movie that Avatar Studios is doing. A little context here. So like, um, Jan Farnie who voiced Cora sort of did a video to announce the fact that they are doing, um, an Avatar film from what the, what is called Avatar Studios, uh, which is the adult, uh,

version of the Aang gang, which is Zuko, Sokka, Katara, and Toph, and Aang. And that has been explored a bit in some of the Avatar comics that I've read. I've read all of them and stuff like that, but to see them all is really exciting. There's a little, again, a little smidge of

Maui grabbed Appa right now and Momo. Appa and Momo are here to express Maui's excitement. I'll cradle them in my arms as we continue. Just a little tiny bit of cold water here is that this means that, because it was previously announced that there would be a Kiyoshi, Avatar Kiyoshi film. And this is going, I don't know if it's going first instead of

or if we'll just get Kyoshi later and they decide to go with a more identifiable brand or whatever. I'm really excited for a Kyoshi movie. Avatar Kyoshi is killer. So I'm excited for that. So I'm impatient for that, but I am excited for this to see my faves back together again. And then also we should say, so Avatar Studios is...

The official from the creators of Avatar versus what Netflix is doing. This is not the Netflix live action. Yeah, so the Netflix live action was originally...

Brian Konietzko and Michael DiMartino, the creators of Avatar Encore, were going to do the live-action TV show for Netflix, and then they left the production, which bodes very ill. Super concerning! Deeply troubling. Very ill. Yeah. For that live-action Avatar show. And

And they created Avatar Studios instead and are sort of teaming back up with their pals at Nickelodeon, et cetera, to do these animated features, et cetera. So, yeah. This is my pick, too. I mean, there is ample fodder on the Marvel front here, too, from the animation panel. You know, the I Am Groot trailer was precious. Just darling. I loved it.

Spider-Man freshman year, The What If Season 2, Timing News, Marvel Zombies, X-Men 97. There's a lot of cool stuff to pick from there. But yeah, it's impossible to not pick Avatar Aang and pals as adults in a new story and a new slice of the timeline that we haven't seen before. This is a gift. I cannot wait. This is absolutely thrilling. I hope that we get...

A ton of these. You know, the idea of getting three animated films. Like, why stop there? Let's just keep going. Oh, yeah. Well, yeah. Let's all make sure we support these heavily. Yeah. And then we'll just get more and more and more. Give me a musical with, like, give me a, maybe let's go back in time and do a musical with Uncle Iroh. What do you think? Okay. Give me just, like, nothing but the Ember Island players. Like, you know. Yeah.

Oh, just wonderful. I can't wait for this. Give me, no, the, the, um, the spinoff that I've been like dying for forever is about the first Avatar one, uh, voiced by Steven Yeun. And like, I don't know why that hasn't happened yet. We got like a two parter or maybe one part. I can't remember. I think it was two parter, uh, episode, uh, in core inside Cora, but I want the whole, give me one all the time. Steven Yeun at all.

I'm in. Yeah. All right. Those are our superlatives, but we have a couple rapid fire bonus goodies here. Yeah. Because it wouldn't be our pod if we didn't do the following things. Wig watch, and we're going to combine it with fit watch. I suspect you'll have a wig and I'll have a fit. Jo, what is your wig watch award winner for all of Comic-Con? This is so hard because there's also like- You going Sandman?

So much good. Oh, yeah, maybe you're right. That's a good one. Okay. I have a lot of questions about this. So let's talk about Sandman. Great. Great. Great. Let's talk about Sandman, which we did not talk about. I thought about giving up, but I have a job to do when I do it. Things have changed. Your eyes will tell me everything. Every thought, every feeling.

Sam is coming soon, very soon from Netflix. Yeah. We have not seen it yet. Quite literally in days. That does make me anxious. The wig on Gwendolyn Christie as Lucifer. I have a lot of questions.

Chiefly what happened and also why. Those are my main questions there. What did you think of this trailer in general? So after I saw the trailer, which actually made me a little worried, I heard from someone who has seen a bunch of episodes who is a huge Gaiman fan. And they were telling me that they were like, I was so... This person was super skeptical and then saw it and said they really did it. So I was like, okay. And is a huge...

say I'm a comics fan and Neil Gaiman fan. And so I was like, okay. You know, they've made a lot of choices here that some of which excite me and some of which like,

Jenna Coleman, usually I'm supportive of all Joannas, but Jenna Coleman playing Joanna Constantine, who is a character in the comics, versus us getting a John Constantine, who's like one of my all-time, like you can smell the stale cigarette smoke coming off the page when you read about John Constantine, like one of my favorite dirtbags of all time. I'm sorry to not see him there. And I think overall, I think it's, to me, it looks a little shiny, like it's missing some of that like,

90s DC Comics vibe to me. A lot of this is very apparently filmed on green screen, like, because the world of Sandman is quite fantastical. So, like, you know, maybe that will all feel great. I will say that I think that, um,

Boyd Holbrook as the Corinthian just absolutely ran all the way away with this trailer, which is not... A lot of Boyd in this trailer. Yeah, not what I would have guessed. Because Corinthian's a really creepy, cool character, but not the main character of these first two arcs that they're doing. And a significant character, but not the main character. So I don't know. A dream...

is a, you know, the main character is a hard character. But like, I would have expected more death or like, you know, more of some other things than so much Boyd. But Boyd is just like cooking with gas. Yeah. Appears to be having a blast. Like having a great time.

The Southern accent is thick. Chris Ryan's favorite. Yeah. He must have been thrilled by that trailer. Oh, because of Narcos? He just loves Boyd. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because Chris is such a Narcos head. I am not a Narcos head. But like, so when Boyd pops up, I'm like, every time he pops up and he's great, I'm like, should I watch Narcos? And then I don't watch Narcos. This is a true story. I have been walking down the street with Chris Ryan before and witnessed people passing by in cars and lowering their windows and shouting, not, Chris, I love you. I love the watch. I love the ring. They just shout. Yeah.

It's a thing that happens. It's amazing. What do you want to say about the Sandman trailer? I'm really excited for the show. I feel like we haven't gotten as much as I would have expected in the run-up to it. It just hasn't been marketed as heavily. We just haven't seen as much as I thought we would have. So it's sort of like, oh my God, we're on the eve of this season dropping in full. Good old Netflix. Yeah.

Love a binge. Love to figure out how to podcast on a binge. And I'm really curious to see it. You know, been flipping through the pages and getting energized, getting ready. But yeah, we just haven't seen much. I can't believe it's in... We have two weeks. Two weeks. Oh my God. The fact that the hype isn't higher for this property...

Like, it's giving me Cowboy Bebop, like, flashbacks. And we all know how that went. And then, you know, there's also been some gaming properties, you know, gaming properties that, like, haven't been as successful on TV. So, like, you know, a lot of people like Good Omens. A lot of people didn't like American Gods. Like, it's mixed. So, I have no idea. I don't know what to think. I really hope it's great. But the point at the end of the day, the point is, Gwendolyn Christie, you are a beautiful woman.

Why did you let them do that to you in the wig department? I'm going with FitWatch. I'll leave wig watch to you. The true expert. I have a FitWatch, but I want to hear what yours is. Yeah. It's John Wick time, baby. John Wick chapter four time here. Hell yeah. Hell yeah. We have to talk about the John Wick teaser that we got because it was, as is always the case with the new John Wick trailer, riveting. Riveting. And...

seeing the all black suit will almost always lead to a fit watch accolade and to see the Bowery King enter and hold it up and say, you're ready, John. And then to get the really drawn out. Yeah, it's all I need. Yeah. Yeah.

I get to like bloody my hand a little bit to maybe really solidify and cement the effect. You know, I was going to ask you because I didn't have a pick for wig watch. Does the axe in the head also seen in the John Wick trailer count as wig watch? No, it's a hat watch.

I would like to cheat and double down on this corner by giving you my FitWatch answer, which is like, here's the deal. We didn't talk a lot about DC, and that's okay. John Wick is technically Warner Brothers, so that is in the Warner Brothers presentation that the DC panel was part of, right? Okay, so that's true. You going a little Fury of the Gods on me here? I just want to talk about, you know, Dwayne The Rock Johnson's commitment to the bit, showing up in spandex at his panel. This is great.

If Black Adam does not take off, it will not be for lack of effort on the part of Dwayne The Rock Johnson, who is like really trying to do it. Unfortunately, I have to say that like if you're going to show up in character, you're going to pull the old Tom Hiddleston as Loki, dominating Hall H. It helps if we know the character already. Do you know what I mean? And like people know Black Adam from comics. But like, you know, I've seen, I've seen like,

ravagers from guardians at a Marvel panel and costume get more of a reaction than like, not, that's not true. That's not fair. I don't know. I just like what's going on with black Adam. I would like, I would like this to be great. I am hopeful for it, but like just shout out to, to Dwayne for, for doing what he feels like he needs to do. The rock is leaning all in. He really believes in the project. It's inspiring to see. Um,

What did you make while we're on DC for a second here? What did you make of the Shazam Fury of the Gods trailer? Are you a Shazam head? I love Shazam. Yeah, same. I love Shazam. Same. I loved the first Shazam movie so much. What a delight. I love Shazam. Yeah. And like Shazam, so like, you know, Wonder Woman and Shazam, the first Wonder Woman and Shazam came out at a time at like the height of what's going on over there, DC? What are you doing, right? And like the grimdark Zack Snyder

And so Wonder Woman comes to bring a slight counterbalance and then Shazam goes like full, you know, they're doing...

They're doing Tom Hanks in big. Like, that's what they're doing with Shazam. And Zach Levi is phenomenal. And I love that film. And so I'm really hoping that the sequel lands better than the Wonder Woman sequel did, which sort of, like, you know, dulled our enthusiasm for Wonder Woman. I'm hoping that this just, like, makes our Shazam enthusiasm bigger, higher.

higher, faster, stronger baby sort of thing. Yeah. I'm a big Shazam fan. Me too. I love Shazam. I was hyped for this trailer. I thought it looked really fun. The world melting cannon colliding moment when Shazam mentioned the Fast and the Furious when he made the Fast and the Furious joke to Helen Mirren, Mama Shaw herself. Spectacular.

Mama Shaw herself. Oh, great stuff. When are we getting the like Helen Mirren Mama Shaw spinoff movie? God, can't come soon enough. Okay, great. All right. Lastly. Yeah. Secret Scroll. Yeah. We do it every time. We're probably going to do it more than we ever have before. No.

We're inching toward secret invasion. Who is your secret scroll for the con itself? This is so easy. It's Hugh Grant. Like all very obviously it's Hugh Grant. This is a great book. Yeah. I was tempted to pick Hugh Grant here, but I didn't want to. I didn't want to get on your on your corner here. This is your turf. Thank you. I'm going with Andrew Lincoln. Oh.

Good old Walking Dead smuggle. Tell me why Andrew Lincoln is your smuggle. Good old Walking Dead in the end. Tell me why. So they announced a Rick and Michonne spinoff coming in 2023. And so the primary Walking Dead, I will say I have not watched Walking Dead in a... It's been a minute. I used to watch it and I used to love it, but it's been a minute for me. And so to see...

Andrew Lincoln and his resplendent kingly gray beard walk back out on that stage and delight the masses with the news that while they did not get the Rick Grimes movies they were promised years ago, they are getting this because the Walking Dead universe will never stop. It will never stop. You know, you find a way to

stop the zombies, the walking dead themselves, the titular walking dead, Joe, you find a way to stop them, but you can't stop content. That's one of the things that I know to be true. And so Andrew Lincoln is my pick for Secret Scroll. Just coming back into the fold. What do you think?

I have to say, like, I've been to, well, yeah, The Walking Dead. What a weird comedown for that phenomenally popular property. I used to love, love Walking Dead. I was at, I've been to a couple Walking Dead Hall H panels. And when I tell you that it just used to be

Norman Reedus and Andrew Lincoln flirting with each other for an hour while the crowd just screamed their head off. That's all the Walking Dead panels used to be. And it was just like, they just had to like breathe in the direction of the microphone and the crowd went wild. And so it's just like, I don't know. It's wild that the show is still going. But the flagship is wrapping up. But as you say, content never sleeps. So, uh...

We'll get more in the years to come. Are we really going to end with The Walking Dead? Well, I was going to ask the guys, Jomie and Steve. Arjuna left us, but Jomie and Steve, any other Comic-Con highlights or superlatives that you want to toss out? Anything else either from one of the categories that we already hit or just another pick of your own making that you want to mention?

that stood out to you? Well, you guys already talked about Avatar and you know where I stand. Yeah. You know, I was excited about it. It's a great moment for the Ringerverse. It's just incredible. We worked so hard. You know, we put so much time into this game. And so, you know, for us to be rewarded like that on such a grand scale, you know, we deserve nothing more. Truly. But something else I was excited about

There's a show on Netflix called The Dragon Prince. And I mean, I think honestly the last time it came out was either 2019, 2020. And we've been waiting for news about season four. When's it coming? It's been a minute.

And we finally got, not only did we get a date, we also got some footage. I'm excited for the Dragon Prince. Steve? That's awesome. I just have to say, that's a classic Jomie answer. That's an arcane Jomie answer to what you're excited about. I'm tapped in. Great show. I'm tapped in, Joe. Great show.

Steve, what about you? Do you have any other highlights? Any other awards? I'm weirdly, I have this weird curiosity about what season three of The Wheel of Time is going to bring. Yeah.

Because I feel like we're really pushing forward with that. But you're not interested in season two? You're just focused on season three? Yeah, I was literally going to say, was there a season two of Will of Time? There's no way to know. Did we miss that? I'm excited to know that Amazon's pushing forward for that. I like to know that that's going to keep growing because that's genuinely exciting for me. That's awesome. Have you completed your exploration of the text?

No, that will take a minute. We know that Steve is a huge Rosamund Pike head, right? You're like all in on Pike. Heads on Pikes. Yeah, yeah. Heads and hearts on Pikes. It was cool to see season three announced. I'm with you, Steve. That gave me hope that they're committing to continuing to build that world. I got to dip back into the text. I can't let Zach Barron down.

Anything else before we go? Any other highlights? What's the like event or piece of merch or, you know, whatever that you most wish you could have gotten your little hands on? Oh, easily. It's the hundreds of thousands of dollars camera ready Grogu puppet that was blowing up the Internet. Yeah, that's that was special.

Oh, this is easy for me. There was an Infinity Gauntlet that was at San Diego Comic-Con made of real gems.

And real gold valued at around $25 million. Yes, the exact asking price at which they would snipe an indie director's other film for. Yes. So, you know, I talked to my guys at the accounting firm. I talked to my bankers. We're getting a bid together. You know, so we'll see how that goes. But I was like, I can afford that, right? Yeah, like, that's easy. I need that in my bag on the way home. I need it.

I'm going to send you a link, Jomie, for the Lego version of the Infinity Gauntlet, which is about $25 million cheaper. Just as great. But does it have a real yellow diamond? Does it come with a ruby? That just sounds like a lot of pressure to me. I don't know. Who wants to be tending to that many jewels? Me and Thanos, clearly. And Smaug.

You don't want to sit on top of your, you don't want to sit on top of your hoard, Mallory. You don't want to just gather jewels and gemstones and ducats beneath your body and just sit on top of it. Never seemed like a particularly comfortable place to rest to me. All right. We thought the pod at last was ended and we were right. It's over. That's a wrap. That's it. Thank you to the members of our coven.

Yeah, hell yeah. I think it's going to stick. Yeah. How smart. The coming of chaos. It works. It does. Steve Ullman for producing this episode. Arjuna Ramgopal for his additional production work on this episode. And Jomia Deneron for his work on the social for this episode. Remember, tune back in on Friday for the mid-edition breakdown of the Harley Quinn premiere. Until then, we are Groot. ♪

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