Inside San Quentin Continues
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Man, what's happening, man? You got Marshawn, Beast Mode, Lynch. Doug Hendrickson. And Gavin Newsom, and you're listening to Politicking. You know the beat. You know the beat.

So, Doug, Doug, Marshawn, what was that? I mean, it's been about a week or so. What was the experience like going into San Quentin? Doug, I think it was the first time you've been inside San Quentin, right? It was eye-opening and it was enlightening because, truthfully, when I went there, I expected to...

you know, a much, much different perspective than I thought. I mean, when I got there, seeing these inmates and prisoners who literally, the programs that San Quentin had and their mindset that, you know, incarcerated, if they don't get out or they get out, to have the programs in place to have these guys' lives changed in terms of

their mindset was so enlightening. I did not expect to meet the 60, 70, 80 prisoners that I did that had the mindset they'd have. And it blew me away. I bet. I mean, one of the things, I imagine if you've never been there, and I remember the first time I went to San Juan, what really surprised me is that you can walk into the yard

And there are hundreds and hundreds of prisoners and folks can walk right up to you. You can talk. I mean, we were talking to lifers. We were talking to folks that may never see the light of day. And they're all out there in the yard. People seem to be getting along. They're willing. I mean, they're willing. The guards are willing to allow you to walk around. I mean, was that something you had anticipated or you thought it would be a little bit more organized? I thought you'd see, honestly, I thought you'd see the...

Hispanics in one side, the blacks. I thought you'd see the segregation in terms of the prisoners like you see in the movies. But to see these guys walk up and how appreciative they were that we were there, how appreciative they were that the prison in San Quentin with the warden had the programs that they have.

and all the things that they're allowed to do to walk freely and to take part in math programs and the podcast room that they have and the different things they're doing was completely eye-opening to me in a great way. Marshawn, you ever met a warden like that? Nah. That wasn't the kind of warden you expected, right? But the thing, the biggest thing that stuck out to me about him was...

you know, the gentleman that we was talking to that was from Oakland. And he like, yeah, man, I know this. Like, man, you know, we've been doing time together. Like, you feel me? I remember he used to come run up in my cell and hella shit. You know, we bumping it out and then to see like, you know, them two just sitting down being able to, you know what I mean, reminisce on what it was like, you know what I mean, back in the days considering, you know, how far they have came on, on, on, on,

you know, for both of them and, you know, their relationship and being able to just see them have a conversation. It was more so like, you know what I mean? That was more so like you running into one of your old school partners that you used to fight all the time when y'all was younger. And, you know what I mean? Like, boy, you remember I used to chase your ass now? Like, hell yeah. You remember I was hiding all that dope from you? Like, you know, I had it, but you couldn't find my shit. Boy, I had my shit in a good, but it was just like, uh, for me to see that,

the warden had a mindset like, damn, I've really been doing time with you. And as much time as you've been doing, I've been doing it as well. So, you know, when I look at that situation and, you know, I mean, you know, you look at it from an institutionalized situation, it's like these wardens, these CEOs, you know what I mean?

They going into prison and they doing this time to now under the circumstances in the situation like you going in here to to to to get a check to be able to, I mean, take care of your family and shit. But the way that he was just making it, I mean, in a situation where like, you know, we we being integrative here, like, you know, I mean, I go and talk to my guys like, hey, you know, what can we do? I mean, in order to help.

I mean, make this, you know, I mean, as as as comfortable as it is. And I'm not sure if I was around while we were having the conversation, but he was saying he gave a, you know, I mean, a scenario like, you know, you get a 20 year old and I mean, have a run in with the law.

And then, you know, from there, get arrested, go to the county. And then, you know what I mean, from that officer that he come into contact with, it's not a good interaction. Then the DA, not a good interaction. Then you go into court and now you talking to the motherfucking judge and the judge talking down at you, not a good situation. And then, you know what I mean, you do your county time, you interacting with the guards in there, not a good situation.

And then, you know what I mean? They come and they drop you off to the pen. And the motherfucker was like, I had to, you know, tell my guards and shit like, hey, you know what I mean? When these individuals step off the fucking bus, like,

These are still humans considering, you know, they fucked up and they did what they did. But at the end of the day, you're about to be here with this individual for a long time. So you go ahead and establish a relationship with this individual. So while you're doing it, that takes less off your plate to the point where

you ain't here, you ain't got to look over your back. I know you hear so many times about, you know, in prison, the guards getting bum-rushed by inmates, this, that, and the third. But, you know what I mean? His mindset was to, you know what I mean? Well, we going to be here.

Ain't nothing we could do about it. I mean, regardless to whatever you've done to get in here. But basically, motherfucker, we finna be roommates. We finna be living here. So we might as well find a common ground where we could get an understanding to, yeah, I mean, for you, that I could feel safe. And for you, for you can feel safe. And I'm like, you know what, man, when you think about that process, like, yeah, why would I get off this bus going into the pen thinking like,

Oh, it's cool. Like, nah, hell nah. I'm pissed off. I'm mad as fuck. Along my journey has been fucked up. This, that, and the third. And I mean, you know, not to, I mean, look at it from a position of where, you know, whether you are incarcerated, like you've done what you've done. And now it come time to, you know, serve your time and do what you got to do. Like,

You know what I mean? You gotta make the most of it. And then when I talk to individuals, my family that is in there and I ask these individuals like, "Hey man, how you doing?" And when I talk to them and they coming from a standpoint of like, "I'm in a good space." And it fucks me up in my head.

damn, bro, you not coming outside. You not finna come home. But for you to be, I mean, to have a mindset like, you know, one day at a time and I'm in a good space. I mean, I got a program, a regiment. I mean, I stick to that. And, you know, I got to serve my time. It's like, fuck. But then I can see where that situation would come from after having a conversation with a warden that maybe, you know what I mean, operate the way that he do.

And what's so special about this, I love what, I mean, I think that distinction that you just made, and I loved hearing it as you did from the warden, saying we're both doing time together.

I mean, this idea that they share that experience and to have the warden top down, to have a lot of guards, not all of them. I mean, we're doing a lot of reforms and not everybody's on board, but a lot of the guards are on board because they recognize that. They want to create a safer environment. They want an environment where people are more respected. And to your point, if they turn their back, they're not worried about what's going on behind their back every single minute of every single day.

But I think what was special about this warden is he has his own lived experience with his own family and the fact that he had family members doing time and grew up in that environment and with a deeper perspective of understanding. So we're lucky as hell to have this guy at San Quentin leading the way in this transformation of one of the most iconic prisons in the world, what we call the California model.

And so what you guys saw in the yard is what we want to see a lot more of as we increase scale, 10X, the programming there. We physically redesigned that facility just as we did with death row. And I'm curious for you guys, I mean, I don't know if you've been on death row before. We call it East Block at San Quentin. What was that experience like to physically walk in to death row?

Well, before I get to that, Gavin, I mean, just looking at the non-lifers and looking at the cells that those guys had that might get out in 10, 15, 5, 10, 15, 20 years, whatever. To understand that when you put your hands to the side, you can touch the walls. When you put your hands above, you can touch the ceiling.

And if you're six foot two, six foot whatever it may be, and you have a cellmate, you can't turn around without going back to back to get around the cell. To be able to live in those conditions and think you might get out in five, ten years without the programs,

that San Quentin has, you have no hope. And I can see that if these guys get out in other prisons that don't have the programs and the hope that they're given them, how do you get out and expect to join the real world and function and be a member of society as a father, as a husband, as whatever it may be, go for it? It's mind-blowing. So, I mean, kudos to San Quentin because these inmates that have a chance to get out, even the ones that don't,

their mindset is the right way, which is pretty cool to see. To walk through death row was eerie. It was my hair raising on my arms. It was really, really weird to see that part of it to walk through. And I can see both sides. I can see as a parent,

If your son or daughter gets killed and they're there, you could see, hey, you know what? I want him to stay there or I want him to get killed. I don't know what I would do if this was my son or daughter. I don't know. I can't tell you unequivocally. But to walk through there, it was eerie and it was weird. And it was tough to see, no question about it. Yeah, Marshawn, what was it like for you? I mean, you walked in. I don't know how long you stuck around. I mean, what was that like?

For me, man, that ain't, you know what I mean? That ain't something that, you feel me? I don't, that ain't something I would say like I glorify. So, you know what I mean? You know what I mean? I think what I maybe stepped in maybe three, four, five steps. And then, you know, I got the fuck up out of there. But just the mentality of just, you know what I mean? Understanding that you got motherfuckers locked in that box in that cage. That's, that's some,

I mean, that's some deep shit. Now, I understand. You feel me? You do that situation. You do the crime. You do the time type shit. So for me, man, just like even just thinking about it, it's like I don't even want to go and put myself in a position where I even go get a visual or some shit like that. Because, I mean, at the end of the day, my motto is, you feel me, though? I'm trying to last, not come in last. And just going even, just for me, just even going in there and getting a

I mean, a glimpse of it, like, nah, nigga, I don't want that. For real, for real. So, I mean, you can go. I imagine it was like that, too, when we were at the gas chamber, and then we went separately to the death chamber where they do the injections. Hell yeah. Like, man, that's some shit, like, you know what I mean? Like, I don't even want to see, like, even to the point where, you know, we was talking about it, you know, when my fucker came out, like...

That's some brutal shit. You put a motherfucker in there to... That walk over there, knowing that this finna be your last walk.

I mean, just the mindset of how that shit go. But understanding like, damn, there's some real fucked up shit. And I know I was saying to you earlier, like there's some barbaric shit, like who the fuck think of shit like this in order to just, you know what I mean? Take motherfuckers lives. It's just like another Tuesday. Another Tuesday could be Monday through Friday. I mean-

dozens of people right now are eligible to be executed. They've exhausted all their appeals. And I think for me, you know, I really wanted you guys to see that, particularly Doug, I think you came back with me and were the injection chair. That place since the last time we did an execution was 2006. They literally have not changed anything in that room. They just moved some of the chairs, but every single thing is the same, including the,

the phone on the wall with a red light above it with the governor. It says the governor. It doesn't say which governor. It says the governor waiting for that phone call to do a reprieve, to stop the execution, or allow the green light for the execution to go. I've been in there a couple times.

And you talk about, Doug, hair on your arms. I mean, that's just, that sits with you in a different way that you have the ability. It's like some gladiator, you know, putting up the thumb up or down, life and death. And so I appreciate, Marshawn, your sentiment about that, this notion that we can kill broken people, that we can do it in a premeditated way that somehow helps

We're saying it's wrong to kill people, but in the name of that, we execute someone. That's just hard for me to square. And as governor, that responsibility falls straight on my damn lap. Well, and the sad thing, Gavin, look, I mean, you know,

You and I weren't raised the same way that Marshawn was. A lot of people were, but to see some of these guys in there and to make a wrong turn in life, uh, you know, and end up, I mean, it's, it's not, it's not fair. It's, it's, uh,

It's really scary in a lot of ways. It was eye-opening. I think I was talking to a 24-year-old prisoner in there who talked about when he was... I think his mom was a prostitute. His dad wasn't there. Seven, eight, nine years old, had no food, didn't know what to do. I think he had his first... Stole some bread as a kid, and then he kind of evolved from there. But this kid had no chance in life. He had no chance. And he was...

And he got in and luckily he's got a chance to get out in 10, 15 years. But, you know, without the program San Quentin has, without the hope he's going to have going forward, I mean, this kid had no chance in life. And it's really sad. But most people in the world don't look at this and say, oh, well, he shouldn't have been in there. Okay, well, put yourself in issues. What are you going to do?

Really? I mean, that's the hard part. All powerful components of what we ultimately want to bring to light in this podcast. Well, Gavin, I applaud you for doing what you've done with San Quentin and all the prisons across California because it's making a difference. And to your point, when they do get out, they're going to be our neighbors, our community members and all that. And so what you've done is great. So I appreciate what you've done and taking us in there. How about one of those community members is my old teammate,

uh in twin cities little league in larkspur california uh and a kid that literally my age you met him doug we marshawn you guys all met him angelo mecky um who was our third baseman shortstop second baseman uh had everything going for him in life and just started hanging out with the wrong people i mean you talk about just this cry how any for the grace of god go any of us

One decision, hanging out with the wrong people. A couple bad decisions after that. And here he is, third striker. Third damn striker. But it was a hell of a thing.

to walk into that yard and meet a former Little League teammate who says, "Hey, Gavin, how's your sister doing?" And you're like, "What the hell are you talking about?" And find a guy who played for Round Table Pizza. That was the name of the team. My 11th, 12th year old Little League team. So it's life. And I think people really enjoy this podcast.

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Warden, I've had the privilege of being here at San Quentin News on a number of occasions and to see the evolution over the course of the last decade here and the multimedia and all the incredible work that they continue to do. Tell us a little bit about this space, maybe a little bit of history, and tell us a little bit about your journey. You're the newly appointed, tag you're it, warden of San Quentin, the iconic San Quentin, built in 1852, the oldest, oldest,

oldest state prison in the state of California? I would say it's the luckiest. I'm the luckiest person alive right now. And as far as my job, I'm leading the California model here at San Quentin State Prison. We're in our media room, which produces a podcast. It has a filming studio. It has a newspaper. The opportunity that the governor has given me is pretty cool. My journey is a little different. My father was incarcerated and out of jail.

So I grew up kind of having to make some tough choices. Yeah, so then me and you, we got kind of like, you know what I mean? Because that's how my pops were, you feel me? So I had to make a decision, man. You know, do I follow that trend or do I change? Well, how long was your dad in for? So I didn't see him a lot after he got incarcerated. He now passed, but he was a D number, which tells you it was probably about 30 years ago. He did some time in Chino and then he was in and out of jail. So he really wasn't relevant in my life. So I wanted to...

to distance myself from him. So I went into law enforcement because everybody assumed I was gonna go that path. And I started over 22 years ago

I started over 22 years ago when the three strikes law was in effect. No one told us how to do it. We just went in there and they just told us how it was. So to get the opportunity to actually give back to the community and get people ready to participate in our communities and give back, it's an amazing. That's strange that you even, you feel me, don't look at it like that. Because just when you hear like the ward type shit, that's like, hell no. Like, oh.

It was almost like the principal at school and shit like that. And then to hear him saying, like, you know, giving back to the community, like, for whatever, that shit just not, for me, it's not translating in my head to even think about it in that way. So when you say that, because you just threw out some shit that's big. When you say we're in the media room, like, y'all got a podcast, y'all got a,

First of all, these goddamn cameras that I've been seeing these guys walk around with, that's some state-of-the-art equipment type shit. So it sounds like, I mean, we was talking a little earlier, like the system and the mode that has been kind of for the last, I don't know how many goddamn years,

But when you came up and like, yeah, I'm the warden. We're like, damn, you look shit. You don't look a day over 21. And you say, you know what? You're trying to change things, trying to break the mold. Now, not just with your appearance, but your mindset and what you bring into the institution here. It's been hard just even coming in here because it's like, why the fuck would you be going into a prison? But then it's like,

You know what I mean? The history of my, you know, coming up here to visit my pops when I was hella younger than, you feel me, all of my people that just been through this system. And, you know what I mean? We have a whole different outlook on what prison is. And, I mean, when I looked up, did a little research, and it's like, it's a rehabilitation spot. But it's like, whenever somebody come home after doing their time, you feel me, though,

they seem to be in a worse off place than they was when they went in. And they went in probably on some, you know, I'm young, I'm dumb, I don't know. This is just what I got to do in order to feed my family or I got to protect myself and or whatever. I mean, it come down to it. But then when they get out, they're in a way fucked up more mindset. I mean, the world has passed them.

And I understand it's the, you know what I mean, the punishment. What is it? The fucking... The sentence? No, throw me the oop. We just was talking to...

my boy about consequences. Yeah. Like, yeah, you got to, you know, you take care of your consequences. That's what we're trying to change, exactly what you're saying. The opposition would say this is a public safety, but it's absolutely public safety because we're making citizens here, right? People that we put back in our community are going to have trades, degrees to give back to our community. So it is public safety. And that's what some people are struggling to realize. And I think one of the things, just a good reminder to everybody, 95% of folks in our system

end up back home and you want them broken, more pissed off, or do you want them to be more resourceful, more fully engaged? You want them to be your neighbors? You got to think in those terms. Who was I talking to recently? I was talking to an old Mexican mafia guy and he says, this guy was running the yard and he had a date. He goes, hey man, I got a date. Can I stop politicking? And that leadership in the Mexican mafia basically allowed that and said, yeah, you've always done your work for us. Don't mess with them.

Now, with the gangs, there's power. So you're not going to always get that type of green light or okay. That's a thing. So yeah, there's prison politics that we could write a book about. So you know what that sounds like to me? Because I asked this motherfucker, hey, why you don't run for president? And then it was an order just like what you just demonstrated right now. It's an order of how, you feel me, how they rock. And I'm like, oh shit. So when you politicking, you really...

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Of all the things that I've done as governor, the one thing I wasn't prepared for was this space. I mean, when you're campaigning out there, no one asked me what my relationship with prison reform was. They talk about criminal justice reform more broadly. I didn't understand the nature of debriefing. That never came up. There was no white paper that I had. I don't know what a gang debrief was. I didn't fully appreciate the parole process and didn't understand what

all of these nuances. But every single week I have life or death decisions, literally no bullshit. When you looking at that, what, what is it in your mind? Like, okay, if I see these type of, it's exactly what we just heard right there is, as you want, you can kind of talk away from,

I want to know the journey. I want to know that it's sincere. It's not bullshit. I want to know that you didn't just go into some program just to quote unquote, get a check. So you just stack in those checks to come to me. I want to know that you feel remorse that you feel for the victims that

that you have a relationship to the victims. Because at the end of the day, I think what happens when we have these conversations, people see it as it's right or wrong, black or white. You spend time with the folks that are incarcerated. It means somehow you're taken away from the families and the victims. And that's important to me that that has to be both end.

You got to come out feeling deeply responsible, accountable, remorseful, and you've got to come back a stronger person. And if you have that, if you have empathy, you have care, you have some goddamn compassion, and you could demonstrate that,

then that's determinative in terms of the people that we let go. Otherwise, if I feel just a bit, it's instinctual sometimes, and it's just immediately rejection. So how many times do you do that when you just look at the name, like Marshawn Lynch? Oh, nope, throw that back in there. You know what, that's what every governor used to do. You don't play with shit like that. Because I mean, when I go fill out job applications, I'm not hiring no motherfucking name, Marshawn. By the way, you see that. It's his name.

You feel me? That's a real thing. I know it. That's what I'm saying. But let me, let me tell you, let me tell you, it's only been since governor Brown had got an office, the previous governors, Democrats, not just Republicans. They rejected every single parole board recommendation. They didn't even look at it. And then they would look at the name or worse. They'd look at a picture and they go, they look and see if someone's got tatted up. Like, no, he's gone. I'm no bullshit.

And then race was a determinative damn factor. For sure. On getting in here and getting out of here. And so I don't see pictures. I don't care about the name. I quite literally look at the journey people are on. And I look, we have a risk assessment, a psychologist. I look at the programming. When did they debrief from the Mexican mafia? It's been 10 years. Are they clean and sober? Because most folks, a lot of them, and they fuck things up.

Because they start using again, even though they're parole eligible, they've done everything right. And they were dumb enough to go back. And I figure they're dumb enough to do that here. They're going to dumb enough to end up back on the goddamn streets and back in prison. I applaud you because I know, I know, I know how real this is for you. Yeah.

Free the gang, man. Free the squad. No, but I know we're going to talk about the goddamn death penalty. How about that on your conscience? Oh, man. Look. How about that on your conscience? Just let a motherfucker sit down and do their time. It's like, what is that you was talking about in the movies and shit? But the movies I be seeing, they was fucking people up. Like with the gas chambers and all those kind of shit. It's like,

Who go and think about creating some shit like that to fuck people? That's some sick shit. Well, I think it's pretty sick that we tell people it's wrong to kill. And so the name or in somehow in the spirit of saying it's wrong to kill, we kill people premeditated and we kill broken people, man. One thing everybody has in common, they come in here, they're broken.

They're broken some way, shape or form. And then the idea that we're killing broken people as a society systemically. And that was something, by the way, broken people, killing broken people, broken people, killing broken people. And so the question is, yeah, who's broken. If I'm sitting there, I think there's dozen, there's a couple dozen guys that were on San here in San Quentin eligible for me to put them to death.

that have gone through all their appeals. - I like how you just set that up too. - And no, I could have overseen dozens of things and that'd been on my watch, man. Like you decide, you'll go in. When we go in the injection room, you'll see the damn phone. You'll see the phone right there. And that's the governor's phone for the last phone call. And if there's no call,

I mean, that's on your conscience, man. Warren Whitman's the last one to come. I couldn't live like that. That's why I did the moratorium. So if you don't call, then they out of there? The governor has the ability at those last minutes to reprieve and calm you. I mean, that's their life or death. That's why I did a moratorium when I got here. I said, I can't do it. I'm not that guy. I can't do it. You can't. I'm like that. I talked to Schwarzenegger. He was the last guy to condemn something in 2006. That took some phone calls? And he said this very publicly, and it's not a knock on our door at all. He said it. He said it.

It was last time that was used, right? Warner was 2006. Yeah.

Who was it? It was Ray Allen. And Ray was a legendary guy for a lot of different reasons. And I asked, I said, I asked Arnold cause I had just done the moratorium. And I said, you know, I said, how was, how was just as a human level? And, and again, I only share this cause he's repeated it publicly. And he said, he said to me, no, you know, he said, well, I'll give you the accent. He said, you know, you know, you know, you know, I slept like a baby. He said, he slept like a baby. I'm like,

Whoa. And honestly, that like, that hit me in an intense way. He slept like a bit. You know what? Somewhere like I respect that he did.

And he was serious about it. I couldn't, I'm not that guy. I'm not wired like that. I couldn't do that. And so that was a heavy weight that also led to this California model. It's one thing to do a moratorium, but we got to do a moratorium on stupidity, doubling down on stupid and the recidivism rates that are off the damn charts. People are less safe as a consequence of our stupidity. And we needed to start doing programming, but at scale, not onesie, not little small ball stuff.

And the great thing about San Quentin, and Warden was saying this, is it's so proximate. And proximity is a powerful word just generally. And that's why I keep coming back to the prisons because I want to be proximate to what's happening inside so I make better decisions on the outside. But the proximity here and what I'm relating to is so many people that want to volunteer. And it's one of the reasons this is a service-rich environment and why I wanted to change that environment at scale today.

by investing in this California model at a whole nother level where success leaves clues. If we can prove it here, we can then lay this thing out, lay the tracks for reforming the rest of the system. This is the biggest system in the United States of America. We're the largest desk well in the Western hemisphere. We have more prisoners in our system than any other state in America. If we can change it here, warden's power, if you can change it here, the

paradigm that you shift in this country with 5% of the world's population, but 25% of the people that are incarcerated. How much does it cost to house and take care of

What's the latest number? We were at $106,000 two years ago. What are we up to this year? I think it's about $120,000. Yeah, per person. $120,000. Damn! Now I know why California got the motherfucking fifth largest economy in the world. But you know what? Craig! You want to have a... They didn't guala! Put me in the mix. You're going to be our budget director. $100,000, man.

And you want to know why? You want to know why? You were talking out of the yard, Marshawn. Now you want to have a real conversation? You want to know why?

You want to know what the contracts are to make phone calls here? You want to know what the racket is there? You want to know what the procurement racket is in the prison industries and how people are making a fortune off incarcerating people? You want to know what's going on with private prisons in this country that are incentivizing more folks being locked up for a longer period of time and making a fortune and the lobbyists that are being hired and the lives that are being destroyed so people can make money? That's goddamn right. That is a huge part of this whole thing, a huge part of it.

Don't think for a second you're wrong about that. Everything you say we're in the yard was spot on. People are selling you fear and anxiety, and that's what this is about. It's fear and anxiety. It's fear-based, and it's fueled by anger, and it's understandable because people want to be safe.

And they want, and I get that. And victims need to be respected and we need to connect them. I think we need to connect to that much more. But this has become a racket and breaking up this racket is hard and the opposition is real and it's not about politics. So I'm about to say, you better be careful, bro, because when you get to talking like that, shit.

stern and all that type of shit like dear my boy. You motherfuckers, they be creeping and shit, man. Hey, look. I just rode over here with you. Like I said, I like living. I like waking up, brushing my teeth after long nights of getting some Ooskies tearing shit down.

But the truth is, I like living. And you know what? You a hot boy. You was talking about the gangs and shit. I tell him they got the red and the blue. The red and the blue. With the politics shit. So he familiar with gang culture? You know what I mean? Just how you broke it down. The red and the blue. The red and the blue. I hope you all heard what he just said, man. If anybody know, you can probably...

You could probably give me some insight. So when he turned his mic off and all of that, we get rid of him. Then I need to holler at you. So we can talk about it, man. Yeah, so you can let me know. Every time we talk about gang stuff, he said, don't talk to me about gang stuff. How about the gang you're in out there in politics? Yeah. No, are you serious? He's like, nothing. Right? It is. Look, here, Brown Zero. Let's do it.

They started them gangs. They separated and shit. And then they started conquering. We was like, which one is you? You the blue or the red one? You was over here and was like, all right, we going to take all this. They going to take all this. And then now, hold on. Well, we want this. Nah. So then y'all politics spilled over into us.

was like, well, shit, we're going to go get them motherfuckers and bring them over here and have them go to work and this shit. Woo, woo, damn, you had to. Like, no, we want a friend. I'm like, hell no, we don't want a friend. I'm like,

We going to put up the, what's the prison up there in New York where they started? Rikers. So you was talking incentives with the, how to get the guala for the, what you call them? Inmates? Not inmates. Incarcerated. Incarcerated. So how you get the guala for them? It was like, well, shit, if we go out and we catch all of them, then we just going to get it up here on the front end for bringing them. Then we're going to get it on the back end because we're going to send them back down to

So the whole gang, you feel me, though? Damn, that's crazy when you say it like that because then you start looking at individuals that look like me and then it's like, we proud of. Fuck.

Where are these sick motherfuckers that be thinking like this to be doing that type of shit? You should be angrier than you're angry, man. I know. You got to teach me the politician. I need to get one of them, bro. Now you're getting in the deeper conversations about it. There's nothing more true about the system than it is better to be rich and guilty than poor.

poor and innocent. It's a damn fact. Rich and guilty, you're better off than poor and innocent. And that's a fucked up system. Yeah.

And that is perpetuated, and it has been for decades and decades. Not everywhere. I'm not naive. I'm not casting aspersions on people trapped in this damn system. But it's a system that has evolved over time. I mean, we have vestiges of slavery here in the prison system. We had convict leasing after 1865. Convict leasing, where they were literally taking the incarcerated, and folks in the private sector were basically getting them for 10 cents an hour.

And literally the prisons were making money off the backs of folks that otherwise were previously enslaved. I mean, there's serious stuff, segregation and lynching, everything that's gone on for decades and decades have been institutionalized. And I hate when these assholes, these politicians that aren't proximate to anything, never been in systems like this, never been in communities where you start talking about all this. They don't know what they're talking about. I'm saying if they deserve the community,

Right? This is the thing from my life about the politician. Like, if they dare to serve the community and shit, I'd really just be seeing them just go stack up coins and then they just mobbing. Like, you feel me? I know we don't, you know what I mean? We don't talk about dog. That's what we don't, we just don't call them dog or folks. But,

I heard him say, if y'all want fucking change, change the laws, but you're not going to do that because it's going to affect, you feel me though, something bigger than what y'all are willing to talk about. So y'all just going to let me say this and be like, oh, he ain't talking about shit, but ain't nobody going to go and really look into these tax laws that he talking about and start changing shit.

Because I mean, at the end of the day, that comment, you know I don't let you say a lot of shit, but the one you just... I really fuck with that one. That one, you tell you, rich and guilty. Yeah, rich and guilty than poor and innocent. I mean, oftentimes it's race more than culpability. And I didn't even get into race there. I was talking about wealth, but then we get into race.

And that becomes more of a factor than culpability in terms of sentencing. And it's, I don't think this, we know this, this is not, this is, it's like that guy we just met. He said, this is just math. It's, it's, it's just fact. It's a fact. Yeah. And you, you right now, this is why I'm saying this, this shit is just came right on time, man. I'm glad because the thing is, like I was telling you, like,

That was an opportunity and it didn't come from me. It came from somebody who'd been in here for 27 years and he gave you the same ism that I gave you when we was hollering. So you see that

From 27 years ago when he was outside, it's the same shit probably. When he looking at it, it's turned up a little more. And what he was talking about, the fact that I got a little bit of that, was if I was outside, I could run down to the rec center where I didn't need no sign up or nothing. I was a kid.

"Hey, come in here, you know, these the kids play woo-woo." And you do something wrong, you get your ass whooped there and then I'm finna call your house or take you home to your mama and then you're gonna get another ass whooping there. That sense of community, that sense of community is lost now. That is no longer there. - I hear you. - That's a problem. But it just sounds like to the point, when I think about it in y'all community,

You feel me? Y'all don't worry about no type of shit like that. Cause everything else. I mean, to be, we don't, I mean, to be honest with you, we've been blessed and it's, it's not right. I'm not saying like it's a good or a bad thing. I'm just saying as far as our like problems, right? This is a huge issue going home, not knowing if tonight I'm going to eat. And that's just like,

That's serious though, right? Because you think about when you come home, like, yeah, I just had school or whatever. Like, damn, moms ain't here. Fuck. We ain't got no, the lights ain't on.

Damn, I just hope and just pray that it's going to be at least a peanut butter sandwich or a syrup sandwich or you feel me, though? I hope it's some spam in that. And you come home to 19. Your stomach start doing that, putting that hold on you and choking the shit out you like, what the? Hold on, I can't. I'm about to die. I got to survive. What I'm going to do?

I'm a kid. Ain't nobody there. Ain't nobody that say, hey, look, hold on for the, you know what I mean, make this wish sandwich. You feel me, though? Whatever. And it's, man, I got to go outside and get something to eat. How? I don't know. But what I seen or what I heard in that one hungry night leads you into a situation like this. Well, I didn't know. I just wanted a piece of his chicken, and he turned, and I...

By the way, it's such a powerful thing to say. And most people in the world never think about that. They think, why this guy do this? What happened here? They have no idea what you just said and how real that is in these last six. But when you come across that board, right, and you looking at that paperwork,

The paperwork ain't going to say that. No, it doesn't say that. It's not going to say that this is why this kid was here and did what he... It's not going to say that. And then you looking at that paper, I'm not saying you personally, but they get that paper and they look at that name and it's, I throw that motherfucker. Or as they get that paper, they look at that picture and they throw that motherfucker. Or they get that paperwork and they look at the black and white on it and it's, it won't say that. It doesn't say that. But how do we get to explain that and then...

From the shit that do really do be going on to, Oh, it's a fucked up situation. Well, I mean, you're right. I mean, I, I, the file I get is everything that happens after that. Right. And I guess it just, that's the lesson. You know, you can, it's, it's not what happens. It's what you do with what happens that determine your fate and future. And it's, it's everything that happened. It's the folks that will,

survive and thrive on the outside are folks that understand that. I can't make up for the past. I'm not the worst thing I ever did. Just because, you know, I stole something doesn't mean I'm a thief. Doesn't mean I am a thief. And those that go on a journey of discovery and they can demonstrate that,

Those are the folks that that's what I read. And that's the journey that I want to support. And then the work beyond this conversation is the work about how do I see a different future? How do I address these things from the beginning? And I don't want to even bore you with the bullshit politicking or politics of politics.

prenatal goddamn care or zero to three or early headstart or childcare or high quality tutoring and mentorship and addressing learning disabilities and all the bullshit that is real.

where we got to begin at the beginning to address these cycles of violence, ignorance, and disease. But both of those things have to happen. But the thing we're trying to control for here is what we are responsible for while people are here. And this California model man is taking the best ideas from around the rest of the world and across this country and bringing them there. And one of the coolest and most amazing things for me that's revelatory, and I hope you appreciate this, Doug and Marshawn, is we're actually in, quite literally,

one of the great rehabilitation programs in American history. What San Quentin News has represented to inmates here for years and years and years and the opportunity. I remember we were here just a few months ago and there was a kid who said all his, ever since he got into the system, his dream was to get into this room. Mm-hmm.

He said, and I swear to God, true story. We were sitting, he was right behind me. And he's sitting there. He said, you know what? I finally got here. I said, that's amazing. He goes, no, you know what was amazing? Is when I had my byline on San Quentin News. And I said, that's amazing. He goes, no, no. You know what was really amazing? He says, when I called my mom.

And she got a copy of it. And she said the words I never heard her say in my life. True story. I'm proud of you. And he said that just, it brought, it just knocked me on the head. I'm proud of you. Do you know what's crazy? What's crazy is, like I'm going to say, like I've been up here to visit my pops and shit, right? But as I started to like think about it, memories and shit, like that shit that, you know, I don't want to hold in here. Like I thought about it, I said, damn, you know what? I've never heard,

My pops tell my mother, I love you. And then I can't even remember if he ever even told me some shit like that. You feel me? So it'd be the little wins. Like, you feel me? When you get them, like, you got to stack them motherfuckers up. So is he here? No, he's not. No, he's not. Okay.

I don't say shit. I want to give that man a, what's happening, my boy? Right. You feel me? But you're like, that'd be a part of the healing process. Yeah. That's where it started. Like, ooh, shit, I felt something. Like, what the fuck just happened? Ew, that didn't feel right, but it felt good. Ew, what the fuck is that? Like, get that shit off me type. Hold on. But I liked it, though, a little bit. Let me try to figure out what's going on.

So then those kind of programs, right? Yeah. I mean, that hit me in a different way because all of a sudden, I mean, that guy's on the path to recovery. And how old was he? He's a kid, bro. He was 19, 20? Yeah, he's a kid. If he was 22, 23, I mean, the kid. And he's going to be here probably a couple decades. Or he may be here the rest of his goddamn life, may die here if he doesn't get his shit together.

But he's on a different pathway. And there's power in those words, man. Power in the words. What his mom never said to him. And here he is sharing it openly to a bunch of folks, man. So it goes to your, I mean, what you just said about your pops, your mom. Those things, those are powerful, powerful words. Yeah, shit. All right. That's how you going? We're going to death row, Brody. Let's go. I ain't going to death row. Go from that to death row. All right.

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Let's go places. Wait a second. I'll come around. I'll catch up. Yeah, get your ass over here. Jesus Christ. Yeah, Little League. My fucking Little League guy. I told you. I told you. You good? Yeah. You all right? Yeah, absolutely. I woke up. That's the best thing I can do. Thanks. So how long have you been here now?

Two years now. Two? Yeah. And you were where before? Shenzhenville for two and a half years and Jamestown for like three weeks. And then I was here before that for almost 10 years. 10 years. Jesus. So how much more time? I go back in four or two years. In two years? Yeah. All right. So that's around the corner. Yeah, I need to see you. What's up, Doug? Hey, Doug. Hey, tell Doug how we know each other. Oh, yeah. Little League. What Little League? Uh,

Twin Cities Little League. Twin Cities Little League, bro. Now let me ask you a question. I'm telling you right now. He was a decent player, but you were much better than he was. I can tell right now, am I right? Hey, he did all right. Until he ran into Curt Yelling and broke his arm. Well, there was that. See? Jesus, I mean, a guy who remembers Curt Yelling. Outfield, same base position. Okay. He was actually one year ahead of me. Could you have had a chance to keep going and playing?

In high school and college, yes. But the choices I made just killed all that. When did you start making the crazy choices? When I quit playing baseball. Because I went from hanging out with guys like you and others to hanging out with guys like, hey, what do you want to do? Let's go get high. And what are you in here for? Burglary. Three strikes. Okay.

Yeah. So you're not getting out. You're right now. No, he's coming up for me. I got 28 in right now. You got 28? Jesus. And I got five years now just for prison behavior. Let me ask a question. The crew you had back in the day, the family, are they involving you now? Do you see them? Or is this your family here now? What's your family? Mainly here. My friends are here. I've been throughout life and all the struggles in here.

But no, because when I first fell, there wasn't a lot of communication. The lines were so expensive at the time. And then everyone has their own life. You know, they're in their mid-20s. They're trying to start a family, their careers, you know. And they're still trying to, you know. He knows Hillary. You know Hillary? Okay. Crazy.

That's a small world, man. So it was just the drugs that sort of led the pathway of all this bullshit. Oh, absolutely. It was everything. Once I quit playing ball, that's to tell these guys because now I'm coaching on a team. Oh, you're coaching now? Mentally, is it sitting there? You're looking...

- You played right there? - Double-edged sword. - I mean, is it like, you're like, "Oh my God, I played little right there, and now I'm right here." - Yes, everywhere I look, I have a memory. - Yeah, that's crazy. - And that's a good thing, but at the same time, it's a double-edged sword game. It's amazing knowing that I'm just so good. You know, I went to school five minutes from here, and moved my house like 10 minutes from here. His house is about seven minutes from here.

I appreciate you. Keep going, man. What was it? Red Table or Round Table? Round Table. Round Table Pizza. Round Table, oh yeah. That was our team. Round Table. I was just at the Corte Madera one. I guess they put a bank there or something now. Exactly, there's a bank there. We're getting old. Good to see you again. Take care, man. Good to meet you. Look, I mean, the only way this thing works is if you guys make it work, man. Absolutely. And the whole idea is...

I mean, honestly, I'm not exaggerating. If we can make what's about to be unveiled on the other side of that wall and just 10Xing the programming, and if we can see the results of that, then we're going to spread it in every damn prison. And it's a big goddamn deal. Do you think it's going to be picked up by other states? That's the whole idea. Because everything California does, man, we talk about our weight. So I'm talking. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it. Yes, sir.

I ain't going to happen, but I appreciate you, man. When you do, I'm the president. I appreciate it. Thank you for giving us hope. My name is Jesse Milo. Thanks for everything you do for us. Appreciate it, man. Thank you.

We got a lot of work to do here, bro. I've been here my whole adult life, and I've never had this much hope in the future for us as incarcerated people. That's awesome. And a lot of that comes from you and the work you do. Appreciate it, brother. Thank you for that. That means a lot. Keep it up, brother. Keep it up. What's up, guys? Hey, Doman.

- Good to see you, brother. How you doing, man? - How you doing, brother? - I'm good, brother. How you doing? - I'm blessed. - You're blessed? I love that. I like that. That's a good attitude. Take care, man. - Warden, how many people were here at one time when this thing was 50, 20 years ago in Death Row? - So we had close to 700, I believe. - 700 people on Death Row? - Yeah, when I got here, we had a little over 500. - On Death Row? - On Death Row. - Wow. - And they've all been moved out since. - Was that the biggest of any state?

I would say yes. I don't know those data numbers for sure, but I would say yes. Because as much as we have in World Pro... And how many people on a year basis were put to death? The appeals process is very wrong, so it wouldn't be yearly. It would actually be sometimes five years. Five years, got it. So, Doug, over the course of just the last couple months, I mean, not even just a couple months, I mean...

Over the course of the last couple of years, they've been decommissioning death row and doing a risk assessment for everybody, side who comes off. But this thing, when we started, was completely filled up. You know, these are, you can see the single cells. Anytime someone came out of the cell, you could see the cages that they came in, straight over here. We'll go to the yard, and you can tell me how great that is in a minute. Yeah, you can appreciate the yard differently. Wow.

Scott Peterson was here. We actually have another segregation which was actually, ironically enough, an honor. That's where we did it. They were programmers, so they would actually, it's another building on top, and their yard was on top of that building, and they were considered honored. Meaning, like, they were the... They didn't have any disciplinary issues. Oh, God. Work your way up there. I think the most, no bullshit, the first time I came here, the most alarming thing was not...

what is it behind you? It was just seeing people on these things and going, what the hell is this? You know, it's like a, I mean, that's, this is these, by the way, these are all going, right? They're all going. Yeah. The outside. Yeah. We'll show these guys.

You have your cell, you guys wanna go past each other, you go back to back. Wait, you mean to say there were two people in these? Yeah. So there's one person on top, one person on bottom, so when we share this cell with somebody else, whenever I need to go to the back of the cell, we go back to back. So Gavin would put his chest up against the rack, I put my chest up against the wall, and we like, not back to back. We go that way, we go that way, you know what I mean? Yeah, back to back.

So is this the size of the cells in the main, in the other part of the prison center? Yeah. This is the same size? Yep. I don't think that the, uh, in other, other buildings doesn't have that bar right there, I don't think it's the one. Wow. Yeah. These were all single cells, right? I mean, death row. Yes, they were all single cells. Not even looking at some of them have one right? You can use your hand.

It's funny when we, and people were here until what year? Until a few months ago. A few months ago. They were just here. Yeah, literally. And some of them went to another institution together and ended up selling it off together. Okay, but I want to show them something. Here's a more seen chapel record.

This is the chapel. Wow. Chapel right there. But I thought, just looking at this. This was just for Death Row? Yeah. Chapel? Yeah. We're just, you know, looking up the barbed wire and everything. Wow. Yeah. And the chapel would be right there. Yeah, behind. It'd be right here. Wow. And this would be once, twice a day? Once a week? Yeah, once a week. Once a week, that's it?

Once a week. Yeah. Wow. And then you probably had your most talkative inmate, who was literally right there in the corner. Right? Yeah. But, yeah, you walk these cells when they're in there. Yeah. Wow. This is crazy. Yeah. No, it's the first time I came here, the most surreal thing, honestly, the most surreal thing is how many people recognize me. Like, almost without exception. And then when they heard your name and then just to hear voices up top,

You forget, you know, I mean, just being a mayor, being out there in public. I mean, that's just, it was, to me, it was a sort of eerie experience to be a candidate. Did the attorneys come in and meet with these guys here, or was there another area where the attorneys come in and... They would go to our visiting area. The visiting area. Yeah.

But Doug, so this all, at least for the interim, they're going to take these out and then they're cleaning them in your rides. It feels a lot cleaner. Clean up and then they'll start bringing, decompressing the general population, getting rid of some double bunks and bringing people in here. Oh, so you put frisbees back in. We're going to redo it, though. We want to change the image. We don't want to associate it with whatever.

But the single cell is very important to a lot of these individuals. Because like we were talking about, you know, there's some scenarios where you really can't choose any alpha. But these are the same size as the main block. Yes. Right? Two people in these. They're all the same units. Correct. There's no two better suites. No. Two better suites.

I mean there are some things we can do. I think you saw the larger ones down there. You know, we want to make kitchenettes and areas where you'll get microwaved food and do different things to normalize the time. We walked through there so we could just quickly show the yard. They've evolved a long time. They're currently called individual exercise yards.

So for the condemned inmates that come here for their quote unquote exercise,

But we're getting rid of, Marshawn, all this is gone. And so we're going to have this for program for yard for whatever else. They're getting moved. September is our date. So you're going to see like similar like the lower yard. Bro, you act like you on what's that home? Yeah, home renovation. Renovation. Oh, yeah. And this right here, this used to be my single cell incarcerated area. But I'm going to tear it down. I don't know. I mean, I just I'm going to put a.

Something right here with a gazebo and shit. Like what you talking about? Man, you need to kick his ass up out of here You just walking around this motherfucker like a grown man at Disney World or something not Disney World brother This I just for years we've been talking about this. It's finally fucking happening. It's a big deal So do you understand what it do to me? Like I'm not like

You know, I watch shit, I see shit, and then it fuck with me in my soul. I get it. I hear you, man. You know what I mean? I don't want to keep getting reminded of that shit. I get it. I get it. I get it. But look, if we go in there, me and you and the gloves, then I'll go in there.

Mr. Close. What's that? The two of us. Throw me in there with you for like 45 seconds. Just the two of us? Just me and you. Lock it up? You can lock the door, Hulk. I can.

Lock the door. The last sound I'll hear is that clink, clink, clink, and then just blackout. Then I'm on the damn ground, and I wake up in Marin General Hospital. I like it. No, we're going to take you to Highland. Okay, Highland. We'll get to Hospital Room for him later. Jesus Christ. Well done, man. Well done. He's back down here, right? Yeah, but you don't have to go. You want to see the gas chamber instead?

Hell no, I really don't want to see that sick ass. Who the fuck be speaking shit like this? Because it's important to understand the barbaric nature of the past so we don't repeat it. They want to light that motherfucker up right now. And it'll be just my day that I'm here and I want to make sure this shit works. It's on the outside. It's literally outside. Why would y'all do that?

Oh, you fucked up, dude. History's history, bro. Nah, fuck you, bro. History ain't my history, dude. What the shit? You be making me, how your mind even think? I just wonder if I just put somebody in this little place and just put all this gas in it. I wonder what the hell happened to them. Why would you want to do that? That's fucked up.

This is the old gas chamber back when we did this. Back when? This has been decommissioned since when? Yeah, decades. They would be in there and the family would be out here and the gas would come in here and they'd stand there. That's some white people shit for sure. Why would y'all do that? If you go outside you can see the exhaust that the smoke came out. History's history, bro. What was the process?

So they're coming from a whole other section from somewhere else. They're not coming through this way. Yeah, there's a back way to come in here. So it's actually by at the end of East Block and North Block there's access to here yet. So they would just walk them down. It was like 40 years ago I think was like the last time. So before my time so I don't know if you can see it.

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With seating for up to eight passengers and an available panoramic moonroof, you can sit back and enjoy the wide open views with the whole family. Check out more national sales event deals when you visit buyatoyota.com. Toyota, let's go places. Well, I got to be honest, Gavin. I mean, this right here was the weirdest part of the day, man, walking out of the gas chamber.

In 1980, when I was 16, 17 years old, this thing still existed. I mean, I got a weird, weird feel right now walking out of there, man. And you should because there's dozens and dozens of people today that could be condemned to death. And, of course, we're using more humane means now with lethal injection. But that's just literally right next door. But the idea, the gas chamber, even lethal injection used to line people up and shoot them, hang people.

So, you know, there's a... It don't sound a little bit strange to y'all that when y'all be talking about this, it's like the people y'all talk about, they look like me. Disproportionate. Like, man, that shit is fucked up. That's right. Why do you think I did a moratorium? Because it's fucked up. Meaning I stopped it. I...

that we would have been doing. You'd have been reading about there have been protests right outside these gates. We would quite literally put, the ability to put a couple dozen or a dozen people

to death. - And what people don't even know, before this, we saw death row, which was death row, and for them to be in these cells that you couldn't even move and then go into cages. I mean, just-- - Yeah, to get to the yard. - It was unbelievable in terms of how they're living. So I applaud you for getting rid of this. - Well, it's the largest one, and it's not just in America, in the entire Western Hemisphere. We're one of the few countries on planet Earth, one of the few, that still executes people.

Yemen, China, countries, the Western democracies have ended the death penalty years ago. You know what I just thought about right now? Damn, standing next to you talking like this and you say certain shit is way bigger than just having a conversation. A motherfucker going to take you and blow that shit way out of proportion. We probably should get to the point where we don't have none of that shit left.

I think the rehabilitation thing, we probably need to take that shit a little bit further. We're helping the incarcerated. I just learned that. They don't call them inmates, they call them incarcerated. - Incarcerated, incarcerated. - But to help, you feel me? 'Cause goddamn, you think about, you been saying this a lot and I caught on to it, the humane. - That's it.

We probably need to get more of that type of shit. Well, to hear your story, you didn't have food in the house. Gavin and I didn't grow up that way. So you did. And to think the choices you can make to end up in here, life isn't fair. And the imbalances are, this is a perfect example of what's unjust. You get that it's not fair, right? But the thing is, somebody implemented a system for it to be that particular way. It's just that...

I get the short end of the stick when it comes to that shit. There's an old phrase, society becomes how we behave. This has happened on our watch. This has happened on our watch. This is not someone else's problem. This is the world we have created. And so we all have some responsibility and some accountability.

Yep, so when you go run for president, I was going to say, you got to bring me with you. I can get you from the you feel me level. We don't have your level, but then you're going to need the you feel me level. It's a you feel me level? Yeah, me and the warden, we kind of talk on that. You feel me level.

That's what a president and vice president should be about. You got to have the you feel me. You got to have the people that speak to the you feel me. But he spoke to the you feel me. That's how I come. I do want to say this. Like you were saying. The you feel me. What I want to say, Governor Crick, is this. I want to appreciate you because you are the new wave of this. And you're not the wave that you see and you hear about and whatnot where, you know, you're

the guy in Shawshank Redemption. You're doing it the new way because that's what it's all about. So I appreciate this today. It was real and enlightening and scary and all the emotions in the world. I appreciate what you're doing. And when you walked in the yard and shit, they wasn't like, oh, here's this asshole and shit. For sure it was different. They know you had your back, which is really cool to see, man. I was not expecting that. I was not expecting that. But Doug, you know what's so nice about the people...

that these folks have hurt as well. I mean, this is not about being soft on crime. This is not about absolving any responsibility. Quite the contrary. People make a mistake. They have to not only live with that, they have to pay the price for the mistake they made. But again, the reality is tens of thousands of people are released every single year back into your neighborhood. Do you want them to come back angry with a chip on their shoulder? Less

productive and constructive, more likely to commit a crime again or take the time to humanize and address the underlying reasons why they're so broken in the first place. And that's the approach the warden's taking, and that's what this California model's about. The 20, 30 people I met today are more compassionate, have a deeper heart than a lot of people I see every day, walking the streets, going to stores. I mean, it's real. These guys, they got it. And what you're doing, warden, works. Right.

And what's so, I think, you've lived it in all the work you've done, but I keep experiencing every time I come back, the folks that said,

till X number of years ago, I had no hope. And so I acted accordingly. I didn't give a damn about myself. I didn't give a damn about my cellmate. I didn't give a damn about the warden or the guards. And all of a sudden, you guys started giving us hope that if we program, if we do the right thing, if we're more empathetic, if we address the issues of the violence we did outside these gates, then maybe we have a chance to get the hell out of here. And that mindset is pretty powerful.

And I hope it's paying dividends for all the extraordinary staff that you have and the hard work these guards do every single day. And I made this point about the California. We don't want to do this to the guards. We want to do it with the guards. But nor do we want to do it to the inmates. We want to get their— They're incarcerated. They're incarcerated. We want to get their counsel and advice. And you've created these advisory committees.

that are inclusive, not only people on the inside, but on the outside that have real experience, lived experience here at San Quentin. Yeah, I think that hope is safety for all of us. We walk in here and you feel the vibe. The vibe's kind of different, right? Any given day, you can walk in here, hear a band playing, see a softball game going down. You know, we walked and talked and shook hands with a bunch of people that live and work here, right? And it wasn't this depressing feeling, right? So we're trying to make the best of what we got. Yeah.

But we got a lot more to do as well. - Well, I appreciate it, man. - Thank you. Appreciate you guys very much. Appreciate it. Thank you, sir. Always a pleasure. - Thank you. - Thank you. - Appreciate it. - My Sean. - Yes, sir, big dog. I'm still trying to figure out how y'all got Skittles in here.

We'll be right back.

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