A Conversation with Coach Pete Carroll
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Man, what's happening, man? You got Marshawn Beastmode Lynch. Doug Hendrickson. And Gavin Newsom, and you're listening to Politicking. Jutting on the beat. Jutting on the beat.

Marshawn likes his nice jersey right there, Marshawn. How you doing? I just dusted it off today for you, Marshawn. Nah, man. Your little Homer Simpson three hairs at the top of your head. Bro, between them glasses and that little mohawk thing on the top of your head. Homer Simpson. Ouch. Ouch. That was brutal. I've heard a lot of shit. That was next level brutal. Well, Marshawn, here's the deal. Like I told Marshawn that last night, Gavin, I said, here's the problem.

If you take a tape measure from 1 to 100, the average life expectancy is 75. I'm 55, so we cut out 0 to 55, and then 75 to 100. So that gives me and you, Gavin, about eight more good summers left. Really? Eight? So what we have to do is start traveling with Marshawn a little bit more to have a little bit more fun right now. You know what I'm saying? Or we got to get some gel, or you got to lick your...

and smooth that shit over a little bit. Wait a second. Get his hair right. I got the gel. That's my specialty. Get his hair right. That's what I do best. That's what I do. Come on, man.

By the way, I also heard Doug said he was dusting off the jersey. You took that a little personally. I know, Marshawn. I did. You heard me. It was old, bro. Yeah, man. It was old. You know what? I figured out I was old when my brother sent me a congratulations this morning for the Hall of Fame thing. And I just realized, like, you know, he's still playing. There's somebody who I was coaching up since, damn, since he was –

Shit, since he came out the womb and to hear him say that, it was just like, ooh, yeah, you kind of up there, my boy. By the way, guys, do you know this? Literally, no BS, just today on my desk is a big brick. I'm like, what the hell is this brick? And

A bunch of folks had signed it. Some of the guards and some of those incarcerated folks in Quentin, they just tore down that wall. Talk about tear down the wall that was built in 1860. Remember you saw that temporary fence in Quentin? They literally just bulldozed that damn thing down. And there was a brick sitting on my desk again. But talk about bringing people...

Gavin, you can't be using that shit like it's your own fucking goddamn amusement park, man. You getting souvenir bricks and shit? - No, I know. You and this, it's not my damn amusement. I know you're all freaked out, it's not damn amusement. Why is he so happy in prison? I'm trying to stay out of prison. No, man, the brick, but the brick, it represents what you're just saying. It was signed by some of the guards.

And some of the inmates. And they sent it to me, man, because it's about people coming together. Speaking of that today, and just before we bring up Pete, I'm serious, Marshawn. This has got to be interesting. You and Pete Carroll, have you guys had a lot of conversations over the course of the last couple of years? I mean, how many times have you guys engaged?

Yeah, you got to remember, I went back and played for another season. You played? Yeah, I know. I'll call it a season. If I played a game, it's a season. I don't know if I get accredited. You played three games. It was four, I think. Was it four? No, it was the last game against the Niners and then the playoff game and then Green Bay.

Green Bay. Yeah, shit. Playoffs was involved. So shit, it felt like a season. By the way, the only thing I remember about that, Doug, you remember it well too, is like Beastquake 2.0 when you came out and ladies and gentlemen, introduced the rest of the team. And then it was finally your turn. Music up. We're on the field. Next, Doug was like, Doug was like a kid. It's like,

get ready, man. Doug was so nervous. Like, it's about to happen. And it was like, I mean, and I had never spent a lot. In fact, I don't think I've ever been to that stadium in person. And Doug was like, man, it gets loud in here. I'm like, damn, that's another. The beauty of that game, Gavin, that was the only game where Sean didn't yell at me after the game.

Shut the fuck up. That's a fact. Hey, bro, you know what? You a prankster, my dude. You know what they call you, the younger kids in today's time right now, they will call you a troll. You know what was very cool? I met Pete Carroll

five or six times, but just hello, goodbye in passing. Doug, remember before the game, Pete came all the way to the other side to meet with us and spend time with us. And I'm like, this guy's just a little different. I mean, you know, we can talk about that, but just as a personal guy for him to take that time to come over and, and obviously we're BS and about Marshawn behind Marshawn's back.

as we are right now. Oh, shit. See, that's y'all. That's y'all. That's your Moran connection. Cause you ain't y'all from the same hood though, right? San Francisco Moran connection. Oh, my bad. That's how we roll. Redwood High School, bro. Redwood High School.

That's why Pete has been so successful in his life. Oh, he got that. Oh, it's in you, not on y'all, huh? That's what it is. No, it's in us. It's just there's something about those public school kids. I'm going to tell you this. I was in Seattle for, what, maybe eight, nine years, and I'm talking about every single day. This motherfucker Pete would come in with the same...

energy win lose draw rain sleep snow I don't give a fuck what it was he came in every day the same exact person regardless

And that shit used to drive me fucking crazy. I used to ask him. I used to ask that motherfucker all the time. Hey, bro, what kind of drugs is you on? Because I need some of that shit because the way you come in and it was never, it was never, never negative. Never negative. Never negative. Until he pulled your ass in that room and then he started gas and then we got to throw these hands. But it was never, he was never, you couldn't catch this dude in a bad mood.

Ever. Well, should we bring him in, Marshawn? Let's bring him in. Let's bring in Mr. Positivity himself. Mr. Positivity. Yeah. Pete Carroll. The best part of football season, checking out the postgame stats. Which wideout scored more than two TDs? Which QBs threw for less than 350 yards? Think you can pick who will do what before kickoff? Then play Pick 6 from DraftKings, an official daily fantasy partner of the NFL.

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Marshawn and Gavin, we have an incredible episode of Politicking Today straight from Marin County. That's right, Marin. Redwood High School. College of Marin. One of only three coaches, Gavin, to win a national championship, two of them, and a Super Bowl. Former head coach of the Jets, the Patriots, and of course the Seattle Seahawks. Coached 13 years with Seattle.

eligible for the Hall of Fame this year, the legendary Pete Carroll. Thanks for joining us, Pete. What's up, Doug? We got a lot of Barry going on right now. By the way, which one of you two, I'm curious, which one of you two are getting in the Hall of Fame first, Marshawn or Coach? I heard him just say that his favorite color was gold, so maybe he might be. Oh, you remember that, huh? I heard that, yeah. By the way, Coach, I don't know if you heard, I mean, Marshawn just going completely crazy about all your positivity.

You know, it doesn't matter what happened every damn day in every way. You're all bringing that positivity. It said it drove Marshawn completely crazy. I know. Yeah, I know. He couldn't stand it. I love seeing him up in the corner of the room. I sat in the way back, you know, kind of making a little statement, last guy in the room and all that kind of stuff. And I know it just pissed him off because he thought I was trying to make him have fun and be positive, too. I didn't care about him. He was fine. Yeah.

Hey, Coach, well, before we begin, Coach, did you ever think in a million years you would be doing a podcast with Marshawn? You know, I thought he may be following me around. Here I'm following him around. I'm not quite sure what's going on here. Something's wrong. Hey, man, no, I've been told you a long time ago, man. I envy you, man. I do not understand. I don't think y'all get it. Like, it'll be probably like on, you know, a Thursday. We got to practice on Friday morning.

I be lit as fuck. I'm talking about I'm lit as fuck. I come into the facility like shit, maybe 4, 430 because I ain't want to be late. And I just go in the locker room and go to sleep in one of the little big recliner chairs or something.

and a light clockwork around 5 5 30 or something here come pete walking in that goddamn room with that the same energy he just left the last day bouncing around the shit hey hey how's it going chewing hella bubblegum shit and i'm like how the fuck is you this bro you ain't even brush your teeth yet you happy than a motherfucker like god damn how you do that bro i

you know what? I'm about to go back to sleep for a minute. It's all about attitude. You got a good one or you don't. And that doesn't, everybody has to be the same. Obviously, obviously. But, but there's a lot of guys that they, they kind of used it a little bit. You know, I,

I was their attitude. So that's, that's okay. Coach, did you have that your whole life growing up? Cause obviously as a coverage, ever since I, you know, knew you back in the day when you were coaching the jets, did you have that growing up as a kid, Stu Marin, were you always that guy that was upbeat energy and, and bringing everybody together and attitude and that kind of stuff? My mom, my mom taught me that some good is just about to happen. And I've never, never lost sight of that. And, uh,

And somehow they empowered me to – you get to do what you want to do and have the attitude you want to have. But it was always about something just around the corner was going to turn. So why would you be thinking glum and down and out? Because it was going to get good. And so, yeah, I've been like that my whole life, I'm sure. Coach, I'm still trying to recover from Marshawn saying he came in lit. Yeah.

I mean, I'm trying to translate that exactly, you know, like lit up or, you know, was it something else? I was lit up like a motherfucker. I'll tell you that. Lit up like a Christmas tree. The point was to me, you know, my guys were all different. And I want to give them space to be what they needed to be. He needed to be and make his statement of what he was all about. And I loved it.

I mean, I told him just recently that it was so important for me to get him to come to our team because I wanted him to affect everybody on the team. And I didn't care about him affecting it the way I wanted him to affect it. I wanted him to affect the way he was going to affect it. And I just figured we'd work it out, you know, and we would figure out a way to make it all fit and all. And, uh,

And we did. And he's still pissed because he didn't figure out – I didn't even care that he was like you. I loved that he was like you was. And I thought the more he was, the better it was for us. And I could put up with him. I was okay. And if you heard him say he wasn't going to get fined, he knew where that line was drawn. It was about the cash, and he was not going to give up his money. So he stayed close enough to it, so it worked out just fine. Hey, Coach, take me through –

I think it was your second year there, right? When I was talking to you and John about trading for Marshawn when stuff was going up. That was the first year. Was that year one? Yeah, year one. And, you know, we're talking about the trade. And at the time, the Packers won him and you guys won him. And we're going back and forth. Take me through how that trade happened.

changed kind of the tenor and the identity of Seattle and really put you guys on a map as far as what you built there, correct? Yeah. Really, this is how this worked. I knew that I had missed Marshawn in recruiting, and we had plenty of guys.

But I missed him. And then we played against him and I knew who he was and knew about all this stuff. I knew a lot better after the recruiting than than before. And so I already had this, you know, kind of notion of what he would be like. And he's up there in Buffalo and he's kind of in trouble and he's kind of pissing him on and working out. Yeah. And definitely in trouble.

Yeah. So we tried to trade from – if you remember, Doug, it was for months. It really took us three months to get them to say that they would trade him to us. I don't know what else. I don't know about the Packers or nothing else. But, you know, we kicked in a couple – another five or something for them. They were –

They were hard on us. They didn't want to trade him, but they knew that they kind of needed to. And to me, I was trying to get it. It was so important to me. I never pursued anybody like that. It was so important because I wanted his attitude and his makeup on our team

because we were a down and out club at the time. We hadn't done anything in the last years before I got there. And it was time to see if we could turn it. And he was such a big personality that I thought we could really build around. And, you know, I don't think many people thought of Marshawn that way back in the day. I don't know. I don't know. Maybe there was others. I don't think. No, because you got to remember at that point in time, motherfuckers had counted me out. Yeah.

A lot of motherfuckers had counted me out. So that's one of them situations where you get in a position and you say like, you know, I mean, somebody else see something in you that you don't see in yourself. Now, not that I was involved or, you know, I mean, I let, you know, all the outside, you know, consume my thoughts or my personality or whatever. But I mean, you know, at that point, considering in Buffalo, you know, I'm not playing.

you know, I'm coming off the bench or I'm suited and I'm not playing or I'm just in regular street clothes on the sideline. So to go from being on the sideline in street clothes, you know what I mean, to the Beastquake,

That's some belief in a motherfucker, though. I definitely had conviction for you. I can't even tell you why it was so obvious to me because nobody else, John and the guys in

in the building didn't see it the same way. But that's why I kept fighting for it, you know. And finally, it just, you know, I bugged him enough. I said, let's call him again. You know, really, I went down to that office a number of times and he had to call again because I was making him call again. And finally, something happened, you know. And it's just, it was, you know, I took a shot that, that,

you might be able to bounce back in a big way, you know, because it wasn't working out and I knew I could help you work it out. You know, I knew we could fit it together so that would make sense. And, and I didn't, I can't tell you, I knew how crazy it was going to be, but, but, um, the rest of the history is history, you know? And, and so, uh, it was really the most important move that we made in making the statement of the kind of team we wanted to be and the kind of personalities we wanted to jump around and play with. And, and, uh,

And it really was huge. Coach, it's interesting. I mean, you were talking about just letting players be themselves and personalities take shape. Of course, you're not only – it sounds like with Marshawn, you weren't just looking for the athletic talent. You're also looking for the attitude. You're looking for someone –

that can express themselves at another level. Is that something, I mean, you spending all those years and, you know, USC working your way up, obviously multiple teams. And then Seattle, was that something that came to you instinctually as a coach early on, or you developed that over time and then found that,

you know, specific at this time with these personalities that that can really gel and express itself. Interestingly, I, the first year I was coaching a DB is back at the university of Pacific and a million years before I got in trouble for having a meeting one time with the players and asking what they needed to work on. And we had a great meeting. Everybody had ideas and suggestions, you know, and these, we were lousy as the team, you know, but,

But we had a great meeting, and I came running back from the night meeting during camp and ran into the head coach, Chester Katz, and told him, hey, coach, I just had the best meeting. I can't believe how energized it was. These guys were so fired up. And I asked him, you know, I asked him, the guys, you know, what they needed to work on. And he stopped me and cut me off and said, don't you ever, you know, in this big southern Kentucky drawl, don't you ever, you know, ask the players what they want. You tell them. You're the coach. I said, okay. So, you know, I was –

I was crushed because I thought I'd really done something good. And by the time I got to the next day, I was doing everything that we said we were going to do. I was the coach, you know, so, um, and it worked out great and he never knew it. No, but the point was that, uh, the point was that, that, uh,

connecting with people and going to where they, where they feel good about themselves is a place of destination, man, that they can make a difference. And, and whether it's one guy or it's, it's, you know, many people, a whole football team, a whole group of people, when you, when they feel your commitment to them and they know that you care about what they're doing and, and you, you know, that I've always been that way is what I'm saying. And that was all the way back to my second year in coaching, you know? So, uh,

it's always been part of it. And the part that always gets lost, and I can even tell right now, Gavin, you're thinking, okay, there's Lucy Goosey and here's all these guys running all different directions. You can't play football like that. You've got to have discipline. You've got to have consistency to it. You've got to have, you know,

and guidelines and things to keep people in order. But that doesn't mean that you can't recognize the extraordinary uniqueness of the individuals. And when you do, and then you open up to that and you receive them there, like Marshawn was a recipient. He fought me anyway. I was the best guy he could ever possibly be with. He fought me anyway, you know, just because he was so contrary. But that was great. That was him. And it can work, you know. Most people don't do it that way now.

because it's harder. It's more difficult because you're dealing with the individual, the changes, the uniqueness of the personalities. And, you know, they can mix. I mean, Sean can tell you, we had troubles with some guys in our club and, you know, throughout. But we were able to find the way to keep them connected for the purpose of being a great team. And they did it. And we showed that we could do that. So I want to ask you something like with all of that being said, though, right?

And if I remember correctly, you have a degree in psychology, right? Well, it's sports psychology, yeah. So how much of that do you think played a role in, you know, your philosophy in football and your development of teams and players? Because, you know what I mean, when I first had got there, I think it was like a crazy fucking number of, like,

270 plus players that you hadn't brought, you know what I mean, in and out of the facility to create the exact team that you wanted.

Right. So how much do you think your background in... You got a degree in sports psychology? Well, it was in physical education with emphasis in sports psychology. Yeah, I had a ton of stuff that I did in those days. I'm glad you asked the question because

I really was affected by stuff I learned right then and there. And I was able to, because of being so close to the Bay area, there was a couple of great guys that were, that had written stuff on their own, done their own stuff. The guy, Tim Galway wrote the inner game of tennis and Michael Murphy was the guy who wrote about golf and he did some amazing things in his own studies. He was the guy that started Ethelin, the Institute down on the coast. Those two guys in particular, they,

not only did we get to read their books, but we got to meet them and be with them and hang out with them and develop the friendship and relationship with them. And I had so much, I was affected so much by the way they thought and the way that they presented their stuff. And they were totally different. They weren't the same.

But both those guys still, to this very day, I still preach right from the gospel of what those guys believed in. And they were really something about performance. They both were highly influenced by Eastern philosophy in their young days when they went and did their mission over in India and wherever they went. They came back and they had a slant to it that made sense to me that I've never lost contact with. And it's really about helping people.

perform totally in trusting themselves and totally in command of their moments and their times and creating the moments and the mindfulness that it takes to really be at your best. And so,

I mean, I've talked about those guys. I would never mention those guys to you as a team. But I was working from that mentality of helping people get to the very best of what they had to offer. And that's why it is why it was so important to champion the individuals.

and to find the place where each player could be at his best and what he needed to be at his best. That's why I could have Marshawn and I could have Richard and I could have Doug Baldwin and Cam and all the different guys that were the personalities. They were all able to find their own space and be comfortable with it. But yet I was there to kick their ass to make them great at what they were capable of doing too. And so

All of that blended together, Sean. So, yeah, it goes way back. And it never left me. And I wrote about it in the book I did 10 years, 15 years ago, whatever it was. All that stuff was all part of my makeup that I never lost. And it was really the cool part about it. And Marshawn was one of the best at it. He just needed to be in his own space. He didn't want anybody to fuck with him in any way. He didn't want anybody to try to get him this way or get him that way. Just leave me alone. And if you watched him after he made touchdowns, he wouldn't celebrate other than grabbing his nuts on the big run. Ha!

Talk about that. This election season, the stakes are higher than ever. I think the choice is clear in this election. Join me, Charlemagne Tha God, for We The People, an audio town hall with Vice President Kamala Harris and you, live from Detroit, Michigan, exclusively on iHeartRadio. They'll tackle the tough questions, depressing issues, and the future of our nation. We may not see eye to eye on every issue, but America, we are not going back.

Don't miss this powerful conversation with Vice President Kamala Harris. Tomorrow at 5 p.m. Eastern, 2 p.m. Pacific on the free iHeartRadio app's Hip Hop Beat Station. Hey, we're Tim Benenbrook. Tim, what would you say our goal is every morning? Number one, it's to get here with all of our clothes on. Number two, it's simply to wake people up, get you where you're going with a smile on your face, singing along to your favorite country song. Start your day off right. Listen in Phoenix. Clothes optional on 1025 KNX or wherever you are.

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You probably needed a PhD, you know, after the Super Bowl loss with the player. I mean, that was take me through that time after the game, because obviously, I mean, that wasn't just one day, one week. That was that was months and months. I mean, take me through your mindset after that game with how do you I mean, I had to take me through your mindset. That would be very, very tough. I can't even imagine being in your shoes. Yeah, because motherfuckers try to whoop your ass. Yeah.

Let me back you up a bit. If you remember when I was at SC, we played Texas and we were in the Rose Bowl and we get down to like 17 seconds left or something like that, fourth and seven, 19 seconds left, fourth and seven from the seven yard line. If we don't want to, if we just stop the dude right there, we don't want the third straight national championship. That ain't been done before.

And we were right at the precipice of doing everything. We had won every game for years up until that point right there. And bang, you know, he scrambles. The running back screwed up the protection. We send double B and he releases instead of blocks the backer like he's supposed to. So we lose the Frosty record and contain. It's all football stuff.

And the guy scrambles in the end zone. And so we go in the locker room, you know, minutes later, I'm talking to this team. We were on the verge of, you know, something absolutely historic. And my thought was that those 17 seconds or 19 seconds wasn't going to define us. We were what we were. And I carried that thought.

to the moment that that stupid freaking play happened in that game where they get to pick and to change the whole game. In the instant that I bent down to think about, I knew it was going to, you know, I would have to be ready for moments like this in these years of coaching. This is that moment. And you're going to have to be a stud. And I was going to have to, you know, handle it. And because I was going to stand up for everybody. They're all going to be pissed, just like you were. The whole world. And Marshawn and I have talked about this in the past. You know, that was a

meaningful moment. And we lost all that. That would have been two in a row. We might have come back and won three in a row is the way I feel about it. And so anyway, it was huge. But you had to deal with it. And you had to deal with it. And I had to be the leader and I had to stand up for it and take the hit and just, you know, take it as my call and the whole thing. And I was willing to do that.

everybody else. And I mean, he was pissed at me and the fellas were pissed. I mean, everybody was, you know, with that being said, a lot of players from that team don't feel that, you know what I mean? Considering your philosophy and what you stood for and what you got a lot of those guys to believe in. They don't feel that, you know what I mean? You, you, you owned it.

From a perspective of which they would have liked you to own it because then it started to get rough over there. It got really rough for us though. And to a point where it was like, yeah, I mean, and, and the way I, the way I think about it is like,

considering like everybody, oh, you should have just ran the ball with Marshawn, you know, this, that, and the third. But, you know, considering, you know, and the type of player I am and, you know, shit, from what you just said to, you know, any teammate of mine will tell you like, no, Marshawn for sure is a team player in which, you know what I mean, at the end of the day, I know a lot of guys took that shit a lot harder even than I did.

because of because of what you instilled and yeah i mean that seahawk team so when i start thinking about it and i think about your mindset and you know the the psychology of you know of people but then you know putting it into a term of of ball players and then having this moment of um

I'm going to say for us was like was failure and then not for it to be. Yeah, I mean, something that affected us emotionally.

personally because we felt like we was on that type of time and then a lot of them felt like we were stripped of it. I felt the same way. Nobody is better compared to than I am about the whole thing. I would have done anything in my power to change the moment but the moment just happened so quickly it was gone. It was gone before it even happened and I wish I would have been able to affect it differently but I didn't. I couldn't. It had nothing to do with...

all of the storylines. Marshawn and I have talked about it. It had nothing to do with all the storylines about some other players or some other agenda. That's not how the game works. It happens so fast. They substitute. We do this. Bump calls made.

it just happened and we got smacked in the freaking nuts by it. But, you know, it's interesting you guys got us on this talk together because nobody had to deal with this more than Marshawn and myself. I mean, nobody had to ever deal with that and we carried our whole life and it's just something that's affected us both in different ways and all that. But, hey, man, it's part of our life and we had to deal with it and we had to get on and we have. And he's kicking ass and I'm retired. Yeah.

As a non-football guy, I don't think I've ever asked for Sean. Was the call from Beville or was you made the call? Who made the call? We did the way we always did. There's defensive coordinators, offensive coordinators. They call the stuff. We play the game. I'm responsible for every call that was ever made.

That's all. Doug, if you didn't catch that, Bevel made the motherfucking call and Pete didn't get to it quick enough to get out of that motherfucker. That's how that, that's how, what he just told you in a nutshell, you know what I'm talking about? But I mean, look, with, with that being said, like, you know what I mean? Cause me and you, we had a conversation when we talked yesterday and was just talking about how, you know, how it affected my life.

And, you know, after that moment, you know, I was telling you, like, I was having a conversation with some ex-players and, you know, like, oh, you know, if you get that, if they give you the ball again, you go and you score, you get the MVP of the Super Bowl. And, you know, I mean, it is what it is. And I was like, the fact that that didn't happen, it's almost to the point where it was like, you know, like that one guy in a movie that everybody rooting for that, you

Just quite, he just don't make it.

And now I'm living a life of that guy, but I'm actually here to experience what it would be for an individual to, you know what I mean? Live life after, you know what I mean? All that, uh, after that, after that downfall. And I mean, you know, and in reality has been, you know what I mean? Uh, I mean, by the graces of God is like, he, he blessed you in so many ways. And it's more so like,

by me not getting that ball or us not running that ball in, I feel like it made a stain on the world to where no matter what the situation is, that particular play is always going to be talked about. And the fact of the matter is, Tom Brady went another Super Bowl, Malcolm Butler going, become the MVP of the game. You know what I mean? But

No matter what you talk about that Super Bowl, it always just come down to the fact like, oh, they didn't give, oh boy, the ball, Marshawn the ball, and they lost. Like, oh my God, like that shit turned my life upside

In a way that I could never imagine because I asked those guys the same thing. I said, well, who won the Super Bowl MVP the year before? And they're like, oh, Russell Wilson won. Like, no, Russell Wilson didn't win it. Oh, Percy Harvin got MVP. No, Percy Harvin didn't. And it's like,

Malcolm Smith did. And oh, yeah, I was going to say Malcolm. I mean, you asked who didn't who didn't win the Super Bowl and the next year and all more shine. They should have given. And it's like, I mean, Doug, you like to use it posterized.

It it it it boosted my life and my career to a level of, you know, I mean, something that I could not have, you know, I mean, understood or even imagined that my life could be. Yeah, it's an amazing it's amazing perception that you have of that. And it's the truth. You're just talking the truth. That's what that's what happened. Yeah.

It's good that something good came from it. You know what I mean? After all, that sounds like me, doesn't it? Something good came out of the crap that we had to go through and live with. And it ain't going away. And that's what I knew in that moment. It ain't going away. We're going to have this forever. Sean, it's a statement about how regardless of what happens in your life, we still have the ability to make of it what we want. And it's no matter how dark it gets or how horrible a situation or the hugest mistake you could ever have made or whatever,

It's still, there's a life to follow. And if you hang in there and you keep battling, I mean, that's just the basic old story of it. But both of us, wherever I go now as a retired guy, people are freaking boring to get over me, to get to me, to get a picture, an autograph or whatever. They don't talk about the Super Bowl. They don't mention that. I don't know. I get so much love that I couldn't ask for more. I'm shocked by it. And I had no idea.

This election season, the stakes are higher than ever. I think the choice is clear in this election. Join me, Charlemagne Tha God, for We The People, an audio town hall with Vice President Kamala Harris and you, live from Detroit, Michigan, exclusively on iHeartRadio. They'll tackle the tough questions, depressing issues, and the future of our nation. We may not see eye to eye on every issue, but America, we are not going back.

Don't miss this powerful conversation with Vice President Kamala Harris. Tomorrow at 5 p.m. Eastern, 2 p.m. Pacific on the free iHeartRadio app's Hip Hop Beat Station. It's the exact opposite for me. So in a sense, it really showed me like,

How much, you know what I mean, the world and people really, you know what I mean, fuck with me from a respect level. And I really, like, to me, I appreciate that shit to the max. Like,

You know what I mean? Because before that, like, you know what I mean? Considering like when I first got there and motherfuckers had counted me out. You know what I mean? Oh, he washed up. He done. You know what I mean? Stick a fork in him. It's over with. He a thug. He this, he that, blah, blah, blah. But then to see on the out, on my way out and the reality to that shit is like, nah, people really fuck with me on some like,

Nah, we really fuck with you, Sean. Like, we really wish we would have been able to see you do that. And since, you know, we wasn't able to, like, even though...

It didn't happen. We feel that it did. And we're going to show you the love and the respect as if it did happen. So, I mean, like I said, I really fuck with the people for really fucking with me on some, you know what I mean? On some real, like to me, cause that's some real shit. Like if you give me four opportunities down there for sure, just my stubborn, like I'm hella stubborn. Like you ain't finna just not,

allow me to get up in this motherfucker now. At the end of the day, shit happened. You know what I mean? I done fumbled. You know what I mean? Done got tackled for a loss. All the type of shit that happened. But if you look at the situation and see how many times I go forward and I went backwards, we gonna take that. We gonna take that opportunity. We gonna give you that chance.

So, I mean, you know, as much as I can look at it, I wish it would have. Look, as much as I can look at and be upset, there's that in a third. You know, I mean, my my my my biggest thing is whenever somebody say that to me and I'm pretty sure like anytime I step outside on a day to day base, like at least once somebody, you know, mention that to me.

uh you know about you know about that play yeah and it's just get to the point where it's like uh

You say, what's that big dog? No, no, it's just, it's your life. You know what? It's going to keep coming. That's not going to change. And it's love really. They're showing you the love that they, they, they, they feel for you, you know? Yeah, man. So I respect that. So just know that if you come up to me and you, you say something though, I'm not the most, you know what I mean? Receiving or, you know, outspoken or, you know what I mean? Uh,

what you call approachable or friendly or whatever, but just know that I really do appreciate that shit. And I do have a lot of love and respect and I, the, the, the love is, is bulletproof. You know what I mean? When you show me love and respect on a sense that you can appreciate, you know what I mean? The body of work that I put in. So I just want to tell everybody, I appreciate you for that. My boy. Hey, Doug, the only two, it sounds like coach and Marshawn have moved on and,

And they've translated this differently. Of course, you and I haven't. We're still raw about this damn thing. But that's a different conversation. By the way, I feel like I'm listening to the Stoics.

This is like Marcus Aurelius talking about the obstacle is the way. It's not what happens to you, it's what we do with what happens that determine our fading future. But I love this notion that you guys have translated it in different ways, but ultimately recognizing that these are moments in our life. And at the same time, let's be honest, we've all had those moments. I think about political terms, what about the emails? And it is something that ultimately you can't

completely dismiss. And coach, I imagine, you know, despite the fact that, you know, it's got to still, you know, it's hard to, hard to fully recover from those decisions, but I love that you had this experience before. So you, you, are you exaggerating when you say when you were leaning over that you literally had that memory of, of that,

uh, that Rose ball game in your mind, literally going through in real time. It was, it was the, the moment of realization that I'm, this is, this is the job I got. This is what I'm going to have to deal with. I'm going to have to deal with this from now on. And so, and I thought before I even raised back up, the thought was, uh,

I want to do it and be the epitome of how you can handle stuff like this and put it in the right spot. But meanwhile, it's going to be just hell. And it's been like that. If you compete like we do,

I don't ever get over that stuff. I don't put it away. I don't get over it at all. I carry it right to this very moment. I would do anything to change that moment, but I don't get to. So I got to deal with it. So how am I going to deal with it? I got a way you could get over it. What do you got? Me and you in the phone booth for 30 seconds, and we just go straight all body shots and just, you know what I mean? Yeah.

This was going so well. Oh, man, it was for a minute. Like, man, I wanted to put so many hands and feet on you. But you know what? Because I respect my elders and I know you like 94, right? Oh, Jesus. 90 something. Yeah.

So, man, you know, I can't go out. You know what I mean? Hey, Coach, but I appreciate Coach, and I'll let you know the story, Gavin. But, you know, after the game, you know, Pete was incredible because he recognized that, you know, we're going through some contract talks. Remember, Coach, you immediately say, hey, listen, we got to get him done. And normally, timing-wise, this would be probably some point in, you know, summer. Summer.

and you recognized it was important to kind of get him redone, and you engaged with Paul Allen, and we got together, remember, in your office, or Paul's office, and we got him done probably a month after the Super Bowl, which I think was an important part, and you led that charge, Coach. I appreciate that. Remember, we went back to the playoffs the next year, too. We made it through that.

the garbage of it all. And, and like Marshawn, I both agree. If we'd have won that game, we probably would have won the next game too. I think we would have, it would have been a totally obviously a different circumstance. The league agree with that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I mean, well, I think all of us knew that, you know, there was just that time that we could have captured, but, but anyway, so that, yeah, those were just the gestures, you know, showing the faith and the love. I mean, Marshawn can't do anything. Matter of fact, let me tell you one more story.

When Marshawn comes back, he comes back to us after being out and about for a couple of years. The first thing he comes walking down the hall to my office and he starts apologizing for whatever you were doing. You felt bad about whatever you had. No, no, no, no. You don't have to say nothing.

you don't have to say a word. I know, I know where your heart is. I know where, I know where we are. I'm, I got no problem. And I'll, I'm not going to not love you no matter what happens. It doesn't, no matter what was said or what's done. I know when, in the long run of it all, it, we're all going to be connected and back together again. And so, and, and that,

It was such a cool gesture that you wanted to try to clear the air or whatever, but you didn't need to. I didn't need it. I didn't need to hear that. I knew. Yeah, because I think before that time, I think I was on some shit like, hey, if I see you, bro, I'm going to beat the shit out of you. No, you aren't. No, you aren't. You may say you are, but...

You got to realize I ain't going down now. You're not going to knock me down. So when I'm coming in the office and I'm coming for a job, like, hey, I don't want – like, you know, if I know he think I'm going to come and swing on him, he probably going to be a little – This jaw right there can take some hit now. I told you you got that Stewie jaw right now, my boy. By the way, Coach, I don't know if you know this. I'm responsible for getting Marshawn to the hotel right after the game.

And he was completely docile, completely calm, sitting in the front seat, turned on the music,

I had a drink. I don't know what the hell was some whiskey or something. Nah, that was some pure white Hennessy, whatever the hell it was. And he has a window and you guys weren't, I don't even know if you were off the damn field. And he calmly says, let's get the hell out of here, Batman. So we're driving through and the parking lot, people are just starting a couple of people leaving the game. Most people weren't even leaving the game. And he's just casually, calmly listening to music. I'm sitting there back,

back of the car with Doug going, man, Marshawn is taking this very responsibly and respectfully. I appreciate his maturity. And now I'm hearing he wanted to beat the shit out of you. And he was going to come get your ass, find a, I mean, this shattered everything, Marshawn shattered it. Oh man. Well, look, I mean, you know, he always stretches a little bit now. Jesus Christ. Oh,

Oh, hell no. He wasn't shocked though. Coach. He was flat out in shock because we got out of the car and he wanted to beat the shit out of me. I'm like, I'm just the driver, bro. I'm the guy got you home. Cause let me ask you a question. And, and as, as 30 years of an agent, those six, seven, eight years in Seattle, it was like, it was iconic. It was rockstar status. The town was crazy. I mean, everything about it. And you were blessed coach to have two teams like that. USC was,

for those years was the same way. I mean, how do you compare the two? Because literally, I don't know if another coach had both sides like you did, other than, you know, Barry Switzer at Oklahoma and the Cowboys, obviously, and maybe Jimmy Johnson, Miami. But you had literally two coaches

Beatles, Rolling Stones of teams. How do you compare the two and the environments in L.A. and Seattle and all that stuff? I'm curious. There's nothing that compares to the SD thing in this regard. We won every game for three years straight.

I mean, think about that. We won 30-something games in a row and went all the way to that Texas game. And had we won that one, what would have happened? So there was a golden time there. Back to gold. A golden time there that was just extraordinary. And I felt like I had –

I had arrived at my calling and coaching. My life had already happened. I mean, that couldn't be any better than that. But I did feel the challenge because of the competitiveness, the challenge to go to the NFL and take the mentality of taking care of people and loving people up and helping them be the best they could be. I wanted to see if it would happen in the NFL. I really – because I was always –

I had become an NFL guy for all the years I'd been in there. And so I like that challenge is the ultimate challenge. And so, so we make, you know, we get our run going and we're rolling it. But let me say this. There's never enough wins.

there's never enough wins and it's uh you know that's what i'm saying 34 in a row or whatever okay there should have been 35 you know and then there's never enough and so it keeps you coming back but yet it also kicks your ass you know and uh and so it in seattle you know we don't win every game you know we won over 10 games a year for 14 years or something whatever it was but uh it still wasn't enough you know and and so um

That stretch in L.A. and the things we were doing in the city and all of the stuff that was happening and all the glorious moments that we had in Macaulay and all that stuff, that was just the top of the top. I went to try to do it again. I wanted to try to do that in Seattle too, but you can't win every game in the NFL. It just doesn't happen. There's just never enough wins.

Was there more pressure at USC or Seattle, in your opinion, knowing it was at USC? I didn't feel – I didn't deal with that. The pressure thing, I didn't deal with that, really. I mean, I never even thought of it that way. You know, I just – ball coaching was not that. I was a mercenary. I was fighting somebody else's wars, you know, and going for it and taking it as far as you could with the highest of expectations. And I really didn't –

And it wasn't the pressure. It was hard work to keep everybody together and to make sure that everybody's on the same page and everybody was loving what we were doing. It was a challenge and all that, but it wasn't about the pressure. I don't see it that way.

Coach, despite when you're suggesting a lack of pressure, which is remarkable, that mindset, I mean, you've been doing this a couple of decades coaching. Now you're walking the campus at USC again, teaching, not coaching. I mean, is next level decompression still processing or?

Or are you just able to have that mindset, whatever I'm doing, I'm doing. That's my focus. That's my energy flow. No, I'm competing. I'm competing to make this a great freaking year now. It's already been a great summer. But I am. That's just frankly how I'm doing it. I'm not doing anything different at all in that regard. The springtime, I'll be at the SD thing. But there's other stuff going on. We're doing other things that I'm really excited about. It's just different. And my mentality is so much different because all of the little –

the little nitpick and stuff that you've got to be involved with on the team when you're a coach, players and all of it. That's been set aside now. And so my mind is clearer and I'm freer to take it where I want to go. And I love that sense. Coach, what class are you teaching over there?

Well, we're going to be teaching a class with a guy named Varun Soni, who's the dean of religious studies on campus. And he's a freaking rock star. And he and I are going to do this thing together. And it's going to be through the business school, through Marshall. It'll be a...

It's going to be very close to my heart. Let me just say that. I don't give away the title of what we're doing yet, but it's going to be very close to my heart and the stuff that I believe in and mixing it with what Varon is. He is an extraordinary instructor in all of ancient religions and all the kind of cool things, spirituality and so many things that he's going to connect with us. It's going to be really something, I think. So we're all really excited about it.

Well, we have more Sean with the Cal degree and the Princeton degree, Coach. He might be a guest lecturer a few times with you. Princeton? I never heard of that. Yeah, I know. And no one – What's that? Yeah, exactly, Coach. Don't buy any of that BS. Then again, he's got a damn certificate. Hold on, what you mean that BS? No, that shit is for real, for real. 3.2. You ain't seen the degree hanging on my goddamn – on my wall? It does have evidence. All I heard was 3.2. It was 3.2. 3.2. 3.2.

We do a special thing on the show code where we ask the governor a question. So whatever question you want to ask the governor coach, it balls in your court. Man, I got so many questions. Why did I sign the NIL? By the way, first state to sign the NIL. We can have that conversation. Oh, Lord. Hey,

Hey, Gavin, that's a big mistake now. That's a huge mistake. Now, I'm not even asking you about that, but that's a huge error that we should work to correct. I mean, no BS. I mean, are you that concerned about it, that it's gone out of control? Absolutely. Think about it. Okay, you want to go there for a second? Think about it.

the poor kids. Those poor kids and those families and those moms and dads that are figuring out, how can I make money on my kid when he's a sophomore in high school and he's going to be a star? And they're thinking about stuff like that instead of letting the kid go to school and be an athlete. What are you talking about? And attorneys and lawyers and reps and agents like Doug that are representing those high school kids. What is that all about? Who thought that was a good idea? It was

I mean, I can talk about it forever, but it should be changed. If you want to do something good, fix that. Fix that. I don't disagree, and I have strong opinions about the transfer portal and what's happened with that as well, though you don't think that's –

But I mean, the fact that some of these players, I mean, the vast majority, overwhelming majority are never going to play in the NFL. They never become Marshawn Lynch. I mean, there was, did you ever think about at least, should there be some framework, even if it's not NIL as we know it? What are you worried about? What are you worried about? You're worried about these kids getting compensated?

because other people are making money on them, they're getting education. They get a Pell Grant. They got money in their pocket. This is the time of their life. They don't need that element of professionalism to cloud what's going on. And also the mentality of the teams and the different aspects of how it works in the locker room with some kids making a million bucks and some kids not making anything. I mean, it's just a mess. It take away from the actual game of football. Where's the game?

in the way that you approach it. But from a standpoint of, you know what I mean? Because, you know, a lot of those kids won't never, you know what I mean? Reach a level of, you know what I mean? A hall of fame football player. So being able to capitalize in those moments, I do believe that I don't think it's a bad idea in order to get these kids, you know what I mean? Paid.

But for the simple fact of all of that unnecessary outside shit that they have to go through in order to get that. And then the lack of education that you're going to put a million dollars in the in the pocket of of a 18 year old with somebody who looking at him as just a ATM or just a way to capitalize and make some money off of them.

It put them in a it put them in a tough ass position before they become, you know, I mean, mindful of what's really going on and the responsibilities of what it actually means to have this type of Cholula in your bank account. To me, it's a it's a plus and a minus.

And I think that, you know what I mean, with great response, I mean, with great, you know what I mean, success come with great responsibilities. And a lot of these individuals who, you know what I mean, don't even know what it is to be successful for you, put them in a position of where, you know what I mean, you give them the bread before they actually know what it feel like to actually know how to, how to, how to rock with the money. Well, coach, one of the,

One of the problems last year, I had a player I signed, and I'm not going to name the player or the school, but this player got like $500,000, okay? And he came to me before the draft. He said, hey, man, when are taxes due? I said, well, they're due in April. And I said, well, how much do you have left from your NIL? He said, nothing. I said, what do you mean nothing? He said, I spent it all. I said, well, you got to pay at least $275,000 to Uncle Sam. And so...

Now, in his case, he went to the NFL and he was able to get the money. The problem is these schools are not educating the kids. And so let's say this kid didn't make the NFL. Well, Uncle Sam's not going to go away. They're going to find him somewhere and say, you owe us $250,000. So now the guy's life has started with basically in the hole, you know, $250,000.

Yeah, this is a parent's game. This whole thing is about the parents or whoever is mentoring the kids. They're the ones getting the money. They're the ones that are going to put it where they're supposed to put it. The kids are only going to screw it up. They don't have a chance to be prepared to do that. Why would we? What's the rush? You know, what's the rush? And if there's

If they want to up the Pell Grant, they want to up the general money that every kid gets something, gets $5,000, $10,000 a year or something like that, great. But give it to everybody. And let them all be just –

players and plan the program and deal with those is enough it just doesn't make sense it's not right the thing i like about the parents are taking the money but if you're willing to put that much money into the to the hands of the student then you should be willing to put yeah i mean as equal amount of money into yeah i mean the the education that these kids need

Yeah, I mean, so then when they actually do get to the league, you have less of a situation where it's almost what the high-ass percentage of like, what, 80% of all professional athletes go bankrupt type situation. But if you start them with the education as,

early as college, knowing that they're going to come into some money, the mindset is different because now you're thinking in terms of, okay, how do I actually spend money? Now, I know I could go out and I can fucking go blow a bag on whatever it is I want, but how do I spend money the right way in order to make sure that

in the long run, I'm still going to be able to be able to take care of everything that I need to take care of right now. Because at the end of the day, like you said, those problems don't go away. The thing is with, I think big set at the best one, more money, more problems. But the thing is, uh,

a lot of individuals don't see like, yeah, I mean, when we come into money, we don't come into money with education of how to spend the fucking bread, considering, you know, when you think about, you know, you know, on the other side, where you look at white people who come under trust funds and, you know, I mean, fall into the family business like they're taught this shit from, you know, I mean, from from a age.

of how this whole system of how the money situation work. And then it's like, okay, so they understand that. But then on our end, yeah, I mean, it's just like a overnight type of situation. One minute you got Top Ramen in the motherfucking cabinet to, I could go and eat at fucking Benihana's and it's like, that's your life.

And the thing is, if you don't properly take care of your situation, you put yourself in a motherfucking position to go back to eating Top Ramen or worse. Then you go ahead and contribute to the problem that we have in California. That's on some other shit. But, you know, I mean, it begins to, you know, I mean, that cycle just continue to to repeat itself.

So, I mean, like anything, the first thing that you need to do is make sure that you get education on any situation that you've gone into. So if you don't put the motherfucking money into the kids hands, then you need to go ahead and put the money into the motherfucking education of these kids at the same time. So they don't continue to make the same mistakes that the motherfuckers made before them. No, by the way, just and just, you know, as the guy that did the first NIL in the country. And of course, it was inevitable, Coach.

which, okay, soldier boy, I did it first. No, no. Based on this conversation, I should run. Never. And I'll deny that. But I will say this. I mean, I completely, and coach, I appreciate your conviction and your insight. A few people uniquely positioned to understand it better than you. But there's no question in my mind when we signed that,

that this was not what was intended. The world that now is taking place is not what that legislation was originally about. So I could not agree more in the basis of this conversation, the imperative for the NC2A to immediately reconcile that

and address this issue. They've got to move on this. In the absence of that, we're looking at state by state moves, but that's going to put states like California and other states at a competitive disadvantage. So it has to be done at the national level and they need to move on it quickly because there's no doubt this was never what was intended.

Yeah. Good luck. I hope you can do it. I hope you can do it. Like Sean was saying, education, that's what this whole thing was supposed to be about. You're a ballplayer or you're a dancer or you're a scholar. You get some help going to school so you can get your education. And we're forgetting about that. But it works to be done.

Well, Coach, we can't thank you enough for joining us. I mean, I've always loved you and appreciated you and everything you've done in your career, and you're not done yet, obviously. And I appreciate how you've just lived your life, man. You've lived it a glass half full, and you've always lived life on borrowed time, and I really appreciate you and always have. And we can't thank you enough for joining us today. And, Doug, his glass has been overflowing, next level fantastic.

first ballot hall of fame the one and only coach carol coach appreciate you being here thanks for bringing the bay area back together with you guys here it's pretty good this podcast is supported by better help offering licensed therapists you can connect with via video phone or chat here's better help head of clinical operations hess you joe discussing who can benefit from therapy i think a

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That's BetterHELP.com. This election season, the stakes are higher than ever. I think the choice is clear in this election. Join me, Charlemagne Tha God, for We The People, an audio town hall with Vice President Kamala Harris and you, live from Detroit, Michigan, exclusively on iHeartRadio. They'll tackle the tough questions, depressing issues, and the future of our nation. We may not see eye to eye on every issue, but America, we are not going back.

Don't miss this powerful conversation with Vice President Kamala Harris. Tomorrow at 5 p.m. Eastern, 2 p.m. Pacific on the free iHeartRadio app's Hip Hop Beat Station. I'm NK, and this is Basket Case. What is wrong with me? A show about the ways that mental illness is shaped by not just biology. Swaps of different meds. But by culture and society. By looking closely at the conditions that cause mental distress, I find out why so many of us are struggling to feel sane.

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