Bonus: What We Didn’t Know | 8
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This is a long crime network presentation. This podcast expires themes of child abuse and trauma. Please listen with care.

Says everything fine with him, says what's happened to him as his boat don't.

And you .

set out .

at the .

house.

do you have a search?

Do you a first time that ever been there? And he blew my mind as you've got sure you walked in there and gone. How does that there first look like this?

This has been the strangest and the most oracular lous intervention.

Jodie is a mastor manipulator and had so much control over everybody that was in that house at that point that he just needs to stay in prison until she's no lger retry to the community.

Yeah, and I was just like this, a little string that started pulling apart this fabric like, oh my gosh, what have I done?

I'm polyborus and this is the rising fall of ruby. Frankie presented a law crime.

When our first episode dropped february nine, tenth, twenty twenty four, just a day before ruby, Frankie and jodie hilled, the brand were sentence.

We'd produce this series based on public record up until that point then friday, march twenty second, twenty twenty four, as we just rapped what we believe to be our serious finally, the washington county attorneys office in utah released police reports, body camfed, tage, investigative photos and interviews, as well as portions of ruby, Frankie and joy. The band recorded phone calls made from the washington county correctional facility. The comprehensive drop of documentation provides new context, revelations and even more shocking details.

In this case, we be remiss not to include them in this podcast. This bonus episode will take you through the treasure trove of new evidence recently made public record. But first, we'd like to acknowledge the painstaking work the washington county a tnews office put into compiling this mountain of material. And if you're wondering why this documentation wasn't released sooner, we had district attorney eric Clark explain .

our practices, anybody can appeal a conviction or a sentence for three days.

So in this case, that was super unlikely because the plea deal that we negotiated was a stipulated prison sense to consecutive terms, right? Like they had signed on the dot line and agreed to everything but there was still a chance, no matter how small that you know ruby er jodie could said, hey, my attache lied to me until man was only going to do six months and I didn't understand I was going on and file an appeal on this. And we have an ethical obligation.

If there's any chance we're going to be, be going to trial. We cannot be putting out information that can be thinking of potential jury. And so be because I obviously all this information would have, right, like nobody who's seen any other pictures or read the journal would be like, oh yeah, I can have open mind this and I don't have a pregressed y notion of that that these are are guilty of the crime.

Or it's important to work super careful so that if we end up in a trial, we don't have complications in seeing a jury because our priority first and farmers is getting a conviction. And so releasing the documents earlier could have tainted to that. We also didn't want a peace will roll out um and and kind of drag this out because there is an impact of the family and we want to be aware of the the minor victims. So we tried to have everything ready to just release at that day, thirty one, so that we can get to a week of new cycles and and hopefully can kind of settlement and those kids can give back to a state .

of .

Normal as Normal as can be. Now that cleared up, let's dive in. By now. We've all heard snippets of the unforgettable nine one one call made by jodi y's neighbour, whom Russell Frankie escaped to on that brutally hot August morning.

But IT turns out before Russell made contact with the man who put in the call, he had attempted to define help at a closer home first. That moment was cut in a home security camera, too. Russia is shockingly thin.

Wearing an oversized blue long sleeve shirt, striped boxer shorts and socks, he rings the door bell casing around as he waits for an answer. But nobody comes to the door on his next attempt, another housework he's met with Better luck. In another slipped of video caught on a ring camera, you see the first moment Russell and the heroic man make contact.

When you take a beauty .

favorite .

taking to near three station, 对， this one time.

what's going? This man.

Russell takes a seed .

on the shaded patio. The older gentleman sits down beside him. Then a woman comes out to bring rustle food. As Russell begins to eat, the man makes the now infamous nine one one call.

No, i'm sitting outside with on the front video and he asked us to call the police. So he's very RAID and rustle what your last name do you know your moment data?

Well, actually, I don't know where my mom is, but I do know where my dad is.

He doesn't.

His data. Mom, home.

mark.

He doesn't know where he is right now. Lots of learning of the kids appetite, said two sisters. Anybody else now how your sister vesle then in fourteen and that there's still in this house.

Are they kind of as well? What's the ideal with your sisters? Are they are they be in held that they are? Do they have wounds 那么 左右？

Okay, he says everything fine with him. He says that what's happened to him as his for new and is here is stocking feet. 所以 in a state that is beauty appear right now。

Okay, so the alibi is up there right now OK. So SHE makes him work in friend here soon, but is not given. Obviously we need to.

Yeah, she's a year. She's bad lady. Good now is a bad.

They were correct. Jodie was there, and officers were just arriving at a door in the newly released body cam footage SHE seen opening the front door of her compound in a great pulver and blue shorts, holding her phone up to her face.

那就 我 就 对我说。

什么。

不要 别人 不要说。

My honey.

come to my house. You can into my house. Do you have a search? One arch. See right there.

Also, when everything after after see that, we hear an existing circumstances. And I explained that after this, after my surgeon and the officer had done clearing the house. Anybody else in the house? Yes, two kids.

There's a little girl. This one. She's right over here.

Okay, how old?

The SHE should be? Ten next year.

okay?

Jodie is a deer in headlights. She's visibly fighting back tears on the phone with her attorney, while a police officer with the body camps dance facing her.

And I have a .

flight cash so .

well .

in your home.

You like them about.

yeah, I got a police just standing right here. OK, yeah yeah.

And the house .

there are .

three children that supposed to be in the house. There's not three children that supposed to be here in the soul.

They still working others after their initial confrontation .

with jodie outside her front door. The police search of the home has been well underway. Jody sits on the couch as they continue their search of the partial estate.

They find eve seated on the floor in a stark, empty room that appears to be a closet. Her head is shaved and she's under ably. My nourished, the sergeant approaches her carefully.

Hey OK, this is you. Here i'm starting talk. What's your name? I just have one.

Where is at OK are you? OK you don't want talk to me. Yeah, that's okay. Can you can see so we .

get joy out here. You know, jody.

she's outside with us. You take your time Better my hurry. I'm a police officer.

Did you know that I don't mean hurt you at all? You're okay. Do you help?

Eve doesn't respond. And another first responder of female emt attempts to reach her.

You want to talk? OK 那那 三分钟 you went talk at all。 OK me. Are you scared? We know that IT .

took nearly four hours to gradual eve to CoOperate. In another video without audio, you see officers providing her pizza, which he eats in the same spot on the floor they found her in. After feeding her and earning her trust, eve agrees to be examined by em. T body cam for food shows the kids being examined in the ambuLance too.

Who did him? You not in troubles me. We just trying to figure out. Let's go on our main and focus right right now as you kay, who put the ropes on you want to help .

you want the camera is yelled at Russell as the em t questions him about his injuries. His visibly immediate legs stretched out across a kerney, lacerations on his ankles and rice are blurred out outside. The ambuLance police describe the physical condition of both Russell and eve underneath .

the take as soon as they took IT off, you can even outside, you can smell. You can smell the the flesh.

And then trans. For putin ambuLance, I went in there. They started cutting more off of that.

You can see the wounds on the back was ankles in front of his angles, then on his risks as well. Yeah, he said, he said he was on the ground with a rope. That's where the wound came from. Yeah, with a rope on all four of extremities, and that's where the wounds came from. They put kan pepper mixed with honey, he said on the wounds and then covered that with the plastic surge rap and then the duck tape over the wounds.

These horrifying wounds are evident in the photographs that were released too. They show deep laceration ation on both rustles ankles and rests almost if they were just shy of cutting to the bone. IT is nothing short of shocking and thickness what these children were subjected to, even the first responders are seen holding back tears as even Russell are finally taken to the hospital.

Then ruby finally arrives on the scene. SHE enters jody's home wearing a long pink dress and black card again, and immediately pops down on the couch. SHE doesn't say a word, then a female officer. Emotions for ruby to sit up so SHE can be padded down.

And please, you have turn back for me. perfect. You know anything only that I should know about correct weapons, anything that were in fine before you put you up, please vehicle, we need to search your person to mitry.

You don't have anything on you, is anything you have on you. Kay, i'm in a search you before we put you in his car. That's just protocol and can be separate, rare.

Just why stand for? Are you okay? I'm just going going this through and make sure you M. A, C.

Once toovey is arrested, both sheet and jody are taken to the santa clara ivans police station, where Kevin, Frankie is already being questioned in the footage, Kevin is clearly distressed and exasperated. He's just driven two hundred and fifty miles in hopes of rescuing his children from a situation he was completely oblivious to.

So are they all living with you or no.

I over a year, any of them, no another for a year. Over a year I ve been in the separation .

from from my .

wife and family.

What time will be really those lessons?

The last time .

I saw her .

was um the eighteen th out of this month .

we met .

to SHE requested the design over vehicles for the tiles to the vehicles vehicles to drive over when the last .

time you physically saw us so each .

the day that I moved out, shall I turn for two tone .

fourth of chin twenty two or. So my regain that that every hearing in kent and island, have you been at home? No, you know.

home. I don't know what anything like.

Like this is good, man. Like, I would love to be able to help you out this. And I can see in my life because that I alloweth your moment in in what's really going on.

So for you to say that you're unaware of the stars, see your kids can makes sounds kind of problem with you. That sounds kind good to me. Like who lives in at home with your is A X wife? Is he currently a separate wife? But who is in at home with your children?

To be honest, I don't know. I I know that she's there with. Four of the children are two older children have moved out.

There are your home in spring there, and i'm not trying to trip up. I can see you have to do to talk .

to you understand that well, where where I live? Yeah, I haven't .

seen them for over here, okay, but I can only imagine. How I feel, feel and is not, seems that that they Carry this, my hard out.

the age .

to drive. Does he drive right nothing?

How did you find out that you needed to come here at fifty five months? Main strip.

I received a message that I needed to come back up my kids from a police department, and I.

and who is .

that message from?

We now know he was ruby who had put in the call to Kevin to pick up the children and can presume at the time of this interview, Kevin was feeling nervous at the prospect of implicating his then exchanged wife in any way the police then ask him about jody.

A fairness and life cover nel.

and she's, do you Better?

I do. I respect her. I think he is a very honest this for person.

It's clear from his initial interview, Kevin has no idea just how dire circumstances has had grown under jody's roof. He actually didn't even know some of his children were living with jodie. He then goes on to explain how jody came into their lives, his separation from ruby and the extent of his interactions with his family. During the year long separation, Kevin clarifies his only connection with ruby had been making deposits in their shared bank accounts to contribute the care and keeping of their children. Then twenty minutes into questioning, officers finally revealed to Kevin what they found at jody's home in Evans that day.

So I don't recall the exact time some time before eleven a clock today we received, uh, a phone calls from nine one one or discounts that A A twelve to thirteen year old boy was knocking on doors in neighbor, asking for food, water that he was severely amassed. Ated that he .

had was accident, skinning .

strongly, not nutrition. Now, nothing, not a flawed, is sustained less so he has. He had dark tape on his extremities, on his hands, on his angles. And those were covering road burns that were used to type him down. Take a second and think about, I just said that's the condition .

your son.

given that information, her son was kicking the hospital. A one has been applied and granted by the department child value services to remove both rustle and eve from your wife care. So no one right now is going have access to these two children based on their physical condition. Do you understand that?

I understand.

Do you what you can do that behavior?

But I can down that the year that's .

maja maja to find a dor knowledge of treatment of this dish.

The best time is, I don't know the details are, as you describe, that that sounds horrible.

horrible, disgusting. No human being should .

be treated like that.

Okay, that's my thoughts. But again.

might be different .

than we're like saker first seven, okay, good ground top, not saying you, you still not free to code, are you? On the rest, absolutely not. You have what the. question.

Okay, okay.

because and medical care .

now he means that you .

don't have access to in my understanding .

is that they and they will .

be for the next seven.

There's a medical whole long. So further at least the next seventy two hours. This on our understanding .

at least.

The watch 一些 gna provide you that information and they can Better change your questions。 One of those lines, 那 我 就 单 kay。 So would be .

so think things, though, I don't listen to me.

they leave Kevin alone for a beat. He seemed crying and is noticeably blind sided by the situation he is in when the officers returned. Kevin has a question.

For them.

And and be on three. 12月4700万 他 施工。

I think given the circumstances is a highly appropriate. Again, I don't know the wise. I was hoping to gain some insect from you, but. I really, really know that what you want .

to her .

already, you want to gentle down with me.

再 讨论 下 这 哥们。

And I love .

my wife. I just love. And so I mean, this feels like wrong. And today.

Yeah, you, I can tell you, call of card.

I thought I was come here to pick up my kids and know what. I don't know what or why, but I just want my kids. I want my kids is what I feel.

Kevin is released without charges, just as they bring russian for her turn under the microscope.

机场 进入 的， and a few things involving your kids. So first, are you, do you live out here? Or, or you live out and off?

Ruby stares blankly at the detectives.

do you want talk to me about where you live, or how many can do you have? So we just talk with your husband. He said, you, I have six .

kids .

and all together. 就 是从 离婚 开始， i can wait all day. So it's up to if you want to talk to about what's going on, would you feel more comfortable talking .

to one of us want? Thanks, so help you all.

Or if you feel more comfortable talking to hand, I think .

step out all time of year.

okay. So talk tice at all. You only answer that you don't want talk to about anything.

This is just your chance to tell us or from either side story um so your chance to do that, let's up to your talk and let me come on asking incremental questions of your own factories.

说什么 没有 下面 就 吵架。

However, in jodi's interrogation that day, she's at no loss for work.

Yes.

you you know we also with, if I was only home much, do so. No, don't worry about IT. What is here to talk .

to your side? What may detect how you? So I trust my turning.

He said, don't say anything. I said I, nothing to help me like. I know that.

Just let me be there with you. 我 just， U. S. Nice people. Yes, everything is difficult. This is really, if you knew all the pieces, I can get to have a lie employ or it's going on, i'd like to just tell you, I I don't know who you are. I don't have put my words.

I don't know. And that's the the thing about cameras, everything. It's pretty much double recorded audio, video and spread the safety of for you and for us because we don't want to flip your words and i'll be pretty one trate there to support you. So we're not going .

to .

using thing against so assistant then he's an honest to good church. I trust him. Why would he say that to me? That .

well, your charney.

well, i'm just saying his good this man.

yeah.

i'm not this person as well so we get long, great and he just said, do not say anything and psychologist, I watch people fall things all the time so I get IT and I still on your side, get IT, which people didn't do that they do.

In another video, we see the moment jodie and ruby are taken to perforator correctional facility in hurricane, utah. There are some things so real about the way the two women look at this moment as though they both genuinely believe they would never be caught.

You have the right, thank you in face. Boxer push in the, you know, you think you please, thank you. Just prety hands up of your head. So good look to your left.

Thank you.

will give you car problem. I got 好 棒 了。 然后。

OK up.

please.

Thank you going face that offer. We have the topic, please, and let your fingers thank you. I look you up. Thank you. I don't go down. Make you one let me know what you're criminal charges for so you're in the rest it's gonna two counts second degree filling in a child abuse on a collect okay.

ruby is clearly in shock and the arresting officer .

voices concern. Are you okay? I'm wondering if there's like a medical clearance and is like do do you need medical attention before you go to the jail?

okay. The videos released from the day of jodie and ruby is arrest finally complete the puzzle of events that took place on August thirty, twenty, twenty three across the state of utah. a.

The washington county attorney office released photos too, over a hundred of them. The majority of them reveal the inside of joy's home, or eve and Russell had been detained. The house is a far cry from homely build, with giant, mostly empty rooms, staircases in every direction, countries full of food, a large, safe and a creepy concrete basement. The pictures also unveiled the horrible abuse inflicted on rustle in the eve multiple photo show rope injuries and covered throughout the house, as well as stockpiles of ducks, tape, gos and tapper war containers filled with the kind and pepper and honey concoction that we've heard was spread over the wounds. But despite photographic evidence in calls from jail that october, jodie maintains their innocence and web nizing religion to justify her actions.

IT feels like I was being set up to end up here. I I know that sounds as sorrow. I mean, I shall be here. I haven't done anything wrong, and I don't know if i'm gonna be like some kind of example.

But when I get out of here, I have a story to tell and I am, and I tried to do everything I can to protect the children, because that's what's happening, is that kids are being just horridly abused. So where you can, nobody wants the truth. Nobody wants the truth.

Nobody wants the truth. Because his kids, I told that I woke up, the spirit told it's all the developing. You've seen him.

I mean, i've known you what for five years. You have watch to command me, command me, command me, command me. And you're exactly right because he knows, I know what he's doing.

And he uses these kids and he uses all the masses, the adults, the parents that don't hope the kids accountable. So now it's is abusive to make a kids sleep on the floor. Abusive or it's abusive.

You know, that's ridiculous. ridiculous. Can even rain kids anymore? He doesn't seem really animated.

He seems like, you know, the pictures, the pictures are onna destroy you. And i'm like, we didn't do that. We didn't do that. The pictures we did not do. He did that to himself, yes, if we put that on him and then he rubb around and cut himself, yes, that we could do that.

And ruby was making calls too. The first one documented is to Kevin the day after he was arrested.

I want to think, bring IT money makes the money, if shouldn't ever come back. So I would that, if you would. A lot of I found the house.

Maybe I could there, being beat or without, or and then playing with members in my head, and I think I could make something. But I don't want to be done. I want. So I have the money, have that.

嗯， you you why I don't know that?

I don't know .

the .

people's money.

You take the money, but when they have a search one, they have access everything. And I I had a feeling, I want to meet that money.

The bag of money the two are discussing contained eighty five thousand dollars in cash found during the search of jody's home. Ruby had recently withdrawn IT from our kids savings accounts. While it's unclear what the money was for exactly in ruby's journal entries, which will get too soon, SHE else to a loose plan SHE and judy were making to essentially abscond to arizona with Russell and eve. But in this moment on the phone with Kevin, he is made to believe that the money was for a real estate investment that could bring in cash flow for basic family expenses in the event that the two would choose to prolonged their separation during the same phone call while talking with ruby, Kevin received attacks from an old friend who's just gotten the wind of rubie charges.

Are you .

in the new.

I am wondering if they want to share like ask .

your questions. I don't is working for public. I know they are.

And a couple months ago, business in SATA IT was reaching up to me and I ignore their email, but i'm going dark. I'm not be for you. I not be for you anymore. I don't know ever going to find you.

Yeah, may be this. Is A.

have. Report you have one minute remaining for this call. Yes, that will come out that will come out OK. Just when we were when we were given to the jail um the detective putting us in the current judy said, 小姐， so they going .

to be in hospital for three .

days so weird, this is not necessary but trying to exaggerate this 好。

I I don't they didn't show me, didn't show me any pictures or anything that the way that described, but I was very serious. Get to charge in you with .

two degrees of second, two charges of second degree, so many the you .

charges a second degree stony charge you yes, OK, very。 I don't have a really .

hard time understanding that children can be before evil. And what that take defied you think what to take you to fight people. It's not the person you're fighting and that can look like something.

It's not you've been there, you know that. And so I don't know any adult you are going to see the change. So i'm calming out there and I just pray that you're hang in there. You have one minute remaining for this call.

The two speak again, the next day is time. Like jodie, ruby invoke her faith.

The most upsetting thing is that I am completely be misunderstood. That is the most horrible feeling, like my own family misunderstands me. They misinterpret me and and poor joke, they they misinterpret her.

They misunderstand her. SHE put their neck out on the line for people. And then they manager, I mean, IT is just horrendous, the horrendous. And you know that every juice smith, every, every wonderful man of god, has had to be misunderstood. And no, i'm going to get out of this who know maybe in ten days I get out of this if i'm you know if the the truth prevail right now or you know who knows like twenty years I I don't know, you know I 忘了 but I mean， I step, I I say I went through everything I have seen. Because children suffer, all the people here, my jail cell, may have been beautiful women that theyve been hurt.

You know what? Theyve been decided in the drugs in 妈妈 也是 想 送我 去 看 他们说 的， 拜拜。 I have convention for the cars， and I have for myself and I and then to be told that i'm to a final and like, no no, that's not true anyway. Um if you need .

to tell either share or one of your sims well they're .

all in khuds one means all of them that yes you right in you're hearing I don't know if you've considered this that enough be helpful but you could have the house and if and if all the kids go to the health you've got room nearing I I will I will gladly stay away and and let you please be so I don't know if that help him to give into you .

for is thank you. And in the discussions with with my atterley and that the only way that we're going on to retained custody of children that there is he is thirty five years in us and he said, even as you are acquitted and them are released, they will place legal restrictions on your access to the under eighteen children.

I figured such. I figured such. God told me. God told me when I was driving, before I called you. I don't have any information. I didn't know anything in the spirit, said your children are going to to be removed and I just I cried a lot of, I know i'm not done. I'm not ready and got hoping in and then I tests a so something .

has taken everything .

away from me that I love. And i'm a good woman. I don't do not things.

I don't do not do things. And a really good role. 是的。

i can do everything that I can. You keep. Truth in our family and hi, I am committed my family and committed to you in our marriage, no matter what time.

Hey, prime members, have you heard? You can listen to your favourite podcast at free. Good news, with amazon music, you have access to the largest catalogue of add free top podcast included with your prime membership to start listening down the amazon music get for free or got a amazon 点 com slash add free podcast that's amazon 点 com slash add free podcast to catch up on the latest episodes without the ads in a call made in december。 Ruby's attitude towards jody SHE is a surprising and sudden shift.

I could not commented without, without his Grace, without his mercy, without his help. This has been the strangest and the most oracular ous intervention IT IT. Could everybody where they needed to be at separated me from jodie? So i'm not hearing her. And I think just being gone and not hearing her has cleared a lot of things up for me by .

the end of twenty and twenty three. And ruby's last call from jail after her guilty plea, IT seems her interpretation of jodie had changed entirely.

Did you did you see that judy had guilty today? I did that. Yes, that really for you. 嗯嗯， yeah, it's a big relief. It's a big relief there.

There would been positive the other way too, had SHE not pleaded guilty, there's engh evidence that he would have been, could have been convicted for life. But 嗯， that would have been messy. IT would been really messy.

And the cutters, so can. So do you heard that the same outcome, the matter right now? Or 一点 钱 或者 已经 结婚。 It's a it's a really good question as one that I asked. Lamar um no, we can still have different outcomes.

So um L I asked a little bit about this um I wrote out in a text and to her but so the next thing that will happen is I will still out and SHE will fill out a probation and probation and there's another p um paperwork and basically you go to your history and you tell them your history, which there's no history on me there, there's nothing no criminal history, mental health history, nothing and and i'm also hiring um a professional to do a mental health, the valuation just good mental and then that will go to my portioned board. Jodie SHE can lie on her paperwork and SHE probably will. I don't think she's going to give them her history, but I think in the interview is going to be apparent that he is mentally ill.

And so that will affect how long someone you know, because they are looking how how repentent are you? How much responsibility are you taking? How how are you aware that what you've done is wrong? And cheese, not SHE, is the only reason he provided because he really wanted do life SHE knew I would testify.

The other thing is on my predial, when I come up for probation, the the prosecuting attorney can um well often if they think that you're a danger to society, will talk to the prevention ary board and and or write him a letter saying I think he needs to stay where SHE is. Yeah, when was the was that day? I was when we were arrested? Yeah, I went.

I left early in the morning to go to a denis appointment with july. He left IT like three in the morning, and he calls me sometime in the morning. And I, so I went back down.

But when I got to the house, I mean, IT IT looked like IT looks like the movies. There was a red fire truck. There was a black then with tented windows.

There was, there were two ambuLance. There were twenty cop cars. And IT was.

IT was.

did you just stay in your car? No, I, I called up and found a spot depart. He lives on a cold, a sac. I parked in the cold a sac, and I walked up and that the driver was just full of cop.

And I just walked up to the cop and they said, they said, I, you, the mother and I not at my head and so they took me in and put me in the catheter, and I SAT there for a couple hours. So I didn't see jodie at all when I went to the house to turn myself in, and I didn't see her OK and and I went, they take me to the courthouse, and the detective is like, i've got all night. We can talk all night 一点。

I don't say anything. I just say like I want to turn so I could hear Kevin in the high way talking. And then he left him when they took me out of the room, they took me outside and cut me in and said, again, they cut me, the anyone put me, they told me you're and arrest for and then they told me two two of the charges and then they had me get in the in the patrol car in that when I saw judi, I thought judi was also on the patrol car.

And SHE, he had churchy on her shoulder. He could put her hand behind her bags of the, they called her out, changed up the way they arrested her so he could drive with her hands in front of her. And then we had about a forty minute, forty five minute drive to the jail.

And that was last time I spoke to her. We were in the back. We didn't say a hot, we talked all time. But I remember saying how we sing a from a couple henton SHE SHE was he was still justifying how much she's like, don't worry, don't worry.

How court and then and then when we were booked in, they put in separate cells and we've in how global was I oh my gosh, how how much how are I gave this person? And I didn't see IT, but when I realized so so SHE had her chinese name is dark Terry and my 什么 and the more， you know, maybe months to IT, he maybe not even that long he's jodie denied everything. SHE denied having anything to do with this.

And I was shocked. I was like what and i'm i'm still telling the mars like, you know of all of the justice and all of the. You know, talking like a criminal and sounds like a mad person.

He was so patient with me. He was so patient with me. He would look at me. And like chino dumb sounds like, like I said, too close.

Two is seven and and I really believed that and you're just steering like what am I saying that so off and 的。 But that because I really believed IT but but then when I heard that jodie was not talking like that, he was denied in the whole thing. I told me he knew all right and shedding IT.

And then I was like, crap, what what am I done? And that's one thing kind of started turning. I was like, he was, she's not been honest. I I didn't know SHE wasn't honest.

I didn't know he would lie and it's like, what else she's been lying about? Where else where have i've been deceived? Yeah and I was just like the little string that started pulling apart this fabric like, oh my gosh, what have I done?

Ruby wasn't the only one to change her tune. Regard to joe when Kevin was brought for questioning for his second and final time, his recollection of joy is far from the honest and truthful person. He claimed to hold an higher steam in the first interview on August thirty of in this meeting, he's with his attorney, rand castle. They begin the interview discussing a piece of evidence that Kevin was hopeful they would find a collection of jody's writings called the pen papers.

So like and talk to request about. I just want to see totally ran by you. I won't ask you any questions that are incriminating.

We're not looking and use a suspect or anything like that. We just are more curious of the dynamic and jody coming into your relationship, your lives. So if you can just want to walk us through that on how he came in their lives and then wear things started .

to show me, yeah, I can do that. I'll i'll ask first, have you found the pen papers.

the pen paper so we found quite a bit.

we believe they are on the the computer in the restaurant unsealed like they're trying my map. But we do not have a dry copy alt, now because my understanding was we had purchased as a Christmas present for joy in twenty twenty one.

I leather like a leather folder that, you know, three interested or whatever, when in crave on the letter on the outside, the pen paper and a ruby row, detailed notes of everything, all interactions with jody and pam watch from August twenty twenty one. I don't know what you think because like a saturn looking whether debit or is a more banner, no, no, it's like I didn't know what they call IT. It's it's flat is short because .

we do have ruby journal, which is from those days that you mention.

these things are going to be so SHE wouldn't write the stuff he wrote in the pin back. SHE would not ride in her jero, the stuff SHE europe in the pen paper was not intended to be read by anybody until god would decree them to be written a scripture for the whole world. Three.

I believe that .

what we have all because you're .

think the pen would be different, like IT. Well.

I was just in a thing called the pen paper, so I was. And that's how ruby referred to those pens. So they described all of the visions and trances and everything that judy and really went in.

There was like three interest or so, and there were hundreds of pages of rain dog. And as every and that was given to joy in twenty, twenty and two when he left and returned to her home january. So this is similar yeah like every quite okay.

that's not the general that we have. so.

But SHE wouldn't want to destroy .

IT because we we didn't find that in the home. We did find an empty one saying.

That the full thing, but the empty one says the pen paper is on the outside of the back to our photos .

and see effects because everything in the homeless heaven is clearly concerned .

with finding these papers that he hopes could provide contacts for jody's motivating religious extremism. As the interview progresses, he's given the opportunity to paint the bigger picture of the Frank's history with joy and connections.

Ruby had A A very close friend named to page hanna. He lives a maple ton who was a massive fan of connections. And jury held a perhaps in fact, the handers are on the cover of their book, if you know, you probably seen them.

And so rubie started to speak with joy toy and of twenty eighteen, early twenty nine, eight, with the intention of having her be the third. Jolie always had a larger interest in. Communicating with the parents more than with the actual patient for each life always found curious, but her theory was, if if you want to help your child, you have to help yourself first, know how to help to chat.

So SHE spoke with ruby frequently, and the frequency of their communications wrapped up. And in the first conversation the jury had with chat was in june twenty and eighteen, while we were on a trip to the discourse, all of her visits, which rural through zone. But SHE would talk with behind the phone or through um quite frequently so jodie met with things got really they got strange around the the fall of tony tony the hand as were trying to convince and bring ruby e into.

Thank you. Thanks into this organization called connections. And that particularly were focused on things like lust versus love. And and healthy marriages have happier marriages, happier relationships. SHE invited me to go to a IT was like a conference for something held at thanksgiving point 厉害 they were like a hundred people there。 And that was in the fall of twenty eighteen um maybe late summer twenty nineteen, late summer, late summer twenty nineteen.

In my oppression at that time was this is this is absolutely crazy as this is a bunch of manning women that are just looking for excuses to Carry down her husband and's. And mean, that's what I felt like to be. And I was in there.

He suddenly isn't shining away from how he really felt about today's Operation. But at the time, he knew he was important to ruby and wanted to support her. Kevin stayed in the man's group and still met with jody every week. He says he even noticed some positive changes in his homelife, but then things took a turn for the worse.

Can I get weird? Because I get our marriage felt like he was getting Better and stronger. So this was now, you know, summer and fall of twenty twenty and and in addition to that, there was the whole youtube cancel thing.

I how much you guys are even interested to aware of that? But in may have twenty, twenty and videos and ruby released on that dealt with chat just blew up in her face and he was all over the news and hundreds of thousands of tiktok ers, and all the stuff were just piling on and basically burn down like our youtube channel. And overnight, like the income went, we lost ninety percent of the income.

That was hard. Was this like the what what episodes? This is a long type out to being back and.

Yeah and then they started going back and trying to dig and find and then they find as little like, oh, like even went to school at a lunch one have stuff like that. And but he was the big bang with you look really so people, so they went back. So at that time, ruby was really destroyed, and SHE was looking for support.

SHE was looking for someone who would understand her, who who would validate her. SHE found that and joy joe, all all the stuff he did with jet. And worse, because of jury.

Kevin illuminates what many have suspected in judy. Ruby found a figure that both condoned and motivated her questionable parenting style. He goes on to tell the detectives that throughout this difficult time for the family's finances, a continued to participate in connections to march twenty twenty one. And that's when things got a little weird. After attending and speaking at a conference in sane George, jodie invited her closest connections followers to dinner.

And that's where jodie really opened up to the woman in a private conversation that he believed he was being tormented and haunted by shadow figures every night .

out of concern for joy. The han is the family that introduced the Frankie to connections, stepped into action.

I don't know exactly what the hand is. Do all I know is at some point within a couple days of that in and that month of march, the hand has drove down from maple ton and pick jody up and brought her back to their home. And mable ton and SHE lived for six weeks in that home.

And maple, and this is where, like, I don't know what happened, but I do know that there's two different size of stories. They tried to introduce her to a new cold lady that the anus were getting into. So they wanted to merge their goals into one.

We refer to as a call that, oh no, no, no one in a cold says, i'm a done for me prospect two coal leaders merging together from where I stand down. absolutely. According to jody, SHE was held against her wal for six weeks and he was kidnapped and SHE escaped and got on according to the hands. After six weeks of joy, stabbing herself with forks and knives, cutting herself and wanted to commit suicide and trying to seduce the husband of a family, they kicked her out.

The situation Kevin describes raally flips the perception of joy on its head. Her entire brand was couched in a confidence that he had life all figured out, that throw, abiding by her principles, one could be free of pain and suffering and no longer equipped with the support of the hannas. Jodie turns to ruby. Something about what Kevin tells investigators next feels like a clear glimpse into jody's process of manipulation.

Somewhere around mid April, july was back in her home, and ivans and SHE was a hot man. And SHE reached out to ruby for help. And ruby, ruby was always jealous of the hand.

They had a Better relationship with joy than he did. And this is like, goes back to her child. He wanted to be the best friend.

He wanted to be the most like. SHE wanted to the one that everybody knew. And so IT heard her that he felt like he was being excluded from what was going on the hand.

And if you say, why are so many secrets in the hand? As would say, it's not secret. It's secret. And when the time, right, you can note you.

according to Kevin, this is about the time ruby was solidified as jody's right hand woman and IT played into all of her insecurities. From there, Kevin ruby paid a visit to joy in her time of need.

So we went down to joy's house in of twenty twenty one. That was the first time i'd ever been there, and IT blew my mind as you capture you spot in there and on how does a therapist look like? This site doesn't really make sense to me, but we were there and SHE opened up and talked about, you know, her struggles and then what was going on.

I got ta say like i'm a Spark guy, i'm an engineer, I design and how bills and really big stuff and calls professor. I can't explain in some of the stuff that happened while we were there, like crashes in the basement, while we were talking upstairs and and plates like in the kitchen just flying off by themselves, like full speeds, mashing on the wall for the fall by themselves. I are, I can explain that, but I saw that with my own eyes and and I don't have way to explain the other. Then there is some crazy shit going on.

The scene Kevin's describing requires a degree of suspension of disbelief, but he's sticking to his story.

Ruby was convinced that we could believe I didn't want to think to do with that. I tried to like a bishop and loved and say, hey, go to the light the priest did in the church and all that, because scoto your support network. But ruby continued to you, I know we can help like SHE doesn't want that.

Could you imagine like what what happened to a reputation of got out that lets help her? So we we went down like a couple more times between may and August. But he reached the point where in August, herbs hop at the time he was gone over there every night, and you'd be there for like four hours. But even the .

bishop grew exhausted by the undertaking, and things grew even stranger, if you can believe that.

And finally got the point, like I can do, there needs to be some sort of resolution that was at that point that they said, why don't you take her up to your house? And I ohl, no, I I don't want this in my house, but I was being over the head with IT. Like, that's really insensitive.

She's done so much to help our family and your being selfish and he has need and come out like, IT won't be for long. And so I I relented and I was I okay, actually, you know how this kind of be fun. Let's just make IT fun. And like, SHE needs a vacation, so we just go take drives up the canyon and and stuff like that and turned into just like crazy house. The moment he showed up in my house, the weird this crap started happening, lights turned on and that sounds of people walking and walls like, sounds like footprints go on up walls and across the the ceiling and like stuff floating around and and was just IT was weird and I hated IT and I became the resident exercise.

While what you're hearing may sound unbelievable, Kevin and ruby took the supernatural situation in earnest in their own home. They continued to provide jodie with round the clock care.

They started, like, for every four hours and I and moved every two hours at night, then moved every hour and night. And then at some point ruby said, you know what? I'm just going to start.

If I need you all come down and get you that kind of weird. But okay. And and that was that because they started sleeping in the same bed.

ruby was jody's full blown badness. And in september, SHE brought him back up.

Then he started having my trances and stuff, I would say, probably september, where SHE believed that he was going to heaven and seeing god and jesus and talking with them. SHE would get together with pam. Watcher ruby.

Pam and jody will get together and do these interventions. That's what they call them. And so they just go up and locked themselves in a room for four, five hours and then IT come out and and they'll just be on cloud nine.

And then ruby would share with me like he had this amazing vision. And I brought and recorded IT all we have a work to do from god and and and you're part of IT and and the bishops part of IT. And we're all part of bringing all this stuff to the world.

For Kevin, this endeavor was growing tire sum.

and I continued like that until I wanted to be on with life. Now I would call a dragon my heels.

But in ruby is mind, their work was just getting started. That october, ruby drops a bomb.

Ruby said, I want a separation for you. And there was an in home separation. And so IT was was hard.

Basically, there were all these rules now placed on, like, I could leave when I wanted, but I couldn't come back until ruby gave me. I can come into the kitchen to e until every we gave information. And the upstairs were joly.

Round was completely often I can go there anymore in my own house. And there would be, ruby would dictate all of the terms of how our interactions would be when we would. And that was hard.

After the holidays, jodie went home and ruby ended the in home separation. But ruby, pam and jody were still on .

a mission. Ruby, p. Jodie were completely determined to do this work. And they think god have for them. And I thought I was crazy like, I thought I was just should crazy like grey, you have a reputation, you have a multimillion dol business, you have a brain, and you are just giving IT away.

He wanted to legally, like, work with joy attorney to basically key of joy eight passenger and become an employee of connections. So basically the contract was, ruby gives joy everything, and ruby gets nothing in return. Our manager, our youtube manager, the time was like, red flags, red flags.

Like, I don't know how to tell you she's scamming you ruby fired. And I was like, I believe our manager. I think he's right.

Ruby started threatened me with another separation. And just like, this isn't about money. This is about doing go's work.

While he may not have agreed with ruby's business decisions.

Kevin are obliged dynamic for the next six or seven months until l. SHE went on a trip with jody and pen down to ariza. And I think they like when I read a journal, IT SHE went into mexico, something but drugs, or something like prescription drugs for the emergency kids.

Ruby returned from the trip with some .

news for Kevin before he even brought the into the house. I want to talk with you. And that much asked me to leave. And that was, too, I don't want you twenty, twenty two.

And as we know, Kevin honor ruby, he moved out of their family home that summer but continue to attend jody's groups.

I was still in the men's group, but the dynamic changed instead of being like one of the top people that helped run groups and helped support all the student I was, I felt like I got knocked to the bottom, and joe was just piling on me every week in the next group. Another man, that other man, just do whatever you does. A J piles on somebody.

They all pile on A J praise of somebody. They all praise. And so IT really felt like a IT felt like a, like a pack of dogs. And joy was the alpha. And whoever SHE sit the dogs on, they would go.

Whether he praised the dogs were just looking them up and down, and I tell these groups when, and so once I was in separation, every week was just hell, psychological hell. And jodie was running, and everything was on. Soon I knew that the only way I would ever get back into my house was I had to enjoy this approval.

I think that jory's approval I would never get. Room is approval. But I felt like an impossible task, because no matter what I did, no matter how like much, I try to track Better, be, you know, truthful, and now be selfish.

Uh, every week I was like, you are being manipulated. You're being selfish, you are lying. Your you're hiding something. You're still hiding stuff. And I really started to my question, I say, and be.

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That's auto doc, tom slash, imagine, or text imagine to five hundred, five hundred. Until the audio was released, we'd only heard about Kevin's experience to the voices of others to hear. IT, now, in his own words, is validating and corroborate everything else we've learned along the way.

And so that continued for an entire year, but he became more and more, more more isolated until, you know, judy jolie had an approved list of men that I can make phone calls to. IT was basically three men, but two though, well, now all three of those three men were like, we don't want to do phone calls with you anymore because european manipulative. And I will. Who told you that will? Judy IT, so I was completely cut off.

Kevin was officially out of the connections fold. But around that same time, in a confusing turn of events, is when ruby began making contact with him again. But he had an angle. why?

But like ruby wanted to meet in a parking lot and wanted me to sign over titles of documents, like the two of our cars want to be, to sign them over to her name. and. When I was lage, okay, you know I was not i'm i'm in total compliance at this point to slag.

I'm a good husband to see you can trust me. And so whatever he asked likes sign over the the, the cars to me, no question was okay. And then another thing he was like, I might want to do an investment, but I will need your signature.

Do you trust me enough that I could get your signature if I wanted to pursue my own investment? Uh, yeah, sure. What are you say I talk to about SHE, said SHE never did. I don't never signed anything. He never brought anything to me.

But when I returned to the house, everything was back and a neighbor came over and said he asked for the ha rules and and mentioned him that he wanted to rent the house out, which that was like, they, are you kidding me and he apparently he wanted to sell the house, but couldn't because my names on the mortgage. And I think, I think that what SHE was talking about, love, will you sign something if I just put IT in front of you? And you know what, I probably would have like that. How messed up I was.

很快 就 对 me too。

That would have been. But I can't describe to you what tortured and hell I was to live. An entire IT was more than a month really in complete isolation, believing that I was like evil and and manipulative and lying and selfish, and I that I had abandoned my family, and that I was more interested in my selfishness than .

my family. And I think moving forward, you going through that is gna be extremely helpful. Felt that way because a lot of those are the same words that we're used with them and you're going to understand and how they felt.

The interview comes to a close with a few more questions from the detectives. Keep in mind, they've just learned a lot of new information.

He said that he was hardly like these visions, like what did her preview not understand? A retaliation a couple was too late to tell you about. So like one of them, he would was swaling along the beach with jesus, and jesus chAllenged her to go to lock on the water.

IT was a whole lesson on walking on the water. Another SHE would walk with heavenly father and heavenly mother. And SHE learned about SHE had a pet lion and heaven name Charles I got, but he was like this massive line.

And he got to ride the learned that you know all about who he was in this pet line. And there was another one where there was a lot of the tank ones where when SHE would go into possession mode, SHE would talk. And like different voices, IT was really creepy.

But the voices would say, she's ours, were not letting go. She's sats right? She's mine. I'm onna, marry her so if he was faking IT, SHE believed that he was trying to or say, you want to terrorist her bride then you said, just clarifying so less of you saw the kids you separate that 根据 y twenty twenty two， do you have any questions for us? No, I just really interested in the pen papers. Like for my own curiosity, I want to know what was going on and all of those little interventions.

I look back to the photos because, like I said, we documented everything in the home, whether we took out her, if we didn't. And then i'll reach out to mister castle observations. yeah.

So I was interesting .

to ed that .

he was ready align. Kevin told me that when they were having this group meetings, he would never show up. He would show up on the web. Acs, but in place of her person would just be this x for the connection. Cells like this was your the best going on.

SHE never showed her face. SHE always covered herself. But even in the hottest the summer SHE would wear this hot is SHE was smell so bad?

Yeah.

you never wave. And but he was trying to hide her arms and stuff because apparently ruby told me they were just like me related.

So the thing I think it's important for them to know is during that whole time when you are out, the diction was really three or four times, but each time, or at least on some of the occasion he spoke her, she's telling you that everything's blissful. We're doing well. You know, something so much Better without you oh.

that would be communicated to me by jorge every week and the men groups to and I was just like your abandon in your family. Your and and IT always hurts so bad because I like, I want to be with my family so bad or you mean i'm abandoning that. If you wanted to be with your family, you would change.

You would stop being selfish. You would, but you keep being selfish, so you want. And we just felt like, well, how do I stop wanting IT then I that you must change.

Well, how do I change so you gotta anted what you know. So how do I want that? You ve got a change. Is this like perpetual cycle? Yeah, there's no was IT.

I tried to find my way into that cycle and and I felt like you you have about a dream, or there's like a problem you trying to solve, but you can solve IT and how frustrating you feel. That's what my life felt like. And i'm looking back and i'm realizing there was no solution IT was there was you either had to is approval or you did there.

I was in doing anything different than the other man and the group, but they got her approval. So they were praised and they were repenting, and they were doing everything right. I, on the other hand, was manipulative and selfish and enabling. And bb SHE became like the arbiters of of truth, the arbiters of forgiveness, god's own mouth, peace, and was just set out one.

glad the year sing clearly.

You know.

when I came out of IT. yeah. So one .

last discussion. So in the home wind, the world was issued. There was a bag with eighty five thousand dollars cash and understand hurt lawyers, who is lawyer has all that.

I know what we tarry about, island in island, island. We don't know we the money. He was left.

Where was that Green here with the thousand secure on the left? Or assume number one word, yes, retreated. But we don't I can't tell you yes or so.

Here's kind of issue. Step money SHE cleaned out their big accounts.

the kids .

savings of yep, and yours two, you're join account, that's where that money came from. So I don't you can have or if I need to have a discussion with the candidate, tory Cameron would kind like his kids money .

back yeah so they would be safely. So I would go address .

that more. I don't think you want .

to give up and I wouldn't be there.

but I think .

he's using for .

you of the tourney is going to be able to separate the judges now even accounting change without you go. It's it's so what together? Money in some sense.

And but if you .

you do you if you do that, that would .

be your fastest router.

It's just dirty. What he did? Yeah, he told me he told money from my eighteen son. It's wrong. Well.

the other thing that you didn't, I don't know. I mean, there's a lot there, but I think they need to know that while judy was loving in your home, SHE was also reportedly giving therapy to chat. And chat .

was really her please. At that time we were being IT wasn't until CD moved out. Part of his therapy was he needed to.

He needed to pay for his own therapy. So at seventeen, he was paying her nine hundred dollars a month. He did very much about seventeen. He did what was he don't ford live card, basically live card to provide .

a two different ways.

So IT was like the majority.

The check was going to joy three .

times as much. 嗯， it's crazy. I don't want to see senior house when he has. He is making 我 说话 方便， 是不是 说话 不 严重， 那 规定 right？ Not sure if we know that money came from a word life like IT doesn't see like she's had to come within possible that so there .

her bookselling with her books sales.

I can't imagine I can anyway, I need .

to do something. I D want .

to CoOperate, though, and anything related to jody biking health.

We know you've been introduced to a ton of new material, but there's a more when Kevin last spoke to detectives, they included to a journal they found in jody's home IT belonged to ruby and is perhaps one of the biggest pieces of evidence indicating the religious extremism at the heart of this case. The journal is presented as individual scans pages in the document release. If you look them up, you'll see pages upon pages have been rejected. District atterley eric Clark explain the reasoning behind the reductions.

This is an instance where we have minor victims who need to grow up in in the world that we're releasing this information to. And and so where we're balancing three things. We have utah open records law, right, which which says, hey, be transparent.

We have the public needs to know, like when people people shouldn't able to cut a plea deal in order to hide from the public what they did, right? Like you you have to also put out enough that there's a clear narrative of the crimes that we're committed and the evidence that we would have used to get a conviction. And but then we also have minor victims and we we have to be aware and cogers of them.

So the reductions are us taking method thing into account. And there there were things in the journal that had nothing to do with the abuse that was being inflicted. So didn't we didn't react anything because like all this is too graphic of the description of abuse, right? We everything that was describing the abuse that was speaking to like guilt was left.

But but it's a journal. And if there are things that are discussing on the miners or the family or, you know, things the things that were unrelated to the criminal acts, we did our best, not just in the journal, but in everything that we were redacting. We're trying to strike that baLance. We want to release things that are speaking to criminal activity, the mind set of people in what they were doing in this instance, in this awful abuse, while still recognizing that not everything that people do and say has, is, is directly tied to the criminal acts.

He also mentioned in his career, he'd never seen such glaring evidence of criminal activity. So spelled out the .

fact that ruby documented over the later half of the summer what was going on every day and and the conversations that we're happening as the abuse is ongoing, we've never had. I can't have to fight that .

case like that right? In the journal, eve and russia are referred to as e and r. Here's with the journal data, july twenty third twenty twenty three to August twenty seven, twenty twenty three describes these are rubes own words.

July temp twenty twenty three enr have been in so much devient behaviour. They are both furious. Their selfish, sinful lifestyle is being intervened upon our lies.

I mean, all the time he is a compulsive liar. I would have never suspected the cold, dead heart. R has.

I told him he needs to find god. I invited him to fast and pray he is in an out of possession. R told me he would rather have a glass of water than me.

As his mother, ruby's writings indicate, he believes the devil is working through her children. July eleven, twenty, twenty three. Or or should I say his demand stays in the shade? I push him back in the sun, he comes back.

I come back with a cats poker. When I poke his back to get in the sun, he doesn't even flinch. I poke him on the neck.

He is in a trance and doesn't appear to feel anything. He shuts down and says he wants to go to jail. He says he worships the devil and has no interest in changing.

He doesn't actually know what jail means. He just wants the immediate gratification of sitting in an air conditioned car ride to juvie. He told me SHE figures they had been here for eight weeks.

I asked if he felt like he had made progress over the eight weeks. Yes, I told her he was delusional last night. Her screaming and trans headbanging were evidence of no change.

July twelve, twenty twenty three. E makes rimes about my mom starves me and cause IT fasting I cut more off ease head. We doubled ed her with water in the dog wash. He said he wanted to run away.

Jodie told her e has no idea what is waiting for her july thirteen th, twenty twenty three these selfish, selfish children who desire only to take lie and attack have zero understanding of god's love for them. They don't know G O is selling her home, this Priceless snow kenyan gym, so SHE can purchase land where these two can work. G jo has been looking for property with sores cactus, and it's feeling more imminent than need to get these kids to open land.

SHE is willing to consider less than ideal property for them. This is a spiritual matter. I can't, in good faith, leave you with these two gremlins.

I won't do that. These are god's children. One hour later, we move quickly.

Jodie and Julie are going on a road trip to look at property in arizona. Ruby has some cash in the bank. If the property is right, we can move on financing immediately.

We decided the escalation of the kids is not manageable here. And now r will then sit, stand on the patio shaded. E I will bring into the court house, and he can sit in the pantry.

I, they will think they won. They will think they ve got what they wanted. They will relax, then pop. We will drop them like hot potatoes out in the desert, their new home. You are going to get exactly what you asked for.

If you can engage a weak minded soul in a physical activity of obedience, you can begin to break the bonds set and made with the week again, physically doing farm work, lifting boxes, exerting energy exercises, jump rope, milking cows, weeding a garden, giving trenches again, in doing sweating for good, heavy physical intensity. The problem for e and r is the hard labour, all, for the sake of lifting, does not have meaning or do good. We need property where a range can be built.

The kids need a good kick from a horse and a cactus to run into. They need natural outcomes. July four, tenth, twenty twenty three, e woke up.

I reminded her that if SHE wind cried or squinted her eyes at me or showered her face, I would be buzzing her hair. I told her because SHE didn't listen the night before, he would do two sets of boxes, stairs with a five minute break. SHE did the first set easily in, agree ably.

After five minutes arrest, SHE began wimberly. When SHE got to the bottom stair, he slipped and dropped the box. I put her in the dog wash and shaved her head.

Why do you keep being buddies with certain E I don't want to work now to our me. Do you like sleeping on the hard ground? I slept in a soft bed.

Do you expect me to feed? Deal, I got big over him. I will feed or I will not feed a demand me so you would rather have no food and worship the devil.

Or yes, mam. E, upset to do boxes, goes to sleep on basement floor. E is now slipping and falling on purpose on the stairs when he was outside today.

And IT was hot, SHE acted like SHE was dying. So pitiful. I told her the heat in hell is much hotter and god is going to burn the wicked. There is something so incredibly twist, ted, seeing all this particular sly detailed by the perpetrator again, ruby, documenting every moment of abuse seems indicative of a deeply held belief he was doing god's work and would never be caught. And there's more to life.

Fifteen and twenty twenty three, I went to bed around twelve, turning M, E on the floor next to my bed, r on the patio outside my sliding glass window. Oh, man, just writing this. I am shaking.

If pam hadn't volunteer to take abbey to american fork for her acat test, then I would not have been here in my life, and jodie and my families would be forever different. At two forty five A M, I woke up straight out of bed. I couldn't see r he was gone.

He did leave an arrangement of rocks in letters and words. He wrote me a message. The message said, in pebble jail, I will call when I get there.

Julian ice covered the house and yard. Jodie got her flashlights. Jodie and Julie took her car, and I got e up and went in mine.

O god, oh, father, we need a miracle, I see are walking on the left side of the road I call jodie r is shocked to see me the devil wants me in prison. My children dead are stands in the garage where we can see him. He has zero remorse, zero fear, zero expression.

He is cold call list and hard, angry. He isn't calling the shots. Jodie, I agreed to buy ourselves is time until we have more of an environment conducive to an intervention.

We need land to decorate the situation. I brought our into the house. I tied a rope to my feet and him to my waste.

And his r will now sleep in a soft bed with me. R slept. The devil got a bed. Now I know that in order to keep my son, I will need to put him back under sedation.

I N hogging him from other bells and whistles, ls and asked him to breathe and thrive on his own. And he went into arrest and stress back to sedation. We go, the demand is still there.

And I purposefully put our back into slumber, hibernate. There is a soul killing infection in my child, and my hand is forced to not remove. The infection agency does not allow me to rid the infection.

R and e, like the infection, it's so sick. Eight, eighteen, P, M, jodie sends me a text. I found the land.

The devil does not want us to take R N E out of society. He did not want jody finding this property. Her writings continued to zero in on a preoccupation with demonic possession.

Then SHE recounts the binding, july sixteenth twenty twenty three, last night, I tied myself to our, our showers while I watch eyes shower where r is in the closet. I can see the closet door as I shower three sets of ten pushed ups. July twenty third, twenty twenty three.

All children need this experience of pulling of noxious weeds, sweating in the sun, working while thirsty. Ruby appears to truly think this is the correct way to raise children. July twenty five, twenty twenty three, eight thirty A.

M. Ruby takes E R, N, J to chive with cemetery. Each child is given a bag to pick up broken glass and weeds.

We work for about fifteen minutes and a red vehicle with a woman indian shows up SHE sits and watches for about fifteen minutes, taking pictures or video. A woman did take video. IT was released with the rest of the documentation.

IT shows rusal in a desert cemetery, walking barefoot through broken glass and Carrying a trash bag. August first, twenty twenty three, after an hour of e jumping in bushes, we get in the truck to find a cactus. E walked right up to the cactus and threw herself into the middle IT IT was unhuman. When asked to run to a dead tree and then come back, e replied, I would rather jump into a cactus area. Clark says this century was what struck him the most.

One of the more the worst thing is in ruby e journal. SHE talks about the instance where rubi and Julia are sitting in the drive. And and we trying not to use you know minor victims names. I I want to say e so rubi and jody, you're sitting in a truck driving down a dirt road. I think IT was hold hold road while e is out in front of the truck running on the dirt road in the desert in the summer and and jodie gets out and tells her, kay, you can be done if you'll run up to the top of this hell back, which is kind of like that part of the evidence that geordie was having them do the types of things is that, like colleague athletes might be chAllenged to do kind like as as punishment.

So like, hey, you to push push you so can help to run up and you and in the journal, she's running up the hill and back and and doing that and ruby describes IT is at one point she's talking to jody and then she's either to get away from jody or because something he said, SHE jumps into a car, tice and then comes back to the truck and asked her mom. Rubinroth down the window, asked her mom, you know, like, what do you want me to do trying to be totally submissive? And he goes and Johnson the cache ce again, we have other revisions that I I think that jodie was throwing, even if the active three times at do they make her run in the desert in the deal of summer on a road road, but even if jodie had the level of mind control to convince this nine year old to go jump in in the cactus three times, 所以 that's awful。

The journal entries Petered out in August, but the abuse certainly continued. August eighth, twenty twenty three r becomes aggressive and destructive. He starts banging and hitting doors.

I went in and kicked him. Knock this off. I put on a pair of boots.

I went in and kicked him again. You want me to stop? August sixteenth, twenty twenty three day, two of our jumping on a mini trampin.

He needs lots of help with baLance and coordination. today. I asked him to take off one sock by balancing on the opposite foot, lift one foot up and remove the sock while staying baLanced.

He fell over, hit his nose on the ground and began leading. I gave him a wet rag to wipe his face and toilet paper in a photograph taken inside jody's home. The many trampin is pictured at the foot of what one may assume was ruby's bed, August twenty first twenty twenty three.

Hooking is a strategy technique. R seems to respond onto pooing, pouring, cold water, towel whip, August twenty seventh, twenty twenty three, willing to try anything that would grab his attention. I wiped him with a belt yesterday. E two, the later date to journal entry suggest in the days before her arrest, ruby was turning up the heat and SHE was showing no .

signs of stopping.

The abuse outline in ruiz journals is awful, shocking and horrific. And what's more curious is, despite documenting every instance of abuse inflicted at her plea and sentencing hearings, SHE still pointed the finger at joy for everything. IT also raises questions about the general assumption that jodie will serve more time. We asked eric Clark why, despite ruby's own admission in her journals, jodie still came out of this case perceived as the bigger threat to society.

I think IT IT is fair to say that the evidence shows that ruby did that more open than joy, but by no stretch, imagination do I believe that IT was like almost all the time, grube and a little, that jody, you step back and look a big picture. And jody has made a career out of convincing people to isolate and do stupid things. I heard advice, right, like to cut themselves off from family members.

Lee, family members do not have contact with with support groups to ignore church leaders. Like she's made a career out of convincing people that they should only listen to her and do whenever he says. Without question, jody IT is a masterminded gulati and had so much control over everybody that was in that house at that point that SHE just needs to stay in prison until she's no longer a threat to the community.

In on the topic of prison time, he spoke to a realistic estimation on the time the two could potentially serve. Before our interview, eric told twenty twenty he hopes ruby and jodie would have no possibility of release until both russia and eve are over the age of eighteen.

So if the Youngest victim is eighteen, but is kind of a mass, and having her mother or her former therapist, the atomic community would be topper on her. So my line that into twenty twenty interview is they should be both. They should be adults, and in a place that they can handle this without being over the like heart.

So luckily, the board can can look at that child abuse is one of those that generally steps are made so that IT doesn't happen again, right? That parents are removed from kids that they're not allowed to have visits or they're only not to have visits. If there's someone else there, you know so what we're worried about is the emotional health of the kids.

That's why jois such a to me, a bigger threat than ruby coming out as because he loves to go on my, convince people to to follow her. Ruby was doing that also to some degree. I'd be shocked to now that, like the general public is kind of aware of how awful what they were doing is. If anybody ever follows what they were saying again, I I hope that never happens.

So I would hope that they are in at least until the kids adult and aren't gonna be light like not able to get out of bed for month because they get out you know like get in a place where they can cope with that and have a that and where they know how they have a plan for how they're going to handle that. We have child victims of abuse that that want to key relationships with parents, and we have some that don't. And and I think anything should be judging victims and how they navigate those impossible situations.

But the victims should be all enough. And in IT, in a mentally emotional place where they can make those decisions. And if that happens and there's no fear coming out and you know indicating others to to believe that like jutty receive revelation that kids should be started, then I think justice is will have been served. So you're looking at anywhere intend to twenty years, right?

And if you're thinking only ten to twenty years, he responds to that too.

Some people hear that be mad, be like what these guys should be in her life. And how can the prosecutor be saying I should be anything west than the maximum? And i'm not saying those aren't fair questions. I don't think that people should get significantly more prison time just because of the high profile case, right? Just because someone's on youtube doesn't mean ation or two or three or four times longer than they would have. But I don't know that they should be doing thirty of the average time as someone if if someone had done this and they weren't a youtube work, was in fifteen, right? I don't know about that that necessarily .

just finally, we checked in on how the Frankie kids are doing. Now all things .

considered, they're doing way Better. They can be expected. And not not talking about about these money, in particular IT.

But generally, one of the cool part about our job is that we get to see how resilient kids are. IT is hardening to see not in every circumstances. And and everybody has has individual things that they have to work through that, that take a lifetime.

But generally speaking, kids are tough. And when you when you can put kids into an environment where they are loved and cared for and and they're given opportunities to to discover themselves, a learning grow, so many kids can thrive. My understanding is that that our state division of child family services is doing a great job, in this case in particular.

But but generally, you know they they work really hard to put kids in those environments where they can recover and bounce back and then try. I I don't want to give the specifics, but I am super hopeful and optimistic. Fit the Frankie children can can grow up and with happy holy lives.

And as the books close on the ruby, Frankie and jodie held the brand case, eric has an important call to action.

I hope that everybody takes this as a reminder, right? The child abuse is a real thing, and IT typically happens in homes with people that the kids know on our close to, and we need to be working on that as a, as a culture society. We shall be doing everything we can to protect kids whenever where up.

Thanks for listening to the rise and fall of ruby. Frankie wondering plus will be bringing you more long crime original series this year. Subscribe now to find your next true crime obsession and be the first to listen when new episodes are released.

This has been a law and crime production. I'm your host. Polyborus, our executive producer, is just to allow the our producer and writer is Cooper mall. Our editor is brad. Maybe our bookers are elisa icier and dank and special inks to Shawn panzer a for designing our key art.