BONUS COFFEE 392: Keep an Eye on Your Son's Stool with Peggy Rowe
51:37 Share

Why is everybody switching their wireless carrier to Pure Talk? I don't know. I can tell you why I did. I switched from Verizon to Pure Talk because I like the people who run the company and I like what the company stands for. Now, do I also like the fact that they're on the largest 5G network available and that they're half the price of Verizon, AT&T and T-Mobile? Yeah.

Yeah, I like that. I also like the fact that they're a no-contract wireless company with a money-back guarantee. But that's not why I switched. I switched because I am trying, whenever possible, to do business with companies that share my values. And Pure Talk does. They run their customer service entirely out of the United States.

That's important to me. They create American jobs, and they also support America's warrior partnership. This is a great organization that's working really hard to reduce the epidemic of veteran suicide. I appreciate that.

I put it all together. Decision was easy. A no-contract wireless company on the best 5G network available and a money-back guarantee who actually stands for something. Check them out at puretalk.com slash row. Get great discounts on the latest iPhones and Androids. International roaming, by the way, in 50 countries. And a 50% savings off your first month when you switch to Pure Talk today at puretalk.com slash row.

A cup of coffee with my mom. So you're good, mom? Give me an update. Yeah, I'm good. Of course, I've been, my world has been book for the last couple of months, you know, with doing edits and getting the cover ready and the title and the

inside flaps and the acknowledgements and there are just so many, you know, dedication forward. Well, of course you did the forward. God, you're really making people want to read it. Sounds like an absolute slog. Oh no, it's going to be cover front cover. So many words. I rewrite it. The editor's got notes. Everybody's got notes.

You should be used to it by now. This is number four. It's just all-consuming. It takes a lot of time, and I love it. I mean, I love the process. I love everything about it. That said, it is sort of grueling. No, it's funny. We live here in a retirement community where the ages go from about 60 to over 100. So we have all kinds of people here. So there's a saying here that

When you first come in, it's go-go. And then gradually, when you hit maybe 80, it's slow-go. And then when you hit like 95, it's no-go. So it's from go-go to slow-go to no-go. Right now, Dad and I are pretty much in the...

sort of slow go. Yeah, you're slow going. You're slower than you were, but I mean, you're busier than you have ever been. That's the crazy thing. At whatever the speed is, you guys are always in motion. You're like sharks. Very smart. You got to keep moving. As long as you're moving, you're grooving. Wow. I don't know what that means. I don't either, but you know, it's nice to have, um,

Thank you.

Whenever I call him or contact him, he is right there, which says a lot about me. You're a big deal now. You're a big deal. You're a three-time New York Times bestselling author. Your fourth book is done. He's published all four of these things. Jonathan has. His business, by the way, has exploded. He's got all kinds of big shots signed up now. I'm not saying it's all because of you, but you were there toward the beginning of it. He loves you.

He loves being Peggy Rose publisher. And you're right. I wrote another forward. It's four for four now. That's in the can. I hope you like it. I was blisteringly candid in it. I've rewritten it since you approved it. What?

Oh, so do I get to read it again? No. Before? Actually, no. No. After sitting here and listening to you whine about all of the hoops through which you're asked to jump, I didn't think it prudent to ask you to approve one more thing. The cover looks great, by the way. I love the cover. Yeah, me too. I love it. And I love the title. Why are we being coy about it? The book is called Oh, No! Oh, No!

Not the home. That's what the book is called. It's available now. The subtitle is Observations and Confessions of a Grandmother in Transition.

That would be me.

It was 2021. It was three years in April, actually. You want to hear something funny? We're talking about this. I'd love to. We're kind of counting on it. This publishing thing. Six years ago. Now, my first book came out in 2000. So this was six or seven years ago. I went to a big workshop. I mean, one of the biggest in the country. And I met an editor there, big shot editor.

Big like famous or just heavy? Well, no, not heavy. He does a lot of work, gets a lot of work, and people might know his name. And so I paid him a couple of thousand dollars because at that point I was still desperate to get a book published. And I knew I had some good stuff, but I just didn't know why publishers weren't paying any attention to me.

So I paid him $2,000, sent him my manuscript. Well, after I sent it to him, I sent you the story of losing my purse at Walmart, losing Old Blue at Walmart. You read it. I mean, millions of people read it or listened to it. 75 million people have watched that video. The first story I read of yours on Facebook. Yeah, it's a lot.

Well, that editor got back to me. It was a week or two later. He had read my book and he said, you know, I have some advice for you. Forget writing books. Just forget it. Write short essays like the story about your old blue purse and send them to your son. He has a huge following. Just keep writing funny essays. You know, that can be your career. Let your son read your essays. Well,

That was not good advice, was it? And I paid him $2,000 for that advice. I don't have much to do with him now. How do I get in that business? Yeah. I'll do it for $1,500, Peg. Send me your next story. So, I mean, that $2,000 included a lot. I mean, it included his reading it and giving me a line-by-line critique, suggestions, the ability to speak with him.

None of that's worth anything. You know what it was worth? It was worth every penny, but not because it was good advice in and of itself, in my opinion, and not because the actual feedback he gave you later was that valuable. It is valuable, but you can get that feedback from anybody, anywhere, really. It was valuable. It was great advice because it made you angry.

He insulted you. He didn't mean to. And you're very difficult to insult because you see, you don't see people as, you know, walking around looking to do that.

Look, he was just being very honest. The odds are astronomically against an 80-year-old woman getting a book deal who's failed to get one for 60 years. They're just against it. But by the same token, you got a break because I got a bunch of people on a Facebook page and they love that story. That's true. But you don't have three bestselling books. And this is going to be a bestseller too. Honestly, if I haven't sucked up enough, I think it's your best one.

So that doesn't happen because somebody gets a break. It's so tiresome. I read these stories all the time. And Chuck, you've seen them too. Actors, musicians, you know, people love to talk about their big breaks and I love to write about them. But the thing is, if Johnny Depp didn't have the goods, right? Like, yes, he got a break, but then he delivered. Right.

Everybody who's ever succeeded, musicians, writers, actors, builders, anybody in any vocation got a break. Somebody somewhere did them a solid and then they put the ball through the hoop again and again and again.

millions of other people have gotten the same kinds of breaks, but simply didn't have the goods to turn it into something real. And that's why I think big breaks are so interesting. I think about the help that I got along the way. I'll never be able to repay that. But in the end, it's all on you. And I remember you calling me and saying, that was just

Who does he think he is telling me to write short stories so you can read them to your little Facebook friends? What a bunch of bullshit, you said. Wow. I did not say that. Listen, my initial reaction was I wanted to jump off the balcony. Well, that's rational. I thought, you know, I'll never get a book out. And, you know, I tell the story in my previous book, Vacuuming in the Nude.

That's the story of my writing journey, the ups and downs, the pitfalls, the depression, the highs, the lows. I tell the story about going to a writer's conference. Well, through the years, I sent manuscript after manuscript after manuscript off to big publishing houses. And I would receive letters back saying,

You know, it's really good. It's not quite there. You need to work harder. You need to do this. You need to do that. It doesn't fit our short list. It's not what we're looking for. You know, but don't be discouraged, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Well, so I went to this workshop and there was an editor there from the biggest, one of the biggest publishing houses in New York. Say it.

I won't say it. I won't say it. No, no, I don't. I'm not sure I remember which one, but it was one of the top three in New York. Okay. And she said, you are all hopeful writers. Let me tell you about slush night, Friday night slush pile night at the publishing house. They're all required to stay late on Friday night. It's called Friday night pizza slush night. That's what she called it.

They order in all these pizzas and they are required to stay there until they get through the slush pile. And she held her hand up maybe like three feet from the floor. Now, these are manuscripts from hopeful people like me. Exactly. People who went to their mailbox every day, hoping and praying to get a reaction.

Okay, the first person opens it up. Second person takes out the manuscript. The third person puts a rejection letter in. The fourth person closes it up. The fifth person puts it in an envelope, puts a stamp on it. Oh, no, they don't even have to do that because you have to send a self-addressed stamp envelope. Well, I'm telling you, when I left there, I had the worst headache I've ever had in my life. Dad took me that day. I'll never forget it.

It was such an eye-opener. You could see the air, the oxygen sucked out of that room. Here we are, a room full of hopeful writers, many of whom have not been published, most of whom. And this editor has the nerve to tell us it's hopeless. The truth. It was the truth. But listen, she should have known her audience, and she didn't.

That was such an eye opener. And I mean, if I were prone to depression, I'd have had it. I have a thought about that, though, Peg. I think it's similar to what Mike said before, is that she may have been doing everybody a favor, you know, because what she's doing is she's separating the wheat from the chaff. If your heart's not in it. I mean, when I went to acting school,

I had a teacher who said, if I told you that you were going to be successful, but it was going to take five years of you working really hard every day to get that success, would you do it? And everybody's like, yeah, yeah, I would do it. Okay. What if I told you it was 10 years? What if I told you it was 15 years and hands are going up? And he's like, what if I can't ever tell you that?

Are you still going to do it? You know, the people who are driven to do artistic things like you as a writer continue to do it regardless of the feedback. I mean, that woman was probably delivering that a little bit of harsh reality. It maybe hurt your feelings, but it didn't stop you from continuing to do it where it might have stopped your average dilettante writer. Does that make sense? It does. It does. It was...

Almost like tough love. Yeah.

Look, we're desperate for it. In every single school, we have to get back to encouragement is wonderful. Enabling is awful. And we've talked about this a lot, Mom, because the thing that makes you most interesting now as a writer and a woman of a certain experience is that people are coming to you for advice. They're looking to you for wisdom. And

You know, a lot of people who are still hanging on to their dream are going to say, well, you know what Peggy Rowe did? She wrote every day for 60 years and then she got the break she needed. And then, you know, she's got the goods just like I do because you all think you're great. Right. I mean, everybody thinks they've got the goods if they can just get a break. But that's the lie.

You don't. Most writers don't have the goods. Most of the stuff in that slush pile was slush. Some of it was probably good. But the odds are so bad that the real truth and the real favor that comes in a moment like that is from people who are just telling you the truth, not of your talent, but of the odds. You have to appreciate the odds. Yeah.

And also, there's a difference between an aspiring writer who has sold everything, okay, who's living in the Volvo, who's got their Smith Corona back there, and they're writing the great American novel, and they're eating dog food. And by God, they're going to stick right to it until it kills them. Those people, to Chuck's point, I don't know how to think about them. Do they get extra credit because they're committed? Because they're that persistent? You...

You taught school, and then you kind of quit that to raise three kids, and then you were writing all the time. You wrote on the edges. You loved it, but it really never became your vocation. Yeah.

And so I would talk differently to that person than I would the guy in the back of the Volvo channeling his inner Salinger. At this point in my life, I don't give advice broadly anymore. I'm scared to death. You know, 6 million people. Listen, I don't know what they need to hear. The only advice I really ever give anymore is very personal. If I actually know the person I'm talking to and do I believe they can write.

Chuck, how many people stop you now or talk to you anymore about voiceover? What do I do to get in the voiceover business? You know, people tell me I got a great voice. You know, where do I sign? I get a lot of those. I get a lot of unsolicited email and DMs asking what to do. And you're right. There is no blanket uniform thing. Everybody's circumstance is different. You have to get to know someone before you can give them real advice, I think. And I think you agree.

The first major battle of the Civil War was fought 165 years ago in a place called Manassas, Virginia, and it was a bloodbath. Things did not go well for the Union, as I recall. It's remembered today as the first battle of Bull Run, and I learned all about it from a park ranger when I went to that battlefield in person as a kid in the 8th grade on a field trip.

I'm telling you this because when it comes to learning about and appreciating American history, there is no substitute for actually being there on the site of the most decisive battles our country has ever fought. Well, there's another battle raging today at Bull Run, and the outcome is uncertain. On one side, you got some developers with a lot of money who are desperately trying to build an enormous data center right next to the battlefield.

On the other side, you've got the American Battlefield Trust, a scrappy little nonprofit who exists for one reason, to keep the most hallowed land in the country from being buried under a sea of asphalt from endless housing subdivisions, big box retailers, casinos, Formula One racetracks, solar farms, and data centers like the windowless monstrosity they want to build right now in Manassas. Well, you can probably guess which side I'm on.

This summer, the American Battlefield Trust is working hard to purchase, restore, and protect some of the most important battlefields of the Revolutionary War, the War of 1812, and the Civil War. I'm talking about places like Lexington and Concord, Gettysburg, and of course Manassas, all of which are being threatened by all sorts of projects that will literally swallow up our history.

Please join me in the fight to preserve our battlefields for future generations at battlefields.org slash Mike. Spend just a few minutes on their website and you'll see how the American Battlefield Trust is using augmented virtual reality to bring history to life. And while you're there, make sure to request your free copy of their award-winning history magazine. It's called Hallowed Ground, and it spells out the stakes instantly.

in no uncertain terms. That's battlefields.org slash Mike. Well, you should, but boy, oh boy, we're not. You can go to the library, mom. How many books have you read on writing, including the great one on writing by Stephen King? There are thousands of them. There are hundreds of voiceover books. So you want to be an actor? Read this.

It's like, oh my God, the easiest thing in the world to do is to tell somebody how to do the thing that you never actually figured out. I'm sick of it, mom. I'm sick of advice. I'm sick of know-it-alls telling people how to do it. Okay, let's change the topic. You're getting down. We're just getting interesting, actually. Well, anyway, it's exciting. I'm so proud of you, but I'm worried for you because I know that

You've gotten manuscripts sent to the home. People have asked you to read things. People are asking you all of the time, what do you think? How can I get this published? It's so poignant to me. People with their dreams.

They're so fragile. And you're so sweet, and you would never tell the story of a slush fund. You would never take $2,000 from somebody and then tell them to get their kid to read their crap. You wouldn't do that. But I would. You would not. Yeah, I would.

What you should do is just tell people, be honest about what your career is and how difficult it is. I mean, they only see you when you're having a good day and you're producing. They don't see you in all the- Have you seen Dirty Jobs? Have you actually ever watched that show? Are you kidding me, Mom? I'm upside down in a river of crap. Nine days out of ten. But you weren't giving advice at the time. I mean-

Were you? I don't know. I hope not. I mean, God, who wants? Well, this is true. I mean, dirty jobs aside, you have a career now and you're a very busy person, very active, but you make everything look like fun. And I know it's hard work. I mean, even if you love it, I love writing, but it is work. It's not quite as hard as being a mother. Yeah. Yeah.

I think mothering, you know, from the beginning on is more all-consuming. It's more challenging, more difficult. Well, it never stops, does it? I mean, you were like always... It really doesn't. Stay out of the sun, Mike. Put your sunblock on. Put your straw hat on.

Well, there you go. Now, see, that's how you bring it back around. That's advice wrapped up in a command delivered with authority, certainty, and, you know, a lifetime of experience. So you're very comfortable telling me what to do when it's in my best interest or when you believe it's in my best interest.

Well, that's what a good agent would do. That's what a good editor would do. That's what an honest broker would do. They just wouldn't wait for the relationship to present itself as mother-son. They'll just tell a total stranger. I don't know. Maybe it's too inside for most people, but I'll bet you most people listening in their, whatever their job is, whatever their life is, they've had moments where the sudden truth of the thing has been laid out before them in such a

stark, jarring terms that it leaves them feeling the same way you felt. I remember sitting in on a casting call for the first time. Chuck, you've done this because you've produced movies. You've hired actors. But how many years did we spend...

driving around town to audition for some smug, supercilious old crone sitting there with her list of things that the client requires and looking at you down the end of her patrician nose, weighing and measuring and finding everything before her sadly wanting and lacking. And there you stand just with your pearls, casting them, doing your best and

You're not getting the feedback you need. Or worse, you're being told, you know what? Thank you. Thank you. We'll be in touch. But they're not going to be in touch. They're never in touch. Not really. What you need. So you never really stop getting advice. That's what you're saying. I mean, I don't care what you do. I'm saying in this business, the people who hire you are incentivized to keep you on the string.

They're incentivized to bat you around like a cat with a ball of yarn, to play with you, to keep you in the game.

to perpetuate the idea that the next audition is going to be the one because they need all of that supply. They need you with your dreams and your hopes. They need the people lining up outside, right? To try, you know, they want it that way. They want the supply so much larger than the demand that they can pick, can choose and wait until everything is just fine and perfect and

They just want you to be part of the slush pile for years. That's it. Boo-hoo. Those poor people had to go through that slush pile on a Friday night with their pizza. Well, guess what? They love it. They love it. They need it. Isn't it possible, though, that the casting director who says, oh, that was great, we'll be in touch, is really just saying that because she doesn't want to hurt your feelings? I mean, having cast stuff, I know that when people come in,

I'm rooting for them. Having been on both sides of the glass and voiceover, having been on both sides of the stage or the screen, I want people to do good. I want someone to come in and blow me away because then it makes it easier. Well, sure. Sure. But how often does that happen?

It's very rare. Do you ever give them advice? I mean, do you ever say, I know you would never say something like, get another hobby or get another job. This isn't going to work for you. You would never say that, would you? I've come very close to that, but I do it in a different way. For instance, I'll give you an example. When I was teaching voiceover, there was a guy who was probably 65 years old and

who came in all the time, took my class every week. Every time I did a workshop, he would take this class. And he was starting. He just started when he was like 63 or something like that. And he's just been taking classes for a couple of years. And I pulled him aside. And he always wanted to take private classes with me. And I said, I don't think you want to do that.

And finally, I pulled him aside and I said, look, what do you hope to accomplish? What's your dream? And he said, well, you know, I want to get good at this and then compete with the big boys. I said, you mean the guys who are your age who've been doing it for 40 plus years? You know, you want to compete with Don LaFontaine and, you know, these other guys who've been around forever? He was like, well, yeah. And I go, I mean, there's no way that you can go back in time. I said, do you think that's really possible? Do you think you can? And he said, well, yeah, I want to. And I go, well, that's different, you know, you wanting to.

But I just asked him the question. I said, what do you want to do? What are your goals? Do you think that's realistic? And eventually he stopped asking me for private classes. He still showed up for every now and then. But it really was more of a social event, I think, for him, which was great. And he loved it. And he was fun to talk to. He had a great sense of humor and everything. But it was obvious to me that, yeah, this was a hobby. He was not going to get very far.

And maybe he was just looking for some positive feedback from time to time, you know, maybe. He asked the wrong guy. Sorry. Well, look, the other thing is, and Chuck, tell me if I'm wrong, but you've dedicated a big chunk of your life to doing this and you're good at it and you practiced and you went through years of rejection and then you had some success and so forth. And, you know, it's a journey and,

And to be at that point in your career and to know what it takes to do what you've done, to have some guy come in and say, oh, yeah, I just thought maybe, you know, I'm retired now and I got some spare time. So I'd like to start making a couple million bucks a year saying, in a world, one man. Right? It's like that on some level probably pissed you off a little bit. Had to.

Had to. So you just walk in here and you're going to get some tips from me and then you're going to go out there and crush it, you know? Yeah. In other words, you're going to do something at a level that I couldn't do.

I don't enjoy destroying people's hopes and dreams at all. But I've just got to the place where I am more afraid of accidentally enabling them. I don't want to say something to somebody who's 20. You know, flash forward. Now they're 63. And they're in the back of the Volvo with the Smith Corona still banging out their novel still. It's like, look, guys.

This is a big part of our foundation too. We talk all the time about finding an opportunity that complements the skills you have. It doesn't mean you can't develop those skills. You'll spend your whole life getting better at it, but-

It's the idea that, oh, I've always dreamed of being a writer, so that's what I'm going to do. And it's like, okay, well, I wish you well. But those dreams have absolutely nothing to do with the reality that you've chosen. I was afraid you were going to say sitting in the back of a Volvo with a Smith & Wesson. No.

No, that would be a really different direction. That's dark. That's dark. Not really. You already kicked the door open with diving off the balcony because you get $2,000 to somebody who said, you know, maybe you're not the next Eudora. What's her name? Welty. Yeah. Right. So...

Look, it really is such an odd mix. You know, what is the duty of care to a four-time bestselling New York Times author regarding encouragement? What is my duty of care? What is Chuck's? How can you be a decent mentor to anyone and not be anything but unfailingly honest? Sure, you can be kind, but all the kindness in the world doesn't change the fact that that slush pile is real.

And that your stuff is probably in it and it's probably going to wind up in the trash can. Yeah. I just want to say, Mike, that when you were saying before about people asking it, crushing their dreams, whatever, my favorite thing is when people would come to me and say, hey, can you teach me voiceover? Because I'd really like to pick up a little extra cash. I'd like to do this part time. And I'm like, would you? Okay. Yeah.

But I mean, can you imagine that, Peggy? Can you imagine somebody coming up to you and saying, Peggy, can you give me some tips on writing? I'd like to write a couple of articles to pick up a little extra money. Seems easy. Oh, Chuck.

People do come to me and they say, oh, I have so many stories. Oh, you wouldn't believe my life. And I say, well, sit down and write them. You know, start writing today. Write these stories. And they'll say, well, yeah, but I'm not really a writer. But you are.

You know, I've listened to a lot of stories and some of the stories are in my book. But then there are the people who think, I am going to write, as soon as I finish this job, I'm going to sit down and write that book. People don't realize that you have to do your homework. I mean, there are years of homework involved.

to do before you can write. And maybe all those years ago when I was writing and submitting and not getting any response, maybe I wasn't ready. Maybe my work wasn't ready to publish. Maybe I'm indebted to all those rejections. I don't know. Maybe. Mom, it's 100%. 100%.

Those rejections, that's the stone upon which the blade is sharpened. Yeah. Not the platitudinous, attaboy, stick with it, stick with it, never quit. That stuff, that's easy to say and dangerous to say. How many times have we said it here? Staying the course only makes sense if you're going in the right direction. Right. Very smart line.

Very smart. And that hobby thing you mentioned, Chuck, it's true. But it's also true, I think, what I said about my mom didn't leave her family and her husband to embrace the artistry of the craft. She didn't put all of her eggs into the writing basket. I don't know what to say about that, that that either goes to her lack of commitment or her prudence. So-

You can tell the story any way you want, I suppose. But what is undeniable is 60 years of trying. I really don't understand how you did that. Why didn't you quit? Why didn't you quit after 20 years of failure or 40? Well, I finally got published when I was 64, and that was very encouraging. No, no, no, no, no. I'm not saying when you're 64. Why didn't you quit when you were 44 or 54? Oh, well, because I was...

Nancy Fine. My cousin's calling me. Nancy Fine, that's your cousin. I know. Go ahead, take it. Put her on. No, hon. I'm turning it off here. I'm sorry about that. That's a feature I'm not familiar with on the iPhone. I know. I can't read. When it just barks out a name? Yeah. Nancy Fine. Yeah. Yeah, that's the kind of thing you definitely want to disable before a meeting. I just turned it off. I just turned it off. Okay. Good. Just in the nick of time. You know...

36 minutes in. Good. Good. There are things, Mike, I do know this and you had a ton of writing courses and so have I. And there are things that you have to do that are not all that much fun. You know, all those writing prompts they give you at workshops, things you're not interested in, but you go ahead and you do it and you try to make it as good as you can.

Because it's part of the learning process. You have to get through certain things for the outcome, you know, that you want. Just like being a mother, you have to get through certain things. I can't help thinking about when you were little, you were like,

Maybe you were four years old and you were playing on the floor with your tiddlywinks. You remember what tiddlywinks are? Little round plastic things like little coins. And you flip them and you try to put them in a cup. And your little brother, Scott, who was like, I don't know, maybe 10 months old, sitting in a playpen alongside of you. Well, I had to use the bathroom. And I said, keep an eye on Scott.

But when I came back, all your tiddlywinks were gone. They were nowhere to be found. The only thing that could have happened to them was that you fed them to your brother or you turned a blind eye as he reached through the little playpen bars and ate them. Just little colorful pieces of plastic. They look like candy. Seems like a good time to interrupt with a

Shameless plug for my mom's new book. Oh no, not the home. She finally finished it and it's great. I mean, obviously I'm ridiculously biased.

It's her fourth book. I'm pretty sure it's going to be a bestseller. It's now available wherever you buy books, and I encourage you to go pre-order a copy. It would help a lot. I don't know how she did it, honestly. Maybe Irma Bombeck could have done it, you know, write dozens and dozens of short stories that are laugh-out-loud funny about life in a retirement home.

But she did it. And she also strong-armed me into writing another forward. So all that happened. And it's going to be available to read in October. But again, it would be awesome if you would pre-order a copy today. And as long as you're being incredibly generous to the Rowe family. My movie premiered today in theaters across the country.

That's called Something to Stand For, if you haven't already heard. And you can get tickets over at somethingtostandfor.movie. You can also read some reviews that just made me blush so hard I thought I was going to faint. People have been so kind about this thing. Friends of this podcast and some very famous authors and some celebs and celebrities.

Most of all, earlier this week, we previewed it for a few hundred Marines and sailors and their families over at Camp Pendleton.

And they loved it. And they all stuck around and said such nice things. And it's just good. It's good for me to be doing this. It's really satisfying. And I think you'll appreciate it. It'll be in theaters through the 4th of July. Something to stand for.movie for tickets and previews and a trailer and all that kind of thing. And, oh no, not the home. Confessions and observations of a grandmother in transition.

I think I like the subtitle better than the actual title. But you'll love the stories. All right, then. Where were we? Oh, yes. My mother. Red, yellow, green. Very vibrant. Absolutely. I was... Oh, my God. Called my doctor right away. And he said, well...

No sense coming in for an x-ray because they're plastic and they won't show up on an x-ray. What you need to do is feed little Scott mashed potatoes, a lot of mashed potatoes, and then keep an eye on his stool.

Well, I mean, what kind of advice is that for a mother? Keep an eye on your son's stool. Well, that's what every mother wants to do. He was right. And over the next couple of days...

Scott was very productive. I mean, his little diaper was filled with psychedelic poo. And you couldn't get enough. You were so funny. You were such a child who didn't want to get his hands dirty, wouldn't walk in mud. You were just such a knee freak. And when I would change Scott's diaper, there you were with your eyes wide open.

Just so excited as to, wow, what's going to happen next? Yeah. Yeah. It was like an insane vending machine. It was amazing. Press this button. Ding, ding, ding, ding. And as much as I didn't want to do that. He made it exciting. The doctor gave me good advice and I took his advice. And so everything turned out well.

We never did find the winker or the, I don't know what you call it. There's one that's bigger than the rest. One is big. That's the one you flip with. And the others are small.

I think the winker's on the front end. Well, anyway, we never did find it. So for years, every time Scott would have a stomachache or a headache or a runny nose, we'd say, uh-oh, it's the winker. It's the winker. The winker's lodged down there somewhere. I don't say it anymore, but anyway, yes. So sometimes, well, I think I'll just drop that subject, but

As a mother. Well, I'll pick it up. As a mother. I'll pick it up. I can run with this.

Hey, look, feces from every species was what, uh, how TV guide described season one of dirty jobs. And it is true. I, as a kid, I'd go out of my way to avoid the mud. Oh, absolutely. The last thing in the world I was really interested in doing is rooting through my brother's scat in search of tiddlywinks. But that's what dirty jobs was.

If I were trying to write about the last 10 minutes, that, I mean, that's a layup, right? You've just given me an inciting incident. You found a moment in my life when I realized that there was something in poop that could be surprising, delightful, informative. Fascinating. I mean, it's just a mystery. Fascinating. That's it. Fascinating. Fascinating.

Mike, when did you first develop your fascination for feces from every species? Well, that's a good question. I think it probably goes back to the day I fed my brother tiddlywinks and watched him poop them out in just a flurry of mashed potatoes. And that changed everything. Mike, did you in fact feed Scott the tiddlywinks? Do you remember this event? I don't remember it, but I can tell you this. I would not...

And this doesn't speak well of my character, but I would not have sat there and watched him eat them. But I might have fed them too. I get you. I mean, that was your game. You liked that game and it was disappearing fast.

I was just taking it up a notch. Now, once the tiddlywinks and the winker were recovered, did it go back in the game box or did you throw it in the trash? I think it was trashed, to tell you the truth. Because you can tell me to look for it, but you can't tell me to wash it. Yeah. Well, it really just laid the groundwork, Chuck, for a much more

A serious event about a year later with our ivory chess set. And that didn't go well at all. What did you feed that to? Well, Scott also, but it's a very different process getting a rook, a knight, and a queen out of your little brother's ass than a couple of diddlywinks. Gosh, Michael, I don't know.

You're going in a different direction. But he got a hold of that bishop. Holy smokes. Did he really eat the chess pieces? No. Dude, who would eat a chess piece? I don't know, Scott. Our dog. Oh, yeah, our dog ate it. Well, our dog would eat anything. I mean, if it hit the floor, it was his. It was hers.

Yeah. Shims, right? Oh, my. Yeah. What a taste. She had a taste for crap. She just loved hot manure. Hot manure.

Hot manure out of that horse's butt. Listen, the fresher, the better. And what Mike's saying is true, but he's saying it a little crudely. It's true. She loved horse manure. Oh, clean it up for me, Mom. Explain to the people in nice, clean terms how our dog enjoyed fresh manure right out of your horse's butt. Make it nice. It wasn't only fresh horse manure. I caught her one day going through the cat's litter box. Oh, God.

Now that is a disgust of another. Oh, my golly. And then there's the day that the neighbor's two male colts were castrated. And as they took the parts from the horse, they slung them over into the stream. And our dog was standing there like an infielder waiting to catch a fly ball.

Man, she ate him up. Snagging him out of midair. Well, man, she didn't lick me in the mouth anymore, I'll tell you that. This dog would follow the horse around, see the tail go up, and step right in and open her mouth and just snag it in midair. She was such a good dog, but God, she stunk. Terrible breath. I wrote a poem for the horse.

The horse was Cindy and the doll was Shem. Said Cindy to Shem, I just couldn't wait. I left your lunch by the garden gate. Yeah, let's see how Jamie can illustrate that one. Poor Jamie. For those of you keeping score, Jamie Buckley said,

is an illustrator who we met a couple of years ago. My mom was reciting some poems off the cuff, and I just thought, God, what a great book this would be if we get the right illustrator. You had told a, what was the poem? It was about turtles and houses. Oh, yeah. Turtles are pokey wherever they go. They carry their houses. That's why they're so slow.

And there's more. Well, this guy is so fast, this Jamie Buckley guy. Like, I think later that day, he sent a very detailed illustration of a turtle with an actual house on its back. It was whimsical and funny. And so we reached out and said, look, I don't know if my mom's going to write a kid's book of poetry, but if she does, you know, you're somewhere near the top of our slush pile. And he said, thanks. And so we went to the

And then we came out, you wrote Vacuuming in the Nude, and we thought, you know what? I don't think we can really photograph you in the nude at this point. I'm not saying people wouldn't be repulsed by the book as a result. I'm not saying they'd be repulsed. No, I'm just saying that the publisher would have issues. But we wanted you naked.

But not, you know, disrespectfully so. And Jamie drew this great illustration with you with a barrel, wearing a barrel. And it was great. And so that became the cover of the third book, which, by the way, I don't want to throw anybody under the bus, but the pushback from the publisher on that was significant. They didn't like it.

Oh, no, they didn't want it. They were like, that's not Peggy's brand. I'm like, really? You don't know my mother. My mother's picking tiddlywinks out of mashed potato poop and loving it. All right. Anyhow, Jamie did the cover of this most recent book, and I actually think it's even better. It is good. And you know what else is interesting about Jamie, Chuck? Yes. You know how many grandkids he has? No. 28. That seems like a lot. How many kids does he have? 13. 13.

I might be wrong. He might have 26, but I think he has 28 grandkids and 13 kids. And he's younger than me. Wow. That's why he sketches so fast. I have a lot of time. He doesn't have enough time to do a lot of stuff. Hey, listen, we got to wrap this up because your mom has a hard out today because she's going to dinner, is it? No, early dinner. Early dinner at the home? Yes. Yes.

We're going to eat. It's a beautiful day in Baltimore. And so we're going to eat at the Quarry Grill because they have outside seating. So six of us are going to have our Friday evening dinner. Excellent. And then we're going to play cards. Well, look, it was what game? What kind? The four women will play pinochle and the two men will shoot pool. I haven't played pinochle in years. I don't think I've ever played. It's a good game. It's fun. Yeah, it's a good game.

But listen, I want to remind everybody that today, the movie, Something to Stand For, comes out in theaters. Today, June 27th. I didn't want to make it all about me, but it's true. I am in this movie, and I wrote this thing, and it's out there, and I'm super excited, Mom. I hope, have you got tickets yet? I don't have tickets, but I already saw it. I was given an advanced showing, and

What did you think? Oh, my. You know I loved it. I mean. Well, the people listening don't. So go ahead. Throw a little love to your son. I'll talk about your book. You talk about my movie. Really, it's well done. Mike talks about the stories that he's written. There are real actors and actresses acting out these stories. And Mike's a great writer, as you know. I just thought it was very well done. Very professional. Yeah.

And who doesn't like the sound of your voice? I'll prepare a short list. How many stars would you give it out of five? Well, it depends on what you're looking for. I'm looking for five. If you're looking for a romantic movie, it's not really a romance. If you're looking for murders and intrigue, there is some within, but I wouldn't say the overall package. But if you are...

a patriot if you're somebody who loves this country, who loves stories about this country, about the forming of this country. And well, you'll just eat it up. And you know what? It's going to be here on the 4th of July. So I might go to the movies on the 4th of July.

Well, that'd be something to see. I'll see if I can get you a ticket. Yeah. Okay. And if anybody would like to get tickets, you could go to somethingtostandfor.movie.com. Somethingtostandfor.movie.com. But wait, there's more. My mom's done it again. Her fourth book is destined to be another New York Times bestseller. It's called Oh No, Not the Home, Observations and Confessions of a Grandmother in Transition. Yeah.

We didn't even get into that, and it's probably just as well. I wrote the foreword. I don't mind telling you it's not my best work, but it's decent. Overshadowed somewhat by the incredible quality of the book, which really is great and far more exciting than the log line that Chuck wrote the other day, which was a look inside a geriatric facility or something like that.

It's so much more than that. Why you got to do that, Chuck? Why you got to do that? It's so much more. No, your introduction was much better. If you want to get this book, you can pre-order it now. It's at micro.com slash mom's book. Micro.com slash mom's book. And it's an absolute five-star affair depending on what you want. If you're looking for a real page turner, I don't know about that. You mean like to see who done it? Or a pop-up. Yeah.

It's a great book, folks. You'll love it. And if you haven't picked up her first three, you'd be fools not to. In the meantime, Mom, go enjoy your dinner, your pinochle, say hi to Dad, and congrats on another book. It looks terrific. Thank you. Thank you. This was fun. You're welcome. Was it? Yeah, it was fun. Well, yeah, you don't call me any other time. Depending on what you're looking for.

I was just looking for just this. I don't want to get all your good material when we're not rolling. That's no way to go. Was there any good material today, you think? Let's let the people decide. Folks, if you thought there was any good material, let me know on my Facebook page or go to my mother's and tell her. Or leave a five-star review at Apple and tell us there. Or write your own book and tell us there. I'll write the foreword for that one, too. All right, hon, I have to go. It's time for dinner.

I'm so sick of the forwards, mom. Don't ask me to do it again. Okay. I'm really out. I'm tapped out. Say goodbye. All right. Love you. Goodbye. Goodbye. Bye. Goodbye. Love you guys. Take care. Yeah, yeah. Goodbye. Goodbye. There's no podcast without a sponsor. Thank them for paying the freight. Please don't fast forward through this.

But of course you don't hate them. You love them. Admit it. You love Groundworks. You love Three Day Blinds. LifeVac. How do you not love LifeVac? All they do is save life after life after life after life after life. You should get one, by the way. Aura Frames are fantastic. Build Submarines are changing lives with better careers.

Field of Greens is awesome. ZipRecruiter Pure Talk. American Giant. U.S. Money Reserve. The American Battlefield Trust. And of course, our dear friends at NetSuite. Couldn't do it without you.