My Tween is Pulling Away. Is That Normal?
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What do you do when your kid is getting older and no longer wants to talk to you? Where you start to wonder, is this just normal tween behavior? Or is there something concerning happening that I should be more on top of? Today I'm talking to a mom who is very open about the struggle she's going through with her son. Her son has always been quiet, but he seems to have gotten more quiet. And she's not sure whether she should let this stage be or intervene.

So my older son is 11 and a half. Over the past, I'd say, year or so, he's just been getting more sort of quiet. And I have been looking for resources to help me figure out whether or not this is normal quiet. And so I keep wishing someone could look inside our home and tell me, that's not normal or that's normal because, you know,

As a mom, you're the only one who sees your kid all day, every day. Sorry, I'm getting a little emotional. So yeah, just trying to figure out if he's okay. Really, whether he is or isn't, figure out next steps and what I should be doing for him. So thank you for articulating that so clearly, so poignantly. I mean that, and I promise you never...

I have to apologize for your feelings with me. And you don't also need to apologize for apologizing for your feelings. So let me make that clear as well. You know, I think at any stage of parenting, we, you know, can be very emotional when we think about things with our kids. And certainly the like tween into teen years are highly emotional years for a parent. I've been living that myself. And so that is completely normal.

So tell me a little bit more, maybe specifically what's going on that kind of gets you into that. Is this normal or not? And I actually love starting with a very specific situation. So what, maybe what is something that's happened recently that kind of brings up this, is this normal? Is my son okay or not? Kind of fear. Yeah, that's a good question. Um,

So most days he will come home from school. I try not to barrage him with questions. I'm past the how was your day thing. It seems too obvious. It's too sort of in your face. It's too, you know, nebulous because you get back the good and then he's moved on.

I think what's happening for me is I hear so many stories from my friends about their kids. Like, oh, my son came to me the other day and he was telling me about X, Y, and Z. And I think to myself, like, he doesn't come to me and tell me those things. Like, he doesn't rush to tell me about really anything. If I press him, he will answer pointed questions. But

he has to be pressed and he has to be pressed pretty hard. And he's not angry. He's just, I keep saying quiet, but he's quiet. And he's like, he just seems like he's in his own head, but then he will go off and play video games at night with his friends. And I hear him lively, yelling, laughing, trading stories. So then when I say to my husband, like, do you think he could be depressed? Like, do you think we're missing something? Like,

He'll say, I don't think he would be running up there and having fun with his friends. I think it would globally transcend all things. But I don't know. And he doesn't know. We're not child psychologists. You know, and it's just constantly on my mind. It's constant. I'm Dr. Becky, and this is Good Inside. And we'll be back right after this.

So I'm making this up, but your son, Jack, comes home and you're like, hey, and maybe a short conversation. How was your day? It was good. And I don't know if he's looking down at the floor, not even really looking at you, maybe just on the way to walking to his room and goes to his room, closes the door. You're kind of left, I don't know, in the kitchen. And then what happens for you?

Because now the event with Jack is over, and I know as a parent too. Now the story begins that I start to tell myself. Let me in on your internal world after that interaction. Yeah. So then I'm automatically thinking, should I go after him? Should I go upstairs? Should I make him talk to me more? By pushing him, am I going to push him even further away? Yeah.

You know, should I talk to his friend's parents? Should I ask them, is your son like this? It's a constant, like, feed in my head about...

what I should do or not do, give him space, don't give him space. We have a general rule in our house about not being on devices in your room by yourself. So he is allowed to go to the attic and play video games with his friends, but there's no door up there, so we can hear and whatnot. So he doesn't go to his room and close his door. One, I think because he wouldn't choose to do that

Because it doesn't seem like something he would want to do to me, but he's just not, it's not a thing we allow. So he doesn't do that. And so let me jump in for a sec, Jennifer. How long will those thoughts last for you? Like, so he's, let's say, walked away. Is this like 30 seconds, like 30 minutes? You know, how long is it so loud? Like, oh, is he okay? Should I go after him? And should I talk to his friends, parents? Is this going on for other kids? And is he depressed? And is he not? Like, tell me about how long do you think that will occupy your thoughts?

Yeah. Because I'm usually in the middle of trying to work and manage my younger child, I would say it probably goes on for a few minutes and then is replaced with the next thing I have to do, but then it comes back. So actually, the first thing I want to do with you is...

is kind of develop a relationship with that voice, that part of you. Because that part is useful for sure. And I think she's like an alarm bell, right? That's like, hey, is there a problem here, right? And we don't have any distinct confirmation that there's a problem, but you can't disprove a negative, right? You also are like, well, I don't know for sure that there's not a problem, right? Which can keep us up for ages and ages. I've had those times too. I think we have to make sure that part of you

gets heard, and has a boundary. Because I actually think, and I'm going to call her she for now, just to give you a little space too, to see even in this language that

she's not all of you. She's a part of you. She's loud. She's first to the job. You know, she's the first one who says something when Jack walks away, but she's really not all of you. And I think starting to think about this part as a part is actually going to be really key to even figuring out what's going on with Jack. How can I still connect with him? What does he need from me separate from my fears? I'm going to actually go on a limb here. Can we call her something? What's a good name?

I don't know. Daisy. Great. Love it. That's Daisy. And Daisy, to be clear, is not doing anything wrong. She's just a little, she's a little hyperactive. Like, you know, she gets a lot of airtime. She's kind of like bolstered her ego around that. And she's trying to help. She is. Just like when our kids were young and they were really, I don't know, nervous about, you

joining a birthday party where we internally know there's no real danger, but that part of them is leading with them. Like, oh, what if this happens and this happens? And, you know, they get a little hyperactive. And I actually think this is really powerful in and of itself. Just to say...

That's Daisy. And for you to know, Daisy is first on the job at 4 p.m. or whenever Jack comes home. And Daisy is worried that Jack is struggling. That's okay. That's useful to you. And Daisy can often go from worry as useful to a little bit over eager and probably taking up a little too much space. Tell me what that sounds like as a framework.

Yeah, that sounds fair. Great. So that's actually the first thing I want you to do is I want you to start recognizing when kind of Daisy's the one talking. And I think there's a spiral to it.

There's a little bit of doomsday to it. There's like, what should I do? And I need to do something about this. And that's the first step. And I want you to actually visualize, really, like Daisy is like a passenger in your car. That's the way I'd say it. But you, Jennifer, are the driver. And I think that's really important because when Daisy becomes the driver of your car, my guess is she doesn't make the best decisions for you. And also, I'm going to guess that Jack can feel her.

and finds her a little maybe overbearing or like not soothing, right? Finds her like a little activating even to him. Is that, do you think that's fair?

Yeah, it's entirely possible. Yes. So let's just say that that's kind of Daisy. Tell me some non-Daisy thoughts. What else, and doesn't mean these are as compelling to you, and they certainly don't catch fire in the same way, but what are the other thoughts that come up for you about this stuff with Jack? Because I know you said he's engaging with his friends. I know you told me earlier, it seems like he's still playing soccer. It seems like his developmental...

kind of roles of like being an 11-year-old, going to school, doing his work, staying in sports, if that was important to him, seeing friends. Like, it sounds like those still are, you know, not areas of concern, that he's still kind of keeping those up. Is that accurate? For the most part, yes. He would say is not doing swimmingly well in school. And we are not people who hyper-focus on grades.

If he does well enough, that's fine with us. I would say his effort with school has fallen off. It's the beginning of a new... The first year in middle school, and so...

We are giving him time to adjust and it's a new school. There's new teachers, more teachers, like more kids, like all new variables. So I haven't really focused as much on that. Developmentally, he's doing fine. He has tons of friends. That's not an issue. He does very well in sports. So yeah,

Okay, that's good information. What else could this be? I'm not saying there's not a huge problem. Because we're getting to know each other. That's not my way of saying there is. This Daisy, she's convinced. So she's already got that interpretation covered, worrying about that. So what else could this be? I guess that's what I want to explore with you. I don't know. I really don't. I think this could be anything from completely normal. And he is just...

Not just because he's a wonderful child, but he is an introvert at heart. And the personality traits that he's always sort of had are more amplified during this age. Yeah. So let's just pause there because that's useful just to say, okay, this could be that Jack's always been an introverted kid. He's going through this major life transition. That first year of middle school,

There's so much that really changes. Their workload changes. Their separation from families change. The school's relationship with parents often change too, right? There's a lot more separation and kids kind of get the message like you're really growing up. And kids then actually have to figure out how to grow up. And they kind of know inherently that a lot of growing up means forming your own identity.

taking more space. And something I want to share with you that I think is powerful visually is as kids try to figure out their own identity, they often do overcorrect because they start out in life being close to their parents, even if they're not talkers, they're kind of close inhabitants of our home. And if they kind of know their job is to figure out their own identity,

Well, just like many of us did when we were teens, the quickest and easiest way to do that is taking extra space. Because at least if you have extra space from your parents, you know, I really know my own person. And then I think as our kids grow up, they do start to inch closer. They probably never get as close as they were.

which is developmentally appropriate, but they often don't stay at the place they go to when they're tweens and teens. And if I think about that visual, and I think about a part of you that might see it in a different way, that part might say, Jack is trying to figure out his early tween teen years.

And he's taking more space from me. And he's taking more distance as he's trying to figure this out. This isn't his final resting place. This is kind of this place we're at in his journey into adolescence. So that, I think, is a useful narrative. Not because it's more right, but it is different than a kind of panic and fear of what might be going on.

The other thing I want to say, and I'm curious if this is going on, Jennifer, is I think what's not talked about enough as our kids get older is, yes, it's developmentally appropriate for them to talk to us less, to not want to spend as much time with us. Totally developmentally appropriate.

I think it's also developmentally appropriate that parents have a lot of feelings about that. Like we have a lot of feelings about that. Loss, sadness, worry. And it seems like that's a big part of what's going on for you. Yeah. Tell me what's coming up as I say that for you. Again, our feelings, our tears are just such good information.

about what's happening in our body. Yes, I think you're definitely right. That is definitely happening. I guess the thing for me is that I can accept that or I'm getting to the place where I can accept that. I think my fear is that because he is my first and because at least in my circles,

I do not have a lot of moms talking about boys' feelings or lack of expression of feelings. My worry, slash Daisy, is that what if this quiet is pathologic? What if this is his depression? What if his quiet isn't normal and he doesn't have the...

emotional wherewithal to know or to be able to express that. And I think we're in an age where there's just so much information, so many stories, and so much everything that... I was talking to a friend about this the other day, and you read these stories, and all of a sudden, this kid does something, and the parents are like, we had no idea. At the end of the day, do I think that's going to happen? Probably not. But because he...

And I've talked to him. Do you want to talk with someone? Do you want to talk with someone besides us? Do you want to talk to a therapist? He looks at me like I'm crazy. Like, what would I talk to that person about? I think the idea is horrifying to him because he's private anyway. And so why would I talk to someone else about this when I don't even really want to talk to you about this stuff? And look, I get that concern. And yes, all...

of the data out there and stuff in the media, it is scary. It makes sense that you'd be worried about that. And I think this is the dance of being a parent of a tween or her teen, where if I'm really worried about a certain outcome, how can I almost parallel path things? On one level, can I say, okay, what am I looking out for? What signs are there? What would make me concerned? On the other hand,

I think sometimes our fears can even color what we see and get in our way of actually connecting with our kid in the limited ways they still allow us to connect with them. And so I feel protective of you of not kind of letting that happen. And I think there's some concrete things we can do around this. Let's be real. Traveling with kids is a trip, not a vacation.

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So, number one, as a psychologist, if I was hearing that he had much lower interest in doing a whole host of things, that would be something I wouldn't say, oh my goodness, get him in my office today. But I would say, okay, that's interesting. Okay, like, you know, let's poke around there, right? Okay, this is a kid who used to

perform at the top of their class and study all the time, and now they don't care. Oh, that's a big change. This is a kid who used to love playing with their friends and now doesn't want to. This is a kid who used to practice and go to soccer, and now they don't want to be on the team anymore. That big shift would be notable to me. And that is something I think, especially that hypervigilant part of you, that daisy part of you, I'd be like, okay, that's something to look out for. Are there big changes?

If I also see that kind of the developmental tasks of the age he's in across the board are not ones he wants to participate in. So sixth grade.

is a time when kids are kind of shifting social groups and they kind of are interested in friends. Okay, it doesn't seem like that's a big thing. Sixth grade is a time when kids are figuring out their study habits. Most sixth graders are not mastering study habits and independence. But again, is he in that mess? The other thing I would say about sixth grade is

and middle school is it is a time when kids are very much trying to figure out their relationship with their parents. And across the board, it actually sounds to me from what you're sharing that Jack is kind of crushing the sixth grade year. Like he's actually doing all of that. And that is not to invalidate

The way you feel and your worries, all of this is true. But I want you to hear that from me because at least it might strengthen a second narrative so that that first one doesn't seem so convincing.

I also think you can put a little of a timeline to this. I know when I'm in a period of feeling like an anxiety-fear narrative, it's kind of taken over me. It's helpful to put a timeline. So I might say, make this up. On May 15th, I'm going to really make some decisions about this. On May 15th.

I'm going to really say, you know what? I do want to see a therapist together. Let's talk some things out. It's not really a choice. You're not in trouble, but I'm not going to ask you. Let's go through this together. I could always do that on May 15th. On May 15th, I'm going to have an even more in-depth conversation with the dean at school or maybe I do that on April 1st. I like to put dates because then when I'm worried, I think part of what happens when we're worried and I can see it in you, Jennifer, you care so much.

We worry we're not doing enough. Like, am I missing something? Am I not doing something I should be doing? And so when you remind that part of you, hey, I already have these dates. Like, I've already calendared them in. Like, it convinces yourself that you're not missing something. And then the other thing I'd say is I'd love to come up with some ways where we think about how you and Jack can connect or you can feel connected to him better.

that, you're right, are not going to look like processing the difficult moment he had at school. And he just might not be the kid, ever or right now, who's the run into your room and says, Mom, I have to tell you about this thing. There are some kids who do that. He might not be that kid. And I want you to know that still does not tell me that he's really struggling or that you're not doing a good job. It really doesn't.

I think it speaks to his temperament, the way he processes things, and also the way he handles things today might not be how he handles things in four years. So talk to me about video games because it seems like that's come up. He's interested in it. Is that something that you ever play with him? Is that something he'll talk about? Tell me more about that world because he seems to be interested in that. Yeah.

He asked me once to play with him a couple of months ago. And now I look back and I think that was a mistake. I said like, "Oh, I will." And then I didn't that day.

And now since I've asked him to play and he'll say like, oh yeah, later. And he kind of, so I feel like I lost my moment, but we could potentially get it back. What is it that he plays? He plays Fortnite. All the sixth grade boys play Fortnite. Totally. This is no judgment zone. I know it's a huge, huge, huge part of sixth grade boy life. What would it be like if he found you in the attic playing? By myself? Like on your own. Yeah, you figured out how to get your own login. Don't mess up his score. I'm not saying that. But...

What do you think? I don't know why I'm picturing. You mentioned you have a husband. I don't know why I'm picturing Jack coming in and you're not being there. And probably something comes up. We're going to have dinner. Oh, we can't have dinner yet. Like mom's upstairs in the attic. And I don't know. I feel like he'd be like, what? And he'd be like, oh, yeah. Like he'd have to play it really cool. Like, yeah, she's playing Fortnite. Like she's going to need a couple more minutes. What would he do? I think he would think that was hilarious. Yeah.

And he'd probably show me how to play. What do you think he'd come find you? He'd be like, oh my God, I got to see this. Or he'd probably come upstairs. Oh yes, definitely. And he'd be like, mom, you're so horrible. Like, I got to show you this thing. Yes, yes, yes.

I mean, to your point, one time recently when I was trying to think of what to talk with him in the car about that wouldn't be so confrontational. Totally, too egregious, too shutting him down. Yeah, exactly, exactly. I thought, like, let me ask him what's new in Fortnite. Like, what are the new things? Like, what's happening? Who's playing the best these days? Who's at the top ranks, whatnot? He talked for, like, 20 minutes, nonstop. Okay, so this, to me...

It is it. This is it. This is a part of his world. And I love that you're already so intuitive to know, like, yeah, I can't ask him, like, tell me about all the feelings you're having. Tell me how you're, you know, like, he'd be like, yeah, mom, this is like so not, that's not the world I live in. But he does live in a world that has things that he will share with you.

First of all, just connecting about the Fortnite world. And I do think like you should probably be reading blogs about Fortnite. I happen to know that a new level is coming. So like you should be up to date.

And like, that is probably when he comes home, like, I heard there's this new level coming or, you know, I probably just said to you, Jennifer, the extent of my Fortnite knowledge, but I'm guessing if you looked on some blogs and read the things, like, you probably would have questions that he'd be like, I can't believe my mom's asking me that question because that is his language. I want you to think about it that way. That's his language. So when you continue to speak to him in English and he is now kind of speaking Fortnite, that

He can't say much back to you in English. He says, yeah, my day's good. Okay. But he's not that interested in English. It's not really the language he's as much in. But he is amazingly very willing to engage with you. And I think there's two things. Number one, just engaging about Fortnite is a form of connection. And it lets him know, my mom understands me. My mom is interested in me. My mom is seeing me kind of do my own thing. And she wants to flex.

And me either. He's never going to say that, let me be clear. He will not gratify that. But I promise you, he feels that. The second thing I know with my older son is if I start talking to him about something he's really interested in. And this isn't always true. And I won't always try for it because I can't ruin it. One out of every however many times, if after five to 10 minutes of connecting about that topic, I kind of extend it.

By the way, I heard you mentioning something about your math test or something different. By the way, how are things going with Tyler? I know you haven't, I haven't really seen him around the house as much anymore. Like, it's amazing how he'll actually answer that question. But if I started with that question, forget it. Now, I don't think every time we start about the topic our kids want to talk about, we should extend it. They'll start to pick up on it. But I have a feeling if you start leaning into this,

you're going to start to get very different data to your body. Because I think the data that you generally collect, that Daisy kind of collects, is he's uninterested, he's distant, he doesn't say anything, he's a different kid, he's very withdrawn. And then it's like, look, all the data supports he's in a horrible place. But I think your body will start to collect data just from experiencing with him the things that he is excited about.

And I think that will be really helpful as you try to manage this combination of noticing and fear.

I think that's your way in. And I wouldn't make it much more complicated than that. I think we can only take one step at a time. I think it's a huge step. Those are the things I'd ask him about. I would do your diligence. I really would. I'd be reading those blogs. It would be probably pretty funny if he saw you on your own Instagram. He's like, wow, you follow this Fortnite person? And you're like, you know what? It's interesting. It's a whole world.

And then I bet if you played and you could do the playing we kind of went through, because I think it would be kind of such a shock to his system, right? And that's always kind of fun. But I bet also if you said to him, look,

You play a lot of Fortnite, and that seems to be exciting. Can you teach me how to play? Maybe even more than playing together, which to a tween boy can feel like, oh, it's annoying. Can you teach me? I tried to play around with it the other day. I didn't even know which button meant which. Can we do that? And my guess is for those five minutes, he'd be excited teaching you. You would be like, oh, I have a little bit of my kid here.

And it's not the same as him running and saying, mom, can I talk to you about X, Y, Z? But I think that you'll start to feel like the feeling can actually be similar because you just feel like the two of you are spending time in the same world again. Right. No, that makes complete sense. I can do that. I think you can. And I will want to know how it goes. And so I think that's like a really good couple steps forward.

I would definitely watch out for Daisy and start to predict when she's going to come up because then it becomes a little humorous, right? So let's say he does come home at four. It's 3.30. I'd set an alarm if it was me on my phone and just get ready. She's going to come. And then when you're like, oh, is he okay? And he just went to his room, you'd be like, oh my goodness. Like it becomes a little lighter just because you've developed a relationship with it. And I think that part's also really going to help. Thank you so much.

Thank you. Thank you. And really, I want you to know you are so not alone in this. You are really not alone. And thank you. I mean, that's for helping so many parents know that they're not alone by your willingness to be so open. Thank you to our podcast sponsors, Airbnb and Geranimals.

Thank you for listening. To share a story or ask me a question, go to goodinside.com slash podcast. Or you could write me at podcast at goodinside.com. Parenting is the hardest and most important job in the world. And you deserve resources and support so you feel empowered and confident for this very important job you hold.

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Good Inside with Dr. Becky is produced by Jesse Baker and Eric Newsom at Magnificent Noise. Our production staff includes Sabrina Farhi, Julia Knapp, and Kristen Muller. I would also like to thank Erica Belsky, Mary Panico, Brooke Zant, and the rest of the Good Inside team. And one last thing before I let you go. Let's end by placing our hands on our hearts and reminding ourselves, even as I struggle,

And even as I have a hard time on the outside, I remain good inside.