We Choose…To Talk About What Almost Broke Us
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Hi, this is Jenny Garth from the I Choose Me podcast. If you're managing a challenging mental condition, weekly therapy can sometimes feel like it's not enough. You may be looking for a way to spend more focus time on you. That's where Amend Mental Health Treatment Center comes in. I recently took a tour at Amend in beautiful Malibu, California, and the facility is so gorgeous and serene.

The dedicated team of doctors and therapists with deep clinical expertise were amazing. Designed to give you the time and space you need to have that breakthrough. They have two unique locations in Malibu that surround you in natural beauty and pure calm. Find out more at amendtreatment.com slash start. Did you know Tide has been upgraded to provide an even better clean in cold water?

Tide is specifically designed to fight any stain you throw at it, even in cold. Butter? Yep. Chocolate ice cream? Sure thing. Barbecue sauce? Tide's got you covered. You don't need to use warm water. Additionally, Tide Pods let you confidently fight tough stains with new Coldzyme technology. Just remember, if

If it's got to be clean, it's got to be tied. This election season, the stakes are higher than ever. I think the choice is clear in this election. Join me, Charlemagne Tha God, for We The People, an audio town hall with Vice President Kamala Harris and you, live from Detroit, Michigan, exclusively on iHeartRadio. They'll tackle the tough questions, depressing issues, and the future of our nation. We may not see eye to eye on every issue, but America, we are not going back.

Don't miss this powerful conversation with Vice President Kamala Harris. Tomorrow at 5 p.m. Eastern, 2 p.m. Pacific on the free iHeartRadio app's Hip Hop Beat Station. Hey, friends. I'm Jessica Capshaw. And this is Kamala Luddington. And we have a new podcast. Call it what it is.

You may know us from Graceland Memorial, but did you know that we are actually besties in real life? And as all besties do, we navigate the highs and lows of life together. Big or small, we're there. And now here we are, opening up the friendship circle to you. Listen to Call It What It Is on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm NK, and this is Basket Case. What is wrong with me? A show about the ways that mental illness is shaped by not just biology... Swaps of different meds. ...but by culture and society. By looking closely at the conditions that cause mental distress, I find out why so many of us are struggling to feel sane...

what we can do about it, and why we should care. Listen to Basket Case every Tuesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Garth. Hi, everyone. Welcome to I Choose Me. This podcast is all about the choices we make and where they lead us. So today, I wanted to talk about something that was...

a big choice my husband and I made that I know a lot of couples have gone through. And for a lot of people, not everyone, but for a lot of people, starting a family is important to them. I am blessed to be the mother of three. And when Dave and I got together, Dave didn't have any children. Today, we're going to talk about our journey with IVF.

Please welcome my hubby, Dave, back to the I Choose Me podcast. Hi, honey. Hey, babe. Nice to see you on the podcast. Yeah, you saw me in the kitchen a minute ago. Mm-hmm. And the bedroom. This is a pretty vulnerable topic, and I really appreciate you being open to talking about it because I think...

It could help some people. Yeah, it's definitely been in the news and people are talking about it more and people are open and discussing it. Why don't we start at the beginning? We've talked about our love story on the podcast before. If you guys haven't listened to that, go back and listen to that one so you're up to speed. It's a fun one. It's a good one, yeah. When we met, how old were the girls at this point? Fiona was eight.

Lola was just turning 12 and Luca was 16, 17. I think she had just turned 17. She was going into her senior year of high school. You entered into a relationship and automatically had three stepdaughters. Yes. But no babies of your own. No. No children. What were your thoughts on kids when we met? Were you thinking...

No, I'm not. I hear people say, well, I want to be a great father and I want to be this and I've got to have this family and I want to do that. I never really thought of anything. I kind of just went day by day and I never thought like, did I think about children? Yeah. Did I want to have kids? Of course. Yeah. I was like, yeah, that'd be great. But it never defined me. I never was pushed around.

by, you know, I've got to have children of my own. I know that's a big deal to a lot of men. I just, to be honest, I was just, I just didn't think about it. I always said to myself, if it happened, wonderful.

And if it didn't, then, you know, it didn't. But something great came out of that, you know, with the girls and stuff. And it's not like we didn't try. I mean, we're talking about this whole episode because we, I mean, we gave it a good shot. What point in our relationship did we start talking about maybe wanting to have kids together? Well, if you remember, we got married on July 11th.

What was it, July 12th? 2015. And then we got pregnant like the same month. So we got naturally, we got pregnant naturally. Yeah. We got back from Carmel. We went to a little mini like honeymoon to Carmel up in, you know, Monterey. And like two weeks later, you were pregnant. Yeah.

I mean, I've completely blocked this out. You gave me, you remember how you told me? I do remember telling you, but I didn't remember. It was like so quickly after we got married. Yeah. And you gave me a gift. Like you were like, here, here's a box. And I opened up the box. It was like a random Tuesday afternoon. And I opened up the box and it was this little like onesie with like golf carts and golf things on it.

And yeah, and that's how you told me. I remember Liz, your assistant at the time, you know, it was just me, you and her. And it was, then that was like, wow, okay. Were you like excited? Were you? Yeah. Yeah, I was excited. I mean, I was in shock. I was like, what? What?

So quick. I mean, our relationship in general was so fast track in every sense of the word. Yeah. And to have that, you know, on top of it, you're just kind of taking it back going, all right, well, yeah. I mean, that didn't turn out the way we had hoped. So what walk me through and our listeners, like what happened with that pregnancy? Because for the life of me, I...

Don't remember. I blocked it out. For the listeners, it's like, I'm having this conversation. Like, she's fully new to this conversation. She doesn't... Okay, so what happened, you mean, after you told me? Well, we went to Nancy, your doctor, the gynecologist. And yeah, we were good to go. And then that lasted...

Almost four months, you know, we found out. What do you mean? Well, I don't want to get emotional in the first 15 minutes of a podcast. It's okay, you're with me. Yeah, we found out that there was no heartbeat. Did we find that out in the office? Do you remember what went through your mind then? I don't know. I mean, geez, I haven't really talked about it. You know, I think it was, yeah, I was upset.

Did you feel upset with me? No, no. Are you talking about like resentment? No, I wasn't like upset. I was just down. So we had to have a procedure. The DNC. DNC, which... We became familiar with, or at least I did, you know, because I had never...

known anyone in that situation or gone through that situation. I think I remember them saying like, we could just wait and let it work its way. Let nature take its course or we could do the procedure. And we opted to do the procedure because it was just too much for me to, you know, carry a baby that had been terminated. Yeah, it was totally heavy. Mm-hmm.

And then... We had it done that day? We had it done that day. It's like, it's wild. It's like, you know, in and out. But it's, yeah, it's really heavy. And so then after that, you know, because it was totally unexpected. And it was like, well, maybe, I mean, I guess I'm, you know, speaking for myself. Please do. You know, maybe that wasn't in the plan. And so... So you sort of reconciled with yourself. Well, it's not on the cards. Yeah. Yeah.

But then it happened again. Naturally? Yes. Oh my God. Why don't I remember things? I think, yeah, I think you, I don't know. I mean, it's a good one to block out, I guess. So what happened? And then? So that one was shorter. I remember we had to switch doctors and this one was only...

You know, you found out you got pregnant and then this was only like a month and a half. And then we went and we, you know how they, you can kind of see it, you know, starting to come around. And then this one was short. I mean, I think the doctor, I forget his name. I think if the doctor at the time was like, well, it's, it's not going to be healthy anyway. So then we, you know, we did, we did the, the DNC again and,

And then by that time, I think that it had definitely taken an emotional toll, which we didn't know how to communicate at the time. So we kind of just wrapped it up and then other things kind of came in the fold. And then I think our relationship is starting to get a little, you know, just chaotic and not having the tools equipped to work through it. And we were going to therapy, but we were...

Not necessarily doing the wrong therapy. We weren't attacking the root of the issue. We weren't talking about that. Right. And the deep sadness and grief that both of us were feeling simultaneously, but we weren't talking to each other about it. I feel like I remember a little bit of just really going inside and

and struggling personally and privately on my own. And I felt and sort of saw that you were doing the same thing. I mean, I said stuff to people like, oh, hey, man, it just didn't take. And people were like, oh, all right, well, you'll get it next time. It was very like, I just didn't know how, it was so nonchalant. I was thinking to myself, am I being selfish?

too emotional about this? You know, like once, twice, like, am I, is it just like no big deal? I don't know. I had to like figure that out. I had to work through that. I mean, it wasn't, and it wasn't, I'm not making like, you know, my friends and family, you know, like very, you know, dismissive. It was just, you know, I don't think

I don't think I knew how to handle it, much less I don't really think I had a lot of people to converse with in it. So we were both dealing with that grief internally, but not sharing with each other, which I think was a big problem. We'll get into that a little bit later. But I think at that time, I was feeling really down on myself, really ashamed of

like I was disappointing you, like I wasn't able to carry a pregnancy with you, who I loved. And I had had these three beautiful daughters with Peter, and you had stepped in and become such a wonderful stepdad to them. And you have a great dad, and you have a great relationship with your dad, and you are so

so fun and just like love sports. And I, so I remember I so, so, so wanted to give you a baby boy. Yeah. And so I think I was really, I was, you went down, um, sort of a different, you know, road or, you know, with like dealing with it. You, I think were hard on yourself and you thought, um,

little insecurities crept in that you weren't good enough. And that because I was younger, I needed to fill that so-called void in my life. And I tried to communicate a little bit like,

You know, it's not a big deal. I mean, I didn't marry you because I wanted to have children. This wasn't even something to be expected. But since it happened, you know, I mean, you being the mother you are and the person you are and the human you are, of course, I naturally wanted to have a child with you. Would have been great. But I don't necessarily...

look back and think that stuff. I truly do feel like everything happens for a reason. And I'm so happy now. We're so happy now. We're in the best place. We've come through this journey. And yeah.

Hi, this is Jenny Garth from the I Choose Me podcast. If you're managing a challenging mental condition, weekly therapy can sometimes feel like it's not enough. You may be looking for a way to spend more focus time on you. That's where Amend Mental Health Treatment Center comes in. I recently took a tour at Amend in beautiful Malibu, California, and the facility is so gorgeous and serene.

The dedicated team of doctors and therapists with deep clinical expertise were amazing. Designed to give you the time and space you need to have that breakthrough. They have two unique locations in Malibu that surround you in natural beauty and pure calm. Find out more at amendtreatment.com slash start. Did you know Tide has been upgraded to provide an even better clean in cold water?

Tide is specifically designed to fight any stain you throw at it, even in cold. Butter? Yep. Chocolate ice cream? Sure thing. Barbecue sauce? Tide's got you covered. You don't need to use warm water. Additionally, Tide Pods let you confidently fight tough stains with new Coldzyme technology. Just remember, if

If it's got to be clean, it's got to be tied. This election season, the stakes are higher than ever. I think the choice is clear in this election. Join me, Charlemagne Tha God, for We The People, an audio town hall with Vice President Kamala Harris and you, live from Detroit, Michigan, exclusively on iHeartRadio. They'll tackle the tough questions, depressing issues, and the future of our nation. We may not see eye to eye on every issue, but America, we are not going back.

Don't miss this powerful conversation with Vice President Kamala Harris. Tomorrow at 5 p.m. Eastern, 2 p.m. Pacific on the free iHeartRadio app's Hip Hop Beat Station. Hey, it's Mike and Ian. We're the hosts of How to Do Everything from NPR's Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me. Each week we take your questions and find someone much smarter than us to answer them. Questions like, how do you survive the Bermuda Triangle? How do you find a date inside the Bermuda Triangle? We can't help you.

But we will find someone who can. Listen to the How to Do Everything podcast on iHeartRadio. Hey, friends. I'm Jessica Capshaw. And this is Camilla Luddington. And we have a new podcast. Call it what it is. You may know us from Graceland Memorial, but...

Did you know that we are actually besties in real life? And as all besties do, we navigate the highs and lows of life together. And what does that look like? A thousand pep talks. A million I've got yous. Some very urgent I'm coming overs. Because, I don't know, let's face it, life can get even crazier than a season finale of Grey's Anatomy. And now here we are, opening up the friendship circle. To you. Someone's cheating? We've got you on that. In-laws are in-lying? Let's get into it.

Toxic friendship? Air it out. We're on your side to help you with your concerns. Talk about ours. And every once in a while, bring on an awesome guest to get their take on the things that you bring us. While we may be unlicensed to advise, we're going to do it anyway. Listen to Call It What It Is on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I want to go back to that time and I was silently suffering. Also, there was a lot of hormones that I didn't know what were going on that were just exploding inside of you. Yeah, like with those two consecutive pregnancies and then those two consecutive situations, I think that neither of us acknowledged that.

the hormones at play and that just that my mental and physical was not the norm. And I got, I would be much quicker to be upset. I was, I think I was more apt to be insecure, like you said, which turned into that jealousy controlling feeling for you probably. Yeah. And I was trying to burn the house down because I,

I didn't feel like I deserved this or it was all my fault. Yeah. And also I didn't help the situation because I was like, Mr. Nothing, everything's fine. Like we can move forward. Like, don't worry about it. At the time, instead of like really delving into it and actually having a conversation about her, actually like, you know, we, we need to really kind of get ahold of this.

Do you wish you had handled it differently? Yeah, of course. How would you have handled it differently? I would have... I was... I think at the time I was more wrapped up into me, you know? Even though I was a partner and I was doing everything that I was supposed to be doing. I was, you know, doing the girls, going and whatever they needed, whatever you needed. But I was internalizing everything like...

kind of selfishly like in myself, like, well, what am I going to get? Like, what is the end going to be for me? And like, I don't really, I didn't, at the time, I didn't know how to handle what you were going through. I just, I couldn't. And my biggest flaw is fight or flight. And so I would just remove myself because I couldn't handle it. When did we decide that?

To go down the IVF road, it must have been right after that because I was like, I want to go and find out what's going on with my eggs. Like I wanted to know if my eggs were in fact the problem or if there was an alternative for us. So I think that that is when we went into the fertility center. Yeah. I'm not sure on the actual date. I think it was a year before. It might have been. It was a year before we like broke up, I think. Yeah, we'll get to that. Yeah.

There's also something I need to remind you of it probably later on in this that you've probably forgotten about when we were broken up as well. Great. I can't wait to hear it. Um, so stay tuned for that guys. Uh, geez, the IVF for, for, for people that have, aren't familiar with IVF, um,

There's a lot to it. You have to find the right doctor, fertility doctor. There's a lot of blood testing. We had a really good one. She was great. A lot of pokes and prods. Shots. Shots. There was the painful retrieving of the eggs, which doesn't sound...

in theory, but it was very unpleasant. Mm-hmm. It's tough. The grading. And then hearing the... The grading of the eggs. And hearing the disappointing news that they have a grading system with eggs. And I was, I mean, at that time, I was in my mid-40s. You were 40, 45, 46? Yeah, in my mid-40s. And...

I found out that, yeah, it was me. It was my eggs. They were not good enough. But that's not true. You had good eggs. What was the scale that they... I think we had a C. It was A if you have A egg, B egg, C egg, and so on. And so we tried...

We retrieved some eggs and they looked at them and they said, well, here are your options. You have, you know, maybe a B minus egg and some C eggs. Do you want to proceed? Right. And I was determined. Yeah, we did. And then that's when I remember, I just remember continuing that feeling of shame and sadness because that confirmation that,

My eggs weren't good enough anymore, weren't young enough or able to have a viable pregnancy. So then you did the sperm count test. Once we decided to move forward, they needed to check your sperm count. Yeah. Do you want to tell them about that? This was just, this was the sperm count. So...

Well, I always make, I know what you're getting at because I always make a joke about it because I had like two, two something out of two something. I had a great score. Wait, no, a little more detail, please. You're supposed to have what's the score? 267 out of 267. I was 267 out of 267. So yeah. So you're supposed to have like the high score is 267 or something. Yeah. High score. Hey.

I'm sorry. And then you proceeded to joke around about it. I did. To? Yeah, to probably quell my anxiety. But I mean, yeah, I felt great about that score. But yeah, like when we're talking about it, when you're going down it, I haven't actually like visually in my head. I'm very visual. So I have little scenes in my head that are playing out as you're talking. And I can remember...

Like the waiting room, the, you know, inside the office, when the restroom, when I went to get water, when just feelings of like panic and anxiety. And like, I remember after this IVF, it didn't take. And we went down that road. I remember the restroom and I remember the fake flower as I was sitting on the toilet, not using the restroom, just sitting on the toilet.

and taking that flower and ripping it and throwing it in the trash. It's so weird. Because, you know, I mean, it's a heavy subject for everybody. And my heart goes out to people who, you know, are really trying and going through the process because we've been through the process, but we only went through it once. We elected not to try again because it was just, it was really heavy emotionally.

after you had been through all the miscarriages. And we have friends that have successfully done it. And it's, you know, my heart goes out to them even on, you know, successfully having kids and stuff because it's a lot. I do remember when you were joking around about like, you have this perfect sperm count. And here I am sitting over here with the imperfect, you know, expired eggs. Yeah. Yeah.

Not that I'm angry at you about it now, but as we're talking about it, I can understand my feelings about it and how that even sent me and us into a darker, darker place. 100%. Me thinking something so light and trying to make light of it to, in my eyes, help the situation, actually hurt the situation. I don't remember the implantation process because we proceeded. We got your perfect sperm.

And we put it, met up with my imperfect eggs and just prayed and hoped that it would work. But did it stick? It stuck. I remember one stuck. Yeah, one stuck, but then...

We did. Oh, yeah, it did. And then we went through the process. We went to the next step. Well, first we had to do all the shots. First, they send you home with your marching orders. God, I'm marching out everything. Yeah. So we got, they did the, they had to prepare me, I think, before...

The implant of the sperm. And that was, you know, shots, daily shots, I think. Daily shots, yeah, that we had to do. And even you had to do it when you were traveling still. You were working and traveling a lot still. So you had to do it on the road and stuff like that. I don't really remember you being a part of the shots. A couple times, yeah. Yeah, maybe like two times out of a lot. And I remember being upset by that.

But never communicating it to you. No. I remember thinking, I don't think he understands what is happening to my body. Yeah, I didn't. I think that that's a good lesson for everybody who is taking it from us, not communicating. And I think that that was terrible that we didn't communicate that stuff. I had no idea about that. And I do remember sometimes I did it for you.

I mean, it was, I think just from a male perspective, it's obviously a lot less invasive for a man to go through all this. But what was it like seeing me put my body through that? And like, I guess you just said you didn't really understand what was going on with me physically and emotionally. How did you manage that or not manage that? And is there anything that you wish you had done differently so that maybe you can help other guys out there?

And I'm not, I don't mean to be pointing the finger at you or blaming you or attacking you in any way. No, no, no, I'm trying to think of the experience because it's not a great experience if I'm speaking, you know, for me personally, it wasn't a great experience. I'm talking about just emotionally.

I'm talking about like disappointment and then seeing you go through what you had to do, the process. Seeing the process and then going through the process and then ultimately failing at the process. But my takeaway wasn't towards you. I wasn't upset at you. I was upset at the process because I just didn't want to be a part of that process anymore.

My whole thing was if we can't do it, it's just not in the cards for us. And maybe that's, yeah, I just, I couldn't go ever. Once we left there, once the IVF, once it was done, I, you know, I never wanted to go back.

Yeah, we got to the place. I think that was after all the prep work that we had to go through with priming my body and getting my hormones to the right levels with the shots. And then the DNC, seeing you go through the DNC, I said, I'd never do that again. I'm never going to make you do that again. We had already done it. Four times? Well, three. Three times. We haven't gotten to the fourth. We decided that IVF wasn't for us. We had already spent a lot of money. Yeah. And the aftermath...

of that experience. Threw me into a tailspin personally. After that experience, the life that I was in with you at the time was just too overwhelming for me. You were a celebrity. I had three stepchildren. I think I was like, we were three and a half years into our relationship. I'd started my own business. It was going, it was going well. I was going to go do another one. And

I couldn't handle the severity of everything mentally happening. So I just chose to kind of get out of the situation, which is not healthy. And then I feel like with the hormones that were going on with you, you weren't the same. You were being influenced by stuff you couldn't control, essentially, I felt like. And I just couldn't be there to help you.

I wasn't mature enough. Hi, this is Jenny Garth from the I Choose Me podcast. If you're managing a challenging mental condition, weekly therapy can sometimes feel like it's not enough. You may be looking for a way to spend more focus time on you. That's where Amend Mental Health Treatment Center comes in. I recently took a tour at Amend in beautiful Malibu, California, and the facility is so gorgeous and serene.

The dedicated team of doctors and therapists with deep clinical expertise were amazing. Designed to give you the time and space you need to have that breakthrough. They have two unique locations in Malibu that surround you in natural beauty and pure calm. Find out more at amendtreatment.com slash start. Did you know Tide has been upgraded to provide an even better clean in cold water?

Tide is specifically designed to fight any stain you throw at it, even in cold. Butter? Yep. Chocolate ice cream? Sure thing. Barbecue sauce? Tide's got you covered. You don't need to use warm water. Additionally, Tide Pods let you confidently fight tough stains with new Coldzyme technology. Just remember...

If it's got to be clean, it's got to be tied. This election season, the stakes are higher than ever. I think the choice is clear in this election. Join me, Charlemagne Tha God, for We The People, an audio town hall with Vice President Kamala Harris and you, live from Detroit, Michigan, exclusively on iHeartRadio. They'll tackle the tough questions, depressing issues, and the future of our nation. We may not see eye to eye on every issue, but America, we are not going back.

Don't miss this powerful conversation with Vice President Kamala Harris. Tomorrow at 5 p.m. Eastern, 2 p.m. Pacific on the free iHeartRadio app's Hip Hop Beat Station. Hey, it's Mike and Ian. We're the hosts of How to Do Everything from NPR's Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me. Each week we take your questions and find someone much smarter than us to answer them. Questions like, how do you survive the Bermuda Triangle? How do you find a date inside the Bermuda Triangle? We can't help you.

but we will find someone who can. Listen to the How to Do Everything podcast on iHeartRadio. Do you ever wonder where your favorite foods come from? Like what's the history behind bacon-wrapped hot dogs? Hi, I'm Eva Longoria. Hi, I'm Maite Gomez-Rejon. Our podcast, Hungry for History, is back. Season two. Season two. Are we recording? Are we good? Oh, we push record, right? Okay.

And this season we're taking an even bigger bite out of the most delicious food and its history. Saying that the most popular cocktail is the margarita, followed by the mojito from Cuba and the piña colada from Puerto Rico. So all of these we have, we thank Latin culture. There's a mention of blood sausage in Homer's Odyssey that dates back to the 9th century B.C. B.C.? I didn't realize how old the hot dog was.

Listen to Hungry for History as part of the My Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So what do you mean you couldn't handle it? You decided that you needed to leave? You did that fight or flight thing? Yeah. I think it had gotten to the point where I just, I couldn't handle it anymore.

But there was also stuff going on with you that you didn't know how to articulate. Your actions were not your, definitely. I wasn't myself. I wasn't. Yeah, I would say, yeah. Behaving like probably the person that you had fallen in love with. Because I was grappling with so many emotions personally inside my head. Right. And then seeing you react the way you react and I think kept just pushing me further over the edge. Yeah.

It was not a good time. No. Do you think that the girls felt all of this or did they know about all of this? I think they were, I think Fiona was young. So Fiona was like 10 or 11 and she was very compassionate. Lola was 14, 15, teenager. Yeah.

really upset when she found out we were pregnant the first time when she was like 12. She said she was going to go move to her dad's. Now, I mean, you take all that with a grain of salt. They, you know, they have a brother now and they adore that little boy and he's so cute. But yeah, I don't know. They know. They didn't know what was going on. Like,

the severity of what was going on with the both of us. But, you know, we didn't even know what was going on. Yeah, it wasn't something we sat around at the dinner table and talked about. No, it's like this thing that just, it just sat there and you just went, well, you know, I'm grieving.

So is that going to go away? But I mean, at the time, I didn't know I was grieving. Right. We didn't even know that we needed to grieve properly or treat ourselves with a different kind of compassion. But it's so odd. What are you grieving? Something you didn't even know. It didn't even exist. I think we were grieving the loss of the idea of what we thought our future should look like. Right. And grieving. I was grieving on your behalf for...

you not becoming a dad. Fulfilling something that I had built up in my head for so long. So we were separated for a while. Like 10 months? Yeah. I remember just like being...

gobsmacked, quite honestly, that you left. And I remember I had just, you know, a few years prior to this gone through a divorce after in a relationship with somebody for 17 years. And I was so excited to be in a relationship with you and have a fresh start and a second, third chance. And I

I was pretty like destroyed. And you literally just were taillights and left me and the girls not to point a finger. I'm just telling you the facts. You left the girls and I to deal with it. And unfortunately in that time, I was just a mess. I think even more destroyed somehow than

Then when my relationship with Peter ended and the girls all handled it differently, they weren't happy with me. They were mad at me because I was so upset again, so heartbroken. And I remember Fiona wrote me a song about

on the piano to try to make me feel better. I have a recording of it on my phone and I listen to it sometimes. And then they would go. So you were still doing like one week off, one week on. And Peter lived around the corner from like the new restaurant bar that I had opened. And I would work during days and Lola would sneak, sneak out and come over there during the day and kind of see me. And yeah, it was hard.

And then Luca, when she would come back from New York, you know, I would see her and yeah, it was hard. And then, you know, they kind of got settled into, you know, we weren't going to be together. And then we started getting back together and we started to date again. And then we didn't talk about, you know, we had gotten back together in December of that year and you had gotten pregnant naturally again. Yeah.

And you don't remember that. And then that's when we had to go and do the final DNC, which was in January of that year, which was... And then that kind of set us back for a couple months until July is when we, you and I rented a house in Joshua Tree with like no internet, nothing. And we just went there with the dogs for four days and

cried laughed you know what do you think it was that brought us back together even what what was it that brought us back together before we had that last pregnancy what made you come want to come back i guess or decide that you had dealt with what you needed to deal with

enough in order to come back given that you knew that leaving the way you did probably you shouldn't do that again the way you did it you know what i mean like had you did you learn something about yourself or did you do work on yourself or did you i mean i think that that i think i've i've i think we we both came back together with a sense of what the work we need to do

to get to where we want to be. We both, I mean, we communicated what we need to have in this relationship to move forward. And you said, I'll do that. And I said, I'll do that. And so far, you know, we've kind of kept to it all the while opening communication up and not falling into those habits. I mean, for me, I mean, I don't like confrontation.

And if shit hits the fan, I just bail. Yeah, I think it's important to like... That's a problem. Look at your upbringing and... Yeah, I mean, I grew up in Virginia Beach, Virginia, and I didn't want to be around there anymore, so I left. But you also had as a child kind of an unpredictable energy in your home. And when things would get unpredictable, it would be scary and you would hide or leave. Yeah, I'd go to the beach. So that was...

I think a lot of the work that you had to start with on the ground level is looking where that fight or flight for you came from. Also, it's so weird. I don't know who else deals with this, but it's the feeling you get when you're in a situation and to communicate it, it's so much easier just to be like, okay, I'm going to leave. And then when you leave...

A person like I have that problem I struggle with, it's just this weight comes off, you know, and it's like, it's almost like... You feel free. Yeah. Instead of actually having the conversation and doing the work and respecting, you know, the person you're in that relationship with, giving them that respect to communicate that. I've had to work on that a lot.

I mean, because we were, that was it. But that's one of your triggers too, which is abandonment. And I feed right into that. It was like a perfect storm. Do you remember, like, how did you feel the last time? How did you feel in December when we got back together? And what were your thoughts? I remember telling, this is after the three pregnancies didn't work, after you left, after we were...

broken up, completely ready to sign the papers, divorce papers. We started hanging out a little bit. Then we got pregnant. And I remember I had taken myself to the beach by myself in an RV. And I was still grappling with things and really trying to, because the coming back together process where we started hanging out again was extremely difficult. It was like wading through shit.

You know, because we were, we still weren't really equipped. Well, cause you, I was being a little bit more patient. Like I was like, I'm kind of, I have this apartment. I'd like to like, Oh my God, don't even get me started right now. I was making it like, well, we didn't, we did, we did this, this and this wrong in the first, like the first go around.

let's not do that a second go around. Oh, so you were trying to not rush back into things. Yeah. Do you think that that was because you didn't think you were ready yet again? Yeah. I think I loved you. I knew I, I mean, I was, you were my wife still technically. I, I just, I, I, yeah, I wanted to, I wanted to go slow. There's a lot. You were like bullshit. There's a lot there. That's,

I feel like we still need to communicate through is that I'm just feeling this tinge of like heat coming up my, at the back of my neck. Yeah. But I've learned to handle that in a different way now, not react. Yeah. And attempt to communicate my way through it, which we can do. Great. At a later time. But yeah, that the coming back together part was very difficult for me. I'll speak for myself. Yeah.

And I continued to feel like you didn't really want it. By you going slow and doing it the way you wanted to do it, it didn't make me feel good. And I remember just really struggling with that. So I went to the beach that day with the dogs and I wasn't feeling well. I was feeling nauseous. I drove the RV into Santa Barbara, got a pregnancy test, took it in the RV. Yeah, that's right.

And saw that I was pregnant again. And I was like, oh my God. Oh yeah, that's right. I totally forgot about that. You were in an RV. And I called you. Uh-huh. Do you remember what you thought when I told you that? Man, no. I mean, shocked. Just like really shocked. I think I felt like doom. I felt like, oh, this is, here we go. This is not good. Like I didn't have that joyous yay the first time we had. You know, I felt like...

I don't think we're really even ready to deal with this again. And then nature made it so that we didn't have to deal with it again. So we kind of at that point got the message. I think that we weren't necessarily meant to have kids again.

Did we ever, after all of that drama, I don't think we ever had the conversation of like, let's adopt or let's do a surrogate. No. I remember asking you, did you want to explore having a surrogate, having someone else carry the baby? No. And you were absolute about not wanting that. No, because I don't know if this is wrong. I like everything now.

You know what I mean? I don't need that. I have everything I need. And I was really just trying to do it for you. Yeah. Because I already had my kids and I was like already... I remember thinking like, oh my God, going back to sleepless nights and diapers and my boobs hurting. Yeah, but I wish...

I wish you wouldn't, like the pressure, I didn't, I felt like I wasn't pressuring you in that. You were. No, you weren't pressuring me. You had some, you wanted it. I wanted it for you. Uh-huh. And even when you were like, no, I don't, I'm okay with it. I didn't, I told you I believed you, but I guess deep down inside I didn't. Mm-mm. I don't think you did. Whew. Whoa. This is a lot.

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If it's got to be clean, it's got to be tied. This election season, the stakes are higher than ever. I think the choice is clear in this election. Join me, Charlemagne Tha God, for We The People, an audio town hall with Vice President Kamala Harris and you, live from Detroit, Michigan, exclusively on iHeartRadio. They'll tackle the tough questions, depressing issues, and the future of our nation. We may not see eye to eye on every issue, but America, we are not going back.

Don't miss this powerful conversation with Vice President Kamala Harris. Tomorrow at 5 p.m. Eastern, 2 p.m. Pacific on the free iHeartRadio app's Hip Hop Beat Station. Hey, it's Mike and Ian. We're the hosts of How to Do Everything from NPR's Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me. Each week we take your questions and find someone much smarter than us to answer them. Questions like, how do you survive the Bermuda Triangle? How do you find a date inside the Bermuda Triangle? We can't help you.

But we will find someone who can. Listen to the How to Do Everything podcast on iHeartRadio. Hey, friends. I'm Jessica Capshaw. And this is Camilla Luddington. And we have a new podcast. Call it what it is. You may know us from Graceland Memorial, but...

And now here we are, opening up the friendship circle...

To you. Someone's cheating? We've got you on that. In-laws are in-lying? Let's get into it. Toxic friendship? Air it out. We're on your side to help you with your concerns. Talk about ours. And every once in a while, bring on an awesome guest to get their take on the things that you bring us. While we may be unlicensed to advise, we're going to do it anyway. Listen to Call It What It Is on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

The girls are all young women now. How do you feel with certainty today about not being a biological father? Wonderful. You didn't hesitate at all. I feel great. I feel fantastic. You're killing me.

I feel great that you're great with it because I finally am like, you know what? I'm real good with it too. No, I mean, I enjoy... I love the girls. I love spending time with them. Secretly, I'm like...

I want them to wait, but I secretly, like deep down, I'm very excited about the grandkids. One day. One day. And that could be 20, 30 years from now, 40 years from now. But there is a part of me that, yeah, I'm excited about that. Because I love you. I want us to kind of go...

shut that door. You know, the past is the past and I'm grateful for it. I have so much gratitude for what we, we went through, even though it sounds crazy. And even though I hadn't really like, we, we still really haven't discussed it. Um, I guess we are now. Yeah. Um, I mean, we have, but I'm just so grateful for what we have and what the, the, the path in which the girls are going. Um,

And their next chapter is in life. And to be a part of that is very special. And quite selfishly, it's nice to play golf and not have an eight-year-old. Sorry. You guys just heard the actual truth. That is the bottom line for you? No, that's a joke. That's just a joke. But no, I'm very grateful for how the story played out. And people who are...

looking to do IVF and or going through IVF I mean my heart goes out to all of you I think it's it's it's a wonderful thing but it's also you know communicate with your partner is is is huge communication is huge I think communicating more specifically about your feelings through the process is

with one another. Yeah. Cause I mean, what if I would have came up to you and was like, man, I'm, I'm just so sad. Then we would have been sad together. Yeah. But I didn't know. I didn't know. I didn't know if I was supposed to be that sad, you know? Yeah. But my heart goes out to people who are doing it. And especially the success stories are amazing. And there's a lot of other stories that

People don't get a chance to tell. Let me ask you this. When you hear, even still to this day, we know people who are having babies from IVF, from the assistance of IVF. Close friends. Currently very, very close friends of yours. How does that make you feel? Because I've watched as we went through this whole process, I've watched as every one of your friends has.

pretty much has started their families and you're, you haven't, you never got to do those things that they are doing. Yeah. And I know that, um, along the way that has been hard for you, even though you didn't really tell me about it, I could tell, but how is it now? And where you are today hearing that, um, your close friends are expecting a baby. Um, I'm, I'm,

I'm a little anxious for them because I want it to be joyous and I want it to succeed. So I guess I'm anxious, I'm nervous, and I hope everything works out. And I'm sure it will. And I'm very excited for them. There's no part of you that's sad? Like, no. Because you want to go golfing.

Not just that. I mean, I got Fiona, I did elementary school. Like I went from having an apartment to walking in a fifth grader to school every day. And then Lola was in like what, sixth grade? No, what was, no, Lola was sixth. What was Fiona, like third, fourth? Yeah.

Yeah, you really got to raise... I already did. We went to... How many weekends did we do soccer? Soccer, soccer, soccer, soccer. A lot of weekends. So, I mean...

Yeah, we're fully, I've already done all that. I haven't changed diapers. That's it. Well, you will get to with our grandbabies. I think that's one of the reasons we're both so excited. We might actually just like steal the baby. Yeah. For, you know, the weekend. For sure. But then give it back. I'm very excited. I'm very excited about that. And yeah, I'm happy for the journey that we went on. You know, even though it was...

God, it sucked. But I think talking about it, bringing it to light, certainly talking about it with one another, but sharing our story with other people is the key to moving through it. Yeah. I mean, I went into this talk today probably like unprepared, but it is emotional topic. It's

And especially it's at the forefront. I mean, it's in the election right now. And it's huge. It's a big deal. Because this is a really good way for people to fulfill their dream, to have a family. And to have that option, that right, be someone else's decision is real difficult for me and for a lot of people to understand. Right.

Do you feel good about sharing? Yeah, I feel good. Yeah. How do you feel? I feel good. Did we jar your memory a little bit? Yeah, I jarred my memory. You also brought up some things I didn't want to really remember. Oh, yeah.

I mean, I had some stuff pop up too while we were talking. I was like, what is that? Wait, what? Are you remembering the time I threw your golf clubs? No, well, no, I didn't say that. That was in the beginning of the podcast when I was like, well, when we were talking about hormones, I was like, well, you did write that into one of your shows where you threw my golf clubs in the pool. So, and then when I asked you, why did you do that? You said, I wanted to go after...

something you love. And I was like, well, yeah, okay. You did a good job. Now, whenever we have a fight and you go for a drive, you take your golf clubs with you. No, no, no. That was one time I ran out of the house and I ran out with my golf clubs and threw them in the back of the truck. Just in case. Yeah. I was like, oh, if I leave these here, they're going to be snapped. Yeah.

Good times. But that's good stuff to laugh about now. It's good that we can laugh about it. You know, I mean, you did like a one, you did a twirl. I'm on camera, but you did a twirl with my cell phone and then it came out and flew at my head and hit the back of the wall. And I got up like this and you were staring at me. And I was like, okay, hormones. Hormones.

Everyone's had hormone stories. Yeah. That would be a fun episode. Let's just get all be really honest about our worst moments. Okay. Okay. So I feel like we've talked about this a little bit too much. I feel like we're going to go. I know I'm going to go. I need to decompress a little. I need to process some of the stuff that's coming up for me. Well, listen, honey, I wouldn't have changed anything about our story. I'm grateful we went through it together.

I'm sorry we had to go through it. I love you. No, that means a lot to me. Thank you. I obviously love you too. Before I let you go, babe, what was your last I choose me moment? Oh, man. You always ask me this question. Like you asked it like, when was the last I choose moment? Well, that's easy. Sunday morning, football all day. No one was here.

You were out of town. And I literally, I watched football all day with me and the dogs. I chose me that day. And I chose fantasy football players. Okay. Well, there you have it, people. Football can be an I choose me moment. Well, thank you for having me on the podcast. You're welcome. Love you. Love you. I want to thank my husband, Dave, for coming back on the pod today.

and for having that uncomfortable conversation with me. That time in our relationship was definitely not easy, but I wanted to share it because I know that a lot of people go through similar struggles when it comes to fertility and starting a family, or maybe you don't have a partner, but you're thinking of starting a family on your own and you wanted to know a little bit more about IVF. We felt like it was important for us to share our story with you because it

Even though it was difficult, we made it through and all of that pain created room for significant growth, both individually and in our relationship. As we continue to choose ourselves each week, I want to ask you a question. Have you been avoiding having a conversation with someone in your life because you know it will be difficult?

I know Dave and I talked about this, how when we were going through some of our darkest times, we weren't talking to each other about our feelings. We weren't communicating and it almost broke us. Are you and your partner communicating about not just the good times, but also the difficult times? Or maybe you've been putting off having a tense conversation with a family member. Look, I am here to tell you, living in your head with your thoughts is not the way to do it.

And I know because I'm a master at living in my head with my thoughts. So even if you can't talk with that person this week, I want to encourage you to have a conversation with someone. Talking about whatever you might be going through is going to feel a lot better than keeping it inside. Thank you for listening to I Choose Me.

Please check out our socials, follow the show, rate us, review us, drop me a message, a comment, use the hashtag I choose me whenever you feel like it. I'll be right here next week. I hope you choose to be here too.

Did you know Tide has been upgraded to provide an even better clean in cold water? Tide is specifically designed to fight any stain you throw at it, even in cold. Butter? Yep. Chocolate ice cream? Sure thing. Barbecue sauce? Tide's got you covered. You don't need to use warm water. Additionally, Tide Pods let you confidently fight tough stains with new coldzyme technology. Just remember...

If it's got to be clean, it's got to be tied. This election season, the stakes are higher than ever. I think the choice is clear in this election. Join me, Charlemagne Tha God, for We The People, an audio town hall with Vice President Kamala Harris and you, live from Detroit, Michigan, exclusively on iHeartRadio. They'll tackle the tough questions, depressing issues, and the future of our nation. We may not see eye to eye on every issue, but America, we are not going back.

Don't miss this powerful conversation with Vice President Kamala Harris. Tomorrow at 5 p.m. Eastern, 2 p.m. Pacific on the free iHeartRadio app's Hip Hop Beat Station. I'm NK, and this is Basket Case. What is wrong with me? A show about the ways that mental illness is shaped by not just biology. Swaps of different meds. But by culture and society. By looking closely at the conditions that cause mental distress, I find out why so many of us are struggling to feel sane.

what we can do about it, and why we should care. Listen to Basket Case every Tuesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In California during the summer of 1975, within the span of 17 days and less than 90 miles, two women did something no other woman had done before, try to assassinate the President of the United States.

One was the protege of Charles Manson. 26-year-old Lynette Fromm, nicknamed Squeaky. The other, a middle-aged housewife working undercover for the FBI. Identified by police as Sarah Jean Moore. The story of one strange and violent summer, this season on the new podcast, Rip Current. Hear episodes of Rip Current early and completely ad-free and receive exclusive bonus content by subscribing to iHeart True Crime Plus, only on Apple Podcasts.

Hey friends, I'm Jessica Capshaw. And this is Camilla Luddington. And we have a new podcast. Call it what it is.

You may know us from Graceland Memorial, but did you know that we are actually besties in real life? And as all besties do, we navigate the highs and lows of life together. Big or small, we're there. And now here we are opening up the friendship circle to you. Listen to Call It What It Is on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.