Love Don't Cost A Thing...Except It Does
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Hey friends, I'm Jessica Capshaw and this is Camilla Luddington and we have a new podcast. Call it what it is.

You may know us from Graceland Memorial, but did you know that we are actually besties in real life? And as all besties do, we navigate the highs and lows of life together. Big or small, we're there. And now here we are opening up the friendship circle to you. Listen to Call It What It Is on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, fam. I'm Simone Boyce. I'm Danielle Robay. And we're the hosts of The Bright Side, the podcast from Hello Sunshine that's guaranteed to light up your day. Check out our recent episode with dancer, actress, and host of Dancing with the Stars, Julianne Hough, revealing the healing journey behind her new novel, Everything We Never Knew.

I am showing up for my younger self and it is becoming a ripple effect energetically in my life. And that's why I feel so safe now. Listen to The Bright Side from Hello Sunshine on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, everyone. This is Jimmy O'Brien from John Boy Media. I want to quickly tell you about my podcast. It's called Jimmy's Three Things. Episodes come out every Tuesday, and for 30 minutes, I dive into three stories in Major League Baseball that I want to talk about, or I do a stat deep dive. Sometimes I create my own stats.

It gets weird. It's now your go-to podcast for staying up to date and in the weeds with Major League Baseball. No topic is off limits or too small. Bad umpires, great pitcher-catcher duos, new rules, old rules, three things that I want to talk about. Listen to Jimmy's Three Things on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. ♪

I do part two as a one of a kind experience in podcasting and love. If you don't get it right the first time, we're here to help you get it right the next time. I'm one of your celebrity mentors, Kelly Ben Simone from the Real Housewives of New York. And I know firsthand that love stories don't always have fairytale endings, but that doesn't mean you should give up on love.

Today, I'm going to be joined with another one of our celebrity mentors. You know her as former pro dancer for 26 seasons on Dancing with the Stars, and she's the host of the podcast Sex...

lies, and spray tans, please welcome Cheryl Burke to the podcast. Hi, Cheryl. Hi. How are you, Kelly? How are you? I'm great. Thank you. How are you? Oh my God. First of all, you're so beautiful. You're like drop dead. Thank you. Drop dead. We have so much to talk about. We have so much in common. I know. I read a little bit about you. I saw a couple of your past interviews. So yes, we do have a lot in common actually. I mean, you were a dancer. I

I was a model. You have pretty long hair. I have pretty long hair. I mean, if I really were to take... If I were to be real, most of the hair is fake, but it is what it is. It's fine. You're beautiful. We do have a lot in common. We both have been through a lot.

a lot of difficult times in our past with relationships with finding love. So tell us a little bit about your relationship and why you think that it didn't work out.

Or why you know it didn't work out. Yeah, I mean, I think I'll just go backwards here. So now, right, as of today, I am single and celibate for the last three years. And I have definitely found power in that. I used to be a serial dater. So I always went from man to man to man. Never had maybe a couple days off. Like, I'm not exaggerating whatsoever. And with my marriage to my ex-husband...

You know, we actually met when I first started Dancing with the Stars through his older brother who did Dancing with the Stars back in season three. So that was like in 2007. And I was very new to this entertainment industry. And it was just bad timing, I guess, too, because he was obviously still is, I'm assuming, an actor. And he started as a child. And

I was just at the height of the success of Dancing with the Stars. So we were on tour. We did two seasons a year, two tours a year. So I was just like working all around the clock, barely had a day off. And so we dated for a year and then we reconnected about a decade later and started dating and soon after got married. So, and now not married. Right. So serial dater to getting married to not getting married. So,

Dating someone, marrying someone who was not in your financial bracket. Right. I don't know how better to say it. We just weren't. I guess he wasn't necessarily working. Right. The time. Yeah. As much. He was working, but not as much.

Right. So that must have been really stressful because you were traveling and your hours are crazy and you're with a lot of new people. I kind of knew what I was getting into. That's just my personality. I am never going to not make money. I think that comes from my mother, who's a rags to riches story. And I've seen her hustle, was raised with her hustle. So that's who I am ultimately. Yeah.

And I am actually proud of that. There's no shame with that for sure. And I knew what I was marrying. So like I knew what I was getting into financially. However, it did take a toll. I would say more maybe on, I'm not going to speak for him. I'm not here to bad mouth him whatsoever, but I believe that there is this gender role, right? Where a man may feel a little emasculated when he doesn't make the majority of the money.

And I think that may have taken a toll. So this episode is a lot about prenups. Did you guys have a prenup? Absolutely. Yeah. And why did you get the prenup? Well, you know, for obvious reasons. I mean, I got a prenup. My family, actually, they were very involved with that. My mother wanted, you know, me to be protected. I also, my family has money and we had to protect the...

family estate, but also for me as well. Like clearly, um, you know, I was the one making more money. So my mom, you know, I owned a home and there's just a lot of, um, little details. I don't think a lot of people know when it comes to, especially in California, you know, so I, I, uh, I'm not sure if this is true, but we could ask, uh, the professional who's about to be here soon. Uh, I hear that if somebody plants a succulent actually on your property, they could fight, uh,

for your property if you guys divorce and without a prenup that is. But that was no easy conversation. Right. I was just going to ask that. How did you approach that? You're like, let's go pumpkin picking and talk prenups. Like how does that work? It was an ultimatum. Yeah, it was a full on ultimatum. And my prenup attorney, first of all, it's not cheap. It consisted of like 70 to 85 pages long of

lots of words and lots of fine detail and fine print. But this was something that my attorney suggested was to make sure I hire him an attorney as well. So that was definitely part of the deal. And I understood like it's all good, but I have to say that it definitely, it raised a lot of concerns, especially on his behalf and,

But there was really not much to do. Either we do this and we get married or we don't. And it's pretty black and white. You know, you and I are so similar because I also prepared a prenup for my ex-fiance. And, you know, I had this...

this amazing lawyer that just really wanted to make sure that I was protected and my girls were protected. Yes, you have kids, so that's different. Yes, I do. Yeah. And just the opportunity for me to make a lot of money in the future with just real estate and working in a lot of different states. I just wanted to make sure that I was going to be safe. He was married twice before. He's got a lot of kids. And so I just didn't want...

you know, I was trying to be optimistic, but I also needed to be protective of my own self. And, you know, it was interesting how he had the prenup for a while. And I was just always like, what's a while? Like a couple of weeks. I was like, you can read it and sign it whenever you want. Did you guys, what was the conversation like prior to that?

There wasn't a conversation. I just wasn't, I was like, here, here's the prenup. It's coming to your way. Did he know there was a prenup coming this way? I mean, I didn't, again, like it wasn't like pumpkins and prenups, like, hi, let's, you know, it's like, I literally went to, I went to the lawyer and then afterwards I said, you know, oh, there's going to be a, you know, a letter coming your way and, you know, just want to check it out and, you know, see what the situation was. Um, and yeah,

it just really put me off. It really put me off that someone wouldn't want me, someone that wanted to marry me so badly wouldn't want to make sure that I was protected and provided for. That really, really bothered me. I think that. And it really, I was just like, I'm like an on and off switch. Like I just am like, if I feel like any fear, I'm like fight or flight. I'm like, nope. Yeah, no, I hear you.

door closed. I'm so used to that fight or flight or freeze feeling. It's insane. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I just wonder though, like I remember my, you know, the conversation, obviously it was like, there was, you know, questions of, do I not trust, you know, him and all of that. And obviously, you know, this is separate from love. Money does not equal love. And that is something that

I think it's hard to, and still is for me to this day. Back in the day, I thought I can control people with my money. And obviously that is not the case. And that has a lot to do also with the way I was raised maybe. I don't know. I mean, I do know I've been in therapy my whole life, but...

At the end of the day, I get how the lines can be blurred. And I don't understand, but I can have a little bit of a compassion for that other person. But for someone to just call off an engagement because you're wanting to protect your assets and your...

it's something that we, we don't get our money handed to us. Like we work our asses off for our money and it ain't easy. And I'm so sorry. Thank you for saying that. Yeah. Thank you for saying that there's no random money tree on Housewives. Regardless if I come from my, but my parents are very protective over there. Like I am,

well over 18. I'm 40 years old. And I also have my own ego and pride. Like, I'm not going to ask mommy and daddy for anything I never have. Right. So it's interesting because a lot of people are like, okay, you're talking about prenups a lot, Kelly. And they're like, is it just for women in their 40s and 50s? And it's

There was a study that millennials, 47% of millennials are getting prenups. And so they should. Everyone should get a prenup if it's worth it. Because it's not worth it if you guys are both not, you know, you're just up and coming. No, but if you've made a little money, if you've made $20,000, that money at 20 years old, if you put it away for yourself, could be a lot of money. It's, you know. Yeah. So, you know, I think that it's just really...

I think it's really important. Listen, I made the mistake. I should have talked to my ex earlier. I was going to ask you that. I made a mistake. I should have had a more open conversation with him. I just have never had an open conversation with anyone about finances outside of my father. And so he's deceased. So he's not available. Hi, dad. Love you. Same with me. Hi, dad. Hi, dad.

Um, so, you know, I, I should have probably had more of a, you know, different narrative, but I am actually glad that I didn't have one at the beginning. Um,

Because I may have been like, well, think about it. Or he might have like maybe said, oh, you don't worry about it. We're going to have a traditional marriage. And I'm going to be like, okay, so if we get divorced or if I die, I'm taking care of your kids. It's not comfortable to have these conversations. And then by the way, the easiest thing to do is not to have it, right? Like-

I mean, really. But then at the end of the day, you start to understand that, okay, well, without the communication, things are going to either blow up or have caused resentment. And I think this prenup definitely caused resentment within our marriage. Absolutely.

Muhammad Ali, George Foreman, James Brown, B.B. King, Miriam Akiba. I shook up the world. James Brown said, say it loud. And the kid said, I'm black and I'm proud. Black boxing stars and black music royalty together in the heart of Zaire, Africa.

Three days of music and then the boxing event. What was going on in the world at the time made this fight as important that anything else is going on on the planet. My grandfather laid on the ropes and let George Foreman basically just punch himself out. Welcome to Rumble, the story of a world in transformation. The 60s and prior to that, you couldn't call a person black. And how we arrived at this peak moment. Hi!

I don't have to be what you want me to be. We all came from the continent of Africa. Listen to Rumble, Ali, Foreman, and the Soul of 74 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In 1982, Atari players had one thing on their minds. Sword Quest. This wasn't just a new game. Atari promised $150,000 in prizes to four finalists.

But the prizes disappeared. And what started as a video game promotion became one of the most controversial moments in 80s pop culture. I just don't believe they exist. I mean, my reaction is shock and awe. That sword was amazing. It was so beautiful.

I'm Jamie Loftus. Join me this spring for The Legend of Sword Quest, a podcast about the fall of Atari and the disappearing Sword Quest prizes. We'll follow the quest for lost treasure across four decades. It's almost like a metaphor for the industry and Atari itself in a way. Listen to The Legend of Sword Quest on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who, on October 16, 2017, was murdered. There are crooks everywhere you look now. The situation is desperate. My name is Manuel Delia. I am one of the hosts of Crooks Everywhere, a podcast that unhurts the plot to murder a one-woman Wikileaks. Daphne exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state.

And she paid the ultimate price. Listen to Crooks everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So what about the press? You've been through the press and it hasn't been easy for you. So what did you think about the press recently?

you know, talking about your prenup. Well, let me first say that because of the prenup, my divorce was pretty easy, right? So there was like, that is the positive of it all. Like it was very clean and clear as far as what was happening and the next steps moving forward. So that in itself saved a lot of headache and stress. Now, as far as press goes, I mean,

I mean, I've been on Dancing with the Stars. I was on it since 2007, never, and I did 26 seasons of it. And I went, I mean, I've been on the press for my weight. I've been on the press for all of my 26 partners I've hooked up with, which is all a lie, right? Wow. No, not even. I mean, Wayne Newton, maybe, but kidding.

I love it. This too shall pass. There's going to be bigger and better news soon. It was not so much that. It was more like, for me, I get affected still and I can't wait until the day I don't. But I care about what other people think of me and I'm not even going to lie. This is...

Yeah, this is what I do. My publicist, when he broke the news to the press and talked about the prenup,

I was like, I've had such bad press. I mean, I get great press for my work, but for my housewife's life, it's like, you're crazy, you're nuts, you're stupid, you're an idiot, you're this, you're that, you're awful. And I literally was like, he was like, shut your phone off and just go to bed. And I was actually getting a colonic while we were organizing this. And I'm like, how serendipitous. I'm like, getting a colonic, time to sever the ties. And so...

He was just like, shut your phone off. And so I did. And in the morning, people were clapping. And I was getting all these clapping emojis. And I'm just like, oh my gosh. Did you not think that was going to happen? I'm just so used to people saying that I'm nuts and crazy and stupid and idiot and awful and ugly and fat and whatever it is. I was just shell-shocked. I'm not going to lie. And then I thought to myself, oh my God, I could actually help people

like navigate these waters because to your point, you know, it just, the transparency is just, it just makes everything. It's like everyone talks about like, you know, your partner's your best friend, open up to them. Well, okay. So you're opening up to them on all these different levels and telling them all these things. But then when it comes to your finances, it's like, oh, just whatever happens, devil may care.

And, you know, I'm so grateful for him and I'm just so grateful for the press to be so proactive and supportive of me. It really meant a lot. Yeah. I mean, I'm not shocked by that just because like, especially in today's age, I think maybe back in maybe the Renaissance ages, people would have been like, who are you to do this? Especially as a woman, you know, but I totally am with you. I

I think this is why people are like, you overshare. And I'm like, okay, but I know I'm helping somebody feel like they're not alone regardless. And I think that's why I have chosen to talk about it with respect still to my ex, obviously, about my everything. I've talked about my mental health. I've talked about my sexual assault situation, being molested as a little girl. I've been an open book.

And I know that when I was a little girl going through that, I wish I could actually hear someone else who had a platform talk about it as well.

I love that. I love that. I'm learning. I'm trying. I have a therapist now, which I've had on and off therapists, but I'm like, okay, how do I be a queen? And she's like, no more trying to be a queen, Kelly. She's like, you need to get raw and real. And what is it that's making you attracted to these kind of men? And why would you even put yourself in a position like that? You've raised two girls on your own. You've survived

you know, the wrath of, you know, wildness for so many years and still made it through the other side. Like, why would you put yourself through this? And like,

What are your thoughts on that? Well, what was your answer? Why do you attract men like that? Well, you said it in one of your articles. I think it was like E! Online. You just said like you're the wrong picker. Yeah, no, I'm a bad picker because of the abuse I dealt with as a little girl that my definition of a man wasn't necessarily stable, right? So my mother and father divorced when...

I was two, my very first memory as a kid was seeing my father with another woman. And then it just, and then I got molested when I was about six years old, went to testify against him at nine. And then from then on my whole high school career, I dated abusive men because that was my normal, right?

was my normal, was that there was no normalcy as far as what a healthy relationship is. And when there was a good man that came or crossed my path, I was turned off by him because that was not something I was used to. But this is why I'm choosing to be single and celibate because I need to retrain my brain and that takes time.

Yeah. I mean, I think that that's, and you're sober as well. Yes. For six years. That's incredible. I mean, that's so good because we're talking about the transparency. We're talking about that clarity. And now you're able to like see what is good for you and for your life. Which is also really hard because I also left the show for similar reasons. Like when I chose to be sober, I became so clear that I was, no wonder I was drinking and numbing, you know?

And were you numbing because of the pain from the divorce? Pain in general. I never felt my feelings. And when you don't feel your feelings, though it's easily said than done for sure, and I'm still currently, I'm a work in progress. I'm not perfect. Intellectually, I get it. But when it comes down to it, I am a professional number, even if it's not through alcohol or whatever, like I can numb through work.

And I can be so busy if I want to that I don't have to ever face my feelings. And I think that is an actual, in society today, what we're all doing, to be quite honest. Oh my God, I hope I'm not doing that. I work so much. How busy are you? Very. Maybe I'm doing that. Oh my God. One thing at a time. Oh my God, Cheryl, I'm learning so much. This is a forever thing. Like we're gonna forever work. Wait, I'm having a very cathartic moment with you. I'm gonna pay you $150 when we're done. No, I don't need your money, Cheryl.

Um, what do you, what do you think of the double standard for women and for prenups? I don't like, I haven't really thought too much about it. I really don't think it's our problem. I think it's the person who's receiving the prenup, which if it's the woman, then it's the person she's marrying. And it depends on that person's ego. Like, I don't know. I think people are very, I think, especially now, like I said earlier, people congratulate you for it. I think it's important to, uh,

protect yourself regardless of who it is, a woman, a man, whatever. If you don't go by any gender, so be it. Like this is just life and we work too hard for us to give that away. Yeah. I mean, it's just insane. I mean, it's just like the whole thing is just, you know, I actually took, I mean, I'm not celibate, but I did take the summer off and I have so many of my friends asking, you know,

oh, when are you going to start dating again? And I actually started going on a couple of dates, which was like, I hate that question. It was just real. It was really awful. I'm like, it doesn't, you know, they're like, oh, she just like, would someone say like, um, kick the dust off or something? I'm like, I'm very excited. I'm sorry. What dust? Yeah. First of all, there's no dust anywhere near me or around me. So your perfectionism, perfectionism is intact. Just like mine. That's another conversation. Yeah.

Do you think the prenups are unromantic? No, it's real. And I wish, if I could have done it all over again, I wish I was...

Because like anybody, I'm sure, and I think like you, I don't want to speak for you, but it was uncomfortable for me to have this conversation. And we went to couples therapy the moment we got back together the second time around, like the moment. Like that was a requirement. It was non-negotiable. No matter, like you don't go to, for me, I don't believe in just going to therapy when there's problems. You go before there's problems because then you can really...

you know, have those conversations because you're still at the honeymoon phase and God knows how long that lasts before, you know, you talk about marriage. And look, there was a lot of red flags for me. And I think selfishly, I wanted to see if I could get married. I don't know if I was ready either, you know, and it was like a production. I made it literally, I made it like a Dancing with the Stars show.

Like I worked with Mindy Weiss. We tried to micromanage her. It was a whole thing like this was there was just so many red flags. Oh, my God. I also had red flags. And it's interesting you say that because now like looking back, I am seeing like, OK, you know,

I probably, my own self was probably telling my, myself, like, if he doesn't sign the prenup, you're going to be fine. Cause he doesn't really want to be with you. My, you know, my red flags were just, you know, to be a hundred percent transparent. And this is not to, to be a huge dig, but his, his,

life with his ex-wives was so messy and it was such a distraction and I just didn't want anything to do with it and I just could it was just messy what did your kids think about him

My kids, my kids, you know, I'm so lucky, Cheryl. I'm so lucky. I just have really great kids. And they, you know, they've been through a lot. I mean, they've been through, they've been through the, you know, Housewives, which is really, really, not the show was hard, but just like, you know, how some of the Housewives can just be like, just venomous. Yeah.

They're 24 and 26 and they've just like grown to be like such amazing humans. And I'm so proud of them. That says a lot about you. Oh my God. Thank you. Appreciate that. So some of the red flags were just like, you know, messiness with, you know, with his, um, his exes. Did he ever sign a prenup with them? He tried to post up with one of them. Hmm.

But, you know, I just was that was just messy and it was just too much. I didn't want anything to do with it. And that was something because I love children. And I'm like, if you can't get along with me, you can't get along with anybody. I mean, I am the most easygoing person. But if I don't like something, I'm like, good.

Good for you. Like we all have that, right? We all have an intuition. The question is, is if you follow it or not, you know, and you try and release control because we can't control anybody but ourselves actually. So I think that because I travel so much and I, you know, I work in all these different cities and I travel a lot.

and I have a very unusual work schedule. I think that he kind of thought that I wasn't paying attention and that it was just kind of like, okay. I actually was paying attention. I just was not interested. I was like, I don't like mess. Yeah, you're not interested to have another kid. If I can raise two kids and provide for two kids and not have... I've said this a million times, like,

I don't mind if you have baggage, like, you know, sheath, little baton, little gooch, you know, like the Pharrell edition. Oh, that type of baggage. Not like emotional baggage. First of all, I don't have the keys for a storage locker. Second of all, I'm not going to the storage locker. I'm like, this is just not my vibe. I can't do that. It's not happening. Did he work? Did he make money? Yeah, he worked. No, no, he worked. He worked. So, yeah.

He worked, but I just have more of an earning potential. Let's talk about that again too, about just being with men who... Married to men, being with men who make less. Because I have done that in the past. I've only been with men that make less. And I think that's my issue with control. So I don't know if I could ever...

ever I mean I'm trying to change that because I don't I think that there is a psychological issue there that I've been again working on with my therapist but I am a controlling woman obviously yeah and I am and this is a pattern for me right so I've never not even I've never dated anybody who was more successful than me

Muhammad Ali, George Foreman, James Brown, B.B. King, Miriam Akiba. I shook up the world. James Brown said, say it loud. And the kids said, I'm black and I'm proud. Black boxing stars and black music royalty together in the heart of Zaire, Africa.

Three days of music and then the boxing event. What was going on in the world at the time made this fight as important that anything else is going on on the planet. My grandfather laid on the ropes and let George Foreman basically just punch himself out. Welcome to Rumble, the story of a world in transformation. The 60s and prior to that, you couldn't call a person black. And how we arrived at this peak moment. Ah!

I don't have to be what you want me to be. We all came from the continent of Africa. Listen to Rumble, Ali, Foreman, and the Soul of 74 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In 1982, Atari players had one thing on their minds. Sword Quest. This wasn't just a new game. Atari promised $150,000 in prizes to four finalists.

But the prizes disappeared. And what started as a video game promotion became one of the most controversial moments in 80s pop culture. I just don't believe they exist. That would be my reaction, shock and awe. That sword was amazing. It was so beautiful.

I'm Jamie Loftus. Join me this spring for The Legend of Sword Quest, a podcast about the fall of Atari and the disappearing Sword Quest prizes. We'll follow the quest for lost treasure across four decades. It's almost like a metaphor for the industry and Atari itself in a way. Listen to The Legend of Sword Quest on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16, 2017, was murdered. There are crooks everywhere you look now. The situation is desperate. My name is Manuel Delia. I am one of the hosts of Crooks Everywhere, a podcast that unhurts the plot to murder a one-woman Wikileaks. Daphne exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state.

And she paid the ultimate price. Listen to Crooks everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

So I've only dated a couple younger guys. The majority of the handful of guys that I've dated have been extremely successful. Okay. So except for... What was the dynamic like? One of them was younger and he was like starting off in finance and he had an amazing job. But most of them, my serious guys, I mean, it's different. Like guys you hang out with, that's different. But like, you know, real boyfriends, you know,

They were all really, really successful, but they, you know, some of them had been younger. And, you know, it's funny because when I was with them, I would be like, you know, I would be so, I was like, so like attracted to the love and having the best time. But like in the back of my head, I was always thinking like, you know, I'm provided for my kids. I've done this all this on my own. Who is going to take care of me?

And sometimes it just gets exhausting, Cheryl, to be like constantly, like sometimes I feel like that little hamster on the wheel, just like, I can do it. I can do it. I can get this next license. I can get this next deal. I can bring this. I can do that. I'm like, I'm going. I get it. I mean, this transition from this being on the show and having consistent work to then choosing not to be on it has been, it is still hard. It's hard. Yeah.

But going back to the reason why, I think for me, I thought that if I made more or I was more successful that they wouldn't cheat on me. And that's a big fear of mine is infidelity. Oh my gosh. That's really funny because you know what's so funny is because I would say like, whatever, if like we get into a fight or whatever, they'd be like, oh, I just met this 23 year old. I was like, oh, like send him a book and I'll sign it.

Awful. I'm awful. I could be awful. I know. No, you're not. Believe me, you're not awful. I'm loving, but awful. No, I hear what I've been saying. I'm a full-on control freak. I would like to say I'm recovering, but I'm not recovering yet. I'm still there. That's why I'm not with another. By the way, the book that I was going to send to them was called I Can Make You Hot. Wow.

It's worse. I'm sure they would find that funny. I can't. I'm sorry. I'm just being honest. I like it. I just need to be transparent. Yeah, for sure. Do you think this stereotype of men needing to make money will ever go away?

It's just not true. So people could still live in the Renaissance ages. That's fine. But I mean, everyone evolves and so does this world. And that honestly just isn't true anymore. So I think and I also know that like my mother was the breadwinner in both of her marriages. So I don't know anything else.

It's interesting because my daughters, they're 24 and 26, and some of their friends are single parents. And my youngest daughter, she's like, Mommy, you're single, but you're not. You were divorced but separated, but you're not really a divorced mom. I'm like, no, I'm not married. What does that mean? I know. She goes, well, we're not raised like that because you're like the mom and the dad. We weren't really raised like that. But she's like, other moms are not like you, and they are looking for these men and desperate for these men. And when I go on these dates, these guys are like...

they want to know what vacation we're going on. I'm like vacation. Like I don't have time for vacation. They're like, do you have time to date? Maybe. Right. I'm like, wait a minute. You just asked me, you were just complaining about a woman going on vacation with you. And then now you're mad at me because I'm working. So I can't see you until Thursday. How long was your break from your breakup with your ex that you were going to marry to dating? Um,

So we broke up at the end of June. Yeah. And then when did you start dating again?

Just recently in the past couple weeks. Got it. Got it. Yeah. No, I'm not looking for anybody. First of all, the fact that I'm alone, I live alone with my Frenchie and I love this life too much. My therapist is like, I'm a little worried about you. It's been three years. And I'm like, listen, for every narcissist you date, supposedly you need to give back to yourself like two years. This is from Dr. Romany. And...

I'm like, well, I still got a couple more years. So if you can't drink and you can't and you're not doing to have sex, what about like dance lessons? I've retired. Remember? I know, but just a little dirty dancing. I mean, I could teach you. Sure. We can't dance together. I'm talking about. No, I'm talking about you and your boyfriend or whoever you're dating. I have like four left feet. It's like hideous. Please. I would love that. But no, but you don't. What about like just like.

I have zero interest in dating. I'm not looking for anyone. I am definitely, I know I'm looking for me at the moment. Like I'm currently trying to figure out my identity was so outside of me. The show was my identity. Everything that was so not something that you could definitely just take out of my life. I don't want that feeling ever again in my life. Like I want to be able to find happiness within myself. And let me tell you,

with a lot of the stuff that I've, I guess, not dealt with. It's all coming up right now at the moment. And so I still have a lot of,

to work on within myself before I even am interested in dating. I've never been on a dating app. I have zero interest. None of it. Yeah. I actually went on a dating app this summer and I talked about it in my last podcast and my, my, um, housewives nemesis ended up dating him. So that was hideous. Um, I'm not going to mention her name. Okay. No need to. He's a woman of a certain age. Um, anyway, um,

back to the show about prenups. Let's talk about setting me up. Let's get serious. You know, like now I'm ready to go. I'm done. I had my, I took a summer off. I'm studying for this Texas license. I mean, I'm dating, but like I want to date with intention. Oh, okay. So then you should get rid of the person you're talking to first. Then we can talk. Are you into dancers? I mean, I don't know how to dance, but I would love to learn how to dance. Opposites attract.

Okay, tell me what are you looking for? Like what are the physical features that you want versus what type of personality traits are you looking for?

I would like a head, shoulders, knees, and toes. Yeah. Nowadays, you never know. No. What am I looking for? I'm looking for... Actually, it's funny because I don't really have a specific body type. My kids are like, you don't really have a type. I've dated blondes. I've dated brunettes. I've dated shorter. Do they have to be good looking? Do they have to be fit?

No, I've dated like some chubbies. I've dated some like lean guys. I've dated like, yeah, I'm like, yeah. How about personality traits? Is it okay if he was married before? Yes, just as long as it doesn't sound messy. Just as long as there's no like, I hate my ex-wife. She's calling me every day. It's like, you don't hate your ex-wife. You want to talk to her if she's calling you every day. Are you avoidant or anxious attachment or secure attachment?

Oh my God, these are really intense questions. Can I write these down? It's like an SAT question for like romance. Oh my God. I think that when I love, I like really, I have a lot of energy. I mean, you're talking to me. I'm like literally going to leap out of the screen. But like when it comes, do you run away from committed? Are you scared or do you attach? Like I'm anxious attachment. I'm like a Wallaby Joey. I'm like whoop.

Yeah. Okay. So you're anxious. So supposedly statistics say, I could be wrong here, but my therapist said this, that anxious and avoidant always, most of the time end up together. And my ex was avoidant and I'm very anxious. So...

I have to actually look up all those different terms. I do not know. Your emotional intelligence is a 12 and mine is a preschoolers. I've been in therapy since I was five for obvious reasons. I just started. I'm going to talk to my therapist. There's some words I learned. Do you like your therapist? She's very nice. She's actually so nice. She's very warm with me. What have you learned from yourself from being single?

Wow. Well, the whole identity thing, you know, I said this on my during my goodbye speech with Tyra Banks when she was hosting the show a couple of years ago. And I was like, this show has been my identity. And I'd like to say that it has now changed because that for me was worse than my divorce was when I retired from the show because it was a part of my life.

since I moved to LA. Like I went from Harlem, you know, being a starving competitive ballroom dancer with my partner slash boyfriend. And it was not a great healthy relationship whatsoever to not even having a voice to then having my own voice. And I still credit the show to this day for helping me with just finding my own voice, but then also that it's not my identity, you know, and having to separate that, um,

Knowing that really the only that when people say you make me feel complete, that's a crock of shit. Like only you can make yourself feel complete. And that starts with self-love, self-care and prioritizing yourself and being selfish, but in a good way. And all of that is what I'm currently learning.

Oh my God. You're such a thoughtful person. I love that. And isn't Tyra just a beautiful, I love her. She's just a beautiful human. Well, so are you. And I really appreciate that. And I appreciate your honesty. Let's see. What have I learned? I've learned that sleeping in my bed alone is okay. I've learned that

I actually really kind of like myself. I used to like not like myself. I used to be like everything that everyone's saying is going through my head and I am all those things. I walk down the street, I would be like one of those people that's like, you know, I would see people and they would like a pop up be like, you're crazy. I hate you. Because it's just like social media came out when I first started. So like, that's just all I thought. And so I was just constantly in a sea of insecurity. And I

I recently in the past, like, I don't know, I've had this crazy wild awakening just, you know, with all this new responsibility for myself. And I had to move out of an apartment and try to find an apartment within a day and just really like taking control of my life overnight. I like, yeah.

just feel very, very, very proud of myself, which I never have ever. And it just feels really, really good to feel proud. Really good. That's awesome. I mean, like talk about resilience, right? Like, I mean, fight, flight or freeze to its finest. Name three things about yourself that you love.

My energy, my kindness and thoughtfulness towards others, and my ability to see the best in things. Now name three physical traits you love about yourself that you love. I really like my hair. Me too. I really, I really, yeah.

I hate my psoriasis. No, that's not part of it. That wasn't the question. That wasn't the question. Two more things. Come on, two more. Okay. I really like my hair. My eyes look fire today. They're green. Yeah, they do. So I like those. And I love my teeth.

Look at your cheekbones. You look snatched, girl. Like I would love to have your face structure. Oh, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. That was really nice. That was a nice exercise. I really appreciate that. Why do you think... Sorry to jump to another topic. I feel like we're like on like prenup ADD here. But what is... What...

Why are they so expensive? Why are these prenups so expensive? Well, I mean, think about it. You're actually, it's not that expensive if you put everything into perspective. It's worth every single penny, especially if you're trying to save your life savings and whomever is attached to you. It's actually worth every penny, to be quite honest. I don't regret it whatsoever. You know why is it expensive? Because they can. They can charge that much because there's not a lot of people that work in this business. Right, exactly. Exactly.

All right. Guess what? We are going to bring our guest, the CEO and founder of Hello Prenup, to talk more about all of this. Muhammad Ali, George Foreman, James Brown, B.B. King, Miriam Akiba. I shook up the world. James Brown said, say it loud. And the kid said, I'm black and I'm proud. Black boxing stars and black music royalty together in the heart of Zaire, Africa.

Three days of music and then the boxing event. What was going on in the world at the time made this fight as important that anything else is going on on the planet. My grandfather laid on the ropes and let George Foreman basically just punch himself out. Welcome to Rumble, the story of a world in transformation. The 60s and prior to that, you couldn't call a person black. And how we arrived at this peak moment. Ah!

I don't have to be what you want me to be. We all came from the continent of Africa. Listen to Rumble, Ali, Foreman, and the Soul of 74 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In 1982, Atari players had one thing on their minds. Sword Quest. This wasn't just a new game. Atari promised $150,000 in prizes to four finalists.

But the prizes disappeared. And what started as a video game promotion became one of the most controversial moments in 80s pop culture. I just don't believe they exist. I mean, my reaction, shock and awe. That sword was amazing. It was so beautiful.

I'm Jamie Loftus. Join me this spring for The Legend of Sword Quest, a podcast about the fall of Atari and the disappearing Sword Quest prizes. We'll follow the quest for lost treasure across four decades. It's almost like a metaphor for the industry and Atari itself in a way. Listen to The Legend of Sword Quest on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16, 2017, was murdered. There are crooks everywhere you look now. The situation is desperate. My name is Manuel Delia. I am one of the hosts of Crooks Everywhere, a podcast that unhurts the plot to murder a one-woman Wikileaks. Daphne exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state.

And she paid the ultimate price. Listen to Crooks everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello. Hi, Julia. So nice to see you both. Kelly, I also love your hair. Hello, Preenup. Hello. Preenup, how are you? That's what we're just going to call you from now on, Preenup. Forget the Julia. Call me whatever you want, Kelly. Is it hello, Preenup, question mark or exclamation point or nothing?

It's nothing, but I think the point is great. I think so too. Yeah. It's like, hello, prenup, call me anytime. Yeah. Exactly. Visit helloprenup.com anytime. I love that. I love that. Julia, so we're talking all things prenup, obviously. Cheryl and I have both had some incredible journeys with our own prenups, which have been... I'm so happy that I...

you know, created prenup and Cheryl is for her past divorce. Why are these prenups so expensive?

Well, they don't have to be. You know, I think that number one, if you're going the traditional route and you're each hiring independent attorneys, that's fantastic. Obviously, that's not the least expensive way to go about it. Right. Attorneys have high hourly rates. And a lot of times, if you don't walk into that engagement with an understanding of what you're looking for, there's going to be a lot of negotiation.

through a service like HelloPrenup, you know, we have flat rate pricing. We have flat rate pricing for the prenup alone. And then when you add on attorneys in 45 states, right? So there are ways to get a prenup that are affordable and accessible to all. And that's, you know, kind of the goal of my company and mission. What does that look like? What's accessible mean?

like money wise range. Yeah. So it's $599 to use the platform. And then for representation with an attorney, it's $699. So ostensibly a couple can get a full prenup with two lawyers for under $2,000. Awesome. Wow. Um, what is the difference between a prenup and a postnup and our postnups? Yeah. What are postnups? Are they, do they really work?

Yeah, absolutely. The prenup should have worked alone, right? Well, sometimes people don't get a prenup and then they get a post. Oh, got it. Say more. Exactly. So, you know, post-ups are fantastic. Um, the main difference is a prenup has to be signed before you get married. If you do not get a prenup or you don't, you start the prenup process, but you don't sign it before you get married, you can still get a post-up. Um,

If you have the option, a prenup is definitely more desirable. They're upheld more. They're more likely to be enforced. Some states are questionable on whether or not they'll enforce post-nups, whereas I think the vast majority of states will enforce prenups. And one of the things that's so great, though, about post-nups is let's say you've been married for a period of time and you don't have a pre you didn't get a prenup.

You can get a post up. You can realign and make sure that you're both, you know, you have the same expectations. Sometimes things change in marriages too, right? Let's say this is a second marriage and you didn't get a prenup, but one of you starts a business. Well,

let's sit down and talk about how that business should be held. Is that ours? If we get a divorce in the future, or is that mine? Post-nup allows you to reassess and realign. Or if like all of a sudden your partner makes more money than you. Yeah. Are they allowed to do that? Like, can they,

Well, absolutely. And I think that it's if life changes or, you know, if, you know, you have kids and one party decides to stay home, that's an opportunity to say, all right, now I'm staying home. I'm not earning an income. So I want to make sure that we reassess what we originally agreed to in our prenup where everything was going to be yours. I need to be

that I'm protected. Right. And so that's where, you know, a post-nup, which is in some states, it depends on which state you're in, is a modification to a prenup can be really beneficial. What should be in a prenup? Well, you can contract almost anything you want. You can't contract to children. So you can't contract. Dogs? Yes, you can have... Succulents? Yes.

I've never seen anyone contract. Is that true? Is that true? What I said earlier about if they plant a succulent in California, are you in California? I'm not in California, but hello, prenup operates in California, 45 States. Is it true that if they plant a succulent, like let's say I own the property and

and we did not get a prenup. Is it true that they can, after a certain amount of years, that the person who planted the succulent, your partner, can actually fight and say that this is his property? I think the point that that example is trying to make is that they now have earned some interest in that property. I think without a prenup, what you're doing is you're leaving it up to chance. Correct. Cheryl calls bullshit. And they favor the person who doesn't make as much money.

I really believe that. What about dogs? Fur babies are the rage and everybody is like... My ex and I got in a huge fight about it. It was crazy. I wish it was in the pre-nap, but he got me the dog when we were already married. Pet clauses are really, really popular. A pet clause. Okay. Yeah, you can decide in your pre-nap.

Pet custody, you can decide who's paying for what for the pet. And I think just aligning on those expectations is really important. What I always like to remind people is like, I always hear all like prenups aren't romantic. Like it means you're planning for divorce. Either is childbirth.

Exactly. I like to remind people. True story. I know. I was waiting for you to be like, true story. I've never had a child, but I can only assume. I've had two. I've had a child and I totally agree. Childbirth is not romantic. Yes.

But, you know, neither is the fact that if you don't have a prenup, you still have a prenup because it's just state legislature that is deciding how your assets get divided in divorce or death. So why are you leaving that up to chance? Why are you leaving that up to, in your case, Cheryl, the state of California, right? Why are we not deciding what is best for us as a couple before we get married? Is it protocol? Like I have my attorney advised that I get an attorney for my ex. Is that?

Something that's like protocol or not protocol, but like, is that normal? Yeah.

Yeah, I think it's completely normal. And I think it's very important to get legal advice. In certain states, you're required to have an attorney for certain things. Like in California, if you want to waive or modify spousal support, you must have an attorney. Other states, you must have an attorney for, you know, again, certain conditions. And I think it's always advisable. Like if you're entering into a prenup and you are not sure what the default law would be if you didn't enter into the prenup, you don't know what those state requirements are.

you should get legal advice. What about infidelity? How does that play out? No one cares.

Nobody cares about infidelity anymore. It's like, the person involved cares. The person who was being cheated on definitely cares, but it's not part of the prenup. Unfortunately, it's not law. People are like, oh, he cheated on me. It's like, no, no, that's not okay. No, it's not okay. Can you do an infidelity clause? Yes. Like it's not in New York, but you couldn't, you can't. It's not in California either. It depends on what state you're in. And,

Infidelity clauses can be included in certain states. What I like to remind people is often like a prenup is just as much an emotional document as it is a legal one, right? So just the mere act of including an infidelity clause in there, it means you had that conversation and you said, look, I'm okay with this or I'm not okay with this. But isn't that just morals, values, and beliefs when you're marrying? And like, that's just like an obvious, like...

I mean, what would an infidelity clause look like exactly? Well, let's back up to your morals and beliefs, right? That's point of a pre. He cheated on me. He's a jerk. He gets nothing. How about that? It's important to get out. Can we add for a lot of cut their penis off or is that okay in the clause? No, that is illegal and you can't be like,

be like Lorena. That's a hard no line in the sand. Yeah. I mean, you, you can define infidelity and you can define, um, a financial penalty for infidelity. Um, it's not enforceable in all States. Um, but yeah, they're very popular clauses, I think. So if you cheat on me, you get $10,000. So hello, that's going to be way more than that girl. I would hope. Yeah.

Meaning like, you have to cut off one testicle or you have to give me a million dollars. This was like, you choose. I think, I think a lot of times. Here's the succulent. Yeah.

Sorry. People are often afraid, you know, they're afraid to talk about a prenup because they feel like it's scary. It's scary. Yeah. And I and I understand why. I mean, Cheryl, you've had one when you were going into this process. Like, how did you approach it with your fiance at the time?

I mean, there was no right way to do it. And to be honest, I wish I would have had... I wish we would have discussed this more in therapy when we were in therapy. But yeah, this was a discussion that also my parents had for them as well. Like this was important. And again, this shouldn't have gotten... It shouldn't... I mean, of course it's emotional. Absolutely. And I have to say when it was time to...

sign everything. It wasn't necessarily the easiest, like with, we had someone there obviously to, um, what are they called again? When, when they're observing, they have to be there to watch. Yeah. And it was quite like intense, you know? Um, but, uh, yeah, there's just the sooner, the better and try to talk about it before you hand them the prenup. Ideally. Yeah.

I think too, like, you know, my, my father, he passed away a year and a half ago. And I think that if my father had met my ex, um,

which they didn't, he would have said, A, what are your intentions with my daughter? Not to sound like all Jane Austen, but what are your intentions? And if you do have any intentions, you're going to sign a prenup because I am the daughter of a lawyer. And I think that would have probably been a better time. I was the daughter of a lawyer. Yeah. So that would have probably been... But when... Julie, how do you...

How do you go? I mean, I did not talk about it with my therapist. I literally just went to this amazing matrimonial lawyer in New York who is unbelievable. And she was such a maternal figure and was like, I'm very, she was very, very worried about me. Very worried. And she was like, here's, we have to lay this out. And she's like, if anything happened to you, he could get

all this money and your kids, you know, it would be, it wouldn't be good. And I got really, really freaked out. And I was, I, I like, I literally turned me off the minute that I found out that I wasn't being provided and protected that I would, would have potentially been exploited. And so what are your thoughts? What are your, how could I have, how could I have changed that? How could I have,

Not saying that I want to go back or do anything, but like, like I made a mistake. I'd handled it the wrong way. So how could I have like, you know, for the, for everyone out there for like the young, you know, millennials at 47%, they're getting prenups. Like how do you have that conversation in a way that's like palatable? Yeah. Okay. Well, I would say 30%.

Third date, second glass of wine. Third date? Wow. Third date, second glass of wine. Depends on your age, right? Like depends on what you're looking for. Because like, listen, when I eventually date, I'm in my, I'm 40. Like, yes, absolutely third date. But for people in their 20s, same. Yeah. No, I mean, I think it's the sentiment, right? You're having a conversation about what you want out of life.

I mean, if you're in your 20s and you're just kind of dating for sport and you are not intending to get married, you're not serious, right? It's obviously a very different conversation and you should wait until you're ready. You're in that space in life. But I do think that, you know, if you are dating because you want to find your person and you want to get married, you're

especially as women, I mean, why should we be embarrassed to bring up the conversation? Right. I think it's like, it's kind of like, I was scared for me about his reaction. Like he was, you know, and that wasn't so much about like,

Scared. I also wonder, I wish I would have done this. I wish I would have educated myself about the state I was living in and what that required even before. Like what? Like, let me just read through this textbook of information or have someone explain it to me. First of all, what a prenup is, why I would want to get a prenup, what that exactly means and why.

what does it mean for the state of California? Like, I think that is so important to educate yourself first. Cause I had, I'm still finding out things that I never knew. And that's exactly what this podcast is all about is people looking for love. And that's what we're trying to do. We're trying to educate and, you know,

show that there's there are solutions and that you know you don't have to be worried about protecting yourself and you know you can provide you know it's like they always say like men are supposed to provide and protect well they haven't for me so I'm gonna do it for myself regardless of the gender you have to protect yourself

Yeah. And I think information is power, right? Yes. You know, the fear of the unknown is oftentimes the issue when it comes to the prenups, especially when you're talking, Cheryl, about state law and educating yourself and really understanding what goes into a prenup and what the process is. I mean, one of the reasons we started Hello Prenup was because we wanted to offer free information so that anybody who

could go to the website, choose their state and read all about it. Right. There's no barrier to entry. And I think it's really important to educate yourself, but also to feel empowered by the process. The process should be one that is, you know, you're both participating. It's not one person serving a prenup on the other. You are each protecting your interests. I think in the case where there's family money,

You know, there's a lot of pressure from parents, but I think that's an opportunity in the conversation of bringing up a prenup to say, this is really important for my family. Right. And you're relieving the pressure from yourself. I think also, though, that families should have their own trust. Right. Like so that they're protected.

in general, right? Well, sometimes trust don't take a second. So it takes a while to put a trust together. And that's actually what happened to me too. That's another reason I had to get a prenup. Got it. So the prenups are not just for the person, they're also for the relationship. Can you just talk a little bit more about that, Julia? Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. So a prenup is an opportunity. It's an opportunity to have those life conversations and set yourself up by building that foundation. A prenup is an opportunity to have those life conversations. So depending on where you are in life, it's like, do we want to have kids? Like, do we want to retire at 40 and like travel the world? Do we want to white picket fence? Yeah.

Or, you know, if you have children from a prior marriage, are you going to financially support them? And what does that look like for our marriage? So it's an opportunity to have these really important life conversations. And I think it's also important to remember that.

All marriages end. They either end in death or divorce. Nothing's forever. Nothing's forever. So let's be really sober about that fact. Yeah, we're taking a time bomb. We're all going to die, folks. Sorry. So do you have any statistics about prenups helping people not get divorced? Or do you have any kind of statistics that can...

Yeah. Help us out with that. I think one that's really important is 47% of millennials who are married or engaged have a prenup. I know. I said that. That's crazy. And what that tells me is like millennials are getting married a little bit later in life, right? They're getting married in their early 30s. By the time they get married, they have assets to protect. I'm a millennial. Yeah.

Amazing. Me too. You look like a millennial though, Kelly. I act like one. Oh, really? What is that supposed to mean? Young spirited, young spirited.

You have assets to protect. Maybe you have debt, right? Maybe you started a business. Yeah, that's like all the school debt. Right. Right. It's really important to, you know, to pay attention to those facts and protect yourself. And I think that millennials get that. And they're also looking to like not do what their parents did. Twenty four percent of millennials don't.

have divorced parents, right? We've seen what divorce does to our families. Like, let's not repeat that in our own marriages. Can you name just three qualities as to what happens, like three things that are just not, that could happen if you don't have a prenup? Just scare people, please.

Well, you could lose half your assets. You could be responsible for half your partner's debt. You could have to split your inheritance. Oh, hell no. Yeah. Hell no. People don't think about the inheritance piece. They're like, oh, it's inheritance. It must be mine. Well, no, no, no. No, it could be considered part of the marital estate for sure. Get it pre-dopped.

That's right. I like what Julia said too. And I think the number, the 47% is such a big number. But I really believe that not only are women and men getting married a little bit older, but that they are coming from a lot of

you know, single parents and being raised by single parents. And I think they just don't want to have that happen again. And do you think the prenups are helping us stay married longer? Or do you think it's just kind of like, no, I'm just, I'm just, I was just kidding. I mean, I didn't, he didn't sign it. So I am not, I'm not even in this conversation. My marriage was two days long. So I don't know.

No, it was two years, two years, two years, three years, two years, two years. Who's counting? Yeah, I mean, I do. I do. Because when you think about it, foundationally, you are setting yourself up to talk about the tough stuff before you get married. When people get engaged, they're all about the wedding, right? They're focused on the flowers and the bridesmaids dresses and the guest list and all of those things that like over the course of a marriage are just irrelevant.

And so if you have a prenup, you're sitting down and you're intentionally, consciously having these conversations about...

what do we want? What are our life goals? Like, how do we want to split finances? Do we want to have a joint bank account? If I start a business, is that my business? How are we going to fund that business? And I think that is really important. And especially if you're on your first marriage, like, are we going to have kids? And like, is one of us going to stay home and care for those children? These are all really important topics. I think Kelly, in your situation too, where you're,

I know you talked about how your fans, they wouldn't sign the prenup. I think that's such a red flag. The fact that he didn't want to sign the prenup tells you you're not aligned. You're not on the same page. What is he really in it for? Right. And so I think we need to view prenups as being this opportunity of alignment, right?

That's another time for a bigger conversation. We were definitely not aligned. Julia Rogers from Hello Prenup. Call her anytime. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Thank you. I'm ready to find love. I'm kidding. Yeah, exactly. What's your cell? Give us your digits. On Hello Prenup, do you have like a questionnaire? I think it would also help for people to literally the person who's giving the prenup or wanting the person to sign the prenup should have like what you just went through, like top 20 questions to ask even before you hire a prenup attorney. I think we need to make this game clear.

Kelly, you know how they have those like love card games or like emotional games. Like we need to do questions to ask before even putting a ring on it. Like for real. We have quizzes. We have all of it. We have questionnaires. Oh yeah. That's awesome. Love it. That's helpful. I love it. All of the articles, all the information. That's great. Thank you, Julia. Thank you so much for having me. This was so much fun. It was great to chat with you both. Bye. Thanks, Julia. Bye. Bye.

Oh my God, Cheryl, isn't she so great? She's great. She's so great. She has such good energy. She does. I just love that she's... Honestly, I bow down to any attorneys whatsoever that have to deal with this because this ain't fun.

But also just like the way that she's communicating. And I mean, at the price point that, you know, you can be transparent and be safe and protect and provide for yourself and also be in love. There's nothing wrong with having both. And like I said, you have to separate the two. Like money is not love whatsoever. Right. Right.

Thank you, Julia, for coming on the podcast and answering all of our questions about prenups. It was a lot of great information for the listeners to hear. And I hope if you knew nothing about prenups that you're leaving the conversation with a little more knowledge. Cheryl, this was so great getting to chat with you. I know the listeners are going to get so much advice from both of us as they're looking for love.

So if you guys are wanting some relationship or dating advice, or if you're single and ready to find love again, call us at 1-844-4IDOPOD. That's 844-443-6763. Or email us at idopod at iheartradio.com. Follow us on Instagram at idopart2pod.

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