I Choose...Leslie Grossman
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Hi, this is Jenny Garth from the I Choose Me podcast. If you're managing a challenging mental condition, weekly therapy can sometimes feel like it's not enough. You may be looking for a way to spend more focus time on you. That's where Amend Mental Health Treatment Center comes in. I recently took a tour at Amend in beautiful Malibu, California, and the facility is so gorgeous and serene.

The dedicated team of doctors and therapists with deep clinical expertise were amazing. Designed to give you the time and space you need to have that breakthrough. They have two unique locations in Malibu that surround you in natural beauty and pure calm. Find out more at amendtreatment.com slash start.

Hey, everyone. Jake Storielli here from John Boy Media. I want to tell you about my podcast, Wake and Jake. I've been a sports nut my whole life, and there's nothing I love more than talking about it. If you're a sports fan, Wake and Jake is the place for you. Covering all the hot topics from the sports world, a lot of baseball, a lot of postseason coverage, mock drafts, awards, guest interviews, all of it.

New episodes every Monday and Wednesday. Come watch along on the Wake and Jake YouTube channel or listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everyone. This is Jimmy O'Brien from Jomboy Media. I want to quickly tell you about my podcast. It's called Jimmy's 3000.

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No topic is off limits or too small. Bad umpires, great pitcher-catcher duos, new rules, old rules, three things that I want to talk about. Listen to Jimmy's Three Things on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, I'm Jacqueline Thomas, the host of a brand new Black Effect original series, Black Lit, the podcast for diving deep into the rich world of Black literature. Black Lit is for the page turners, for those who listen to audiobooks while running errands or at the

In 1982, Atari players had one game on their minds, Sword Quest.

because the company had promised $150,000 in prizes to four finalists. But the prizes disappeared, leading to one of the biggest controversies in 80s pop culture. I'm Jamie Loftus. Join me this spring for The Legend of Swordquest. We'll follow the quest for lost treasure across four decades. Listen to The Legend of Swordquest on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Garth.

Hi, everyone. Welcome to the I Choose Me podcast. This podcast is all about the choices we make and where they lead us.

So today, we're going to talk to someone very exciting. My guest is an actress that is literally on two of the biggest Netflix shows right now, Monsters, The Lyle and Eric Menendez Story, and Nobody Wants This. You know her from her roles in Popular, Nip-Tuck, multiple seasons of American Horror Story, but I

But I know her from our days on the show, What I Like About You. Please welcome Leslie Grossman to the I Choose Me podcast. I'm so happy to see you. You're not as happy as me. We just saw each other. Happenstance brought us together in an airport. I have no idea what city we were in. New York. Okay, New York. Great. We had been on the same flight and we didn't even know it. But I don't understand how I didn't see you. That doesn't actually make any sense. And also-

Really the scariest thing that can happen happen where I'm standing there and I heard my name, Leslie, and you just don't know what you're turning into when you turn. And I was so happy it was you. And I got to see Lola who, you know, that to me, like I could cry even thinking about it just because you would bring Lola to work when she was an infant and then a toddler and she's the most beautiful baby and is now,

the most like stunning ethereal, like angel. I mean, she really, her whole vibe, she's like an angel. So happy to see you too.

She's like a doll face and you just have, you have the best girls, the nicest girls. And you know, my daughter and your daughter are friendly, which is so cute because they totally did that. I know. Your Goldie is friends with my Fiona. They're both about the same age. And how do these kids these days know each other without anybody else involved? Like, I guess it's the social media. It is. It's my daughter knows every single child, her age in her grade,

Freshman in college, the year below. I mean, like they all know. In every school. That's right. That's what's so crazy is I'm from Los Angeles. I knew everyone in my grade and like two kids from another school. Now everybody knows everybody. And I think that is...

But then I think it's also cute and it's exactly why they're friends. So in that respect, I support that. I can imagine having to know everybody in all the places. It's hard enough to be a teenager and to be a girl and then having all that, whatever. That's a different story for another time. Anyway, it's so nice to see you. And it was so fun to get to run into you. And you also look like so beautiful coming off this like flight. I was like, that's annoying. Why do you look so fresh? Stop it. I was wearing a big hat. That's why.

So cute. Wait, you dropped a bomb on me right there in the airport baggage claim. Yes. And you told me, can I say?

You know, what's funny is I actually have not spoken about it yet, but you can say, I don't want to, I don't want to ruin your moment. You can say, no, I am engaged, which is so fun. You are engaged. I am. So that's a wild thing that I didn't see coming. Not that I didn't see it coming with this person. I just didn't see any of this next chapter of my life coming. And yeah, who does though? Oh my God. I'm so happy for you. So sweet. Thank you. I'm happy for me too. He's a wonderful person. And it's,

It's funny that this is the first time I'm talking about it publicly, Jen. Oh my God. And it's so funny because I've known you for many, many years. You know me in my earlier iterations. So I said, you know, we get to see each other how we are now. I mean, it's a trip to be

The age that I am. Yes. And me. This is like the best ever start to this amazing second chapter of your life because you're going to be an empty nester before you know it. I mean, it's not. You were smart because you had three kids. You delayed the pain. You delayed the pain. I only have one. That's going to be hard. It's been terrible. And, you know, it's so annoying to her because I'll just like we'll be having dinner and I'll just stare at her. And she's like, could you stop?

staring at me and I'm like, I'm just trying to drink you in. Oh my God. I can't imagine having you as a mom. I would be laughing all the time at you, not with you, at you. Yes. And I think Goldie would agree with that. There is a lot of laughing at me. That is fair. But it's, you know what I was thinking, you know, when they're little and it's so hard, like you're in it and they're like four and you have so much going on and you're so tired and you're like, I won't make it to bedtime today. I was

I would pay so much money to be one hour with Goldie at four years old. Oh my God. I say that all the time. I would rather go back to the diapers in a heartbeat. A heartbeat. And every cliche that everyone says, and you know, this is the truth. It's like, what?

How she's my daughter's about to be 18 next month. Like what? I mean, look, you sent me that picture. Jenny sent me a picture of Boldy over. I mean, they were, I don't know, six months old, nine months. I couldn't tell from that picture. They were infants. And I remember that day that felt like 15 minutes ago.

I know we're just sitting on the couch holding our babies. I remember going to your house and it was so cute and they were all playing together. And I remember Lola was reading to us. Like, I remember it so clearly. And I also remember looking at Lola and being like, God, Goldie, when is Goldie ever going to be that age? That seems like a hundred years.

She was like four. Yeah. Now Goldie's texting me like, I won't be home for dinner and who knows when you'll see me. I know it's such a trip. It's parenthood. Motherhood is such a trip. It is. It is. Anyway. Yes, it is a very lucky and wonderful next chapter. But I mean, look, my whole life got reorganized around my 50th birthday and everything got thrown up into the air and I,

It sort of fell to the ground and I was like very intentional about deciding what I was going to pick up and what I was going to, that doesn't come with me anymore. So at 50, you could, that's when you got a divorce. Well, I, yeah. I mean, I guess we broke up when I was 48, 49 ish, but 50, yeah.

A few things happened, and I don't want to get too intense right away. You didn't even ask this. But within a very short span, I was married for almost 21 years. That ended. And by the way, I don't know if you know this. Kids love it when you get divorced. Wait, what? Oh, I didn't know if you know. Oh, you don't know that? I know it in certain circumstances. I think I know what you're talking about. Yeah, my daughter did not love it. And it was also the first month of the pandemic shut down, and she was 13 years old. So the timing of that...

Was as bad as it could have been. And, and then pretty shortly after that, and this is really like, I'm really getting dark. Sister-in-law died. This was my brother's wife died. So close. You were. She was my sister. I mean, it's devastating in ways because when it's a, an out of order death and a young person who should never have died from a terrible illness and they have young, it's just awful, but you know, you have a choice. And when all of this stuff happens, you know,

I just decided that I was going to have to be brave, that I hadn't been brave in the past. And I regretted that. And I decided I was going to be brave. And I felt like I had a very hard reset. And also for my sister-in-law, she would have been like, what are you doing here?

Get up, go do something amazing, like get it going. So she was actually like an incredible motivator for this next phase of my life. I love that, that you were able to take, you know, losing her and turn that into something that motivates you. And like the connection didn't end just because she died. It didn't happen immediately. I mean, you have to understand there was a period where I was like at the depths of going through the divorce. Oh my God.

And it was like, oh, okay, I'm going to look from a car crash to like someone getting murdered in front of me. It was just rough, rough period. But yeah.

You know, I have to say I had the greatest support from my family and friends. I couldn't have had more support, but amazing therapist and the therapist, even with all that support from everybody else around me, it was my therapist who pretty much saved my life, who was like, yeah, you're going to have to get up now. Like we're done. And now you got to get out. And now wait, how long have you been seeing this therapist? So long. I love her so long.

Oh my God. Can you text me her name? Oh my God. She's so brilliant. I mean, I would say I've been seeing her for the better part of 20 years and not consistently, but what's so nice about that is she knows me from a long time ago, but she was incredibly helpful. Well, I just really launched into this. Yeah. Okay. So thank you for being on the show. Bye-bye. I've covered death.

Divorce. My therapist. My daughter's in college. What else do you want to get into? This is what it's like when we talk, though. Like, I'm right back on the set with you immediately. That's great. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. We just go for it.

Hi, this is Jenny Garth from the I Choose Me podcast. If you're managing a challenging mental condition, weekly therapy can sometimes feel like it's not enough. You may be looking for a way to spend more focus time on you. That's where Amend Mental Health Treatment Center comes in. I recently took a tour at Amend in beautiful Malibu, California, and the facility is so gorgeous and serene.

The dedicated team of doctors and therapists with deep clinical expertise were amazing. Designed to give you the time and space you need to have that breakthrough. They have two unique locations in Malibu that surround you in natural beauty and pure calm. Find out more at amendtreatment.com slash start. Hey everyone, Jake Storielli here from John Boy Media. I want to tell you about my podcast, Wake and Jake. It's your go-to spot

for anything and everything sports. Baseball, football, basketball, hockey, golf, college, whatever's hot in the street, we're talking about it on Wake and Jake. So if you're a diehard fan or looking for the latest buzz, we've got you covered, no matter your favorite sport. We're breaking it down with the passion that'll make you feel like you're in the stands with us. Plus, we've got a bunch of guests, Foolish Bailey, Jolly Olive, Chris Rose, and more. Mock drafts, rankings, whatever you want.

It's the sports world. And come on and join our friends in the Wake and Jake family. You will not regret it. So new episodes Monday and Wednesday. You can watch along on the Wake and Jake YouTube channel or listen to Wake and Jake on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

And it ends up.

I was wrong the whole time. So that's something you can get in on. Use Jimmy's Three Things podcast to stay up to date on Major League Baseball and to make you just a smidge smarter than your friend who's a baseball fan. You listen to me and then you go tell him, hey, I know this and you don't. So I make you smarter than your friends. That's what Jimmy's Three Things is all about. Listen to Jimmy's Three Things on iHeartRadio app,

Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can also find it on the talking baseball YouTube channel and new episodes drop every Tuesday. I felt too seen, um, dragged, uh,

I'm NK, and this is Basket Case. So I basically had what back in the day they would call a nervous breakdown. I was crying and I was inconsolable. It was just very big, sudden swaps of different meds. What is wrong with me? Oh, look at you giving me therapy, girl.

Finally, a show for the mentally ill girlies. On Basket Case, I talk to people about what happens when what we call mental health is shaped by the conditions of the world we live in. Because if you haven't noticed, we are experiencing some kind of conditions that are pretty hard to live with. But if you struggle to cope, the society that created the conditions in the first place will tell you there's something wrong with you. And it will call you a basket case.

Listen to Basket Case every Tuesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Dr. Laurie Santos, host of the Happiness Lab podcast. As the U.S. elections approach, it can feel like we're angrier and more divided than ever. But in a new, hopeful season of my podcast, I'm Dr. Laurie Santos.

I'll share what the science really shows, that we're surprisingly more united than most people think. We all know something is wrong in our culture, in our politics, and that we need to do better and that we can do better. With the help of Stanford psychologist Jamil Zaki. It's really tragic. If cynicism were a pill, it'd be a poison. We'll see that our fellow humans, even those we disagree with, are more generous than we assume.

My assumption, my feeling, my hunch is that a lot of us are actually looking for a way to disagree and still be in relationships with each other. All that on the Happiness Lab. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

I just, sometimes I like to start at the beginning because I like to get to know you and I like everybody that's listening to get to know you from the beginning a little bit. So let's rewind for just a second. You grew up in LA. Yes. Did you always want to be an actress? I mean...

I think it was something that always appealed to me. You have to understand I grew up in a very nerdy Jewish family. Tell me. Oh, my God. My parents were like intellectual dorks. I say that with all the love in the world. Like just not – had no interest in pop culture, didn't know anything. Like I always knew somebody was enormously famous if my mother knew who they were. I was like, okay, this has gotten to my mom, which means this person –

It's a big deal. Yes, exactly. I was not allowed to watch television. Like the only stuff we watched was like Walter Cronkite and election returns and, you know, things like that. So it was they sort of assumed, well, you'll go be an attorney or you'll be an architect or you'll be a teacher.

social worker or a rabbi, which is what my mother begged me to do when I told her I was officially going to try to be an actor with tears in her eyes, is try to be a rabbi. It's like performing, just what she... Kind of, yeah. So it was a thought in my head, but not something I thought was a possibility or realistic. Nobody in my family was in the business. I thought it was an attorney who worked

in some ways, sometimes with entertainment, but he wasn't in the business in any way.

And so I had a very normal upbringing. So they shouldn't have brought me up in Los Angeles and sent me to Crossroads. It's their fault. That was their mistake, right? Okay. I know you've talked about this before and I know I know about it, but I don't know if you're comfortable talking about that you were adopted. Oh, yes. It's my favorite thing to talk about. I love when you talk about it because you ended up with the most beautiful, perfect situation ever.

And your life just was amazing. And I just, it gives everyone out there so much hope because you were adopted out of foster care, right? I was. And how old were you? I was only 10 weeks old. So it wasn't like I spent a long time, but look, I was in foster care in LA County in the early seventies. It was not like it is today. There was no private adoption then. But you know, first of all, November, which is coming up as national adoption month. And so I always like to talk about this stuff. So I love that you brought it up.

But the reason I like to talk about it is, you know, particularly when I was growing up, adoption was discussed in this like very maudlin, sad way. And, you know, there was this book. And look, don't come at me. I don't want to get your emails about this. If it helped you, great. God bless. But there was a book that came out many, many years ago called The Adoption Wound.

And essentially states you're fucked. If you're adopted, you're a mess. You got this horrible hole in your heart. It'll never be filled. And it's why you have all these problems and you can blame everything on you. Wait, wait, wait. Was the book trying to help you or just label you? I think it was trying to help you, but it didn't help you. It never, that never resonated with me. I never had a moment where I looked in the mirror and felt like there's something missing. Um,

You know, it's very funny, Jenny. My birth family found me on Instagram. Really? I was going to ask you if you'd ever dug in there. He did. And it was my birth sister's daughter. So my birth niece, I guess is what you would call her, messaged me on Instagram and was like, hi, I think you are my mom's sister. And, you know, we went and got DNA tests and she was in fact my sister and I have met her and we are in contact. And I have to say,

She is the loveliest person. She is so nice. She has wonderful daughters. She's a grandmother. Like she is fantastic. And I'm so happy to have met her, but I didn't feel like, and this is not, I'm sure she probably felt the same way about me. I didn't feel like no,

Now I get it. And I, and this hole has been filled. I felt like this is a very nice person who's a stranger to me, who we have incredible connection. That means something, but it's,

And I think that's great. And I have only the best of feelings about her, but you know, my family's my family. So, and then, you know, I adopted my daughter. So it did. Oh my God. Okay. Stop for a second. One day we were at work and you didn't have a baby. And then one day you came and you had a baby. I was like, what is happening? Yeah.

Well, it seems so fast for me. I don't know. It was fast for me too, Jenny. That is so cute. Yes. It was a very ridiculous thing where we actually found out about her the day that she was born and she was in our home the next day. It was wild. I mean, it was crazy. The circumstances were bananas and very, very last minute.

and overwhelming. And I'm the kind of person that like, when I get like a new handbag, first of all, I researched that handbag for like about six months. And when I get it, I like leave it in my closet to get used to the new environment and like make sure it's comfortable with all its friends. Like that's a handbag, a child, like with no warning. So you're saying you're a planner. I'm a little bit of a planner and

Speaking of my sister-in-law, what she did was I have a niece who's three years older than my daughter. My sister-in-law stayed up all night long washing all her baby clothes, getting her bassinet ready. And the next day I literally had everything I basically needed to have a newborn baby in the house. So it was a complete last minute surprise, ridiculous thing that happened.

is like the best thing that's ever happened. And if you know my daughter, I mean, she was meant to be my, my lady. So it's very Goldie. It's very cool to be adopted and adopt. I love that I get to have that full circle. That's really, really powerful. It is. And also, you know, it's so funny because I've met so many people that have like fertility issues or whatever. And

they'll just say to me, adoption's not an option. They're like, it's just, it's too unknown for me and I'm comfortable and I don't know. Somebody once said to me, I'll never forget it. They were like, you know, you just, you don't know what you're going to get. As if having your own biological child, you know what you're going to get. Did Jeffrey Dahmer's parents know what they were going to get? I don't think so. Good point. It's just such a ridiculous thing to me. And, you know,

I'm not like a hyper religious person, but I do think it's sort of like the closest thing I've ever experienced to a religious experience is having that connection with a person who is not, that didn't come from my body, but feels so much like my person. So. Yeah.

You two are so alike. It's wild. He hates hearing that. Oh my God. I mean, I hate to look completely the same. Like you look like you gave birth to her a hundred percent. Isn't that crazy? And the funny thing is that I wouldn't have cared if,

whatever, you know, my kid ended up looking like I had no preference. I didn't care. This just literally, she kind of fell from the sky into our lap. So it all is an incredible, wonderful thing. And you just don't ever know what's around. You don't ever know. You don't ever know. Oh my God. I know that you lost your father too. I lost my father. I know what a pain that is.

Oh, and I loved your dad. The little time I got to spend with him. Your dad was your man. Like he was your dude, you know? And when you lose your

Dude, it is a brutal. It's real. And it doesn't matter. My dad was 84. He was very ill. It doesn't matter. Like it does not matter. And you know, how long has it been since you lost your dad? More than 10 years. Yeah. But it doesn't get any, I mean, it does like the trauma of it sort of slowly subsides, but like, it's been a year for you. Where would you say that you are in your grief process? Yeah.

Wow. Jenny, you ask such good questions. So, you know, my dad was very ill and particularly the last year was so awful and he was suffering. And so by extension, suffering. So I think

I would never say that I felt like relief that my dad was gone, but I felt relief that he was no longer in pain. And also what my mother endured because she was the single most dedicated caretaker I've ever seen in my life. And her entire life existed to take care of my father. And so there was a part of me that felt like he is no longer in terrible pain. My mother is not having, I mean, she never slept. She never ate. I mean, it was terrible.

But what I realized was that sort of relief was almost like an anesthesia that it kind of hung around for a little bit. And then that started to wear off. And then I was like,

Well, that's horrible that that happened to him and that now he's gone. So I feel I had a little bit of a freak out on the day of the anniversary of his death where I got really emotional. But, you know, I'm trying to lean into being really, really, really grateful for what I had. That's what I'm trying to lean into. Also, when your parents die, it's inevitable that you're like, oh, who's who's next in line?

That's me. I'm next. Well, that's really dark and I'm

No, it won't be a very long time. But the point is that it's- It does. You have to face mortality in a completely different way. Very confronting. I don't like it. But every single person on the face of the earth- Going to go through it. Well, that's right. Life comes for everybody. And so life came for me kind of hard, very close together. But what are you going to do, Jenny? Yeah. I mean, I can relate. I had just come off like kind of a high point. And then my daughter, Lola, actually got very, very ill.

And this was when, yeah, I think we were already done with the show when she was five years old. And I thought she was going to die. Like Peter and I thought we were losing her. And then right after that, right after she started to get better, my dad passed away. And then, you know, just those bad things, they kind of keep hitting you.

While you're down. I don't know what it is about that. They do come close together, I feel like, in a weird way. That sort of happens in life. It's almost like a portal gets opened and then all this shitty stuff happens. I'm always scared when one bad thing happens because then I'm like, oh my God, what's next? Yeah. It usually happens in threes. That's what they say. Okay. Well...

we're done with that now. Okay. Let's be over it. I'm sorry for your loss. I know how much he meant to you. And I'm just really sorry. I appreciate that. Cause I know, you know what it feels like. So, and it, and it does mean something when somebody who's like, you know, really loved their dad and really had a really special and good connection with their dad that when someone will say to me, I, I understand. I'm like, I know you do. And that makes it better. It does. Let

Let me ask you one more question about this. I found that it didn't, well, I always feel this way with death, with someone that I love, that it doesn't feel real for so long. Like I, it just, I feel like I'm going to see him again or the phone's going to ring. It's going to be them. And I, I feel like I'm, there's that period of time where it just, I don't accept it. Did you experience that? I think, first of all, I think that is such a like relatable thing to say because

I felt my dad was such an outsized personality and he took up such big space in my life. He was the single biggest influence on me. And I went to him for his guidance and his counsel over everything that I, it was almost like I was like, how does he can't die?

Someone like that doesn't die. They don't just cease to exist. How is that possible? So that I think was my version of being in disbelief. Like how, how is this person not here? And there's,

every day where I'm like, God, I wish I could ask him about this or that or what his opinion thinks about that. Do you feel closer? Because people told me this too. First of all, they said, oh, it'll get easier. It won't hurt so bad, which I was like, fuck you. You don't know what you're talking about. But there were also people that said that,

you'll start to feel him all around you. And I was like, he's dead. There's no way I can feel him. And that irritated me so badly. But I did find that after time, whenever I'm in the wind, whenever the wind is around me, I feel like goosebumps right now because he knows I'm talking about him, but I can feel him so strongly. And now it's as if I have

And not just with my dad, with other people that I've loved that passed away. Like I have a direct connection with speaking to them anytime I want. It's not like I'm going to call them and ask for advice and they're going to be like, let me call you later. You know, if you talk to them after they've died, it feels like there's so much closer somehow. Yeah.

Do you feel that way? I completely relate to what you're saying. And look, it's like scientifically proven, like people are energy and that energy and that love is a real living thing. And something I really appreciate in Judaism, Judaism actually has an incredibly smart culture.

set of rules around when people die, how long, you know, you're not supposed to do this thing called sitting Shiva, where you don't, you don't leave your house for seven days and people come and you cover the mirrors because you're not supposed to think about vanity or anything. And then after seven days, you are to take a walk around the block. The family is like, okay, this is now signifying to the community. The Shiva's over. Yes. And then there's all these things you do in the first year to sort of mark whatever. And then on their year anniversary, you have the

unveiling of their grave, their tombstone. So it's very sort of like, okay, like they're very into the markers of time that's passed.

But something they do that I really appreciate is Jews don't embalm the body and you must be buried within 48 hours. You have to get in the ground because their feelings, as soon as you die, your soul, that's all that matters. Your body is meaningless. All that matters is the soul. And I believe that that is energy that lives on. That love that my dad had for me and I have for my dad, that hasn't gone anywhere.

where that's still with me. Your love that you have for your dad and that he had for you is always with you and in you. And now it's with your children. And it's, you know, it goes all through every single aspect of your life. So yes, I do love,

that because I still feel how much he loved me very, very much. That being said, I would like to still pick up the phone and have a conversation with him. I prefer that to the feeling of him being around. Yeah. But I think that's a very real thing. And I don't think that's hippy dippy. I don't think that's woo woo. I don't think that's,

You know, bullshit, I think that is a very real and concrete feeling that you have when you have real love and connection with someone. I feel that with my sister-in-law too. I have pictures of her everywhere and I have one in my bathroom. So every single morning when I wake up, she's sort of the first and last thing I see. And I always, I'm like, Shannon, what are we going to do? Like, oh, talk to her picture. I'm like, oh my God, can you believe this? Could you hear about that? And it's like, I can almost feel like I'm having a hard time.

So, you know, I think that stuff is so important to lean into why deny yourself that, you know, and I love that you feel that when there's that you feel your dad. I think that's so like fantastic. Yeah. I love that you talk to her every morning, every morning. Okay. Let's switch gears. I could talk about grief for a very long time. Can you believe that our show, what I like about you started 22 years ago? No, I really can't.

I mean, I really can't. I had a baby on that show. You had a baby on that show. It's wild. It is crazy. I can't believe how quickly it's gone. You know that that really was one of my most favorite work experiences of my entire life. I think about it all the time. And I still get feedback from people constantly. Me too. Who grew up watching it. It was like their comfort show. People love that show. I mean, literally, absolutely.

All the time. People say, I'm sure they say it to you all the time. Yes. People of a certain age. Like I have my 90210 OG fans. I mean, you are like so critical to so many people. It's so many. Then there's like 10 years younger and they were so hooked on what I like about you because it was such a good show. We had so much fun. Every one of us, I think,

probably said the same thing. Like it was one of our favorite experiences working. Absolutely. And you know, I have a very distinct memory of working on that show and I was walking up the stairs for people who don't know it was a multicam, which almost doesn't exist anymore, which is so sad. And it was a favorite, favorite kind of work that I never get to do. And you know, the stage was on the first floor and then our dressing rooms were upstairs. And I remember one day walking up to my dressing room and

And I just had this like feeling where I was like, I feel very grateful for this. I feel very, very, very grateful to be here and for this. And I felt that all the time on that job. I just loved who I worked with. It was sort of a joyous place to be and it was fun. And we just like, you know, I know, right. Going to work and having a good time and laughing instead of being scary or murdered or whatever.

all the things like committing murders running for murders but not only that because of the way that those shows are filmed you have a quality of life in your home with your kids your kids could come to work and hang out and it was like completely great to have them there so that was also something that was really nice that you it felt more kind of like a normal job in a way you know like it was like a bank a banker hours like you would be in traffic driving home and like there was one night that we worked till like

10, you know, when we shot in front of the audience. But that's, I mean, God, as you know, working non-multicam, 10 o'clock, wrapping on a Friday night is early. So anyway, it was my favorite. I loved having you there because you came in on the second season. Was that correct? I did. I came in as a guest star the first season, and then I came back as a regular on the second season, which was such a gift. Oh, I was so excited to have you.

you there to play with because I felt like we were the grownups, if you recall. And I didn't like that feeling because I was not, I had never had that feeling before. And so I was so happy to have a fellow grownup with me to play with every day and to do these fun scenes with. We had so much fun. Oh my God. No, we really did. Like for real, for real. And you were so lovely to me and like welcoming and like, come on in. And that was so,

I mean, it was sort of funny because it was sort of divided between the adults and the kids. The youngins. Uh-huh. Yeah. Which, that's fine. Like, that was super fun. I leaned into the Aunt Sassy of it all, you know? Yeah. You took on the Aunt Sassy and I was like the big sister that wasn't that fun. Yes. But we, I mean, that character also, like, I was such a true idiot, that character, which, you know, I've really, I've cornered the market on playing

actual insane people. And I don't find myself to be personally insane, but I do seem to lean into that very comfortably. So I don't know what that says about me. There's this, there's this part about you that you, you are on the fly all the time. Like that makes sense. Like you, I never know what's going to come out of your mouth, which I love people like that. It keeps things fresh and exciting. And so I feel like you're, and you're kooky. You're, you're a little kooky. And those are all the best qualities in somebody. So.

Well, I appreciate that. You're pretty high up in my book. Well, you're high in my book. But I think you and I had really good chemistry and we played off super well. And I think I also felt like the way that everybody felt about each other on that show really came through. Like we genuinely enjoyed being around each other. And so I felt like that absolutely translated and why people responded the way that they did. Should we do a reboot? I mean, look, Jenny, if the money... We've talked about it.

I mean, look, I am all about nostalgia TV. I think that stuff is fun. And if it was a wonderful script and the right mix, then I'm open to any and all things. I know. I know. We've talked about it before. And there's certain, you know, reasons why we can't do it the way it was done. But we had so much fun. And you're right. The art, the multi-camera art is fantastic.

So close to dying. I agree. And I, I have to say, like, I do think for everybody involved in that show, it was a real sweet spot. You know what I mean? Where people were really at their best. And so, you know, that's such a, I want to articulate this in a good way. I have so much affection for that part of our lives and,

That just amongst the cast that that everybody was sort of firing on all cylinders and everybody had such great chemistry together. So, yes, I am open to all the things, Jenny. Yeah, let's talk. OK, so this is a burning question of mine. What is the deal with you and Ryan Murphy? You've worked with him like 200 times at least.

Did you go to high school? What's happening with this? Ryan, I met before What I Like About You. I met Ryan in 1998 in the casting process for a show called Popular. And he just instantly hit it off. This was my first series. It was Ryan's first series. Nobody had any idea who he was. Right.

He, I mean, I hate to use this term, it's super cheesy, but I do feel that he is, you know, a soulmate of mine in many ways. We share a very similar worldview and what we think is funny. And, you know, he's just this incredibly brilliant, but also hilarious human being. And we just hit it off instantly. And this friendship has endured. And I have to say,

I never, ever, ever expected to work with him for all of these years. The work part was sort of secondary. We met at work, but you meet lots of people at work and you never work with them. You don't think you're going to work with them for 40 years. So, well, it's not quite 40 years. Don't age me. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Yeah, almost 40 years. He and I are 25.

But I never, and so each time we worked together, I'm like, okay, like, I think that's so exciting, but I've never expected it. I've never assumed if we'd only ever done that first series together, that would have been enough. Like that would have been plenty. He gave me my opportunity to be in my very first series. So it's, I feel so, so, so lucky that I, that is one of those things that's just,

timing, the stars aligning, that is the right time. I just happened to be a certain age at a certain time and appropriate for a certain, whatever. And we cross paths and it's just been the most wonderful friendship, not just creatively, but also personally, you know, we've both been through so much and, you know, he's a dad and like the most committed parent. And I,

love his children so much and he is so good to my daughter and when goldie had her first real breakup anything i talked to her about she was like you just don't get like she just didn't want to hear it from me one conversation with her and she was like that was the best advice i've ever gotten and so he's very been very wonderful and good to my daughter so um you know they have the same birthday goldie and ryan have the same birthday okay that's getting weirder then it's

It's so good, though. And they're both it's November 9th. They're both hardcore Scorpios. I'm telling you, like and by the way, both of them are triple Scorpios. So I feel like the universe is like from both sides. You're getting it. But you've worked with them for people that aren't listening. Just want to, like, remind them with popular nip tuck. The new not have a list here. The new normal American Horror Stories.

But how many? I've done six seasons of Horror Story. Horror Story. I just worked with him on Menendez. Yeah. Hi. Can we talk about that, please? Sure. Please. Would love to. We have to talk about monsters. It's so good. It's so good. The Lyle and Eric Menendez story. It's out now on Netflix. And if you haven't watched it, you need to crawl out from under the rock then.

you're living in and go and watch it. You are so incredible as my favorite character, Judalon. Am I saying it right? Yes. Judalon. Judalon Smith. Yeah. I did not know you were going to be in it. I was watching and I was like, oh my God.

There's Leslie. I just saw her in the airport. It was like this weird full circle moment. You were so, so good. You're very kind. The look was very intense. You know, it's a wig. It's 1989 clothes. She's a very specific person. You know, because I'm from Los Angeles and I was in high school when that happened and actually

several friends who were in school with Eric. And this was, you know, two miles from where I grew up. So this, this news was huge nationally and internationally, locally, it was like all anyone could think about or talk about. And so I really watched that case very closely when it happened. And then was it the first one that aired on court TV? I feel like I should know this, but it was one of the first things that aired in its entirety on court TV. And I

And I watched whenever I could. And I remember this character that I play in the show, Judelon Smith. She was a very unique character and person. And her testimony was really outrageous. So I remember it.

very clearly and thankfully all of that testimony is available on YouTube. So I was able to watch all of it and find it of it. But to get to be a part of this was really incredible and phenomenal, but it was mostly just to watch Cooper Koch and Nicholas Chavez who play Lyle and Eric. I mean to watch their performances and to get to be around that and and just knowing like, oh wow, your entire lives are going to change as soon as this airs and it has and

but they're so talented and so good. And so that was really cool to get to watch their incredible hard work and then for the world to see it and really respond to that. Yeah. Everybody remembers that happening in the, in the nineties. I was working through it. I was, I,

playing a character that went to the same school as him so yeah so and that's when your show was I mean as huge as huge could be and you know what's so funny Jenny I think about this all the time what was the average number of a 90210 show when it aired how many people were watching that on an average night not that many because it was on Fox which was a new network okay 18 million

Yeah, probably. Okay. Do you understand? To me, that's not enough. But 18 million views, that would be a hit in a way that like, you would hear executives screaming, like across the canyons of Los Angeles. I mean, that the numbers that your show got were so massive, but just culturally, it was so huge. And so for Nano 210 to be at its

really like ascendancy, right? Right when those murders, it was a, and I remember that. And I spoke about that in an interview. It was a wild crisscross. I feel like the juggernaut of the show is,

Was also rocket fuel for the story of the murder. Yeah. And interestingly enough, I think the show did sort of an episode where actually Matthew Perry played a character. I remember this. That was a tennis player and under a lot of stress from his rich parents.

And I don't think he murdered them on her show, but I mean, Jenny, you have to understand something that my freshman year of college. So obviously I watched it and I just remember somebody being like, there's a show about kids that go to Beverly. And I was like, what? Okay. I have to watch this.

And my freshman year of college, you know, there was like, you had to like watch TV, like in a congregate environment, like there was a TV, like in the co-living space of a dorm. Right. Right.

I mean, the prom episode where you guys are wearing the same dress. Forget it. Forget it. Like, iconic. And you know what was so fun about, I'm sorry, I'm like totally looping back in a different, like I'm going back to a different direction, that when people from 90210 came onto our show, I acted normal. I was me being out. Oh my God. Yes. What I like about you, we had Ian on, we had Luke on, we had Jason on. Yeah.

I think that's it. They were so wonderful too. Like so fantastic. So wonderful. And I felt really lucky that I got to meet Luke, you know, because he was so,

cool like he was so nice he was so cool and I have to say the two of you had that chemistry like no time had gone by it was like right there which was fun but that like you'll never know how much that meant to me I was like I would totally play cool as like hey what's up nice to meet you but inside you're so good

Freaking out, dude. You know, you were saying like it was appointment television. That doesn't happen anymore. Now it's all about streaming. But you are on two shows that are streaming on the top of the charts right now. Did you ever think, see that coming? I did not. So the other show you're talking about is the Kristen Bell, Adam Brody show called Nobody Wants This, created by Aaron Foster, who I've known Aaron for a long time. They were so lovely and called and said, hey, would you, do you want to come play a rabbi? And I don't want to brag, but I've played a rabbi several times now on television. Mm-hmm.

So I love that they made such an effort to have Jewish actors playing Jewish characters, which, you know, for many, many years is not what happened. And it was like, I only did one episode, but I swear to God, I have gotten more feedback from doing that one episode than almost anything I've ever done because that is such a massive hit. And it's so funny that they aired at the exact same time. Oh, my God. And then switched places. Like, it's just...

You're killing it. Oh, I don't know. I'm an actor. So the minute you say that, I'm like, well, I know for me to never work again. I'll never work. That's the only way it can happen. Like you have to. And by the way, every time I get a job, every time to this day, after decades of doing this, I'm like, no, really? Are you sure? You're like, oh, you want me? Yes. Always. I will never, ever get over that. So I, when there's moments where people are watching what you do,

Because there's a lot of down times. I was going to ask you, you've been working steadily, pretty steadily. Has there ever been a time during that downtime when you're like, maybe I should try something different? Like, what else could I do? You know, you ask a great question. Yeah.

One of my toxic traits is I am enormously stubborn. And I also am like, nope, put too much time in. I put too much time in. I'm going to wait everyone else out till they leave. And then they'll create some sort of vacuum for me to move into. I didn't ever think of quitting. There were times where I was like, wow, this is horrific. Because when you have something that you love, that is your dream, and you go through periods where nothing really seems like it's going on. I remember...

feeling like there was a time where it felt like my career was like on a boat and the boat was out to sea. And I was like, come back someday. Hopefully brings you back to me. So I have had some real dark moments where I'm like, fuck, this is horrible. I never ever thought of quitting. And I swear to God, I,

I truly believe that it's just through sheer force of will and endurance and a refusal to quit.

Yeah. That's the only reason. And it's out of a stubborn inability to know when to call it. Right. Because I always think, well, what else am I going to do? Like, this is what I do. Well, but the amazing thing about you is you do everything, which you know what you've always been. And I've always admired this about you. You are a fricking hustler and you always have been like you are like you multitask in a way that I've never seen. And I have this memory of you like walking around.

into work with like two dogs, children,

the papers, the script, and like an assistant, like, and you're like, you have 70 businesses and things going on. But then when you have to lock into the thing in front of you, you lock into that thing. Okay. Now I'm going to lock into that thing. And you always did it all with a lot of grace. Like, I don't know. I don't have that ability. So for instance, you have this incredible collaboration with QVC, you know, that like,

So I have, I love QVC more than anything. I mean, I really do. And I watch it all the time. And particularly at the height of lockdown, I was like, nothing is more comforting to me right now. Like the world is insane. All I want to do is watch someone talking about this particular blanket, like, and why this is so good. And I'm like, I want to hear all about the microfiber count on this blanket. Yeah.

It really there's something about it that just sucks you in. Yes. But, you know, you've also you you've always managed to be like ahead of the curve. QVC is doing something very brilliant, embracing women 50 and over now. Right. That you are just like, hello, like I am going to walk right into that. And you're like the perfect face for all of this.

Someone that people have grown up with who, you know, they can see themselves in who's doing it in a way that's really admirable and aspirational. And, you know, I think you're amazing. Your ability to just like always have 50 different things going at the same time. I don't know. Oh my God. Thank you. Ask my husband. It's not quite as graceful as you, you might think, but you got to hustle girl. You do. You do have to hustle. We got to pay the bills. And,

And you have always been a very good provider. I like taking care of people. Also, you've been working since you were really, really young. Yeah, like 17, 16, 17. Yep. So I think that's just in you. It's just. I have a strong work ethic and I enjoy doing things like I enjoy getting shit done. Yeah.

like checking it off my list and then next very impressed i thank you so much that's very nice of you to notice me i wouldn't say it if i didn't

Okay. If you weren't an actress, what would you do with your time? What would you be? It's such a cliche answer, but I probably would be like a therapist. I just find people so fascinating and I'm so like psychologically curious. And obviously that is so much of what acting is, is you're getting into the mind of a different person. But I mean, first of all, my favorite thing ever, like my dream evening is this is gonna sound terrible, but getting sat next to people that are in a fight, like,

Like I just, because I want to hear about the minimum issues and he is not, he needs to go to a therapist for that. And she is not listening and she's not holding space for it. Like I just, Oh my God, let's go to, I want to go to dinner with you and we won't talk. No, we'll just listen to sushi. We'll order our food and then hopefully sit next to people right next to people. Correct. And I've had that before. So I find that,

Other psychological dynamics between people, fascinating and, you know, figuring out why people are the way that they are and how directly affects what you're like today and how you can make real change right here, right now, that whatever happened to you, it's not like, oh, it's not like the story is written and you can't adjust that and how people can figure out different ways to

get through things. I find all of it. I do too. We should, we should have been therapists together. Let's open up. Let's go to school. And that'll be another one. I'm seeing a show though. It's. I think this is good. I think so too. Two actresses who become therapists and we, we,

Live together. We have to live together. Live together. And we're messes. Have you noticed that sometimes therapists, not every therapist, because my best friend is a therapist, was a therapist, and she's like the best person I know. But a lot of times therapists don't have their shit together in their real lives. No. And sort of the cliche is,

also is like, I just remember there was some kids, not all, but there were some kids that I grew up with whose parents were therapists. And I was like, oh boy, there's a lot going on in your house. Oh, can you imagine? Might not be able to see you any longer. So I think, look, I think

are drawn to certain things for certain reasons. I think maybe dysfunctional people are drawn to psychological work. They want to understand why they are the way they are. And by the way, I put myself in that category. Yeah, me too. Hi. Taking myself out of it at all. So yeah, I think that's fair. And by the way, whoever said I wasn't kind of a mess, I don't, I literally have no idea what I'm doing on any given day. I am winging it constantly. Absolutely. You've never done this before. No, I really haven't. You've never been in this moment right now before. And people forget that.

Like when you fuck up as a mom or like you make a mistake with a friend or at work and you are so hard on yourself about it. And why did I do that? And you beat yourself up about it. And I have to remind myself in those moments like, hello, you've never done this before. Of course, you're not going to do everything right all the time. And the thing that also kind of blows my mind though, I was literally talking to someone this morning about this where I

You know, I am still learning big lessons where I'm like, oh, wow, that was a learning experience. It was deeply painful, but it was...

in my kitchen. That is a learning experience. And I'm like, oh, wow. Okay. So at this age, I'm still having learning experiences. Oh, my God. Sometimes my husband and I talk about this. We're like, I'm so tired of evolving. Like, please make it stop. Literally. Like, I get it. Like, I've learned I don't want to learn any more lessons. I'm all full on lessons. Thank you so much. But that's not what life is. It really isn't. And it's

just waiting for you to buck up again. I mean, we have had, we've had such a good time together, but I feel like we're destined to work together again. And I really look forward to that. Let's do it. I just love talking to you. I love hanging out with you all hours of the day and night on set. I just love you. Well, before we go, I just want to say, first of all, thank you for having me on. I also talked so much and it's not fair because I,

I know you. So I'm just so excited to like talk to you. And now other people are going to have to listen in on that. No, they want to hear everything you have to say. And also I remembered something. This is so like unimportant and stupid, but you taught me like a food thing that I never, ever forgot where we were sitting. They had like on set. It was like a cobbler and like we got a cobbler and there was ice cream and you salted it.

And I was like, what are you talking? I was like, why are you salting that? And you're like, no, no, the salt brings out. And I was like, okay. And I salted it. And I was like, this is the greatest thing that's ever happened. And I feel like salted caramel became a huge bad after that. And I was like, one Miss Jenny Garth has been salting your sweet things many, many years. I'm a trailblazer when it comes to.

Eating salt. You are a trailblazer. On that ridiculous note. Oh, that's so funny. I have one final question to ask you. Leslie Grossman, what was your last I choose me moment?

Oh, it can be big. It can be little, you know, you're in the, in the minefield of choosing yourself right now, which is an amazing place to be. I will tell you my last choose me moment that I alluded to in a text with you that I won't go into too many details. I had an interaction. I don't want to be too obvious, but it was like a collaboration and I, I did not like the way it was going down. And it,

The old me, the younger me would have stuck it out, made excuses. I would have apologized. I would have blamed myself. And instead, I very directly said, this doesn't feel good. And I'm going to remove myself from this. Best of luck.

And it felt great. It felt so great. And the more that you make those choices, the better it is for you. That is you taking care of yourself. And it's not easy and it doesn't come naturally to me. And I don't want people to think I'm a bitch or ungrateful. Whatever it is that we worry, people are going to think about us. To say, I don't like this.

And I'm removing myself. And I did that just a couple of days ago. So that was my last choose me moment without going into the specifics of it. I protected myself. I love it. Jenny, I choose you. I choose you, Jenny. Will you give all your girls kisses for me? And Goldie too. I want to hold her like a baby, but I can't because she's large now. She's tall. She's like five, nine. I don't care for it. Yeah. How tall are you?

I have six. It's weird when they're taller than us. What is happening? And by the way, I'll just say this. They're taller now. Kids are taller now. They grow them taller now. They grow more. Yeah, it's true. All the friends come over and I'm like, it's like Amazons are in my- I cannot wait to tell Fiona that I talked to Goldie's mom today. She's going to be so happy. Not to give her a squeeze from me. And your girls are just like-

oh my God, like you're just, you know, you've always been the most wonderful mother and so totally committed to them. And now look how wonderful they are. So mazel. Mazel to you. Love seeing you. I love you. Bye-bye. Thank you. Bye.

Oh, I just love Leslie Grossman, you guys. It was so nice to chat with her and just, you know, walk down memory road with her and some of the fun memories that we had working together on What I Like About You. What a great time we had. And I'm just, I'm so...

I'm so happy for her and proud of her and all the incredible roles that she has played. But especially right now, I mean, she's just killing it and I couldn't be happier for anybody. As we continue to choose ourselves each week, I want to challenge you this week to something. When was the last time you told someone in your life that you love them? Talking with Leslie today, we were both reflecting on

on what it's like to lose a parent. And I know for a lot of us, if given the opportunity to see that parent again, we would want to make sure that we told them we love them. So this week, I encourage you to send a text or tell someone, just call them maybe. Next time you talk to them, tell them that you love them. Life can change in the blink of an eye.

So let's all choose to really prioritize and remind ourselves how lucky we are to have people in our lives. Thanks for listening to I Choose Me. You can check out all our social links in our show notes. You can rate us. You can review us. And be sure to use the hashtag I Choose Me so I can find you. I'll be right here next week. I hope you choose to be here too.