I Choose...Dancing with Joey Graziadei and Jenna Johnson Chmerkovskiy
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Hi, this is Jenny Garth from the I Choose Me podcast. If you're managing a challenging mental condition, weekly therapy can sometimes feel like it's not enough. You may be looking for a way to spend more focus time on you. That's where Amend Mental Health Treatment Center comes in. I recently took a tour at Amend in beautiful Malibu, California, and the facility is so gorgeous and serene.

The dedicated team of doctors and therapists with deep clinical expertise were amazing. Designed to give you the time and space you need to have that breakthrough. They have two unique locations in Malibu that surround you in natural beauty and pure calm. Find out more at amendtreatment.com slash start.

Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th 2017 was assassinated. Crooks Everywhere unearthed the plot to murder a one-woman Wikileaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey there, I'm Dr. Maya Shankar, and I'm a scientist who studies human behavior. Many of us have experienced a moment in our lives that changes everything, that instantly divides our life into a before and an after. On my podcast, A Slight Change of Plans, I talk to people about navigating these moments.

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I am showing up for my younger self and it is becoming a ripple effect energetically in my life. And that's why I feel so safe now. Listen to The Bright Side from Hello Sunshine on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Garth.

Hey, everyone. Welcome to I Choose Me. This podcast is all about the choices we make and where they lead us. My guests today are absolutely crushing it as dance partners on the current season of Dancing with the Stars. We will get to them in just a little bit.

But I can't do this without thinking about my own journey on Dancing with the Stars. I was researching on my flight the other day. I was watching all of their dances back from the season so far so I could talk to them. And it got me thinking about my dances. So I started rewatching some of my dances on YouTube and just going down memory lane. And I don't know. It's just it got me thinking about my own I choose me moment decision back in

2007 on season five to do the show. So I wanted to bring in my longtime manager, Mr. Showbiz, Randy, back onto the podcast. He was there with me and he knows, he probably remembers it better than I do. So hi, Randy. Hi, welcome back.

Well, I'm thrilled to be back. Oh, my gosh. Can you believe that I did Dancing with the Stars in 2007? That was when Fiona was six months old and she's 18 now. Well, that's the crazy thing because I've said this before. Nothing marks time like other people's, watching other people's children grow up. And the idea that Fiona's 18, because I remember she was like a baby practically. Yeah, in my arms, like that kind of baby. That's completely mind boggling to me.

And of course, this season, Tori was on Dancing with Stars. She was eliminated very early, which was very upsetting because she had so much potential to grow so much. That was fun watching her, by the way. Well, I'm so proud of her, though, because... Oh, my God, right? It was... Yeah, for so many years, she was so afraid to do this. And, you know...

She really overcame all of her fears to go on the show. And not just her fears, but her physical limitations, you know? Yeah. She has had five children by cesarean section. Yeah. Five C-sections will do something to your core strength, I would imagine. Yeah.

So I was so proud of her. Yeah. Yeah. She was great. Yeah. But it just really got me not only thinking about her and this couple, but also going down memory lane and thinking about my experience on Dancing with the Stars. That was wild. Amazing. Amazing. How did it even come about? How did this opportunity to do the show even come about for me? I don't remember.

Well, the show hadn't been on that. I mean, it had been on a few years and it was kind of just, I think, hitting, really hitting its stride of being a cultural phenomenon. And they reached out to me for you and you and I talked about it. And I think initially, I mean, you tell me, but my memory of it was that you, we were both maybe a little bit on the fence about it because you were, you know, busy working as an actress and, and, you know, um,

This just to do a reality show like this, we weren't sure, but we talked about it. And I think that you decided and I think I just we decided together that to look at this as a challenge. They they took the producers at the time. I don't know if they do this anymore, but I don't know if you remember this, but the producers took us out to lunch.

Before we committed to it, Conrad Green, who was the original executive producer, and Dina Katz took us to lunch and sort of walked us through everything. And we decided after that to go ahead and move forward with it. But I don't think you tell me, but I don't think you had any idea how...

physically challenging this was going to be. Is that accurate? Yeah. First of all, I don't remember any of this. I don't remember this lunch you speak of. I don't think I thought it through at all, quite honestly, because I did. I had

Yeah.

I didn't know I'd be rehearsing for six or eight hours a day. And I only rehearsed that much because I really needed it because I felt like I wasn't getting in. I wasn't prepared enough. And I remember when

They introduced me to my dance partner, who was Derek Hough. And that was his first season. He had literally gotten off a plane from London where he had been headlining like Footloose or something in London. And I only knew he was Julianne's brother.

And he had never done the show. That's all I knew about him. And I was like, oh, okay. And I didn't have the ability to like look him up or back in 2007. I couldn't just, there was not a lot of things I could look up on the internet at that time. Absolutely. Right. There was no social media or anything. Right. But yeah, when I remember meeting him and thinking, oh my God, he's so young. He is a baby boy.

And I just felt like a towering, like, oaf mom next to him. Like, there was just such a weird discrepancy between us in my mind that it was really hard to come together as like a team with him. You know, I felt really weird. What did you think when Derek was my dance partner when they told us? Well, do you remember the day that you met him and where you were and the whole circumstance? Yeah.

I remember he came to our house. Right. He came to the house. We were in the backyard sitting out by the swimming pool. And he came out. And I had seen pictures of him, but I had the exact same reaction because when he walked out and it was walking, I remember him walking around the pool. And my thought was, he's like a kid. He looks like a teenager. How's he going to lift her up? Well, that's the other thing I wanted to bring up with you because

I don't know how many of the fans follow you on Instagram and have seen your exercise videos. And if you haven't, ladies, you absolutely check it out. But right now, fitness is a major part of your life. It is. And I follow you and I watch your routines and it's amazing. But at the time, safe to say, fitness was not a major priority for you.

And I don't think you realized what a physical challenge this was going to be. And I'll tell you, you, you were not in bad shape, but I don't think I just had a baby. Like I don't, right. You know, I think I can't stress that enough. No, absolutely. But I, I cannot believe how your body transformed during the course of dancing with the stars because you were literally, as you just said, were,

rehearsing six to seven hours a day, just think of the calorie burn alone from that, you know? And what I think happened with you is you had just made a decision that you were going to go for this and you decided to put everything into it. And, and, and I think people who go on this show, they go one of two ways. They either rise to the occasion and rise to the challenge or they

They decide, I'm just going to go along for the ride and see what happens. But you definitely rose to the challenge and gave it everything you had and did really, really well on the show. I did not actually make the decision. The decision was sort of made for me, and especially not knowing what I was getting into, not really having had any live TV experience to that extent, performing in front of the world, basically, and

I was so out of my comfort zone. I cannot even tell you. And I didn't know any other way to deal with it than to do my best to just jump in, like you said, and go for it because that was the only option for me or look like an idiot on national television. Right. I didn't want to do that. That's the thing about you. Anything that you've ever decided to put your mind to, you've given it

I mean, when you decided to become an actress, you gave it 100%. That was not something you didn't grow up as a child actor, you know? I mean, and so you jumped into classes and studying and all of that. And I think you took that same work ethic. Both your mother and your father had a great work ethic. They both worked their whole lives. And your father had a... You grew up on a farm and your father would go to work all day for the...

at school and teaching and then come home and go and work the back 40 of the farm. So you grew up with two parents modeling a strong work ethic for you. And I think you've applied that to everything that you've done. Yeah. They just instilled in me, even if it's work, it should be something that you're passionate about and that passion will drive you and actually make your work fun. We

He loved teaching and he loved being on the tractor just as much. And my mom, same, you know, so that I feel like anything I do, whether it's work or not considered work.

If I put my passion into it, it's because I want to spend my time having fun and loving what I do. So, yeah, that's why I choose to not do some things now as I've gotten older and realized, you know, that you can say no to things. It's OK. I wonder if I would change.

Like, I always think, would I do Dancing with the Stars again? Would I do that now? Because people my age are doing it and older. If they came to me now and I had never done it before, would I do it now? What would you recommend that I do it? You know, I mean, had you not done it before? Right. At this moment in time, I don't think I would. Only because, safe to say, I don't think you've ever been busier than you are right now.

So it's pretty hard for you to even have time to, you know, go out to dinner. So I don't know where we would fit it into your schedule. And not to mention the hips of it all. Well, that's true. That's true. But you know what? I think I think that you would you would rise above that. So the good news is you've already done it.

I don't have to do it. You don't have to do it again. You've crossed that off your bucket list. Let me ask you something. How many, because, you know, I think...

Anybody who's a fan of yours now knows that you don't have the greatest memory, but how many of the couple of the stars from your season do you remember? Can I name? Can you name? Yeah. I can only do this because I saw some clips. Okay. My birthday buddy, the Vegas guy, amazing performer. Wayne Newton. Wayne Newton. Right. Jane Seymour. Right. Right.

The cheetah girl, Sabrina Bryant, Elio Castro-Novez. Right. Right. He was the- Sabrina Bryant. Now that's- Well, she was my friend. Like we bonded. We hung out. Yeah. I love Sabrina.

Okay. Cameron Matheson, who also went on to work with me and be friends with me. Let's see. Let's see. Let's see. Oh, Mel B. Right. I was scared of her at first, but I loved her when I got to know her. Who else am I? Marie Osmond. Did I say Marie Osmond? No, Marie Osmond.

Is that it? I don't... Well... Oh, wait, wait. The big guy on the shark, the shark guy. Ah, Mark Cuban. Mark Cuban. Now, that blew my mind. When I went, I had to look it up myself before I came on. And I had... How did I forget that Mark Cuban was on your season? I know. That's wild. Yeah. I just remember being like... I made it to the semifinals and I was so... Like...

Just being the mom and trying to juggle that and trying to keep my husband happy during that time and worrying about all the things.

When they called my name that night and told me that I was going home, I was like, thank God. Oh, seriously? Really? I was so happy to go home. And I knew also that we were coming up into the finals where you had to do like all these crazy things. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was like, yes.

Now, I wanted to ask you, because at the time you and Peter Bacinelli were married and I actually was managing both of you at the time. And I know that, you know, a lot of couples, when their spouse, husband or wife go on the show, it's a little weird if they don't come out of the dance community where that's a fairly normal thing.

And I remember Peter was, especially when he saw young, uh, Derek Huff, uh, strutting, strutting past the pool in the backyard. I, uh,

He was a little like, okay, I don't know about this. I mean, I can't imagine him being threatened by Derek Hough. He literally looked like a teenager. Well, that's true. And by the way, Peter, one of the most handsome men still in America, right? Yeah, he had seemingly great confidence too. Yes, he did. Yes. But I do remember me having to...

him the absurdity of any concerns that he would have because I just felt like Derek was like a brother to me. He felt like my little brother. And so when anything would arise like that, I'd be like, are you kidding me? Like, what? But yeah, I remember

couple of moments of seeing that confidence armor come down yeah and him you know during heated argument I remember him saying you know like how do you think I feel with you spending all your time touching bodies with this guy you know like I know it wasn't as easy for him as he wanted it to seem but he covered it pretty well yeah because if you're not if you don't come out of the dance world that

that kind of intimacy. And by the way, plenty of dancers and their partners on that show have ended up together for a period of time or potentially forever. So, you know, it's not completely, completely unwarranted. Oh my gosh. Can you imagine if I had left Peter and our marriage for Derek Huff? That would have been weird. In that moment in 2007. Yeah. Talk about robbing the cradle. Wow. Okay. Yeah,

Oh my God. So much fun going down memory lane with you. Yeah, me too. Thank God you have, you have a really good memory, Randy, for a guy your age. Yeah, you had to throw that in, didn't you? Oh my God. Okay. I'm just, I'm really excited to dive into this interview. So I'm going to say goodbye to you. Thank you so much. Let's do it. I'm going to watch. Okay. I'm looking forward to it. All right. Okay. Bye. Bye. Bye.

Hi, this is Jenny Garth from the I Choose Me podcast. If you're managing a challenging mental condition, weekly therapy can sometimes feel like it's not enough. You may be looking for a way to spend more focus time on you. That's where Amend Mental Health Treatment Center comes in. I recently took a tour at Amend in beautiful Malibu, California, and the facility is so gorgeous and serene.

The dedicated team of doctors and therapists with deep clinical expertise were amazing. Designed to give you the time and space you need to have that breakthrough. They have two unique locations in Malibu that surround you in natural beauty and pure calm. Find out more at amendtreatment.com slash start.

Okay, so I'm so excited to get into this interview. Please welcome former bachelor Joey Grazadeh and pro dancer and mirrorball champion Jenna Johnson-Schmerkovsky to the I Choose Me podcast.

I'm so excited to have you both on. Thank you. Thank you for taking time from your busy, busy, busy schedule. I know how busy you guys are right now. Thank you. Thank you for having us. We're excited. Is today a rehearsal day? A tape day? What's happening? Yes. So we already had rehearsal this morning.

For how many hours? Four. Four hours. I was rehearsing like six or eight hours a day because I needed it. Yeah, I think once it gets closer to the end, the hours will start increasing for sure. You guys are just absolutely crushing it on this season. Joey, it's like you came out of the gate swinging. Yeah.

You said that you've played the drums and that you've incorporated into a dance number. Amazing. You were a cheerleader. So you have that like, you know, flippability, which is working out for you. Did you have any dance experience prior to this?

I didn't have any dance experience. And I always need to clear up the fact that I wasn't actually a cheerleader because it was so funny that all came about. I did. If you've ever heard of powder puff cheerleading, it was really big at my high school where girls play football and the guys learn how to be cheerleaders.

And for us, it was like a big pep rally thing. So that was the first time I ever started doing stunts, which is where I learned how to back flip and learning, I guess, a little bit of choreography, nothing like what I'm doing with Jenna. So I guess that would be my past experience. Um, it's definitely helped with doing some fun things on the show. Uh,

But no, I really haven't had any like actual dance classes. I came in kind of as new as I could be and just try to listen to Jenna and everything that everyone's seeing. The reason why it's looked good has really just been because of her and me trying to be a good student.

I know you've got the best pro. You're so lucky. I'm very aware. Thank you. He definitely is a capable body. He's very athletic. He's very smart and he's willing to try anything, which is really helpful in this process. You should add that to your resume, a capable body. Yeah, that's a good title. I'll take that all day.

Jenna, you're just such a talented, talented dancer. How old were you when you got into the dance world? I'm curious. Must have been very young. Yes, I started actually when I was three. And I never stopped. I always knew that I loved it. But I started, you know, doing like the little things.

The little kids ballet, jazz tap classes, little combo classes. And then I started learning ballroom when I was about eight. So that's where it all began for me. Oh my gosh. And this was in Utah, right? Yes. Yes. Yeah. So Utah is becoming like the it place now with Julianne and Derek are both from Utah. Uh-huh. If you remember-

Chelsea Hightower, who used to be on the show. She was also from Utah. Lindsay, Whitney, Riley, Ezra, Stephanie. Such a dance scene coming out of there. It's wild. Wow. Okay. So I have to ask you with all these Utah TV shows popping up now, the secret lives of Mormon wives and the housewives of Salt Lake City. I just need to know, is that accurate? Like...

you know, Utah culture. I wish that I had time to watch all of those. And it's interesting because I know a couple of girls that are on the new secret live show. I haven't had time because it aired while we've been in season. I've heard there's a lot of tea, so I need to get caught up as soon as we're done with this show. But again, I can't speak on it because I haven't fully...

fully invested myself yet. But listen, I'm here to put Utah on the map. So let's keep the buzz alive. You're doing it. You're probably going to see one of them, you know, next year in the cast, I would imagine. One was in the audience this past taping. So yeah, there it comes. There it comes.

It's so intimidating to do this show. I know firsthand. And Joey, did you realize what you were signing up for when you agreed to do this?

Yes and no. I was lucky enough to know some people that were on the show, so I got to ask some questions, but it's the same with everything. You ask questions, but you don't really know the right questions to ask. And after doing it, I would have asked so many different questions coming in because you want to know about the time commitment. You want to know kind of about how tough it can be on your body and all these things.

But you don't think about until it gets to that crunch time and what it's like actually to go out there on stage. And you don't think about how much pressure you feel every week to keep delivering good dances. And that like, I don't know, that feeling that people forget that right before you get out there, you get these butterflies of like excitement, but also nerves. And also you start questioning even how to walk, let alone dance. And it's just all these things start coming into your head. And

that part was so much more intense than I could have imagined. And I'm addicted to that feeling, but I'm also terrified of it every week. It's a very interesting back and forth and all the mental that comes with this, I think is so hard to explain. You just kind of have to do it to understand what it's like. Absolutely. I still, I think I have PTSD from the announcer announcing and now dancing the cha-cha.

And then they say your name. I swear every time I hear that, I kind of get the anxiety in my body, the feeling. That 10 count comes in quick. You hear 10, 9, and all of a sudden you start hearing your name. You're like, oh, wait, I'm about to dance right now. Let's do this. And you forget everything you've been taught. You just have to pray that it comes back to you.

I said it to all my friends. I think I even said in some of the press stuff I did that tango we did, which I think is maybe been our one of our strongest, if not our strongest dance yet was the first time I fully blacked out. I have no recollection of that entire dance. I came to right when I like,

through Jenna, through my legs. I was like, wait, was it good? I think I asked her when I pulled her up, like, was it good? Cause I just totally blanked, but you do it so much. It just starts to be in your body. Maybe that's the key. Maybe you should try. That's your goal. Blackout every time. I wish that was me. Don't blackout.

Jenna, you know, everybody knows you're married to fellow pro dancer Val. Yes. And he and his partner Phaedra were voted out. Yes. Very sad. Yes. I know that you guys were rooting each other on, obviously, during the competition. I'm just curious, like when you take your dance shoes off at night and you go home to your life, do you guys talk shop?

Yes and no. There's like a fine balance because obviously he knows what I'm feeling. I know what he's feeling. And it's hard not to bring that stress into our own personal life and at home. I think especially now that we've become parents, we are way more strict about going home and just being comfortable.

and husband and wife and parents to our son. But yes, he's very invested. And now that he's eliminated, he's been full throttle into what is going on with me and Joey. And he's like, listen, I want you guys to bring it. So I really love his support. But yeah, you know, it's hard to like trust

try to separate and be like, Oh, I'm not going to talk about dance because we have so much dance in our life. It's crazy. Our whole world is dance. And so it's nice to kind of just like separate and just be humans for a second at home. But I then do have the luxury of being like, Hey babe, can you try this eight count with me? Can you see if this lift works? Can you see if this feels nice? So I feel really grateful in that aspect.

That's good. That's good to have that kind of support and that kind of shared experience is so valuable. Yes, it is. I mean, I don't know if I would be able to do the show without him and without him, his knowledge and his expertise and just his full support. It's incredible. I love that.

Okay, so you be honest. Is it ever uncomfortable for you guys to dance like sensually with one another when your partners and the whole world are watching? Because I know that was super weird for me. I will let Joey answer because it's not for me at all because I've been doing this for my whole life and I've

you know, plenty partners where this is my work. This is what I, this is my craft. This is my artistry. So it's not word for me, but I definitely have like a level of respect for everybody that jumps into this process and is willing to throw themselves into fully accepting like the character each week. But yeah, I'll let Joey, Joey answer this one.

I wouldn't say it's weird. I would say the word I always use is like hesitant. I think that when you come into it, you've, it feels just odd to be like taking charge in a dance and being more physical and getting into someone's space. Because if you've never done it before, you just like, it just doesn't feel, I guess, right to do it right away. So, um,

It doesn't feel weird, especially now that I've been doing it as long and how comfortable Jen and I have gotten. It's not as much a thing, but I do need reminders sometimes to be more closer and being in the space and listening to her when that's the time to do it, when you're supposed to be here, when you're not supposed to be here. So at this point, it's just like I listen to direction, I go into it. But I do remember when you first start, you know, you have to grab her and it's like, wait, I...

wouldn't grab this like this physical and be this close to someone. It just doesn't feel right necessarily. So yeah, the word I would use is hesitant because it's new. But then once you learn what it's supposed to be and you start to feel what these moves are, then at the end of the day, it just feels like I'm listening to my coach and doing dance moves. So we're at the point where I wouldn't say it's as weird as it was in the beginning. Yeah. I mean, that's so true what you say, because if you haven't danced like close contact, danced like that,

it's not doesn't come naturally to people like like you said like i wouldn't just step right up and be so close body on body to somebody that you know i don't know that well so i totally get that also you're like not used to having to act or like play a role trying to tell somebody to like i think this is a funny concept i don't know if you've faced this or felt this at all but like

Joey, this week you're going to be sexy. Like what is your sexy face? How do you tell someone like, you know, to put on this like performance or character? It's really hard to teach that. And I think that's something that Joe has excelled in is he just naturally is a great performer. I don't know where it came from. I'm so grateful for it.

But that is a funny concept as well of like, you know, we're doing the rumba. You've got to be like sensual. And like, what does that mean for your face? What does that mean for your performance? Unless you're really used to acting or dance before. So that's something that I think is one of Joey's strengths this season. For sure. You have instincts, Joey. Maybe you should be an actor next. I know. Yeah.

Who knows? I have no idea. I never thought I'd be here today talking to you and dancing on national television. So I have no idea what's going to be next. But yeah, the performance part has surprisingly been one of my favorite things of once you know the dance, you just get the ability to go out there and like

act as you're supposed to. And I'm really excited for having that with Halloween this week. Like it's just going to be a new thing. So yeah, it's been surprising because it was one of the things I was the most nervous about. But as I've gotten more weeks under my belt, it's actually one of my things I look forward to the most is when I'm like, okay, I know these steps. Now I can start thinking about how I'm going to perform. And we usually don't hit those until like

end of the day on Saturday or starting on Sunday, we start talking about that. And that's when I actually get the most excited about our dances and when we start thinking about how we're going to perform. It all comes together. Your fiance, beautiful Kelsey, she addressed comments in the beginning of the season. You know how they are. She said that you gave her the security and the reassurance that she needs. How do you do that? How do you

give that to your partner in this extraordinary experience that you're in.

I don't know if there's an easy answer to that because I'm still learning that every day. I think in general, partner, you're trying to always make them feel reassured and secure in the relationship. And this is just one of those situations where it's so chaotic and I'm not able to be with her as physically as much as I would like to because I'm always away with dance. And then on top of it, you add this element of outside noise and it's all new. But for me, what I continue to try to do is stay present when I am with her physically

really try to have a gauge on where her emotions are at so I can understand what I need to be doing. But I'm still learning that every day. And we actually had to talk about this the other day, which was amazing to hear where her head's at with a lot of this. She gave me like a sweet message and said, I hope when you get these questions, you start deflecting them because I want this to be about you and your journey. I don't want this to be about how I'm handling and how we're handling all this.

which is like so sweet that she's saying that. But at the same time, I understand and Jenna understands it does come with the territory. So to see where we've come from week one to now, I think has been amazing just because it is all new. But we're both still figuring it out because we're both still new to being in a public relationship. And we've actually leaned on Jenna and Val and asked a lot of questions because they've been doing this a lot longer of what all that's like. But yeah, no easy answer that one. I'm figuring it out every day.

Yeah. And I'm sure, Jennifer, you get tons of comments like, you know, you and your husband. It's got to be something that can weigh on you or can like just come into your experience and you don't need it. It's like unnecessary, like you said, Joey, noise. Yeah. And you guys handle that well together, I'm assuming, since you're both pros at this.

Yeah, we do our best. But yeah, I think, you know, it's not as abrasive to us because it is something that we do. We have experienced multiple times and even more so when Val and I became a public couple. That was very jolting for fans. They wanted him with every single partner that he was with and definitely not me. So we've experienced it. I

Now I don't have time for it anymore. It doesn't bother me because I

Again, I'm used to it, but I'm also so secure in my relationship and what my job is as a pro on Dancing with the Stars. But it's sad that people have to go to those lengths to try to make people feel some type of way and can't just celebrate the beauty of like, this is such a beautiful journey that you're about to go on and a once in a lifetime opportunity that's only three months long. So,

So I think in the beginning it was a little not defeating, but it was a little sad that it just had to be those comments, especially targeted at Kelsey. But I feel like as soon as week one happened and week two happened,

people are now just supportive. And I think it's, you know, that initial shock of like, oh, these two are next to each other. And then now it's just been nothing but support. So I think it's that initial shock needed to wear off. And now fans have just been so beautiful and so supportive of our journey. I love that. Okay. Doing the show is a major I choose me moment because it's a big decision and you have to go into it ultimately doing it for yourself.

But it's also a choice to wake up every day and to choose to stay and work at relationships. And being that the show is in such an out of the normal environment, what choices are you both making on how to prioritize your partner, even with your busy schedules when you're off the dance floor? Because I know how busy your schedules are and I know how long you're rehearsing and I know how consuming, all consuming this is for those three months.

Like, do you have to, at the beginning of your day or your week, like schedule in time with your partner? How do you keep, you know, your partner priority amidst all of this? Because it's so important.

For sure. I can just speak on behalf of myself, but I think leading up to the season, Val and I both kind of prep ourselves like, all right, we know what storm is about to hit. Let's prepare ourselves. So this season, we actually, right before we started, we went on a family vacation, just the three of us. And it was so nice to just regroup and enjoy those moments of doing nothing. But

And then I think also during the season, like you said, it's so important to take time and be like, we need to date night or we need to just like snuggle for two hours uninterrupted, or we need to just like talk and catch up on life. And so I think prioritizing those moments and really reconnecting communication is huge in our relationship. And so I think the more that we're vocal and talking and just checking in with each other to see where we're at,

the better I am just personally and then in our relationship. So I think just like those recheck in moments and then also understanding that there is a finish line at the end of the day. Right. It's not for it's temporary. It's temporary. So just knowing that, like, I can do anything. How many more weeks do we have for something?

for four more weeks and put my heart soul into it. So I have no regrets at the end of this. That's kind of always my mentality going into the season. And especially when you have a good partner like Joey Val understands, like you need to give everything and you need to do this for you because next season, you don't know where you're going to be. You don't know what partner you're going to have. So I think having that mindset is, is important. Absolutely. Joey.

Yeah, I would say mine's definitely a little different because we didn't know what it was going to be like exactly. And we came off of a TV show where we had all the chaos for three months in a row before I did this, which was fun because we traveled around a lot and did a lot of things. But then we also didn't get as much time to actually, I don't know, stay in our own little bubble in our world, maybe as much as we'd like to. So we were actually excited for this too, because it was the first time we got our own place to ourselves. And the first time we've got to kind of start

I can't think of other way than just saying playing house and starting to actually be a real couple in a spot that felt like ours, which was really exciting. But then what I try to do to help with all the chaos is have like a reset because you come back from practice and you're drained, you're tired. And Kelsey is so good at giving me, I usually ask for like five to 10 minutes where I'll literally just

pop my butt down on the couch and just sit there and do nothing and just like stare out into space. And then as soon as I feel, and I had those five to 10 minutes, I tell her all about my day. I ask how her day was. And we just have that open communication to see what I've missed, what she's missed. And I try to bring as much energy to that conversation as I did the entire time I was at Dancing with the Stars. And when I do that well, it seems to really help with get us back on the same wavelength. And

And as you said, we schedule in as much dinners as we can. If she has family in town, if she has friends in town, I make sure I spend the time to go get dinner with her. We've kind of made Tuesday nights a ritual where sometimes we'll do stuff with Jenna and Val. Sometimes we'll do stuff with the people that are visiting, but we always get time to catch up and see each other then.

And it's just the little things, as Jenna said, trying to when you do have that uninterrupted time, making the most of it, whether it's snuggling on the couch, whether it's watching a TV show and just being next to each other, whether it's talking about our day. We just try to find those little moments in the chaos and do the best we can at it. You guys aren't just killing it on the show. You're killing it in real life with these things.

Relationship goals. I mean, I'm inspired just listening to both of you have basically your shit together and know what it takes and how important it is. Fake it till you make it. The deal right now. Well, whatever it takes, whatever it takes. So you sound wise beyond your years for those, just the, you know, I need five or 10 minutes to get home and just stare at a wall because I need to come down. Yeah.

Yeah, because if I didn't, I would it would seem like I wasn't present in the conversation. And I just have been vocal about that. Like, I literally am still thinking about the last eight count I did and how I messed up that last dance move. Like, I just need a second if I didn't get enough in the car. And then I give her as much as I can when I get that time. And that's helped a lot.

Yeah, I know when I was on it, I had a six-month-old and three daughters at that time, and they were all super young. And I was married, and life was crazy enough before the show. And then, yeah, it just got like...

indescribably hectic. And so shutting off my mind, coming home to the kids and like jumping right back into what's for dinner. And, you know, did you do your homework? All the things a mom does. And then all the things that a wife needs to do. It's like, ah, there's not enough time in the day or enough bandwidth in my brain. Yeah.

to manage it all. So kudos. I don't get to complain at all. That's the, what you came back to. Yes, exactly. I will never complain once again is all that I just took from that. That's good. That's good.

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The show is such a pressure cooker of emotions. I know it was for me, especially as the competition goes on. It's stressful. It's fun, but it's stressful. What are each of you doing to unwind or do as self-care? Mm-hmm.

That chuckle tells me a lot. No, I think, you know, I love coming home. I love a bubble bath. Like if I have a night where I can just do a bubble bath and just block everything out, that's when I'm at peace. Also just doing like, for me, it's doing little things of being mom and having the time to do that. I feel like that brings me a lot of happiness. Although I don't,

I do feel like I have to be on. I really feel I'm not at my best when I'm missing my son and when I feel a void. So this last, this past week was really, really chaotic with Disney night. We had our individual dance. We had a team dance. We had an opening numbers pros. I think every day I started at five 45 and was home at like seven and

And I felt not myself. And I realized I just was missing my son. And I felt like part of my heart was gone all week. And so yesterday, Val and I went to the pumpkin patch with Rome, our little boy. And I just like felt replenished. I felt my cup fully fill back up. And then I'm re-inspired. I have more energy. So it's doing those things that you know are going to bring you a lot of happiness. But bubble bath and some Rome time. Mm-hmm.

I could definitely do better at this. As she said, I think that sometimes I am so in this whole experience and putting so much energy towards it. And I forget to give myself some time and do things that I enjoy doing. Um,

But for me, it's really just getting some type of alone time for me. I'm very simple in this regard. I've realized that when I give too much to other people, when I give too much to things that I'm doing, and I don't just give myself the ability to take it in and let my mind just kind of wander and actually think about what's going on in my head.

I will always feel kind of jostled and all over the place. And she hit last week exactly kind of was how I felt too. I mean, we just had such a long week and we had, I had extra things like a photo shoot to go with Kelsey. I had to go to dinner one night with her and her family. And I say had to, like, I wanted to go do this stuff.

But I did all of it and I realized I never gave myself that ability to give 30 minutes to maybe just have some time to yourself. I'm not a big meditation person. I just like to kind of have blank time and blank space where I just let my mind wander. So,

I did that a lot more these last couple of days and I need to keep doing that more of just giving myself the ability to think about what's going on, be grateful for things, organize some stuff in my head and then go back to the chaos right after. So yeah, I just, I just try to carve out little pieces of time. I don't need to be doing much. I just need to be able to take it back for a second. And that usually helps a lot. I'm on board with both of you. Bubble baths are my sanctuary. Yeah.

They sound nice. I don't do them. You got to try it. Epsom salts is you need the Epsom salts bath while you're doing this, Joey. Yes. I also spend a lot of time in my head too. And I found like when I'm so busy, if I'm driving somewhere to just have silence and

And just be with myself in the car and let my mind do what you said, like roam and think things through that just needs to process. That was really helpful for me. So just turn the radio down, turn the music off. Don't call anybody on your drive. Just be with yourself. That helps. Sure. For sure. For sure.

You know, you're deep in the competition now. It's not just about dance. It's about pushing yourself. It's about perseverance. What would you say that each of you have learned about yourselves through this experience, especially you, Joey, since this is your first time? I'm still learning a lot right now. Uh,

I think the biggest thing that I've learned is that I definitely am a hard worker, which I've always really tried to hold on to. I know that I'm not going to give up and put everything I can into this. I hope Jenna feels that way because I really do try every day, even if I am not maybe doing the best of my steps or feel a little bit off. I don't ever want to like give up. I want to put everything into it. But I think the biggest thing I've learned about myself is

is this game time type mentality thing that is still so new for me because you don't get put in that situation that much. Jenna can attest to sometimes where we're like about to go on stage and I am in my head, I am rethinking every single little detail

an example would be that tango night again we did a drum fill and I did I had to do a fill and I had to match it up perfectly and five seconds before showtime hit Jenna asked me to do it and I I did nothing close to what the actual beat was like I was completely off beat and I felt it I felt her energy right behind me she was like oh no this is gonna be bad and then something I didn't say any

thing, though. I just felt it. I was like, you're like, oh, this is going to be a thing. And I don't know something again that night, the moment clicks and I just have been able to bring something every time. And it's different every time, but I just have been able to deliver when it matters most. And something about that has given me a really great feeling like, OK, I guess in crunch time, I'm going to come when I need to. So probably

that and the ability of just how much effort you have to put in. I've been really happy with putting in the hard work. So I've learned that about myself, I guess. I think that's valuable information for you to know about yourself because, you know, that just doesn't pertain to this experience. Like in the rest of your life, you know, you can rely on your instincts and yourself when in those moments of high stress and high pressure.

And sort of alleviate some of that, what we do to ourselves when we freak out, you know? All the worry that isn't necessary. It's wasted energy if you really just trust in yourself. And that's what I'm trying to do better at each week is not have that worry because there's a mix. You have to be caring enough and thinking about it, but then you can't have wasted energy if you trust in yourself at the same time. Definitely. And you have to come prepared. Like you have to do the work and then at just some point, just give it up and

Trust it. Yeah. Trust it. Yep. That's hard. It's so hard. Joey, you have opened up about your Jill Bear syndrome, which affects your liver. And for those of us that don't know much about it, can you explain that and tell us kind of like, when did you realize you had it and how does it affect your life?

Yeah, I probably should get more knowledgeable on this since I have it, but I will explain it the best that I can from what I was told and just things that I've been paying attention to. I found out when I was in high school, I was sick for a pretty long extended period of time.

And I just remember telling my mom, like, I just feel off. Like, I feel very fatigued. Like, it's just hard to be doing normal things right now. So she got to the point of saying, well, we should go to the hospital or like go to urgent care or the doctor and just like figure it out. So we didn't go to the emergency room. We went to the primary doctor and they recommended getting a blood test. And when I got my blood test, my bilirubin count spiked very high.

which usually scares people and think it's something along with hepatitis, something that could be wrong with your liver. So then I had to go to the hospital and get an ultrasound of my liver. I believe it's an ultrasound is the correct way to say it. But again, I'm no doctor. But they checked and there was no abnormalities to it. And then I went to a specialist who explained what it probably meant. And it was Joubert syndrome, which from what they described it as is it's like a sponge thing.

In terms of your liver and most people, when they have water, have any type of electrolytes or hydration come through their body, it soaks up very nicely and then lets it out very nicely. But what happens with mine is my sponge is already ringed out and dry. So when it tries to have all this nice filtration, it doesn't work.

And that affects the yellow of my eyes when I get stressed. If I don't drink enough fluids, I can get very fatigued. I can be a little bit more on the tired side. And visually, people can tell because, again, when I did the TV show, which is why I had to talk about it,

When you get no sleep, when you're stressed about dating so many women and you have so much pressure on yourself, my eyes were very yellow on television. It was very obvious that something was off and I just had to finally talk about it because I just was tired of seeing it be a comment every single day. Uh,

And again, I want to go and get more knowledge on this. I haven't been able to do as much as I would like to because of how crazy schedules have been. But I would like to get more understanding because my sister just recently got tested and she has it too. And that was because of the fact that she was feeling similar things. So it's something in our family. You can live with it fully. It's not anything that's supposed to

I guess stop me in any way, but I do need to be aware of my hydration. I literally am drinking Gatorade light right now because I felt a little fatigue coming back from practice to get some more electrolytes and just get more fluids in my system. Um,

And that's the history I know of it. Well, I didn't notice your eyes at all. I was so engrossed in your journey that I didn't really see it. So there you have it. You did, but a lot of other people did. Okay, I'm the... I didn't comment on every single thing I would do. I was just like this the whole time. So I didn't notice.

But yeah, I mean, what are you doing to yourself? You're in another highly stressful situation. You're probably losing sleep right now. And yeah, it's important. You're seeing hydrated. I mean, are those the main things that you have to watch, especially in this kind of a physically strenuous, stressful job that you're doing right now? I can tell. I've had it and dealt with it enough that I know when it's at a bad point and it's that

at all time bad right now. Like it is very noticeable. I can tell that I'm just not taking enough fluids in and not doing as much as I can because it's almost impossible with how much we're doing, but I manage it and I've, I've felt honestly great and fine through this whole entire time. So it's just, yeah, I'm putting myself in a lot of high stress situations where I'm strenuous and doing a lot of stuff and

But as far as I know, I'm healthy. So I'm feeling good. What happens when you notice it kind of, is it a flare up? Would you say, or how do you notice that you- Yeah, it happened more, I would say, on The Bachelor than it does right now because Jenna is great with giving me enough time to have rest and we get breaks. And I feel like I've gotten in a really good routine with dancing. It's more, I would say, the mental than the physical side that's been tough with this season just because of how much it comes in. With The Bachelor, it was more-

Really, really long nights and just a lot of conversations and actually physically draining of what you had to do for that show. And it's a very high stress, short power time. So it was like a two and a half month stretch where it was a full on sprint, even though it was the length of a marathon, it felt like a sprint. And that one, it was just...

could tell there's just some days where i just i was yawning more i felt very very tired they always were trying to pump me with more energy they're like maybe joey needs a celsius or maybe he needs this i was like maybe he needs a nap like maybe we need to give him a little break but you don't get that on that show because time isn't isn't available and i'm glad i pushed through and i wouldn't have changed a thing about the whole experience

And I love everyone from that experience. But that was one of the first times in my life I was like, okay, yeah, something is a little off. But I had a great handler that was on the show that gave me a concoction every morning is what he called it. And he put collagen, liquid IV, and this huge thing of water and gave me fish oil, magnesium. Like he was just throwing me vitamins, just being like, we're going to make sure you survive.

Because he knew we can't have our bachelor going down and eat as much as I could. So and we got through that just fine. And the show was always aware of it. But it's it's just no matter anyone that's been in that position, energy is something that you want as much as possible. And I was in a position where I just didn't have my body didn't help me a lot with that. But we made it through. So we're good. You made it through with flying colors. So kudos to you.

Hi, this is Jenny Garth from the I Choose Me podcast. If you're managing a challenging mental condition, weekly therapy can sometimes feel like it's not enough. You may be looking for a way to spend more focus time on you. That's where Amend Mental Health Treatment Center comes in. I recently took a tour at Amend in beautiful Malibu, California, and the facility is so gorgeous and serene.

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Jenna, as a mother, relatively new mom and a wife and a dancer, I'm sure as any busy parent and spouse that you have days where you feel like you're crushing it in some areas and dropping the ball in others. And I know I love that you've talked about the fact that you've done therapy and how beneficial it has been to you.

So that is a very compelling. I choose me sort of declaration by going get therapy and, and, and deal it. Cause you're dealing with a lot. What has been your favorite mom moment of the week? Like your biggest triumph and your biggest, like, Oh, I could have done better. Hmm. I feel like I can always do better. So that's how we always feel. I know. Um,

No, I think last night Val was away. He was gone. And I just had a couple of hours one-on-one with Rome and we got to do our full route, our nighttime routine together. Just, just the two of us. And it was so special. And honestly, I cried through the whole thing because it's been a second since I've been able to do that. Just, just,

have that time together and feel like I was making a difference in his life. And it was just so special. And he just like snuggled me to bed. I put him down. He said, mama, love you. And I was just like, you know, those little moments are like, oh my gosh, he loves me. I'm doing something right. So I would say that of the week, that was my favorite. Just getting that like

amazing one-on-one time with him feeling reconnected and having those special moments as mommy and son. I mean, he's just, he's the best. It is the best. Do you ever get mom guilt?

All the time. I think Joey's seen it, especially the long hours on like, you know, we have our camera blocking day, which is a very, very long day. And then the next day is a show day. So basically Monday, Tuesday, I feel like I'm gone. Sometimes I see him and sometimes I don't. By the time I get back, he's already in bed. Those days are hard and it's hard not to feel like

man, am I doing the right thing? Am I making a mistake by or selfish by not being here for these moments? But again, it's back to that thought of like, this is such a short amount of time in the grand scheme of things. And I know that I'm so passionate about dance and I have a shot this season with Joey. And I know that,

These moments don't come often. So I'm going to take advantage of it. And I've been so grateful for the patience of Joey. You know, when I do have those moments of like being a little bit down, just reminding me that like, oh, no, you're good. Or like talking about Rome, just like bringing him up makes me feel a lot better, too. So I definitely have mom guilt, but.

I guess it's just part of being a working mama. I think regardless of like what your craft is, you're always going to have those moments. I'm sure you can attest to that. I don't know how you did the show with three kids. Like I'm surviving with one. Yeah. The mom guilt thing was always a thing, but I mean, I can look at it from the other side now and see how amazing my girls turned out despite the fact that I worked a lot and I did have passion for what things I was doing in my career and for myself and knowing that,

by putting my energy on other things than them, sometimes it showed them what, what it's like to have passion and how necessary that is in a person's life. And I think that that's something that invaluable that you're, you're giving him, even though it doesn't feel right. Yeah. And again, we try, we try our best, especially on show days. We'll have, um,

him come to set. And I think it's like, what other can say that their mom and dad were a Disney prince or princess this week on dancing with the stars. And he gets to like, see the whole set and crew and meet amazing people. So I do feel like there are so many benefits. Um, and I'm grateful for the show that they, they do make it accessible for us to have our kids on set and to make that a priority. I'm really, really grateful for that.

Yeah, that's, that's great. Do you and Val think that you'll have a little dancer on your hands? We will see. He, you know what? He loves music. He's very musically inclined child. Um,

He loves to sing. So whether that's going to translate into dancing, I don't know. I will support whatever he wants to do. We have a lot of dance in our life in general. So it might be nice if he does something cool. How about soccer? Yeah, how about sports? But yeah, we'll see. I think it would be crazy if he didn't fit into this world pretty naturally. But I don't want to push him into anything that he doesn't want to do. So we'll see.

Yep. You can just support them. That's it. Yeah. Okay, Joey, I was crushed when Kelsey's dad got voted off, eliminated. How do you get it? Unrosed. I don't know what you say, but I was pretty upset about it. How's he doing? How's Mark doing? Mark's doing great. I think a lot of people were upset, but, and I mean, I'll be the first to admit when we got the news, we were upset too. We were really rooting for him. From the beginning, I was like, he's the winner. He's the one. Yeah.

I mean, he's just such a lovable person. I think people got glimpses of that during my season on Hometown. But then to see more of him, to obviously have all these interviews and having him be back on TV, people kind of figure out how special of a person he is. It's just...

He deserves so much. And I think the one thing that you can't always see that I can at least share is he's one of those people that gives so much to other people. He is full force dad doing everything he can for Kelsey and all of their siblings. And you can just tell when you're around all of them how much he's thinking of them before he thinks of himself, which is...

I mean, the best thing a dad can do. But I was so excited for this season. And I'm still so excited for the fact that it's what this show brings. It gives them the ability to put themselves first and try to do something for them to meet all these other guys. He said it was the experience of a lifetime. He said it was better than therapy. You can look in his eyes when he say it and you know that he means it. So...

I am just so happy that he gained so much from this experience. And I have no idea what's going to be next for him. But I have no doubt that he didn't regret one thing. And he's just so grateful. And for that, I'm just very happy for him. Maybe they'll do a Golden Paradise.

And you can be on that. I would be there for it. I mean, I'm sure they would enjoy jumping in the pool. They're in it the entire time. They'd be in the pool drinking and having a good time. Yeah. That's one of the best things about watching it is like, just especially with the golden is that you see these, this group of people come together and support one another. And like, especially the men, they are around other men that are dealing with their feelings and, and,

All the things are coming up for everybody and then they talk about it. It just must be such, it's like group therapy every day.

Yeah, it happens even from the show when I was on The Bachelorette. It's very amazing the things that can happen when you take away all distractions and just put them out there. But there's something different about The Golden Crowd because it's even more special and it's more fulfilling to watch. We are still figuring out so much about life and don't have all these experiences to bring into play. So it's more of an eye-opening experience for us.

But I think on the flip side, the golden, it's more of an appreciation and a –

I don't even know it. Just there's something about it that feels so wholesome that they accept each other and uplift each other to this point. You just, you can't help but be like, we want all of you to be happy. It's not the same case when it's the young group, because you're like, this person's still figuring out exactly who they are and they got a lot of work to do, but it's at least nice that they're starting the process. It's different for the golden side. And it's special. It's really fun to watch. And all those guys I've met have been amazing.

Yeah, I can tell. I can tell. Okay, before I let you go, Joey and Jenna, what was your last I choose me moment? Joey, I want you to go first. I need to say. I was trying to say you go first. I'll go first. What was my last I choose me moment? It can be like you said, Jenna, bubble bath. But it might be extra hard right now because... That's the truth is, I feel like I...

I feel like I've been choosing myself a lot with like doing dancing was an I choose me moment, but I want to do something outside of that because tell you the truth, I did it because Kelsey was pushing me to do it. And I was like, you know, why not? It was kind of one of those things that I was, I was a little on the fence about, I don't know if I did it fully for me right away, but I'll say, I guess what I'll say is my, I choose me is I'm fully doing it for me now. Like there are moments in every day where I'm just, I am doing really well at leaving everything at the door and I am choosing myself of,

being fully in this. So I would even just say an example being today, like we got into practice, I had some stuff going on with personal things and things I was thinking about. And I was like, you know what, I'm going to leave it at the door. I'm going to choose to be here and just fully be invested in this. And I'm trying to have that mindset every day I walk into the studio. I don't know if it's a good one, but that's just the best I can do right now. Because sadly, dancing is all that's on my mind, because I'm really trying to dive into this. Perfect.

Yeah, it's weird because I kind of want to say similarly, you know, choosing to do the season as a mom is a big I choose me moment in itself. And I think I am putting a lot of pressure on myself this season because I

I was pregnant two seasons ago, so I missed out on a whole season. And as much as I needed that for myself and I needed a second to step away, it was such an eye-opening experience because I realized how much I do love the show and how much I love to create and collaborate.

choreograph and dance and how much I love watching somebody's journey on the show. So I had that. And then last season I got eliminated very early on. And so I feel like there's been this like fire inside of me for that.

the past two years that has wanted to come back and have a chance, a shot to like dance my face off with my partner and create some epic routines. And I feel like Joey and I are having that this season. And so in a weird way, this is my like, choose me moment. And I'm so grateful for that.

I get it. I'm so happy for both of you. And I'm here with my daughters. We're all rooting for you, just like we were for you, Joey, on The Bachelor. So I just wish you both the best and thank you so much for coming on.

Go dance. Go dance. Come on. You got to practice. We're going to keep dancing. I love that both of our I choose me's were also choosing each other and being in this. So that makes me happy. I think we both want this bad and we're going to keep doing it. So we appreciate the support. Yeah, you got it, guys. High five, teammate. Yeah. High five from everybody. Thank you so much. Thanks, you guys.

That was such a good combo with Joey and Jenna and just reliving all the memories I had from when I was back on the show.

rooting for them in this competition for sure. As we continue to choose ourselves each week, I want you to do something fun after listening to this podcast. I want you to dance. Dancing can not only be great exercise, but it can also release endorphins and bring up our moods. So this is your reminder, feeling stressed, feeling sad, feeling anxious about something.

Choose yourself. Put on that I Choose Me playlist that we made and take a 10-minute dance break. I promise you will feel better once you let go and bust a move like no one is watching. And you guys, do me a favor.

If you're loving the podcast, follow us on Instagram. And also, I would love it if you would go on to our show notes and rate us and review us because we love seeing that. My bosses love seeing that. And it's just cool to read what you guys are thinking and saying. And remember to use the hashtag I choose me. I will be here next week. I hope you choose to be here too.

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all opinions are their own and not a guarantee of a similar outcome. Daphne Caruana Galizia was a Maltese investigative journalist who on October 16th, 2017, was assassinated. Crooks Everywhere unearths the plot to murder a one-woman WikiLeaks. She exposed the culture of crime and corruption that were turning her beloved country into a mafia state. Listen to Crooks Everywhere on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey there, I'm Dr. Maya Shankar, and I'm a scientist who studies human behavior. Many of us have experienced a moment in our lives that changes everything, that instantly divides our life into a before and an after. On my podcast, A Slight Change of Plans, I talk to people about navigating these moments

Their stories are full of candor and hard-won wisdom. And you'll hear from scientists who teach us how we can be more resilient in the face of change. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, fam. I'm Simone Boyce. I'm Danielle Robay. And we're the hosts of The Bright Side, the podcast from Hello Sunshine that's guaranteed to light up your day. Check out our recent episode with dancer, actress, and host of Dancing with the Stars, Julianne Hough, revealing the healing journey behind her new novel, Everything We Never Knew.

I am showing up for my younger self and it is becoming a ripple effect energetically in my life. And that's why I feel so safe now. Listen to The Bright Side from Hello Sunshine on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.