97. Lauren McCluskey - The College Tragedy
01:00:58 Share

All right, you guys, we are jumping into an ad and I wanted to let you know that listening on Audible helps your imagination soar. Whether you listen to stories, motivation, expert advice, any genre you love, you can be inspired to imagine new worlds, new possibilities, and new ways of thinking.

Listening can lead to positive change in your mood, your habits, and ultimately your overall well-being. Audible has the best selection of audiobooks without exception, along with popular podcasts and exclusive Audible Originals. All-in-one, easy app.

app. Enjoy Audible anytime while doing other things, household chores, exercising, on the road, commuting, you name it. Audible makes it easy to be inspired and entertained as part of your everyday routine without needing to set aside extra time. You guys, since becoming an Audible member, I've found it so easy to fit more stories into my day. Recently, I've actually been listening to Twilight on audiobook and it's been a game changer during my daily walks.

So there's more to imagine when you listen. New members can try Audible now for free for 30 days with your first audiobook included. Visit audible.com slash MWMH or text MWMH to 500-500. That's audible.com slash MWMH or text MWMH to 500-500 to try Audible free for 30 days.

You guys, most weight loss plans are one size fits all. They don't take into account each person's individual needs, but Noom builds personal plans that can meet your individual needs. Noom takes into account dietary restrictions, medical issues, and other personal needs to build a plan that works for you and is built for your psychology and your biology,

meeting you where you are. And you guys, I actually have been using Noom Weight and it truly feels personalized to meet my lifestyle. What I love most is that Noom doesn't restrict what you can eat and it actually doesn't shame you when you choose to treat yourself. Noom's personalized program has felt more sustainable than other more restrictive weight loss programs.

Noom Weight uses psychology and biology, and that's why they say losing weight starts with your brain. The program helps you understand the science behind your eating choices and why you have cravings and actually helps you build new habits for a healthier lifestyle. So stay focused on what's important to you with Noom's psychology and biology based approach. Sign up for your trial today at Noom.com. Today, Noom has helped more than 5.2 million people lose weight.

Hey everybody, welcome back to our podcast. This is Murder With My Husband. I'm Peyton Moreland. And I'm Garrett Moreland. And he's the husband. And I'm the husband. Okay, so we have a couple things we need to talk about real quick. The first one is about our upcoming live show. I promise you do not want to miss this.

Seriously. Okay. So we were receiving a couple of questions about it. So I do want to clarify that the live show is online. Like you'll log onto your computer, you'll use your ticket and you'll watch it live. And there will be like a comment stream that's live and everything. So that will be the live show. We'll do an episode. And then after the live show, there's an exclusive after party that you can also attend. And there we will be playing games.

doing a live Q&A and just hanging out and basically just celebrating the 100th episode together. Yeah. Also, if you can't make it and watch it live,

online, if you buy a ticket, you can watch it for up to seven days after. - Correct. - So just an FYI. And then after that, I mean, the episode will never air again. - It's exclusive. - We'll have it for nostalgia on our end, but we're not gonna post it anywhere. We're not gonna post clips anywhere. It's just gonna be the exclusive 100th episode celebration. - And there will also be just a regular episode posted that week if you feel like you aren't able to buy a ticket to the live. So I did just wanna make that clear. So there will be a normal scheduled episode that week.

But the live is the celebration for the 100th episode. And honestly, I feel like we just want to do something with you guys. And this was the best way to make sure that everyone could come, that we could all be together to celebrate. And so I'm so excited. We're super excited. We're nervous, like we talked about before, but we're really excited. Yeah, I mean, you'll have to bear with us. We have it all planned and everything. But if we mess up or something, I guess that's the glory of a live, right? Yeah.

All right, so the next thing we wanted to talk about is the upcoming changes that will be happening to our Patreon come February 1st. So when February starts, we have actually decided there's an option for you to receive two extra bonus true crime episodes on top of the four that you already receive a month.

So that's six true crime episodes a month is an option on our Patreon. This is the first time we're doing that, but I feel like people are here for true crime. And so that's something we really want to be able to do. And now we're there. We can actually finally do this. Last but not least, you might, well, actually, if you're listening on podcast, you won't notice, but just you can feel it through the mic. Yeah. Can you not feel this? Can you not feel that we have merch on? So we actually both are wearing our strangey dangy merch.

which is available right now to pre-order if you buy a ticket to our live show. And if not, it will be dropping soon and you can order it just like any other merch drop. So if you want to check it out, you can go check it out now. The same place where you buy a ticket to our live show. If not, like Peyton said, it will be dropping in a few weeks.

weeks. Okay. Thank you guys so much for supporting us. Thank you for being here as we grow and we learn and we get to experience all these fun things. I'm sorry we had to kind of take care of a few things, but I need you to know everything. I need you to know everything new and exciting that we're doing. So thank you for listening and thank you for loving us. Okay, Garrett, do you have your 10 seconds? So I've been getting up really early to, you know, go exercise, get my body moving.

And I've been going to the same gas station like every morning to get something to eat and to drink. And I think they're starting to recognize me.

- Which, okay, two things. Number one, I think it's funny that they're starting to recognize you. Number two, we are so different because when I get up early to go work out, I set my alarm to the absolutely like latest possible that I can to put my clothes on and leave and go and make it to class. The fact that you get up 20 minutes earlier just to make a stop at the gas station,

Who are you? It wakes me up. I get up. I've been getting up at like 4.45. Yeah, I aspire. I've been getting up at 4.45. It's horrible, though. I'm going to be honest. Because then I come back home and then Peyton's up at that time. It's like 8 o'clock. And then I'm just, I'm done. I'm so tired. Yes, and he did say 8 o'clock because he spends three hours playing pickleball in the mornings. That's true. He's an addict. Also super random, but...

So Peyton and I wanted to paint the outside of our windows black. Like we started a long time ago. And so we hired a company to come paint our windows black. Because there's no way we could do that by ourselves. We were like, oh, this would be nice. I guess it'll be cool to paint them black. Anyways, we currently have half of our windows finished because apparently it's too cold and the paint will run or whatever they're using will run.

And so, I don't know. Half of the windows on our house are on the outside are black and half of them are white. So it just looks kind of funny. And it's been like that for months. Oh, like four months now. Yeah. I just thought I'd throw that out there. Maybe the company's listening and maybe they'll come back and paint the windows black. We won't say their name yet. We're not going to say anything. No, but it's not their fault. So we're just kind of waiting. All right. That's my 10 seconds for today. I'm going to keep looking for like questions and the YouTube comments and Instagram and

and Facebook and emails, everything. So if you have anything you want me to talk about or say, leave it in there. I promise one day I will be amazing at this 10 seconds. You're good at it. It's kind of turned into, you know, like a minute or two, but it's catchy now, 10 seconds. All right, so our case sources today are...

scholarshipstats.com, biographymask.com, stalkingawareness.org, heavy.com, thecinemaholic.com, dailymail.co, and a Dateline episode called She Did Everything Right. Okay, so as we come to the end of January, I want to acknowledge that January was National Stalking Awareness Month, which obviously coincides often with the cases that we cover.

And so to remember how serious stalking can be, today we will be covering the highly suggested case of Lauren McCluskey. You say highly suggested, like I should know this, but I don't know this. So I say highly suggested because I don't think it's

super well known, but it happened in Utah. - Oh, okay. - So I feel like a lot of our original listeners who are around this area were constantly suggesting this case. That's why I say highly suggested from our little corner of the world. So our case this week starts in the college town of Pullman, Washington. Lauren McCluskey was born in this vibrant town and both of her parents, Jill and Matt McCluskey were college professors at Washington State University.

From a young age, Lauren was active. She like, she learned how to walk at nine months old and began climbing trees at just two years old. I'm one of those naturally gifted people who are just so graceful and athletic and very, very active. Jill and Matt noticed that Lauren was pretty competitive growing up. And so they decided to introduce her to track and field when she got old enough. It's obviously an individual sport that is all about competition. So it would be perfect for Lauren.

And it wasn't a mistake because Lauren quickly excelled at the high jump and hurdles. Medal after medal began to collect in Lauren's room as she made her way through middle school and then high school. It was pretty safe to say that she was becoming a track star. By her senior year, Lauren McCluskey is excelling enough in track that many D1 schools are actually reaching out to her and looking to recruit her.

And having her pick, Lauren decided to accept the scholarship offer and sign with the University of Utah track team located in Salt Lake City, Utah. - Okay. - According to a study taken in 2020 from ScholarshipStats.com, there were 498,131 girls who ran track in high school in the States.

And only 6.8% of girls who run track in high school make it to the college level. Wow. I feel like that's like any college sport, right? Yes. Yes. And that statistic drops down to only 2.5% of all girls make it to division one. Crazy. Okay. So that being said, I just want to point out how hard Lauren like would have had to work not only on the field, but in her studies to make it to the university of Utah as an athlete.

And Lauren's parents were super proud of her, but wary of her moving away alone to go to college. I think this is a common fear among parents, especially if said college is in a bigger city. But people, along with the university itself, reassured them that Salt Lake City is a big city, but is one of the safer cities in the U.S.,

The University of Utah is a great campus and they reassured her parents that Lauren would be safe there. Jill and Matt were promised that basically it was kind of part of the pitch when they were recruiting her. And on top of that, Lauren was a very responsible kid. She was a dedicated athlete who cared about her studies. She wasn't a partier. She didn't drink.

nor was she ever very active in dating. With all of this in mind, Jill and Matt were really only left to worry about Lauren driving in a different place with a safe car. So they did their research and bought her the safest car out there before sending her off to Utah to start her own life. What was the safest car at that time? I don't know.

Oh, dang it. That statistic doesn't exist. And I looked on the sources to try to figure out like during this year, what would have been the safest car? And they didn't say. They just noted that they were so stressed about getting her the safest car. I guess it's like some Honda or something. It has to be something like that, right? Yeah, I don't know. Good question. Maybe a smart car. No, I'm just kidding. Yeah.

We got you the safest car, honey. If anyone has a marker, that's awesome. We're just saying they're small. I don't think they're very safe. That's why I said that. So it was August 2015 when Lauren moved to Utah to start her freshman year. Coincidentally, this was the same year and same semester that I left my home state to attend college at UVU, which is only 40 minutes away from the University of Utah.

Lauren met her roommate, Alex, and instantly the two became best friends, which is such a relief because moving in with a random roommate can be so scary. I watched interviews with Alex and she is so sweet and kind and bubbly. And I would definitely have wanted to be her friend too. Alex and Lauren continued to hang out as school started and they basically did everything together.

And for the next three years, all the way to their senior year, they studied together, roomed together, found friends together. All while Lauren remained dedicated to her schooling. She was majoring in communications and her spot on the track team.

She had been on the track team all three years and was really excelling in her events. But another thing that hadn't changed much since freshman year was the fact that Lauren still wasn't dating very often. She had a lot of guy friends that she hung out with, but just had never really found a boyfriend. Nothing wrong with that. No, nothing wrong with that at all.

By August 2018, the start of her senior year, Lauren and Alex decided to go to a bar in downtown Salt Lake one night. And it was during this night out that Lauren actually met someone, which was pretty rare. It wasn't like she would go out with the end goal of meeting someone. She usually just wanted to have a good time with friends.

But this specific night she hit it off with the bouncer or security guard. Like I think that's what they're called at the bar. Okay. He was a 28 year old man named Sean Fields. He,

He had let Lauren and Alex in that night and kept an eye on them while they hung out. When they went to leave, Sean and Lauren began talking again, and it ended with Lauren giving Sean her number. The next morning, Alex asked Lauren if Sean had ever reached out to her after they left the bar that night. And an excited Lauren told her, yeah, he actually did. And they had already planned a date for that afternoon.

Sean Fields told Lauren that he was a part-time computer science student at a nearby community college. And after their first date that went unusually well, more dates followed between the two. And it eventually got serious enough that Lauren called her parents back in Washington and told them about Sean. She told them that it all kind of fell old-fashioned, which she liked. He would ask her out on real dates.

He would pay close attention to her and what she liked, just things that were honestly getting harder and harder to find for her in the college dating world. And Jill and Matt could hear it in Lauren's voice. She was definitely in love with Sean. The way she talked about him, they just knew it. It wasn't long after that that Lauren and Sean became exclusive boyfriend and girlfriend.

Alex, her roommate, wasn't surprised. She had never seen Lauren like this. Only about a week and a half after she met Sean, Lauren talked about wanting to be his girlfriend. Alex and the rest of Lauren's friends described her as completely smitten. Okay, so everything seems great so far. Yes, everything seems normal. They have a great relationship. Everything's going well. But...

It wasn't long after they became exclusive that those exact friends who were happy for her at first began to worry for Lauren. Hmm.

Lauren had been independent basically her whole time at college. She had a good head on her shoulders and really had her life together. But as soon as she began dating Sean, her friends began to notice her independency slipping. Lauren was not only smitten by Sean, but would have done basically anything for him. Alex noticed that anytime Sean texted Lauren, it didn't matter what she was doing. She would immediately stop and make sure to reply right away.

It's not that her friends were necessarily against the relationship. It was definitely just weird to see this change in Lauren so suddenly after knowing her for three years. And you said she's never had a boyfriend before? She's dated and I don't think she's ever had a serious boyfriend. But the sources didn't really say anything about a serious boyfriend. Like about her having a long-term boyfriend previous? No. And I was just going to say, I think that's probably normal. Everyone has a relationship at some point where it's not that...

You're not all in when you're dating later kind of like I don't like your first boyfriend or girlfriend you're it's like innocent Yes, so obsessive. Yes. I mean I'm like obsessed with you, but it's just it's different It's different you guard your heart, you know to have boundaries, you know, because you've learned right that if you go all-in You can get hurt if it's not the right person like there's still life, right? Right like she's like she's still on the track team, which she's I'm guessing we're not there yet But I'm guessing maybe she's slipping there, you know, just right grades all this stuff, right?

So when Lauren and Alex actually go back to the bar that Sean works at one night while they're dating to see him during his shift, Alex was put off by the fact that Sean was demanding that Lauren stay up and wait for him to finish his shift so that she could give him a ride home. Despite the fact that Lauren needed to go to bed because of what you were just saying, she still has a life outside of Sean.

And it was one of those moments where Sean kept saying it over and over at first, kind of jokingly, but then not. And it made Alex uncomfortable. Like when your friend keeps saying no, and the guy turns lightly aggressive and almost demands it like, no, you're going to stay up and pick me up.

I would say that's super uncomfortable as a friend to sit there through that conversation. And that wasn't the only thing that bothered Alex, because the next night when Lauren and Alex were hanging out, just the two of them as friends and roommates, Sean kept bothering Lauren, demanding to know where she was and who she was with, despite the fact that she had told him numerous times she was just hanging out with Alex that night.

And it was these red flags that began waving heavily in front of Alex basically any time Sean was in the picture, concerned for her best friend and roommate.

Alex tried to nonchalantly bring it up to Lauren as she was watching it happened. And I think this is something like as a friend, we've all been in that situation where we feel like we need to tell our friends something, but that friend is super into this and you might be against it. And so you're kind of like treading lightly. Like, do I say something? Am I overreacting? It never works. It's to me, it's the same thing. Like when you're in high school, you're younger and your parents tell you something and you're like, absolutely. They don't know what they're talking about. Right. Right. In all reality, they do know what they're talking about.

Okay, you guys, shifting my wardrobe from summer to fall can be a challenge, but I'm telling you right now, my Quince products that I have, my Quince clothing items are my go-to staples in the fall. They make it so easy. They have timeless, high quality items. I use their silk skirts. I literally wear them in so many ways with boots, with tights, with a sweater, with a crop top.

They have cashmere sweaters from $50, pants for every occasion, washable silk tops, so much more. And the best part is that they are priced so well because they partner directly with top factories. So they cut out the cost of the middleman and then they pass the savings onto you. So you are literally getting cashmere sweaters for $50. I love it.

I just got a cashmere sweater from Quince that I am going to be wearing. I also have a pair of their linen pants. I'm actually just going to pair them together. I will post it on my social media and you will see it. So make switching seasons a breeze with Quince's high quality closet essentials. Go to quince.com slash husband.com.

For free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. You guys, if you want free shipping, make sure to do quince.com slash husband. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com slash husband to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com slash husband. They have the cutest clothes. You need to go check it out.

Shopify is the global commerce platform that helps you sell at every stage of your business. From the launch online shop stage, the first real life store stage, all the way to the did we just hit a million orders stage. Shopify is there to help you grow. Shopify helps you turn browsers into buyers with the internet's best converting checkout up to 36% better compared to other leading commerce platforms.

and sell more with less effort thanks to Shopify Magic, your AI-powered all-star. Peyton and I love Shopify. We have been using it for, I mean, I've been using it for six years now, so many years, and it's amazing. It just keeps getting better and better with more updates. It's easy to use. It's user-friendly. Shopify powers 10% of all e-commerce in the US, and Shopify is the global force behind Allbirds, Rothy's, and Brooklyn, and millions of other entrepreneurs of every size across 175 countries.

Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at shopify.com slash husband, all lowercase. Go to shopify.com slash husband now to grow your business no matter what stage you're in. Shopify.com slash husband.

So she tries to bring it up to Lauren as she's watching it happen. She questioned whether this kind of behavior is normal in any relationship, let alone a brand new one like Lauren and Sean's. But Lauren reassured Alex, Sean's just protective and give him some time. He will begin to trust me and not worry anymore. Just watch.

So not wanting to push the disagreement because Alex still disagreed. She just decided to drop it. She tried talking to her. It didn't work. So she was just going to let it go. Meanwhile, Lauren and Sean get into a fight.

And Sean reacts angrily and he storms out. When Lauren told her friends about the fight, she took blame for his behavior, telling them that she doesn't ever want to do or say anything that would make him have to react like that again. So she'll change, which is a huge red flag. You are not responsible for anyone's reactions or behavior.

But when Lauren's other friend, Diamond, found out about some of this concerning behavior the rest of her friends were seeing, she too began to question Lauren and Sean's relationship. According to Diamond, Lauren didn't really have a ton of dating experience, which is what you were trying to say. And so Lauren might not know that this is weird.

She might believe that telling him where she is at every moment during the day and going all in this early is just what you do with a boyfriend, but Diamond knew better. It was just concerning for all of Lauren's friends.

So Diamond decides to sit down Lauren and try to talk to her, even though Alex had just tried as well. Diamond was an older graduate friend who had dated many people. And so she tried to explain this to Lauren, tried to explain that Sean's behavior was not normal, that this shouldn't be what's happening. I guess at this point, Sean was forcing Lauren to take pictures of people when she was out without him to prove that that's who she was with. Oh, no.

Oh, right. And so Diamond is like, hey, next level. This is not protection. This is not love. This is control. And this is concerning. And like this should not be happening. But once again, Lauren assures her friends that, you know, he just wants to make sure she's safe, who she's with, which I mean, this is kind of what you're talking about. But I think those Prince charming qualities are.

are all fun and games until we realize that it's not reality and guys probably shouldn't track down every single maiden in the area and force them to try on the shoe to see if it fits. Like that's just not it and that's not real life. But sometimes it does take dating a guy like this to learn. I mean, you might not have, but which one of us hasn't had a toxic relationship that we learned from?

I probably wouldn't have found someone as great as Garrett if I hadn't have learned from my past relationships, to be honest. Oh, thanks, babe. Yeah, you're welcome. So I say this because none of this is Lauren's fault. I said, yeah, like, yeah. I'm great. I'm perfect. I just want to clarify because I'm not blaming Lauren for not seeing the signs. I think everyone goes through a relationship like this. Some of us are just luckier than others to get out. Mm-hmm.

Only just a few weeks after their relationship began, Sean has practically moved into Lauren's dorm room. Remember, he doesn't go to school here and he's 28.

He made friends with most of the people at the dorm. So was actually able to come and go without a key card because everyone would just let him in. So he would just kind of stand at the door and wait for the next person to come and let him in. And this was all fine, except for the fact that Lauren's friends began to notice that Lauren was sleep deprived and stressed.

In fact, they claim that you could literally see it on her face, how drained she was. And this is because now not only is she in her senior year of college, which is probably the hardest year, she's also on the track team. She's also trying to, you know, complete her communications degree. And now she's basically living with her first boyfriend. And then to add onto that, the fact that Sean was kind of emotionally demanding and mentally abusive, it's just not good. Like it was too much for Lauren to take.

And it was around this time that Lauren turned to her friends to inform them that Sean was getting her a gun to protect herself. What? And all her friends could think is, from what? Like, we've been living here for four years, three years, and we've never been in danger. And I think it's one thing if, I mean, if she was like, hey, I want to get a gun to protect myself. But like he... Him forcing it? Oh, yeah. Him forcing it is...

- Right. And her friends are like, well, have you ever been in danger? Do you even want to carry a gun? And also you have to have a license to carry a gun on campus 'cause you have to conceal it. And so you have to have a concealed carry at least in Utah. And so does she have like a concealed carry permit? You know what I mean?

And Lauren explained, actually, no, I don't have a permit, but Sean's just going to give me a gun that he already has. So I don't have to go use my permit to buy one. Oh, well, that's illegal. Illegal. You can't do that. Right. So there are a lot of issues with what Lauren had just told her friends. But something that Lauren didn't realize was Diamond, one of her older friends that we talked about earlier, actually worked for the student housing on campus and was Lauren's dorm resident.

So illegally having a gun in your dorm room was against policies, like obviously. So Diamond kind of already against Sean and wanting to have Lauren's back decided to go and report the conversation she had had with Lauren to her superiors and tell them about Sean's plan to give Lauren a gun.

She even wrote an email to the university about it. And according to Diamond herself, the responses she received from housing officials were not very proactive. They kind of pushed off the report. And although she tried to follow up multiple times, like, can you please just check in on this? I'm worried. They pushed her off as well, telling her they would get to it. They never got to it. Weird. Right?

Right. That's so strange because usually schools are like on top of that, usually very proactive and they're all about that. Right. Anything, anything, any rules. They're all about like, you know, enforcing the rules. We have to enforce this and enforce this. And I didn't live in a dorm, but I've heard like the dorm residents. Like, I mean, I feel like that's a pretty strict thing. And maybe that's just like rumor mill I've heard on TV. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know much about that. But I mean, she was her dorm resident. And so it was her responsibility to report this.

So by late September of 2018, Lauren's friends are officially against Lauren's relationship with Sean, like full on. They feel uncomfortable around him and they hate the way he treats her. They hate the way he talks to her. And then this whole gun thing just kind of threw them over the edge. And then something happened in October that for maybe the first time really got through to Lauren about Sean.

Lauren was looking for something and came across Sean's wallet. She pulled out his cards and noticed that something was off on his ID. She stared at it longer until it sunk in. The picture on the ID in Sean's wallet was of him standing there in the DMV, but the name on Sean's ID was not Sean Fields. No way. His ID had a completely different name on it that she had never heard before. Was it close? What was it?

Melvin. Melvin. Yes, Melvin Roland. No way. Yes. That's not even close to Sean. No. So suspicious but scared, Lauren decided to turn to Google before confronting Sean about what she had just discovered. Now, I think this is sign number one that despite...

you know what she was telling her friends that she wasn't worried. Lauren knew something was wrong or else she wouldn't have been scared to ask him about this. Yes. Cause if I found an ID with your picture on it and a different name, I would immediately go to you and be like, why is this? What are you doing? Why is it like this?

So that night, Lauren skeptically opened up her computer and did some investigating on her own. And what she found would shock anyone. Sean Fields didn't exist. In fact, most of what Lauren thought she knew about her boyfriend was a lie. His real name was Melvin Roland and he wasn't 28. He was 37. Holy crap. 16 years older than Lauren.

And he was a registered sex offender convicted of enticing a minor via the internet and forcible sexual abuse. Oh my gosh, I'm speechless. Right. A lot of questions. I know there's a lot to the story, but I guess how can you pass for a 28 year old is 37? I mean, I guess it's possible. There's a lot of people that look younger. Right. So I had the same thought, but if I saw the picture of this guy, I would have thought he was a college student.

- Oh, really? - Yes, he doesn't look like he's 37. - Okay. How long have they been dating at this point? - Like two months.

So not long, but long in terms of how serious they've gotten. Because I guess I'm trying to figure out, have they talked about meeting each other's families? Have they talked about like families on the phone? Because I feel like even when we were dating in the early stages, I like met your parents on FaceTime, you know, things like that. Well, I'm just always super open with my family. Yeah. I know a lot of people aren't. So I mean, everyone's different. But also, I mean, her parents hadn't met him.

They had heard about him, but her parents had never talked to him. So I'm going to guess they haven't crossed over that boundary of meeting parents or talking on the phone to parents. Got it. So Melvin Rowland had spent nearly a decade in prison and was sent back twice for breaking parole.

In a 2012 parole hearing six years earlier, Melvin had referred to himself as, and I quote, this is on audio, like you can hear this, a womanizer who manipulated women to get what he wanted. Every woman I've met or that came across, I used my manipulation tactics to get what I wanted. He also shared that he was attracted to teenage girls and couldn't stop trying to lure them to him online.

He admitted to forcing at least three young girls to have sex with him during his life. What a creep. What an absolute creep. Right. A rightfully terrified and betrayed Lauren turns to her friends and mother for support. She tells Alex what she found out and Alex is like,

Okay, so break up with him and Lauren tells her that she will but she's just scared like she doesn't even know how she doesn't even know how to have this conversation When Lauren tells her mother Jill about what she had discovered She also asked for help and about how to break up with him She had never done this and she's fully aware of how he reacts in situations that don't go his way She just wanted to know the best way to do this. That was the most safe and

Lauren's mom tells her, okay, well you need to immediately sever ties with him and never see him again and get as far away from him as possible. Like this is not good. This is not normal. He's going to hurt you. Right? Like this is bad news. I mean, this is catfishing. This is abusive and wrong. So that night Lauren invited Sean over who we will now call Roland because that's his last name. And that's the name that he went by. So it's Melvin, but he goes by Roland. Yes. Okay.

So she was frightened and nervous for this meeting, just sitting in her room waiting for him to come over. But then while she's sitting there waiting for Roland to show up so she can break up with him, she looks over and notices that Roland is standing outside of her dorm room window, staring at her through the window when he arrived instead of just coming inside. What? Yeah. So she was even more uncomfortable now. She kind of laughs it off, you know, and he walks in, but she's like,

What is, why is he doing that? This was just flat out creepy and making Lauren very uneasy. So when Roland finally made his way in, Lauren confronted him with what she had found. She tells him, listen, I know your real name. I know your age. I know your past. And Roland frantically tries to explain to Lauren that he was set up. He was framed. He didn't do what he was accused of.

Lauren tells him, okay, I understand. Like I understand. But at this point she says she really feels like they just need to break up and move on. Like, even if you're telling the truth, you still lied. I'm uncomfortable. This needs to end. But every single time she asked him to leave, Roland would corner her almost physically pushing up onto her.

Roland stood at six feet tall and was 174 pounds of pure muscle from the pictures. Like the pictures of him, he is like a muscly dude. Is anyone in the dorm with her or like close? Something like that? I don't think so. Alex, her roommate does like talk about this situation and she talks about, you know, him pushing up on her, but I don't know if that's because

Lauren told her that he did that afterwards or because she was there like in the situation, either way, no one interjects or tries, you know, no one stops it.

So because of Roland's size, there is no way Lauren would be able to fight him off. And I think he knew that, which is why he began using his physical strength to pressure the conversation because she was like, leave. And he couldn't fight back with words anymore. So he started, you know, using the only thing he had against her. Roland refused to leave. Minutes turned into hours. And pretty soon, Lauren is exhausted after begging Roland to leave all night.

Night and the Sun had now come up and they were still at a standstill in Lauren's apartment makes no sense He's just like I'm not leaving. I'm not leaving. She's like you need to leave and he's like nope Oh, no, super toxic super bad super manipulative - right, right like everything He's doing is for a purpose is for a reason I'm saying yes, so Lauren decided to give in and

She agreed to let Roland take her car, which is something he had asked for. And I think this is because he figured if he took her car, then he would have something that she needed. So he knew he would have to see her again. Exactly. And so Lauren knew this. So she said, she was like, okay, no, you can't take my car until the sun started coming up. And she realized he really isn't leaving. Like we're at a standstill. So she says here, take my keys and leave. You promised. If I give them to you, you would leave. So here they are. You need to leave. And he did. Yeah.

He's like, okay, fine. I'll leave now. Took her car and left. Hola. ¿Cómo está? Hola, ¿cómo estamos? Want to learn a new language? Well, the best way is to uproot your entire life, move to Spain, and live there for the rest of your life.

I made that up. I went off the ad. Let me go back to the ad read. The best way is to uproot your entire life. Drop your... Oh. You literally followed the ad. I didn't read the rest of that. Drop yourself in the middle of a new country and figure it out from there. I just want to let everyone know that's what I did. But... That's what I did. It worked. If you're not ready for that, you can still learn a new language the next best way. And that is with Babbel. See you.

Speak like a whole new you with Babbel, the science-backed language learning app that gets you talking. Wasting hundreds of dollars on private tutors is the old-school way of learning a new language. Babbel's 10-minute lessons are quick and handcrafted by over 200 language experts, ready to get you talking your new language in three weeks, because talking is the key to really knowing any language.

Designed by real people for having real conversation, Babbel gets you talking. You guys, I actually use Babbel to brush up on Spanish when we travel. I love it. It is so easy. And then I can actually kind of keep up with what's going on. And with over 16 million subscriptions sold, Babbel's 14 award-winning language courses are backed by a 20-day money-back guarantee. So there's no pressure. Buy Babbel and travel.

Here's a special limited time deal for our listeners right now. Get up to 60% off your Babbel subscription, but only for our listeners at babbel.com slash husband. Get up to 60% off at babbel.com slash husband spelled B-A-B-B-E-L.com slash husband. Rules and restrictions may apply. Okay, let me guess. Your medicine cabinet is crammed with stuff that does not work. You still aren't sleeping, you still hurt, and you're stressed out. That's it.

That's how it was for me, so I cleared out my cabinet and reset my health with CBD from CB Distillery. CBD Distillery's targeted formulations are made from the highest quality clean ingredients, no fluff, no fillers, just pure effective CBD solutions designed to help support your health.

In two non-clinical surveys, 81% of customers experienced more calm, 80% said CBD helped with pain after physical activity, and an impressive 90% actually said they slept better with CBD. I have personally used CBD before to help me sleep. I used to have a lot of trouble sleeping and I couldn't figure out what to do to help. And honestly, CBD did help and if that's something you're struggling with, give it

Give it a try. Check it out. If you struggle with a health concern and haven't found relief, make the change like I did to CBD Distillery. And with over 2 million customers and a solid 100% money back guarantee, CBD Distillery is the source to trust. You guys, we have a 20% discount to get you started. So if you've ever wanted to do CBD, now is the time. Visit CBDistillery.com and use code husband for 20% off. That's CBDistillery.com.

Dot com code husband. CB distillery dot com code husband. Lauren called her mom in a panic. What was she going to do now? Roland, this guy that she didn't trust, didn't know and was really scared of, had her car that she needed. Lauren tells her mom that Roland had said that he would leave her car in a random University of Utah parking lot for her to pick up later that day. OK. And Lauren's mom, Jill, was like, absolutely not.

She told Lauren that Roland seemed dangerous and like he was playing games. Why wouldn't he just drop the car off at her apartment and leave her alone? Why was he trying to get her to go out to a parking lot to pick this up?

At this point, Jill, Lauren's mom, decides to call the University of Utah campus police and ask for help. She was states away, she couldn't protect her daughter, a random guy has now basically taken her daughter's car hostage, and she needs help. So Jill told the campus police the situation, how Roland had lied about his age and name and refused to leave her daughter's apartment all night, and now he had her car and was demanding that she pick it up alone in an empty parking lot.

She didn't like it and her daughter not only needed her car but protection from Roland. Campus police got a hold of Lauren on their own and sent an officer escort with her to get her car back from Roland. The exchange went smoothly and Lauren made it back with her car safely. Jill decided to call the campus police again and thank them for their help and for watching over her daughter when she couldn't.

After getting her car back, Lauren and her parents both were finally able to take a breath. It seemed like this was just a weird bump in the road, something, a bad mistake, something that had happened and now they could put it behind them. Oh, this one is, I don't know. I just feel sick. I don't know what's going to happen. I just don't feel good. Well, and they felt okay until messages from random numbers began flooding Lauren's phone.

They claim to be Roland's friends. And the texts were basically guilting Lauren for breaking up with Roland. Things like, how could you do this to him? He loved you. And the next text would be, he's a great guy. Don't believe everything you hear. Why are you doing this? And these are multiple numbers. So at this point, he's 100% stalking.

- Yes. - Like that's what's happening. - Yes. But Lauren and her friends felt like, you know, these texts are not coming from Roland's friends. They're coming from Roland himself. I mean, what are the chances? Why wouldn't they stop? How many friends would actually do this? They would look at him and say, "Stop, like you just need to leave her alone."

Lauren decided to just ignore the texts as they kept coming. And I do want to say here that I think stalking is something that we as society kind of just brush off like, oh, that you have a stalker, which is whatever. But the point I'm trying to make here is that I think having a stalker, like a real life stalker who invades your privacy and keeps texting you or stuff like that is way more uncomfortable and uneasy than we think. I

I've had moments where someone has kind of just made me feel uncomfortable with their actions. Not to the point where I'd even tell anyone because they would probably think I was like, you know, making a big deal out of something. But it's really scary and you can't stop thinking about it. Like it just plagues your mind. You're like, oh, that made me uncomfortable. I just didn't like that. You know what I mean? And that's on a mild spectrum, right? Like imagine...

having to always think in the back of your mind that someone is constantly stalking you or out to make their presence known in your life when it's completely unwanted. All she wants to do is pretend like Roland never even existed. Yes. And my thought is, are they planning something even worse? And I think that's probably what anyone who's being stalked is thinking. It's just not okay. And I really do feel for victims of stalking on all spectrums, but the unwanted texts from Roland's friends, um,

keep coming despite the fact that Lauren is just flat out ignoring them. And with each text that she ignores, the next text that comes in is a little more desperate. First, it's that Roland got into an accident and could really use Lauren right now. Then it's that Roland is now in the hospital, you know, and if she wants to go see him or something, like it would really help. And she eventually receives a text that Roland had died and it was her fault.

Give me a break. Right. She knows it's not real, correct? Yes. Okay. But...

I mean, the text just won't stop coming. At this point, Lauren had blocked all of the numbers and it just came in from a new number. And so she called her mom about what the last text she had just received said. And Jill told her that if he had died, it would have been reported on and they searched and they found nothing. Plus, Lauren continued to check in on Roland's social media accounts and discovered that he was still posting after someone sent this death text. And so she's like, "He didn't die. She knew he was alive."

But just a few days later, she received a text from a different number asking if she was going to Roland's funeral.

And at this point, Lauren decided that she had had enough. She was like, I'm, I'm ignoring, I've been trying to move on and you won't leave me alone. What, what do you do? Can, I mean, I assume you can report this to the police and everything, but it's probably so difficult, correct? It is so difficult. And that is an issue. Stalking is a crime, especially these days with social media. I mean, you can get a restraining order on someone, but they can make

New phone numbers. Right. They can make fake accounts. Which is what's happening here. There are so many things that can be done that. For someone to act. How do you get rid of it? So gross. How do you avoid it? Right. So Lauren decided to reply to this number. She said, I know he's alive. Please leave me alone and don't text this number. I got police involved. Which she did. She immediately called campus police. Good. Once again. Yeah. The ones who had helped her earlier and told them that Roland was

was still stalking her. She explained that she feels like whoever is texting her and harassing her is trying to lure her somewhere. They're always talking about like, are you coming to the hospital? Are you meeting here? Do something like that. And she's scared. She's like, I just, I want them to leave me alone. I'm uncomfortable and I don't like it.

But the campus police responded by asking her if any of the texts were threatening physical violence against her. Lauren told them not necessarily. I mean, they didn't come right out and say they want to hurt me, but she was worried if she didn't comply soon, something might happen. They weren't stopping. The texts weren't stopping. Police told her to call them back if any of the texts ever threatened violence. But until then, there wasn't much they could do.

Okay. So this is a serious problem. You were just talking about it when it comes to domestic violence, stalking and harassment that mainly targets women, but of course men too. And I want to share some stalking statistics according to stalkingawareness.org. These first ones relate strictly to college campuses.

One in 10 undergraduate women are victims of stalking in college. One in 10. That's a lot. One in 33 men, undergraduate men are victims of stalking. Okay. 33% of students stalking relationships are from a former intimate partner.

The most common stalking behavior experienced by college victims is unwanted text messages or phone calls. People with disabilities, LGBTQ+, Native American, and biracial, multiracial people are at higher risk for stalking victimization than the general student population. Now, when it comes to stalking in general, one in seven stalking victims literally move houses as a result of their victimization. One in seven? That...

Wow. Like to just pressure someone's life so much. Less than one third of states classify stalking as a felony upon first offense. And just like our case today, unless the stalker or harasser threatens physical violence to their victim, police do not get involved enough to protect the victim. So the stalker has to physically tell their victim that they want to physically harm them

which to me by that point would be too late if they're already physically threatening them. And they have probably already been mentally harmed and feared for their life for some time. So back to our story, campus police have just told University of Utah student Lauren McCluskey that she will need to reach back out if the messages escalate.

And they did. The next day, Lauren received an email stating that the sender has explicit pictures of her and Roland and they will be posted on social media unless Lauren pays to keep them off. So she was blackmailed. Lauren decides to call campus police again. She tells them once again that she has been harassed and stalked and now she's being blackmailed for $1,000 to keep explicit photos off the internet.

She says the only person who would have photos of her is Roland, but the call ended and not much was done. So Lauren decided to pay the $1,000 to keep the photos private and then went to the campus police and security office in person to file a report.

her roommate Alex went with her. I want to clarify that what just happened to Lauren is illegal. Yes. Like blackmail is illegal. But when she filed the report with the office, they told her that it was most likely just a scam and she didn't need to worry. And they're not like, it's, it's not actually a big deal. Which I would say yes. If she hadn't been stopped for the last,

X amount of time now, you know what I'm saying? Like it might've been a scam if some random person just emailed you and said that, but because she's been stalked now for X amount of time, it's obviously something's going on. Right.

Lauren looks at them and she's like, no, it's not a scam. Like I, she says exactly what you just said. Like Roland has been stalking and harassing her ever since she broke up with him. And now he, the only person who had these explicit photos of her is threatening to post them. Campus police tell her that, no, that your theory is probably wrong. What most likely happened was Roland's phone was hacked and

and someone now has the pictures and is blackmailing both Roland and you. No, that is not what's happening. Right. They assure her that Roland is not out to get her and he's not doing this. A 37-year-old guy just pretended to be a 28-year-old guy who's on the sex offenders list. Right. And has crazy charges. Right.

So Alex, her roommate, claims that during this whole meeting with campus police, she felt like the police were kind of just accusing Lauren of overreacting. Like, you're just making a big deal out of this. It's fine. But Lauren knows. She knows that this is happening and she knows that it's Roland. So that same evening, she decides to call the Salt Lake City police instead of campus police and ask them to do something. She wants Roland arrested for her safety.

She's been blackmailed. Like it's illegal. The Salt Lake City police hear her whole story and she tells them campus police might just take longer. They might not have the resources to help me with this exact type problem. And then the Salt Lake Police Department follow procedure by sending her back to campus police who have jurisdiction over her case. Oh my gosh. So they tell her they can't do anything.

And all of these phone calls are on record and can be heard today. So over the next few days, Lauren calls the campus police multiple times, enough that she eventually gets an officer's personal cell and they exchange over 16 calls about her case. Her asking for updates and help all while still receiving texts from random numbers, like the stalking is still going on. Police say that Lauren

Police told her that they will get back to her on progress on her case. They never did. And by now, Lauren was scared, worn out, and tired. Her friends are worried. She's not her usual self. She's unhappy. She's just kind of moping through life. And I want to point out here that it has only been 10 days since Lauren broke up with Roland.

Like all of this has happened in a 10-day period, which shows you how urgent Lauren was and how often all of these texts and everything were coming in. A few days later, Lauren receives another text. This one says, what did you tell the cops? We know everything.

- What? - Lauren once again calls Salt Lake police and tells them that she has been reporting to the campus police at the university, but they aren't getting back to her. And now the person who is harassing her has reached out and told her that they basically know she went and tattled. And so she's like, I'm scared. Like they know I came to you guys and I'm scared and I need protection.

The Salt Lake police refer her back to campus police because she's a student. Oh my gosh. Someone needs to do something. Right. So Lauren immediately calls the campus police detective assigned to her case on the phone. And the detective tells Lauren that someone probably just hacked her account and got the details of her reports and is now scamming her. What? Is everyone a hacker all of a sudden? Right. Hack everything. I'm so confused. Right. And so they tell her once again that she has nothing to worry about. And Lauren is like,

Yes, I do. Like, I'm not making this up. Yes, I do. So it's now Monday, October 22nd. And another text comes in from an unknown number. This time, the text claims to be from a campus cop who is asking Lauren to meet him in private.

So Lauren informs the campus police about the message, questioning its authenticity based on the fact of all the other messages that have come in. And the campus police confirm that it came from no one from their office. It's just someone joking around and she needs to ignore it. Joking around. Someone who has been harassing her every day is now impersonating a police officer, which is illegal, and asking her to meet in private. And campus police tell her to just ignore it. Yeah.

No offer to go to the meeting and find who the impersonator is and say, hey, you can't impersonate a police officer. So Lauren ends this conversation defeated and tired. She continues on with her school day with absolutely no help from anyone.

Later that night, Lauren is on the phone with her mom as she parks her car in front of her apartment building and gets out to head inside. Jill is listening to Lauren talk about an assignment that she needs to finish that night when all of a sudden on the other end of the phone, she hears Lauren scream. No, no, no, Lauren yells. And then Jill hears the sound of her daughter getting tackled.

Oh my gosh. Jill calls out for Lauren over the phone, but there is no answer. Lauren doesn't have the phone up to her ear anymore. Jill calls her name over and over, helpless, from her home in Washington, hundreds of miles away. Lauren is not answering. So her dad, Matt McCluskey, calls the Salt Lake Police Department and informs them of what had just happened. He thinks that Melvin Rowland, her stalker, has just kidnapped his daughter while she was on the phone with her mom.

Meanwhile, chaos is breaking out at the University of Utah campus. They just sent out an alert, shooting on campus, secure in place.

And I remember seeing this live as most of our friends. Wait, I remember this. Most of our friends were living in Utah at the time and posting about it. I totally remember this. So police were blocking off streets. So many police cars and lights. Security was demanding that every student stay inside and locked down. So I'm confused. Was there a shooting? Was there a kidnap? I mean, I guess you can get into it. Right. So no one knew it was happening.

Hours later, police released the news that a student had been shot and killed on campus. Oh my. And then they released the photos of the suspect because he's still at large. The suspect?

37-year-old Melvin Rowland. And although they didn't release the name of the victim, all of Lauren's friends' hearts sank. They knew who the victim was. After all of the calls to police and all the steps she took to protect herself against this, Lauren McCluskey had been murdered.

She was shot multiple times and her body left in the back of a car in the campus parking lot. Jill and Matt McCluskey were informed of their daughter's death that Jill heard on the phone. So did,

Did she hear her daughter being shot or was she being tackled? Do you know what exactly happened? Just tackled. So around midnight that night after a citywide manhunt for Roland, he was spotted near a church. By the time police arrived, the church doors were locked.

When they busted in to check it out, they found Melvin Roland inside. He had just taken his own life by gunshot when they were entering. So earlier that night around 6 p.m., after Lauren had talked to police again, she then attended some night classes. There is security camera footage during this time of Melvin Roland lurking and loitering around and inside of Lauren's apartment building holding a bag while she's gone.

doing nothing but walking around, standing, and watching for hours. I cannot believe after everything, he then goes and kills her. Right. Like, I just, I can't comprehend it. I really can't comprehend that. Yeah. Not only was he a creep, and he stalked her, and was obviously a horrible person, he then went and killed her. For no reason. Like, are you serious? Yeah. And I think that's...

About true crime what kind of frustrates me sometimes it's just it's unfathomable. Yes, and it's just it's frustrating it can be so frustrating because this is a real person who just got killed for a

No reason. There's no other way to explain it. Right. So after two hours of walking around her apartment, you can clearly see Roland on security cameras make his way out to the dark parking lot as Lauren finally pulls up to park for the night. He walks up to her while she was on the phone with her mom and attacks, eventually shooting her multiple times inside the car he drove to campus.

He then called a different woman to pick him up. He had met this woman on a dating app and together they went to dinner and then went back to her apartment where Roland took a shower.

She dropped him off at a coffee shop afterwards and called police because after they went home and Roland was in the shower, she saw the photo on the news about him because there was a shooter at large. Minutes after Roland had murdered Lauren and police figured out who the victim was and who most likely the suspect was, they looked further into Roland because this is their suspect. He just killed someone on campus.

And they discover that not only was he a convicted sex offender, he was also actually currently out on parole at the time of all of this. Was this not looked into when she had reported it a million times? Nope. And you're about to hear the consequences of that because how did that happen? Yes. Police dug deep enough to discover this only after it was too late and he had killed Lauren who had been begging for help for weeks.

Lauren had complained numerous times against this man. And there was no one who had even looked him up and discovered that he was on parole, which would have possibly gave them the opportunity to take him into custody. I mean, he is breaking his parole by stalking someone. It's illegal. Not to mention his admittance of owning a gun, which you can't do on parole and

also having a social media account, which he wasn't allowed to do on parole. So there were so many reasons to take this guy into custody if they had just searched his name when she came in and complained about him. Such an injustice and letdown for Lauren. If they had even checked into Roland's status, they could have possibly prevented this. Lauren reported to police over 20 times in under two weeks. Oh my gosh. The University of Utah requested a review of Lauren's case and the handling of it by campus police.

Meanwhile, the police chief, Del Brophy, was defending their work in press conferences around the city. He claimed that at no point did Lauren ever say that her life was physically in danger. So they followed protocol. What? I get it. I understand what he's saying. She didn't ever say he had physically hurt her, but she did say that she was scared. That she was scared for her life. Yeah.

The review eventually concluded that there were shortcomings both systemically and individually in Lauren's death. So this review finishes and they're like, yeah, we screwed up. There were 30 recommendation for changes to be made to prevent this in the future. They basically said we did not have the infrastructure set up to handle stocking like we need to make changes so this doesn't happen again in the future.

After this review came out, the University of Utah president, Ruth Watkins, announced that the report offered no evidence that Lauren's death could have been prevented.

Even though it literally did. Are you kidding me? So Lauren's parents could not believe the president said that. They were devastated. They were devastated. A university representative has come forward and made the statement that changes will be made in procedures, but no one will be fired. In fact, they honored the officers who helped her get her car back on the first call. So they said, we did do this for her.

- Right, so they're just trying to save face at this point. Two years after all this happens, the University of Utah police chief Del Brophy went on to retire amid criticism. And then possibly worst of all, Miguel Derris, who worked at the University of Utah as a campus police during Lauren's murder,

was fired from his new job at the Logan Police Department after it was revealed that he was showing off those explicit photos of Lauren. You are kidding me right now. Nope. He showed at least three officers about it, bragged about it. Wait, how did he get them? Because he was working her case and he kept them. He kept them. Oh, they were sent in the email? Yes. Oh.

Oh my gosh. Yes. So in October 2020, Jill and Matt McCluskey agreed to settle a lawsuit that they filed against the University of Utah for $13.5 million for the mishandling of Lauren's case. Take it all. And the sharing of her explicit photos by one of the officers who had already screwed up and cost Lauren her life. That's crazy.

In January of 2021, the University of Utah president, Ruth Watkins, who said that this couldn't have been prevented, announced that she would be stepping down. Jill and Matt have started the Lauren McCluskey Foundation to honor Lauren's legacy. This is from the website. As a young adult, Lauren was always there for her friends and those outside her network as a leader, a resource, and as someone who listened.

Lauren was an outstanding student athlete at the University of Utah. Lauren's murder exposed several flaws in how many campuses respond to incidents of dating violence and stalking throughout the whole United States.

Our mission is to let Lauren's light shine by supporting her passions, including animal welfare, athletics, and by making campuses across the country a place where students are safe, supported, and have the ability to thrive. And this foundation has gone on to change a bunch of protocols on campuses when it comes to stalking and domestic violence.

They want everyone to know the light shines in the darkness and the darkness has not overcome it, which is John 1.5. My heart breaks for Lauren and her parents in this situation. Not only did they lose a daughter, but they then had to be hurt over and over again by departments who would refuse to take responsibility and truly apologize.

And they have settled the lawsuit, and those people have stepped down. But, you know, like, it's hard. I wish that they could feel better. I wish that we could have prevented this. And I want them to know that everyone who is listening from the MWMH family loves them and remembers and honors Lauren, and that it was too big of a price to pay to do all of the good that they have now gone on and done since Lauren's murder. And that is the story of Lauren McCluskey. Ah, it's horrible. I mean, all of them are horrible, but it just...

Sucks, you know? I think it sucks because all of these cases go on to make changes, right? Yeah. Learn from our mistakes. Which is good when you need changes, but it sucks that there has to be consequences before. Right. There has to be an action before, which...

Yeah, it just sucks. Right. And I think this one hurts especially because she was asking for help. Yeah, she needed help. And it kind of does go to that stereotype of how many times does a woman have to ask for help before she's taken seriously? Yeah. And it's like this case is a shining example of that. She reported over 20 times. And I know the changes have been made and we've tried to do the justice that has been done, but Lauren still lost her life. Yeah, 100, 110%.

which is just heartbreaking. It's just like, he couldn't leave her alone. No. It's just gross. It's weird. It's infuriating. Creepy it is. Yeah, and it's like,

He got to the point where he wasn't getting what he wanted. And so he had to murder her. Yes, exactly. And that's what I'm saying. It's frustrating. But what we can do is honor her and remember her and look up the foundation and understand that the good that it's doing and remember Lauren for who she was. Yes. All right. We love you guys. And thank you so much for listening. And we will see you guys next week with another episode. I love it. And I hate it. Goodbye.