121. The Norrmalmstorg Robbery
01:02:05 Share

It's that time of the year. Your vacation is coming up. You can already hear the beach waves, feel the warm breeze, relax, and think about work. You really, really want it all to work out while you're away. Monday.com gives you and the team that peace of mind. When all work is on one platform and everyone's in sync, things just flow wherever you are. Tap the banner to go to Monday.com.

- All right, probably not expecting me to start this ad, but I'm gonna start this ad. The Skims ad. And let me tell you about something that Peyton's been wearing. The Skims Soft Loungewear is amazing. It feels great.

- Payne wears it, she looks great, she feels great. - Okay, it has completely transformed my lounge wear game. I love everything I own from Skims, you guys know this, so does my husband, especially my new pieces from the Soft Lounge Collection. And I kid you not, you guys, it is soft. It is the softest fabric.

It makes me feel both confident and comfortable. And it's not just loungewear. It's actually the first thing I reach for no matter what my plans are for the day. And my favorite piece is the soft lounge tank paired with the fold over pant. You guys, I have tried every ribbed tank on the market. Nothing beats this one. And it looks so adorable.

with the pants set. It is like just the most comfortable go-to outfit and the soft lounge sleep set. I have two of them and it is like sleeping on a cloud. It feels good. You feel put together at the end of the night. You guys, it is lightweight, comfortable, and stylish. I live in it. Also, if you're thinking about getting it for your significant other, just do it. They'll love it.

Shop the Skims Soft Lounge Collection at Skims.com. Now available in sizes extra, extra small to 4X. And if you haven't yet, guys, be sure to let them know that we sent you. So when you go to checkout, please don't skip this step. After you place your order, select Murder With My Husband in the survey and select our show. The drop-down menu that follows, it's a great way to support the show. It lets them know we sent you. Again, you guys, go get murdered.

soft lounge from Skims. The entire collection is so good. And then let them know Murder With My Husband sent you. Okay, we love you. Bye. Hey everybody, welcome back to our podcast. This is Murder With My Husband. I'm Peyton Moreland. And I'm Garrett Moreland. And he's the husband. And I'm the husband. Dang, our virtual live episode is coming up so soon. I'm so freaking pumped. Two weeks.

I don't know if we mentioned this, but that we were covering the Casey Anthony case on our live episode. Yeah, I think we mentioned it last time. Yeah, so Garrett hasn't heard that, and I know most of you listening have, so I'm excited for the comment live stream. We picked this case on purpose so that all of us can talk about the case as we're covering it and then also see Garrett's reaction to hearing a case later.

that we all infamously know but he has no idea what it is and if you are a member of our patreon you actually get discounted tickets um to the live shows that i i did just want to mention that if you were thinking about maybe doing both that might be a way to go also real quick before we hop into it i just wanted to say our apple subscriptions there were some weird issues with some of the episodes not being ad free but everything should be fixed now okay go ahead with your 10 seconds

all right well nothing new with the hoa sorry everybody we'll see if there's any more drama next week but as of now we brought in our trash cans this week so

We're being good. I guess we decided to follow the rules. On the bright side, we are officially aunt and uncle. Yep, we are aunt Petey and uncle Gary. That's a first one for us. My brother just had his first baby and we got to go see him at the hospital yesterday and it was like the coolest thing ever. So crazy. Babies, I don't know, it's just crazy. Yeah. They're just so small. I know. Yeah.

It's just crazy that you're just like this little tiny human at some point, you know? Yeah. So we're pretty excited about that. So congrats to them. I'm currently wearing my workout clothes. So if you're watching on YouTube, it's because I'm going to play pickleball after. So that is the reason I'm wearing those. And it's been super hot where we are. We've had like this huge heat wave. So we've barbecued a couple of times, but it's been almost like too hot.

I know it has been like suffocating when you walk out the door. It's been like 100 plus every single day, which I mean, I get it's summer. Everyone who lives in actual hot states are about to be in our comments like, you know nothing about the heat. Everyone from Arizona right now is like, it's 116 degrees. Yeah. Like, I'm sorry. Hot's hot. Yeah, hot is hot. I feel like I get that 116 obviously is hotter than 100. I feel like at some point it's just like. Dude, it's hot. It's hot. Yeah. It's really hot outside.

All right. Last thing, something that Peyton and I are trying to get better at is cooking. And so we cooked a meal the other night. That wasn't HelloFresh because we only ever cook HelloFresh. But we cooked a meal that was supposed to take, I don't know, 45 minutes, right? Two hours later. It took us like two and a half hours and we made sure to eat it. Yeah. Because it took so long. And it still was not. Well,

When you cook something for two hours, it's not enjoyable after that. It's just why I hate cooking. It wasn't. Halfway through, I was like, I'm just going to get DoorDash. Yeah, this is so gross. Like, I can't do this anymore. I know. Anyways, we did it. We stayed true and we cooked it and we're trying to get better at it. We are. It's a goal of ours. So on that note, let's hop into our case.

Okay, I am puppy sitting my mom's dog and she's on my lap right now, but under this blanket. So if it suspiciously moves in the middle, it's not a ghost. It is just her adjusting. Our case sources for this week are The New Yorker, History.com, SmithsonianMag.com, Time.com, HistoryByDay.com, TrueCrimeEdition.com, MyClevelandAndClinic.org, Daily.JSTOR.org, MacroTrends.com, TheCinemaholic.com,

Netflix, thetillmango.com, TripAdvisor, Google Maps, and then Wikipedia. Okay. So according to the Cleveland Clinic, Stockholm Syndrome is a coping mechanism to a captive or abusive situation. People develop positive feelings toward their captors over time, and people with Stockholm Syndrome form a psychological connection with their captors and begin sympathizing with them. You've heard of Stockholm Syndrome before? Correct.

The Cleveland Clinic also notes that this condition can apply in other situations involving trauma or abuse as well, and not just in hostage-taking cases. This condition can apply to situations including child abuse, coach-athlete abuse, relationship abuse, and sex trafficking. According to the Cleveland Clinic, again, experts don't know why some people develop Stockholm Syndrome and some people don't.

It's believed to be a rare psychological condition and it is theorized that feeling compassion for one's abuser or captor, particularly where the captor shows them some kindness and doesn't harm them, may help secure the captive person's safety. So they're thinking maybe it's just like psychologically they think they have a better chance to survive if they start to sympathize with them, not as a cover, but like legitimately their body just starts doing it.

Okay, so it doesn't become an act at some point. It becomes real. Real.

Stockholm syndrome has not historically appeared in the manual as many believe it falls under trauma bonding or PTSD instead. And there is no consensus about the correct clarification. So essentially some experts believe it and some don't. However, we can't deny the fact that it is well established that certain behaviors and coping mechanisms can result from highly traumatic situations.

Victims who bond with their predators, whatever the reason, it's real and it's indisputable. So where did the term Stockholm Syndrome even come from? And what case was confusing enough that it coined that term?

That is the case we are going to cover today. Interesting. All right, let's do it. So our episode begins in Stockholm, Sweden. Stockholm is the capital of Sweden and is made up of 14 islands and has more than 50 bridges connecting the various parts of the city. According to Macro Trends, the population of Stockholm in 1973 was 1,024,000, a decline of 0.49% from the previous year. So yes, our case is happening in 1973.

Our whole case is actually going to take place in the Normum neighborhood in Stockholm. Um, and you'll understand why we are going to specifically stay in this neighborhood. And before we go any further, I do want to mention that I looked up how to pronounce a lot of these Swedish words and it took me a really long time and I'm probably still going to mess them up no matter how many times I practice. So just beware. TripAdvisor says that the neighborhood of Normum is Stockholm's busiest and most central area.

Unlike an American suburb, Normum Storg Square is a central square located in the Normum neighborhood. It is considered to be an upscale, beautiful, and historic square. The reason we are staying primarily in this exact neighborhood, particularly the Normum Storg Square, is because our episode takes place in a bank located in this square. And inside this bank,

for six days to be exact. Credit Banken was located on this square in 1973 and Credit Banken as an entity is no longer around today. - Was it because of what happened? - Yes. - Okay. - But we are back on Thursday, August 23rd, 1973. It's a normal busy day in this Swedish square where everything is about to change.

Mm-hmm.

That's cool.

crazy that he actually had a machine gun. I know. And also just, I feel like sometimes... Like a machine gun. What in the world? Yeah. Like we think of a bank robbery. That's not what you're thinking. Yeah. So the man then yelled in an American accent,

The party has just begun. So he was American or he just yelled it in an American accent?

At this time in Sweden, violence was rare and extremely uncommon. And even more than that was the rarity of robberies. The number had been rising, but not nearly as fast or as popular as bank robberies were becoming in America at this time.

The robber then put the radio on the bank counter and turned it up full blast. It was at this point that the intruder looked around the bank and analyzed the situation. At gunpoint, he ordered a male bank employee to tie up three separate employees with some rope he took out of his bag. Three female bank employees were the ones he tied up.

Those women would go on to later be identified as Kristen Inmark, Birgitta Lundblad, and Elisabeth Oldgren. After the male bank employee finished tying up these female workers, the robber stood in front of them, officially taking them hostage. He then yelled out, I want to talk to the police. The bank, like all Swedish banks, had a silent alarm system and at least one person and likely many in the bank had already triggered it.

the police arrived on the scene almost immediately a police sergeant in plain clothes sergeant morgan rylander was the first to identify himself as a police officer to the robber rylander spoke in english to the robber okay so i need to probably explain here that this bank is two levels two tiers and

And this robber is on the main floor with everyone. And then the second floor is where the police are coming in at. And it's almost like, just think of it as two separate entities. Just because he's in the main part does not mean the police have like officially taken over the bank as well. It's almost like two separate places.

but the police are just upstairs and he's downstairs with the hostages. Okay. The robber then demanded to speak with a higher up officer. So Rylander went off to summon one. And while he was gone, a detective in plain clothes again appeared from the upper level in the bank. And this time this detective was holding a gun. Birgitta, one of the women that was tied up, screamed at the officer, don't shoot.

Now I'm thinking this was because she was scared that if he tried to shoot the robber, the officer would most likely hit one of the hostages. Okay, I was going to ask, I'm surprised no one is shot. Right, well, because he has the three hostages already. Yeah. So the robber demanded to know who this other detective was. The detective then identified himself as a police officer and told the robber to drop his weapon. The robber then fired his submachine gun at the officer and hit him in his right hand, causing permanent damage but not death.

Rylander, the original officer that was on scene that day, then came back with a higher ranked officer, Police Superintendent Sven Thorander, who was chief of the police homicide and violence squad. The robber ordered Thorander to take off his coat and turn around to make sure that Thorander wasn't armed.

It was at this point that the robber started making his demands. Now notice here how his initial reason to invade the bank does not appear to be money or robbery because his first or second line was, "I need to speak to police." It almost sounds, and also the line he said when he first came in, it just seems like, I don't know. This is more than just taking money. Correct.

So something else is going on. The seemingly American robber wanted 3 million Swedish kronor, which translated to about $710,000. He wanted half in Swedish currency and half in foreign currency. He asked for a fast getaway car and he also asked for two pistols. Significantly, he asked that the three hostages be allowed to escape with him in the car.

He demanded that he and the hostages all be supplied with helmets and bulletproof vests to get out of there. The robber pointed his gun at the hostages and says, if anything happens to them, the police will be to blame, not me. But

But then the robber made a final demand that would give away his whole reasoning for being there, a demand that would lead to his identification. The last demand the robber made was for the release of a criminal who was currently serving a six-year prison term. Okay, here we go. That prisoner was a man named Clark Olofsson. The robber wanted Clark to be transported to the bank and freed in order to provide assistance in the robbery and the escape. How long was he serving again?

A six-year prison term. Six years? I feel like you would just wait it out. Yeah. Why would you... Just serve. Six years. I mean, it's a long time, but it's not like it's a 20, 30-year sentence. Right. So I'm surprised he's doing all this for a six-year term. Right. So this prisoner, Clark Olofsson, was born on February 1st, 1947, and was 26 years old at the time of this bank heist. Right.

He was serving time in prison for an armed robbery that had resulted in the death of a policeman. Clark was well known among criminals for his exploits involving robberies and escaping from prison. Indeed, Clark was in solitary confinement at Norcaping prison when he was drawn into the bank. So when this robber comes in and says Clark's name, Clark was serving in solitary confinement in this prison.

Also, side note, I'm surprised you only got six years for... Killing a police officer. Correct. Keep in mind, we're not in the United States, and usually there's a harsher punishment for that here than in other places. Okay. Clark Olofsson and the robber first met at Calimer Correctional Institution. Okay.

Most sources actually call him Clark since the two last names of the robber and the prisoner are similar enough to cause confusion. So I will call him Clark. But the robber asked Clark for information while they were serving in prison together about how to rob banks and deal with hostages, information which the robber would then use during this bank heist. According to the recently released Netflix series Clark, which is based on Clark Olofsson's life,

Clark grew up with an abusive father and the series portrays Clark as being obsessed with women and portrays him as falling in love with many women. Clark became well-known among criminals for his many prison escapes. So he was a well-known prisoner and criminal.

Within a few hours of the beginning of the takeover robbery, the police began carrying out the robbers demands. Now, if this seems odd, it's because the Swedish police at this time were so unaccustomed to robbery and to violence in general.

and were so adverse to it that they would go to great lengths to accommodate his demands in order to avoid the bloodshed of innocent people. So they were basically like, we'll give this guy whatever he needs as long as no one dies. It seems like he's not trying to kill people though. It does. Like it seems like,

He's doing everything to avoid killing somebody. Yes. Okay, let me guess. Your medicine cabinet is crammed with stuff that does not work. You still aren't sleeping, you still hurt, and you're stressed out. That's how it was for me, so I cleared out my cabinet and reset my health with CBD from CB Distillery. CBD Distillery's targeted formulations are made from the highest

highest quality clean ingredients no fluff no fillers just pure effective cbd solutions designed to help support your health in two non-clinical surveys 81 of customers experienced more calm 80 said cbd helped with pain after physical activity and an impressive 90 actually said they slept better with cbd i have personally used cbd before to help me sleep um

I used to have a lot of trouble sleeping and I couldn't figure out what to do to help. And honestly, CBD did help. And if that's something you're struggling with, give it a try. Check it out.

If you struggle with a health concern and haven't found relief, make the change like I did to CBD Distillery. And with over 2 million customers and a solid 100% money back guarantee, CBD Distillery is the source to trust. You guys, we have a 20% discount to get you started. So if you've ever wanted to do CBD, now is the time. Visit CBDistillery.com and use code husband for 20% off. That's CBDistillery.com.

.com code husband cbdistillery.com code husband

Shopify is the global commerce platform that helps you sell at every stage of your business. From the launch your online shop stage, to the first real life store stage, all the way to the did we just hit a million orders stage. Shopify is there to help you grow. Shopify helps you turn browsers into buyers with the internet's best converting checkout up to 36% better compared to other leading commerce platforms.

and sell more with less effort thanks to Shopify Magic, your AI-powered all-star. Peyton and I love Shopify. We have been using it for, I mean, I've been using it for six years now, so many years, and it's amazing. It just keeps getting better and better with more updates. It's easy to use. It's user-friendly. Shopify powers 10% of all e-commerce in the US, and Shopify is the global force behind Allbirds, Rothy's, and Brooklyn, and millions of other entrepreneurs of every size across 175 countries.

Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at shopify.com slash husband, all lowercase. Go to shopify.com slash husband now to grow your business no matter what stage you're in. Shopify.com slash husband.

So the police provided the robber with three bags of Swedish bills worth the equivalent of $350,000. The robber, however, rejected the money police had brought him, noting that the serial numbers of the bills were numbered in consecutive order, meaning that the bills would be capable of being traced. And so he was like, I want different money. I don't want this one. He told the police that he wanted older bills in less pristine shape, which took the police a couple of additional hours to secure.

Meanwhile, police told the robber that the only demand they wouldn't be able to meet was allowing him to leave with the hostages, the three women he had taken. Those were innocent citizens who police could not comfortably allow to continue on in this dangerous situation. During this whole time, the robber was standing guard against his hostages and eventually as morning turned to afternoon, he even

allowed them one by one to use a bank phone to call home to their families and let them know that they were okay. Yeah, that's what I mean. It doesn't seem like he's not trying to hurt anybody. Right. I'm not saying what he's doing is okay. I'm just pointing out the obvious right now. Right.

So the events that unfolded during this bank siege were well documented. The police placed video cameras inside the bank while they had been in there, along with microphones near the bank vault, which captured conversations happening inside during the whole entire thing, which is how we know so much detail. Much of the information in this outline comes from the extremely well-researched and well-written piece in The New Yorker, The Bank Drama by Daniel Lang, dated November 18th, 1974.

It was at this point in the timeline that witnesses began noticing the robber consistently chewing on caffeine tablets to stay alert and not get sleepy. By 4 p.m., police have located Clark Olofsson, the prisoner that the robber has asked for, and they immediately pulled him out for transportation to the bank to help them get the hostages out and identify the robber. So they're like, we're going to shove this prisoner in here. We're going to do exactly what this robber asked.

in hopes that number one, we can identify him, and number two, we can get the hostages out of there. Clark arrives at the bank after the police get him out of prison, and the police initially had Clark in handcuffs when they brought him through the bank entrance to the second floor, but they then removed the handcuffs and sent him down the staircase to the main floor and into the bank, into the hands of the robber who asked for him. And everything

everyone was kind of noticing that Clark was acting extremely confused by all of this when police initially thought that Clark had possibly planned this to get out of prison. Interesting. I'm now I mean, I have my own theories. I'm now wondering if he wants to kill Clark. Right. Like is Clark not in on

this because Clark's acting super confused. This is weird. Clark reportedly saw the robber and didn't immediately recognize who it was because he said in Swedish, what's going on here? A couple seconds passed while Clark studied the robber's face and finally recognition dawned. Oh, it's you. He said.

It was at this point that the robber stunned everyone. He calmly greeted Clark in perfect Swedish, which was the first time during this whole heist that he had not spoke English. Holy crap. Police realized immediately that just possibly the man in the bank was not even American, but he had been faking an American accent this whole time. That's smart. The robber's demeanor had completely changed once the police allowed Clark to join him in the bank.

He calmed down, he untied the hostages, and he stopped yelling. After this, Clark and the robber began working together. But it seemed like to all of the witnesses that there was a possibility Clark was not originally in on this. Again, everyone's feeling like Clark has been dragged into this as well. It was obvious he knew the robber, but he didn't say who it was, and it was not apparent whether or not he had helped plan this to begin with.

Either way, the robber would not allow Clark to leave the bank and he was still holding the three women hostage. So a standstill began. At one point that night, Clark was checking the inside perimeter of the bank when he came upon a man named Sven Safstrom hiding in a bank storeroom.

Sven had ran for cover when all this had happened, and Clark apparently felt he had no choice but to take Sven as a hostage as well, which was not part of the robber's original plan. So Clark then led him to the robber, was like, hey, look who I found hiding in the back. We originally thought it was just us two and these three women hostages. We had released everyone else, but this guy was hiding. And the robber was not happy.

to have a male captive and told him don't be a hero like you're not going to save these three women just sit down and shut up basically this confirms that the robber strategically targeted women as his hostages and let the men go so he could easily be in control of the situation and eliminate all threats

So it's now Clark, the unidentified robber, and four hostages in the bank as day turns to night. The robber kept the hostages close to him so that they could act as a human shield as to protect him from the police. Across from the bank, the police had set up sharpshooters on the rooftops in hope of maybe getting a shot, but they were never able to get that clear shot. Although at one point, the robber would shoot at them, but not hit anybody. You know, I feel like I've watched enough movies and...

i mean i've watched a couple like bank robberies on you know different channels yeah i just feel like how do you get away right like how do you get away anyone think they're gonna get in i just never i mean the movies are so different they have all these like crazy strategic plans right right

But very rarely, very rarely does it actually happen in real life. And I think unless you can get out before police get there, your chances of getting away, they're almost like they're impossible. Exactly how I feel. So I'm just confused. I'm curious to see where this goes. Right. So by this point, police have provided a getaway car for the robber and Clark and

They saw a blue Mustang outside the bank. They were like, oh, that must be the car police have given us. Hoping for this to be the end of it, police asked the robber and Clark to leave the hostages be, exit the bank and take the car, take the money, take the guns. They promised no one would follow and they would safely escape. So weird. But the Mustang was outfitted with a radar device that would track the car's location. The robber knew that escaping alone in the car without hostages would be nothing but a trap.

The robber demanded once again the hostages would need to come in the car with him. Police would not allow it.

So it was supposed to be a robbery and escape turned into something much more, something that would go down in history. The negotiations reached an impasse because the police refused to let the robber leave in the car with the hostages. Understanding the situation and refusing to allow the hostages to leave, at about 10 p.m. on the first night, the police provided the robber and the hostages with supplies to last the night, including cigarettes and a cigarette lighter.

At some point, the robber decided to take the hostages and Clark to the safe deposit vault on the ground floor of the bank.

The spot felt safe to the robber as it had no windows to shoot him through. He could lock everyone inside the vault. Plus there were bathrooms close by. The vault was long and narrow, 47 feet by 11 feet. Oh, that's big. The ceiling was low at only seven and a half feet high. It had a telephone lights and a narrow entrance with two doors, an inner door and an outer door.

The outer door was a heavy steel door that could only be locked from the outside. The only way to lock this door was by hand. The inner door didn't have a lock. So think about how scary and uncomfortable this was for the hostages as the day turned to night and no progress had been made. And now they're getting shoved into a vault that could be locked from the outside, but not the inside. So at this point, I'm going to just do a brief explanation of each hostage, who they were, so we can kind of remember them through this case.

The first was Kristen and Mark, who was 23 years old at the time of the robbery. She was working at the bank as a stenographer. She had come to Stockholm about three and a half years earlier as a teenager to accompany her fiance who had been offered a good job in Stockholm and the fiance wouldn't move there without her. So she accompanied him. Kristen was from a gold mining town in the Northern part of Sweden. Kristen accepted the first job in Stockholm that she was offered. And it happened to be at that bank. Okay.

The couple eventually broke up. Kristen didn't enjoy banking and was scheduled to start classes in social work that September, just a month after the heist. She had been impatient to start her new studies and leave this bank job, and now she's a hostage at the bank. Birgitta Lundblad was 31 years old, a married mom of two daughters ages three and one at the time she had become a hostage.

She had been working at the bank for 10 years and was known as a diligent and responsible worker. She was assigned to handle bank drafts from overseas. She and her husband and child lived in a suburb called Jacobsburg, which was about 30 minutes away from the bank. Her husband worked as a civil engineer. She was happy working at the bank and planned to continue working there.

Elizabeth Oldgren was 21 years old. She worked at the bank as a cashier in the foreign exchange department. She had been working there for just over a year, but she wanted to leave her position so that she could pursue schooling and a career in nursing. She had plans for that coming weekend to attend a crayfish party.

So those are the hostages.

At about 11 p.m. that first night, the robber used the phone to call Sweden's prime minister, Olof Palme, as he was the one person who could authorize the robber's plan to escape the bank with the hostages.

Palm had been in his office at this late hour waiting for news about the Swedish king's health condition. The robber threatened the lives of the hostages during this phone call and grabbed Elizabeth by the throat. Palm could hear her gasping over the phone. The robber began a countdown starting at one minute, but then hung up the phone with 15 seconds left and without hurting any of the hostages.

So again, like you said, it's almost like he really doesn't want to hurt them. No, he's just trying to scare them at this point to get away. That night, the hostages went to sleep there in the vault. The robber had Elizabeth sleep in a chair facing the doorway of the vault so that she could serve as a human shield in the event that the police tried to storm their way inside the vault.

Did they both sleep at the same time? Yeah, everyone slept in the vault. All six of them. Elizabeth woke up after midnight on what was now Friday, August 24th, feeling cold in the chilly vault, and the robber draped his own wool jacket around her shoulders. Weird. So one of his hostages woke up completely

complaining about the temperature and he was like, oh, here, take my jacket. At 6 a.m., a policeman showed up with another man on the staircase outside of the vault. This man, a civilian, was calling out,

Kaj, Kaj, I am your brother. During the night, the police had been theorizing who they thought the robber was because Clark had still not told police, and they thought they had discovered it. The police mistakenly believed that the robber was Kaj Hansen, another prisoner who had escaped. Hansen was a bank robber, and so they were like, this has to be him. How do you get that? You can't get that wrong. Well, I mean, they're just shooting in the dark. I get it. Yeah, I'm just...

That's not the best thing to get wrong at this point. So around 6 a.m., the police were hoping that the robber's brother could coax him out of the vault and get him to end the hostage standoff. Unfortunately, they had made a big mistake and Kaj was not the robber. The robber responded by firing two rounds from his machine gun. No one was hurt. But the real Kaj Hansen learned of these events and called the police from Hawaii.

Oh my gosh.

After realizing their mistake, the police provided bedding for the robber and the hostages outside the vault. So the next night, if it got to that point, they could sleep more comfortably. That sucks for that guy. Right. I mean, I guess he was in prison, but still that sucks that he got caught because of a... Because he called and said, no, it's not me. Why would he do that? I don't know. That's funny. The police commissioner to inspect the hostages to make sure that they were alive and well after the long night, the first night in the vault.

The robber led the four hostages out of the vault while the police commissioner inspected them from the top of the staircase where he couldn't be shot by the robber. So it's just a visual inspection. The police commissioner saw that the four hostages were all in good health. However, he witnessed something he hadn't expected. The hostages all behaved in a hostile fashion towards him.

Right.

All the hostages seemed physically fit and they all entreated me to let them leave the bank with the robber and Clark. So the hostages were like, please just let us go with them. Like, just let us leave. That's what they want. Please just let us leave. The hostages told the police they wanted to leave with the men. Kristen actually gave a radio interview over the phone that day. That's how chill everything was inside of the vault.

At some point during the second day, the robber took Sven aside and said he was going to shoot him. However, the robber made clear that he was only going to shoot Sven in the leg and that he wouldn't kill him. The robber said this was necessary to shake up the police, make them take him seriously, and get them all to...

leave in the car. The robber explained that Sven could drink all the beer he wanted ahead of time so he could be drunk and the shot would hurt less and that the robber would shoot Sven in the leg at the bottom of the staircase so police could easily see him and easily come get him.

The robber told Sven that he'd give him a signal to when this would happen, but none of this would ever happen. At 5 p.m., Kristen phoned the prime minister. She didn't know him personally, but this conversation was tape recorded by the police, unknown to both Kristen and the prime minister. They spoke for 42 minutes. Kristen told the prime minister, please, please let us leave with

the men saying that the robbers had been very nice to everyone and that she was afraid the police would attack and kill everyone. Which I get. So this is where I'm trying to figure out. I guess what I'm trying to say is I don't understand at what point does it go from just you faking it or being like, look, they're not going to hurt us to Stockholm syndrome. You know what I mean? Yeah, I don't know. And is that even a fine line? Does it even happen? At what point is that lapse or...

Because it's already been... It's hard. Yeah, it's already been a full day that they've been held hostage. And at this point, it seems like even this soon, they are already not scared of the captors. They're more scared of the police. But even you telling me this, it doesn't seem like... I'm not saying I wouldn't be scared, but I'd be like...

I hope the police don't do anything stupid because I don't want them to kill me if they're not hurting me. Right. And I do think that's a valid point. Yeah. So Kristen asked the prime minister over and over again on this phone to give the money to the robbers and to let them leave the bank with the robbers saying it was the only way for them to stay alive. Exactly what you just said. It's more about I want to live. So you need to be nice to these people. Exactly. During this call, which was later released, Kristen says, quote,

Interesting. Okay. Interesting.

Again, this might not make any sense to you or to us. We are still sitting here going, how could this happen? How does this make sense? But this is the phenomenon of supposed Stockholm syndrome. It doesn't make sense. That's why it's even been speculated on.

Later that night, the second day, the police correctly figured out the robber's identity. The robber's voice was broadcast on the radio and a police detective recognized the voice as belonging to criminal Jean-Eric Olson. Olson had a lengthy criminal history. At the time of the robbery, he was already well known to the police as a safecracker who was an expert in the use of explosives and who was willing to use a gun.

He had already served a three-year sentence for theft. However, he was on leave after serving about half of his sentence at the time of this robbery. Had he ever killed anyone before? No. No. Okay. This was also known as being on furlough from prison as part of the justice system's effort to allow prisoners time to re-acclimate to life on the outside. So his sentence wasn't over, but he was out. Does that make sense? It's like probation, basically? Yeah, basically. Okay.

According to true crime edition.com years earlier, Olson had achieved fame in Sweden for helping a man. He was robbing after he, the robbery victim collapsed from a heart attack and then continued to rob his house. So that's what he was famous for. It was, he broke into this house and,

And he was robbing it. And the man who was the victim collapsed having a heart attack. And Olsen stopped the robbery and went over to try to help this man. So I'm saying it doesn't sound like he wants to hurt someone. He just wants money. He's just a criminal. Yeah, I'm not saying what he's doing is okay. Olsen first met Clark Olofsson at a Swedish prison called Kalimer.

The two became friends and Olson was fascinated with Clark's criminal history. Olson wanted to learn from Clark about how to commit a bank robbery. Hola. Como esta? Hola, como estamos? Want to learn a new language? Well, the best way is to uproot your entire life, move to Spain and live there for the rest of your life.

I made that up. I went off the ad. Let me go back to the ad read. The best way is to uproot your entire life. Drop your... Oh. You literally followed the ad. I didn't read the rest of that. Drop yourself in the middle of a new country and figure it out from there. I just want to let everyone know that's what I did. But... That's what I did. It worked. If you're not ready for that, you can still learn a new language the next best way. And that is with Babbel. See.

Speak like a whole new you with Babbel, the science-backed language learning app that gets you talking. Wasting hundreds of dollars on private tutors is the old school way of learning a new language. Babbel's 10-minute lessons are quick and handcrafted by over 200 language experts, ready to get you talking your new language in three weeks because talking is the key to really knowing any language.

Designed by real people for having real conversation, Babbel gets you talking. You guys, I actually use Babbel to brush up on Spanish when we travel. I love it. It is so easy. And then I can actually kind of keep up with what's going on. And with over 16 million subscriptions sold, Babbel's 14 award-winning language courses are backed by a 20-day money-back guarantee. So there's no pressure. Buy Babbel and travel.

Here's a special limited time deal for our listeners right now. Get up to 60% off your Babbel subscription, but only for our listeners at babbel.com slash husband. Get up to 60% off at babbel.com slash husband spelled B-A-B-B-E-L.com slash husband. Rules and restrictions may apply.

In January 1973, Olsen, who was then out on furlough but actually hadn't returned, so he was actually considered a fugitive at this point, tried to get Clark, his friend, and who is fast forward in the future now at this bank robbery, he tried to break him out of prison by attempting to detonate dynamite. However, this attempt failed and the dynamite didn't explode. And so after this attempt from August 8th to August 23, while an active fugitive, Olsen hides out in the home of one of Clark's women friends.

It seems weird to me that after all this, Clark still didn't recognize him right away. Well, he was in disguise. True. But I guess it seems weird that he wouldn't maybe assume, oh, this has to be Clark. Or Olsen. Sorry, yeah, this has to be Olsen. Exactly. Exactly.

Especially because the woman that Olsen stayed with while being a fugitive, who was Clark's lady friend, was pregnant with Clark's baby. And so it's kind of like he was definitely involved in Clark's life. So it's kind of it is weird that Clark pretended or truly didn't recognize him or didn't know what was going on.

Despite Olson's lengthy criminal past, the police chief was actually glad to discover that the robber was Olson because he believed, again, that Olson was not the type of personality to commit violence against hostages based on his criminal past. According to the New Yorker, Olson was known to take his standing in the prison community seriously. In jail, he had actually once attempted to knife a child molester. So he kind of did believe in this like justice system of I'm a criminal, but I'm not out here to hurt people type thing.

By 10 a.m. the next day, which is day three, all had been quiet in the vault all morning, even after the police yelled Olson's name, which is basically telling Olson that they know who he is now. So a policeman went halfway down the staircase and shot a single shot from his pistol in order to make a noise and get some kind of response.

At this point, the outer door was slightly ajar. A different police officer snuck down even more with a five foot long wooden pole, which he used to force the outer door shut. He then turned the lock, which locked the robbers and the hostages inside of the vault. Everyone inside the vault had been sleeping, so nothing was going on. They just didn't wake up. They were all asleep. I'm not sure that...

That's a good idea. That was the best idea. Right. I don't know whose idea it was to be like, oh, okay, let's go lock them in the safe together. Well, I think they're thinking we can contain them. Now we have the upper hand because they're all locked in a closet. Yes. But it does seem scary to me that the only way to get them out now is to get that close to them. I can just imagine them in like a circle and they're like, okay.

Let's just lock them in there. Right. Well, it was a split decision. Yeah. So the hostages were terrified by the police shutting the door, terrified that the police were about to storm inside. Again, if the hostages were feeling confused or even scared that the police were the threat here, imagine how they would feel when they woke up and realized they had been locked inside of a small vault.

So how can they communicate with the police now since they're locked in there? Phone. There's a telephone in the vault. That's right. That's right. So the police chief explained later that the dynamics of the hostage situation changed once the vault door was locked from the outside as it altered the power dynamic in favor of the police. The police were now able to move around the main floor without fear and could put sandbags against the vault door in an extra effort to make sure that Olsen couldn't somehow force his way out or

Olsen then did a counterattack at this. So it's full on war. It's full on war. So Olsen inside with the hostages is like, we have to counterattack. He knocked over some heavy cabinets against the inner door, which would prevent the police from being able to get in. So now there's barricades on both sides of this door to prevent them from getting in and them from getting out. One consequence though of this decision was that the blockade blocked Olsen's access to the light switch and the lights were now always on even when the occupants of the vault tried to sleep.

which is a form of torture that they use. So now he just accidentally in an already intense situation has basically used a form of torture against himself and his hostages. I'll be honest though. I feel like I can sleep with the lights on. Not for days in a tiny little vault in a hostage situation. I might try it out.

So Olsen also stuffed vent holes with the newspaper to try to thwart what he suspected were the police's plans of using tear gas. So he's like, we have to cover up all the holes in this vault so they don't tear gas us. But also that means you're now lessening the amount of air that is in this tiny little vault. The police called Olsen and asked if he was ready to give up. They're like, okay, we got you locked in here. Are you ready? And Olsen responded, go to hell.

That's all he says. So no, this is a full-blown war between the police and Olsen and honestly the hostages. I just feel like they're not going to kill anyone. I really do. I'm pretty convinced at this moment they're not going to kill the hostages. I hope I am right and I guess we'll find out. Well, considering that this was supposedly the case that started Stockholm Syndrome, I would dare to say yes, I do think you're correct. Yes, yes, yes.

So the police stopped negotiating with Olson at this point. They were like, hey, that's it. We're shutting off all negotiations. Their plan was to use tear gas. This was exactly what Olson had been worrying about. The police's plan was to drill holes into the vault and release tear gas via aerosol flasks enough to knock out all of the occupants.

the police would have medical personnel present to help everyone in the vault after gassing them. So they're kind of like, let's just put all of them to sleep. Open the door, get the bad guys. And it's not about

a bad plan no that's a smarter idea so during this time the police were also receiving a multitude of suggestions um from regular citizens as how to end the hostage drama because this has now become prime television everyone's just waiting day by day we're on day three of these hostages and oh the police strike back well now the hostages and and the robbers strike back now the police so it's like it's drama basically the only reason that this is working though is because the

the police and everyone else is so convinced that they aren't going to kill them. Because I feel like if they were nervous at all that they were going to kill the hostages, they would not be doing what they're doing. And also you're right on the right track because this is why the robber said, I'm sorry, Sven, I have to shoot you in the leg to try to get them to take me seriously. But he still didn't do it.

Also, it's important to note here that the hostages at this point claim that the robber was taking care of them during this entire ordeal. He consoled Elizabeth for missing the crayfish party that she had planned. He gave Kristen a souvenir, a bullet from his gun. Sven later said, when he treated us well, we could think of him as our emergency god.

Olsen also demanded feminine products for one of the women who had gotten her period while inside the vault. So like he's definitely there is like some camaraderie going on in this vault that police are just astonished by. Around this time the same day, the police unlocked the door long enough to deliver supplies such as a chemical toilet because now they don't have access to a bathroom, toilet paper, whiskey, toothbrushes, toothpaste, six pair of wool socks and six athletic warm up suits.

The police were busy learning all they could about the structure of the vault and the thickness of the walls so they could carry out their plan of releasing tear gas into the vault. Accurate detailed information about the building was difficult to come by at this point because it was a historic building. It was almost 100 years old and had been remodeled and rebuilt through the decades, but that wasn't necessarily in the plan so they were having to really do research.

From this point on, Olsen expected and waited for the police to use tear gas. He talked about it often with the hostages. On Saturday afternoon, the group hadn't eaten in a pretty long time, so Olsen took out three pairs from his pocket and cut each one in half, sharing the halves so that each of the six people in the vault could eat half a pair. Again, not typical behavior for a bad guy situation. At some point during this day, still concerned about Sven posing a threat as a hostage, Olsen

Olsen tests him by pretending to sleep in his chair, but allowing his gun to dangle from his lap without his hand on it. Close to where Sven was sitting to see if Sven would do anything. But Sven did not try to be a hero, as Olsen had said. Olsen told the author of the New York article whom he talked to from prison, I was glad for his sake that he didn't. Okay.

So now we're on day four, Sunday. At 10.45 a.m. on Sunday, August 26, 1973, the police begin drilling. Olson wasn't sure but strongly suspected that the purpose of drilling was to dispense the gas. About two hours later, the drill bit had penetrated the vault's concrete ceiling. Olson immediately destroyed the drill bit with an explosive. So as soon as the drill that's drilling poked through the hole, he destroyed it with a bomb, like an explosive. Wow.

No one was hurt, but this did set the police back. The situation in the vault became more and more uncomfortable as the drilling resulted in the lights going on and off, on and off, water dripping down into the cramped quarters where they were staying. So it's drilling all

hours of the day, lights going on and off. I just feel like this whole thing is so unorganized and such a mess. I know. Like, I feel like what you're telling me is fake, but it's real. Right. So on day five at 3 a.m. on Monday, August 27th, the police threatened Olson and said that if he didn't pass them his gun and his explosives, the police would get tougher on him. In response, Olson put a noose around each of the hostages necks, necks,

Olsen tied the nooses to the steel cabinet handles and threatened back saying, if you guys use your gas, each of these hostages are going to fall down because they're going to pass out and they're going to strangle to death. So if you want to kill them, go ahead. Olsen made the hostages stand there like this with the nooses around their necks for hours.

At around 5 or 6 a.m., Olsen asked Sven if he was getting tired, and Sven said no and inquired whether he could do the standing for all of the hostages. So after several hours, Olsen finally allowed all of them to remove their nooses, but Sven did stand there for longer. Poor Sven, man. I know. The police provided food for the group in the vault at this point who hadn't eaten anything since the pairs.

at 2 p.m on monday after resting for a few hours from the exhausting ordeal the police commissioner met with his officers to come up with a final plan for how to end this hostage crisis after considering various tactics and ways to deploy the gas the police decided definitively to administer tear gas from aerosol flasks which they would dispense once the police had completed drilling the necessary holes i thought that he just said don't drill any more holes because we'll kill them with

Or because they had the nooses around them. He did. But he finally let the hostages take the nooses off because they were getting tired. Wow.

But how do they know that he won't make him put him back on? They don't. They don't. So the police also decided not to give the robbers and hostages any more provisions or food or communicate with them any further. They're like, we have got to stop making it comfortable for them in there. The drilling continued and with it came more water. The hostages were more uncomfortable than ever. Their wool socks were soaked. There was inches of water collecting in some of the floor in the vault and

as the drilling continued olsen plugged up one of the holes with some newspaper he also fired his gun at a policeman who was trying to protect another hole with a plastic shield

This just reminds me of that game where you hit the whack-a-mole. Yeah, whack-a-mole. Yeah, like I said, it sounds fake because this whole thing is all over the place. Every time they would successfully get a hole through, Olsen would just be there trying to destroy the hole and poke people through the hole. So no one was hit or injured by the gunshot. And this continued on for the rest of the day and into the night. So now we are on day six, Tuesday, at 8.35 a.m.,

Oh, wow.

Shortly after 9 p.m., the police released the gas using a fan to distribute it. The process of administering the gas was complex, as the 15 aerosol flasks had to be released at the same time all within one minute. Plus, the officers had to be careful to stay out of range of Olsen's weapons, who was down there waiting to see them over the holes. Yeah.

the officers were wearing gas masks the police lowered lamps through the hole so they could watch what was going on below in response olsen ordered the hostages to put their nooses back on but it was too late as the gas started affecting everyone in the vault almost immediately despite the police's planning over the course of several days the gas didn't have the intended effect

The gas didn't render everyone to just fall asleep. Instead, it made them all experience agonizing pain and sickness. Oh, no. They were choking, gasping for air, eyes burning, and they were all throwing up all over each other. Man, this is probably one of the worst planes I've ever heard. So imagine all of this happening in this tiny, dark room that's filled with inches of water. So if they're all throwing up,

In inches of water, that throw up is going all over everyone. Oh, that is horrible. So with the tear gas released, finally Olsen yelled, we give up, let us out. Because they didn't fall asleep. They're all just so sick. It almost worked better than them falling asleep. So the police demanded to have Olsen's guns. They're like, we're not letting up until you give us your guns. He relinquished them to the police who were able to grab them from above with the help of a hook and a long cord. So they're like Jimmy pulling these guns out. But how...

How big were the holes? They were big. They were big enough to pull a gun through. Oh, I was imagining little tiny baby holes. No, because they were originally going to release the gas in flasks.

So they had to like throw them through. That makes so much more sense. Which is how any time an officer's head would poke over the hole, he could see them. I was imagining like holes like the size of a quarter. Big holes. That's why it also took so long to drill. Got it. Olsen wanted to get it all over with without any more delay. So he was like, okay, you took my guns, but also do you want my explosives? Yes.

So he was the one who was like, I still have explosives. The police ordered Olson to open the inner door to the vault. They're like, bake, break through your barricade while everyone's still sick, by the way, and, and get to the inner door to the vault. So Olson worked feverishly to take down the barricade of furniture aid previously knocked over into the door.

Olsen was worried that he and the others might suffer permanent damage from the tear gas. So he quickly took down the barricade and got the inner door open. A police officer was standing in the outer door, but it was only open just a crack. The officer was understandably concerned about being blown up or otherwise injured. So the hostages yelled to the police to trust Olsen.

And finally, the police allowed Olsen to hand over his explosives to them through the crack in the door. Now that Olsen no longer posed a threat, the police yelled for the hostage to come out first. Kristen yelled back at the police. No, John and Clark go first. You're going to gun them down if we do.

Oh, my gosh. Yeah, they're protecting them. So the hostages refused to leave the vault before Olsen and Clark, like genuinely because they didn't want them to die. As written in The New Yorker, as they stood framed in the doorway, the convicts and hostages quickly abruptly embrace each other. As soon as they got out, the women kissing their captors, Sven shaking hands with them. And once their farewells were over, all six walked out of the vault. Olsen and Clark in the lead. Okay.

none of the hostages or the robbers were injured during the six-day ordeal it was definitely unpleasant but none of them were permanently injured

The hostages were put on stretchers and helped medically before being taken for psychiatric care at St. Gorin's Hospital to deal with the aftermath of their hostage taking. The four hostages spent 10 days there being treated. Part of the treatment was to lavish the hostages with comforts such as baths, comfortable clothes, their favorite foods. The doctors also encouraged their patients to discuss their experiences inside the vault as part of their treatment.

The doctors found that the hostages held firmly to the notion that the police all six days were the true enemy, the ones who had endangered their lives and that the robbers were the ones who had saved their lives. The hostages could understand logically that their feelings didn't make sense, but they couldn't seem to shake the way they all felt about the robbers and the police. I'm not going to say they're right, but kind of. I think... You know what I'm saying? It just...

I'm trying to look at it from their point of view. It did kind of seem like the police were the enemies. I mean, they because nothing was really going smoothly. They locked him in a vault. Yeah. Like everything they did obviously was to try to help them. Yeah. But at the same time, it did seem to make things more dangerous. Well, and you also have to think as the hostages were saying, hey, just let us leave with them. Like, we don't care. We'll leave with them.

And the police kept saying no. So they're like, the police don't want to get us out of this situation. They just want to keep us here. The psychiatrist noted that all four of the hostages had very much wanted to keep living throughout the ordeal. So they were like, maybe that was the whole point is they felt like their best chance of survival was to feel this way.

Sven and Brigitte returned to working at the bank after this. Kristen worked there for the summer of 1974 before returning to her second year of studies in social work. Elizabeth went to nursing school in Stockholm as planned. Olsen and Clark were both charged and brought to trial. Olsen was charged with robbery, kidnapping, and attempted murder. Clark was charged with robbery. Both went on trial before a judge. Apparently, some of the hostages refused to testify against the two men and even raised money for their defense. Wow.

Clark represented himself at trial and argued that the police had forced him out of prison to serve as Olson's accomplice. So the trial judge disagreed, convicted Clark, and sentenced him to six and a half years in prison. So he just started his sentence over, basically. Basically.

Unlike in the United States, Sweden doesn't use juries in their criminal system. Rather, a judge just renders the verdict after the trial. However, an appeal, a court reversed Clark's conviction, finding that Clark had acted under duress first from pet,

pressure from the police and then from pressure under olson olson supported clark's position so olson was like yeah i did pressure him i did force him to be there clark's conviction was therefore reversed on appeal but he returned to prison to serve the remainder of his previous sentence olson was convicted and sentenced to 10 years to be served concurrently with the remainder of the three-year sentence he had already been serving olson was sent to a maximum security prison

Olsen was eventually released on parole. He got married to a woman who had written to him while he was in prison, and he moved with her to Thailand, where they lived for 15 years. They eventually returned to Sweden. Olsen sold used cars for a living in his later years, and he's now retired in a

That's so crazy. It's like a weird, happy ending. Okay.

In July 1974, nearly a year after being held hostage, Birgitta was driving with her husband and children through Norcoping, where Clark was serving time in prison, and she wanted to stop and visit with him. Her husband said it was okay, so he and the children waited outside of the car while Birgitta went in the prison and talked with Clark for 30 minutes. Prison officials allowed for the visit even though it hadn't been preplanned. She declined to discuss what she and Clark talked about with the author of the New Yorker piece, but we just know it happened.

Two of the hostages, Kristen and Elizabeth, the two younger women became friends. Like after the whole situation, they hung out together. Um,

And the police commissioner awarded plaques to more than 50 individuals who helped secure the release of the hostages, including police officers, drilling crews, electricians, doctors and bank executives. Netflix very recently released a six episode series called Clark, which focuses on the life and the crimes of Clark Olofsson, who is played by Swedish actor Bill Skarsgård. So if you want to go watch that, check that out. Okay.

According to time.com, Sweden was mesmerized by the unfolding of this crime. Swedish media records show that the event at its height captured no less than 73% of the viewing public. It was the first criminal event to be covered by live television in Sweden. The bank drama dominated the news both on television and in the newspapers. Crowds gathered outside of the credit bank during the crisis, struggling to comprehend how this type of flamboyant violence could still be happening in their country.

The term Stockholm Syndrome was coined as a result of the psychological state of the hostages during and after this event and went on to be used to describe victim behavior literally still to this day. Interesting. I don't want to get, I don't know, obviously I don't want to get too much into it, but I find it interesting because I think when I think of Stockholm Syndrome, obviously what they went through is bad, but I guess I think of it as

Someone who's being tortured constantly and then they do, and then the captors do something nice. Yeah. And then they're tortured again and then something nice happens and then they're tortured again, like really, really bad things. And I guess trauma that seems like could be really heavy. Yeah. Yeah.

So you're thinking of like the American version of Stockholm syndrome because that's more commonly what we see happen, like what we've called Stockholm syndrome, which is why I think it hasn't like legally been determined because people are like, no, that's just PTSD. Brainwashing. Brainwashing. Yeah. That's how I consider it. Like you're brainwashed. Yeah. Like giving an inch, you know, type things. So that's honestly why I think they say, no, Stockholm syndrome isn't that because there's other ways to...

I mean, that behavior does make sense. Like when you first hear it, you're like, oh my gosh, I would never. But when you're in that situation, so this was the situation that coined Stockholm syndrome. And I think Stockholm syndrome is more used for like hostage situations where hostages try to protect the captor. Not for more severe situations. We actually saw this in the Trader Joe's grocery thing. Again, they didn't want to let him walk out on his own for fear that police would retaliate. So they guarded him as they walked out.

And I think it does have to do with the fact that if you don't feel like your life is being threatened by your captor, maybe you see them as a more, like the more human sides of them. I don't know. Yeah. It's super, super interesting. It is super strange, but I just thought it was interesting that this is where Stockholm syndrome comes from because it happened in Stockholm. Yep.

Okay, you guys, that is our episode for today. A reminder about our live show coming up. We are so excited and we hope to see you there. And I guess we will see you guys next week with another episode. I love it. And I hate it. Goodbye.