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Hey everybody, welcome back to our podcast. This is Murder With My Husband. I'm Peyton Moreland. And I'm Garrett Moreland. And he's the husband. And I'm the husband. We just want to real quick say thank you to everyone who's tuning in today, whether that's on podcast or on YouTube. We are so happy you are here. Thank you for being a part of our family. It really does mean so much. And then also we did just want to mention and say thank you guys so much for always supporting and listening to
to our ads, the people who sponsor this podcast. It really does help so much. So if you're ever curious and just want to check out the ads, even just like going to the website through the link in our episode notes, it's a great way to support us. Ads are definitely what keeps this show up and running on our end of things. So thank you guys so much for being so supportive. All right, Gertie, you have your 10 seconds.
I do have my 10 seconds. I got some new golf shoes preparing for the season so I can triple bogey every single thing. What's so funny about that?
But I don't know what was so funny. I don't know. Do you even know what triple bogey means? Yeah, that's when you like go over your shots. Oh, wow. I am impressed, babe. Garrett's not a birdie type guy. I'm not. I'm okay to admit that. I'm really not. Golf is honestly, I think, the hardest sport ever. I'm 100% serious about that. You know what? But we have fun. We go together. I ride in the car. I cheer him on. Every single time he has to drop another ball because he lost his. It's all about just seeing how many balls you can buy.
that's what golf truly is to me other than that I mean I got new vans too so I guess it's a shoe type of week um I saw a question that said do we ever do I ever talk about the episodes after and after we're done after we're done recording yes and there's probably two times or three times that I have and it's probably been for like a couple seconds right after and then each time it's
Oh, that case just pissed me off. I don't want to talk about it. Yeah, exactly. As if we were going to talk about it. Yeah. So the answer to that is no, we actually, we don't, huh? Yeah. Just to remind everyone, Garrett really does hate this, not this podcast, but the topic of this podcast. He hates true crime. He's not a fan and he really doesn't enjoy talking about it unless, well, he even doesn't enjoy it when we're sitting here. I'm truly trying to be more invested in it.
You do a good job. Thank you. That's the whole point. I hope everyone else thinks so. Do you think people think we're so dumb because we call it 10 seconds when it's clearly never 10 seconds, nor has it ever been? No, I thought about that the other day because someone who's listening for the first time is like, I think something's wrong with them. It's been like three minutes. She can't say her words right. They don't know how to talk. And he does not know what 10 seconds means.
I know sometimes I think about that when people listen for the first time, if they're just like, what is this? Welcome to the show. Welcome.
Welcome to Murder With My Husband. Okay, well, let's just get right into this. Our case sources are Zankys.com. I think that's how you say it. MayoClinic.org, Wikipedia, Religion News, 2020, Evil in Eden. As a reminder, our case sources are always listed in our episode notes for every episode. Our episode this week begins in Merced, California, which is actually called the Gateway to Yosemite. Mm-hmm.
And Merced is about two hours away from Yosemite, which is why I think it's called the gateway to Yosemite. It's kind of in the middle of nowhere and is covered in almond groves and peach orchards. It would be considered a small farming town that just basically lives in the shadows of Yosemite. And we are taking it all the way back to year 1972.
And just for fun, I looked up some things that can take us all back there, considering that I was still roughly 20 years from even being born at the time of this case. In 1972, the average income in America was $9,697 a year. Some 70 slang that the cool kids were using
was the phrase far out and right on, which is basically like, that's cool. Right on. Right on. The U.S. president was Richard Nixon and a gallon of gas. This is going to hurt in today's day and age. Don't tell me. Averaged 36 cents. That's what I'm talking about. A new house.
So to buy a new house in the year 1972, the average was $27,000. Okay. This was also the year that women were allowed to compete in the Boston Marathon for the first time.
And the first female FBI agents were ever hired. Wow, that's awesome. The Brady Bunch was the hit show during this time. And the song American Pie was number one. I wonder if they're because I mean, we never watched. I mean, I watched a little bit of the Brady Bunch. Right. Me too. You did too? Yeah. Okay. In fact, when I was little, my dad, because he was born in the 70s, actually in the year 1970 to be specific. Yeah.
I would always brush my hair because I had pretty long hair as a child and I would always brush my hair and he would always say I was the girl from the Brady Bunch. That's the only reason I really have watched the show. What was her name? I think it's Jan. Jan? Sarah? Jan? I think it's Jan, but Jan might not be the one that brushes her hair. She might be the one that makes fun of the sister for brushing her hair. Someone will correct us. I know one of you guys will come through. I know for sure someone will correct us.
Okay, so that's enough history for the year 1972. So we are deep in Merced, California, and everyone is probably in their bell-bottom jeans. And there is a family called the Stainers who live on Betty Street in the small town of Merced.
And it would have been considered a middle-class neighborhood, the one that the Stainers lived in. And the parents of the Stainer family was father Delbert and mother Kay. And together Delbert and Kay have five children. The oldest of the children was a boy named Carrie. And then they had another boy named Steven. And then they went on to have three daughters.
Father Delbert Stainer worked as a mechanic in a peach cannery and Kay actually stayed home with the kids. But people that knew the Stainer family during this time kind of described Kay, the mom, as a cold woman who wasn't very active in her kid's life despite the fact that she stayed home with them.
So as the family and the kids are growing up, oldest brother, Carrie was the first to discover his personality, just like any other family. And he kind of took his younger brother, Steven under his wing. Oftentimes we see siblings who, once they hit that preteen age, they couldn't get farther away from their embarrassing little siblings, but that definitely wasn't the case with Carrie and Steven. They hung out together, Carrie letting Steven tag along with his friends as they rode bikes and hung out.
The day was December 4th, 1972, and it was a cold wintry day in Merced, California. Steven Stainer, now just seven years old, has just finished school and it was time to make the short walk home. Just four blocks into his walk,
This is when Strangey Dangey came about, correct? Yes. And I wish Stephen knew about Strangey Dangey. The man told Stephen that everything was okay. He was just looking for charitable donations to a local church.
The man asked Stephen if his mother, who was at home, would be willing to donate.
And Stephen said, probably, I mean, he's seven years old and it's a church. And I want to go into something here that we've seen this before, that using something that should be inherently good, like church, faith, police, schooling as a way to gain someone's trust for exploitation. We've definitely seen that as a common theme. And this man said, okay, great. If your mom's willing to donate, we can go see her. And it was around the time that he said that
that another man pulled up next to them on the road driving a white Buick.
The first man leaned over to Steven and told him, hey, hop into the car. We would just drive you the rest of the way home to the Stainer home so that we can get the money from your mom. Come on. And seven-year-old Steven is like, sweet, like a free ride home. Don't do it. And that was the day that seven-year-old Steven Stainer was kidnapped from Merced, California while walking home from school. You know, it sucks because they're just like kids are so innocent. Yeah.
Right. Right. Like as much as we talk about, you know, stranger danger and don't talk to strangers like kids are just so innocent. They're just so trusting. Yeah. OK. Yeah. You're going to give me a ride. Thank you. Yeah. He's getting money for a church. Like what could be so bad about a church? Yeah.
When Stephen doesn't show up after school, both Delbert and Kay are alerted. They call the police and report Stephen missing. And because of the young age and the relatively safe area, a missing person investigation begins as police comb through the area on foot looking for seven-year-old Stephen.
Media shows up and the local news report on the kidnapping. How could a little boy be snatched off a busy road in the middle of the day while walking home from school?
But as the evening turns to night and then the sun rises the following day with not even a clue as to what happened to Steven or where he was, his parents are worried. Another issue is that Yosemite Parkway is also a highway, which means a lot of people driving through town were on that road. Strangers weren't uncommon around there. There was nothing like, oh, I saw a strange vehicle. If there's a bunch of strangers, every vehicle is strange.
And where do you start with a stranger abduction? Once you've ruled out friends and family, local predators, where as an investigator do you turn? This has to be one of the hardest places to be in an investigation. Especially when there's no cameras. Right. I mean, or no eyewitnesses. No one has any idea, like the slightest idea. Right. And.
And as days turned to weeks with no lead or clue about what happened to young Steven, hopes begin to drop in the community. Even back then, parents knew that the longer a child is missing, the less likely they will ever be found, especially alive. And this realization and the heartbreak that came with a missing child began to take a toll on the Stainer family.
Carrie missed his younger brother and he felt guilty because he was supposed to be walking with Stephen that day. That sucks. But for some reason, it just hadn't worked out. And Carrie would actually go outside at night during this time, the early days that Stephen's missing and wish on all the stars for Stephen to come home. But enough wishes couldn't do it.
I can't really explain what something like this can do to a family because, I mean, we don't know. We've never lived through it. But for some reason, Delbert and Kay put a lot of pressure on young Carrie during this time, furthering his guilt about his brother's disappearance. That sucks because it's not his fault. It's not his fault. It is not his fault. Delbert and Kay were individually struggling as, you know, husband and wife. And Delbert was actually becoming rough and agitated with the kids.
Kay was withdrawing into herself even more, becoming colder and more distant. And this left four other children at home in the Stainer house with absent parents who were struggling. They were abandoned and neglected. Things were not going good at the Stainer home.
Time went on. The Stainer family life continued to struggle without Stephen. Carrie eventually made it to middle school and then to high school where he was voted most creative because he had become quite an artist. People actually raved about his comic book like drawings, but he was still the kid whose brother went missing when they were younger. Yeah.
And just because he could draw did not mean that all was right with Carrie and everything that had happened. So I assume at this point, the police did some investigations and just nothing came up? Right. Like, I mean, they were searching, but with nowhere to look, the case quickly grew cold and stayed cold because...
Although they're doing searches, they're not finding anybody. Like you said, what do you even do? Where do you even go? Where do you turn? And that's why I said, I think this is probably the most difficult spot for an investigation to be in is truly just cold with no leads. So yeah,
Carrie around this time in early high school has trichotillomania, which according to mayoclinic.org is a mental disorder that involves recurrent irresistible urges to pull your own hair out of your scalp, eyebrows, or other areas of your body. Was this caused by? There's many causes for it, but I think they were kind of tributing it back to the stress that he was experiencing. Yes.
For some people, trichotillomania is mild and manageable, and for others, it's very overwhelming. For Kerry, he pulled hair from his head, which left him with patchy bald spots all over his head. And we have to keep in mind that Kerry is young. He's going through high school. So with these bald spots on his head, he was always, and I mean always, wearing a hat. There is no picture of him without a hat on.
And friends also noted during this time that Carrie never had a girlfriend. And they mean they never even saw him speak to a girl ever. But then in his later teenage years, without even speaking, Carrie began showing some strange behavior towards women. He actually exposed himself randomly to one of his sister's friends. Was he like this before?
The kidnapping. Not that anyone could tell. I guess he was still pretty young, so it was hard to tell. Right. Yeah. And this weird behavior with women wasn't a one-time thing as he got older and went through puberty. Friends noted that Carrie showed a compulsion to be very sexual with women because
but was unable to showcase normal characteristics to get there with women. Got it. So he would just, I mean, be a creep and sexually harass girls. I don't know how else to put it because he was unable to have a healthy sexual relationship with a woman.
So now it's been six to seven years since Stephen was abducted. His brother has grown up. His sisters have grown up. They've become the family in Merced whose child and sibling went missing way back when.
And Stephen is basically just a ghost in the community. And there hasn't been any movement on the case. Police have theorized that he was taken by a complete stranger passing through the area and was most likely not alive anymore. It was definitely a homicide case at this point.
Carrie is obviously struggling in life and is almost showing predatory behavior himself, despite the fact that his brother was kidnapped, most likely by a predator. And in the middle of all of this, something happens in a nearby small town that once again rocks another community. Five-year-old
Timothy White from small town Ukiah, California has just gone missing while walking home from school. How far is this from the other place? So I think it's about a four and a half hour drive between the two towns. Okay. So...
Pretty far. Pretty far, but close enough that like if two kids around the same age get abducted while walking home from school, people are going to be like, wait, didn't this just happen six years ago? And just like in Steven's case, chaos ensues as an almost identical abduction occurs seven years after the first. Do they have a serial abductor in the area? What is going on? Okay. Let me guess. Your medicine cabinet is crammed with stuff that does not work.
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- The same person? - Yes, and I actually think a serial has to be three. - Okay. - But I mean, two kids go missing. - And how old was Timothy? - Five. - Okay. - And Steven was seven. - Yep. - So they're kind of like- - Same MO in a way. - Yeah, like he's walking home from school.
And Timothy's parents are heartbroken. The public is on edge. I mean, they know what happened to Stephen's family. They know that Stephen never came home and everyone in the public is like, who's going to be next? The police are unsure. Are these two disappearances even related? Are people just jumping to conclusions? Nobody knows.
But the search goes on for Timothy and roughly 15 days since the dreadful afternoon that Timothy was taken, something happens in the case.
In the middle of the night on March 1st, 1980, two boys walk into the local police station. One of them is the missing five-year-old Timothy White. Police immediately gather him up and call his parents. No way you're going to tell me who the other one is. So his parents rush to the police station. A parent's nightmare has just eased up in the slightest. Their little boy has been found missing.
Not only had they got the call that he'd been found, but he was alive. In all of the chaos of Timothy being found, police take the other boy into questioning. Oh, this is Steven? Well, he says his name is Dennis and he's 15 years old. He tells police that him and Timothy had hitchhiked here to try and find Timothy's home. But when they couldn't find it in the dark, they came to the police station instead.
And police are like, okay, but he was missing. Like he's been kidnapped. So how did he end up with you? Did you kidnap him? What is going on? And Dennis looks at police to answer the loaded question. He waits a moment, but all he can say is, I know my name is Steven.
Seven years after being kidnapped, 15-year-old Stephen Stainer walked into a police station with another missing boy in his arms, leading both of them to safety. That is absolutely unbelievable. What the freak had happened over the past seven years was...
Where had Steven been? Well, I'm about to tell you. He really looked up and said, I know my name is Steven. That's all he knew. He didn't even know his last name. That's mind blowing. But at first he was like, no, I'm Dennis. I'm Dennis. I'm Dennis. Like he didn't even know he was kidnapped almost. All he said was, I know my name is Steven. But then when they were like, you have to explain what's going on. This doesn't make sense. You show up with a kidnapped kid. This doesn't look very good. And he said,
I know my name is Steven. That's all I know. Okay. So back to 1972, when Steven was originally taken, the story actually begins with a man named Kenneth Parnell. Kenneth worked in Yosemite at the Yosemite lodge. He was tall, pasty with greasy, slicked back hair. Kenneth had to work at the lodge because he had previously been convicted for molesting a child. And this was one of the only places he could be hired.
Kenneth worked at the time with another man named Irvin Murphy. Now, Irvin didn't have a very high IQ and Kenneth and him quickly bonded at work. And it didn't take long for them to bring out the absolute worst in each other. Kenneth confided in Irvin, telling him that he had been thinking of kidnapping a child and it was something he wanted to do. And so he asked Irvin if he would want to go in on it with him, help him get a child.
And Irvin agreed. What? How these kinds of people can find each other in person will always blow my mind. And also like, like, I just can't believe they exist. Right. That's real. The two people working randomly are talking about kidnapping a child. A child.
So after climbing into the backseat of the Buick that day, Steven, with Irvin and Kenneth, Kenneth purposely missed the turn towards Steven's home and kept driving straight down the road. He eventually pulled over at a gas station a ways away and made a phone call at the payphone while seven-year-old Steven sat in the backseat. When Kenneth got back in the car, he turned around and told Steven he had news.
He said that he had just got off the phone with both of Stephen's parents and that they didn't miss him and they didn't want him to ever come back home. Kenneth explains to a very confused and young Stephen that his parents had actually called him and asked for him to take Stephen away. This is so evil. That Kenneth was now going to be his new dad and he would never see his real parents again.
And although sad, confused and scared, going back to what we said before, seven year old Steven believed him. I mean, the two people in the car with him are adults. You just believe adults, especially in that day and age and at that young of an age. If you were in trouble back then, parents, and still today, parents told you to go find an adult because they are the good guys and they will help you and they'll know what to do.
So Stephen rode completely frightened in the back of Kenneth's car all the way back to Yosemite with them, a two-hour drive. Once they arrived, he was taken to Kenneth's room at the lodge where Kenneth immediately sedated him with cough syrup because obviously Stephen's upset, he's crying, he's scared. For a week, Stephen was held captive in Kenneth's room high on cough syrup.
Kenneth constantly telling him over and over that his parents didn't want him or like him and that he was his new dad. A couple weeks after the initial kidnapping, Kenneth has kept Stephen alive and he decides to flee Yosemite and travel around California bringing Stephen along with him.
They would stay in these awful trailers or crappy motels along the way. And it can go without saying here, but by day, Kenneth treated Stephen as his son.
And by night, well, I'm not quite sure how Steven made it through those nights in the beginning. - I don't even wanna know. - To be so confused at the shifting behavior from father figure to rapist at seven years old. Kenneth was okay during the day because he was being fed and he was basically living a life.
But then at night he was being betrayed and hurt. The psychological torment and repercussions that this situation has on a child, I can't even begin to imagine. I know that's exactly what I'm thinking about. What it does to someone is just like unspeakable. Right. Right.
After some time on the road, Kenneth actually decided to settle down with Stephen. It had been months since he had kidnapped him. Stephen had started to, you know, stop crying, was starting to get used to this new life. And so Kenneth decides they can stop running and they can find a home. And he actually decides to enroll Stephen into school. What?
They obviously couldn't use the name Stephen Stainer. And so this was when he came up with the name Dennis Parnell for Stephen. And I know right now you're probably like, this is strange. Because normally when we see child abductors who are in it to sexually assault the child, they don't keep them alive like this. They don't take care of them. They don't...
you know, kind of treat them like their own child. So this is definitely rare. It's more often that when a woman abducts a child, she treats them like a real child than for a man to do this. I guess it's confusing too, because I mean, I'm sure the rules were different back then, but when you enroll someone in school, a kid, there's a lot of documents you have to give. There's a lot of stuff you have to, you can't just enroll them in school. You are reading my next paragraph. So once a
Kenneth has convinced Stephen that Stephen no longer exists and that his name is Dennis and he will only refer to himself as Dennis. He goes to enroll him in school. And like you just said, how can you enroll a kid under a different name at school and no one find out? Well, back in this time, the records were on paper.
So if no one pressed hard enough and if you kind of just brush things off over and over and over again, it honestly could be kind of easy to slip through the cracks, which is exactly what Kenneth did with Steve. And he was like, oh, I don't have that, but I'll bring it. But can we just put them in? And they were like, yeah, they bother him a couple of times and he'd be like, oh, let me get it and then never show up with it.
Four years later in 1976, Stephen and Kenneth have now ended up in a little town called Compchee, California in Mendocino County. And Compchee basically had a post office and a general store. And that was it at this time. It is very, very small.
They had moved into a trailer in an area covered in thick trees and brush. And although they had distant neighbors, no one really knew what was going on behind closed doors at this household. And after four years, Stephen is now 11 years old.
Kenneth had little worry that Stephen would ever leave him at this point. He was basically completely brainwashed now. And although devastating, Stephen was adjusting to this new life as Dennis Parnell. He went to another school where he rode a bus every single day for 30 minutes to get there and back.
He had shaggy, dirty blonde hair and a great smile. He made friends. And by the time he got to early high school, he even had a girlfriend. They fished, they rode bikes together. Steven even got into sports, joining the football team. And all of his friends were so envious of the laid back lifestyle that Dennis's father, Kenneth, allowed him to live.
Stephen was smoking cigarettes, drinking. He had no curfew. He really had the life from the outside looking in as a teenager, but no one knew the whole story. No one knew what had happened. No one knew what was still happening behind closed doors at night in the Parnell trailer. And I think a question I always want to ask, but it just doesn't work this way is, well, why didn't he say anything? Right. But it's,
he's brainwashed. He's completely, at this point, he's brainwashed. You're getting ahead of myself. My next paragraph, I said, please, before we quickly jump to the victim blaming, I want to remind everyone that we haven't been in this situation that Stephen is in. We do not understand the extent of the situation or just how brainwashing works, especially when it started at age seven and lasts for so long.
Stephen could very well not even remember much about his original family before. And although he understands that the sexual abuse he's experiencing is not normal because he has friends at school and he's keeping it a secret, um,
He has attached to Kenneth as a parent figure. I mean, Kenneth provides for him. He gives him clothes. He gives him food. He sends him to school. He's put a roof over his head. There's many reasons that victims of sexual assault don't report. And it's not our place to say, well, what if they had? And I just want to keep that in mind as we respect the victims through the story. By fall of 1979, Stephen is now 14 years old and has been missing for seven years. And
And although his social life is actually going pretty okay at school, Kenneth Parnell decides that it's time to move again in order to stay ahead of any possible capture. I mean, he still did kidnap this kid.
He decides to move Steven to a very small cabin in another small town called Manchester along the coast of Northern California. And we are talking a one room shack basically, like it is a one room cabin. And although I think he did move often to avoid suspicion, personal feeling here is that there's kind of another reason for this specific move. Steven, like I said, is 14 years old now.
he will be, if not already, has started going through puberty. Kenneth Parnell is a pedophile. Pretty soon, Stephen Stainer will mature out of Kenneth's desired age range. And because of this, he moved because I think he wanted to kidnap another little boy and couldn't do it in the same small town that both Kenneth and Stephen had now established roots in. I thought you were going to say he wanted to kill Stephen.
Oh. And then go kidnap somebody else and like do the same thing over again. So this is kind of what I was saying before about the oddity of this case because it's almost like Kenneth enjoyed being a father to Stephen. Yeah.
although he was sexually abusing Steven and kidnapped Steven and completely destroyed his life. You know what I mean? It's definitely rare that we see a predator who acts like this, who isn't interested in killing him. So once moved, Steven too realized that he himself was going through puberty. He was getting taller. He was getting muscles. And pretty soon he figured out if he ever tried to fight back against Kenneth, he,
he might have a chance against his molester. I mean, it was still happening. And he was getting old enough that he was like, I might be able to fight back. It's that time of the year. Your vacation is coming up. You can already hear the beach waves, feel the warm breeze, relax, and think about...
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By 1980, Kenneth had come to terms with the fact that he wanted to abduct another child in this new town up in a secluded cabin in the middle of nowhere. It might just work again. It worked the first time.
Kenneth forced a now older Steven to be his new Irvin. So if we're talking about how psychologically messed up this is, he wanted Steven to try and help him abduct another young boy like he had done to Steven seven years earlier. - What an evil individual. - Right. - Like just pure evil. - Really evil, really is. But all of this kind of resurfaced old buried feelings inside of Steven.
he remembered being that young scared boy dragged away from the only life that he knew that he started remembering things during this time. And every time they would go out to find another boy, Steven would purposely sabotage the situation. After multiple failed attempts, Kenneth realized that Steven was not going to get the job done. Steven was not going to kidnap another young boy. Did he know he was doing it on purpose? I don't know.
I don't know if he knew he was doing it on purpose, but he realized that it wasn't working. And I do have to say here, I think it's a little harder to kidnap a child than just saying like, oh, they went out to get another boy. On February 13th, 1980, Kenneth Parnell goes behind Stephen's back.
and pays a random high school student and friend of Stephen's to walk along the road and ask for church donations to try to find another little boy. And this student agrees to help. Together, they make their way to Ukiah, California to begin the hunt.
Yeah.
When Kenneth showed up at the shack with a scared and confused five-year-old boy, Stephen was gutted. He watched as day after day, Timothy cried and pled for help. So scared, so alone, so broken and missing his family back home. And eventually,
Stephen couldn't take it. He could not let Timothy end up like him. He was literally having a mental battle every single day. Stephen knew that if he didn't try to handle this situation now, it would only get worse for Timothy. Kenneth no longer wanted Stephen and all he had done to him was now going to be done to Timothy if Stephen let him stay here. Stephen couldn't let this happen to another little boy.
On March 1st, 1980, Kenneth Parnell left for his night security job. Stephen woke Timothy up and together they hiked down to the road and walked as they waited for a car to pass in the night. Holding out his thumb, Stephen prayed for someone, anyone, but just not for it to be Kenneth. Finally, someone stops and asks the two boys where they are going. Stephen tells them, "Ukiah, California, please."
And into the night, Stephen and Kenneth hitchhike to Ukiah where they look for the five-year-old Timothy's home. But it was dark and Timothy couldn't find it. He's only five. It's not like he can direct him to where he lives. Does Stephen know like where his family is or is he pretty confused? He...
Oh, where his own family is? Yeah, like his own home. Does he remember any of that? He's not even caring. Okay. I think he remembers, but he doesn't want to go back. His sole purpose is just to return Timothy to his parents. Okay. And this was tough for Stephen because, like you just said, he was just going to drop Timothy off and head back home. He knew his life. He just wanted the heartbreak to end for the next potential victim. Okay.
But when they couldn't find the home, he was at a loss of what to do. With some reluctance, he knows that the only place they can go is the police station. By now, Timothy would be reported missing and they would know how to get him back to the safety of his parents. This is what Stephen is thinking. So hand in hand, Stephen Stainer and Timothy White walk into the police station together to find rescue for Timothy.
When police sat Steven down and asked him to explain the whole situation, he couldn't. He didn't even remember his last name. Like I said, all he could say was, I know my name is Steven. That would be hard to even deal as a police officer, right? Like what the tricky situation. Right. And that line, I know my name is Steven, would actually go on to make headlines across the nation. Both boys were united with their families. Right.
Stephen's family getting the unbelievable call that Stephen was alive and well seven years later. That would be so weird seven years later. That's a long time. Right. So the aftermath of the escape and the discovery was incredible.
Very intense for Steven. For Timothy, it had only been two weeks. For Steven, it had been seven years. He had a whole new life. Within days, he was being interviewed by everyone, even appearing on Good Morning America.
A true crime book and movie both titled, I Know My First Name Is Stephen, are made about the case. That seems like a lot to put on a kid that was just found. Right. I mean, in all ways, Stephen was a hero. He single-handedly made the choice to save Timothy because he didn't want him to go through what he had. He didn't leave for his own well-being.
he left the comfort of the life he knew to help make Timothy's better. And it's really sweet because Timothy saw Stephen as a hero after the time that they had spent together. And there's actually footage of them together, which we will put on our YouTube. And it's so sweet because Stephen is just holding him on his lap in the days following their rescue. And you're kind of like,
everything that that boy has been through and he cares so deeply for Timothy and Timothy cares for him. The last kind of stab at this story is the reality that we see with any survivor, which is what you were just talking about. Stephen was being pushed into a life that he didn't know. He's receiving all of this attention. He doesn't even remember his siblings. His parents are just different now.
And in an interview with Newsweek, just after escaping, Stephen said, I returned almost a grown man. He had been through a lot. And yet my parents still saw me as their seven-year-old missing boy. It's so rough. I don't know what you do. He said, after they stopped trying to teach me the fundamentals all over again, it got a little better.
But why doesn't my dad hug me anymore? Everything has changed. Sometimes I blame myself. I don't know. Sometimes I feel like should I have even come home? Would it have been better off if I didn't? That's heartbreaking. Honestly, that is super, super heartbreaking because I cannot even imagine or fathom a situation like that.
It's just such a harsh reality of a victim. We on the outside think, oh my gosh, he's rescued. Everything's okay now. But no. And he's like, should I have even been rescued? Was my life better in the comfort that I knew? What he did to him mentally is something that, I mean, I think unless you go through that situation, you have no idea. Right. No idea. Yeah.
And there is actually footage of Stephen with his family outside of his same house on Betty Street. And everyone is smiling and happy for his return and there's news cameras everywhere. But in the very back of the footage, it's really eerie, you can see Carrie, Stephen's old best friend, his older brother, his hero.
standing alone in the back with his hat on with not even a smile on his face. I forgot about, I forgot about Carrie. I forgot about that. What is this whole world that no one knows? Like this whole new world that no one even knows how to handle. Steven is put into Carrie's room. So they share a room and they do not get along. All they do is fight. And despite Steven's desperate need for professional help,
like psychologically, his parents were completely against it. They claimed that he was fine, that he didn't need any help. He was home now. So everything's better. And once again, this is just the stigma against getting help for your mental wellbeing, especially back in the eighties. Another point is that not only had Steven been kidnapped and now aggressively shot back into a life he didn't know, he had also been molested for the last seven years. And it seemed like this,
no one wanted to talk about it. His parents didn't allow him to talk about it, which then led to him not wanting to because it pushed shame onto him for what had happened to him. He never talked about the details with anybody. And although every adult felt sympathy for what Stephen had gone through, when Stephen went back to school, other kids his age only saw his abuse as homosexual and he began being bullied for that part of his abduction. Oh, that's so messed up.
And his sexuality was constantly under attack at school. People were making fun of him for what he had been through. That's so that's super messed up. It's not cool at all. And this makes me think about what he said in his interview would have been better if I had stayed because back at his old school, he had a girlfriend. He was on the football team. He had friends. He had a productive life.
And on top of all of this, Stephen then has to go to trial and face Kenneth again. By the next morning after he was rescued, March 2nd, 1980, Kenneth Parnell was arrested. In 1981, he was tried and convicted of kidnapping and sentenced to seven years, but was paroled after only serving five. You are lying to me right now. So he's out. He's out.
Well, okay. He's not out now, but he was out. What do you mean he's not out now? He's dead. Oh. He's died since then. Okay. I want to say good because that's messed up. But he did get out. He did get out after five years.
And if you're like, what the freak, how does this happen? I honestly don't know, but here's what I gather. How is it even possible? That should not be allowed. He only served time for kidnapping. No sexual assault charges happened because apparently all of the times he was sexually assaulted over the seven years happened in so many different counties.
And I guess it would just be too hard to get all of that figured out like jurisdiction wise. So they just decided to drop the charges. Zero words for that. I can't even explain. So he got out. Kenneth got out. And once again, as soon as he got out, he abducted another little boy. What? What?
What did they think was gonna happen? Oh, I'm a change. I'm a changed man now right after five years after five years I'm a completely changed person good news is this time he got caught I mean, that's not good news But at least he got caught and he was sentenced to prison again where he died in 2008 So after all of this and after the media attention fades away Steven is still really struggling and
He now has a drinking problem. He's dropped out of high school because of the bullying and his family has kicked him out of the family home because all he all that's happening is fighting. He makes a little bit of money off of his story, off of the movie, off of the book, but he ends up spending it all on cars and drugs like he is not in a good place.
But by the end of 1985, Stephen has actually worked through some things and goes on to marry 17-year-old Jody and actually has a daughter and a son. He then begins working with child abduction groups and personal safety, talking to people about how it's super dangerous for kids that we need to pay more attention. So he's really kind of turned his life around after really hitting rock bottom emotionally.
after his kidnapping. On December 16th, 1989, just nine years after being rescued, 24-year-old Steven suffers a fatal head wound while on his way home from work when his motorcycle collides with a car in a hit and run accident. The driver was later identified, but that didn't change the fact that Steven had passed away.
500 people attended his funeral and 14 year old Timothy White was a pallbearer. The little boy he saved. And this was, is such a devastating ending to Steven's story that he was then taken away at 24 years old. Especially because he was trying to really turn everything around. I mean, all the odds have been against him his entire life. Right. And now he's trying to turn things around that he's killed in a hit and run. Right. Ugh.
And for someone who was dealt such a horrendous hand, like you were just saying, he went on, he found love, he had children. I mean, that's what we can remember him for. And okay, I know this case seems like it's over, right? And it was already just the biggest no freaking way case. How did he survive? How did he show up seven years later?
But there's one more twist to this case that I have to tell you. And I feel like, not that I'm going to say I know what it is, but I'm going to say it's probably going to come back to Carrie. Am I right? Yes. So after the media attention faded away on Carrie's end, he too is still struggling. He was already struggling. And...
At this point in his life, he's constantly high. He's graduated from high school. He's always high. He's moved to Yosemite and he claims that he's found Bigfoot in Yosemite. And that's all he can talk about is that he has found Bigfoot. Okay.
And after Steven dies at 24 and then Carrie's uncle is murdered and everything combined leads him to basically have a nervous breakdown. - Spirotic control. - I mean, this family was just not dealt a good hand. After the nervous breakdown, Carrie decides to move back to Yosemite 'cause he had moved away. He'd actually gone to a hospital. Now he's moved back to Yosemite.
And he's known for always hanging around naked at the river and smoking weed. Like that's what he's known for in Yosemite. And he's working at a place called the Cedar Lodge, which is not the same Yosemite Lodge that Stephen's kidnapper Kenneth was working at. But I still think it's pretty ironic that his brother went on to move to Yosemite and work at a lodge. Carrie is still very mentally not well.
And between February and July of 1999, are you ready for this? No. The brother of the abducted Stephen Stainer goes on to murder four people. Oh my gosh. Two women and two teenagers staying at the lodge he worked at.
42-year-old Carol, her daughter Julie, and Julie's friend Sylvina. You almost saw it coming, right? Like when you said, this isn't the end, my mind instantly went back to him just because... He showed signs. Yes, correct. And then he also murdered 26-year-old Joey Ruth Armstrong. So these were two separate murders. Insane.
you know, freaked out and murdered one. He's separately murdered. So he's trying to kill people. Yes. And we know this because Carrie actually sent a note to police with directions to the remains, like an anonymous note. And on top of the note, he wrote, we had fun with this one. Evil. Like, like he turned into an evil person, an evil killer, a murderer.
When Kerry was arrested, he told police that he had fantasized about murdering women since he was seven years old. That was long before Stephen was even abducted. In 2002, Kerry was sentenced to death. And as of November 2021, he is still on death row at San Quentin Penitentiary in California. He killed four people. And I think...
This case, I had never heard of this, and I'm kind of unsure how because we have two brothers. The one who...
was abducted, who was molested, who was kidnapped, who's literally textbooks wise, his whole life was destroyed. And he went on to find love and have children and really turn his life around. And then we have the other brother who from the outside, you would consider the lucky one, the one who didn't get kidnapped, the one who stayed home, the one who didn't have to go through this. And he turned out to be a murderer. And then you have the rest of the Stainer kids who are like,
How do you like what even is this family dynamic? What is this family tree? Judge the rest of the kids and the rest of the family. Correct. Which is why I kept them anonymous. Yes. That is horrible all around. Like I all around. Right. I feel so bad for Steven. And then Carrie goes in, kills four people. Like, are you are you kidding me? And has said that he's been fantasizing about it since seven years old, which is very young. Yeah.
Do you think he's just said that though? Because do you think he remembers at seven years old doing that? You know what I'm saying? Do you think it's more of an ego thing? Like, oh, I wanted to do this since I was seven. I've always dreamt of this. Definitely could be. But I think from prepubescent times, he was showing signs of what we know can go on to lead to a predator, you know, weird sexual harassment of women, not being able to have a functioning relationship with a woman. So I think it's,
It was, if not seven, definitely before he was in high school. I'm so, so heartbroken that Steven was kept alive. What are the odds? Kept alive for seven years. Gets, rescues himself, which would have never happened if another little boy wouldn't have been abducted.
Only to be taken from this earth at 24. I wish he would have been able to have the chance to receive some sort of mental care. Right. For someone to help him out. And I hope that, you know, when we go back, I didn't mention it then, but when we talked about him being bullied at high school, I hope we as society have grown. Yeah. I hope that we have under, you know, we understand now more that mental health is important and that
victims can't just run away or they can't just move on. Like victims of anything have to cope. They have to go through it. Like they, they, you know, that it's important to mentally figure things out. And I hope also in high school that no one would be bullied for
for being abducted and molested. I'm sure it will still happen because teenagers are just, you know, can be that way, but I hope that we are doing better as society. So today let's remember Steven for who he was, how strong he truly was a hero. He truly saved Timothy.
only for Timothy, not for himself. He was so strong. And then he went on to have a family, to turn his life around, which I don't even know how you're able to do that. And so this is the story of Stephen Stainer. Okay, you guys, thank you so much for listening. Like we said earlier, it does mean the world. We love you guys so much. And we will see you next week with another episode. I love it. And I hate it. Goodbye.