cover of episode Trump Caught On Tape Talking About Classified Documents

Trump Caught On Tape Talking About Classified Documents

2023/6/28
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Oona Hathaway
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Brooke Gladstone: 本期节目讨论了特朗普非法持有机密文件的案件，重点关注一段录音证据，该录音显示特朗普向未经授权的人员展示了关于美国对伊朗战争计划的机密文件。录音内容表明特朗普似乎并未意识到这些文件的机密性，并将其视为可以随意展示的证据。此外，节目还回顾了此前关于拜登和彭斯处理机密文件的事件，并指出两起案件的差异。特朗普案中，国家档案馆多次要求归还文件，而拜登案中，是拜登的律师主动通知了国家档案馆。两起案件都引发了人们对美国政府机密文件管理问题的担忧。 Oona Hathaway: 美国政府的机密文件数量失控，2017年的数据显示，当年创建了约5000万份机密文件，这其中许多文件是不必要地被列为机密的。过度分类导致了巨大的成本和安全风险，因为接触机密信息的人越多，风险就越大。特朗普海湖庄园发现的机密文件包括最高机密/敏感隔室信息（SCI）文件，这些文件应该保存在政府设施中。此外，过度分类使得政府难以向公众公开其活动，例如无人机项目。这使得政府难以向公众问责，也可能导致记者因报道机密信息而面临起诉，阿桑奇案就是一个例子。作者主张对超过十年历史的文件进行大规模解密，但对涉及来源和方法（特别是人力情报）的信息除外。拥有安全许可的人员不允许查看未经授权泄露的机密信息，这存在一定的荒谬性。

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The audio recording from a 2021 meeting in Bedminster, New Jersey, captures Trump discussing and possibly showing secret documents to an unapproved group, highlighting his potential mishandling of classified materials.

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On Monday, CNN aired a bombshell recording in the classified documents case against former president Donald Trump. The recording, released to CNN by the special counsel working on the Department of Justice’s indictment of Trump, is reportedly of a 2021 meeting in Bedminster, New Jersey, where Trump discussed and seemingly showed secret documents to a group of onlookers. It was just the latest revelation in the government's case against the former president. Classified documents that belonged to former high-level government officials, including but not limited to former President Trump, former Vice President Pence, and President Biden, have been found in unauthorized locations in recent months. These cases vary greatly in volume and severity, but they point to a larger, systemic problem in the American government: the problem of overclassification. The latest data that the government released, in 2017, showed that around 50 million government documents are classified a year by over four million people, including outside government contractors, costing American taxpayers around $18 million, says Oona Hathaway), professor of law at Yale Law School, former special counsel to the Pentagon, and author of the Foreign Affairs article "Keeping the Wrong Secrets)." In this conversation with Brooke, Hathaway talks about the incentives driving government employees to classify so many documents, the differences between the Trump and Biden document dramas, and why labeling so many things as "secret" makes these secrets less safe.* *

*This is a segment originally aired on our January 27, 2023 show, *Sorry, That’s Classified.)

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