cover of episode The Manosphere Celebrates a Win. Plus, M. Gessen on How to Survive an Autocracy

The Manosphere Celebrates a Win. Plus, M. Gessen on How to Survive an Autocracy

2024/11/8
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Brooke Gladstone
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Micah Loewinger
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Michael Loewinger和Brooke Gladstone对2024年美国大选结果表示担忧，认为特朗普的再次当选标志着美国可能正在走向反民主的道路。他们讨论了选举结果对民众情绪的影响，以及媒体在报道中的责任和挑战。他们特别关注了Joe Rogan等有影响力的播客主持人对选举结果的影响，以及如何应对日益增长的虚假信息和另类媒体的挑战。 Brooke Gladstone采访了M. Gessen，探讨了如何在威权统治下生存的策略。Gessen强调要认清说谎是威权统治者的核心策略，制度并不能拯救我们，要记住未来，不要做任何让自己后悔的事情。她还分析了民主党在竞选策略上的不足，以及媒体在报道特朗普时应该采取的策略。 听众的留言反映了对选举结果的各种情绪，包括愤怒、绝望和希望。他们对媒体提出了各种诉求，包括关注特朗普的性别歧视和种族主义言行，了解特朗普支持者的想法，以及提供具体的解决方案。 Joe Rogan作为最受欢迎的播客主持人之一，其对特朗普的认可对选举结果产生了影响。他的播客满足了人们对另类媒体的需求，但同时也容易被特朗普的谎言所左右。 Hassan Piker作为左翼的播客主持人，批评了特朗普支持者，并关注男性空间中的右翼激进化问题。他认为，旧的新闻模式已经消亡，新的媒体网络正在兴起。 Dana White在特朗普的胜选演讲中提到了Nelk Boys, Aidan Ross, Theo Vaughn和Joe Rogan等播客主持人，这反映了互联网，特别是针对年轻男性，已经发生了演变。

Deep Dive

Key Insights

Why did Joe Rogan, who previously held progressive views, endorse Donald Trump?

Rogan's endorsement of Trump is attributed to his disillusionment with the Democratic Party after Bernie Sanders was sidelined in 2020 and his gradual shift influenced by right-wing guests on his podcast.

What are M. Gessen's rules for surviving autocracy?

M. Gessen's rules include understanding that lying is the point, not just a strategy, and that institutions will not save you. They emphasize the importance of remembering the future and not making compromises, while being outraged and active beyond just voting.

How does M. Gessen suggest the press should cover a second Trump term?

M. Gessen advises the press to approach coverage with trepidation, avoiding normalization of Trump's actions. They suggest pathologizing Trump's behavior just enough to highlight its abnormal nature without overdoing it, and to constantly question how coverage might affect future elections.

What does M. Gessen believe is the Democratic Party's Achilles heel?

M. Gessen identifies condescension as the Democratic Party's major flaw, particularly the tendency to assume that Trump voters are voting against their own interests rather than expressing deep dissatisfaction with the current system.

How does M. Gessen view the role of emotion in political leadership?

M. Gessen believes that great political leadership appeals to the best in people, fostering a sense of collective strength, goodness, and generosity. They cite Barack Obama as an example of a leader who managed to make people feel their country was better than they thought.

What does M. Gessen predict for the future under Trump's second term?

M. Gessen anticipates an autocratic breakthrough under Trump, similar to what Viktor Orbán did in Hungary, involving rapid and decisive changes to the system that will make it difficult to reverse autocracy through electoral means.

Why did M. Gessen choose Langston Hughes' poem 'Let America Be America Again' to end their book?

M. Gessen selected the poem because it encapsulates the dream of American democracy, a vision of a country moving towards greater freedom and equality rather than away from it, which they see as essential for surviving autocracy.

Chapters
The influence of Joe Rogan in the 2024 election is examined, looking at how his endorsement of Trump and his podcast's reach played a significant role in shaping voter opinions.
  • Joe Rogan's interview with Trump was viewed 46 million times on YouTube.
  • Rogan's endorsement is seen as a key factor in Trump's victory.
  • The podcast landscape has evolved to become a powerful political tool.

Shownotes Transcript

Since Donald J. Trump won the election, journalists have been retreading his path to victory, and discussing how the press should cover his next presidency. On this week’s On the Media, hear how a group of powerful podcasters helped boost Trump to his second term. Plus, an exiled Russian journalist shares rules for surviving an autocracy.

[01:00] Hosts Brooke Gladstone and Micah Loewinger and Executive Producer Katya Rogers discuss the day after the election. We also hear from OTM listeners about how they’re feeling post-election, and what they want to see covered in the next Trump presidency.

[14:13] Host Micah Loewinger muses on the influence of Joe Rogan in this election, and looks at how Rogan, who previously said he held progressive views, ended up endorsing Trump.

[28:13] Host Brooke Gladstone interviews M. Gessen), opinion columnist at The New York Times, about their rules for surviving autocracy. They discuss the fallacy of Americans “voting against their interests”; what the path of Viktor Orbán suggests about Trump’s next steps; and how to keep the dream of democracy alive.

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