Make Politics Boring Again, Please
54:34 Share

This is an ad by BetterHelp.

What are your self-care non-negotiables? It's hard to make time for the things that keep you healthy, but being consistent with self-care is like working a muscle. And when life gets crazy, that muscle keeps you strong. Therapy is the ultimate self-care, and BetterHelp makes it easy to get started with affordable online sessions you can do from anywhere. Never skip therapy day with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com today to get 10% off your first month.

Hello, everybody, and welcome to the Focus Group Podcast. I'm Sarah Longwell, publisher of The Bulwark, and I am out of the office this week. I am traveling, so we are going to give you guys a bit of a treat. I hear from a lot of you that your favorite part is really just listening to the real people.

And so we're going to give you just the raw audio of one of our latest focus groups. This group was a group of Trump 2016 voters who then did not vote for him in 2020. So these are our swing voters in this group. All but one voted for Biden and they were from Ohio, Georgia and Pennsylvania. They're all women.

And we wanted to see how they were thinking about the big races in their states. Obviously, from Doug Mastriano to Herschel Walker to J.D. Vance, there are some low-quality Republican candidates running in those states with really extreme positions on abortion. I think that shifted the focus from sort of a referendum on Democrats to a choice election. And I use...

deliberately both to say that it is now about the right to choose. The abortion issue is obviously looming large, but also just a choice between Democrats and

and these very sort of extreme Republicans. And even if you're frustrated with Democrats, you're looking at some of these Republicans and thinking, I don't know. So Megan from my office is the moderator. I hope you guys enjoy this and I will be back next week. Although I got to tell you, I got good news and I got bad news. The good news is that this podcast has an incredible audience, very devoted, who show up every week to listen to the focus groups and the analysis.

And I really appreciate all of you listening. If you love this show, you should go leave a review at Apple Podcasts. But the bad news is, I don't know if it's bad news. I think it's kind of good news. For the remainder of our season, we are going to go behind a paywall. So if you are not a Bulwark Plus subscriber, this is going to become a Bulwark Plus product.

And we hope that you will subscribe to The Bulwark to hear the rest of the season of this show, because obviously it's going to get pretty interesting here as we go into the general election. In return, we're going to ungate and make free The Next Level, which is the podcast that I do with Tim Miller and Jonathan V. Last.

After Labor Day, that is going to become free and public and come out behind the paywall. So we're going to do a little bit of a trade here. But if you listen to this podcast and you love it, we'd sure appreciate if you could go become a Bulwark Plus member. You get a lot of benefits other than just this podcast. But thanks so much for sticking with us and for being a great audience, for sending all your questions and comments. And I'll catch you guys next week.

Okay, well, so I just want to establish kind of a baseline of where everybody's coming from. Everybody here was a Donald Trump 2016 voter and a non-Donald Trump 2020 voter. But let's kind of find out what that means. So for non-Trump 2020, who here voted for Joe Biden? We'll do a show of hands. Okay, so this is everybody but ******. Why don't you tell us who you voted for in 2020?

I completely went independent on my voter registration. So I voted for Joe Jorgensen and the Libertarian Party. Sure. And then...

I'm curious how you guys identify politically these days, which I know is either imperfect buckets I'm going to ask you to put yourself in. But just for the point of this exercise, if you guys could do your best, I'll ask if you consider yourselves current Republicans, former Republicans or independents.

And we'll start there. So who still identifies as a Republican? Show of hands. Okay, so we've got four, about half the group here. Who considers themselves a former Republican?

Okay. So we've got about a couple of Republicans and about half to a little more than half that are former Republicans. And then I'm also curious where on that spectrum you guys self-identify, very conservative, conservative, center-right, moderate, or just dead in the middle moderate. So where are my very conservative people? Okay.

uh, and where am I conservative? So just conservative. We have no very conservatives. And how about center right moderate? So two, and then who's finding themselves dead center these days? One, two, three, four, five, six. Okay. So six out of nine on that. Okay. So like I said, just sort of some baseline setting here. Um, thinking about

changing parties, changing votes in 2020. I'm curious, and I'll let everybody share a little bit about that. But thinking about that 2020 vote, most of you were for Biden. One of you were for third party Joe Jorgensen. But would you say that vote was an anti-Trump vote? You weren't going to vote for him again, didn't like what you were seeing in those four years. Or would you say that was an affirmative vote

For Joe Biden, you liked him. You liked what you were hearing. For Joe Jorgensen, you liked her. You liked what she had to say. So let's see my anti-Trump votes for 2020. Okay, so nearly everything. You liked Joe Jorgensen, liked what she had to say. Okay.

We'll start with you. So take me back just a bit. Tell me in 2016 why you decided to vote for Trump and then in 2020 why you decided to not vote for Trump again and go ahead and vote for Biden, how you were thinking about it. Well, I didn't like the Clinton machine. I mean, there's just my perception is that there's like a machine that's kind of behind her that, you know, is going to be this, that or the other policy and it's going to get done and it's going to get done that way.

And I didn't like that. And I didn't know everything I probably should have known about Donald Trump. But that is what largely precipitated my vote in 2016.

And in 2020, I didn't perceive that Biden had some big machine behind him. And the country had already been torn apart for four years over all of this shenanigans that's been going on. And I just wanted someone that would get us back to like someplace relatively normal. Like make politics boring again, please. But that was my thinking. Yeah.

Brings up a good point. I'm going to ask it two ways. I want to show hands for who would classify their 2016 vote as an anti-Clinton, just couldn't do it, couldn't vote for her. And who was a pro-Trump, really liked him, liked what he had to say. So where are my anti-Clinton votes? One, two, three, four, five, six. Okay, so six out of nine. So let me hop over to Adrienne. Why don't you tell me how you were thinking in 16 and then 20? In 16, I kind of was...

Anti-Clinton. I just felt as a, everything she said as a woman did not hit to me as a woman. I didn't feel like everything she portrayed was what I believed and felt like she kind of clumped all women in together. And I probably didn't know as much about Trump as I should have. And then in 2020, I,

It was kind of the lesser of two evils. I wasn't necessary all for Biden, but I thought at the time he was probably the better choice out of the two. OK. And tell me how you were thinking about it in 16 and then 20.

So I guess like my political beliefs, I've always kind of spawned like from early on, like I couldn't ever classify myself as one or the other. I always brought up different things like in high school discussions, college discussions. So when I voted for him in 2016, it was more how he was very no BS kind of guy. I like straightforward and that seemed like what he could bring to the table. Um,

And then in 2020, I decided to just go full on with my my gut and just go completely independent because most people don't even know that there's a third option. So there's like some percentages you have to hit to be able to get the third option on the ballot. And like that's like what a lot of third party libertarians are trying to do right now is just get.

the idea that there is another option. You don't have to pick between the lesser of two evils. And Joe Jorgensen is legitimately wonderful person who has nice, good morals, no sketchy backgrounds, no creepy things. Like as a woman, she is appealing and cleaner ways than Hillary Clinton was. And,

She resonates with me as a person, as a woman, somebody I'd be proud to explain to my kids how presidents work and how our democracy and essentially our republic should work. So sorry for the long winded answer, but helpful. Tell me about 16 and 20 for you.

Okay, again, raised in Kansas City, two Democratic parents. I was always strong Republican from early on, and I think it was driven by fiscal responsibility, which always kept me under the Republican perspective, historical anyway. So 2016, I

felt similar to whoever just said that about, I didn't believe that Clinton fairly represented all women on her platform.

or appearances or whatever it is. Again, from the traditional Republican voting for me, it of course leaned me towards Trump. I had reservation with him, but like someone else said, I did appreciate what appeared to be forthrightness at the time, kind of the no BS mannerism. I also kind of thought, oh no, he is a bit hokey and how's this going to play out on an international stage? Because again,

I don't know how well respected he's going to be, but I also thought, well, Ronald Reagan was an actor and I always felt that he became a really strong leader for our country. So that was one of the reasons I thought, don't cut him short too quickly. Fast forward to 2020, disappointed in just some of his behavior, the

the divisiveness that I felt was building under his leadership within the country is someone said, can't we just go back to quiet politics again? I'm just so exhausted of the noise and the extremists on both sides just exhaust me. I really believe that

the majority of our country is kind of in the center and they'll have a few hot buttons that are important to them. But I think most of us are normal. These small percentages on the edges

are starting to run the country. And that's just concerning for me. So I thought, well, I really haven't in my life voted Democratic, but I just felt like Joe just seemed a little stable. I knew he had a lot of international experience, which I thought was going to come into play. It certainly has as far as diplomacy. So I kind of went with the lesser of the two evils. And how about you, Brian?

Well, I'm going to preface this by saying that in 2016, I was 22. So still not really what I would consider in the adult world yet. I was in grad school, still taking a lot of my politics and my political views from my parents, which I think is understandable. I went four-year college into graduate school, and I was in my first year at the time.

And the vote for Trump was anti-Clinton all the way. Because my reasoning at the time was that I did not want a career politician in the White House. I'm tired of politicians. We had too many of them, was my opinion. And I also thought it would be interesting to have not a politician, but someone with a background in business.

in the White House because a country, you could think of it as just one large business. You can't run it into the ground. That's pretty important. And those were my most cognizant points when I was voting at the time. Four years later, I had a little more life experience and I had realized that even though you have a businessman in the White House,

Even though there were objectively some good decisions, the way in which he was behaving, other countries already viewed us discouragingly. And it seemed like Trump was just giving them more and more ammunition.

The amount of satire, the amount of cartoons, the amount of jokes, it embarrassed me. I didn't want him in the White House anymore because of his conduct. I'm not sure how much of it is just rumor, but I know the effect it's having, and I wanted that to stop. Okay. How about you?

So in 2016, I like, oh, somebody that does business and everything. I thought, okay, we need... At that point, politics was kind of boring. I was like, yeah, okay, maybe a business person would kind of help things along and everything. And by 2018, I've traveled the world. And I have...

the way that we were laughing stock. Like literally, I went to Poland and was helping people learn English and I meant he, literally his whole presentation was making fun of Americans and Donald Trump. And he was literally like, is he a genius or is he a buffoon? The

the rhetoric that he was doing and how it was just making everybody think that that's how Americans are. And I'm like, it was just totally not my cup of tea at that point. Um, so 2020, I did vote for Joe Biden. Um, it was definitely an anti Donald Trump vote. Um,

Again, as everybody said, I wish politics would just be boring again. Like when I was growing up, I never remembered politics ever being like this. And I do feel these extreme groups on either side are just fueling it. And unfortunately, the media does fuel

elevated and everything because where I'm from I don't see that at all I mean I just feel like I live in normal America I mean I don't see the crazy things that I see on the news all the time so I'm just like I just want to go back to that so yeah um so why don't we go ahead and um skip on over to

How are you thinking about it in 16 and 20? Probably a lot of repeats, but I was definitely not voting against Hillary Clinton. I was just a lifelong Republican and I had many, many reservations about Donald Trump. But as was said before, I think I really convinced myself that the businessman concept was something new. And I

I am a big believer in both the country running as a business and also the public relations and optics and all of that, which is not why I voted for Donald Trump, but it's why I didn't vote for Donald Trump the second time around. But I think at that time in 2016, I was probably pretty

busy and distracted and not as educated as I should have been. And my husband was definitely very influential. So I was getting a lot of information from him. I'm not proud to say that, but I'm going to admit it. And so then, you know, four years later, um,

I was very embarrassed and I am a big advocate of the public relations of any business. So I think that was just so horrific. And then just to pile on to that, the divisiveness in the country. I mean, I, you know, we've never seen anything. Well,

We've never seen anything like this. It very likely existed. You know, we didn't have Twitter back in the 1800s, so it might have looked very similarly. And my vote in 2020 was definitely not for Joe Biden. It was it was definitely just against Donald Trump. It was most certainly the the lesser of two eagles.

Did your husband vote for Trump again? He did. And he was horrified for four years and still voted for Trump again. So it felt like a wasted trip to the polls that night. Okay, f***.

How are you? Definitely anti-Clinton. Everyone's really said everything very well. Congratulations. But the, you know, anti-establishment, if Joe Biden was running in 2016, I would have voted for him then. So fast forward, I feel he's very honest. I felt he had experience, would work across the aisle. And it was definitely for Joe, but also anti-Trump both together.

Tell me about your vote for Trump in 16 a little more. Anti-Clinton. That was the establishment. That's who they wanted. Yes. I didn't feel that was the right choice. And like everyone else said, you have hope, you know, not the established politician or the people, business background, everything that was said to us. And you're just hopeful because it was so anti-establishment.

Okay. So I was, I like everybody else was very pro business. I run the business end of our dental practice. And so I really figured that he could run the country like a business and we would be successful.

There were some things that I agreed with him. And then I just really wanted him to not say another word. If he just could have been quiet, I think he would have been elected again. And if he wasn't like trying to always poke the bear or say things,

From Twitter, like when once you become president, you have to become presidential. You have to be that person that we all look up to. And I agree with other people. We were a laughingstock around the world.

I wasn't in love with Hillary. I don't love the way that she presents herself. I don't love the way she presents women all the time, like we said. And I think she often makes more enemies than makes friends. When someone would talk about Ronald Reagan, and I mean, I can tell you where I was when he was shot. He was a president that you looked up to.

And I was young at the time, but it seems that all of politics has just gotten into this like alarmist. We need our 15 minutes of fame or our 30 minutes of fame. There's no depth. And we've become a country that is so divided. Families have been divided. Friendships have been lost.

because of this. And I don't remember this when I was growing up. I don't even remember this prior to Bill Clinton, where we had such problems that we couldn't come together as a country. I blame a lot of it on the media. It's like a scare tactic. We need to make progress in the country. And it seems like we're so divided that we can't even come together on anything. And I feel like our country is going backwards.

And not forward. And it scares me. It scares me. It scares me as a mother of a daughter. You know, when you asked about are we Republicans? I'm a fiscal Republican, but I am a social Democrat. You be you. You be happy being you.

But you shouldn't have to tell me who I can be. And let's work together to make this economy strong and make us have a presence in this world where we were looked up to and where we're thought of as also we can take care of others, but we really take care of ourselves. So...

completely dovetailed into my next question. I was going to go around the room, get us kind of caught up. So my question to the group next, and I'll go around, but my question is, how do you think things are going right now in the country? Is there anything you want to add that was a pretty...

Like you knew that's what I was going to ask. I tried. Yeah, you pretty much nailed it. But if there's anything you want to add, I can also come back to you at the end once the other ladies have spoken, if anything. No worries. But why don't you take it? How do you think things are going? I mean, Twitter's a lot more quiet.

have zero respect for Joe Biden as a person, as a leader. He is embarrassing in different aspects. I think he's also delusional and

I don't know if he's just cooped up in the White House and only says what people tell him to say because the things like I've seen like come from his like like social media accounts and news articles like I, I honestly try to avoid like mainstream news on TV I tried to like if something comes up.

through searches and whatever I tried to like look into it myself, the extremist media was like literally affecting my mental health. So I spent a lot of time outside away from technology. I think like what has become more important to me is local politics. I have a lot more influence there. I must keep my TV off because I'm still embarrassed.

What do you think? How do you think things are going? It's hard because my daughter just turned 13 and my son is 14 and a half and they are getting to the point where they ask a lot of questions or, you know, taking classes in school and trying to understand what's going on. And it's hard for me to explain to them that these are our options. I'd love to have a 30 party option that could be,

blow the other two out of the water. I guess I'm not at the point where I have faith that we're going to get enough votes to make a difference. And I'd like to see that change. And it's hard to explain to them why we have a 79-year-old president and why the people in

Congress are as old as they are. And they're the ones who are making decisions, you know, like we from any other job, you retire at a certain age, you know, and if he's going to run again, he's going to be, you know, 85 years old. But at the same point, I don't know who wants to be the president right now, either, you know, and it but it's hard for me to explain to them that,

this is what it's coming down to. You know, like, yeah, Donald Trump made a lot of noise in the

Every time he opened his mouth, it was like, my goodness, like my kids have to hear this, you know, what he's saying. And I think the only changes is that Joe Biden doesn't talk, you know, I mean, like he talks so little. One of my kids asked me a couple of months ago, is he still the president? Like, you know, cause you don't hear anything. You never, so I don't know. I don't, I don't think it has changed much at all. I don't think it's any better. And

I don't know. I don't know what we can do as a country to have a better option because it's not great. And this is not what I'd like to see my kids grow up and have to deal with. How do you think things are going? Frustrated. I'm frustrated with the government taking away women's rights. I'm frustrated with

Some states like on what teachers can teach and how we can treat our students and making sure that they can get everything that they need and, um,

having to basically ignore things and that's not what they need. I'm frustrated with the economy. I mean, I have had to turn off the news and this summer has been amazing just being outside and kind of like putting it all out. Like I haven't heard what students are telling me or anything like that. So I've kind of like had a mental refresh over the summer minus me watching like the January 6th like trials, which...

Unfortunately, then you like it brings back things. And I'm just like, how do we do this? So I feel better that we're not having riots like that right now. But I'm very frustrated, too. So that's where I'm at. Can I get a quick show of hands of who else watched some of the January 6 hearings, some of the coverage? Keep them up. Let me see. OK, so we've got.

You know, everybody watched some of the coverage, some of the hearings. That's good. Okay. How do you think things are going? I'm very concerned.

The country's just absolutely divided. It's not just either president, but it's the Congress, the Senate. To me, it just seems like kindergarten, arguing amongst themselves, believing what they want to believe. I don't feel they have the voters or their people's best interest in mind. And I honestly feel...

That money lets the candidate win. How we said Hillary was the establishment and she had the money. Trump had the money. And it's like whoever our new candidates are going to be are going to survive because they could put the most money into a campaign. It all gets done, to me at least, to finances. And it's just, it's alarming. How about you? Well, first of all, you know, like I react emotionally every time I hear Joe Biden attacked on the basis of his age.

I don't know if any of you are interested in the Rolling Stones, but did you know that Mick Jagger is 79? Is anyone going to tell Mick Jagger that he shouldn't be Mick Jagger anymore because he's 79? I don't think so. If you don't like his style, you don't like his substance, then vote for somebody else. But don't say because he's too old. That just pisses me off. But where I think we are now as a country is that

Everyone is so segmented on the Democratic side of the spectrum. You have the very progressive Democrats that are as much of a craw in Biden's throat as anything else, so that even the party, the Democratic Party, can't get its shit together on anything. And it's not Joe Biden's fault. He's like violently moderate. This is like a really moderate guy. And just Congress is not going to let him.

get very little of anything. He got some things done just last week that nobody thought he was going to get done because everybody wants something. They want either really extremely liberal things and then Republicans want like

Well, there's hardly any moderate Republicans left. God bless Mitt Romney, Liz Cheney, but there's hardly any moderate Republicans left. So you don't have anybody on that side that you can even work with anymore. So the center is not there anymore. There's no center that holds. Every time I hear Joe Biden being attacked, I'm thinking, you ought to be throwing flowers at this man's feet. We would have another term, Donald Trump, if it were not for this man.

This is the guy that everyone felt like people could vote for. And they did. But instead of like, OK, let's work with you. They're attacking him. That's where I see it. Sorry. Sorry to unload. No, it's all right. Thoughts. How do you think things are going? Not great. I feel things could be way worse again with different leadership.

I think that the art of compromise is getting lost on the two extremes. I feel like I'm an intelligent person that I can watch the news or read an article and filter through the BS and the propaganda, so to speak. When I see things like that, what's frustrating for me is

I feel that there's a large group in our population base that do not step back and analyze for themselves. It's easier to listen to sound bites and follow that, which is so frightening. And I feel like our society right now just lives on those sound bites.

It seems like just single topics are dividing things. Again, women's right. And I'm with all of you. And even though I'm conservative in many ways, I don't want anyone telling me what I can or cannot do with my body. And I don't want to judge anyone else who makes their choices that are right for their life. Yeah.

Like many of you, I kind of shut things off. It's exhausting. I mean, even our local politics here in Pennsylvania, I guess we all, based on the states that are represented, there's a lot going on in each state as well that's concerning. I'm like, oh my gosh, I just can't believe some of the choices we're going to have to make between certain candidates. Yeah. Who in Pennsylvania do you find most frustrating?

I think Mastriano is just like a nut job, just extremely frustrating. And in watching the debates, I was like, okay, we have a few rational Republicans on this panel here. And I'm like, God, you know, how can we kind of get them going? Because I think ultimately they're going to, um,

have the chance to maybe get more things done across both aisles and back to rational people dealing with rational people. And yet what happens is Mastriano gets, you know, the Republican nomination. I was like, oh my gosh. So, you know, you've got that, you've got Dr. Oz as the other option. So it's just making it very easy for me to be like,

Oh, it's going to be easy to vote line item by line item instead of straight Republican ticket or straight Democrat looking at each. This is what I finally came to as a more mature through many years of voting. I used to feel comfortable doing pretty much straight line on something. These days, no way. It's line item by line item by line item, even though I still vote.

relate and I'm still registered Republican, no way am I voting for Mastriano or Oz. So my vote will go to the Democrats on that. Some of the most extreme things are about Mastriano that keep you from not doing it. And inversely, do you kind of like some things about Fetterman or Shapiro? I like some things about all of them.

It's the things I strongly dislike that will keep me away. For example, Mastriano, big anti-vaxxer, big anti-don't tell us what to do with our bodies. Yet in the same breath, oh, all women, yeah, abortions will be banned. And he's going to try to tell me what to do with my body, even though he's saying the government shouldn't tell him what he should do with his body. Talk about confusing messaging. I'm like,

Dude, like if it works for you, great. But if you're female, it's not to work for you. So I cannot stand his mixed message on that at all. I don't like his participation and rallying prize for January 6th events. That just wrong.

Again, I'm not from Pennsylvania originally, but I have lived here over 20 years. I feel like it's my home. I don't like his skirty way about coming into the

politics in Pennsylvania without any skin in the game. He, you know, he's kind of sliding across the border and he's a, he's a Trump puppet. Um, but then I go to Shapiro and, you know, I, I feel like he has taken on some tough battles within his experience as attorney general. Um,

that I think was for betterment of the people in general, but he just seems more stable, more rational, more stable. So,

I'd be remiss in this group full of women not to ask you guys how you were thinking about abortion being on the, it's I think fair to say it's on the ballot in all of your states, Ohio, Georgia, Pennsylvania coming up this fall. So I'm curious how you guys are thinking about that. I promise we were not going to litigate abortion. We only have, you know, half hour left anyway. My question is this. So we've got,

In each of your races, actually. So we've got talking about Mastriano in Pennsylvania. You've got Vance in Ohio in the Senate. He's the Republican Senate nominee. And you've got Herschel Walker in Georgia. And these are all guys that are the Republican nominees for Senate and governor who have said that they believe in no exceptions for abortions. And I'll actually ask...

Do you think that no exceptions is too extreme? Yes. Okay. Talk to me about that. And how do you think about that when you're going to be voting this fall? Okay. Truthfully, I'm pro-life because I feel that at conception, it is a person. As I said, I do not judge others. Personally, I wouldn't want to be a politician making these decisions. And I feel it should be on the ballot. Let the majority of the people vote.

and let that be the role. So instead of it being a question, it's going to be through these candidates who are kind of running on these platforms of how, of what their decisions are. So truthfully, that wouldn't change my mind to vote for a candidate. Either way. What are you're in Pennsylvania? What are your thoughts on Mastriano? No.

Yeah.

yeah, Mastriano is absolutely dangerous, but I'm voting for Shapiro based on his track record of going after the priests that molested children and adults. And yes. How are you thinking about Mastriano, Shapiro and Oz Fetterman? Similarly, I find Shapiro to be appealing. You know, I don't claim to be

on everything current and I don't have a ton of time to do the research and I should, but I also appreciate the battles that Shapiro has taken on. I do feel like he seems to be kind of rational and

cognitively and emotionally normal, which maybe he's not, but we haven't seen any evidence that I'm aware of. Otherwise, I think that Mastriano is terrifying. He feels far more extreme than Trump to me. Trump was smart enough even to not be saying things quite this extreme at this point in a

in a political race. So, yeah, I would say I will be... What about him do you think seems more extreme than Trump? You know, I guess it's...

The abortion stance, I do find it hard to relate to. I would say I would consider myself generally to be a pro-life person, but to me, it's absolutely absurd to say that there are no exceptions to that.

I am pro-choice. I do believe that people, that every woman should have the ability to make her own choices. But, you know, if I was going to lean a little bit more, it might be a little more pro-life. But to say that,

There are no exceptions to that. I think about how that would have impacted my own life. Okay, sure. I'm going to skip over to you because you're in Ohio. So you've got J.D. Vance, who's the Republican nominee for Senate, who had originally said that he would support no exceptions and no exception ban on abortions in Ohio. Do you have any thoughts on him? Are you familiar with him at all?

Just based on the fact that he says no exceptions, I wouldn't vote for him. Okay. Do you know much about his opponent? Not that much. I'm not that involved in local politics, but just knowing that that is his stance. No, he doesn't. I'm voting for someone that is not him. Got it. Talk to me about Herschel Walker. Oh, Herschel Walker. So if you watch some of the commercials,

He doesn't look like he's all there. And it's a little scary. I'm not sure. For me, he seems like a puppet. And someone's got his hands up his shirt and kind of controlling him.

It's been very depressing kind of being a Republican in the state of Georgia. A lot of us in Georgia took a Republican ballot, even though we didn't intend to vote Republican in November. But we took a Republican ballot because we wanted to make sure that any Trump anointed candidate did not make it. Yeah, there were quite a few names, but I think it was like pretty locked in for a while. I took the Republican ballot.

I voted for Gary Black, the agriculture commissioner, but you know, that didn't work.

All these candidates get on the ballot to begin with, and then they rise to the top. Well, because you have primaries, and the most diehards turn out to the primaries. I'm beginning to think that ranked choice voting is probably a better way to go, because then it's not the diehards on either side that are finally going to put people on the ballot for a general election.

So for the fall midterms, will you be crossing over again and voting for? I'll be voting for Warnock. Definitely. I don't like him either. You may not like him, but it's like, do you want? I don't want Walker and I don't want Warnock. I don't like what Warnock has been spending. I don't like what he's been spending.

The things that he votes for, the thing like the IRS new auditors and 27,000 new people like God and like... Babies, let me tell you something.

The IRS owes me and my husband $1,300. They have owed it to us for more than a year. They agree in principle they owe us $1,300. I cannot get through to the IRS. Oh, I know. Call them. It takes like a week to even get into the queue on hold. And then you're on hold for a whole day. And then some poor person takes your call and you explain it to them and they agree with you. They agree. Yep.

It should be this, should be that. But, you know, here I am a whole more than a year later. So, yes, put the money into the IRS. Let them hire people. Better systems. Yes. I just I unfortunately I'm a when it comes to that, I'm like a C, none of the above. I don't like any of that. And I'm trying to figure out who is my least who's the least worst. But, you know, Walker is just going to vote for whatever they tell him to vote for.

Exactly. He's a puppet. He's totally a puppet. So how are you guys thinking about Kemp and Abrams? Again? How about we just see none of the above? Kemp is playing it very smart for this election cycle. You know, I have done a lot of legislative work at the Capitol for years, and things became extreme when Kemp was elected. But Kemp, to his credit, is not...

talking about how extreme he actually is. I think Kemp's going to be reelected. Will I vote for Stacey Abrams? Probably yes. I'll probably vote for Stacey Abrams. Not crazy about Stacey Abrams. No, I'm not. But I think, you know, for Georgia to get out of this ditch that we're in, I think it's going to take maybe a split government. We've never had that. A split between Democrat and Republican parties.

But if we get that, it might be very interesting to see. I don't think Stacey can ever be as liberal in Georgia as people think she's going to be. And there's things that are coming out of her campaign I'm not happy with, but that's what I will do. I was just filling out, taking care of my kids' absentee ballots today, making sure that they were going to get theirs because they're all in school. Yeah, you have to vote. I just, it gets harder and harder. And...

What Kemp has done economically in Georgia, I can give him a thumbs up. But socially and the whole heartbeat, frightening. My daughter told me a very scary thing last weekend. We're moving her into college and things like that. And one of the things we were talking about was just her cell phone or whatever. And she told me, this is the night before I'm moving her in, she has gotten rid of her, she had an app that tracked her period.

Yeah, she needs to get rid of that. She definitely needs to get rid of that. She'll end up getting like... Yes! I thought, here's my 18-year-old daughter who's got to think... To me, that was one of the greatest... That's how you do it. Great innovation, but she has... What?

What is this? I've heard of this. It's, you know, people say that they're getting rid of their phone app on Apple phones where you can track your cycle and people are getting rid of it because they're afraid that that'll get subpoenaed because you can have your phone subpoenaed, you know, and if you look as if you are planning that you. Yes, there is an abortion.

And I want to say, you know, like, Kemp will talk about, well, we have exceptions for rape and incest, but there needs to be a police report. How many police reports do you think accompany incest or even rape? Like,

12 year old kids do not file police reports. They hope to God they're not pregnant. And like, they are pregnant. They deny it for as long as they possibly can until I can't. I worked at the Capitol for all that 2019 when that bill was being passed. It was like one of the most awful experiences of my life to watch all of this stuff going down. And I,

I have heard every argument for and against. It's horrible. It's horrible. And it was just political when it got done. That's it. Sure. So I'm going to pull in. I know we're kind of winding down here and then I'm going to do a little lightning round of a bunch of stuff I want to ask you guys about. So I'll pull together. My Pennsylvania girls, ladies, women. Sorry. Any Oz fans out there?

Nah. Do you guys tell me what you guys think of Mastery on over here. I am all for Shapiro I think he is level headed, I just think he is just all inclusive of trying to help everyone I think that's coming from, like,

his record of showing what he's done for the state already. Master, I know I, I hate to say it, but your students will be taught by half of basically all the teachers there because he's slashing budgets and there will be no teachers teaching anybody. So just speaking from that side and Oz, he can go back to Jersey and,

Fetterman is running an amazing, hilarious campaign with his charcuterie boards. And we call this a veggie. Like it's spot on and so cheap and I love it.

Yeah, so creative. And you know what he is getting? Those millennials that are like on the TikTok and Snapchat, like all of those. And just, he's not even saying much. I mean, he's not doing these huge bashing commercials. I mean, literally, he is holding up a veggie tray. That's it. It's great. I love it. Yeah. I feel like I could explode. You have a third option.

You don't have to pick between the lesser of two evils. While you might not know their names because they don't have the money, they don't have the backing. Joseph Soloski just got, we are approved for the ballot in Pennsylvania. He is independent. If you just go on, like, look up his site, like, you will see a super quick, like,

Where he stands, he's in the middle. He's bringing the power back to the people. Like we forget that we run this and they don't, although with their money, they do. It's just like, you do have a third option. It's going to take time and people and communication for people to say, Hey, like there is someone who is a little, who is a lot more level-headed, right?

You have a third option. Tell me why you don't like Mastriano. I mean, quite honestly, so, like, the road I live on, everyone is very spaced out. And when, 2020, there was all sorts of Trump signs. And there's, right now, there's anti-Biden flags with the funny sayings against him still up on our street. And I...

And after all of that, we have one Mastriano sign. I honestly, I've spent a lot of my time looking at independents and libertarians and another option. So I haven't looked at him as closely as I need to. I have heard that he is extreme. I'm very much pro-choice, like with the vaccinations, like you can't tell me what to do. Abortion, you can't tell me what to do. I'm in control for perpetrators.

personal fertility stuff, I don't track anything anymore. But just hearing that that's even like a thing, like women can't even like have an easy way to do things on their own personal phones is like mind boggling to me. Like I said, I don't know enough about the Democrat and the Republican candidates because I'm focusing on the third party because I'm just like I have a lot of hope. In a nutshell, you have a third choice.

Got it, man. You're doing the work for the third parties out here for the people. Okay, so I'll do a little quick lightning round. But first, I usually play this game in the groups where it's like a fake little game where if the election were today, I make everybody tell me who that they were going to vote for. But this group is pretty decided, except for ******, so I'm going to put you on the spot. Are you going Kemper Abrams if it's today? I don't know. I really... So you can...

I just really, I can't. It's so hard when I don't like either of them. I would probably split my ballot. So I would probably end up doing, I'd probably do Kemp. Kemp and Warnock? Yeah. Okay. And then would you go Ryan or would you go Vance? Today I'd go Ryan. Okay. Okay. And then another little lightning round. I'm sure you guys have all heard the rumors. So show of hands, who would vote Trump 2024?

Please, no. That is zero out of nine. We've got to have better options as the Republican Party. We can't. It can't get there again. I literally felt like I was going to tear up when you even mentioned that possibility. Yeah, it's so visceral. How many times can you get impeached?

I just it was sort of said before, but I just don't think many normal people want this office anymore. And I think that's what's really scary. I think if Washington or, you know, Lincoln or any one of them would have been under the kind of pressure that you're under now with social media and the media in general. It's just really hard to imagine a really, truly normal person wanting that job again.

Does anybody come to mind on either side of the aisle that you'd like to see? I'd vote for Liz Cheney. How about my Liz Cheney fans? I do like her. Okay, we've got four out of nine for Liz Cheney. Anybody else? But she can't win. She's not going to win, ever. She asked who I'd vote for. Yeah. Yes. How about Joe Biden?

One out of nine. How about a two out of nine? Okay. How about Kamala Harris? Zero out of nine. How about Joe Jorgensen 2024? There we go. I don't know. You might've gotten some Jorgensen curious people after singing her praises. You got to check out Spike Cohen too. Okay. How about Pence 2024?

How about Ron DeSantis 2024? Okay. Nobody else comes to mind. This is kind of part of the problem, right? That like, think of anybody that you guys want to see. We've got one, two for Mitt Romney.

Four for Mitt Romney. Wow. It's kind of one of the best ones. Wait, I voted twice. I didn't count you twice. Don't worry. Okay. Last little bit here. I want to ask you guys about who here has heard about the search going on at Trump's place in Mar-a-Lago by the FBI. Okay. Everybody that's who is unplugged. So that's fine. So we've got about eight out of nine there. Does anybody think that the search is justified? Yeah.

Okay, so we've got, okay, so we've got about eight out of eight on that. Does anybody think it's just purely political? No. Does anybody think this search should continue? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Eight out of eight. Does everybody here trust the FBI to lead the investigation and will trust the findings? One, two, three, keep them up. Four, five.

Five out of nine. Okay. Would anybody trust another, like a bipartisan committee to do it instead? Show of hands, show of hands. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven. How about the Secret Service to do it instead? One. How about an independent investigation?

One, two, three, four. Whole group. Okay. That's going to be it. You guys have been great. I really appreciate all of your thoughts. It's tough time out there. So I appreciate you guys making the time.