The Bro Never Dies with Josh Gondelman
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Hello, and welcome to Normal Gossip. I'm Kelsey McKinney, and in each episode of this podcast, we're going to bring you an anonymous morsel of gossip from the real world. A few little quick items of business before we move into this week's episode with a dear friend that is such a delight. I

I cannot wait for you guys to hear it. The first thing is that I have a book coming out, which is very exciting. You can pre-order it wherever you pre-order books. And I'm going to go on book tour, which is really exciting. And I promise it won't be boring and it will be very fun. And you can get tickets for that at kelseymckinneybook.com.

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Welcome back to the show, Josh Gondelman. Josh is an author, TV writer, and stand-up comedian whose new comedy special Positive Reinforcement is coming out soon. You may also remember Josh from the season one episode about the person who fakes being a marathon runner. Josh, welcome. Hello, Kelsey. I'm so delighted to see you and extra delighted to get to record a podcast with you. Josh, how's your relationship with gossip changed at all since the last time you were here? Absolutely.

I feel like I've been getting a little more gossip lately because I really went hard and was like on the podcast previously. Yeah. People don't tell me the good gossip. And I feel like. That's true. I don't know whether I've been seeking it out more assiduously or whether people know about me that like I do want to hear the gossip.

Wow. So I feel like I'm getting mostly the fun stuff and then occasional, you know, part of the gossip. You cast a gossip net and sometimes you hear things that are less fun. But I would again would rather know if there's bad stuff to be known. Yeah, I was going to ask you about that because the last time you were here, you kind of emphatically said up top, like, I'm only really interested in like possum.

positive gossip. So I wondered, like, has your... Now that you're receiving more gossip, has your opinion on that changed? Yeah. Well, I think it's... Maybe I was...

to neglect the fact that like, I think it's important to hear the tough stuff too, right? To be like, oh, I should be aware of kind of a 360 view of this person that's maybe in my life or in my professional sphere. And so I am, if this was not something I believed then, like if it was, or if it was something I like didn't consider then, I do want to be on the record now saying, I think it's important to know the kind of like why,

whisper networky like oh this person like you know they they've been cruel to these people and like it's just something to know before you like seek out collaboration with them or or whatever um I think that's like a really a really key thing and again I think it's like dude dude to dude that doesn't always get spoken you know you know yeah the bro sip network amongst dudes yeah between bros that's kind of my yeah

That's your sweet spot. Yeah, it's to get former fraternity members to become therapists and treat other bros. And I always feel very trusted when stuff like that is told. Because I think this is like, you know, there's gossip where the soundtrack is like,

upbeat music and you're chatting and gabbing. And then there's gossip where it's like the very special episode music. And like, you know, I, I understand the difference, but I think they're both valuable. Now that people are giving you more gossip, what format are they giving it to you in? Like, are you getting voice memos? Are people pulling you over on the side of the street? What's the, what's the deal?

printing out a gossip newsletter just for you to hand to you yeah gossip zines god i hope i really was hoping to see you i only printed one copy i was either gonna give it to you or to steve from blues clues because he looks just like you um josh yes i heard that you brought a gossip for me i did from your new gossip gathering yeah could i have it of course oh my god great so i

This, this is, I've heard this through several different sources. Okay. There's like a male pop star. Okay. Energy is like,

fairly pleasant let's say like that's their that's their vibe as an artist it's not like they don't have like a horny energy as a performer okay okay it's giving friend yeah yeah yeah yeah not so we're not talking someone in the mode of like the weekend right who you're like oh man this guy just sings to pass time till he can fuck right um yeah big frenergy i think is right and

I don't know what his romantic situation is, whether they have an arrangement with a long-term partner or whether they, you know, whether this is like they are having unspoken romantic engagements. But this person is out and about.

Oh, sensually. Okay. Not out and about sensually. Not, not just, you know, they're not just ribbon cuttings and, uh, they're out and about sitting very close to someone at the bar. Yeah. And when they have romantic experiences,

Oh, no. I'm so scared. You should be. When they reach what I would call to be, you know, to be family friendly, the top of Sex Mountain. No. They ejaculate their own name from their mouth.

No. Yeah. They just belted out to the rafters. The full name. Full legal first name. Full name. First and last name. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's still bad even if it's your first name, but it's worse if it's your first and your last name. Yeah. That's crazy. Like I, okay. I have several things to say here. The first is like,

assuming this person, as you said, is like in some kind of relationship, like maybe that relationship is open. We don't know the details. Yeah. I try not to judge things like that. Yeah. But even if it is, it's like you're never going to be able to be sneaky with your sexual choices if at the end of every orgasm you shout your own name. Like who else would be shouting your own name? I feel like and this is this is going to sound like telling on myself, which it isn't.

Please.

at sex yeah but you can't be eccentric special yeah you can't yeah yes you've got to do a good job because you don't want the stories getting out that like right this guy this guy's dick is backwards it's on backwards

But you can't be doing like wild eccentric things because that's going to make it onto a podcast. It's also kind of wild to me because like celebrities love NDAs, right? It's like they're like so horny for NDAs. They're like, this is my favorite piece of paper that's ever existed. Makes them sing their own name. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Exactly.

But I'm like, getting someone to sign an NDA doesn't prevent this, right? No. Telling your friend, when I had sex with this person, they yelled their own name is just on the table for the taking, right? Yes. You have to know that they're going to be telling people that. Yeah, for sure. And it's especially – yeah, it just feels –

It feels like a real own goal. It really does feel like an own goal. It feels like you're like trying to get caught in some way or you're like trying for this rumor in particular to get out, which is extremely strange. It's so silly. And it's like if I achieved peak sex first and then I – Right. Oh, my God. I feel like that's going to – that's not –

that's not conducive to the other that's like i'm like what's that oh it's like moisture being wicked away to like a like a nike tech suit i had not considered that that this is a situation in which it is possible that your partner is still wishing to continue having sex and you have just shouted your own name i mean maybe right like maybe if i guess if you're like

Okay. They can't possibly. There's – they must be, right, full to the brim with sex. They're done. And then you're like, well, I don't know. I feel like I want to celebrate a job well done. Yeah. But –

It is kind of like, it's like trying to get a stadium to chant your own name. And it's like, that's not really how it works. The stadium has to choose to chant your name. You can't force them to via coercion. I guess, because again, I'm being so gross on this podcast. I love it. It's rare that you're gross. I know. But I feel like when someone who has a penis is

has an orgasm that's the celebration that's like when you dunk you don't then pick up the ball and kick it into the stands you've already dunked

The kicking it into the stands feels like the right metaphor, though, because it's like this adds nothing. It's maybe hurtful. And also, why are you doing it? It's definitely confusing. Yes. Everyone in the stadium's like, huh, we liked it when he dunked. But that was I don't know about that part. Yeah. In fact, a dunk was cool to see, but I probably wouldn't tell someone about it. But then when I kick that into the stands. Wow.

Well, Josh, thank you for bringing this to me. You're welcome. And also to all of us. Truly my pleasure. The thing is, this is like kind of an apt beginning for this, for us to have discussed all of these things, because like the story today is like we're going like bro to bro. We're going bro mode. Look, I'm ready. I'm a bro-pen book. Okay.

Okay, Josh, are you ready? I'm ready. I'm ready.

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progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states. Our friend of a friend today, we're going to call her Crystal. And Crystal is in college. She's at the beginning of her senior year. And you know when you're a senior in college, you have this like unearned confidence, like you're the biggest fish in truly the smallest pond.

You're like old enough to drink legally, but you're also still an idiot. Right. When you're a senior in college, you can be like the booze hero at a party, right? Yes. I brought the Babs. I know I just sounded like fucking Dennis Hopper in Blue Velvet, like Babs Blue Ribbon. But that's like that's what being a college senior feels like. Yes. And it is the first semester of senior year. So you're not like staring down the barrel of adulthood, right?

Right. It's still all fun and games. A psychologically perfect time. Yes. One night, Crystal sees this guy on campus and he invites her on a date as college kids do. Sure. And so she goes on this date and they like they drive around. They go for a walk in a big park. They hit a drive through. It's like a very cute, casual first date. This story meeting just on a quad going to a drive through. This is gossip from 1957. Well, it's not my business. Yeah.

But their conversation is great. She's like, this is really surprising, right? Like, we're really getting along. We both like, like, physical humor. We both like the same fast food hamburger. We have, like, different majors and interests. But he's, like, so cute to Crystal. Sweet. She's like, his smile is like the first firefly you see in the summer. What? What?

Wow. It's Crystal Poet Laureate or Young Poet Laureate. This is from Amanda Gorman. It's also like corny hour, right? Like she's like, I look at him and I feel like the center of the universe. Yeah.

It's so cute. Yeah, you're a family man and you love love. Do you think that this can be enough to fall in love with someone? Yeah, I do think it can be enough to fall in love with someone. I don't know that it's enough to move in with someone. But I think there is a beautiful quality to falling in love and enjoying it for as long as feels wonderful. Yeah, exactly.

Crystal also thinks this and she's like, this is a great first date, right? Like I'm feeling really good. There is something I forgot to mention. And that is that the guy that she's on this date with is named Bam. B-A-M? B-A-M. Okay. Is it a nickname? Is it initials? Is it based on like some kind of action he does? All of this is unclear. Okay.

Crystal on the date is like, why Bam? And Bam's like, what? And Crystal's like, why are you called Bam? Like, why does everyone call you Bam? And he's like, well, that's what everyone calls me. That's God tautology on the first day.

Yeah, she's like, whatever. This guy's name's Bam. That's not my business, I guess. At the end of the date, Bam is like, do you want to go back to my apartment? And Crystal's like, yes. Great. You were once a 21-year-old boy. What is a 21-year-old boy's apartment like? Horrendous. No shelves.

Everything is bed, desk, floor, maybe closet. But that's how stuff, it's like at best for me, it's almost still true as a married person that like the best you're getting out of me is well manicured piles. Yeah.

Crystal has like seen her fair share of 21 year old boys apartments, right? It's not her first rodeo. She knows to expect laundry on the ground. She knows to expect dirty dishes like last semester's textbooks in a pile in the corner. Some roommate playing Xbox too loud, a Navy sheet, right? She's like, I'm aware of all of these things. Right. She's like, I expected to smell faintly of like sweat and Fritos and three in one shampoo. Yep.

She has never seen anything like Bam's apartment.

At first, this apartment seems like kind of normal, like clean even. There's like nothing out. Everything is put away. Okay. But it's like there's no rug. There's no upholstery. Okay. The couch is like covered in like grandma style plastic. Weird. And it's like as if a 21 year old boy tried to childproof an apartment. Like the cabinets are zip tied closed. Yeah. The fridge has a chain around it with a lock.

It's like they got all their design stuff at the serial killer store. I know.

Are you concerned about this apartment? Yeah. There's something that feels off, right? Especially you can't get into the refrigerator. So like, yeah, this feels like a place that like, it's not your place. It's a place that you can bring someone when you don't want them just in your place. Interesting. Crystal feels like a kind of clammy chill when she sees all of this. She's like, why is the oven zip tied?

Like, why are all these doors locked? Why do you have so many zip ties? And Bam's like, oh, it's my roommate's thing. Crystal's like, I don't know if the roommate thing is a sufficient answer for me.

Yeah. But she's like, she's like, whatever. I'm having a great first date. I too am 22 years old. She goes into Bam's room and Bam's room is like a totally normal boy room. Okay. So like clothes on the ground. They're just like cups everywhere. Yeah.

She notices that he's like still carrying like the extra fast food burger that they got at the drive-thru. And she's like, oh, are you going to put that in the fridge? And he's like, no, it's like got a combination lock. It's a whole thing. I like I'm not going to do it. This is wild.

This is so, it's such a funny contrast too, because he's living so like normal dude of like, well, just, you know, maybe I'll want it in an hour. I'll leave it on my desk. Sure. But like outside the room is like, you know, this isn't like how people live, right? Right. This is strange. This is also, I love Crystal's beautiful, pure heart to be like, see this and be like,

I'm so charmed by this gentleman or have seen so much worse, but like this still qualifies as terrific first date. Because I think I meant to say this earlier, but like zip tie on the oven combination lock on the fridge. Sorry to quote a Morgan Wallen song. I imagine, but that, that feels like when it starts to be like, Oh, we were having a great first date. Now we're having like an okay first date. Yes. Crystal's kind of like, we,

we close the door we don't see the zip tied sure cabinets and the combination lock fridge and maybe everything's fine and sure enough things are fine they bang great they bam they bam it's like very good for her and she's like stunned she's like our chemistry is just really good like this is all very surprising to have a great first date she goes into bam's little like ensuite bathroom and she texts her friends and she's like am i afraid to let love in

Because I'm like with this guy and it's been such a great date, but his apartment is so weird. Yeah. And her friend's like, weird how? And she's like, I don't know. It's just strange. There's like zip ties everywhere. And her friend is like, I think you should leave. Like, I don't think you should stay overnight in a place filled with zip ties. Like, that's not a good vibe. And Crystal's like, OK, I'm not going to leave, actually, because I like him.

You can like him and you can leave. That's so true. Crystal does not leave. She spends the night. But it's like once she decides to stay over, she realizes that there's like only one pillow. Tough. And so she's like, Bam, there's no pillow for me here. And Bam's like, oh, shit, sorry. And he like goes into the living room and like 15 minutes later, he comes back with like a second pillow.

But it's like flat. And so she sleeps like restlessly tossing and turning. Look, I'm not going to say I've never been this guy. But when you find the air stats surrogate pillow, that's your pillow. Be a gentleman. Wow. Yeah. Let a lady have the bed pillow and you take whatever, like the closet pillow or the couch pillow or the one that's been zip-dyed into the oven. Yeah. In the morning, she wakes up. Bam is gone.

She's like, it's not my first time to wake up in a bed that once had a man in it and now does not. Sure. She's like, but it's weird because it was a great date. And also it's your bed, right? Like, where are you? She's like, huh? He's locked in the refrigerator. He's been zip tied. No, he arrives a little bit later and he's like, oh, you're awake. And he has gotten a coffee and a croissant for her.

Cute. Very cute. And she's like, the good thing about a boy who's not clean is he doesn't care if I eat this croissant in his bed. And so she does. Croissant is like truly bottom five bed food. Yes. It's so crumbly. It's so flaky. It's like croissant soup from a bread bowl. Yeah.

Nature Valley Bar. Nature Valley Bar. That's also so funny because that's what you would expect from like a guy who has the energy of this Bam. It's just like, Bam, brought you a granola and a Celsius. Good morning, Bam. She's like, Bam, thank you for the croissant. Thank you for the coffee. She gets like halfway through her croissant when she sees him reaching for the fast food bag for the extra burger from the night before. And he's like, I like to have my night burger in the morning.

I don't know that this is the first time I've heard that. What? I think. What do you mean this isn't the first time you've heard that? I didn't quite have the vibe of these guys. But he lives in there. I speak that language. It is a mutually intelligible bromance language. I know guys who have been like, yeah, I bring my fast food order home drunk. And then I wake up and I'm like, oh, hey, thanks, drunk me.

here's a room temp burger. Just a burger that feels like the air, but thicker. No. So you would eat this burger? Yes, of course. I wouldn't eat it in front of a first date. Yeah, that's a smart, that's a good decision. I feel like I would be on good behavior in this situation. Crystal is like, bam, you cannot eat a night burger.

And Bam's like, why? And Crystal's like, you can't leave meat out overnight. Like, it's gone bad. Burgers can't be left out at room temperature. And he's like, oh, no shit? And she's like, yeah, no shit. And he's like, wow.

But he does listen to her and he stops eating the night burger. So she's like, okay, whatever. Wow. Never before has I Can Change Him borne more immediate fruit. She's like, why didn't you just put it in the fridge? Like, if you had put it in the fridge, I wouldn't be concerned about your, like, stomach dying. And he's like, yeah, but, like, if I put it in the locked fridge, he might be able to get it out of there anyway. Okay. Now this, you're like, who does Bam live with? Is it a wolf? Yeah.

Yes. Crystal's literally like, is your roommate a fucking werewolf? Like, why can't you leave food out? And at this point, Bam responds like he's on trial. Like he's been like caught in a lie and he's said too much, which does not do much for like convincing people not to ask you follow up questions. It's so funny too, because like if you're a person who has a locked padlocked refrigerator so that he can't get it, you have to.

have to have an explanation prepared. And so Crystal is like, you know what? Now I'm asking questions, right? Like now I've got a lot of questions. So she's like, what's your roommate's name? And Bam's like, Spencer. She's like, okay. And Spencer eats your burgers sometimes. And Bam's like...

sure what do you mean sure and bam's like i can't talk about it and crystal's like why and bam is like listen i really like you and this has been a great first date but he is my best friend i cannot just tell you his shit when we barely know each other it's not fair to him

That's, I think that's like such a wild, because again, normal questions. This wasn't, this wasn't like after one day being like, so do you want kids? Like, this is like, we're not going too far down. Like we're in the physical, like asking questions about the physical space that you're in. Yes.

Yes. He's like, would you still love me if I was a worm? This is like, hey, why does your roommate have an incurable taste for flesh that it's your problem to solve? Yes, exactly. Crystal, however, thinks this is adorable because she's like, I think it's beautiful when men have friends. That's true.

That's this is the wrong response. This is the first time that Crystal has had a response that I'm like, I disagree. I don't know. He comes home with like a dirty shovel and he's covered in blood. And you're just like, where were you? And it's like, I was with the guys, you know, I just can't I can't tell you their secrets. Yes. On their second date, she meets Bam's roommate. His name is Spencer.

He's tall. He's normal. He has soft looking hair. And where are they? They meet at his apartment. And he and Bam are clearly like just the two best friends who have ever existed. Yeah. Like they like immediately are like, let us tell you about how we met. Right. And they're like, they're like, we met at the ping pong table in our dorm. Like we were both high school athletes and we had no outlet for our competitive spirit. And so we played each other at ping pong in the dorm. And then after it was really close and Spencer was like,

together, we could take on everyone here. And Bam was like, yeah. And so they did. They beat everyone in the dorm at doubles ping pong. That's good. That's a nice friendship. Is that enough to create a lifelong friendship? Yes. I've created lifelong friendships over less. Exactly. And ever since they've been intertwined. And at this point, lifelong has only been like three years and one month. Exactly. Yes. Yes.

They watch The Office together. They listen to soft boy music together. They mostly hang out with each other. Okay. By their fourth date, Crystal is well acquainted with this apartment. And at some point, she's like, oh, I need a water, right? And she's like, all these cups in Bam's room seem dirty. Like, I'm going to go get a water from the kitchen. See, now I'm back on board with her instincts. You see a cup...

away from other cups that's a dirty cup exactly so she's like i need a regular cup and so like forgetting where she is she goes to the kitchen to get a cup and the cabinets are zip tied right so she's like bam i need help like i want a cup out of the cabinet and it's zip tied and bam's like okay okay he comes sprinting over he like opens it with a pocket knife he's like i got it

And she's like, this seems like really inefficient. Like, do you ever cut yourself with this knife trying to open your cabinets? And he's like, all the time, man. I knew that was going to be the answer. There's no doubt that the answer was going to be all the time. But that's beautiful to me. That's like, sometimes friendship works. Like, sometimes the price of friendship is the little cut on your hand when you try to get a cup in the night before you zip tie the cabinet shut. Because otherwise, Spencer will, quote, get the cups. Yeah, exactly.

Exactly. And she's like, why do you need these cabinets closed so badly? Like, what is it that Spencer is going to do? My dude is an earthquake. Yes, exactly. And Spencer is like here, right? It's his apartment too. He's here. And Bam and Spencer kind of like look at each other. And Spencer's like, it's my fault. What do you think the confession Spencer has to make is?

I mean, like the only reasonable explanation that I can think of is like intense sleepwalking and like sleep.

That that where he eats and, you know, creates a mess that he never deals with and doesn't realize that he's done. Yes. Great guess. That is exactly correct. Spencer has somnambulism, which is the doctor term for having sleepwalking. And the doctor thought he would just grow out of it, but that he just didn't.

So he wakes up at night, ambles around, eats stuff, moves stuff, breaks things. And he didn't want to move in with Bam because he was embarrassed about it. And Bam was like, no, man, we're brothers. I'll help you. And so their whole apartment is like Spencer's sleep-proofed. God, this is such a...

That's really sweet. But it's also like it also like can't be the solution. Yes. It's like your heart's in the right place, but there has to be a better way to do this. Like this is the solution of a guy who doesn't know it's wrong to eat night burgers. Yes.

And what's funny is Crystal is like, oh, I maybe could have figured that out because like on their third date, she woke up in the middle of the night to Spencer, like rustling and clanging and like cursing at the kitchen and then like beef browning, you know, that smell. Yeah. At like 3 a.m. But she was like, well, that's kind of within the realm of acceptability of behavior for college boys. So yeah, whatever. Like,

I'm coming back from the party and everybody's getting bolognese. Exactly. So she's like, whatever. But the thing is, he's asleep when he's doing these things, which is a problem, right? He like manages to unlock the combination on the fridge. She manages to get the zip ties off and she's like, okay, that explains a lot of stuff, but it doesn't explain like why you don't have rugs.

Like, you could still have rugs. Why is there a plastic cover on the couch? And at this, Spencer blushes. Well, this is because of pissing and shitting. Yes. Spencer is like, this is the worst part. And Bam puts his hand on Spencer's shoulder and is like, you don't have to tell her, man. And Spencer's like, nah, bro, you told me that she's important. If she's important to you, she's important to me.

This is so beautiful. Crystal is like, I would die for these two dumbest boys I have ever met in my life. Like, I love them.

And that Spencer tells her what you already correctly guessed, which is that if he has too much to drink, if there's stuff in his bladder, he gets up and in his sleepwalking, he tries to pee in the wrong places. And this is embarrassing and he feels really bad about it. And I understand that feeling. Yeah. And Crystal is like, oh, no, Spencer. Like, I'm so sorry. Like, I didn't I called you a werewolf. And you're like, clearly.

struggling. Like, I didn't mean to do that. And Spencer's like, it's okay, man. Like, don't worry about it. How are you feeling at this point? I feel very satisfied with their explanation. Their solution seems completely in line with what I know about these people who like to solve problems, right? Want burger in morning, eat night burger. Yeah.

Spencer doesn't have control of his faculties when he sleeps, so we lock everything down. So it all seems very reasonable. Yeah, it all seems very understandable. It's not reasonable, yeah. No, it's not reasonable. It's ridiculous. But it feels like

of a piece. Yeah. These guys are cohesive. Yeah. I do want to note something here, which is that you can take medications for sodomy and realism. Right. Like low doses of antidepressants prescribed by your doctor, benzos. Spencer has these prescriptions. Yeah.

And like this can be controlled if he takes his drugs and doesn't drink any liquids for several hours before bed. But because he is a 22 year old boy, he does not take the pills consistently and he always drinks before bed. And so he's convinced that they don't work.

Oh, that's that. See, there it is. That's the rub. And that's where it's like they have this beautiful friendship that transcends piss and shit and cuts on the hands from the box. The box cutter you have to use to get a cup. But and even it transcends sex.

problem solving yes yes so they've just like kind of adjusted this to this life for themselves which is beautiful in a way right like they have zip ties and duct tape and those things are waterproof so i guess whatever yeah after their fifth date bam asks crystal to be his girlfriend

I'm rooting for Bam and Crystal at this point. She says yes. She's like, of course, I really like you, Bam. But being Bam's girlfriend is kind of like having a misbehaved dog. She's like, I love you and Spencer so much, but you both have a brain disease that makes you be like, I wonder what would happen if we did this. And then you just do it without thinking of consequences. So once Bam tackled Spencer into a pile of garbage bags...

And then they both had to get tetanus shots. And when asked why he did this, he said, I thought it would be funny. This is, you have to understand, that's not something I would do. However, I was just hanging out with a friend that I've known since I was four years old. And we were talking about another friend who I've known since I was seven years old. And they went to see the band NoFX on their final tour recently. And they were a little stoned. And my friend saw, like they started, they like,

launch into a song. Yeah. And my friend looks at the mosh pit and goes, I feel like I got to defend something. And it just runs into the mosh pit. Oh, no.

So like it's still in there. It's in there somewhere. The bro never dies. You just like you just put him to sleep and hope he doesn't sleep long. Yes. And the funniest thing about the way that Spencer and Bam are together is that Bam when he has like more than two beers gets like a Cheshire cat grin. Right. Like everyone's like Bam's drunk. Like look at him. He looks so happy.

spencer never seems drunk like he can be three sheets to the wind and he just seems totally normal so like one time they went bowling smashed on fireball shots and spencer was just like casually bowling strikes just like absolutely hammered while bam was like yelling and dancing with grandmas right the seasons change a few months go by crystal and bam tell each other they love each other

She comes to appreciate Spencer. She's like, he's sweet. He's affable. He's shy. Like, I hate that he's so self-conscious about the sleepwalking thing. Right. Like he's so down on himself and she's like, everyone loves him. Everyone wants him to overcome this. And she's like, selfishly, I would really like if Spencer had a girlfriend because then I would have someone to like talk to while the two of you are tackling each other into. Sure. Sure. Sure. Right. Well, you're well, you're like seeing who can let each other slap him in the face the hardest. Yes.

Exactly. So she's like, Spencer, do you want to date any of my friends? But Spencer is like a cliche superhero. He's like, I can't. I can't date anyone. I can't let anyone close. Like, for their own sake. I have to protect others. Okay, Batman. Yeah, exactly. But then one day, Crystal comes into the apartment and Bam and Spencer are arguing. This never happens. So she's like, what is going on here? She's like, what's up, boys? What's up?

And Bam's like, oh, nothing. Just Natalie is having a party. And Crystal's like, who's Natalie? Natalie is Spencer's high school crush. She knows how to longboard. She's trilingual. She understands pass interference in football. And she has personally invited him to this party. Do they go to college together? And Natalie's also there? Okay. And Spencer is still like, no, she doesn't want me there. Like, she just asked me to be nice.

And Crystal is like, I don't really believe that. And Bam is like, can you show Crystal the text? And so Spencer shows her the text. And the text is like, hey, with like eight Ys. Cannot believe we see so little of each other. I'm having a totally chill party on Saturday. Would love it if you came. Bring Bam. Bring whoever. I'd love to see you. So this is smart. I think it's sincere.

I mean, it all seems sincere. But to say bring Bam is like she knows how to get Spencer to go somewhere. He needs his emotional support, Bam. Yes. And Spencer to Crystal is like, this is a form text. And Crystal's like, oh, it just is. Everyone that she's inviting to this party has a roommate named Bam. Yeah.

He's like, oh, are you going to bring is Bam H going to be there? Exactly. And Spencer's like, maybe she just wants Bam there. And Crystal's like, I really don't think so. Like, I think she wants you there all week. They're trying to convince Spencer to go to this party. They're like, come on, man. Like, you can do it. Just like love yourself enough to be open. That's so beautiful. Bam is like Spencer's my best friend.

I want him to go see his crush and find love. How do you convince Spencer to go to this party? What's your move here? I think Bam and Crystal are like, we'd really like to go to this party, but we'd like it if you came with us. It would be more fun if you were there too, because you know Natalie better than us. But like, we would really like to go to a party tonight. That's what seems like a really reasonable thing to do. What Bam does is go, I dare you to go. Yeah.

And this is enough. At Rims. Yeah, that checks out. Because they love dares. So the three of them go to the party. Dude, you won't. Yeah, exactly. There was a kid I went to high school with who just walked through the halls just pointing at people like, you won't, kid. It was never the referent of what you won't do was never declared. You won't. Wow. He would just say it all day long. Okay. Are you ready to go to this party? Yeah. Yeah.

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Natalie's apartment is like all the way across campus. So it's like a two mile walk. Okay. Bam is like hyping Spencer up the whole time, right? He's like, you're gonna be the hottest one there. She's gonna love you. Maybe you'll kiss. Maybe you'll fall in love. Maybe you'll spend the night. And Spencer is like, no, we're not gonna try and stay the night there or kiss her or anything like that. And Bam's like, maybe you will. Maybe you might. They get to the party. Natalie comes straight to Spencer and gives him a big hug.

So they're like, it seems like she likes you. Spencer's like, no, she doesn't. Spencer, he's closing his heart to possibility. Yeah. And I feel an ache for him, a pain. Mm-hmm.

The main event at this party is beer pong, which obviously Bam and Spencer love. So they have to wait like a long time to get their turn because you have to wait for like people to lose. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it sounds like they're well-versed in all the ping pong arts, right? If there's a ping pong ball, these guys will take you on, right? If it's like ping pong, beer pong, ping pong ball eating competition. Yeah, they would win 100%. Around 10, Crystal gets a text from her roommate who's at some club where everyone is dancing.

And she's like, I'm just standing at this party watching Bam and Spencer wait to play beer pong. So she's like, Bam, do you care if I like bounce for a bit and go to a club with my friend? And Bam's like, of course not. Have fun. And she's like, you're good here. And Bam's like, yeah, we're totally good. Now there's no adult.

Yes. It's like they're free. There's no one to corral. There's no Bam and Spencer whisperer. Yes. I feel like Bam and Spencer have been alone together a lot for many years. So like they'll live, but it's like who knows what they're going to do. Right. Yeah. Right. I mean, this is like anything at a college party.

Unless you come from great tragedy and heartbreak, when you're at a party like this, you're like, well, as long as I'm within the confines of the party, I will never die. Yes. Crystal is like, I'm going to the club. Bye. She goes to the club. She dances. She does a few shots. She's having a blast. She does not look at her phone. Around 2 a.m., she's like, I'm done dancing. Good time to finish. Yeah. Yeah. She goes outside. She looks at her phone. She has 15 texts from Bam.

That's a lot. And that's like an ongoing situation, right? If there's like one burst of scare, it's like five texts max. And then that's four. But this is like, hey, would love to hear from you. You know what I mean? Like just follow it up. Yes. Like if I walked out of a movie and had 15 texts from anyone that wasn't in a group chat, I would be like, oh, no. Right? Yep. Here are the texts.

105. Miss you. Sweet. 107. Going great. Natalie talking to Spencer. Eyes emoji. They're on fire. 110. We won again. 115. We won again in all caps. Okay. Now we're starting to get troubling because now you picture the smile. You're like, even if you're winning, it's not pitching a shutout, right? So they've been drinking some beers as they're getting ponged.

At 116, she gets two text messages. One of them says, OMG, Natalie making eyes at Spencer. The second says, uh-oh. That sounds like Spencer has unhinged his jaw and swallowed Natalie whole. At 117, in all caps, is a text that says, Spencer left. Uh-oh.

Then there is a 15 minute break at 134. She gets a text that says, wow, I cannot run anymore.

That's such a funny text to get from someone you were not aware was running. Yes. That sounds like what you say, like, 30 seconds before the Terminator catches and murders you. Yes. At 1.45, there are two messages. So 10 minutes after, wow, I can't run anymore, she gets, JK, I'm good at running again. And was just tired or something. Yeah.

This guy rules. At 146, she gets two more messages. The first, you are not going to believe this shit. The second, I'm laughing so hard I'm going to die. At 148, she gets, uh-oh. At 149, she gets, help. Wow. At 150, she gets, Spencer is lost in all caps. Call me when you get this.

All of these texts are from within 45 minutes of each other. Yeah. The whole range of human emotion. Yes. There are also texts on Crystal's phone from an unknown number. Okay. And there are two of those. And the first text says, hey, this is Natalie. The second text says, Bam said to text you for help. What?

If you're Crystal and the last text that she's gotten is only 10 minutes before she's seeing this, right? So she's like, I'm not that out of the loop. What do you do if you're Crystal here? Call him. Yeah, she calls him. It goes straight to voicemail. She's like, this is not surprising. Bam's phone is always dead, but it is concerning. Right. So she calls Natalie, right? Because she's like, Natalie is in my phone now, I guess. So she calls Natalie and she's like, hey, it's Crystal. Right.

I called Bam's phone, but I think it's dead. Like, can you put him on? And Natalie's like, oh, he's not here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He took Spencer home. Yeah.

She's like, Spencer had an asthma attack. And Crystal's like, oh, my God, I didn't know that Spencer had asthma. And Natalie's like, yeah, I really hope he's OK. Like, can you let me know if he is when you find out? And Crystal's like, yeah, of course. Crystal is like, all right, well, now I'm not going home. Now I'm going to bam at Spencer's because I want to know what's going on here. She goes over there. She lets herself in. She's a key. They're both in beds asleep.

Oh, she goes into Bam's bed and she's like, hi. And Bam's like, oh, hi. I'm so glad you're here. And she's like, is Spencer OK? And Bam's like, oh, yeah, he's drunk as shit. But I put him in a sleeping bag like he's going to bed. And she's like, what happened tonight? And he's like, I'll tell you in the morning. And she's like, OK, they go to sleep. They wake up at noon.

Sure. Bam makes coffee. They're drinking it when Spencer comes out of his room and he's like kind of holding his head and he's like, oh, my God, I'm so embarrassed. I can't believe I blew like my chance with this girl that I had a crush on for ages. And Bam's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like, what are you talking about?

And Spencer's like, Natalie texted me. And she said, and he reads it off his phone, how are you? Are you okay? Do you need anything? I'm worried. And Spencer's like, I'm so embarrassed. Like, what did I do? Did I fall asleep there? Like, was I bad? Like, did I sleepwalk everywhere and eat all her food? And Bam is like, do you not remember last night? And Spencer's like, my dude, not at all. And Bam's like, oh, my God. And he's like, clearly thrilled. He's like, I mean...

You should be embarrassed, probably, but not for the reason you think. Wow. Well, first of all, we were crushing it, beer pong. I hate how mind-melded you are because he begins to proceed to tell both Spencer and Crystal what happened the night before. And he's like, Crystal, after you left, we got on to beer pong. We played six rounds. We won all six. Bam and Spencer high five. This is a relevant part of the story. He's like, we lost one round. That was devastating. Spencer goes, no.

The stakes have never been higher. Crystal's like, I don't care about this punk. Like, keep going. He's like, after the loss, we got kicked off the team. Spencer has to know. He has to know he was a legend. Yes. Bam's like, but then when we weren't playing beer pong anymore, Spencer could talk to Natalie.

And I was like, oh, that's great. I was like, Spencer, you should go talk to her. Like, you should ask her if you could stay the night. And Spencer was like, why would I do that? And Bam was like, well, we don't want to walk all the way back to our place drunk. That's a perfect excuse. And Spencer's like, but you know, I can't spend the night. And Bam's like, I would have your back. Spencer at this point had been nervously drinking for hours. So he's like, I just want to go home, right? Like, Natalie is beginning to flirt with me. I am scared. And he leaves.

This is the first time when Bam texted Spencer's gone. Bam waits because he's like, Spencer, I'll be back. But like 15 minutes later, Spencer is not back. And so Bam is like, ah, shit. And so he goes after him and he jogs and he is so tired. And at this point, he stops to text Crystal and is like, I'm so bad at running. Yep. Then he catches up with Spencer. Which is so funny.

And Spencer is like, why are you running? And Bam's like, you have to believe in yourself, man. You have to believe in love. Like you have to give yourself a shot. And Spencer is like, I love you and I'm obsessed with you. But like, I'm too scared. And Spencer, I think at this point, tonight's not the night. He's too drunk. He's in his head. It's not happening. And yeah, it's not going to happen. And he's I don't think he would have a nice time if he went back and tried to talk to her.

Bam, at this point, has his Cheshire cat smile on and he's like, I know how to fix this. And in mischief mode, he's like, I dare you to ask her out. And Spencer's like, no, no, I'm not doing a dare about this. It's too much. You're Bam. Your dare usually works. It has not worked this time. What else could you do? You want to go back to the party and you want Spencer to go talk to Natalie.

You could physically drag him. Yeah, that is an option. Okay. It doesn't feel out of the question for these guys. You could ask him. You could be like, bro, this means the world to me as a bro, bro to bro. Or you could reach out to Natalie and try to get her to help ensnare Spencer to go back to the party. All great options. What Bam does is he goes...

I'll race you back to the house. If I get there first, I'm telling her that you want to go on a date with her. Good. This is better than my options. Spencer considers this for a moment, and then he takes off back toward the house at a full sprint. This surprises Bam. Bam loves it. He bolts off after him. They're now in a race. We've got a foot race back to the house.

Bam eats shit on some stairs at the campus. And so he loses a bunch of time. Yeah. Spencer is beelining for the party. He has no plan. The only thought in his drunken brain is that he has to get to Natalie first so that Bam won't tell her that he has a crush on her. He's running. He pulls ahead. He bursts through the door like Kramer and Seinfeld are like the fucking Kool-Aid man. Bam is like coming up behind him. But by the time Bam gets there,

Everyone in the party is silently staring at Spencer, including Natalie. Who's just like... Yes. Katy Perry's California Girls is playing at full volume. And he's not very California Girls right now. No. Bam at this point texts Crystal that actually he can run after all. Which is good. Yeah. How would you play this? You've burst into the apartment at full speed.

Your crush is there. You only now realize that you had no plan for once you arrive. Well, I think I would be like, I went to get some air. Bam bet me he could get back to the bam found me and bet me he could race him back to the party. Don't tell the other stuff because you don't have to tell the other stuff.

What Spencer does is have an asthma attack. Except the thing is, Spencer does not have asthma. Yeah. So everyone is like, is this poor idiot going to die in our apartment? Right? Like they're like, he can't breathe. Someone help him. Natalie is so concerned. She like runs over. She's like, bam, what's wrong with him? And Bam's like, I don't know. Like, I don't know what's going on here. And Spencer, like trying for the Emmy, uses a raspy voice to be like, asthma.

I think I've got the black lung, pops. Bam is like losing his mind. He's like, Spencer does not have asthma. As he's telling this in the kitchen the next morning, Spencer is just going, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. This is the only time in this part of the story that I think Bam has made a mistake because it's like you've got to confirm your bro's alibi. Oh, and he does. Bam is a fucking thespian and he's like, oh, no, he's having an asthma attack. Ha, ha, ha.

He's like, Natalie, text my girlfriend. Hurry. This is her. Wow. Oh, wow. OK. Bring his inhaler. There is no inhaler. Meanwhile, Bam is like, you got to get it together, man. Like you got to sit down and you got to breathe slow. So Spencer does this. He sits down. Some nursing major like brings him coffee. It is like they say caffeine can help in an asthma attack. And Spencer and Bam, they don't know if this is true or not. So Spencer just like drinks the coffee anyway. Sure.

Right. They don't know. They don't know how to solve this fake problem. They're just like, I heard you going to let someone kick you in the throat. I guess that's what we're doing now. I don't know otherwise. So after he's drunk the coffee and they've decided that it's been a sufficient amount of time, they're like, we've got it under control. We've managed his attack.

And Natalie's like, oh my god, I'm so glad. Like, I was so worried. Like, I don't think you guys should walk back. Like, he just had an asthma attack. I really think you should stay the night. Bam is elated by this. Spencer is mortified. And he bolts. Laughter

Oh, that's good. At this point, Bam is laughing so hard he can't breathe. And everyone is like, you need to go get your friend. Like, he was just having an asthma attack and now he's running. And Bam's like, you're so right. So Bam chases him home. That's great. This is like what it would have been like to date Travis Kelsey while he was in college.

Yes. It's just, but he has that, like when people talk about his like, kind of like exuberant puppy dog energy, it's like, this is what that looks like until you focus it into like, you have to like have car insurance and stuff. We are almost at the very end. How do you feel? Whose side are you on?

I feel like everybody's doing their best here. But I think Crystal knows what she's in for. I don't think she was wrong to leave. She wasn't having a good time at the party. Yeah. Was having a better time dancing. Yeah. I...

I think Bam, his heart was in the right place, but he was misguided to try to trick Spencer into flirting back with Natalie hammered. Also after forcing him to sprint, right? After forcing him to sprint. Spencer was, he made the mistake of lying about the asthma attack, but I feel like this is

50 50 a lie that you can explain away and just be like I was so drunk and embarrassed I said this because I was like huffing and puffing and race bam and then you parlay it into because blah blah blah yeah that's that's the gambit that I would attempt if I was 22 and that what I think would have worked

Spencer is like smacking himself in the head because he's like, I fucked this so bad. Like I pretended to have asthma. I never made a move. I don't remember any of this at all. And it sounds hilarious. This is like drinking blue Gatorade when there's a lemon lime right there. Exactly. And Crystal is like, I don't,

really think you fucked it up that bad because I talked to Natalie on the phone last night and they're both like what and she's like yeah bam your phone was dead so I called Natalie to make sure you weren't both dead and I was like worried and Natalie was really worried about you like she seemed to really care Crystal's like so I think if you play this right this could be great for you

And so she helps him craft a text to like ask Natalie to get coffee, right? Like very low stakes. And he and Natalie went to get coffee and they did end up dating and they dated for eight months. And the whole time Spencer pretended to have asthma. Oh, no, you can't. You can't.

You can't keep the... You've got to ditch the lie because it's not a cute lie. It's not like, oh, yeah, I said my favorite movie was your favorite movie, so we go to that movie together. This is like, you're scared for my life every time I go. And...

And that's that's to the stakes of the lie are too high. Yeah, they broke up not because of the lie, just because it wasn't like it was good for eight months and then it wasn't. But during that time, Natalie like gave him some self-confidence. Right. Because Spencer was like, oh, I like dated this really cute girl that I had a crush on for a long time and it didn't work out. But like that means that I like am at least kind of cute. Right. Mm hmm.

And this helped because once he had a little self-confidence in himself, he started taking his medication and he turned into a brunch boy so that he could stop drinking before bed. Yeah.

Wow. This is like a, this would make a beautiful children's book for 19 year olds, like a picture book for 19 year olds. Yeah. And that is beautiful to me. Do you have any final thoughts on this story? You know, I hope they all continue to grow and learn and, and look within. Yeah. And I think their friendships are so beautiful. Yeah. And I'm like, I'm really, I'm happy that Spencer, Spencer,

gave himself the gift of believing in himself with the help of his friends. Yeah. I think this is so nice. Yeah. I'm really upset to have learned that you would eat a night burger, but otherwise I had a great time. I mean, I'm about to be on the road for three nights in Denver and it's like, it is all bets are off. It's night burger hours. Yeah. I mean, even if I had an unpadlocked

refrigerator, a refrigerated burger tastes worse than a room temp burger. This is so upsetting. I hate this. It's not a goal. It's not a goal to eat a night burger. I'm just saying I would eat a night burger still. Josh, thank you so much for coming on the show. It was a pleasure to have you. Thank you for having me. It was such a joy to get to Gabby Chat. Thank you.

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