Chapters
Shownotes Transcript
Before we get going today, I wanted to tell you about another Radiotopia podcast you should be listening to, Song Exploder. Song Exploder is an award-winning show about the creative process behind music. Artists break down one of their songs, letting you hear all the different layers in the recording, from instruments to beats to vocals. And most importantly, they talk about why they made the creative choices they did. Song Exploder is not just for music nerds. It's for anybody who cares about creativity or wants to feel inspired to create something.
It's hosted by Rishi Keshe Hiraway, who you might know from the podcast Home Cooking or the West Wing Weekly. The episodes are short, about 20 minutes each, and my recommendation is to start with an episode featuring an artist you love. And then listen to one with an artist you don't know at all. There are over 250 episodes with guests like Fleetwood Mac, Madonna, Solange, Beats,
Billy Eilish, Phoebe Bridgers, FK Twigs, The Killers, Dua Lipa, and John Batiste, and more. Each episode is really a miniature portrait of an artist and how their creative mind works, with the song as the lens we see them through. It's also a great way to discover new music. It's a different kind of experience to get introduced to a song this way, learning how and why each piece and idea came together before you hear the whole song at the end.
Find your favorite episode of Song Exploder and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts or at songexploder.net. Oh, God, I would be so embarrassed. Oh, no. Oh, God. Oh, God.
Hi, and welcome to Normal Gossip. I'm Kelsey McKinney. In each episode of this podcast, we bring you an anonymous morsel of gossip from the real world. Today, my guest is Brian Park. Brian's a comedian, an actor, and co-host of the Feeling Asian podcast. His comedy has been featured in The New Yorker, CNN, Cosmopolitan, The Wall Street Journal, NPR, Comedy Central, Vulture, and so many other places. Brian, hello. Welcome. Hi. Hello, hello, hello. Hi.
How are you feeling? Gosh, I feel like a douche right now. I mean, I know you pulled that from my website, but I got to cut that down. There's too many media outlets. It doesn't make you just feel exhausted? A bit of both. I'm tired of myself is essentially. Gosh, I got to go into Squarespace right now and change that.
I mean, I can also change it later if you really don't like it, but I'm so glad you're here. Otherwise, I'm doing great. I'm excited to do this and I'm happy to be here. Excellent. Can you just start me off as a basic, like, what is your relationship with gossip like? What is my relationship to gossip like? Oh, man. I love it. I love gossip. But it pains me. It pains me to admit that. It pains me to admit that. Why?
It just goes against the way I was raised, you know? Okay, okay. Tell me more. I know that you also grew up in Texas, correct? Yes. Okay, great. Get into it. Let's go. Right.
So, you know, you have the, even though my parents weren't religious, just by proxy of living in Texas and interacting with my classmates, that Christian guilt is just, you know, through osmosis, I have absorbed that. I'm so sorry. Oh, yeah, I'm still working through it. But my, you know, my parents, they, from a young age, they've always told me, like, you
You don't want to be the loudest can in the room. Like cans are empty. You don't want to be empty headed and you don't want to be loud. And so they always encourage me to just listen well, be humble and, you know, keep information to yourself and don't reveal too much. And now you're a comedian. So I'm a comedian. So I overshare for a living, but yeah,
I have a very fraught relationship with gossip because I love receiving gossip and I'm not very subtle about it. Okay. Because I think gossip is...
For me, it's a relationship accelerator. Like, the moment that you can exchange gossip with, especially with a stranger, to me, that is evidence like, oh, we have something here. This is a great lead. We're going to be friends now. This isn't just a fleeting small talk acquaintance. We're going from acquaintance to friend now. Yes. And...
I ask for it. I'll meet strangers and then very quick I'll be like, so what's the tea? Like, what's going on in your life? Like, even with random people you've never met. Yeah. Does it work? Pretty quickly. What's your success rate? Like, not super success. I would say maybe 50%. That's pretty good, though, if you think about it. 50%. With a stranger. Yeah. It's not bad. Yeah, I love gossip. You know, before going on to this podcast...
I was like, how much am I going to reveal about my relationship with gossip? And now that you put a microphone in front of me and the floodgates have totally opened at this point. I mean, I would even go so far as to say my guilty pleasure is even celebrity gossip. I'll go. I'll go on Reddit. Okay, great. Yeah, I'll go on Reddit. And these people I don't even know anything about. Right.
So what is it, though, that is attracting you to that? When you're reading the celebrity gossip for some C-list celebrity you don't care about, right? You're reading the blind items. Why? What is it that makes you like, I cannot stop clicking through this Dumois story? It serves the same function as television for me, but it's more realistic because, well, for one, it could be some parasocial dynamic that's happening here, but...
This is real life. These are real people. And this is actually happening. That's more entertaining than reality TV itself because there's no producer's hands. Give me a blind item. And that's something that's happened out in the real world. So with your own friends, how do you gossip? Like, do you have a preferred method? Are you a voice memo sender? No, absolutely not. Hate voice notes. I am adamantly against voice notes. Why? Why?
It's just, for one, I don't like the sound of my voice, but two... What? You have a podcast and you're a comedian. Yeah, but it's not... Continue. I'm sorry. Keep going. The enjoyment of my own voice can be mutually exclusive from me doing those things. However...
Uh, the ends. Yeah, just, it's, I don't know. It just seems too clunky and it's not clean. And there's a tendency to go real long. So how do you, how do you gossip? You text? You call? Over phone. Yeah. Don't like to leave. I don't like to leave a paper trail.
So it's smart. We've learned many a lesson on this podcast about why you should not absolutely zero paper trail. So I gossip phone or IRL. Those are the two ways. Yeah. If you leave a paper trail, that's how your gossip ends up like in our inbox. So it's best to not do that. However, you know,
I preach one thing. I'm a total hypocrite. So I preach one thing. But I've learned that administrators can have access to your Slack conversations. Yeah. The other thing. So I learned this during the Gawker Hulk Hogan trials is that the other thing is that Slacks are discoverable. So if you get sued, they can make you read Slacks in court. So if you work on Slack and are not a lawyer, think about that.
Maybe you don't want to put your bullshit with your colleague into the company workplace. Yeah, so this is some sage advice. Leave no paper trail. Don't be like us. Be different. Okay, are you ready to do some gossip? Absolutely. Yeah, let's do it. Let's do it.
You know they say anyone can bake bread but few can rock it. Dave's Killer Bread are champions of killer taste, killer texture, and those who rise above cardboard tasting anything. It's America's number one organic bread for a reason. It tastes so darn good. I like to keep two loaves in my house, one on the counter and one in the freezer. So I'm never without power packed bread with whole grains, fiber, protein, and killer taste and texture.
My favorite is the 21 whole grains and seeds loaf. It has a subtle sweetness and a seed coated crust. It's great for toast sandwiches and even by itself. But excitingly Dave's killer bread also has rolls now rock and rolls. It's a dinner roll done the Dave's way soft and slightly sweet, but packed with seeds and grains. You'll love find them in the bread aisle.
Visit daveskillerbread.com to learn more and look for Dave's Killer Bread in the bread aisle of your local grocery store. Dave's Killer Bread. Bread. Amplified. From the producers of Anything for Selena and the Pulitzer Prize-winning podcast Suave comes My Divo, a podcast about roots. Dive into the legendary life, music, and lasting influence of Latin America's most prolific songwriter and showman, Juan Gabriel El Divo de Juarez.
Today, we are journeying to the bright and beautiful land of Los Angeles. The sun is out, the birds are singing, the radio is playing Top 40, and Lucy has been stuck in bumper-to-bumper traffic on the highway not moving for 30 minutes. Oh!
Lucy has a kind of job that pays well enough that she doesn't have a problem paying rent and she has like enough money to go on vacation. She has the elusive and rare company 401k contribution. She lives in Las Feliz and she rents a nice little house.
Sometimes when she gets coffee, she sees Kristen Stewart or Jon Hamm also getting coffee. This is part of what she loves about Los Angeles. Great. Casual. Exactly. And Lucy is like from she's from like a flyover state. Right. And so she has a kind of job where she could work anywhere in the country. But she chose Los Angeles because she loves Hollywood. Oh, God. I bet Lucy sounds like one of those people who makes those tick tock.
Yes. This is a day in the life of living in Los Angeles. Woke up and did my yoga in Los Feliz and walked over to this intelligentsia, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
All right. The vibe is you've got the vibe. Exactly. Okay. She like loves movies, loves musicals, loves television. But she wasn't like good at any of that stuff and didn't like try to be right. She was like, I just want to be in proximity to it. So she doesn't even do these things. No, she's just like, I love them.
And she's not like the kind of person who would go up to a celebrity at dinner and be like, can I have a selfie? Like she's not that kind of celebrity obsessed. Right. But she's the kind of celebrity obsessed that she's like, I want to be at the restaurant where the celebrities are.
Oh, okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Got it. Got it. So she's flexing in her group chats. Like exactly. You won't believe who was there. Got it. Exactly. So that's what she's supposed to be doing right now while she's in traffic. She's supposed to be in this like cute new bar with her two friends, sipping her like nice orange wine on the lookout for celebrities. This is their like little tradition. I hate this. Why would you make this a tradition? Why do you hate this? Well,
No, it just feels kind of sleazy and gross. Okay. Yeah. By the time she gets to the bar, she's like really frazzled. Right? One of her friends, Kate, is already there. Kate has like already ordered a bottle of wine. Lucy's like, I've been in traffic forever. And Kate's like, yeah, our friend Meg is stuck too. Okay. Right?
So Kate, like, plops out in her seat. She has her, like, little wine. And Lucy, like, points. And so Kate, like, looks very, like, secretly. And there in the corner is, like, an up-and-coming, like, pop star. Ooh. And Kate's like, wow, this bar is paying off in dividends, right? Oh, my God. Like, we're having a great time. Meg arrives. She's, like, not nearly as frazzled as Lucy was, even though she was in traffic the whole time. And so they're like, what the fuck is up with you, right? Like, you should be, like...
Okay. Right.
This podcast is six weeks old, right? But it's coming out weekly. And Meg's little Spidey senses are like, this is going to be huge. And she's like, plus, all the hosts are hot. Classic. Classic. Classic.
Whatever happened to like that old joke of, oh, you have a face for radio. Well, now like you got to have a six pack. So, OK. All right. Right. It's also like I remember. Right. Like I've been in media adjacent circles for long enough to remember when there were like scandals because a podcast host was sleeping with someone that was too hot.
Right. Because it was like, can you believe it? She's going to sleep with a podcast host. And we're not and we're not talking about the daily. No. OK, so Kate and Lucy are like, you know, we're not that into podcasts. We're not that convinced that the hosts are that hot. But they're also like, what's the podcast? Right. Yeah.
Meg's like, okay, I'm going to tell you, but you have to promise to listen despite the name. Wait, okay. And Kate and Lucy are like, okay. And Meg says the podcast is called Movies Are Bad. Okay. I will remind you that we anonymize everything, including the names of podcasts. So you cannot find this, but good luck.
Okay. So our fictionalized name for this podcast is Movies Are Bad. This podcast is hosted by four dudes.
Their names are Harrison, Kellen, Brady, and Dan. So Lucy is like, I don't know that I want to listen to a podcast that's just like four dudes talking about movies. Yeah. And Meg's like, no, no, no, no, no. She's like, I like movies. They're just like really silly. The podcast is really silly. It's fun. They're really smart. And look at their Instagrams. They're really hot. Exactly. So she pulls up their Instagrams and Lucy's like, ah, yes. Okay. I get it.
I'm sold. All the boys are tall, but otherwise they're like all the different versions of men that you could want to be attracted to. The only one Lucy and Kate don't really understand the appeal of is Dan. And this is the one that like Meg thinks is the hottest.
Dan is like shorter than the others, but he has kind of like a Bushwick boy vibe, right? Like he has one of those flat hats that's corduroy. Dangerous. And he wears like button ups that are oversized, but like unbuttoned. Oh, God. He's always wearing like fancy sneakers and he has those like aviator glasses that are gold. And they're just like prescription lenses. Yes. How do you feel about this vibe? How do you feel about where we are right now?
I hate this vibe. I hate it. I hate this vibe. See, Dan is the type of person who thinks they're so much cooler than they actually are and is acutely aware of his coolness, which is antithetical to being cool because cool is effortless.
Don't like Dan. Hate Dan. Okay. I like that you've come in so strong already. You're like, corduroy hat? No. No. Absolutely not. But I could... But I am going to... Disclaimer. I am projecting 100%. It takes one to know one. Yes. Okay. So Lucy's like, you know what? I'll listen to the podcast on the way home. Right? Sure. Sure. I'll appease my close friend. She listens to it on the way home and she's like, you know what? This podcast is kind of...
Right. Like she listens to another episode and she's like crying. She's laughing so hard and she's like, OK, you know, I get it. Fine. The three of them get really into this podcast. This is like several years ago, pre pandemic. OK. And just like everything Meg finds, it becomes very popular. OK. Got it. One day they're all at work like six weeks later. They're like G chatting. Right. Yeah.
Kate G chats them and she's like, you're not going to believe what I found. What she has found is an online community of people who are also obsessed with this podcast. Okay. So they all join it. Great. This is now their like shared hobby. Got it. So they found a subreddit for this podcast. Essentially. Yeah. Okay. Essentially. Right. Essentially. Have you ever done this for like a podcast or a show or anything? Yes, I have.
Which one? Tell me. Yes, I have. I have. Well, tell me what the appeal is, right? Like, I haven't done this before, so I don't know what the appeal of, like, the serious subreddit for a piece of culture is. Like, what are you getting there? Well, I don't go to the subreddit for the podcast hosts. It's a fashion podcast. And so it's a really supportive community where...
other guys will ask for clothing recommendations or places to go, shops to go. So I'll go for that aspect of it. Yeah. That's really cute. I love that. Yeah.
So people are like going in there and being like, does anyone know how to get like shoes that look like this? Right. Yeah. Or like these are all out of stock. Like, you know, I'm thinking about these like what how does sizing work on this? That's so nice. I love that. Okay. So it starts out the way that all fandom stuff starts, right? They're just sharing videos and posts. Everyone's having a good time. But the fandom is growing like larger every single day. Hmm.
And our girls are like, you know, this is kind of weird. Like, there's so many people in here. Oh, God. And we're having fun still, but, like, it's a little overwhelming. And one day Meg, like, posts one of Dan's Instagram posts into the, like, forum. And it's, like, a pretty thirsty photo. And she, like, makes a little comment about it. And, like, some people are a little weird about it. But a random person in the forum DMs her and is like, hey, thanks.
There's a side group within this faction of people who are doing what true fans do. They are writing fan fiction. Oh, whoa. Wow. That what a wow. Fan fiction for podcast hosts. How does that make you feel? It makes me feel stressed. I don't like that. But also aim higher. I don't know.
I think that's the thing that I like love about this story, though, is that it's like there's someone for everyone, you know, it's like, right, just obsessed with this, like, random podcast. It's beautiful, but scary. Also, you don't need to resort to fan fiction. Like, I'm sure you could just plop over to the infatuation, type in top five restaurants in Bushwick, and you can meet this person in real life.
Okay, hold on. This is not just fan fiction. This is like sexy fan fiction, right? We're talking like romance fan fiction, fan fiction where the members of this movie podcast are the hunks. And they the members of the community are the love interests, right? Fan fiction where the hosts are knight in shining armor, and they are the ones in distress. Right, right. Like lovers to enemy plot lines everywhere, right? Wow. Okay. Okay.
Meg immediately is like, this is funny. This rules. I'm dragging Lucy and Kate in here with me. Oh, no. And Lucy and Kate are like, okay, fine. Right. And so they're like reading this like fan fiction. They're like doing all these narratives right about the four like boys.
And there's like something stupidly illicit, right? As we've said about doing this for podcast hosts. Yeah. Where it's like this isn't some hunk in Hollywood. It's just a dude, right? And fan fiction, I mean, it seems incredibly time consuming. Yes. Like you have to sit there and imagine these intricate storylines. Yes. And then actually write it.
It's a very creative endeavor to write fanfiction, and it seems very hard to me. As someone whose job it is to write stories, it seems like a lot of effort to write fanfiction. Oh, it sounds the most difficult. But, however, I am a bit envious of their friendship. How you can, you know, zero judgment. Wow. Look at this forum or this subreddit for...
For people who are horny for the movies or bad boys. Exactly. And their friends are like, I love it too. I'm down. This is great. Like if I were ever involved with something like that, that shit is going with me to the grave and I'm never telling my friends. Yeah. I feel the same way, but I think that's because you and I have some shame to work through that these girls do not. Okay. So they all love it.
Right? They love it on the level of they're like, it's funny, we can do it together. Right? They're like writing these fanfics together. They're like writing fanfics where they like each pair off with one member and live like happily ever after. But Lucy's like dating both Kellen and Brady who are kind of interchangeable anyway. Right? Oh my god. This is wild. Yeah.
Yes, it's gonna get wilder. Meg is like only interested in Dan, right? She has been like laser focused on Dan since day one. So she's like writing just dozens of fan fictions about Dan. Okay. And Lucy and Kate are like, great. They like edit her posts about Dan before they go up. They're having fun, right? Sure, sure, sure.
The podcast has a like one year birthday party. They all go. They have so much fun. They do shots. They were like giggling, like pointing, you know, they're like being fans. Right. A real, a real one year birthday party. A real one year birthday party. Okay. Got it. No, they go to like an actual party where the hosts are and like watch them do a live podcast. Right. And they're like,
Wow. So cute. Yeah, they're fanfics. Within a year of since its origination, they have a dedicated following, a subreddit of a subreddit fanfiction. Yes, yes.
Wow. These guys are on a rocket ship to the moon. I mean, honestly, right. These guys can write a book about growth market hacking because this is... Fuck, I need this for my podcast. Okay. So they all, like, after the party, they, like, go back to Lucy's house because they're all, like, tipsy and they're like, let's write a fan fiction, right? And they, like, write a fan fiction about the party where, like, they're all helping Dan find his lost jacket, right? And they're like, this is so fun. We're having so much fun. This is...
I feel so mean right now. I'm like, this is so sad. Like, why can't you just veg out and chill after a party? They are chilling. This is how they're chilling. The after party is to write more fan fiction about Dan? They love Dan. I'm sorry. Gosh, I'm so mean. I'm sorry.
You know, we do ads for Rocket Money pretty consistently every month. You would think by now I would have canceled every subscription that I don't use. But guess what? I haven't. Rocket Money reminded me recently that I was subscribed to something I didn't even know I was subscribed to. But it's because it was like an annual subscription. I unsubscribed. And by I, I mean Rocket Money unsubscribed for me. Alex, is this relatable to you?
It is so relatable to me. I would like never check my bank account unless I really, really have to because it gives me so much anxiety. And is there a reason that you check your bank account now? Yeah, I get these awesome emails from Rocket Money that are like, hey, FYI, this is how much you spent last week. And it feels like a gentle person holding my hand as I go to my bank account. Oh, yeah.
Rocket Money is a personal finance app that finds and cancels your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so that you can grow your savings. They also send you beautiful emails that tell you what your bank balance is, which we love. Thanks, Rocket Money. Rocket Money has over 5 million users and has saved a total of $500 million in canceled subscriptions, saving members up to $740 a year when using all of the app's features.
Stop wasting money on things you don't use. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions by going to rocketmoney.com slash gossip. That's rocketmoney.com slash gossip. Rocketmoney.com slash gossip. Oh my God, Alex, remember the week that you moved to a completely different state and then also at the same time we had a company retreat that was in New York City? Yeah.
That was not my strongest planning moment in my entire life. Well, it's a hard moment to plan for because you're like living in four different places, basically. One thing that I did plan really well, though, was that I ordered a factor box for the day after I came back from New York. What's a factor box?
So Factor does no prep, no mess meals. And they can come in different options like Calorie Smart, Protein Plus, and Keto. We love protein. We sure do. We're swole girls. Gains, baby. The meals are fresh and never frozen. And there's also like no prep time. What? You just put it straight into the microwave. It's great. So it's like no chopping. Yeah, two minutes.
Two minutes and you're good. With 35 different meals and more than 60 add-ons to choose from every week, you'll always have new flavors to explore. Crush your wellness goals this summer with dietitian-approved meals and ingredients you can trust.
Enjoy effortless support for your lifestyle. Choose from six menu preferences to help you manage calories, maximize protein intake, avoid meat, or simply eat well-balanced. Head to factormeals.com slash normalgossip50 and use code normalgossip50 to get 50% off your first box plus 20% off your next month.
That's code NORMALGOSSIP50 at factormeals.com slash NORMALGOSSIP50 to get 50% off your first box plus 20% off your next month while your subscription is active. So this goes on for months. Months? Months. In the meantime, the platform they were on where they were doing this kind of writing kicks them off.
Okay. The platform is like, this is not for sexy fan fiction. You cannot be here anymore. Oh, God. So they're kicked off. Everyone is like sad. And because like this community has been going for a while, they all know each other the way that like online communities become like more and more enmeshed. Right. Lucy and Kate are kind of like, you know, we've been doing this for a little while. It's been like a fun hobby that's entertained us. But like,
Maybe it's time for us to be done, right? Meg is like, no, I'm not done. And so she and another of the diehard fans that they know from the fanfic community create another private online community for the fanfic writers. Wow. And she invites her friends. Meg invites Lucy and Kate to do it with her. Right. What do you think Lucy and Kate should do? I mean, I think Lucy and Kate should have an intervention for Meg.
And just be like, look, we support you, but I don't know if this is a great idea. This seems like a huge time suck. Your peers that you started with at the tech company have all gotten promoted. I think it's time to reprioritize here. What is it about this that makes you feel like it needs an intervention? Like, I don't disagree with you. I'm just curious.
I think... For one, it's just so much... Like, you get kicked out of a community for, you know, breaking their guidelines and their rules. Yes. And that's a roadblock that gives you time to be introspective and, you know...
touch base with yourself and things. Not if you go 60 miles an hour through the roadblock, then you don't have to check in. Right, right. But, you know, I commend Meg, though. She's leaning in. She knows what she wants. Leaning right into all my fanfic community. She's leaning in. Doubling down. I like that kind of commitment. But, yeah, I don't know. I just think that it's... That's... I'm trying... Okay, I need to be empathetic here. Like...
It's just so far removed. It's so far removed for me that, you know, to get kicked off of a fan fiction for being too sexy about writing about podcast hosts. Like, inherently, I'm like, you need a wake-up call and just kind of think, like...
I don't know. Like, I've seen, I've watched porn and then after I finish and it's still on, like, there is some residual, like, I don't know if I should have done. Like, that probably wasn't the best use of my time. But this sounds like that, you know, on steroids. But it takes way longer. And then over the course of months. Yes. Of months.
I mean, why don't you just try to go on a, like, slide in their DMs and go out with them? Okay, please hold. Okay. We're going right back in. Are you ready? Okay, Lucy and Kate are like, you know, we're not really passionate about this anymore, but if you want us there, we'll come. And Meg's like, thank you. Oh, wow. Such support. Wow, I need new friends. So supportive. They're, like, there in the way that it's, like...
They have accounts, but they're not like posting anymore. Right. It's like, I'm going to go to your improv show and say you were great, but I'm only going one time. Once. Exactly. And Lucy kind of starts to like lose touch with this because she's like busy with work. And she's also like, I was never really that into any of these guys anyway. This was just like a funny thing I was doing. Right. Okay. So Lucy and Kate are like drifting away. Yeah.
The three of them have drinks like a month or two after they get kicked off of this platform the first time. And Kate and Lucy arrive first before Meg gets there. She's like stuck in traffic again or something. And Kate is like, oh, my God, have you been reading Meg's fan fiction?
And Lucy's like, no, I've been working. Why? Oh, no. And Kate is like, it's just getting like really specific. Like she's clearly built up this whole world around Dan. And like she's so into movies now. And she like won't stop texting me about like their podcast. And Lucy's like, oh, this is that's a lot. And Kate's like, yeah, I'm like.
starting to feel a little weird about it because these people are like not that famous. Right. And Lucy's like, honestly, I still don't know the difference between Kellen and Brady. And Kate's like laughing so hard that the like fizzy wine she took a sit up of is threatening to like come out of her nose. Right. She's her napkin over her face. Lucy's like sipping her own wine smirking. She's like so satisfied. Right. This is when Meg arrives.
Meg sits down and immediately begins talking about the podcast. Oh, God. What do you do? I would just have a frank conversation with Meg and be like, hey, what is it about this podcast that you love so much? Like, do you want to have sex with Dan? Dan? Because if you do...
then send a DM and let's make it happen. No more... Like, you need... Yeah, you have work to do. Yeah. Or, like, other hobbies, right? Like...
Right, right, right. I like how in my reality, I'm like, no, clearly no other hobbies, but this is... Yeah, clearly work. Yeah, and I'm also, it makes me a little bit, it's just, I mean, this is exploring parasocial dynamics here. Yes, exactly. Now I'm like, if Dan were to ever come across this...
It would be so... I don't know. I mean, maybe he'd be flattered, but it's also very creepy. Yes. I don't know the nature of these stories, though. They're very sexy. That's the nature of them. Okay. Okay.
Kate and Lucy are like, Meg, babe, we love you. We like the podcast. You have to talk about something else. Okay. They're like, you're making us crazy. And Meg's like, oh, okay. Right. And they're like, dude, if you want to date Dan, that's a conversation we can have. Right. We are losing interest. Right.
Right. Right. Okay. And Meg's like, oh, my God. Okay. I'm so sorry. I didn't realize that, like, our interest levels were different and that, like, you guys don't want to talk about this. And she's like, okay, like, let's talk about something else. What's going on at work with you? Right. Like, what's going on with this? Right. And so they're, like, learning about Lucy's terrible work. They're learning about Kate's awful patience. Right. They order another bottle of wine. They order mozzarella sticks. Things are going great. Yeah.
Love it. Meg is in the middle of telling them about how her work enemy made a huge mistake at work and their boss is like furious when she stops talking mid-sentence. Oh. She puts her wine glass back down on the table very carefully. Her eyes are like focused squarely on Lucy across from her.
Kate's like, what's going on? Lucy's like, why are you looking at me like that? Meg is like, one of you talk look normal. Oh, no. And Kate's like, okay, we're talking. Ha ha ha. You know, Kate's like, Meg, here's a question for you that we could talk about. Why are you acting so fucking weird? Lucy's like laughing. Meg picks up her wine glass and like she's holding it with three fingers. Right. And with her pinky finger, she points behind Kate's head.
And Lucy like laughs. Kate spots whatever it is and then looks immediately at Megan is like, oh, my God.
across from her is like, what? What? They're both like, look, but be subtle. Which, by the way, never works. No. Lucy does that thing where you pretend to crack your back, right? Where you like crack one side. That thing we all do at least six times a day. Uh-huh, yeah. And then she rotates to the other side and there, by the bar, is Dan.
Ooh, you can spot those gold prescription aviator glasses illuminating the room from a mile away. Just the way the light is reflecting off of the lens.
He's there with three other guys from the podcast. He's wearing like fancy jeans, fancy high top sneakers. He has a few new like stick and poke tattoos, right? Lucy like whips back around. The three of them are like howling with laughter, right? They're like, this is the most fun we've had in ages, right? They're like doing bits. They're being so silly. They're like imagining scenarios in which one of them would go up to him, right? They're like playing out a scenario in which like they just shove things
one of them into him right like they're like being really silly about it yeah and by the time they're like done these guys have a long left right and they're like oh my god we had too much to drink we need to take an uber home wait they they didn't even capitalize on that opportunity oh gosh but the next week meg is like i really think we should have said hi to them let's go back to the same place and see if they're there tonight
All right. Okay. I commend that. You're game. You think Kate and Lucy should go with her? Yes. Totally down. If I were Meg's friend, I'd be like, okay, I'm down. But promise me that we're going to make this happen. I'll facilitate this. But you are going to converse and laugh and chat in real life. Okay. This is exactly what Kate and Lucy say. They're like, we will go with you on the condition that you actually make a move. Right. Okay.
And that you like promise to buy us wine. Okay, great. Sweet. Like deal. But Kate and Lucy are also like, we had a great time last week. So like, we like this bar, whatever. If it doesn't go well, at least we have a nice night out with our friends. Right? Right, right, right. So they go, the boys are there again. How do you convince Meg to go talk to him? What's your strategy?
I would just take matters into my own hands. And I would approach Dan and say, like, hey. Oh, you're going full wingman hours. I would go full wingman and just be like, hey, you see my friend over there? Like, they have a huge crush on you. And yeah, I would just go full wingman. But... You would. Yes. However, if I wanted to convince Meg, I would... To go. Yeah.
I would just remind her of the deal. Be like, look, we're here. You promised us. You promised us you're going to make a move. It's do or die. And if it doesn't work out, this is just material for your fan fiction. Yeah. Kate and Lucy do something that I admire because it's something that I often do where they're like, listen, you have 20 minutes to go say hi to him or you pay the whole bill.
Okay. Choose. Great, great, great. And Meg's like, fine, I'm going to do it. I'm going to meet Dan. And they're like, great. You go, girl. Right. They like amp her up. Yes. She like gets up from the table and goes over there. Right. Kate like scooches around to the other side so they can watch. Right. Okay.
They're like watching her go up and she says hi to him. And like, it seems okay. And she comes back to the table like pretty quickly and like plops down and her shoulders are slouched and her lip is like pouting out. Oh no. And Kate and Lucy are like, buddy, like we're so sorry. Oh gosh. And Meg is like me too. Sorry about how I got Dan's number. Yeah.
Yo. Wow. What a comeback story in wham bam. Thank you, ma'am. So after he leaves, they like stay. They have a good time, right? They're like still drinking, having their little snacks and stuff. And Meg's like, I did not get this number just to prove I could get it. I need to text him. But what do you text this guy, right? Who you have been writing fan fiction about for like years.
A year. I don't know. Like, be normal. Text them normally. Hey, it's Meg from the bar. How's like, what's up? Yeah. So this is what they do. It takes them 30 minutes to get to that text. Right. They're like workshopping. Right. They're like, do we send an emoji? Do we send like an emoticon? Right. Do we like what are we doing here? Right. Yeah. Everyone's overthinking everything.
Before Meg gets into the Uber, they like make her hit send. Right. They're like, you hit send on this now. We did not come all this way for you to not text him. So she texts him. The next week, Meg and Dan go on a date. Oh, nice. Obviously, you are not keeping this date a secret. So she like tells Kate and Lucy all about it. Right. All about their first date, about how like he dropped her off at her house. Right. Like very chaste first date.
But the way she tells them about it is by sending them a fan fiction to edit. Wait, what? Like she writes a little story that's no longer a fan fiction because she actually went on a date with Dan. It's just reporting. Yes. She's a reporter now. She's a journalist now. Okay. A bit odd. Yeah. I mean, oh, God, this makes me feel weird.
They are like, ha ha, this is funny. We also feel a little weird about it. Yeah. Then Lucy texts Kate and is like, Meg posted that story to the fanfic group. No. No.
Why? No. 17 of the people reading this fanfic do not know that Meg went on an actual date with Dan. Yeah, I don't like this. I mean, as much of a douche that Dan sounds like, he's not privy to this. So this is like there's like an imbalanced power dynamic happening here. Yes. He's like not privy. Like he didn't consent. I don't know. This is gross. It's weird. Yeah. Right.
So Kate and Lucy are like, Meg, we don't really know about this. Like, it feels weird. It feels a little bad. Like, we don't think that you should, like, be sharing this with a whole group of people. Right. And Meg's like, but we use pen names and it's just 20 of us and it's private. So, like, who cares? Yeah.
Yeah. I mean, this opens up a whole conversation and dialogue of like, what are the allowances of usage in art and in writing? Because just because you like encountered someone in your real life, they don't know. You never technically are consenting to be a part of someone's story.
And yeah, this is tricky. It's tricky. I mean, it does make me feel a little bit better that they're using pen names and somewhat obfuscating the truth. But I don't know. It still feels a bit gross. Mm hmm.
So that's kind of what Kate and Lucy say. They're like, we're not really so certain about this. We don't really think it's a good idea. They're like, if you want to keep writing them, like we encourage you to do that. But like maybe don't post them to the whole group. Right. And Meg's like, okay, I'll just send them to you. And they're like, that's not really what we wanted either, but fine. Wow. So now Meg is writing fanfics about their dates, about their feelings, about their texts. Then.
Then, obviously, Meg and Dan are sleeping together and Lucy and Kate are like, we really do not want to read these explicit stories about you having actual sex with Dan. Like, you are our friend, but no. Yo, that's wild. They're like, if you want to tell us over drinks, fine. But like, what? Right. Yeah, that's a lot. So they try to talk to Meg about it and Meg is like, just, she's one of those girls that like, she gets a boyfriend and she's just gone. Yeah.
Right? She, like, disappears into boyfriend land. Okay. And so they're like, we're not really seeing her. Like, we don't really know what's going on. But, like, they talk to her on the phone and she's like, oh, yeah, he's a great boyfriend. Like, if you guys don't want me to keep sending the fan fix, like, that's fine. And they're like, well, we want to know what's going on. Just don't send us the explicit ones. And she's like, okay, got it. Then...
Meg and Dan go Instagram official. Oh, okay. And Meg sends them this whole fanfic about going Instagram official. And they're like, you didn't even tell us that you had this conversation before you posted it. Like, we didn't even know you were talking about being exclusive. And Meg's like, yes, I did in the story. Whoa, this is so weird. What do you want to do with this?
I mean, I would be pretty upset. I would just be like, hey, we're your closest friends. I would appreciate it if you let me in on these facets of your life before you publish it as part of this larger narrative. It feels very impersonal to receive big life news in this manner. Yes. So that's what they say. And they're like, Meg, dude, you can't do this. We need to talk to you as your friend. And she's like, oh, I thought it was just like...
A cute thing to keep going for the three of us. And they're like, Meg, we get that. But like, you need to talk to us and you hurt our feelings. Right. That like you didn't tell us about like that you were going to be exclusive and that things were going really well in person. Right. And Meg's like, yeah, OK, that's totally fair. Like, you're right.
I should tell you more things and like we'll work on it. Okay. They're like, also, you're disappearing into this relationship. Please stop. And she's like, okay. And they're like, also, we're kind of feeling weird about the fact that we haven't met Dan now that you're like exclusive with him. Oh, because it feels like because they're like, it feels like maybe you don't like want us to meet him.
And Meg is like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's not what I'm doing at all. Of course I want you guys to meet. I've just been like really busy and you're right. I've gotten really distracted. Let me talk to them. Wait, what? See, that right there seems a bit odd. What? I don't know. I mean...
I think when you're with someone, you want to share your life with them. And part of that is like meeting their friends. Yes, but Brian, in this circumstance, they have been writing sexual fan fiction about the guy she is dating for a year.
That's true. But Meg's friends seem like the type that they seem like people that can separate the two of like, that was just like a that was just a crazy ironic or fun or whatever hobby, whatever you want to call it. But I want to meet Dan as a human being. And if he treats you well.
Yeah. Yeah. I do want to clarify that, like, they become exclusive very quickly. Right. Okay. Fair. So, like, there's not a ton of time, right? It's not like they're dating for six months and they don't meet him. It's like they're dating for, like, four weeks. Oh, right, right, right, right. And you did say that Meg is the type of person to just disappear into relationships. Yeah. Ah, yeah. Okay. I can see, like, yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.
Meg's like, I'm going to find a way for you to meet him. How do you feel about meeting your friend's mild celebrity boyfriend that you know she has been obsessed with for a year? How are you feeling? I would feel... You know, for me, it's just a matter of like, okay, if Meg really is in love with him and...
He makes Meg happy. I really want to meet him and just get to know what type of person he is. I would feel a bit odd because I'm privy to so much information that Dan isn't privy to. But I would never disclose that history to Dan. It would be a bit weird, but at the end of the day, I still would really like to meet Dan. Yeah. Okay. So they're exactly on the same page. So Meg texts them a few days later and she's like,
Dan's having a barbecue in his backyard this weekend for us. Like if you're free, are you free Saturday or Sunday? Right. And they're like, we're free Saturday. Right. She's like, here's the address. So they show up and they like text Meg. Right. They're like, we're here. And Meg's like, we're all in the backyard. Like come through the gate. She's like, they're like, okay, great.
So they go through the gate and around the corner of the house, like, and there are all four of the podcast boys. Wow. So it's just the two of them, Meg, Dan, and the three other podcast boys. Okay. So, wow. Exclusive access to this kind of, to the podcast realm. This is a hot ticket. How are you feeling? If it's just, it feels weird. It definitely feels weird. It feels like, yeah, I would feel...
I would be filled with shame. Yeah, I would be like the color of a beet. Like just a full beet body. Yeah, I would be like, this is so awkward and embarrassing. I have definitely fantasized about you, but a part of it is a little bit fun, though. You're like, okay, well, yeah, let's just see how this goes. See?
So Kate and Lucy are like, we really should have had a conversation before we got here because one, we don't know who knows about what. And two, we don't like them. Like what? Like we don't want to date these two other podcasts, these like three podcast boys. And like, what if Meg thought like, oh, haha, I'll introduce them all.
No. So Kate and Lucy are having this like whisper fight conversation right on their way in where they're like, do you want to date him? No. Do you want to date him? No. Okay, great. So we're not dating them. Oh, no. They're like, great. Meg's like, you're here. She like runs up and hugs them both. Kate and Lucy are like, Meg, we do not want to date the other podcast boys in this group. And Meg's like, no, I know you're just here to meet them. Like they're dance friends. Okay, word. Yeah. They're like, great. Okay. Crisis averted. Crisis averted.
They go up to meet Dan. Dan's like at the grill, right? He like puts down his spatula, like wipes his hand on his towel. He extends it out to Kate first. He's like, what an absolute pleasure to meet the fanfic girls. No. Yo. Oh. Well, I'll be so upset at Meg. I'll be like, what the fuck? Why would you tell them this? That's literally what's happening. Why would you tell them this? Because she loves him.
Oh god, I would be so embarrassed. Oh no, oh god. Lucy is like looking at Meg like, she's like, you fucking told him? Yeah. And she's like, yeah, of course I told him. Wouldn't it be weird if I was dating him and hadn't told him? No! Wait, oh. But also, Dan's a fucking weirdo too. Like, why would you want, why would you want, like, that's so weird. Why would you want to hang out? Like, I don't know.
That's like a certain type of guy. Like, yeah, I'm shit. Like you people wrote fanfic about me. Like, come on through. That's like Jared Leto cult energy happening right there. I think it's also because like they did date and it like seemed to work a little bit. I think it makes more sense to be less weirded out about it. Right. Where you're like, oh, this girl just had a huge crush on me.
Fair. But it's still like, what? I mean, it's just so embarrassing. Yes. And they're like, Dan, we want to be clear that we were only ever doing this to support Meg. And Dan's like, I don't care. Like, whatever. He's like, I think it's funny. He calls to the other boys. He's like, don't we all think it's funny? And they're all like, yeah. Yeah.
Yo, this is... I'm cringing so hard right now. Like...
what you're like you have you have no go to any there's no alibis at work like even the explanation of what's your alibi here support my friend that that that also is like like that seems right it's also like no you weren't your bylines are on these right you're like fake bylines oh god oh god oh god but you know what
I still think the guys are gross in this story, too. You're allowed to. Yeah. Like, oh, all of this is just so embarrassing and cringe. I don't like any of this. That's how that is exactly how Lucy and Kate are. They're like, all of this is theoretically fine. But the fact that I'm here makes me want to die. Right. Like, I'm so embarrassed. This is the worst day of my life. Right. Sure. They make it through the barbecue. Yeah.
And they're like, Meg, we swear to God, if you ever put us in that kind of situation again, we're going to lose our shit. And she's like, yeah, haha, it's fair. I just assumed that you guys would have known that I would have told him because he's my boyfriend. And they were like, no, why would we have assumed that? Yo, Meg, what is going on? So we're almost at the very end of our story. How are you feeling? Who do you think the villain is? I feel so gross, but...
You know, okay, I think the two main villains are Meg and Dan. Okay. So Meg on, like, you can't just assume, like, that's such a weak excuse. Like, oh, I thought you would have just known already that of course I would tell my boyfriend Dan. When you would not even let your friends meet Dan in the first place. And there's so much information that Meg's friends were...
that they could have totally blown up her spot in front of Dan, even at the bar. Like it just, it just, it just breaks like friendship code. It's a huge breach of trust right there. So I'm, I'm livid. I'm upset at Meg for that. But then also Dan, why are you upset at Dan? Dan and the podcast guys are,
That's just so... They have no women on their podcast. For one, yes. That too, there's like a power imbalance where they are putting themselves out as public entities. And you're quite privy to the fact that these women may have developed a parasocial relationship with you because the fan fiction and the amount of time and investment into these stories is evidence of that. Like...
It's just gross to be like, yeah, let's hang out with these people. Like they, they're in love with us. Like, it's just like the power and like the power dynamics are totally like, it's like totally off base here. It's just weird. It feels weird. It feels like I don't like them either because I don't know. That's just also gross. Would you like to hear how the story ends?
Yes. How does it end? Okay. So Meg and Dan dated for a while.
Meg apologized to them and was like, I'm so sorry that I didn't tell you. Like, I just lost it. Like, I just really thought you would have assumed that I told him because otherwise it would have been super weird. And they were like, no, you're losing it. Like, that's not realistic. Basically, Lucy and Kate had like a big friendship fight with her. And we're like, you can't fucking like you needed to ask us first. Right. And Meg was like, well, if I had asked you, would you have said yes?
And they were like, not the point. Like, extremely not the point. Right, right, right. Okay, so they had like a big fight, but like, these are very good friends. They got through it. They like, moved on. Meg and Dan got married. No. What? What? Yep. That's, this is wild, well, wild, wild, wild, wild. Okay, well, you know, the heart wants what it wants. And at the wedding, Oh no.
As part of the toast, the groomsman read part of her fan fiction. Oh, why? Why? Why would you do that? Yo. Wow. Do you have any final parting thoughts? This is wow. Wait, are Meg and Co still friends? Yeah.
What a beautiful thing. Friendships are truly resilient. They're so strong. Right. This is some big adversity that they overcame collectively, but I don't know. I mean, overall thoughts is just like... Your overall thought is no. Overall thought is no. Overall thought is...
Go outside. Also, like, imagine how much of this could have been avoided if she had just tried to date Dan earlier. Right? Like, clearly they were actually a good match. So, like, you could have just saved yourself a lot of time and...
by sliding into his DMs. The moral of this story is to slide into DMs. The moral of the story is to slide into the DMs, shoot your shot. Always do that before resorting to creating a splinter fanfiction community. Before, you know, coding up a parlor for fanfiction. But yeah, just slide into the DMs and, uh,
slide into the DMs and go outside, touch some grass, hang out with friends and meet people in real life. It's beautiful. Brian, thank you so much for coming on to normal gossip. It's been a pleasure to have you. Oh, thank you so much for having me, Kelsey and Alex. This is wow. What a roller coaster. So many feelings, but, uh, it was a lot of fun. Yeah.
Thank you for listening to Normal Gossip. If you have a gossip story to share with us, email us at normalgossip at defector.com or you can leave us a voicemail at 2679-GOSSIP. If you love this podcast and want us to keep making it, become a friend or a friend of a friend at supportnormalgossip.com. You can follow me on all social media at McKinney Kelsey. This podcast was produced by Alex Sujan Laughlin. Defector's projects editor is Justin Ellis. Our editor-in-chief is Tom Ley. Thank you for listening to Normal Gossip.
Thanks to the rest of the Defector staff. Defector Media is a collectively owned subscriber-based media company. I'm Kelsey McKinney, and remember, you did not hear this from me.
