S2 Ep4: Short King of East Texas with Lindsey Weber and Bobby Finger
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Hi, and welcome to Normal Gossip. I'm Kelsey McKinney. In each episode of this podcast, we're going to bring you an anonymous morsel of gossip from the real world. Joining us today are Bobby Finger and Lindsay Weber. Bobby is a journalist and writer who has a book coming out in September called The Old Place that I highly recommend. Lindsay has written for literally every publication that exists, including the New York Times, New

Together, they host one of my absolute favorite podcasts, Who Weekly. I personally am a hooligan. I think I listen to both of your voices like for three hours a week. So everything that is wrong with me, I will blame on you. Well, it used to be four, but then you cut one of the episodes. That's not my fault.

Lindsay and Bobby, welcome to Normal Gossip. Yay, thanks for having us. We love gossip. We love your show. We love normal gossip. We love gossip. We love all kinds of gossip. I'm excited to be on it, not just because obviously I love hearing myself speak, but also this is our favorite show, so we just want more gossip. We're upset that there's seasons. How dare you? Stop. Stop.

Well, for the listener context, you're in between seasons. Like we're recording before season two launches. So this is like a little early treat for you. I'm just excited to get Goss today. Lindsay and I were talking about this yesterday. It was like, oh my God, we're going to get Goss. I just buckle up. The inbox is wild. The one today is wild. I don't know. At this point, I'm like, oh, these are all normal gossips when I like do

do them in the run through and then we do them live. And I'm like, Oh, yeah, this is actually demented. Well, I just feel very fun. You know, we deal in celebrity gossip. It's always heightened because the person is famous. I do feel like the problem with normal gossip is it has to be really, really, really good to get to that level of excitement where you just don't know the person. And I just feel like you guys have really high standards and you know, good gossip when you hear it.

Thank you. I'm always impressed. Great transition. Thank you. I would love to talk to you both about, first off, your relationships with gossip as individuals. So let's start there. Lindsay, you go first. Tell me how you feel about gossip, how you felt about it as a child. Oh, gossip.

What's your relationship like? I really like gossip. I think I've had a tumultuous relationship with it in terms of my own life because I do feel like it's a tool that can be used for good or for evil. I love sharing stories with my friends. I have an awful memory, so I don't trust myself to remember the original gossip, which has become a problem.

That's not important. That's not important here. But now that celebrity gossip is kind of my job, I even value the stories about people, real people, real lives more even. And I always think about the kind of when I worked at BuzzFeed a few times, this incredible Matt Stapara used to make rounds throughout the office and he would always come up and say, so what's the goss? And I remember that being the first like we're gossiping like.

Like, what is the goss? And that is amazing. But I also think, like, it's such a good way to build relationships with people, you know? And even the most harmless goss can form the tightest bonds. And I just, I love it. Bobby, your turn. Tell me how you feel about gossip. I love gossip. I love it. In high school, I was, like, very uncool. But I remember there were multiple instances when people...

would tell me goss, like really crazy high school goss. And they would, for some reason, my group of friends and people beyond my group of friends came to the conclusion that I was trustworthy, which I thought was like a huge compliment. And I think I was, but I don't know where it came from. So I think it just came from the fact that I was like this kind of like timid, unassuming kind of lame-o. And so sometimes I heard like crazy goss in high school and I always loved it because it made me feel like

than I was. You know, like, I was given privileged information. But, like, the act of being told something just, like, makes me feel really good. And I don't, maybe that's a bad thing, but, like, it just makes me feel really good. Like, I feel like, oh my god, I feel like people trust me. You know? People might not care about me, but they trust me. You know? Well, there is

I think especially in high school, there's more power almost in knowing everything that happened at the party than it being at the party. Or when the stuff that happened at the parties, Kelsey. The stuff that happened at the parties. You don't have to go. You just have to know what happened. You have to know enough people. Well, I wasn't allowed to go. I never would have been able to go. Okay. Your relationship, your friendship is very public. You are on air all the time. Like how...

How and when do you gossip with each other? Like what forms do you prefer? How do you, how do you disclose a good story? Like, do you save it?

Voice note. Voice note. Voice note. Oh my God. It has to be voice notes because they go away. Unless you keep them. And so when you keep them and the other person knows that you keep them, you have to be very clever with the keeping because you're like, if I keep this, I have to be able to defend this. But I think the thing that voice notes are great, though, because even if I were to keep them, I don't know where they go. I can't reshare them. I don't know how to do that. That's not technology. What do you do with it?

I don't know. I just do save and then it goes somewhere and I've never found them. Like, I just don't know where they are, you know? To like answer your question, like when we goss about like, just like people that we know personally, when it's not like, you know, Shailene Woodley and Aaron Rodgers or whatever. Right, right. It's fully voice note and it's at all hours. It's all the time. Like, and I think that's the thing about, I get very, um,

and anxious if I haven't responded to a text, specifically a text, emails, who cares, but like a text in time. And Lizzie's like, who cares? She's like, who cares? There's no like urgency to a text. He doesn't answer any emails. You can tell that's... But because of that, sometimes there was a birthday party fairly recently that I couldn't go to. And...

and Lindsay went and then sent me this goss. Like, I woke up to it. And it was from, like, 2 a.m. And she was like, you're never going to believe this story. And it's, like, laughing, and it's, like, these three things. And then, like, last time I got goss, I sent it over as a voice note. Just because it's not even necessarily...

discretion that it's a voice note it's that it's just so much easier it's easier faster than typing out all of the details because there's no longer text that you send someone than a text about gossip it's easier and if anything this podcast proves that it's just way more fun to tell the story than to type it out and i just think the tone is so important in terms of like what you're gossiping

about yeah you never wanted to feel that mean-spirited you just want to be like I got this information can you believe it and like that's way yeah more fun than something that feels like it could be either screenshotted or shared not that I think Bobby would do that but it just it does feel like a little bit like if you get my intention with the way that I'm telling you the story then you'll understand that it's all in good fun it's all you know it's all whatever

Okay, before we begin our gossip today, can you each tell me about what your relationship is like with like plants and gardening? Um, last year, I grew tomatoes, my chives are back, I have lavender back there. I have a closet that has like the light, I have the light thing in the closet. Okay.

I walked into Lindsay's apartment like a week or two ago and it was like all the lights were off. And there was this like literally the poltergeist was in a closet. And I was like, Lindsay, why is your closet glowing? And she was like, open it. And I opened it up and there were just like plants everywhere.

It looked like a fire hazard, but she claims it's not one. I'm growing those. I'm using one of those click to grow where you have the light, it's herbs, it's basil and thyme and I want to say parsley. And you just... For some reason, when you said plants in a closet and then you were like glowing light, I immediately was like, it's weed. She's growing weed in the closet. Well, I had this plan.

this fantasy of am I gonna get arrested I had this fantasy of growing mushrooms and I did all this research I read a book I thought this could gotta be easy if you were gonna get arrested they probably would have done it off of you googling how to grow mushrooms well come and get me google police and so I but I scrapped that and I was like it would be nice though if I bought one of these on sale kind of like hydroponic uh herb growing machines to really test out my green thumb and I have to say

They're really foolproof. I cannot recommend them enough. I used the parsley last night. I was like, this is why people do this. Well, I intended on growing magic mushrooms in my closet, and then I settled on parsley. We all have dreams. That's really cool. Would you like to do some gossip? Oh my God, yes. Please. Desperate for it.

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Hosted by Maria Garcia, this is My Devo, an Apple original podcast produced by Futuro Studios. Follow and listen on Apple Podcasts. Our gossip today begins during a very stressful time. It is right before Thanksgiving. Annie and Craig, a couple, are traveling to visit Annie's family in Southeast Texas. There's a lot of tension between Annie and her younger sister, Ellen. Oh.

And their parents. So Andy is like full of dread. Bobby, what do you need to say already? You can't say the moment you say Southeast Texas, I'm like putting on my seatbelt. I'm like, oh, no. Bobby, can you explain where that is? Like what city is Southeast Texas? It's like Houston is technically Southeast Texas, but I'm assuming you're thinking even deeper Southeast Texas, like close to Corpus Christi. Like a wider Texas, like deeper.

deep into like white supremacist Texas. That's what I think of when I think of Southeast Texas. Like if you drove two hours west of New Orleans, you would be in Southeast Texas. Okay, we're boarding Louisiana, Texas. Yes. Okay. Yes. Okay. So Annie's little sister, Ellen, lives close to their parents still. And things with their parents are like kind of difficult because after their dad's mom's death last year, he inherited some money, but not a ton. Right.

And so the dad decided like, oh, with my mom's money, with this inheritance I've received, I'm going to renovate the house. Okay. So we're talking anywhere from $25,000 to $50,000 because we're doing a house renovation. So it's not enough to pay for you forever, but enough to do a big project like that.

Exactly. And so they're like, what we'll do is we'll move into this like little house on our property, like a guest house or a pool house or something while they're doing the house renovations. Okay, this obviously makes them fight all the time because they're living in this like tiny little house. And so Annie's sister Ellen has ended up like in the middle of all of these issues, just like trying to like

do mediation work. And Ellen is like, I'm really busy because I'm trying to do my job, which is selling specialty dollhouse supplies online. Nope. Love that. Wait, is this during the pandemic? Because I could see that being huge, big business. I think so. I'm not exactly sure on the timing here. How does this not narrow down who this is? This is

This is a revealing detail. They can change details. Okay. So she's like trying to get it up and running, but it's like hard work. And she's like, I'm spending, my parents are spending all this money on renovating their house for like basically no reason when they could be like using this for something else or like helping me a little bit. She's like all upset. And then there are the orchids.

What do you know about orchids? Well, there's an orchid show in the Bronx that's being run by Jeff Lethley, Celebrity Florist to the Stars. That's all that I know. They're very temperamental. Yes. You know, seen Adaptation, read The Orchid Thief. They're tough to grow. And they're collected. They're collectibles. And they can be very expensive if you have a rare...

a rare orchid. Yes. Great. Wow. You both know so much about orchids, which is incredible. I mean, you can also buy them at Trader Joe's, but just saying, in case that scared off anyone from orchids. Yeah.

Okay, so some men buy a convertible as their midlife crisis. Annie and Ellen's dad, Hank, has bought just tons of orchids. Oh my god. Okay. He like, orchids like kind of have some family history for them. Like when he and his wife got engaged 40 years ago, their mom got Hank an orchid as a gift. Okay.

Cool. She was like, this is so cute, but she did not intend for it to become his entire life, which it has since he got the inheritance. Part of the reason they wanted to renovate the house was so that they could put in a big glass like room off of the kitchen. A greenhouse. So that the fancier orchids could be inside. Right.

Oh, so they're outside now. This is a great hobby. I have no problem with this. You love it. Okay, great. Great hobby. I don't know. I just feel like parents need hobbies sometimes. I don't know. Like, that's a nice one. That's a good one. Who does that harm? Clearly someone. So this is how Annie's mom feels. Annie's mom is like, whatever. Like, I'm glad that you have your little hobby. I'm glad that you're like not only thinking about work. The orchids are pretty, right? Mm-hmm.

But on the phone, Annie's mom tells her that like things are becoming like weirder, right? Like Hank is now like making his own moss and like harvesting it and washing it and like planting the orchids in it. He's like buying supplies wholesale, right?

On the phone, Annie's mom is like, if we get divorced, I get the house and he gets the orchids. Okay, fair. So he's like becoming a prepper, but if the only currency in the post-apocalypse were orchids. Exactly. Okay. He's just taking it too far, which is like, yeah, sure. Yeah. Okay. Got it. Yes. But it's also an element of, right? Like his mom died. Maybe it's a grieving thing. Like we'll let it go. Right.

So Annie and Craig get on their flight. They fly into Houston. They land. Annie has three voicemails on her phone when they land. I mean, middle of the country, that flight could have been more than four hours. Max. Max. Oh, no. Oh, my God. The first is from her sister. Her sister was supposed to come get them from the airport on the phone in the voicemail. Her sister is just like indecipherable, like crying, sobbing, can't hear her, can't understand her.

The second call is from her mom that's like, call me back right now. The third call is from her dad and it's like, I'm in the cell phone lot. Like, let me know when you get here. Okay, that's nice. And he's like, this is my worst nightmare because this means that I have to drive with my dad the two hours back to our like house from the airport instead of being with my sister. Yeah.

So as they're, like, waiting for their bags, she calls her mom back. And her mom's like, everything is out of control. Apparently, while they were on the flight, Ellen left, like, her laptop and her, like, expensive dollhouse supplies on the dining table while she was, like, helping prep for Thanksgiving. Oh, no.

Hank did his like weekly Wednesday watering and spilled water on the table, which destroyed Ellen's craft supplies. And because she didn't notice, zapped her computer. Oh, no.

Oh, no. This is why he needs his little house, his little greenhouse. It gets worse. So rude. Ellen, the younger sister, because her stuff is ruined, really just full youngest child mode, burns all of the like broken craft supplies on the lawn and is now speaking to no one and has gone home.

Okay. A little dramatic. So she threw a fit. She threw a fit. Got it. Father is just trying to water his plants. Okay. As you said, it's Thanksgiving though. Tensions are high. She was already probably already at an eight, you know? Exactly. How big could these small dollhouse furnitures be? We're talking about tiny tables. You could make another tiny table. Come on. What does she mean? How big was the fire? You're right. How big was this fire? Could you roast a marshmallow on the remains of her craft supplies? Obviously not.

Okay. So Annie, Annie's still at the airport. She like relays all this information to Craig. She's like, my dad, Hank is on the way to get us.

Hank arrives. He like loads their bags in the car. He's like a big Texas man, right? He's got like a little beer belly. He's like well over six feet wearing boots. Like he's wearing like a short sleeve button up shirt. This makes the orchid thing even cuter, by the way, like this. It does. Yeah. So just saying I'm still on his side. Go ahead. He like shakes Craig's hand and like pats Annie on the shoulder and is like, I'm so glad to see you. Right. They get in the car immediately. Hank is like only talking about the orchids.

He talks about the orchids from the minute he picks them up until they get into the driveway, which is a full two hours. That's nuts. I love it. So by the time Craig and Annie get out of the car, they're like, we're so fucking tired. Like, I cannot, like, think about orchids anymore. Everyone's in a terrible mood. Oh, man.

Annie's mom shows them up to their room in the now renovated house. And Annie's like, oh, I thought you guys would be done unpacking by now because it's full of boxes.

And her mom raises her eyebrow and is like, well, if your father would help, we'd be done unpacking. Orchid. He spends too much time in the orchid. And he's like, wait, he's not helping you? And her mom is like, oh, yeah, because he's just like playing with his little orchids. And Annie is like, whatever. Like, I cannot get involved in this. They go to sleep. Next morning is Thanksgiving, right? Everyone's feeling a little better. Everyone has their coffee. Everyone's a little calm. They're all helping, like, cook the meal, except for Hank, who is like,

keeps leaving to play with his orchids right sure ellen shows up in like the mid-afternoon she has like oh that's so rude on thanks 500 deep breaths it is rude ellen show up in the morning you know everyone's gonna be mad if you show up in the middle of the afternoon on thanksgiving so now everyone's mad and annie's like can you get over here and like please fucking help me yes and ellen's like ellen's like why do i need to help dad isn't helping

Get a grip. Respect your elders. How do you think Annie should handle this situation? I mean, obviously she she should diffuse because it's not worth getting in a fight with her sister. He's already in a fight with her father and, you know, who's in a fight with her mother. So I probably would yell and scream, but I'm not a good example. I would not handle this well, you know.

Yeah. Annie should not yell and scream, though, because I think Annie should recognize that she is the one who's traveling for this and that there's probably a little resentment on Ellen's part where it's like, oh, we have to schedule everything around Annie showing up from wherever she lives. She lives somewhere else. And when she flies in, she gets all this attention. So I'm sure Ellen has some, like, longstanding bitterness over that. But also...

Your sister's in town. And, like, don't you want someone to complain about your dad with? Yeah, you need an ally. Well, she has her boyfriend. It's worth getting there early just to get that out of the way, you know? Yes. So Annie has, like, basically landed where you are, Bobby. And she's like, you know, I understand why my sister is, like, frustrated. I understand that, like, she helps my parents all the time. And I come in for one day and I'm like, why aren't you helping with dinner? Exactly. She's like, but...

There's a lot of shit to do because it's Thanksgiving. So she's like, you know what? I'm going to go get my dad and they're both going to help. That's like my answer to this. Okay. This is the first time that she like actually sees the orchids up close. There are lots of them. Orchids, I have learned since like beginning research for this podcast, are extremely hard to grow. They require extremely specific temperatures. They will sometimes bloom after like one night's drop in temperature. Wow.

Many of them will only grow on like stumps and trees and other plants. The ones that grow in pots need like very specific climates to be happy, as you said. There are like dozens and dozens of forums with special tips about orchids that you can read if you care about that.

But Hank's orchids are extremely happy. There are like dozens of colors. They are all blooming. The stems are very green. The moss, all his like special moss makes the room look really soft. And Annie is like, this is such a like cottagecore vibe. Like the light coming in through the windows makes it look like a big church. She's like, oh my God, this is great. And she's watching her dad and he's like so carefully like tying these orchids, right? And like trimming them off.

And she's like, this is really cute, but also, like, no one has chopped any onions. So, like, come on. We're going to the kitchen. So she, like, drags Hank back. She's like, look, Ellen, Dad's here. Time to help. So Ellen, like, helps. Everything's fine, right? Thanksgiving is good. It's a little tense, but everything's fine. The next day...

in this family is the day where you put up the Christmas tree, right? It's like Christmas day. Sorry. Too early. That's so awful. No, this part of the story. No, that's awful. That's way too early. Okay. Everyone, but it's while Annie's never home. Yeah. It's like, right. We're in town. Let's do the next thing. The families do. Right. Exactly. So God forbid anyone relax. Everyone is now decorating for Christmas, right? Yeah.

So they're like putting up lights. They're like, you know, doing all their little Christmassy things. When Hank gets a phone call and darts out the front door and Annie's like,

That was a little too fast for me. So she follows him out the front door. And so does like the rest of the family. There's so much in the middle of decorating for Christmas that Annie's like boyfriend Craig is still like holding a string of lights. Okay, Craig's helping. He's like trying to unhaggle. I was going to say, is Craig helping out? Like what's Craig's role here? Craig is not being lazy, right? Craig is participating. No, Craig's helping. He's just being very quiet. Craig is just standing by. That's fair. Craig's being respectful. Sometimes...

That's the only answer. You just are in the background. Okay, so they're all on the front porch. And in front of the house is an 18-wheeler truck. Is it filled with dirt?

It's filled with orchid material. Oh, orchid material. Hell yeah. Yes, it's dirt. It's moss. It's pots. Incredible. It's all the shit. Great. Yes, there's so much orchid shit that there are like three guys unloading this truck and like carrying supplies around the house. This whole family is standing there just like watching this when this guy from like across the street comes out of his house and like power walks over and he is the head of the HOA and he's here to chastise Hank. Oh my gosh.

Oh, come on. He's like, no one is allowed to run a commercial business from their house. And Hank's like, I'm not running a commercial business. And the HOA guy is like, then why do you have so many orchids? Like, what are you doing with all this shit? Why do you need it? He's like, I am not stupid. I know that orchids are worth money. Like, and you have a lot of orchids. This is a commercial business. Oh my God. I never even considered that. Hmm.

Hank also never considered this. Oh, okay. He's like, no, this is not, it's not a commercial business. It's just my hobby. Like, please leave me alone. Okay. Everyone is mad about the 18 wheeler and all of the dirt. Isn't Texas the whole thing is leave me alone? Like, don't they, don't you move to Texas to be left alone? Lindsay, Lindsay. By the government? No. By the man? No one under an HOA gets to be left alone.

I don't care where you are. There is no democracy in an HOA. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Awful, awful. Okay, so everyone is, like, tense, but also everyone in the family is, like, kind of on Hank's side, right? They're like, fuck this HOA guy. Like, leave our dad and his orchids alone. I've been on his side the whole time. So Hank has, like... Love this. You really have. So Hank has, like, a little backup, right? On the way to the airport, Hank is, you know, talking about his orchids again with...

Annie and Craig. And he's like, you know, this HOA guy has given me like an idea. He's like, maybe I should start a commercial business. He planted the seed. Literally. He's like, he's like, I'm really good at it. I've got all these orchids. I already have all the supplies. Yeah.

like they'll make other people happy. And then like maybe other people, like maybe your mom would be more supportive if this was like also bringing in a little money. And Annie's like, I think mom's fine. She just wants you to help her with the chores, but whatever. Do you think that Annie and Craig should do anything about this? Do you support Hank? How are you feeling? Let's do a check-in. I mean, I'm, if not for the HOA guy, I would say no.

Keep living your dream. But because of the HOA guy, I would say, Dad, just quit while you're ahead. Keep doing this as a hobby. But the moment you start turning this into a business, like, I think this makes me sound like a loser and very defeatist, but, like, HOA people are...

I don't care who they are. And they're mean and they're nasty and you don't want to get into a fight with them or your life will be miserable. Like, this is where you live. I would just say, I will never win a battle against an HOA busybody asshole. So I would just stop. And if they're doing okay and they don't need the money, just enjoy your orchids. Lindsay's like, I'm starting a fight. Lindsay's so mad. Lindsay's like,

Okay, here's what I'd do. I'd say, Hank, talk to my friend Lindsay and figure out your plan of attack. Lindsay, go. Fuck the man. Do not... You asked for forgiveness, not...

Not for permission. Permission. Like do what you want to do. Fuck this HOA. Like this guy does not need to know anything. He already denied it. Sell your shit. You can do it like in a way that doesn't bother anyone. It is a great way to like expand your hobby, like to make it something a little bit more meaningful. You could like have this little business. I don't know. I don't have an issue. I mean, I obviously feel like, again, ask for permission.

Ask for forgiveness, not for permission in this one. Okay. So you've both taken a strong tact, right? Like don't do it or first do it. Little do you know, not little do you know, probably you realize this really says a lot about our, this is really our personalities and a real metaphor for how we feel about things in the world also. Yeah. It's almost like I choose the stories for the guests, isn't it? Interesting. Yeah.

Okay. So Annie and Craig are not like you, either of you. They're just like, I'm not getting involved in this fucking orchid drama. Like Ellen is already annoying us. Like we're getting on a plane and going home. Like good luck, dad. Have fun with your orchids. We support whatever you do. I just-

I feel like Ellen has a small business. It's a nice thing for the family to do together. It can involve all of them. Ellen can make like tiny furniture that the orchids go into. I don't know. Like it feels like a cool project that they can all do. And to me, that is the glimpse of something very cool. Okay.

I think that you're right. And I think that's a great idea. Annie and Craig are like, goodbye. Sure, sure, sure. Okay, yes. Fine. They're leaving. Over the next few weeks, though, they start getting like dispatches from Ellen about like what's happening with the Orchid business, right? Obviously. An important thing to note here is that Hank is still employed as a consultant for like a big company as his day job. Because of this... So you're saying he has free time. Yes. And...

Because of this, he believes in like the power of consulting writ large. So he's like, if I'm going to start an orchid company, I should hire a consultant to help me. Oh my fucking God. I mean, this is the most like 67 year old man I've ever heard of in my entire life. You do need to be a little discreet. That would be the only thing I would just be like, okay, do it casually.

But I guess this is a guy who can't do anything. Lindsay getting into a fight with her HOA day where they're like, I don't know what you're talking about. As like a UPS driver pops up and is like, hey, Lindsay, what do you got for me today? Be like, I don't know what you mean. Get away from me. I would be like, these are all gifts. I send a lot of gifts. I send a lot of gifts. These are all gifts. These are all gifts.

I don't know. I really just feel like I would be like, be subtle. But I guess what you're saying is this guy has no subtlety in terms of like running this business. If he's running a business, it's going to be like literally Dunkin Donuts. You know, like it's a business. Exactly. Okay. So this is how Hank meets Larry. Uh-oh. New guy. Oh, no. Oh, no.

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It is so relatable to me. I would like never check my bank account unless I really, really have to because it gives me so much anxiety. And is there a reason that you check your bank account now? Yeah, I get these awesome emails from Rocket Money that are like, hey, FYI, this is how much you spent last week. And it feels like a gentle person holding my hand as I go to my bank account. Oh, yeah.

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He's about 40, so he's younger than Hank. He runs an orchid consultant business. Not a thing. And, no, it is a thing. And an orchid sales business. Oh, my God. Okay. He's about 5'6". He's always wearing overalls. He smokes cigarrillos. He arrives, and pretty quickly, they have, like, insane grown men dad bro vibes. Oh, no.

Ellen is on the phone with Annie and she's like, you are not going to fucking believe this, but they are always hugging. Oh, and Annie is like, you've got to be shaming me. Dad never hugs anyone. He patted me on the shoulder when we arrived from the airport. And Ellen's like, well, he hugs Larry. They're always in these stories when somebody's dad has a close friend who may or may not be a lover. Their name is Larry. This is a story.

second time this has happened to me Larry showing up like smoking in overalls a little younger a little shorter oh my god two good men who love flowers I don't need you to finish this story I'm finishing it in my head and I'm really happy with the result you know like I like the ending I like the ending

Very quickly, Hank and Larry decide to do what a lot of men in Texas decide to do, and they start buying land. This is not important, but to me it's important, so I'm going to tell you that the company they buy the land from is called Baker's Acres. Love that. Okay. Anyway.

They get very involved. They're like getting all these plans for the like orchid sales business. They like are building a greenhouse, right? All this shit's happening. That's nice. I'm still down for this. It is nice. Because I'm like, now he can like quit his boring job and like do his passion full time with his friend Larry. I like how supportive you are. He doesn't have to get the HOA guy pissed off. Yeah. Okay. So Annie's parents come to visit them like in the early part of the year. So like six months later.

Annie and Craig like take them around, right? They're seeing all the sites. They like go into this fancy big grocery store that's like a specialty grocery store. And Annie's like, dad, like you like specialty cooking stuff. Like look at all this shit you could buy, right?

Hank is like, I'm going to buy some nice olive oil because like I deserve it. And instead of asking a sales associate for help, Hank calls Larry. They are on the phone for like 40 minutes while Annie is just like, we like. Bobby like is so excited about this. Bobby's so far away from the mic. Bobby, what? He's so excited. He knows. Do I have, what do I have to say? I don't have to say anything.

Hank called Larry for olive oil advice at the specialty grocery store. Larry knows. What other commentary can I provide to that? Larry knows. Come on. The rest of the trip, Hank is just like texting Larry constantly. And Annie's like, are you fucking kidding? Like, why are you texting Larry? Like, you're here.

Yeah, yeah. Okay, well, you know...

Annie's like, whatever. But she does a classic thing where like to let off steam about your parents, you call your sibling, right? It's always a good move. Yes. So she calls Ellen and Ellen's like, yeah, this is how Larry is. Do you know about Eli? No, not another man. And Annie's like, who's Eli? Ellen tells her this story that they needed to hire a manager for the nursery and

And Hank wanted to hire this guy who was like some local guy who grew orchids or whatever. And Larry was like, that guy is just a hobbyist. We do not need a hobbyist. We need someone with like innate skills for orchids. Like not necessarily trained, but someone who we can train for the complexity of orchids, not just some dude. And Hank is like, I'm kind of just some dude who likes orchids, but like Larry knows what's best. Right. Yeah.

And Larry's like, I found this guy. And the guy does seem really good. Hank's like, he seems really smart. He gets it. His name is Eli. He's like very good with the orchids or something. I don't really know what this means. Same age, younger, older.

He's like 22. Oh, okay. Baby. Orkin Hunk. Okay, love it. Yes. New Hunk. New Hunk. One of the, I do know this part, which is that one of the selling points that Larry used to convince Hank that they should hire this guy is that Eli can draw a perfect circle freehand. Oh my God. Okay, that's impressive. Sure. Yeah.

So they hire Eli, who's like, he's 22. Larry's like, he's going to be my apprentice and teach him everything I know. Uh-oh. Eli is like good at his job, but he's 22. Right. So he has like a lot going on. He's like, his siblings live in town, so he has to like get them from school sometimes. He's like flighty. He's also 22 in Texas, which means he's engaged. Yeah. Right. Yep. So he is like planning a wedding. Got it. He's like, I'm very busy. Right.

So Hank ends up doing his job and Eli's job because Eli is always missing. And some of Larry's job because Larry's like still not nearby. Yeah.

He's still trying to find a house in the area. And Hank's original job. And Hank's own consultancy job. Right. Yes. But again, a lot of free time. Yeah. Wow. When Annie hears this from Ellen, she's like immediately annoyed. She's like, why are they starting this nursery anyway? Like dad still has a full-time job. This is such a waste of like,

If he's going to hire a consultant, the consultant needs to be helping. And if he's going to hire a small, like, 22-year-old to help run things, that person needs to work. And Ellen's like, I don't know. They're being really annoying, but, like, dad's always being annoying. If he wants to ruin his life and work all the time, that's, like, his decision. Okay. Yeah.

But Annie is the oldest child and she's like, his actions have consequences for all of us. What if he spends all the money and then they don't have any savings? That would be really bad. Yeah. Does anyone at this point talk about

how strange it is that their father is like developing all these like new relationships. It sounds like this is a very new, like even beyond orchids, it's like, oh wow, he suddenly has two new friends. It's hard to make friends with you're an adult. And now he has two new ones suddenly and he spends all his time with them. Like no one's discussing how weird that is.

It is. No. It has gone in the direction of like a little bit sketchy because now we're asking for investments, actual money that is, you know, quickly for the family but is now towards this business. Right. Okay. So now things have gotten off track. Okay. Right. So that's where Annie is. Okay.

Annie is like, I'm feeling like things are getting a little distracted from dad's true pursuit, which is growing extremely strange and rare orchids. Right. Like now there's a lot of other things going on. Right. And she's like, I really feel like we should do something about this. Like how much is Larry being paid for this consulting when he's like always on the phone with dad? Like how many other things is Larry moving, like getting to weigh in on? I don't know.

And Ellen's like, Annie, you're not here. You don't know what's going on. Like, I don't know what to tell you, but it's all fine. Okay. And Annie's like, it doesn't seem fine to me. When her dad calls her and invites her to the nursery opening in September, so now it's like almost a full year later, the nursery is ready to open. Annie's like, I feel like I need to go to this. Like, I feel like I need to lay eyes on the operation. And also, it's my dad's special day. So I should probably go and like be supportive. Yeah.

Good. Good. She should. She absolutely should. 100%. Yes. Craig is like, great. I'll stay here. Oh, he's coming. No. Craig's going. Because Annie's like over my dead body. Am I going to my dad's nursery opening with his weird friend Larry without Craig? Like, no. Craig's a trooper.

So she and Craig, she drags Craig back to Southeast Texas for the opening. They're smarter this time. They rent a car from the airport. Alamo. They arrive at the house and Larry is there. Not only is Larry there, Larry is in the living room in like a bathrobe over like a white tank top and boxer shorts.

Larry is like holding his toothbrush. Yeah, he is. Larry is wearing their father's house shoes. Uh-huh. Yep. Larry is now living in the guest house. Oh my God. All right. Well, Larry. So Larry lives in the house that they lived in when they were doing the renovations. Exactly. I really wanted them to be in love. And it turns out that's just really, that's optimistic. Larry's just a grifter. Scammer vibes. Yeah. He's using him. Okay. Okay. We don't like this. Okay. Okay.

Annie's annoyed. Ellen is annoyed. Craig is annoyed. Mom's annoyed because fucking Larry's always around. You could say a person who's a consultant should know better about other consultants, but whatever. Just saying. They're all scammers. Hank does not know better. He's thrilled. Hank's like, my best friend Larry's here. We're opening the nursery. Everything's going great. That night after dinner...

Annie's parents go to bed like early. They're like, okay, good night. And Larry like will not go back to the guest house and leave Annie and Craig alone. He's like holding court in the living room. He's talking about how he went to Yale. He's talking about how he's from a huge landowning family in Ireland, but how he didn't take his inheritance because of taxes. Has Larry ever heard a podcast? Like...

How he and his wife love to travel to South Africa and how they found a meerkat that is rare and was pregnant. And they smuggled it in. And now they're selling the kittens for 50K each. It's a really good deal, he says. You should invest. Oh, my God. Inventing Larry over here. I can't. Has Larry, like, literally, does Larry not know? We all know about scammers now. This is culture. Come on, Larry. Yeah.

Yes. So the more he talks, Annie and Craig are like, this guy is fucking full of shit. He's full of shit. They're like, we've heard, like, we listened to Bad Blood. We know better than to listen to this guy. If you sold the Meerkat for $50,000, why are you wearing Hank's house shoes, Larry? Buy your own pair of Rothy's, okay? They're a good deal. You can get a podcast code, Hank. These people are...

Larry. So good at what they do. These consultants are so good at what they do, which is scam you out of money and then move into your guest house. They're good talkers. Yeah. Yeah. Incredible. Annie and Craig are furious.

They are also stuck in the living room while, like, Larry is holding court. What do you, like, think they should do in this scenario? You're, like, certain he's kind of a scammer. You're stuck in the living room with him. He won't shut up. You want to go to sleep. You overdo it. You have to yawn really dramatically and really overdo it because this person is not the type of person who picks up on subtle cues. So you have to really act like, look at your watch like you are on stage. Yeah.

and you say oh wow oh my god it's already 11 30 the time zones change are you asking what they should do to that's what you do you say what you were i need to go to sleep no but i think she were you not i think both i'm asking you both like how do you get out of this scenario how do you go to sleep he really

he really took the direct. That is part of the question I was asking. It's like, how do you get out of this conversation? And then what do you do with this information? You pretend to be more tired than you've ever been. And then the next morning, and then the next morning you talk to your fucking mom, because I'm starting to wonder where is Hank's wife and all of this? Where's Annie's mom? Annie's mom has agency and she could say no to this and she's not. And I want to know what the fuck is up. I don't talk to dad at all tomorrow. I talk to mom. Well,

Well, I would be like, where do you think he's getting the money? Are you getting a sense of are there credit card bills coming in that that are confusing? Like, is this from the account? Is this like, where is this money coming from? Oh, and she was like, oh, it's from his own thing. Then you have another issue. But if it's like, oh, it's from this. It's from our account. I'd be like, let's like, see if we can like shut it off or something. Like, can I look at the can I look at the statements? Can I see?

because you want to see like if there are weird checks going to Larry. If so, how much are they for? Like, you know, were they being cashed? What banks were they being cashed in? Like, et cetera, et cetera. Like, I feel you could do a little bit of like this. It feels common for us because we're all like weird journalists, but like a little bit of common sleuthing that would be relatively level one.

When you founded this business, when you actually organized the legal entity of this business, who signed the paperwork and who signed what? Did Larry actually set up the business? Is there an accountant that I can talk to? Who signed the lease on the office? Like,

My favorite thing about journalists is that we're all like equally demented. And so we're all like, well, you just look up the like the filing for their company and you see whose name it's under. And then you just call that number and you just ask them 17 questions and pretend you're an accountant. And then you know all this information. At some point in time recently, I was talking to a real estate agent and I was telling her kind of all these things I was doing. And she was like, what? And I was like, yeah, that's normal.

It's normal. You just like, look at this. You Google this. You'd find this person. And she was like, no one does that. And I was like, oh, I was a journalist too. And she was like, wow, that is...

absolutely insane but it made me realize that kind of this baseline googling that we all that we do is unusual other people do not do it's right there and and usually like there's definitely stuff that it's complicated to get that you can't just do at your home computer but like a lot of stuff is either right there or you pay like 4.95 for it you know you pay a little bit of money for it but that

why I always feel like especially writers and critics are incredulous when they see scammer documentaries. How could this happen? Tinder swindler, etc, etc. How could this person not look anyone up? And it's like, because you are trained to do that. And most people don't even think that there are resources like that out there for them. I love it. Anyways, ask your journalist friend to help you if you ever have a issue like that. So Annie is like my first priority, like Bobby is going to sleep. I'm sick of this guy. I want out of here.

That's what I'm always saying. She goes into her parents' room. She's like, knock, knock, knock. Come get your fucking friend. I don't want to entertain him anymore. Her dad comes out and she's like, we're going to sleep. Goodbye. Right? She's like super mad. She decides she's like, I'm going to talk to my parents in the morning.

When she wakes up, the house is in complete and utter chaos. Like, everyone is behind on things. There is no time for her to talk to anyone about anything. Like, so many things need to be done before the opening that afternoon that, like, she just can't get a word in. Right? They get to the nursery. Things are, like, even more chaotic than she thought. Both Larry and Hank have hired a band. So there are two bands playing. No.

Both Larry and Hank have bought refreshments, so there is tons of booze. There are five welcome and grand opening signs, and there is absolutely no food. Oh, my God. No food? There's no food. No food. There's a ton of booze. There's no food. No food. No. Unacceptable. Yes. Yeah. Larry comes up to Annie and is like, can you figure out how to get us some food, sweetheart? Yeah.

And he's like, sweetheart. He turns to Craig and he's like, women are always pretty good at this kind of thing, don't you think? Oh my God. Love these details. Do you think that you should help obtain food for your father's nursery opening? Kind of. There, you can help. Come on. We've come too far. Bobby, why no? That was a gut, that was a visceral reaction to that because it was asked by Larry. Mm.

But I would say no to Larry and I would just like not want anything to do with him. And then I would go to Craig and be like, I can't believe this. Now I have to fucking buy all the food for this thing. And then I would do it. And I would do it. And it would be there quickly and it would be good. And I would complain about it for many, many days. But yeah, if it were Larry, I would kind of brush him off and then deal with it and then complain about it later. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Bobby, right on track. That's exactly what Annie does. She's like, no, no.

And then she, like, talks to Craig about it, and she's like, okay, but people are already getting, like, fairly sloshed because there's a ton of booze. And she's probably in, like, fix-it mode. She's already, like, determined to make the best of this and figure this shit out. So let's go figure out this food thing, Craig. Make Craig do something. Craig, go...

Craig, go to Costco. There it is. Take the car. Craig, we're in South. We're in South. Literally go to Costco. Go to Costco. Get the platters. Fill the backseat with the platters. This is hard. And we're done. Yeah, this is a lot. This is, yes. You figured this out. Like, you've arrived at all the same conclusions. Annie's like, My mom has the Costco card. Just get my mom's Costco card. Craig. Craig, just go. Annie's,

Annie's like, just because he called me sweetheart, Craig's going to fucking do it. Like, I'm not finding the food. I don't care that I know where everything is. Like, Craig's in charge. She's like, Craig, get food. Do not pay for it. Make Larry pay for it. Right. Craig's like, got it. Larry doesn't have any money. Craig gets on the phone. He's calling people. He's like, where can I find food? Right. Eventually he finds some like,

catering group that was supposed to cater a church event that canceled so they just bring over a ton of pre-proposal oh that's amazing probably got a discount love that thank you Craig win win okay the party is saved Larry is like thank you so much like I'll take you all to New Orleans after we buy a house for lunch like for taking care of this problem for us Craig is like I'll believe it when I fucking see it Larry just just just give me the check and make sure it's clear mm-hmm

Annie like tries to bring this up with her mom and her mom is after the after the party is over. Annie like tries to bring this up with her mom and her mom is just like your dad's really happy and like he's within the budget we've agreed on. So like whatever I can't help you. And Annie's like Ellen this is a scam and Ellen's like yeah no shit it's a scam but like we can't do anything about it.

Annie and Craig leave, right? Like their weekend is over. They return back to their home. About a month later, Craig is paying off his credit card when he realized he paid for the food. Oh, God. The catering company was supposed to get Larry's card at the event, but apparently Larry promised to bring it by the next day and then obviously did not and could not be reached. Sure.

So Craig's card was the one they charged. Sure, of course. Uh-huh. Craig obviously does not want to tell Annie because Annie explicitly told him not to pay for this food. He also doesn't want to tell Hank because one, that's like your girlfriend's dad. And two, he knows that Hank will just pay for it, which will then stress Annie out more. What? You're Craig now. What should Craig do? Yeah.

I mean, you're telling Annie because this confirms the suspicion that she needs to then act on again, at least try again to be like, hey, I have some evidence now that this guy is no good. Here's what happened to my dad. Maybe that will spark something and...

you know, it's, it's, it's worth it. Cause before she just said, I feel bad. I feel weird about this to the mom. And the mom said, don't worry. It's under budget or it's on budget, blah, blah, blah. Now she can say, Hey, actually this guy is a fucking piece of shit. So, so Craig is like, before I tell Annie, I'm going to text Larry and be like, you didn't fucking pay for this food. Yeah. Right. So he texts Larry guy for you. I wouldn't do that.

He texts Larry and is like, hey, like, I accidentally paid for this food. Like, can you please pay me back? Like, I need to pay off my credit card. Here's my Venmo. Mm-hmm.

Larry's like, sure thing. Can I send you a check? Craig's like, fine. Don't accept checks from those people. He's like, but I need to see a picture of you putting it in the mail. And Larry's like, Larry's like, okay. So Larry sends him a picture of him like putting the check in the mail. Craig then goes to Annie and is like, here's the situation.

I have paid for the food. I have talked to Larry. He theoretically is putting the check in the mail, but like who fucking knows, right? Like he's like, but he comes clean, right? He's like, I don't,

Something's happening here. It's unclear. Annie's like, okay, fine. Jesus Christ. But Craig is like really busy at work this week. And he like completely forgets about the fact that this check is supposed to show up until suddenly Annie comes to him one night and is like, did that check ever show up?

No. This is why Craig needs to sign up for informed delivery on USPS so that he can check and see when things are going to arrive in his mailbox. Not wrong. Not wrong. You need to know the moment it gets scanned, Craig. Not wrong. Craig is like, oh, shit. That didn't show up, right? He's like, huh, interesting. He's like, but what's the drama at the nursery? Like, what's happening? Why are you coming to me and asking me this? And she's like, well, I just got off the phone with my sister. Hmm.

And apparently there has been some big problems at the nursery, which is that Eli, remember Eli, this baby, was supposed to change the temperature on a greenhouse at the nursery before he left for the day. And he forgot. And so some of the orchids have died early. Some of the orchids have bloomed early, right? Like based on whatever their little orchid things are. Oh, that's so sad. So all of these orchids are now like not blooming at the right time and it's going to be hard to sell them, right? Yeah.

And Ellen's like, Hank is so sad. He and Larry, like, apparently went out to a bar to talk about it. And Hank was like, we need to fire Eli. Like, I'm a consultant. This guy made a huge mistake that's going to cost the company a lot of money. Like, he's got to go.

And Larry just like defended, defended, defended Eli. And Hank was like, no, you don't understand. Like he's lost us thousands of dollars. We can't keep employing him. This is not the first time he's like fucked up. And I need another pair of hands. It's like, we have to do this. And Larry's like, well, I disagree.

The next day, Hank shows up and Eli has messed up his special moss creation process. I do not know how because I do not understand how moss is created, but he has. Hank fires him on the spot. He's like, no, I'm not doing this anymore. You've killed my orchids. You've messed up my moss. Get out. Right. Fair. He calls the original hobbyist guy he wanted to hire and hires him for Eli's shop. He's like, I need help. I need a pair of hands in here.

Larry, as you can imagine, did not take this well. Ellen told Annie, who told Craig, that Larry and Hank were not talking to each other at all, that Larry had not been to the nursery in a week, and that things at the house were incredibly tense. Larry is still in the guest house. Yes. Oh, God. He can't still be living at the house.

Annie is like, honestly, like, thank God that this is blowing up. Like, I want Larry out of here. I want dad to not like him. Craig is like, yeah, but like Larry still owes me personally money. Probably a lot of money. Like what? 500 for the food. Okay. Jesus. He texts Larry. Text bounces back. He emails Larry. The email bounces back. God.

What now? You've lost that money. I would give up on that money. That feels like a lost cause. Let's focus on the real issue, which is this man is living in my parents' house. Like we need to, we need to focus back on. Yeah. You make sure this guy gets out. Let's get out of the house and let's cut him out of the business or whatever. He can't, can't run the business himself.

And cross your fingers. I mean, maybe you've stopped caring about this at this point. Cross your fingers that Hank feels a shred of guilt and gives you the money for the food instead. The food money is a lost cause. We really do. You have to make sure this guy is out of your house. Yeah. I'm worried about the parents. Okay. Craig and Annie are taking separate strategies. Oh, no. Annie is like, I'm on the phone with my mom. Right? Like, she's like, I'm on the phone with my mom. I'm laying out what's happened. I'm mad as hell.

Craig has arrived at a problem we discussed earlier, which is, huh, you know, I should probably Google this guy. Oh, God. Are you kidding? No one's Googled this guy? No one Googled him? Wait. I meet someone at a party. I'm Googling when I'm in bed like that night. Same. Same. This is like the first thing you do. Okay. So he's Googling, right? And he's like, Larry, Orchid Consultant. Orchid Consultants, Texas. Orchid Consultant. How many of these guys are there? What is coming up?

is The Orchid Thief by Susan Orlean. Just pages and pages and pages of only The Orchid Thief. Craig is like, no, this is not what I'm looking for. This is not what I want. Finally, like hours later, he ends up on an orchid forum where people are vaguely referring to a Texas Larry.

He clicks into this, and what he finds is that Larry is running a fraudulent orchid consulting firm. He is shipping out orchids that die on arrival from Hank's nursery. He does not actually understand what orchids really need to survive. Larry keeps consulting people that pay him, and then he just provides emotional support and then bails when people need them. The forum doesn't have a lot of posts, but there are some. What a

Craig is like, we're going deeper. Craig keeps digging. Larry isn't just stealing orchids. He's stealing rose bushes. Precious plants. Venus fly traps. All kinds of succulents. He's a plant scammer. He's a plant scammer. Craig is like, Annie. Like, Annie, come here. He saw a hole in the scammer market and was like, I could fill this one. Annie is like still on the phone with her parents.

Right. So he's like, Annie, Annie, come here. Like, look at this shit that I have on my computer. Annie is like relaying it into the phone. Right. Craig can like hear Hank defending like they can hear Hank in the background defending Larry. And they're like, no, Larry is like high key bad. You have to get him out of there. And Annie, Annie is like, you know what my dad will be mad about?

My dad will be mad about him not paying Craig back. Right. Exactly. Exactly. And tell you, that's the that's the evidence that we've needed the whole time. That's the real. Right. This is I feel really bad for Hank. Yeah, I do, because he was just a hobbyist having a nice time. And this is this sucks. I know. So Annie is like, Dad, I know you don't believe that Larry is a scammer, but he stole Craig's money.

And Hank is immediately mad, right? Like he's like, well, I'm going to talk to Larry about this right now. Oh no. Larry's like, you can't call Larry. And he's like, great. Carry me to the guest house on the phone while you talk to Larry. I'd love to hear how this fucking goes. Larry is gone. It's gone. Yeah, it's gone. Larry has fled. That's an empty house.

This short king of East Texas has like disappeared into the night. They always know when the jig is up. I bet this was the final straw, the Eli thing, but also probably the Craig thing when he knew that it was all coming together. He now knew or at that point knew that Craig was the type who was not going to give up.

It kind of is what those scammers do best is they know when to cut and run because they know that like it's getting close to the point where you would Google them or something. The heat was on. Somebody would Google them. Enough people are involved that somebody would Google. Fascinating. Yeah. The heat was around the corner. Obviously, he's gone entirely. They're calling him. They're emailing him. There's like no options left. He is just he has gone. Ghost.

Wow. He's ghosted. How do you feel? How are we feeling? We're almost at the end. I'm worried about... Well, first of all, how's Ellen doing? I feel like we haven't heard from Ellen in a while. I hope Ellen's doing okay. I hope Ellen's okay. Number one, that's my number one thing. My number two thing is...

going to happen to this business? Is this now, is Hank just like now in sort of financial ruin from starting this business that now has a bad reputation in the Orchid community, which is like the thing you don't want, a bad reputation among your buyers, your potential buyers? Like what's happening there? Sure. Yes. And the integrity of consultants everywhere has now been dashed by this, you know, this

by this incident. I just feel bad because I feel like, yeah, we don't really know the money specifics. Like, how is he in the hole? Is the family... Is the house at risk at this point? You know, like, that would be a little scary. And I just feel... I feel bad. It's fun to... It's fun to be like, there's a scammer, but then it's also kind of like they always leave just ruined in their wake. Yeah. Yeah. So...

That is kind of the conclusion to our story is that Hank is like very devastated and embarrassed. Right. And he's also like my first best friend has betrayed me. Right. Like this is terrible. And the daughters are like, no, this is awful. Hank obviously pays Craig back because he's like, it's fucked up that Larry stole your money. Like here it is.

He, like, closes the nursery without talking to anyone in the family and, like, apologizes to his daughters and is like, I'm so sorry about Larry. And they're like, Dad, we don't care. Like, we're sad that you're sad and that your friend left you. And, like, it's okay. And he's like, I'm giving up orchids. And they're like, no, you're not giving up orchids. And so they get him a little orchid as a present. Aww.

That's cute. Their mom is like, God damn it. I thought I was done. Yeah, exactly. The real happy ending though. And that Lindsay like almost guessed earlier, fucking Columbo over here is that, is that Hank has all of this specialty moss that he's learned to grow and

And they can use it for the dollhouse stuff. Oh my god, I'm excited. That's good. Hank and Ellen are like working together. I'm sorry, but how has this dollhouse business been thriving alongside this entire story? The cost of living in Southeast Texas is not high, Lindsay. I'm more focused on a nursery. And meanwhile, Ellen's making bank on tiny chairs. Beautiful little dollhouse things. I bet she does so well.

Oh my God. So everyone is doing really well, but Larry is still at large. No one knows what has happened to him. Lizzie and Bobby, thank you so much for coming on Normal Gossip. It has been a joy to have you here. That was good gossip. Thank you so much. This was great. Thank you for listening to Normal Gossip. If you have a gossip story to share with us, email us at normalgossip at defector.com or you can leave us a voicemail at 2679-GOSSIP.

If you love this podcast and want us to keep making it, become a friend or a friend of a friend at supportnormalgossip.com. You can follow me on all social media at McKinney Kelsey. This podcast is produced by Alex Sujan Laughlin. Defectors Projects Editor is Justin Ellis. Our Editor-in-Chief is Tom Ley. Thanks to the rest of the Defectors staff. Defector Media is a collectively owned subscriber-based media company. I'm Kelsey McKinney. And remember, you did not hear this from me.

When everyone is providing their own tracks, oh my god, it's so easy to cut people out. It really is. That's why we're very diligent. Never, ever, ever want to record in the same room with someone. Gross. Impossible to edit.