Nepo Baby for Trash with Alex Sujong Laughlin
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Hello, and welcome to Normal Gossip. I'm Kelsey McKinney, and in each episode of this podcast, we're going to bring you an anonymous morsel of gossip from the real world. Today is a very exciting day in that I have brought you a special treat, and the special treat is Alex Dujon-Loughlin, my co-creator. Oh my goodness.

It's so exciting to be here in an official capacity. You know her already. She's terrible at taking pills. She's the world's foremost Jack Antonoff scholar. She only likes to drink thimbles of wine and baby Negronis. She's Defector's supervising producer and everyone's favorite. Welcome, Alex. How do you feel about being the guest? I feel a little nervous. It's silly because I've obviously been on the show several times. Yeah.

Last night at dinner, I was like, wait a second. Am I nervous? Am I ready? Oh my God. Do I have a gossip story to share? I don't think you should be nervous because something that the listeners maybe don't know, a little behind the scenes action, if you will, is that we do like essentially a dress rehearsal for every single episode, right? Like we run through the story as a team and make sure that it all makes sense and then all the jokes are good before we record it with the guests.

Usually you are the guest for the run through. So like in some ways you have more experience as a guest than anyone who's ever been here. That's true. I have so much practice. Alex, you've recently returned from Italy on your vacation. Yes. Buongiorno. Buongiorno. Ciao, etc. Arrivederci. Is there anything you would like to share from your Italian vacation? I had the most delicious beverage that has ever been concocted.

Which is called Gator Wine. And it is blue Gatorade mixed with red wine, half and half. No. Drinking Gator Wine next to an infinity pool in Tuscany, overlooking acres and acres of vineyard.

It was perfect. Yeah, if you ever needed proof that Alex and I went to a state school, this is it, right? I'm like, do we appreciate the beautiful Italian countryside? Yes. She says as she pours Gatorade into her four-year-old wine. It was so good. It was the most perfect blend of the flavors blue and red. Alex.

Alex, usually we ask our guests to bring us a gossip. Did you find a gossip to bring to us? The pressure felt high, but I do have a story to share from baby Alex's days as a nameless producer on an anonymous podcast. All of the stories about baby Alex are tragic in their own special way. Baby Alex was trying so hard and no one appreciated her. Yeah.

She was just a little girl boss ahead of her time. Okay, so the story. I have produced many podcasts in my day. Famously. I've been doing this for a decade. And I've gotten to produce shows for all kinds of people, all kinds of characters from all walks of life. Terrifying lead. Yeah.

Yes. Yes, it is. The thing that's fascinating about being a producer is that you are working often with people with really high profiles, but you're working with them in a really close, intimate way that will often show their ugliest sides. You become really familiar with what their burps are.

sound like. You understand their insecurities. You know their quirks. It's a very interesting relationship to have with someone. Yeah. A good example of this is that I feel like in our relationship, you often come to me and are like, hey, you have a new vocal tick. And you're like, here's what it is. And it's like, I didn't even know I had this vocal tick. I was living in bliss.

saying the same things over and over again. And it's like, cool, great, thank you. I love knowing this. Yeah, that is the most benign version of this relationship. But it can get ugly. So...

am going to tell you a story. At night it's less cute. At night it's less cute. Yes, exactly. So I'm going to tell a story about a host I worked with many, many years ago. I will not name the host or the show. Uh-huh. Smart. Safety first. Yeah. We're being safe. This was a show that I was excited to produce. I was interested in working with this host because I really admired them generally. And

I admired their work. And so we got together. We started producing the show. And pretty immediately, I was like, oh, the vibes with this person are crazy. No. Look, famously, I have anxiety, like bad anxiety. They also have anxiety in a way that was completely unmanaged. Oh, no.

No. And also they were like rich and powerful. And so like that combination of like the privilege they have plus their completely unmanaged anxiety was a nightmare for me personally. Yes. I was constantly like prepping for the next mental breakdown. That the host would have. That the host would have. Not even your next mental breakdown. Oh, yeah. Not even mine. I had to keep mine like on lock. Yeah.

My mental breakdowns were not allowed at work. Yeah, no. It was all the host's mental breakdowns. And yeah, and like try to produce this show at the same time, like try to make something good. So it was a lot. I'm like 25. I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like,

am like trying to survive living in Brooklyn. I like, you know, don't have a lot of money, don't have a lot of career stability. Like everything's rough. I'm like routinely having beer for dinner. Yeah. Being in your 20s is bad. So picture baby Alex, you know, incredibly money conscious, incredibly worried about like

Oh, my gosh. Like, how do I how do I make sure that I am able to pay my rent next month? I'm so stressed. And on a recording day, we met up at the studio. Right. And I had packed my lunch because I always packed my lunch because I was poor.

Right. And you needed the money to have beer for dinner. Yes, exactly. So I had packed my lunch and like usually on these recording days, like I wouldn't be at the office. I would like go to wherever the studio was, do the recording and then camp out somewhere for a couple hours and work on the first pass of this episode. So the packed lunch was like kind of crucial to the process. So we get there. I'm in the studio. Not the sigh. I know.

I'm in the studio. I'm waiting. Host is late. Host is late, late, late. Host is always late, but host is especially late today. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, this is so stressful because, of course, also we're paying for the studio by the hour. Yeah, of course.

you know, it matters that they are on time. The host comes in finally, like I want to say 15 or 20 minutes late and they are just in the worst mood that I have ever seen them in. They look like they're on the verge of tears. They are like huffing and puffing and like, like, oh my gosh. Oh, it's just been such a horrible day. I just, this is like something that I am always astounded by in creative careers is that like,

There are often people in creative careers who, like, generally come from money, generally have had a much easier go of it, but who, like, expect their coworkers to do the emotional labor of their friends. And it just is stunning to me. Like, I'm like, yeah, we all have bad days. That's not –

something that needs to come into your workplace unless it is literally affecting your ability to do your job. And then even in that case, this is me being a Virgo, I'm like, get it together. Like, shove it down, bitch. Yes, I'm like –

You just came from the brownstone that you own. Like, you're freaking out because you had to take public transit. Like, come on. What could a banana cost Michael? Ten dollars? Yeah, yeah, exactly. So I'm like, oh, shit. Like, this is about to be really bad. And, you know, the thing about being a producer is that, like, you have to do a lot of emotional labor for the host because, like,

especially if this host is like not regulating their own emotions that's gonna show up on mic and so i was like okay shit like i need to like get this person under control before we record or else it's gonna be really really bad um so i'm like hey how's it going

Like approaching them like a lion or something. Yeah. What's up? And the host is like about to cry and is like, I just, I didn't have breakfast today. And I was like, all right. Okay. I have my lunch in my bag. Would you like that? The host looks at me and like sniffs and goes, what is it?

And I was like, peanut butter sandwich and carrot sticks. It's kid lunch. It's like real baby hours. And they said, okay. And they took it. Oh my gosh.

And so then I had to listen to this person eating my lunch into the microphone because they like, of course, ate it right there. And I have my headphones on and I can hear just like every crunch and lip smack. Peanut butter and carrots is such a noisy thing to eat on mic, right? Like it's like sticky and crunchy. Exactly. So they ate my lunch. We did the recording. They did not pay me back. I had to spend $20 on a stupid lunch.

And it was a really bad day. I hate that that happened to you. I'm so sorry. Yeah. So never produce a podcast for somebody you admire. Except...

I was going to ask you if you had a moral, which is honestly an iconic moral to just go ahead and be like, never do something for someone you admire. That's the secret here. It's like an evolution of like, never meet your idols. Yeah. But I will say that the exception is working with you, of course. Oh my God. Would have been so funny if I was like, and that host was Kelsey. The end. Goodbye. Bye.

Yeah. Imagine me not having eaten lunch. I could never. I must eat all of my meals or I'll die. Alex, thank you for bringing this gossip to us. Yes, of course. I think that you'll find in many ways that it is kind of apt to the story we're going to talk about today. Oh my god, you sound so mischievous.

I do want the listeners to know Alex is coming into this totally blind. Like, usually your fingers are in everything, right? So it's like you look at all the gossip stories that come in. You help us anonymize every story. You're in every run through. Like, by the time we record, usually, I think I could just hand the script to you and you could do it.

right? Like that is how involved you are. And so this is like the only story we've ever done that you know nothing about. Yeah. I feel like kind of guilty. I'm like, oh, I should have helped. But that's not what we're doing here. No, you are helping right now by being the guest. Okay. Are you ready to hear it? I'm ready.

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Small city. We're talking like big trees, nice trails for hiking, not a lot of money for government services. Oh boy. Okay. This is where our friend of a friend, we're going to call her Serena, lives. Okay. Okay.

Serena has many identities. She's a sister. She's a mother to a cute three-year-old. She's a wife, a colleague. She's a sandwich eater, a meal prepper, an adamant composter. But perhaps her most formative and important identity is one that you might recognize. Okay. Is she a podcast producer? No. Our story takes place like...

A decade-ish ago. Okay. Hint. You also had this identity. Oh, no. Is she in a sorority? No. Hint. Sofia Amoroso. Girlboss! Yes!

Can you explain both Sofia Amoroso and What a Girlboss is to anyone who might not remember 2013? Oh, my God. I just, okay, I have to say I bought Girlboss, the book, hashtag Girlboss, for

The week I graduated college. So I remember reading it and just being like, wow, this is the future. So Sophia Amoruso, she started an eBay resale store called Nasty Gal that rapidly took off and became a like unicorn e-commerce fashion website. And she wrote a book called Hashtag Girl Boss.

that was a memoir of her rise to success and power and girlbostom. She, like, I think coined that word. And if she didn't coin it, she popularized it. And it became a shorthand for the 2010s era corporate feminism that led to such favorites as The Wing, Hillary Clinton, Blasier, Fight Song, and the Women's March. Not Fight Song.

Not fight song. Exactly. So this is like the era of like where women had decided that the key to equality was actually just doing everything that men did, but like wearing pink, right? So it was like, we're going to take the worst parts of corporate culture, but we are going to do that. Shrink it and pink it. Exactly.

It was also the era of like wearing a peplum in the club and like wearing business casual on a first date. Yes. There was a lot of like power posing. Oh my God. I did so much power posing. Because you like need to project confidence. Yeah. And it was also like...

The cringy hope of the Obama administration, right? It's ambition, unbridled, and it's for power. Our friend of a friend, Serena, is a girl boss, first and foremost. Oh my god, butt first coffee, messy butt.

Top knot, get shit done. Yes. She spent the first decade of her career in local government. And now she is in somewhat of like a position of power. She is a big boss for the Department of Sanitation.

Do you know what the Department of Sanitation does? It's trash. It's recycling. Is it also cleaning up animals that have been run over on the road? Okay, now you're getting too into the weeds. The important part of the Department of Sanitation is trash. Trash queen. She is queen of trash. She is queen of trash. Okay.

And today, when our story starts, is Monday. Things are not going well for Serena. She has spilled her coffee, her little cat threw up, and she still does not have a costume for her daughter for Halloween. Oh no, not very girl boss of you. And Halloween is only two weeks away and they're supposed to have like a family costume. Oh god. And this is a huge fucking week at work. Because it is.

Garbage Man Appreciation Week. I'm so excited. This is so dumb. Obviously, every week at the Department of Sanitation is Garbage Man Appreciation Week. Do they say garbage man or garbage person? They say garbage man. It's 2012. Wow.

Wow. Okay. The Department of Transportation has like a snack area that's stocked by volunteers where like garbage men can come in and out any week and like get snacks and drinks and stuff. But this one week a year, Garbage Man Appreciation Week, is where they are like the star of the local government, right? Like all the other departments pay attention to what they're doing. Yeah.

School kids come to visit the department. Other departments come to visit. There is programming. It's like a whole thing. Oh my gosh. So Serena is frantic. She gets to the office. She's frazzled. The first thing she sees when she walks in is Beau. Beau is the operations manager. Okay. He's in charge of the office. And he is always mad at everyone for leaving their cups in the sink.

Loading the dishwasher wrong, leaving food at their desks. Do you have any experience with this kind of person? Beau is aggrieved. Just like, yeah. People like this, their basic state is to be aggrieved and they only feel good if they are in that state. That's like their natural neutral zone. Yes. And to Beau's credit, when he's mad, he usually has a right to be, right? Like something is kind of being annoying. Right.

But today she walks in, Beau's brow is furrowed, pouting. Serena's like, what's up, Beau? Happy Garbage Man Appreciation Week. And Beau's like, happy Garbage Man Appreciation Week to you. We got some problems. Oh, no, Beau. And she's like, okay, what's the problem? And he's like, that's the first problem. And he points to a sign.

It's like a flyer, and on the flyer is a picture of a cannoli. The cannoli is surrounded by a frame of weeping emojis. What? At the top of the poster, in a giant font, it says, Stolen cannoli, give it back. What the hell?

Oh no. At the bottom of the poster, it says, whoever stole my cannoli, I was looking forward to it all weekend and you've ruined that. Put it back in the fridge by end of day.

I got some bad news for this person. I don't think the cannoli's coming back. Usually when a cannoli is stolen, it goes into a mouth. The thing is, one, these posters are everywhere. Oh my god. Serena's looking around the office. There are like a hundred pictures of the stolen cannoli. The second thing is that the stolen cannoli is like...

Just the most recent of many things that have been stolen from the office fridge. This is an office with someone who is stealing things. Things are going missing consistently from the office fridge and people are getting mad because their lunches are being stolen. Oh my gosh. As someone who's had their lunch stolen, how do you feel about this situation? Wow, I didn't even make that connection. Okay.

That's a low move. And I think there are a few things more depressing than getting to lunchtime and not having a lunch there for you to eat. Serena is like, oh my God, this is garbage man appreciation week. We cannot have all of these posters of cannolis up as like students and garbage men and other people from the government come in. She's like, Bo, can you send an email to everyone that's like,

Take down these cannoli posters. Stop stealing things. And Bo's like, yeah, of course I can. But Bo still looks upset. And Serena is like, what? And Bo is like, there's something else. Oh, no. And he points to her office. It is 917 a.m. Serena goes into her office and in her office already is Violet.

Violet is a nepo baby. A nepo baby for trash? In that her uncle is the mayor and he got her a job doing social for the city. Oh, hell yeah. So she is 22 years old. She loves making content and she is always filming Serena on the worst day of her life.

Serena is like, what's up, Violet? So good to see you. And Violet's like, I'm here to find a way to make content for us for Garbage Man Appreciation Week. It's so exciting. And Serena's like, could you not do that in my office? Like, could you be anywhere else?

And Violet's like, you seem like really overwhelmed. Is there anything I can do to help? I do think that like as a social media person, she should have had a plan for this weeks ago if this was such a big deal for their department. So it's not making me think highly of Violet right now.

Mm hmm. Serena is like, yeah, you can help. Can you take all those cannoli posters down? And Violet's like, got it. Nice. The problem here is that Violet like kind of reminds Serena of her. Like Serena's like, oh, my God, she's a baby girl boss. Right. She's just trying to make it in the world. It's not her fault that she's so annoying. Right.

Yeah, I relate. Bo comes in to like bring her something she needs. And he's like, what is up with you? Like you're already in such a bad mood. And she's telling him about the cat throwing up. And she's telling him about like her family drama. She's like, I don't have this costume. I'm so stressed.

Halloween is in two weeks and Bo's like okay like what kind of costume are you looking for and Serena's like our family theme is government service oh boy oh fun so like my husband and I are gonna dress as firefighters and we want it to be like a family costume so we need a costume for the baby because we're all going to the local government's big party oh boy I would have suggested minions I think they should have all been minions

Because it's an easy costume. Like, it's just the yellow and the blue overalls and silly glasses and, like, paint your face yellow. Like, easy. That's a great idea. That's not what they're doing. They're doing government service, Alex. But at this moment, Violet returns with the posters. She drops all of them into the trash. And Serena is, like, recycling. And so Violet picks them up out of the trash and puts them in the recycling. Yeah.

And Violet's like, I couldn't help but overhear so sorry, but I heard that you're looking for a costume for a kid in a government service theme. And Serena's like, yes. And Violet's like, I have just the thing. And Serena's like, what is it? And Violet's like, you'll see. And then Serena forgets about this conversation for the rest of the day because she is so busy with her garbage man appreciation programming. Wow, that's menacing. It's now Tuesday. Serena shows up.

No Violet there this morning. Life is good. She gives school kids a tour. She checks on catering for the Garbage Man Appreciation Week luncheon. Around 1 p.m., Violet comes waltzing in. Okay. She brings with her the costume. It is a handmade, knitted, blue Statue of Liberty costume with knitted torch and knitted headdress. What? What?

Oh, my. Holy shit. Can you describe what you're seeing here to the people? Oh, my God. This is okay. This is so much better than I thought it would be. You have sent me a picture of the Statue of Liberty hat knitted with a surprising amount of structure. I'm like really curious to know what's inside of it to make it hold its shape. Okay.

It's a really faithful reproduction. My favorite part is the

The statue's curls, which are also knitted. Oh, my God. That's weird. Serena is presented with this. And, you know, she appreciates craftsmanship. So she's like, oh, my God, it's like it's so beautiful. Like this is so well made. It's gorgeous. But like it's not really what I was looking for. Like we're trying to go as a family to do a government service costume. Yeah.

And Violet's like, yes, this is perfect. The Statue of Liberty is a symbol of freedom. Yeah. And Serena is like, what? And Violet is like, my grandmother-in-law made this for me when I was a kid. Wow. And Serena's like, what is a grandmother-in-law? And Violet is like, oh, my uncle's mother. What? And Serena's like, your uncle, the mayor, the mayor's mother made this costume? And Violet's like, yeah, he loves this costume.

So it's the mayor's mother's costume, which she handmade for Violet when she was a baby. This woman is your boss's boss's mom. And it is not quite the vibe you were looking for for Halloween. What do you do here? I would say no thank you, mainly because it is a delicate knitted garment made by hand that is important to my boss's boss's family. And I don't trust my child to wear it on a night with a lot of candy and running around. Yeah.

And Serena is like, you know, 18 people are asking her questions because it's the second day of Garbage Man Appreciation Week and there's a lot to do. And so Serena is like, thank you so much for the costume. Oh my God. I love it. And she puts it on the extra chair in her office. Oh boy. Serena's like talking to someone, getting updates on something they need to do. And it's like something Violet can help with. So she's like, Violet, did you hear what we're talking about? And Violet is not paying attention because Violet is looking out the window of the door of the office. Okay.

Because today is Tuesday. And Tuesday is everyone's favorite day at the Department of Sanitation. Because remember how I told you that garbage men come into the office to get snacks sometimes? Yeah. There is one garbage man who is so, so, so hot. Oh, hot garbage man? And he always comes to the office on Tuesday. Amazing. Wow. Is he smelly?

Yes. Yes. Does he wear his coveralls unzipped to his waist to reveal a tank top underneath and absolutely jacked arms? Also, yes. Oh my God. Oh my God.

I was going to ask what flavor of hot we're talking about, but I feel like I've already got it. What are you picturing in your mind's eye? I'm picturing like a thin gold chain also. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Kind of like sexy, greasy hair. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. He never looks clean, even when he's taken a shower. Never. And that's his appeal. Everyone in the office is obsessed with this hot garbage man. Wow. And like has been for the entire decade that Serena has worked there, right? Like people love this man. Wow.

But Violet is only just seeing him because usually she's doing social media in other departments. So she's like, who is that? She didn't know about Hot Garbage Man. So she's like, he's one of our guys. And Violet is like, I'll be back. And Serena's like, OK, great. I guess I'll just do all of this by myself. Great. She watches Violet eat lunch with him. Finally, at like 2 p.m., it's time for her to eat lunch. She goes to the fridge. Her lunch is gone. No.

She goes to tell Bo and Bo is like, oh, I'm so sorry. Stuff keeps going missing. Like this week it's worse than any other week. And she's like, I know it sucks. And Bo's like, okay, let's order salads for lunch. And she's like, yes, I agree. So they order salads. She gets every little treat. She gives her tour in the afternoon. She's like, I'm so exhausted. She comes back from her tour and Violet is in her office again. And Violet is like, I have a great idea.

And Serena's like, okay, what is it? And Violet's like, you know how they make those calendars? Oh my God. With like a hot person for every single month. Uh-huh. She's like, calendar, men of the Department of Sanitation. Yes, yes. Garbage man calendar. Serena is like,

What? Why? This is a brilliant idea. She's mad. Serena's like, these men are government servants. Oh my God. This is not frivolous. No, no. This is serious. It's a calling. Is this an episode of Emily in Paris? Because it sounds like an episode of Emily in Paris. All stories about girl bosses sound like an episode of Emily in Paris. Yeah.

Violet is like, if it's so frivolous, why are you dressing up as public servants for Halloween? Yeah, our culture is not a costume. Yeah, and Serena's like, I'm doing a costume for government service to teach children. And Violet's like, unfortunately, I already talked to the head of social media and she thinks this is a great idea. And I showed her a picture of the hot garbage man and she thinks this is the best idea I've ever had. So I'm going to do it and we're going to start photographing tomorrow.

Damn. Nothing like the confidence of an Epo baby. Yeah. Is there anything that you could or should do here? I mean, my only thought is that, like, I also think this is a great idea from a financial point of view, like to sell it as a fundraiser or whatever, but also great social media content for like behind the scenes. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I think it's a great idea. Wednesday and Thursday are chaos. Violet brings all of this camera gear, camera, backdrop, lights. Oh my God. Those giant clips that keep the backdrop up. She has those like big things that reflect the light so that you can like make people look really hot. Right. And she stores all of this stuff in Serena's office because it's expensive and it needs to be protected and Serena's office locks.

And as we have established, there's a bit of a thievery problem in this office. Exactly. Serena's like, I'm losing my mind because all day Wednesday and Thursday, the photo shoot seems to always be happening. Like Violet is always here. Garbage men are constantly arriving. And some of them Serena has like never seen before. So,

So Violet is essentially just like hanging out by the snacks, waiting for garbage men to arrive, and then like quickly determining if they're hot or not, and then bringing the hot ones in to photograph them. Oh my god.

This is taking up so much time. All of these guys are getting their photos taken. And Violet's posting like a few teasers on social media. And the Department of Sanitation is getting so many followers. Like instantly. It is getting thousands of followers. Oh my gosh. Wow. So many.

Serena's giving tours. She's giving presentations. She's talking at luncheons. She is exhausted. No one is complimenting her. Everyone is complimenting Violet. I mean, this is a real microcosm of the girl boss problem. There was a lot of rhetoric about women helping women during this time. And women should help women. People should help people. But

Yeah.

They really got on the nerves of their bosses who had to be more patient and pay their dues. How do I know this? Yeah, I was about to say you're using they when you mean we. Yes, yes. I was one of them. This is me. This is real. This is me. Yeah.

I was her. So I'm seeing the tension. Yeah. And the tension here is really that like everyone is doing a really good job, right? Like Garbage Man Appreciation Week is going off with a bang. Everyone's very happy. The social media is doing great. Like nothing is actually going wrong. Yeah. The only things that like feel bad are internal things, right? Yeah.

Yeah. Have you ever had a week like this where like everything's going really well, but like it's so exhausting and by the end of it, you're like so tired that it's like really easy to make a really sloppy mistake? Yes, all the time. By Friday, Serena feels like she might die. Okay. She tells Beau, she's like, I'm gonna die. Beau's like, you can die over the holiday weekend.

Because the weekend after Garbage Man Appreciation Week is Indigenous People's Day. So they have Monday off. Okay. All day. Violet's finishing up her photos. The very last photos she takes are of the very hot Garbage Man. Okay. The one from Tuesday. Okay.

Violet is a girl who understands pacing. She knows. You don't end on a whimper, right? You end on a bang. Yes. So she's taking these photos. He looks incredible. Serena's like, this is insane. Like, what is happening in my office? Right? At the end, Violet's like, okay, great. Can you, like, help me take this stuff down? And then, like, we can be done for the week. Happy Garbage Man Appreciation Week.

Serena's like, yes, the hot garbage man helps them take everything down, put it back in boxes, put all the camera equipment away. I bet it's so easy for him to carry everything. It's so easy for him with his giant arms used to throwing 50 pound trash bags like they're nothing. Oh, man. Oh, man. Serena is like, good job this week. Like, thank you both so much for all of your work. And they're both like, happy Garbage Man Appreciation Week, Serena. And she's like, happy Garbage Man Appreciation Week to you. Oh, man.

Like it's Christmas. Yeah. They leave. She does not lock the office door behind her. Oh, my God. Wait, like her personal office or the big office? Her personal office. Okay. Good question. Is there anything important in there? All of the camera equipment. Oh, great. Awesome.

I can't wait to see where this goes. Uh-huh. Holiday weekend goes great, right? She has a nice relaxing time. Garbage Man Appreciation Week is over. Monday, she's all relaxed. Tuesday, she comes back. She says hi to Beau. She goes to open her office door and it's unlocked. Oh my God. And she's like, shit. She goes into a panic. She swings open the door. She darts in there. She's like looking around really frantically. All of the camera equipment is still there. Okay. She's like, oh my God. Okay.

Great. But. But. Where is the knitted Statue of Liberty costume with knitted torch and knitted crown? Holy shit. No. Made by the mayor's mother. No. See, I told you. That is too precious of an item to accept into your possession. Oh.

Usually my dog is very independent. She doesn't really want to sit close to me or be very cozy at all. But once it starts to get a little cold, I bring out the quince cashmere blanket and then she wants to sit right next to me. It's the only cashmere blanket that I have because otherwise I wouldn't be able to afford one because usually cashmere costs $1 billion and I don't have that much money.

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The costume is gone. It is nowhere. Oh my god. She's combing her office apart. Nothing. What do you do?

Hmm. My first thought is like, are there cameras in this office? Because it is a government office and it's like, you know, surveillance, America, etc. But I'm also like, you mentioned that there wasn't like a high budget for government services. So yes, there's probably nothing. I would send a frantic email to Beau probably and be like,

Hello. We have a major, major emergency. I need your help. Like, we have to find this costume. Oh, but like, you don't want it to be like, you don't want everybody to know. Like, I don't want Violet to know that we lost it. And so, yeah. So it would be to both specifically. And I would be like, you need to keep this quiet, but I need your help. Oh, God, this is so bad. So.

Serena is like, this is so bad. She's like, what are we going to do? The knitted statue of Liberty Kazoo with knitted crown and knitted torch is lost. At first, she has a thought that's like, okay, right, the front doors of the building are locked, right? So like, who has access to the building, right? And her first thought is like maintenance staff.

But this is the Department of Sanitation. She's like, I'm not suspicious of the maintenance staff. I respect the maintenance staff. And if they were going to steal something, why wouldn't they steal all of this expensive camera equipment? Yes. Yes. So she goes investigation mode. She goes straight to Bo. And she's like, Bo, my costume is stolen. And Bo's like,

What costume? And Serena's like, a knitted Statue of Liberty costume with knitted torch and knitted crown. Oh my god. And Beau's like, you got your daughter a handmade knitted Statue of Liberty costume? Beau, keep up! Exactly. And Serena's like, it's a long story, but the thing you need to know is the mayor's mom made it.

And Bo's like, and it's not in your office. And Serena's like, it's not in my office. And Bo's like, well, did you lock your office? And Serena's like, no. And Bo's like, did you see my memo about leaving personal items in the office during long weekends? You see your office as a storage facility? Jesus Christ. This is not the time, Bo. Oh, my God. Do you think Bo could have taken it?

Like, honestly, everybody's a suspect to me right now. So, like, maybe. Like, I am looking at Beau. I'm looking at the hot garbage man. Like, I'm looking everywhere. I went to this wedding last week and we played traitors at the wedding. Hell yeah. For people who don't know traitors, it's, like, basically mafia. There's, like,

Yeah.

was like my gut instinct. And so I was looking at people and like walking up to people and just saying, are you a traitor? And seeing how they responded immediately because that's all I had. And anyway, I didn't find any of them, but like that is the strategy that I would resort to at this point.

Because like I don't have any other data. I would like as each person came into the office, I would like look very, very hard in their eyes and say, did you take my costume? Serena is like, Beau, if you're trying to teach me some kind of lesson here, like consider it taught. Right. Like I have learned. Did you take this fucking costume?

And he's like, no, I didn't take your costume. I don't even know what you're talking about. Oh, my God. And Serena's like, oh, my God. Okay, this is awful. Like, who could have taken it? And Bo's like, well, who was the last person in your office? And Serena's like, the hot garbage man. Yeah, hot garbage man and Violet. And Bo's like, no. And Serena's like, what do you mean, no? Like, it could be him. And Bo's like...

I don't think it's him. Why? Why? And Serena's like, why? And then she remembers she's like, my lunch also went missing on the day he was here.

She's like, is he stealing all the lunches? Is he stealing the cannoli? Is he stealing everything? We got a sticky fingers hottie in the house. And Bo's like, I think you're wrong on this. And Serena's like, you don't know him at all. And Bo's like, yeah, but I have eyes. What does that mean? And Serena's like, just because this man is hot, does that mean that he doesn't steal things? And Bo's like, I don't know, man. I think it does. What? That's crazy.

Hot people steal things all the time. Look at Winona Ryder. Yes. Serena is like hot people steal things all the time. And she's like, it's also like definitely hip. Like she's like, he was the last one in my office. He saw me not lock the door. He has access to the building. And Bo's like, I just do not think the hot garbage man would do this. Like he has access to so much garbage. He could get whatever he wanted. Yeah.

He's wealthy with garbage. I do like I do wonder. I mean, OK, so like the costume is definitely a marvel of fiber arts. But like not knowing the context of like where it came from and why it's important. I don't know why a random person would want to take it. Right. Serena's like the costume is missing.

She's like, Bo doesn't know. He won't let me accuse the hot garbage man. She's scrambling, right? She's like asking coworkers. She's like, have any of you seen this? And some of them are like, yeah, I saw it on Friday in your office. And she's like, okay, great. One of the random coworkers is like, oh, I did come back into the office on Saturday because I forgot something. And I don't remember it being in your office then.

But did they go in her office? And Serena's like, did you go in my office? And this person's like, no. And Serena's like, did you take my Statue of Liberty costume? And this person's like, no. She's like, this is a nightmare.

She's asking more people about this. But she's kind of like, okay, at least this narrows my window, right? Like at least I have another suspect, this man who came in on Saturday. And I know that it was stolen between like me leaving my office at 6 on Friday and this man coming in at like 10 a.m. on Saturday, right? Yeah. Enough time has passed since she has realized it's gone missing that it's like starting to get scary. Like it reminds me of after the live show we did recently and you lost your keys. And it was like –

the first five to ten minutes we were like okay let's just check let's make sure like let's retrace our steps and then after we had checked everywhere it should have been and it wasn't there we were like

oh my god oh my god I was like I haven't felt terror like this in a while yeah yeah so I can like I I'm feeling that like the terror ramping up the terror is ramping up people are coming in Serena's asking all of them like she's using your traitor method she's asking all of them point blank like did you steal my costume and half the people in this office are like what the

fuck are you talking about, man? Like, I don't know anything about a costume. While she's doing this, Violet comes in. Oh, no. She wants to show everyone the video she has made of the hot garbageman. Okay. Do you tell her that the costume is lost? I mean, I, like, I really, really don't want to, but, like, the fact that...

Serena is asking everybody if they stole it like it's gonna get to her like pretty quickly because that's like the drama of the day so maybe just fess up and be like oh my gosh like the costume is not there I don't know what happened.

Yeah. Serena is like, I'm not going to tell her because she's like, it could still be here. It could be. She's like, it's only been a few hours. She like goes and digs through her office again. Right. But the thing is, the Statue of Liberty costume with matching torch and matching crown is a very distinctive color. So like it should pop in her office. Right. Like she should see it. Yeah. It's not like a small thing to go missing. It's not a set of keys. Yeah.

Yeah, it's not your car key, which you got stuck under the seat of a rental car and then caused all your friends to panic. It's a knitted Statue of Liberty costume. Yeah, it's like, yeah, it should be pretty clear. And I can't imagine her office is very big. No. So all day she looks nothing.

All day the next day, she looks. What? Nothing. She's asking everyone in the office. No one has seen anything. At this point, she's like, I feel like I need to tell Violet. Yeah. Right? Like, it's gotten too many people know. I really can't find it. Like, I think I need to tell her. Yeah. She's like, I have no choice. But then Violet, like, never comes into the office because she, like, is never there. Yeah.

Can you email this kind of thing? Oh my god. No, I would email Violet and say, hey, I really need you to come into the office. So you're not emailing it? No, I'm not putting that in writing, especially not like FOIA-able stuff.

No. There's our journalism girl. Don't let a journalist find out that you lost the knitted Statue of Liberty costume with matching torch and matching crown. Yeah, I could see that going up on Defector so fast. Oh, yeah, we would love to blog that. If this is happening in your local government, it's tips at defector.com. Serena sends an email. Oh, my God. What a dummy.

She falls over herself apologizing. She's like, I'm so sorry. I feel so terrible. And like, she does feel terrible, right? Like this is not, she's not acting. She's like, this is awful. Like, I'm so embarrassed. I'm like horrified that this memento has gone missing on my watch. She waits. She waits. She waits.

That evening, Violet responds. Okay. And she says, like, the memories with her grandmother-in-law are the most important thing anyway. Grandmother-in-law. And Serena is like, oh, my God, did this work?

She's like, oh my God, is it going to be fine? But the last line of the email is, I hate to hear that such a precious family heirloom is gone. Oh my God. And Serena is like, feels like a knife has gone into her heart. She responds to this and she's like, I'm still looking for it. Like, I want you to know I haven't given up on it. I'm going to make sure no volunteers took it. I have like a plan. And Violet responds to this and is like,

Please don't make a huge deal about this and like get people upset. Like I'm sad it's gone. I hope whoever took it can still use it. And then Violet is like, I also totally understand. Like I know that you've been like really overwhelmed with garbage man appreciation week and like you're not really on top of everything right now.

Damn. Okay. Wow. Attitude. Now Serena feels very bad because she's like, one, I have lost costume, beautiful family heirloom. Two, my girl boss future is in jeopardy because the mayor's niece hates me. Three, I have somehow given the baby girl boss the upper hand here. She's like, this is terrible. Okay, but like...

Does Violet not bear some responsibility here for bringing this family heirloom into an office that has a noted thievery problem? Wow. That's what I think. She victim blame. Oh, my God.

Serena goes to drinks that evening. The girl she's meeting for drinks is a former co-worker and work wife. Right. So like someone who worked at the Department of Sanitation with Serena for like years. Okay. And Serena is like, babe.

No one believes me, but I am convinced that the hot garbage man took this costume. Yeah, I mean, if she hasn't talked to him yet, like, he's a weak link. And her friend is like, it's like low-key classist of you to assume it was the garbage man. Like, he has a pure heart. He's braver than the troops. His hands are covered in garbage, so ours don't have to be. She's like, I salute the hot garbage man. Yeah.

He got stinky for our sins. So that we may remain clean. Literally. And Serena is like, I just like, I really think it's him. I know that he's hot, but like, being hot doesn't mean you can't also be bad. Yeah, it's actually like, I feel like a highly correlated pair of traits, hot and bad. Her friend's like,

don't know why you're on the hot garbage man anyway like to me it's clearly Violet what and Serena's like what and her friends like yeah she was like one of the last people in there she also had access like also like who else is stealing a Statue of Liberty costume for a child with knitted torch and knitted crown like she must have taken it I

Yeah, I mean, that is a good point. Like I said earlier, without the context of why this is a special item, it's hard for me to believe that someone would just steal that. What do you do with this theory? I do some hard thinking by myself, probably in bed. You get in your car and you stare out the front window. Yeah, I just, I think, you know, I go into montage mode and I'm like...

what did she gain from this? What is she trying to do? And then I'll like replay every interaction I've had with her for the past year. Serena does this. Amazing. Oh my God. And then she decides like, I'm going to bring this theory to Bo, right? Like, so she delicately, she goes up to Bo the next day and she's like,

Oh my god, I had a drink with our former work wife and she had the craziest idea. Like, she thought that Violet might have taken it. Like, isn't that so crazy? Can you believe that, like, she would come up with something so wild? Okay. And Beau's like...

I think she's right. It makes perfect sense to me. And Serena's like, you are both insane. Like she's like, neither of you are helping me. You're both just like pointing at Violet. She's like, I feel insane. She's like, because I know the window that it disappeared in. Right. And I know like I know that it's gone and I know that I forgot to lock my office and like I have all this information. It's not getting any closer. Yeah. And Bo's like, you know, the window that it was taken in.

And Serena's like, yeah, like I left my office at 6 p.m. and then what's his face said that he came in at 10 a.m. and it wasn't there. And Bo's like, oh, well, let's check the tapes. There are tapes? And Serena's like, we have tapes? What? And Bo's like, yeah, there's one security cam in front of the building.

looking out at the parking lot and one that like looks at the shared space. Bo, this would have been great to know a while ago. Yes. Serena's like, and you couldn't have told me this five days ago.

my god and Bo's like well it would have been really impractical to go through like many days of footage like that would be insane and Serena's like yeah that would be insane unlike me spending many days looking for the Statue of Liberty costume with knitted torch and knitted hat like that would be crazy oh my god okay all right so we have tapes they go into the office they're rolling back the tapes and

Exactly. Main room. They're like nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, right? There's no Statue of Liberty costume to be seen. Okay. They go to the camera of the parking lot. Okay. 6pm. They see Serena leave. They see the garbage man leave. They see Violet leave, right? They all leave. Then there's hours, hours, hours. No, no costume. No costume. 4am, 5am, 6am, 7am, 8am. What's that?

They stop the tapes. It's Violet exiting the building with the Statue of Liberty costume with knitted crown and knitted torch held in her hand. No. Caught blue-handed. Serena is like, oh my god, they were right. The hot garbage man didn't do it. Oh my god. But why would Violet have it? So she took the costume and lied to Serena about it. What?

And Serena's like, I don't know, like, what to do with this information. Yeah. Her head is spinning around in a circle. And she's sitting in front of these tapes, right? And she's like, wait a second. If we have tapes on the main room, couldn't we find out who's stealing the lunches? In theory, unless the person is swallowing the lunches Scooby-Doo style. So Serena's like, I mean –

Violet taking her own costume, like whatever. But like if Violet is taking all of this shit from the office, we have like a real problem. She's like, we need to look at these tapes. And Bo's like, I don't think that's necessary. What? And Serena's like, what do you mean it's not necessary? It's literally all we talk about. She's like, we're looking. And Bo kind of sighs and is like, Serena. Oh my God, it's Bo. It's me. What? Bo? Oh.

He's like, people think that I'm stealing all of their lunches, but I'm not. Like, as part of my job as office managers, if you don't follow the rules, I toss it. Oh, Jesus. Oh, my God. He's like, so if you leave your lunch in there for more than 24 hours, it's being thrown away as it says it will happen on the poster on the fridge. What? What?

What? What about the cannoli? Yeah, exactly. Serena's like, what about the cannoli? And Beau's like, it was in there all weekend. I had to throw it away. Oh my God. Serena's like, what about my lunch? And Beau's like, you left it in there for two days. I had to throw it away. Oh my God. This is about ethics and food safety. Yes, this is about not getting E. coli. Oh my God. What a nightmare. Yeah.

Serena is like, okay, great. Thank you for this knowledge. I love having it. Now I can return to my previous drama, which is the fact that this baby girl boss set me up for failure. What do you do with this information? Okay. So I think like the only thing worse than losing your boss's boss's mother's hand knitted dress

Statue of Liberty costume with knitted torch and knitted crown is accusing your boss's niece of stealing this thing and being wrong. I think that that would be a very, very bad look. And so what I would do is I would grab Violet, have her come in with Bo also because Bo's captain of the tapes apparently. Yeah.

And I would say, Violet, okay, we have some information on the costume. I need your help understanding what I'm seeing. Do you know what's going on here? And then play the tape and see how she responds.

Play the tape in which you can clearly see her leaving with a Statue of Liberty costume with knitted crown and knitted torch. Yes. I need her response. Like, I need, like, a raw response from her to seeing that video. I'm really learning something about you in this recording, which is that you really value, like, an instant response to something and how someone responds on the spot. No, you're right. Yeah. You're right. Because I think that most people are not good liars. And...

I think that's true. Yeah, I think that when they're put on the spot, and maybe I'm just speaking for myself because I'm a bad liar, and when I'm put on the spot, everything is on my face immediately. But I tend to feel that I can read that better than somebody's deliberate manipulation. Yeah, so Serena is going through a lot of the same problems you're going through, right? At first, she's like, we're just totally going to let this go, right? She's like, whatever, who cares? But then she's like,

I've told basically everyone in this office that I lost the mayor's mom's family heirloom. Yeah, that's not good. And like, that seems bad, right? So she's like, to contradict that narrative, I like have to address this in some way. She's like, but I can't like go broad and be like, Violet stole her own costume because like, nepo baby. Yeah. So she's like, you know what I'm going to do is I'm going to email Violet very diplomatically. Okay. Okay.

And she emails Violet and she's like,

Hey, girl, I was so stressed all last week about being able to find this costume and I just felt like I was losing my mind. And so I like begged Bo to check the security cameras like I just had to find the costume. And she's like, and you know what? It looks like you were able to grab it. And I'm so relieved that you have it. And she attaches a screenshot of Violet holding the costume in the parking lot. Wow. That's very diplomatic. Yeah.

We are at the end. Whose side are you on? How do you feel? I feel that I am on Serena's side because we have been in her perspective this whole time and I am rooting for her. Although I do identify with Violet as a, you know, former 20-something girl boss who had too many ideas and felt empowered to enact them even when I probably shouldn't have. So,

I just, I love this for Serena. I think that was a really smart way to handle that. Yeah. When Serena sends this, she's like, I'm back in my stride. I'm on top. Like, I win again. Right? Like, she feels great. Yeah. And then she gets an email back from Violet. Oh, my God. That's like, I'm so glad you were able to get peace about the costume. What? And Serena is like, I love.

hate this girl. Like, I hate this baby girl boss who's making it seem like I have no idea what's going on. Like, she's like, this is truly, like, Gaslight Gatekeep girl boss, right? Like, I feel crazy. Yeah. And then she's like, you know what? But I have to hand it to her. Like, she's girl bossing, right? Like, the Department of Sanitation got 50,000 followers from these posters. We're raising a ton of money from the calendars, right? Like, she's like, well,

She makes me crazy, but I do kind of got to hand it to her. What the fuck? And for Halloween, Serena's daughter wore a Parks Department uniform with a little hat and she looked adorable. Yes. I still I don't understand why Violet did this. Listen, I would love to tell you, but unfortunately, that information was never given to us.

This is a girl who is destined for offices far greater than the Department of Sanitation. Do you have any final thoughts or feelings that you'd like to share? You know, I'm just like really in awe about like how petty this

people can be and the lengths that people are willing to go to emotionally destroy somebody. Yeah. And that's terrifying. And I'm sorry to know this. In the end, you know, what's important, though, is that the hot garbage man remains clean of all sins.

He's innocent. He was always innocent. And some say he is still tossing garbage to this day. Alex, thank you so much for coming on the show. It was a pleasure to have you. Oh my gosh. It was so exciting to be an actual guest. An official guest.

Thank you for listening to Normal Gossip. If you have a gossip story to share with us, email us at normalgossipatdefector.com or you can leave us a voicemail at 2679-GOSSIP. If you love this podcast and want to support us, become a friend or a friend of a friend at supportnormalgossip.com. You can follow the show on Instagram and TikTok at at normal gossip.

You can follow Kelsey on all social media at at McKinneyKelsey. This podcast was produced by Alex Sujong-Loughlin, Ozzy Linus Goodman, and Jay Tolviera. Justin Ellis is Defector's Projects Editor. Jasper Wang and Sean Kuhn are Defector's Business Guys. Alex Sujong-Loughlin is Defector's Supervising Producer. Tom Ley is our Editor-in-Chief.

Abigail Siegel is our intern. Dan McQuaid runs our merch store, which you can find at normalgossip.store. Tara Jacoby designed our show art. Thank you to Rachel Hampton, Brandi Jensen, Sabrina Imbler, Dave McKenna, Chris Thompson, Heather Chen, Ray Ratto, David Roth, Catherine Chu, Jasper Wang, Israel Daramola, and Patrick Redford for your help on this season. Thanks to the rest of the Defector staff.

Defector Media is a collectively owned subscriber-based media company. Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia. Normal Gossip is hosted by Kelsey McKinney. I'm Jessica Ahn, and remember, you did not hear this from me. Radiotopia. From PRX.