MFAs and Other Mistakes with Brittany Luse
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Before we get going today, I wanted to tell you about another Radiotopia podcast you should be listening to, Song Exploder. Song Exploder is an award-winning show about the creative process behind music. Artists break down one of their songs, letting you hear all the different layers in the recording, from instruments to beats to vocals. And most importantly, they talk about why they made the creative choices they did. Song Exploder is not just for music nerds. It's for anybody who cares about creativity or wants to feel inspired to create something.

It's hosted by Rishi Keshe Hiraway, who you might know from the podcast Home Cooking or the West Wing Weekly. The episodes are short, about 20 minutes each, and my recommendation is to start with an episode featuring an artist you love. And then listen to one with an artist you don't know at all. There are over 250 episodes with guests like Fleetwood Mac, Madonna, Solange, Dope.

Billy Eilish, Phoebe Bridgers, FK Twigs, The Killers, Dua Lipa, and John Batiste, and more. Each episode is really a miniature portrait of an artist and how their creative mind works, with the song as the lens we see them through. It's also a great way to discover new music. It's a different kind of experience to get introduced to a song this way, learning how and why each piece and idea came together before you hear the whole song at the end.

Find your favorite episode of Song Exploder and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts or at songexploder.net. Hello and welcome to the season finale of Normal Gossip. I'm Kelsey McKinney and in each episode of this podcast, we're going to bring you an anonymous morsel of gossip from the real world. I am so thrilled to have with me today, Brittany Luce. Brittany,

Brittany is an award-winning journalist, on-air host, and cultural critic. She is currently the host of It's Been a Minute from NPR. Previously, she hosted For Colored Nerds, The Nod, and Sampler podcasts. She's written for Vulture and Harper's Bazaar, among others, and edited for the podcast Planet Money and Not Past It. Luce and her work have been profiled by publications like The New York Times, The New Yorker, and Teen Vogue. Brittany, hello. Hello, Kelsey. It's so good to be back.

It's so good to be reunited. We had so much fun at the DC show. I think listeners may remember you from the plant story, which is exciting for you because that means for them, you are the first guest to ever appear in the feed twice. This is such...

a moment in my life. This is such a career highlight. Oh my God. This is a cool point. This is everything. The best part about that is because I'm the first, I can use that as a bullet point on my resume for the rest of my life. Yeah. For people who may not remember, do you want to start us off with the classic first question and tell me and them what your relationship with gossip is? Oh my gosh. I love gossip. Love it, love it, love it. It's my lifeblood. It gives me something to...

I want to live a long life because I want to grow old with my husband. But also like, I want to live a long life because I'm so nosy that I want to like,

I want to get all the hot Hollywood gossip that is like severely cooled off 34 years from now. You know what I mean? I want to, I want to live long enough to find out what was said in the elevator. Yes. You know what I mean? Between Beyonce and Jay-Z and so much like I'm going to live for that. Like that is the thing that's willing myself. I love that. And I want to grow old with my husband, but like they're almost neck and neck. Those motivations. When you say your husband, are you talking about Ben Affleck?

Okay. That was so weird. Explain, explain. Okay. So I was on a call with somebody who I had never met before, who was a really cool person. And she was like, oh, I was like looking you up before this call. Okay. And she was like, it's, I don't know if you know this, but she was like, if you like Google your name, you know, and you know how in Google you like Google a term and then all sorts of other search suggestions pop up. Yeah.

And very often for many people, it's like spouse, girlfriend, husband, whatever. Because everyone in this whole world is so nosy. I know, exactly. And I'm sitting here like, I mean, I do the same thing. But yeah, so I guess husband is one that- Autopopulates. Yeah. And I had heard that before. I had some awareness of that before. But in the past, I mean, I kind of like it because I'm like, I don't need everybody for my business, right? But in the past, I liked it because the photos that would come up would be of my

old co-host and friend. Oh my God, that's so funny. So it was just like, oh, Brittany Lee's husband, this guy, because there's like a bajillion photos of us together or whatever, because we worked together for so long. Right. And Google's like, people who are a man and a woman standing next to each other, married? Married, exactly. So I kind of was like, cool with that. I was like, oh. But then she's like, I don't know if you know this. She's like, but your husband shows up as Ben Affleck. I was like, what? What?

Since when? And then I Googled it. Brittany Lou's husband. And

It also says that I starred in This Is Me Now. Oh my god, congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. It's one of my biggest accomplishments. I personally spent $20 million on it. That was not Jennifer Lopez. Don't believe the hype. Yeah, you spent $20 million on your accomplished film about how you're a love addict and who you're really in love with is Ben Affleck. And my husband, Ben Affleck, he supported me through the whole thing. Wow, that's so beautiful. Thank you. Thank you.

Something I want to talk about with you is that you and I famously have really, really terrible memories. Like, we can't remember anything. No. I can remember things like if I go to work, like if I'm in the context of like, if I have to prepare to talk to someone. Mm-hmm.

I can recall any, any information that I absorb. Sure. It's like I can, I can put, it's at the tip of my fingertips all the time. Like I'm just like, Oh yes, I can just pull this up. Yeah. And then as soon as it's something like from my real life or, um, gosh, don't let a day or two pass since I had the interview and someone's like, how, how did it go? And I'm like,

What interview? How'd what go? How'd what go? Like, I just have no memory of anything anymore. And I used to not be like that. But now it's like my brain can't hold water. Yeah. We found out, found this out before we started recording because we were talking about your last appearance on the show and you were like, I don't remember that story at all. It was a good one. That was a juicy story. Which I think is beautiful. How does your bad memory play into your gossiping like with friends? Yeah.

Okay. I think that there's a way in which you could look at a poor memory as like a gossip hurdle. Okay. But I actually think of it as like almost like a gossip flavor extender. Because like you get like – A little seasoning. Exactly. Well, you know what it is? It's like if someone tells me something now, I am so like – you know, when I was younger, people were like, oh, don't tell anybody. Yeah. Now I'm like – Tell them what? Exactly.

I literally don't remember what you just said. I cannot remember anything. So it's like kind of helpful, I think, for the person who's telling me the gossip because I just literally don't remember anymore. Yeah. But then also it's kind of cool for me because like, you know, when we come back around and loop back around to the gossip in another few weeks, next month, I get the surprise all over again of hearing the juice again. I'm like, oh my God. They're like, I told you that. And I'm like, you're right. The memory...

searing. Yeah. Something that happens to me often that maybe you will identify with is that like someone will say like, oh, I have this update on a like months old gossip. And I'm like, I'm so sorry. We are close friends. You know that I have no memory of whatever this gossip is that you're talking about. And they're like, okay, okay. And then they tell it again. And like halfway through, I remember what we're talking about, right? I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. I remember this drama about your sister or whatever. But

then that's also kind of fun because they're retelling the gossip from six months ago with the information they have now, right? Which changes the way that you tell something.

Because it's like if the villain has shifted since then, it's like all of a sudden people that we were on their side before are now doing bad stuff all the time. It's so true. And also it causes them to emphasize different points. You know what I mean? And it can really enrich the storytelling experience. And me and my husband, my... Ben Affleck. My husband, Ben Affleck.

Exactly. My number one gossip buddy. Number one gossip partner. Oh my gosh. And it's great too because he also doesn't remember a lot of things either. And so...

Wait, I have to have a – I want to ask a question first before you continue, which is when – how soon in your dating process did you realize that your husband was a good gossiper? Oh, my gosh. Like very, very early in our dating process. Like, I mean, there was one – like at one of our like early sleepovers, we – Sleepovers! Yeah.

Yes. I mean, you know, I'm keeping it chaste. But yes, one of our early sleepovers, we stayed up until like three or four o'clock in the morning gossiping, like gossiping. There was like one point like early in our dating where I realized, oh my gosh, that somebody who I had gone out on.

like two dates with who was really bizarre and just a very strange character. Didn't seem like a safe person to be around. We realized like within our first two dates that this guy had somehow recently attended like a barbecue that my husband had or my then boyfriend or whatever now husband had thrown like right before we started dating. So we had the experience of meeting this guy

very very bizarre person yes where we were just like okay wait because I was trying because you know none of the rest of my friends I was trying to describe I'm like yo I want to date with this guy it was weird it's all like this is fucking wild I was trying to describe to my friends because they were like maybe you're writing him off I'm like no something is off the vibes are not right and then my my husband had actually also met the same person

What a gift to an early relationship to be like, have you both met, like you've both met this person who behaved very strangely and you have no one else to talk to about this bond. Yes. I know. It was like, oh, I mean, we can gossip like forever. Like we have literally no problem gossiping whatsoever forever and ever. I love that. Would you like to hear the gossip that I have prepared for you? Oh, hell yes. Yes. I've been waiting for this. I'm so excited. I'm so excited.

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Okay. Our friend of a friend this week, we're going to call her Mia. Okay. Mia had big dreams of being a writer. And in her dreams, she was like thinking typewriter, thinking stacks of paper, thinking like not stacks of bills that she can't pay with her salary. She's like his girl Friday. Literally. Okay. And she's like, I have all these dreams and she still has them because she's very young, but they are slowly starting to disintegrate. She's 25 years old.

What is your opinion of MFA programs? My degree is in film production. I don't know nothing about nobody's MFA creative writing program. The MFA discourse that I hear people talking about or see people talking about on Twitter all the time.

I watch it. It's like, it's like challengers. Like I'm watching tennis and like, I don't understand tennis either. And that's how I feel. Back and forth. Yeah. But it seems like other people have a lot of opinions about MFA programs. Mia's opinion is that she's pro because she's in an MFA program for fiction. Okay. Yeah.

And she writes like literary work. And the way these MFA programs work is like you go into workshops and you bring in your little story and then everyone reads your story and critiques it. It's like on girls. Exactly. In these workshops, she has made an arch nemesis. Mia's nemesis, his name is Riley. Okay. And Riley only writes science fiction and only brings science fiction to workshops. Okay.

Mm hmm. And his stories are about like aliens, usually. Makes sense. Sci-fi. Okay. Yeah. And one time Mia was like, okay, I have a criticism to give up this story. But like, I don't read a lot of science fiction. So like, take my comment with a grain of salt. And Riley was like, it's not science fiction. It's speculative fiction.

I do like speculative fiction, so I understand. I understand what Riley's saying, but it still sounds like he's being a little nitpicky. Yeah. It's also like, okay, like, I was just trying to give a caveat that maybe you don't have to take this criticism, right? So she's like, she's like, this guy's always making me crazy. And she writes, like, literary fiction. She is not interested in genre, and she, like, wants the glory of, like, prestige land. Mmm.

So they are in a feud. And the feud is mostly one-sided in that Mia dislikes Riley and he doesn't really know or care anything about this. Interesting. Okay. And the worst part about this nemesis is that Riley is hot. Hmm.

That makes things difficult. Yeah. And he's like a specific type of hot, right? Like he's short, but he has like a huge presence in the room. He has like a tongue piercing. He has a great sense of personal style. He's always wearing like thrifted chore jackets. Oh, yeah. So like she can't shit talk him to anyone because everyone else in the workshop is like, I don't know. I think he's cute. That's MFA catnip right there. The man that you just described. Oh, my God.

This is the third year of their three-year MFA program. Mia is like, it's the third year, so I just have to ignore my hot, annoying nemesis for, like, the rest of this year, and then I will be free of him. Oh, my gosh.

But because it's their last year, that also means it's their last book festival in the program. Why are you look so upset? Because I just am thinking, you know what it is? I'm just thinking about like when you say like it's the last year, it's like the last year of their program. He's hot. I'm like, she should hook up with him.

I'm like, maybe they'll get over the feud. I don't know. Okay. But you were going, you were talking about the book festival. Yeah. Right. Less horny. Less horny. So their MFA program is in a city that hosts this book festival. And because the MFA program is like hot and important, the members of the MFA program get to help. Got it.

Gotcha. So they like transport writers to sessions. They help check people in. They wear lanyards. It's like the whole nine yards. Are they paid? No, of course not. This is about the experience. It's a networking opportunity. Right, right, right, right. And because Mia is a third year and because like she's well liked within the program, she knows that she's going to get one of the good jobs.

Oh, okay. Do you want to guess what one of the good jobs might be? I'm guessing that one of the good jobs is like probably escorting a writer somewhere or like being in a green room or something like that. Something like something where you get like FaceTime with like boldface names. Exactly. And every year there's like different levels of writers that are coming in, right? So there's like

you know, normal writers who are doing like one panel. There's like mid-tier writers that are doing like a panel and a talk. And then there is like one headliner. And the headliner is like a fancy writer celebrity. Oh, okay. And very few third years get assigned to the headliner. Do you think an author can be A-list? Oh, um, I mean, I feel like that's like a question that

That depends on where you live. I think me living in New York, I would say...

Yes. Okay. But maybe if I lived someplace else, I would be like, are you kidding me? Yes. It's like the same thing that affects every industry where it's like there are people that everyone in that industry is like, I love them. They're a rock star. And then you talk to like anyone who's normal and they're like, who? Because like the thing is, actual rock stars are famous, not like podcasters and authors and other people. Exactly. Exactly.

So there's a little bit of delusion happening here where they're like the A-list author, right? Okay. Okay. And the past few years, the A-list author has been like people Mia doesn't care about, right? Like they're like genre writers or they're like assholes or they're like just people whose work she doesn't respect. Right, right. But this year, she gets the email and she's assigned to the headliner and

And the headliner is an author who we're going to call Willow. Ooh, okay. Willow. And Willow is a New York Times bestseller. She's had her books turned into movies. She's like, not for normals like Stephanie Meyer. She's like more literary, right? She's like a writer's writer. The kind of writer that it sounds like Mia wants to be. Mm-hmm. Yes. So Mia is thrilled because she's like, I'm assigned to Willow. Willow is like the future I want for myself. Mm-hmm.

And then she rereads the email. And who else is assigned to Willow but her number one enemy, her nemesis, Riley? So what are they going to do? Well, how do you feel about this?

I mean, on one hand, like considering the fact that Riley doesn't really have any awareness of their feud, it seems like he wouldn't want to like go out of his way to like undercut her or something like that. Like that seems like, okay, well maybe it's going to be fine. And also too, if he's like really committed to being like a genre writer, then maybe he's just like excited about the opportunity, but not like super trying to be up in Willow's face anyway. So it could be, Oh,

okay. But I have a feeling that Mia has anxiety about this. Yeah, I think this is a great read. Like, I do think it could be okay. But Mia does not feel that way. Mia feels annoyed, and she feels mad. And she's like, Riley doesn't even like Willow's work. Like he has specifically said in workshops that it is boring and indecipherable. Oh my gosh. So she's like, this is bad, because like, I don't want this guy around when I'm trying to like,

network with this author. She's like, but also I'm not threatened by him.

Like, he's a genre writer. He doesn't care about Willow. Like, I'm excited about Willow. So like, I'm just going to focus on what I need to do. That's the best. That's the best thing she could do right then. You think so? I think so. Yeah. Just focus on focus on like, like just having and don't even put the blinders on to Riley and then just focus on like, just soaking up everything that you can and making a connection with below. That's what I would do. Yeah. It's a good like business move. Yeah. Yeah.

So Mia's doing this. She's like finishing up her work for the year. She's like reading all of Willow's books to prepare for her visit. When it's like almost time for the festival, they get sent an email that's like, here's Willow's schedule. And the schedule is like packed, right? Like it's like she gets in on Monday and then it's like she's doing workshops on Tuesday. She's giving a craft talk on Wednesday. She's doing a panel. She's going to dinner on Thursday. She has a small group reading on Friday is like the big headline event. Yeah.

where she's busy. She is busy, booked and busy. But what this means is that Mia is really going to need to coordinate with Riley. Because there is so much to do. They couldn't like there's no way that like they could just intuitively split it up or that like she could do all of it herself. Right. And there's no way that they could be like, Oh, like you take Monday, I'll take Tuesday, right? Yeah, yeah. Too much. How do you coordinate with Riley?

I would probably just hit him up and say, hey, like, you know, this schedule is a lot. Like, why don't we just like get together, have a coffee or just get on the phone or Zoom or something like that. And then just like assign who's going to do what. Like just break down the week. And yeah, just like get clear on how we're going to do it. So everything is smooth. Because at the end of the day, like the most important, like the number one most important thing is that Willow has a smooth and good experience. Because like.

I think the worst possible thing that could happen is that she has a bad experience and remembers you for that. Like it's kind of neutral if she doesn't really remember you or doesn't care either way. But if it's a bad experience, I'm,

That just seems like a bad situation for you and your future. So that's what I would do. I would just try to like get together, work it out and coordinate. Something I think is interesting is that when you were like, I'm going to coordinate with someone, you were like in-person phone call Zoom meeting. Yeah. Mia is like, I will send an email.

So she's like sending emails. This is like not working because it's like difficult to coordinate something like this if you are sending emails back and forth. Yeah. And people have very different relationships to emails too. Some people like don't even care about reading them. They're just like, if it's urgent, they'll call me.

Exactly. And so eventually Riley is like, this is not working. Like, we can't agree on anything. There's too many emails. Like, I can't keep up with any of this shit. Can you just like meet me at a coffee shop and we can like hash it out? You think? That makes sense to me. Yeah, I think that makes sense. Mia goes and she shows up and he is reading Middlemarch.

which is like one of Mia's favorite books. And so she's annoyed because she, and she's also like, unfortunately, this is a turn on for me. So she's like, this sucks because I'm like, that's one of my favorite books. And also you're supposed to be a genre writer and my enemy. Okay. So he's reading Middlemarch and she's reluctantly turned on. Uh-huh. And because of this, she's like more predisposed to coordinate with him, right? Because she's like,

While he like is reading this book that I like. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So she's like, I'll just let him like take the lead on this conversation. So he's like, okay, the first thing we need to do is pick up Willow from the airport. Yeah. Right. Like that's the first thing. So he's like, Mia, do you have a car? And Mia's like, no, but the program said that we could use like the program's car for the whole week. Okay. And Riley is like, have you ever driven that thing?

And Mia's like, no. And Riley's like, it is like literally a piece of shit. Like I'm going to pick her up from the airport in my car. Yeah.

But Mia's like, that means that I can't help at all if I don't have a car. And he's like, no, I think it's fine for you to use that car to transport her. But I don't think the first impression she should have of this program. Yeah, she should get in the swoopty. Exactly. Do you think this is reasonable? I think this is pretty reasonable. I could see how it's giving Mia anxiety.

Yeah. But because it's like she probably wants to be the first face that that Willow sees when she's coming in from, you know, when she's coming out of the airport. And now she's going to have this like little short king, sexy, short, literary king who

who's kind of going to be a little bit nonchalant about this, right? He's not going to be as pressed as she is. So there's going to be this young hot guy picking her up from the airport in his car that assuming I'm assuming is not a hoopty. No. Right. And he's going to have probably a more relaxed attitude. So I could see how she's like,

I can see how Mia's stressed, but also I think that what Riley is suggesting is fair based upon what it sounds like Mia has shared with him. That's what I'm saying. He's like, okay, so there's like a lot we need to do the day she arrives. He's like, so I'll go like, I'll wait at the airport to make sure that I'm there when she arrives. If you can go and like get all the things for her house, because there's like a list of things that she needs. Sure.

Sure. Because it's like the author stays in like off-campus housing in like, you know, one of those beautiful off-campus houses and her house has to be like fully supplied.

Mia's like, totally. This sounds great. They coordinate the rest of the week. Then she walks out of the coffee shop and she's like, how did this happen? She's like, how did I end up not picking her up from the airport? The day before the author is set to arrive, she has sent an email that has all the things the author needs for the house. It's basically a writer email.

And it's a long list because the author is also bringing her two children. Now, see, the university or the book festival messed up by only giving her that list the day before. I know. They should have given her that list the week before. Yes. So Mia's like, okay, I'll get up early. I'll go get the car that I can use. I'll take it to the grocery store. I'll have plenty of time to get all these things that I need to get. Sure. She goes to get the car and immediately she understands what Riley has been talking about.

Which is that when she goes to get the keys, the guy's like, oh, you're here to get Clifford? And she's like, who's Clifford? And he's like, Clifford... People only name cars when they're raggedy as hell. They only name cars when they're raggedy. They only do that when they're raggedy. Yes. And he's like, oh, Clifford's out back. Here are the keys. Yes.

Clifford is a giant van that is actually three vans welded together. So it's like, it's like the front of it is like really red, which is why they call it like it's a red van in the front. But then in the middle, like the doors have been replaced and those are white. And then like the back is like a black van. Oh, poor baby. That sounds wretched. And also no one has told Mia that Clifford is a stick shift. Yeah.

I don't know. I mean, I'm a great driver. I do not know how to drive stick. And like, is that even something you can learn from like YouTube? That sounds impossible. I did learn to drive stick from a YouTube video. And let me tell you, it took forever and was hard. Yeah.

Mia's like, okay, I'll watch three YouTube videos on my phone. I'll like try and figure it out. So it takes her forever to get to the grocery store because she's just like stalling every time she has to stop. Oh my God. Okay. And then she's gonna have to drive the author and the kids around all week in that. Oh my God. Okay, go ahead. This is bad.

She gets to the grocery store. She's like looking at the list. There's like all this fancy stuff, right? It's like the Fage 5%, the like organic cereal, those big castrovano olives. Oh, yeah. Plain seltzer of a special, like specific brand. Probably polar seltzer. Oh, my gosh. It's so nice. And there's like all of these things that the kids need too, right? Like juice boxes and string cheese and like –

Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Those little mandarin oranges. Delicious. Oh, my God. Yeah. No problem. She gets all these things. She's feeling good. But then at the bottom of the list, there are like more things. And these are not groceries. So they're like things you get from other places. Yeah. They are specifically a litter box with a scoop, soft chicken flavored treats, eco straw litter, and a large cage with at least two levels. Wow.

I'm sorry. I've never even seen a cage with two levels in my life. I mean, granted, I'm not a pet person. I'm allergic to cats. But she's so this author is bringing, I'm guessing, two children and also a cat. She's bringing something. Something. I'm like, is it a lynx? Like, what's going on? Mia is also like, Jesus Christ, like, what is this? So she like goes to a pet store and she's like, I need these things. Like, can you help me get them? And the guy's like, sure. But like, what kind of pet is this for? Yeah.

And Mia's like, I don't know. Like, I assume it's a cat. And the pet store guy is like, cats don't have two-story cages. And she's like, I don't know, dude. Like, please help me. What? She gets all these things. She puts them all into the back of Clifford. But as she's, like, closing the doors, it begins raining. She gets into Clifford, and it turns out that Clifford does not have functioning windshield wipers. What?

Oh my gosh. So she's just like driving a six shift in the rain. She can't see anything. Yes. And she's like running out of time. So she's like, I can't just sit here. Yeah, no, she can't. And like wait. But she's also like, I can't really see out the front window. That's dangerous. When it's raining, which is dangerous. So she sticks her head out the window.

To see. And drives that way all the way home. And drives that way, stalling at every stop sign. I would have given up. I would have been like, Willow, girl, you can come by Clifford. This is the Willow fridge over here. Yeah. She gets here. She like drives the car. She does it. She makes it there. She gets to this beautiful house. She's like unloading all their stuff, right? She's like putting the string cheeses in the fridge. She's like putting all this stuff in the floor. She's like, I did it, right? I got all this stuff here to this beautiful house. There's still 20 minutes before they arrive. I did it.

Time to go home. She opens the front door and there is Willow. Oh my God, Alex, remember the week that you moved to a completely different state and then also at the same time we had a company retreat that was in New York City? Yeah.

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Willow is tall. She's wearing boots. She's wearing sunglasses. She looks incredible. She looks very surprised to see someone in the house that she's staying in. And Riley, who has driven Willow and her children here, is like, oh, this is my friend Mia. And Mia's like, friend? Mia's like, hello, it's so nice to meet you. I'm in the same MFA program as Riley. Like, it's...

Riley. Oh, God. It's a pleasure. Like, I love your work. Her hair is dripping. Like the top of her shirt is wet. Oh, my God. This is not the impression that she wanted to make. No. She's like, I'm so sorry. Like the school car doesn't have windshield wipers. But like all of your stuff is here that you need. Okay. Okay. Okay. But everything's there. Everything's there. Like, I mean, also that shows dedication. It's like, oh, my gosh. Like I got you all these things I had to get.

Yeah, it doesn't have windshield wipers, but I made it work and everything is set for you. That's impressive in its own way. And one thing Mia knows is like how to not overstay her welcome, right? So she's like, welcome to your house. I hope you have a great time. Riley and I are leaving. Goodbye, right? Yeah. And Riley is like, oh my god, what happened to you? She's like, I don't want to talk about it. But you were really right about Clifford. Yeah. Yeah.

The next day, Mia has to go pick up the author to drive her to events. So she drives over. She like parks Clifford in the driveway. She gets out. She knocks on the door. Willow opens the door and out from the front door runs a ferret. Oh my God. I mean, no disrespect. No disrespect to people for their choice of pet.

I'll tell you something right now. Please. A ferret looks like a snake and a rat had a baby. And I don't like that. I don't like that. Something about that is not right to keep in your house. It's not right. But a ferret. Willow. Mia screeches because a ferret has run by her. So she's like, ah! And then Willow from the doorway is like, Mia, no! Ah!

And Mia is like, actually like, oh my God, I have fucked up already. Right? Like she's like, she's like, I'm so sorry. I just like, wasn't expecting to see a ferret. And Willow's like, what? And Mia's like, you said Mia, no. And Willow's like, yeah, the ferret's name is Mia. Oh,

That is, I mean, I know it's just a coincidence, but that is so embarrassing. You use the exact same name as the little ferret that she brought on her trip. Also, Willow, girl, why are you bringing your ferret on the ship? There's no ferret little home that they can stay at, like a ferret kennel or something like that. Yeah. Mia's like, my name is Mia. And then she's like, so me and that ferret have the same name. The same name?

And Willow is like, I think so. Okay. And Willow's like, we have to catch the ferrets. So they're like running around and ferrets have like weird like

spaghetti noodle bodies. Yeah. Like they like kind of hop around in this like unsettling way. Yeah. Unsettling is right. And so person Mia is like chasing ferret Mia and finally like they get it. They're like they have Mia. Oh my God. See they would have had kicked me off the program. I would have been fired because I would have been like I am not helping this lady catch a long little rat. I would have said Willow baby that is I don't want to get in between family business. You're on your own catching this ferret. I'm not here to catch a ferret. Yeah.

So they go inside with a ferret. They close the door behind them. And Mia is like, she can't get over the fact that Willow was like, I think that that's her name. I think that the ferret is also named Mia. And so Mia's like, what do you mean you think its name is Mia? And Willow is like, oh, I'm always getting the ferrets confused. Only the girls can tell them apart. There's more than one ferret. Oh, that's... I'm sorry. I'm sorry. That is...

Now, see, I'm gonna tell you something. I know that Mia, real Mia, is a fan of Willow. I wouldn't be a fan anymore. That would be, that for me, that is a line I cannot cross. That is, you have the kind, I'm sorry, to me, it's a character flaw. If you think, it's a character flaw that you think that you need to be bringing your

two exotic pets with you for a book festival? If you're such a star, if you're such a star and you have all this money... Hire someone. Hire somebody to sit at your house and ferret sit all week. Get a grip. And also, like, why do you have so many ferrets that you're getting them confused? That is... I'm sorry. It's just...

It does not sit right with me. That is a character. The law. And what's the other ferrets name? Actually, what's the other ferrets name? Good question. Mia is like, how many ferrets are there? Oh my God. I assume there's only two. Are there more? And Willow is like, there's just two. Oh, just two. Mia and Thermopolis. I mean, those are cute names. Okay. I do love, I love the princess diaries. Real Mia is like,

I love Willow so much. Like this, she's so relatable. Okay, so wait, Mia's loving this. Mia's loving this. Okay. Mia is not loving the ferrets, but she is loving that Willow named her ferrets after the Muppets Diaries. Okay, that's cute. That's cute. Good for her. I'm glad. You know what? Mia, if you like it, I love it. But yeah, let's go ahead. I love it.

I love that you're like having a ferret that you take to a book festival is a character flaw. And then you're like, if Mia loves it, I love it. Yeah. I mean, if she likes it, I love it. Good for you, girl. This is how I know you're a good friend. Mia's like, okay, great. I'm so glad we've had this huge adventure, but we need to go. Yeah. She can pick her up. And Willow's like, great. I'm ready to go. So she drives Willow to her event, like drops her off. That's all perfectly nice. She only stalls Clifford one time. She's like,

I nailed it. Good for her. When she sees her in the green room later, Willow's like, thank you so much. Like, could you go get my girls and Mia and Thermopolis and bring them to me this afternoon? Wait, bring them to her where? Bring the ferrets with her to an event? So this book festival is taking place in a huge library.

Okay. But I don't think that's an appropriate place for a ferret or two ferrets. So there's like tons of floors and stacks and stuff. And the giant library has a stage with like a theater, like an amphitheater with a stage that's attached to it for like events. Because there's a stage, there's like green rooms behind the stage, right? So that's like where Willow is set up for the week. Like she can keep her stuff there. She can decompress. It's like kind of like her little home away from home, basically. Exactly. So Willow is like, can you get my girls and their ferrets? Yeah.

And bring them to my green room. This just seems so unwise to me. I just, this seems so unwise. Also, like, are rodents allowed in libraries? Because those are rodents. I just want to be clear. Are they allowed around? Are they allowed in libraries? So they, like, check with the head of the convention. And she's like, whatever Willow wants, Willow gets. Those poor boundaries. That is...

I'm sorry. A library is a government building, essentially. Yes. You cannot just bring... I mean... Our taxpayer money is not paying for ferrets to rob around. I mean, I suppose if those were her service animals, that's one thing. But that does not seem to be the case. It seems to me that it doesn't make sense that you can just bring your two unruly little squirrely little rodent pets into a multi-floor library. Like you said, where there's tons of stacks and little crevices for them to... I mean, they could barely find them in the little house.

So there's too many nasty little places that a ferret, two ferrets could hide in a library. Oh, my God. Mia's like, okay. She's like, but I'm not going to get them today. So she's like, Riley, good luck. So Riley goes and gets the girls and he brings the girls and the ferrets to the green room. It all works out fine.

The next day, Mia's like, same thing. I go get Willow in the morning. I take her. I drop her off. I get her coffee. I help her prep. This afternoon, Riley's like, I'm in the middle of doing something else for her. Can you go get her daughters and ferrets and bring them to the green room? And Mia's like, totally. She does it. This goes fine, except for the fact that she stalls Clifford like six times. Okay, but everybody got there okay. And the ferrets and everything, the girls, everything's fine.

On the third day, she does the same thing all again. Gets the girls and the ferrets, takes them to the green room. And the girls are like, we're hungry. And Mia's like, no problem. There's like a snack room. I'll go get you something. Don't worry about it. So she goes to get them snacks.

She gets distracted, right? She's like gabbing. She's gabbing with someone because of like, of course, there's someone to gab with there. Yeah, yeah. She's been there for like 10 minutes when her cell phone starts buzzing like crazy. It is the group chat for the like third years working this program. Yeah. And it says in all caps, Mia is missing. And Mia is like, I am at the snack table. And the group is like, not you, Farrah Mia. Not you, Mia.

That's a nightmare. Oh, my God. Mia's like, what the fuck is she going to do now? How do you find a spirit? What is your strategy here? My strategy, me as a me, not Mia. My strategy is I'll get somebody else to do it. That's my strategy at that point. It's on my hands. You're like, someone needs to stay with the girls. Yeah, I'd be like, I got to stay with the girls.

But I suppose what I would do is get everybody together and probably put two people on every floor or two people in every region of the city.

and have people looking. And also one thing that I would ask the girls is like, is there anything that like Mia really loves or is really afraid of? So it's like maybe those little like chickeny snacks or was it chickeny little snacks or whatever? Yeah. So like maybe like just little, like figuring out how they can like coax people

um like what like yeah just getting some clues so i'll get some clues and then try to split everybody up into like groups or pairs to go looking for the ferrets yes this is like a full out search committee right like they have a strategy they're splitting people up into floors they're sending people to the top floor to work down like they're doing all this stuff they're having to go into panels and like look around on the

ground while people are like talking. Although I feel like if they found a ferret in a crowd like somewhere watching people start screaming. Yeah, exactly. I mean, I would I would start crying and I would leave. I'll get on. I would be at the airport. Yeah. I wouldn't be still at the book festival. They're looking everywhere. Cannot find Mia. No, no.

That means that Mia has to tell Willow, right? When Willow comes back from her event, she's like, I'm so sorry. I left the girls to get them snacks. Wait, all this happened while Willow was at her event? One of her events, yeah. Oh, yeah. So Willow was at one of her... All this happened while Willow was at one of her events. And Mia...

Girl, you know, Mia, girl, I'm trying to root for you. I'm trying to root for you. But if you're put in charge of kids, you really can't turn your back for longer than two seconds because shit breaks loose. But damn, so she has to tell Willow now that all this shit has just gone nuts while she's been gone. She tells Willow and Willow is like, Mia is always doing this. She's always missing. Yeah.

And real Mia is like in her head, right? Like, why would you bring a ferret that's always going on a trip and then make me bring the ferret to the library? But whatever. Skill issue. Okay. She drives Willow and the one left ferret Thermopolis and the two daughters back to their house that afternoon. And then she gets a text from Riley that's like,

I heard you lost the ferret. I don't like that tone. Mia's like, excuse me, you are equally as responsible for losing a ferret because we are both on willow duty. Like, do not blame me for this. I can't do anything. And Riley is like, whoa, sorry. I was like really just messing with you. And she's like, fine. Next day, still no ferret. Jeez. Oh, that's so scary. Okay. Because then, oh gosh, it's like,

if it died you know what I'm saying it could be found like somewhere in the library yes Willow's like doing her class with undergrads or whatever so she's busy and Mia is like also busy because she's like setting up trails of treats that go to like cardboard box traps right it's like it's giving Tom and Jerry it's giving like you poke your head into one room and then like your head comes out the other door across the hall right like

Her eyes are always on the ground. Oh my gosh. She's constantly setting ferret traps. Yeah. Because she's always looking down for the ferret. This is how in the afternoon she accidentally opens the door to the bathroom, which Willow is in. Oh, wow. Okay. So they are getting really close. And she's like, oh my God, I'm so sorry. Shit. Shit.

Okay, okay, okay. But she's, it's, that's embarrassing. She's focused, though, on trying to set these ferret traps. Yes. She's like, this sucks. Like, I can't win. The girls are upset. They want their ferret back. The ferret is nowhere to be found. Like, how are you feeling at this point? I'm stressed out for her. I also like, I'm just like, she's done some things that I wouldn't have done in this situation. Mm-hmm.

I know that her heart is in the right place. And I'm even just the fact that she's setting all these ferret traps. Like that's literally so much more than I would have given that situation at that point. But yeah, I mean, it's clear she's under a lot of pressure and this is obviously not the impression that she wanted to make, but I'm also just like, I just have this sneaking suspicion that this ferret is going to pop up at like the worst possible time. And it's just, it's like, it's like giving me the ickiest feeling. Yeah.

So this is the day before the big keynote event, okay, that she like walks in on Willow in the bathroom. On this same day in the afternoon, the head coordinator of the whole festival comes into the green room, comes to Mia, and it's like, you're the point person on Willow, right? And Mia's like, me and Riley, but yeah, me.

And the coordinator is like, okay, so we've made this gift basket for her that, like, I'm going to put under the couch and then you can, like, pull it out and put it on the table for her while she's on stage, right? So that when she comes back off stage, there's this, like, lovely gift basket there. Mia's like, I love this idea. It's so cute. The coordinator is like, I have learned, though, that Willow is a collector of a very specific thing. Okay. Is it ferrets? Yes.

No. It is. Have you ever seen where they like slice a wine bottle and then it's a cup? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I see a lot of time on TikTok. Yeah. Yeah. So she like collects these from like local wineries or something. That's cute. Yeah. Yeah. It's totally cute. But like the place where this book festival is, there are no local wineries that are like good. So the festival person is like, I don't want to give her one of those like that everyone hates these wineries. That would be insane. And Mia is like, okay. And

And the coordinator's like, but I have these like stickers that are clear. She's like, so I thought that like you could make her one. No. And then put the festival logo on it. I would have just said no to that. I would have said like that is, I mean, that involves like cutting glass, right? I'm in an MFA program for writing. That's I'm thinking about me. I didn't come here to get my MFA in glass blowing, mixed media, visual arts, ceramics, none of that.

So I just would have said absolutely not. That is something that seems like it could injure me and you really, this is actually an inappropriate ask. That's what I would have said. Mia is like, so you're asking me to make a glass out of a wine bottle just to be clear. That's hard. No. And the coordinator is like, yes, thank you so much. And then she leaves. And she leaves. So then

Okay. So what does Mia actually do? Because I'm like, she knows that this is fucked up. She knows this is a badass. Yes. Okay. So she texts Riley and she's like, Riley, we've got a problem. Like the coordinator wants us to make a glass out of a bottle of wine. No. And Riley's like, I've seen those. They're cool. And she's like, I agree that they're cool. But we don't have time to do this. And Riley's like, but you already agreed to it. So we have to. Uh-uh. Riley.

And Mia's like, you know what? I did because she is 25. That is fair. That is fair. I may have made the same decision around that. I'm 36 now. So I would be like, no, I literally was like, that ship has sailed. Do you have any other ideas? Yes. I just would be like, that's not happening. But yes. Okay. So these, yeah, she's 25. Okay. Yeah, I see it. I see it. Right.

So when Willow is on stage for her keynote tomorrow, she'll be there for a whole 90 minutes. So we can do this thing in the green room while she's on stage. Not in the green room. Do it. And then we can just put it right into the basket. Like, it's so convenient. Yeah.

No, y'all, that is not the safest place to do that. That's not a safe place to do that at all. Yeah. The way that they are supposed to do this is that you get like kitchen twine and you dunk, like you soak a lot of kitchen twine in isopropyl alcohol. Right. And then you wrap it really tightly around a wine bottle. Like basically you tourniquet it and make sure it's even. Right.

And then you light the twine on fire. No. Okay. Okay. So they're going to light. They're going to light something that has been soaked in alcohol on fire. Isopropyl alcohol as it's sold in stores typically is going to give you

to 90% solution, right? Okay. That is a higher concentration of alcohol than like what's in, I don't know, like vodka or something like that. And you wouldn't set on fire a Molotov cocktail inside. You know what I'm saying? So what about this is making them think, but you know what though? They're in the creative writing MFA. This is not an engineering school. And to remember that, but this just seems like, I just know at no point for them to be like,

for them though? Did like the alcohol fire indoors glass connection? Well, it's fine because the way it works is you light it on fire and then it's only on fire for like a couple seconds and then you dunk it into really cold ice water and that the tension between like the heat and the water or something makes it slice. Yeah. And then you can sand it down and then it's a glass and they're like easy. Yeah.

I love their optimism. I love their optimism. I will say after watching several videos of people doing this, I do not recommend trying this. No, I've seen lots of videos of people doing this like on TikTok. And I went through a phase. I went through like a 46 minute phase where I was like,

I'm going to try this. I love to go through a 46 minute phase where I'm like, should I buy a rug tufting gun? Oh, I go through that like twice a week. But yeah, that was what I only had to go through that 46 minute phase one time. Before you were like, this is out of my league. It's out of, it's just above my pay grade. It's out of my league. Glass, fire. Also, I don't even really, I don't drink at home and I don't have a wine in my round. Yeah. But okay. So their youthful optimism made them be like, yeah,

We're going to get it done. Yeah. They're like, this will be fine. Mia's like, I'll get the wine bottle and the twine. You get the ice and like the alcohol. The next day is the keynote event. And Willow is like in her suit, right? She like takes her beta blocker. She's like ready to go on stage. Okay.

The crowd is packed. They're like so excited to see her. It's like immediately a frenzy. Mia and Riley are like, this looks great. Wish we could watch it, but we have to go make a fucking glass. Oh my God. They go back there. Riley soaks the twine in the alcohol. When it's soaked, he takes it out. He wraps it around the bottle. They set up their like cold water bowl filled with ice cubes. And he is like, ready? And Mia's like, I'm ready. And then he lights the

twine on fire. I am sick to my stomach. Like, I'm so stressed. I just feel like some glass is going to go into someone's eye. This just seems so...

Okay. It is a flame. And they're like, oh my God, it's working. This is great. Is it? Is it? Is it? As he picks up, he like uses, he has like those gloves that keep your hands from exploding or whatever. Oh, good. I was worried they were doing this barehanded. Okay. No, he's like using that to pick up the wine bottle and like move it to his left into the bowl when he knocks over the bottle of alcohol and it begins spilling all over the desk. And as he's moving...

This bottle, it catches. Oh, my God. So now the entire desk is on fire. Oh, my God. The bottle is in the cold water. So like that part went well. Well, good for them. But the desk is literally on fire. Why did they not close the bottle of alcohol? I'm so stressed. Okay, so the table's on fire. And then what? In a moment of panic, are you fight, flight, freezer fawn?

Okay. If it's a moment of panic like that, if something's on fire, I immediately go to like straight up fire safety. I'm taking a coat, a jacket, couch cushion, whatever. And you have to smother it. That's like the first thing that you do is I'm smothering it and I'm calling the fire department. Yeah, I'm fighting. You're going to fight the fire. I'm going to fight the fire. Mia freezes. She's going, oh shit, oh shit, oh shit, oh shit. Oh, Mia. Like really quietly. And Riley is like, okay, this is bad, right?

Riley is like, but there's a fire extinguisher literally in the hallway. So I'm going to go get it. I'm going to come back. We'll put it out. This is fine. Okay. I mean, you know, Riley was set up to be the enemy in this story. I just want to say he's done a couple of things that are annoying, but

He is good in a crisis. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Riley goes to find the fire extinguisher. Mia's waiting, waiting. He's not back yet. She's like, why is he not back yet? How much time has passed? Has it been 30 seconds? Has it been 15 years? It could be any amount of time. Yeah. She's looking at the fire and she's looking at the fire alarm pull handle. Oh, no. Okay. But she knows Willow is on stage. So she pulls that.

The theater is packed. What do you do? I'm going to give it. I would do a 15 count. I count to 15. If he's not back, I'm pulling the alarm. Because at that point, it's a safety thing, right? Yeah. I love this plan. Very reasonable. Calm in a crisis. Mia is not calm in a crisis. She has no idea how long Riley has been gone. So she sees that handle. She reaches over. She pulls it. Yeah.

But, you know, I mean, I will say, I mean, she's kind of faced, I'd say fire is like so elemental to being like life and death for a human. Yes. That I feel like she just responded the way that any animal would. Yes. The alarm immediately begins to blare. They can like hear on stage, whoever is in conversation with Willow be like, evacuate the premises. Like, we don't know what's going on.

So everyone's evacuating. As the alarm starts to blare, Riley returns with the fire extinguisher. He's like, why the fuck would you pull that? He points the extinguisher at the fire and puts it out. Right as he does this, as the fire is gone, the sprinklers go off in this room. Oh, I forgot about that.

So she is soaked. Again. Again. Oh my god. Okay. Luckily the sprinklers did not go off in the main hall. So like everyone else didn't get wet. Okay. So they evacuated and they just like bring everyone else back in. Okay. Like a fire.

Like a fire drill. Okay. Like a fire drill. It's like elementary school. You're in a hotel and the fire alarm goes off and then you go down there like it's fine. Yeah. You bond a little. You come back inside. It wakes people up because there's some excitement, some flavor. And also, Willow's a pro, obviously. Okay. Willow's a pro. She's taken her beta blockers. She's fine. She goes back on stage. They finish this address. It's like everyone loves it. Oh, great. I was so worried that everybody in there got wet. I was about to freak out. But okay.

While she's on stage, Riley and Mia look at their like wine bottle that's in this like, you know, cold water bath and it has split perfectly. At least there is that. So they like sand the edge. They add the sticker. They put it into the like care box. It looks kind of nice.

Oh my gosh. But you know what though? Fuck that lady from the, from the festival. Cause she fucked that up. Yeah. Why would you ever, ever, ever, ever, ever tell people to do some shit like that? This is her fault. Yes. Also like two 25 year olds who do know we're going to do it. Yeah, exactly. Like, Oh my God. Oh my God. I'm like,

Damn. Okay. Yeah, but fuck that lady. That's her fucking fault. But go ahead. Willow comes off stage. She comes back. She's like, thank you both so much for your help this week. Like you were a doll. She didn't notice this whole desk that had gone up in flames with all of probably all sorts of smoke and char marks all over the walls.

She's like, thank you so much. Like, don't worry about ferret Mia. Like, I know that like she darts around. I don't think that that's either of your faults and I don't think it should have been your problem to begin with. And they're both like, thank you. And then she's like, what the fuck happened in here? So what did they say? And they're like, well, the thing is we were trying to make you this thing. And so they show it to her and she picks it up and she's like, oh my God, this is cool. Is this like a wine glass that's like made out of a wine bottle? She's like, I've never seen this before. Yeah.

What? What does she mean? What does she mean she never seen before? She does not collect them. It was bad intel. What the fuck? Who? So, so they got that information from this person and she got it from God knows where. Probably fucking Wikipedia. Yeah.

Damn. So they went through all this shit. Yeah. Risked their lives and the lives of everybody else in that building for some shit that this woman has never even seen before and don't know anything about. Yeah. Oh my fucking God.

Me and Riley are like, oh, my fucking God. It's just so fucking wild. Oh, my God. They're like, this sucks. Whatever. Willow seems happy with her experience. Like she was like, thank you so much. Like, I like this thing. It's cool. And they were like, I hope that you're just saying that because you know that we lit this room on fire for it. That's very gracious of her. We are at the end. Whose side are you on?

How do you feel? Well, okay. Willow, I now feel neutral on. I don't like this ferret situation. Again, I think it just shows a lack of personal boundaries to bring your exotic pets and also not have them like collared or leashed in some sort of way. So, like I said, I don't like that about Willow. I just...

I appreciate her graciousness and her, at least she has a shred of self-awareness in that she understands that like, you know, they probably shouldn't have been in charge of that anyway. But I'm like, girl, you should never have made that anybody else's responsibility. So that's his own thing. So I'm neutral on Willow in the end. I am still anti-ferret. I'm still anti-ferret. And that has not changed. Mia. Person Mia. Person Mia. I think she did the best sometimes with what she could.

But I actually have to say that, like, I don't know. I know Riley is supposed to be this whole, like, enemy kind of guy. But ultimately, like, I don't know. Like, maybe you should just be his friend. Like, he seems like he's kind of a nice person. He tried to work with you on this when you were being kind of weird about it. Like, you were sending him emails trying to figure out, like, a very complex situation. Yeah.

He's cute. Yeah. I was going to say he's cute. He has a tongue ring. There's a lot of like pluses I feel like with Riley. And I feel like since this is like, you know, their last year, their last book festival, they spent some time together. They were kind of like solving problems together. Mm hmm.

I don't know. To me, I'm like, I'm maybe I'm on team. Like maybe Mia should just hook up with Riley and call it a day. You know what I mean? That's my, that's my opinion. So overall, but yeah, like I said, I think that I'm still anti ferret. I know there's gonna be people who are like, I love animals. Like you're cruel. I'm like,

You know what? This is the thing. It's not the ferrets' fault that it was put into this situation. You're right. It's Willow's fault. Willow's the... It's not even the kids. The kids, they're going to do whatever their mom says. It's also the coordinator of this... That's the... That person's a fucking villain. For being like, whatever Willow wants, Willow gets. Exactly. It's like, no. No. That is so wild. She's a professional. You can tell her no. Do you want the final updates that I have? Wait. There's more? Yes. There's more. Yeah. Yeah.

The final updates I have are, one, when Willow left, she bought windshield wipers for Clifford. Like, she, like, sent money to the department, was like, please fix this fucking car. That...

It's extremely classy. Okay. Okay. That's classy. Okay, Willow. Mia and Riley graduated. They fell out of touch. But the literary world is small. And so, of course, she knew when he published a novel before her and it got good reviews and people read it and she was envious and she was mad at her enemy succeeding. If you were her in that situation, would you shit talk at parties? No. No.

I think in this situation, I'm going to give Mia some tough love. As a person who's been in therapy for 12 years and it's done a lot of good in my life, I think that Mia is projecting onto Riley. And I think that Mia could do well with getting some good friends who can like...

push back on her on that. Yes. And also, I think maybe getting a therapist if she doesn't have one yet, I think would be a really good one. Because I just feel like Riley is kind of like writing his little stories and getting stuff published and finding the fire extinguisher and knowing the tea on Clifford the car. But I just worry that Mia is like stressing herself out over nothing. I have something else to tell you. Good. Good.

So she decides, I'm not going to shit tuck this guy at parties. Like maybe I was a little dramatic, right? I had an enemy for a period of time. But like, we worked really well together in the end. And like, I wish him nothing but the best, but I am secretly envious of him. Right? She was at a party pretty recently. Somebody brings him up. And she's like, Oh my god, he was in my MFA program. And this girl is like, Oh, do you like him? Yeah.

And Mia's like, well, I found him a little annoying, but I don't, like, seriously dislike him. And this girl is like, oh, my God, I hooked up with him last summer. Oh.

And like, it was weird. And Mia's like, say more. And this girl is like, I don't know. The sex was good, actually. But he had this ferret in his room that was so loud and smelly. Shut the fuck up. Are you fucking serious? I never even suspected him. I just figured the ferret was in the library basement. Wait, what happened? He found the ferret in the bathroom of a different floor like 10 minutes after the call went out on the text. Shut up.

And he decided to keep it in the hopes that Willow would offer like a cash reward. But then Willow didn't care about the ferret. And so she didn't offer a cash reward. And by that time, Riley was stuck with the ferret. What? Riley, I was rooting for you. I was rooting for you. You have won me over. But that is like nasty work. A cash prize. Don't you own a car? Do you have no shame? No.

That is terrible. Nia's like, I was right all along. Wow. He was the villain. Wow. Oh, my God. Brittany, thank you so much for coming on the show. It was a delight to have you. It was a delight to be here. I just, I can't believe I didn't see that coming. I can't believe I didn't see that coming. I'm stunned. But yeah, wow. There you go. I mean, I guess they say what? Keep your friends close and your enemies closer. And your ferrets far.

This podcast is produced by Alex Sujong-Loughlin and Ozzy Linus Goodman. Justin Ellis is Defectors Projects Editor. Jasper Wang and Sean Kuhn are Defectors Business Guys. Tom Ley is our Editor-in-Chief. Jay Tolviera is our Associate Producer.

Abigail Siegel is our intern. Dan McQuaid runs our merch store, which you can find at normalgossip.store. Tara Jacoby designed our show art. Thank you to Jasper Wang, Catherine Hsu, Patrick Redford, Israel Daramola, Ray Ratto, Chris Thompson, David Roth, Dave McKenna, and Luis Pais Pumar for your help on this season. And thanks to the rest of the Defector staff. Defector Media is a collectively owned subscriber-based media company, and Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia.

I'm Kelsey McKinney, and please remember, you did not hear this from me. Radiotopia from PRX.