All the World is Rollerblades with Marlena Rodriguez
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Before we get going today, I wanted to tell you about another Radiotopia podcast you should be listening to, Song Exploder. Song Exploder is an award-winning show about the creative process behind music. Artists break down one of their songs, letting you hear all the different layers in the recording, from instruments to beats to vocals. And most importantly, they talk about why they made the creative choices they did. Song Exploder is not just for music nerds. It's for anybody who cares about creativity or wants to feel inspired to create something. It's

It's hosted by Rishi Kesh Hirway, who you might know from the podcast Home Cooking or the West Wing Weekly. The episodes are short, about 20 minutes each, and my recommendation is to start with an episode featuring an artist you love. And then listen to one with an artist you don't know at all. There are over 250 episodes with guests like Fleetwood Mac, Madonna, Solange, Beats,

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Find your favorite episode of Song Exploder and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts or at songexploder.net. Hello and welcome to Normal Gossip. I'm Kelsey McKinney. In each episode of this podcast, we're going to bring you an anonymous morsel of gossip from the real world. I am so excited to have with me today Marlena Rodriguez. Marlena, hi. Hi.

It is a pleasure to have you here. Marlena Rodriguez is a first-generation Cuban-Puerto Rican TV writer and comedian. She's written for Lord Miller's Clone High, Tina Fey's Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt, HBO's Silicon Valley, and much more. Marlena performed stand-up around the world and was named a comic to watch by Comedy Central. Ooh.

and was one of the first Latinas to do a set on late night television. What a beautiful bio. What an honor. So here's a question I have for you, which is, you know, the age old mantra of comedy equals trauma plus time. Does gossip figure into that equation at all for you? Like, does gossip interact with the way that you come up with jokes in any way? Well, I will say that I am full of so much gossip I can't do anything with. Yeah.

Like I'm under so many like showbiz friend DAs. I have never heard of friend DA. So I would like to hear more about this, please. Yeah, you know, friend DA, it's happening in a lot of meetings that I'm having professional meetings. I mean, I do think it brings us together.

You know, where it's like, can I tell you something that nobody's supposed to know in town? Which means everybody knows it in town. Yeah, because you're telling. Yeah. Yeah.

How gossipy is town in your experience, the little town of Los Angeles? Like the most. The most. Everyone says this, but I don't understand. Like you've lived other places. What is it that like makes it more gossipy? I think because there's stakes to it. And it's like, you know, gossip or telling people secrets is

I think they're a currency. Oh, okay. What denominations of currency exist? You know, like there's a $1 bill and a $5 bill. Yeah, probably friend DA is going to be around kind of the $100 mark. Ooh. Cone of silence. I mean, we're talking about a place to live. So that's...

That's going to be a little bit more expensive. Yeah, at least $3,300 a month. Wow. Yeah. I love that. That's rent money. Yeah, it's a subscription. Wow, that's incredible. I didn't even ask you the first traditional question because I got so distracted by having fun. What is your relationship with gossip like? My friends tell me I'm terrible at gossip. Really? Because I do keep secrets.

And so I never have secrets to share. I never really have good gossip to share, but I get fed it and it is so fantastic. When I do have gossip, it's usually with people who know the context already. Okay. Like my, I would say like my toxic trait is workplace gossip. I like

really get off on that trauma bonding. I'm working on it. This is so interesting to me that you're like, I love workplace gossip. I love to collect gossip. And then I'm just holding it inside my body. Like it just belongs to me personally. Yeah, not even in a cool like, I know where they buried the bodies. Like, no, I just love holding on. I just love. I love my little bank lockbox of tidbits.

from everywhere. And then I can like use those things to make good decisions as well. Now I know this about this person and can go in more protected. Right, right, right. Cannot be myself. That's important to not be yourself sometimes. Right.

It's important to be like, not a safe space for being myself. Yeah, I will be the version of me that will survive here. Yeah. Yeah, I gotta be the version of me that remembers paychecks are attached to this. Yes. Do you hold grudges? Yeah, my grudges I will go off on. I love that. My grudges is like, gather round for a story of betrayal. Ha ha ha!

And I'm like, tell the masses.

But it's also straight up like drama. Like, I'm not waiting lightly. Right. But you're saying, I think this is interesting because you're saying that you're kind of like a locked box and that you're very like, you keep people's secrets. But then if the gossip is yours, like if it is a story about you, it is like, hear ye, hear ye, the morning news is out. Absolutely. Absolutely. Wow. I never realized that before. I know.

I'm sorry. I don't know if I should be doing that. Okay. Don't worry about that right now. I'll journal. Don't worry. I was told that you brought me a gossip story. Is that true? I did. You unlocked your box. I did. Just for us. Yeah. Yes. Yes, I did. So I have a family friend.

Who is Gen Z. Okay. Treasure Trove, right? Love that. She is on a soccer team. She's in college. Oh, okay. So this team is like crushing it. Okay. Just absolutely crushing it. So they've been winning extraordinarily. And there's some yik-yak happening. Do you know of this yik-yak? Yik-yak like the app?

Yeah. Wow. I thought that that was dead. But please go ahead. Yik Yak apparently is like anonymous, but it's just like for your college. Yes.

And so there's like shit talking. And it's like, what? About the team? About the team. Is this like the university's team? Or this is like a rec team? This is a university's team. Okay, continue. Thank you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so the shit poster talker is calling them like whores and hoes and sluts. What? But then people are responding being like, what are you talking about? This doesn't make sense. Like, please stop. Like, this is ridiculous.

absolutely called down yeah you really have things that you're working through so then um i guess there's these numbers associated with each post so it'll be like oh it'll be like poster one so you can see like which posts someone has done in theory uh you can see like different members of

Like, one thread. Got it. Okay, okay. So the girls on the team start noticing that, like, poster one... Uh-huh. The shit talker... Yes. Is also the same number of the poster who's responding and defending them. What? Yeah. Okay. I just...

There's nothing I like less than sloppy gameplay. And like, this is sloppy. Like, you need two usernames. That's not that hard. Well, I think it would be impossible. I think they would have to log in to like a different email entirely. Sloppy. So they start noticing this.

And this is like 72 messages of going back and forth with themselves and with the rest of the team. Just yelling at yourself in a mirror. Everyone's like real confused. And then because of like the specifics in the post, I guess there was something like, oh, the goalie doesn't like...

is insecure about her goalie-ing. Like, something that, like, only someone on the team... Team would know. Would know. Uh-oh. Oh, no. And then they, like, they put it together, and then they're like, oh, yeah, that girl got kicked off the team last semester. Oh, we've got a little resentment. Exactly. And apparently...

A friend of hers tells them that she was like all coked up. Quotations. I'm holding up some quotation marks. Okay. In like a cocaine rage.

I just did this whole thing. If you're doing coke, log off. Go to a club. Like, why are you coked up on your computer? Like, please. Have fun. Could you imagine? You're just blowing money. Listen, I don't believe this cocaine thing. No. I think that she was like...

I think that she like OD'd on like sour straws. It's honestly relatable to me personally, but yes. I agree. With like a side of Celsius drink. Yeah, she had four Celsius's and went crazy. Yeah, right. So that was like the big reveal. Why? The responding? Right, we forgot the detail of like...

Okay, imagine you're coked up, you go on Reddit, and then you respond to your posts. It's like, I don't know a lot about

college soccer teams but you don't get to stay on a soccer team at a high level because like you defend the other people on the team you're there because you're a good soccer player so my assumption is if she got kicked off the team no amount of defending her ex-teammates against her own posts is going to convince them to put her back on the team yeah yeah

Okay. Do you want to hear the gossip that I have for you? Be gone. Be gone.

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My first question for you before we like really get into it is you live and work in LA. Have you ever run into someone that knows you, but you aren't sure that you know them? And you don't, if you do, you don't know where from? Yeah.

How does that usually go for you? You gotta go with it. Obviously, you gotta go with it. The end, remembering to say, nice to see you. Uh-huh, uh-huh. Washington, D.C.ism. Instead of, nice to meet you. The worst is when you can't even pull a name. You're hoping someone gets introduced to them during your conversation. Have you met? Yeah.

Or you're with someone who it's like, so this is my friend. Take it away, friend. Yes. Okay. Our friend of a friend today, we're going to call her Sadie.

And Sadie lives in like an industry town. Her industry is marketing. So it's like, it's a big industry, but at her level, it's kind of small. Like she knows everyone. Everyone's kind of poorly paid. People care so much. So there's always these like happy hours, you know, where it's like somebody has a new brand launch coming out or somebody's starting a new business or whatever. And they're like, Sadie, you're invited to our little happy hour. And Sadie always goes because there's usually free wine.

So these are professional, these are like companies. Okay, okay, got it. Yes. Sadie has just launched her own company. And her company is like marketing for women-owned businesses in this city. So it's like really niche, pretty specific. Okay. She's feeling super excited about her new company. And so she's like, I'm going to all of these networking events because I need to like, I need to network, right? I need to tell people, oh, I have this company. Do you need help? Do you have clients? Do you need any of this stuff or whatever? Yeah.

So she goes, she has her wine. She's gabbing it up with people when this girl comes up to her and is like, oh my God, Sadie. Oh no. And Sadie turns and she's facing this girl who is like beautiful, wearing an expensive silk blouse. Inside, she feels like immediate aversion to this girl, right? Like she's like, oh no. But she's like, I have no idea who she is.

I mean, I do not relate. I mean, if that person walked up to me, I'd be like, um, okay. Someone from the high class of the Hunger Games city knows who I am. Meta-wizard. Yeah, like...

Go on. Sadie is like, I would like preen for this woman and be like, oh, it's so good to see you. But I like inside, it feels bad, right? Like there's something about it that is like giving me a weird feeling. How do you play this? Well, I wouldn't have this weird feeling. Um...

Yeah, I think I just go with it. I think I just go with it really hard. How have you been? Yes. It's been so long. Yes. Sadie is like, shove this feeling down. It's so good to see you. Like, it's been so long. They hug. They're gabbing. The whole time she's like, who is this?

Like, who is this woman? Yeah, that is when I, now that I think about it, that is when the feeling comes in. Oh no, we're actually talking? Mm-hmm. Oh man, I have no questions. I have no questions. She's doing questions the way that's like trying to figure out who someone is, right? Where she's like, how have things been? Like, how's your job? Right? Yeah. Yeah.

What's new and specifically where? Yeah. When was the last time we saw each other and also where? Do we have pictures? When's the last time we took a picture together? Yeah.

Eventually, Sadie does this for like 20 minutes. She gets nowhere. And eventually she's like, I'm so sorry, but like, I cannot place you at all. Like, I'm having a lovely conversation. It is so good to see you. But like, please remind me how we know each other. And this girl is like, oh, I'm Catherine. And Sadie is like, nothing, right? Like this is ringing no bells for her at all.

And she's like, oh. And Catherine's like, you remember, our dads know each other. Sadie's like, what? Like, in her head. She's like, I still can't place this girl. And then Catherine says her last name. And suddenly, Sadie is like, oh, shit. This girl is my enemy. Wait. What? How irresponsible. What irresponsible grudging.

not gonna know I mean listen unless this is some sort of eternal sunshine situation which like I wit I kind of wish I could eternal sunshine my enemies that would be dope

You would live in bliss. Yeah. How do you feel at this point? I think I'm proud of the other person for not, it seems like she's gone with the flow and not taking it personally. Okay. And I think that's great. I think that's great. Okay. To understand this deep enemy rivalry, we have to go back decades. Two households.

Oh, shit. Oh, shit. Oh, oh, okay. Oh, oh, okay.

Okay. George, single father of two. Sadie and her sister. He works like a regular degular job, right? Like wears a button down to work kind of man. If you ask Sadie what he did, she would be like, that's not my business. No one knows what their dad does. That's not our business. We don't need to know that. Yeah. This is the 90s. I want you to picture like

Dennis Quaid in Parent Trap. Like, denim on the weekends, drinking wine at night, floppy haircut. Okay. George moved to this neighborhood a couple of months ago, and he's, like, still getting settled in, but he, like, doesn't have friends because he has his two daughters to take care of, and he's busy. When he sees a flyer for the Shakespeare in the Park auditions in this town, and George is like, I was a thespian in high school, but I, like, haven't acted since.

He would like love to go. How do you prepare for your audition? I mean, my daughters are going to help me learn lines. My daughters are now my actors assistants and coaches. Yes. George is like, congratulations to both my daughters on their new executive producer roles. You are going to help me pick a monologue. We're going to run scenes. He's like, this is our hobby. Yeah.

And his daughters, to their credit, are like, great. This is fun. Like, we have nothing to do. We're having fun doing this with our dad. Sure. What a cute bonding activity. Yeah. So for two weeks, they're like running their lines. His daughters are like, you've got this, right? Like, we believe in you.

So George goes to the audition and he has to take his daughters with him because he like doesn't have a sitter. So he like gives them books and is like, go sit at this table. There are no other kids there. So he feels like self-conscious and nervous because he has no friends in this town. But his daughters are like, you've got this. We believe in you. What great daughters. I know. He gets up there. He does his monologue. It's from Act 1, Scene 2 of Richard III.

I'm not familiar. Yeah, I don't think you should be. You caught me. I don't think you should be. The thing is, part of why he chooses this is that George is like, this is not Hamlet. It's not Romeo and Juliet. It's none of the big plays, right? It's not the play that shouldn't be named. It's Richard III. It's like kind of a minor, more minor play. He's like, this will prove me as a real Shakespeare head.

I understand the thinking. Yeah. He does his monologue and he's like, I'm not as bad as I thought. Right? Like, I think I did pretty well. And he's like proud of himself. And his daughters are like, you did it. But the guy who goes after him is named Dennis. And Dennis has like one of those like 90s mullets. Right? Like professional in the front, party in the back. Yeah. Yeah.

acid-washed jeans, tucked in shirt, chewing gum. Oh my God, is he cool? He's cool. He does a monologue from Measure for Measure, which is apparently a problem play for Shakespeare, which to my understanding means it's like an A24 era Shakespeare, like not a tragedy or a comedy. Yeah.

We're just here to watch stuff kind of happen. Yes. Okay, great. Dennis does his monologue and George is like, oh shit, this guy is cool, right? Like everyone in the Shakespeare group is like clearly in love with him in a like platonic way. Even his own daughters are like enraptured by Dennis's soliloquy.

I mean, yeah, cool wins over talent most of the time. What do you mean? Well, come on. I feel like showbiz at every level is just like, I picked this person because I really want to be friends with them. Yes. Like, truly, that's showbiz, baby. Yes. Yes.

Exactly. Have you ever had a situation like this personally where you're like, I think that person is so cool and I want to be their friend? Yes. And then I learned very quickly, no, don't get in there. The persona they're doing is who they are and that's not, that's a bad sign. How do you think George should go about trying to befriend Dennis? Yeah.

Oh, well, I mean, getting cast in the play would be automatic, but this is some dad friend beginning. So it's like, how about some play dates, my man? Yes. George is like sidling up to Dennis like, man, I love those problem plays.

They have this like dad rapport. You know how dads are sometimes like have this tone that's like, man, everyone's an idiot except for us. We're two best friends. Absolutely. This works immediately. He's like, I have a great rapport. This is great for me. Things are going my way. After the auditions, the director is like, we'll let everyone know. Like we're posting the roles at the end of the week. You can come back and see. This year we're going to do Much Ado About Nothing.

And George is like, I want to do it. That's real fun. It's fun. He's like, I want to do it. They perform in the park like several weekends in a row during the summer. Like it's it would be so fun for him. Are we talking and this is like not major town. This is not a town. OK, OK. Smaller town. Right. Like this is like a thing that this town does. This is not big time.

Good for this town. I know, it's cute. So George drives his daughters home and he puts them to bed and he's like, okay, next weekend we'll know. And so all week they're nervous. They're nervous all week in this family. Finally, they get to go to the library and there's his name. George has been cast. Hey! We're so happy for him. He's like not the main guy, but...

But I guess in Much Ado About Nothing, there's like a main guy who is tragic and a main guy who does all the comedic lines. And George has been cast as the comedic guy. So he's like, this is huge for me.

Oh, I'm so happy for him. Yeah. It's nice, right? I'm also imagining listeners right now are like, they have a name. I'm sure they do, but listen, there's only so many names I can learn for these stories. Oh, the comedy guy and the tragedy guy? Grow up. No, I went to state school. Okay.

This is great. He's so happy. He's like, I get to be in this play. This is also good because it means that I get to hang out with my new potential best friend, Dennis. All like spring, he's going to rehearsals. He learns his lines. His daughters help him. Everyone's happy. He learns that Dennis is divorced and he has two daughters too, but they only come sometimes. Okay. One of those daughters is Catherine. What is that face? Okay.

I just, trouble's coming. So Dennis and George are like your idea exactly. Like what if we did like a double date basically with our daughters? Like we go on a play date, we take our daughters, we like go do whatever. And Dennis is like, I have a great idea. There's like a roller skating rink nearby. We can like all go there.

And so George is like, great. That sounds great. So they all go. Everyone roller skates. Everyone has a good time. Whenever Dennis's daughters are in town, they do shit like this, right? Like they go bowling. They go to the water park, whatever. It's their like cool summer friendship. Not only is he cool, he's a fun dad. He's a fun dad. Yeah.

Okay. How are you feeling? Jealous. Of the fun dad? Yeah. My dad was a big errands guy. Oh, yeah. My dad was like a big like, all right, I've got you for the weekend. Let's make you sit in a lobby while I take meetings. Yeah.

Oh my God. Activities. Get in there. Okay, great. Activities. It's great. Everyone's having the best time. When Much Ado About Nothing premieres in the summer, it is packed.

George is like, this is great. Like, I'm having the best time. And this is like in the window for Shakespeare in America. Because it is after Leonardo DiCaprio's Romeo and Juliet in 93. And in 93 was also Denzel Washington's Much Ado About Nothing. Oh. And it is before Shakespeare in Love in 1998. So it's like prime Shakespeare time. Yeah, we were...

In it. We were horny for Shakespeare for like five years. What happened there? Pre 9-11, you know what I mean? Hollywood is popping off. Pre 9-11, we had the time to be like, okay, and so what did that mean? I kind of understand. Yeah. So things are going well for the Shakespeare troupe, right? Because usually Shakespeare is like,

You know, it's like most of the people who are going to attend are like old white people. And there's not a lot of like youth interested in the Shakespeare. But for this period of time, this Shakespeare troupe is thriving. People are coming. They're excited. The next summer they do Hamlet. Okay. Oh, wow. Okay. We're jumping in time? We're jumping in time. Oh my God. Okay. The next summer we have some drama because George is cast as Hamlet. Okay.

And not Dennis. Oh my god. George can do drama too? He can do it all. George. This is bad though because Dennis is cast as Claudius which is not the main role. And things become tense between George and Dennis like immediately. Why are you nodding? Because cool people can't handle not being the coolest or doing the coolest. They can't handle it. Mm-hmm.

They freak out. So Dennis is like kind of panicking. Like he stops inviting George to drinks. He stops backing George's ideas in the meetings. And he's like jealous, clearly. It's so sad. What do you do about this? Well, they're still in the play together. So it's like there's definitely that energy. There's going to be that like almost like X energy. Yeah.

Yes. Oh, okay. George is like complaining to his daughters about this, right? Like he's driving them around and he's like, this sucks. Like you have to learn to live with your jealousy. Like that's part of life is like being able to move on from being jealous of someone. His daughters are like staring out the window. They're like, dad, it's going to be okay. But he's like heartbroken because his friend is being mean to him. George tries. He like invites Dennis and his daughters to bowl. They go, things are weird. Yeah.

All spring, things are weird. They're rough between Dennis and George. It's uncomfortable because George is like, I don't want to fight Dennis. I'm just trying to be Hamlet. And he is a good Hamlet. That makes it worse. That makes it worse. That's going to really upset Dennis. Yes. And the better he gets at it, the weirder the fights Dennis starts picking are. So he's like, why can't Hamlet be set in a modern office space?

And everyone's like, what? And he's like, why does it need to be trimmed down for public audiences? Like, we should just do the four and a half hour play. And everyone's like, Dennis, what? They're like, one, these are like directorial questions, which is not your job. And two, it's expensive to set things in like a modern office. This is like a local Shakespeare troupe. We don't have this kind of money. Yeah.

People love doing things that are not their job. They do. Dennis, like, cannot, right? Like, he has overnight become, like, an ideas guy. And this goes on, like, the whole summer. Dennis is a monster.

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It is so relatable to me. I would like never check my bank account unless I really, really have to because it gives me so much anxiety. And is there a reason that you check your bank account now? Yeah, I get these awesome emails from Rocket Money that are like, hey, FYI, this is how much you spent last week. And it feels like a gentle person holding my hand as I go to my bank account. Oh, yeah.

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Hamlet goes on stage and everyone loves it. Like they do a great job. The city is happy. Dennis is miserable. Oh no. We go through another fall, another winter. This brings us to the lead up to the dreaded summer of 1998. Okay. Do you remember anything about 1998? Well, no. Is that... I was going to say like...

The boy bands are getting started. Britney Spears. But that might be... It is? Okay. It's like right before that. Okay. So it's like, That Boy Is Mine is on the radio. Sex and the City debuts on HBO. Everyone has like AOL dial-up and Nokia flip phones. Good old days. And the community theater is embroiled in a fight. And the fight is...

Do you do Romeo and Juliet? The problem for the community theater is that they're like, Romeo and Juliet is a play about teenagers. Right. And like, we have two teenagers in our little like Shakespeare thing, but they're so precocious and they're so annoying. So like, we don't want to put them in the lead roles because then we have to deal with them all the time. But if we put adults in Romeo and Juliet, then you have like a pin 15 problem. Yeah. This year, George is like, what?

Whatever play we're doing, I'm not acting. He's like, I am going to produce. Oh. You like this. I really like George. He's doing his best. Oh, no. Dennis is going to be like, what's wrong with the Pen15 situation? That's literally what's happening. And also, every time someone brings up Romeo and Juliet, Dennis is like, I have the best idea that's ever existed. What if...

We did it on rollerblades. This is not, this is not Romeo and Juliet little mermaid on Broadway edition. He's like, we could just do the whole play on rollerblades. Like it would be sick.

I will say rollerblades were fucking huge in the 90s. They were. Okay. And Dennis is, like, the kind of guy who, like, rollerblades to work, right? Like, he, like, carries his rollerblades, like, with the strings tied together, like, over his shoulder. Oh, no. And everyone is like, Dennis, like, we understand where you're coming from, but, like, that would require everyone to, like, learn to rollerblade on a stage, right?

And that is expensive and difficult. Like this is a very insane thing to be pushing. Yeah.

At every meeting, Dennis is like, what about rollerblades? Like you guys never consider my idea, which is rollerblades. This is unaffordable. This is an insurance nightmare. Yes. Yes. The community theater is like the last thing we need is to do Romeo and Juliet with like a 35 year old Romeo who then breaks his arm because he was on rollerblades. Right. Like we don't need that.

George, because he's a producer, gets like more of a say now in what play they do. So he's like talking to people that work there. They're all kind of like trying to figure it out. And they're like, okay, what if we came to like a nice, happy medium, which is we do a comedy and we do it in like a more modern version, not rollerblades, but like a little more modernized. And they're like, this is a great idea, right? They're all patting each other on the back. They're like, we killed it. They decide to do Taming of the Shrew, but modernized. Yeah.

Okay. They're like, we can make this fun. We can make it modern. Dennis is like, I love this idea. What if they were all on rollerblades? Listen, I'll give them Heelys because that would be modern, but this is out of control. Everyone is like, Dennis, no rollerblades.

They do the casting. Because George is producing, he like gets Dennis a good role, even though everyone else is like, Dennis is being a nightmare. Like, we don't want him to have a good role. He keeps talking about rollerblades. And George is like, but he is a good actor.

He gets done as a role. They're like combining characters to make the script work easier. George has all these jobs now. You know, he's like trying out new kinds of lighting to see if they could work in the park. He also has a job where he like writes a newsletter for the group that goes out every month. And this is in the 90s. So like it's a physical newsletter, right? Like it folds up and goes in the mail. Is it serious? Yes.

One of George's jobs as the producer is to call the city and like tell them which dates and what play they're going to do in the city park. So he calls the city just a few months later and he's like, hey, like I'm just calling like I want to nail down the dates and I also want to talk about these new lights that I want to use and like make sure they're not going to disrupt the wildlife or whatever. And the city is like, I'm so sorry, but the amphitheater is booked this year. Oh, yeah.

Okay. And George is like, what? And they're like, yeah, it's booked. And he's like, what do you mean it's booked? Like the Shakespeare troupe has had this venue, like the amphitheater in this big park every year for decades. And the city is like, I don't know what to tell you. A rollerblade convention book. What do you do? How do you find out what is happening here? The problem is George is clearly still trying to salvage

a friendship with Dennis. And so he's not going to see the criminal right in front of him. George calls the city and he's like, can you tell me who has booked the amphitheater? And they're like, oh yeah, sure. It's booked by a Shakespeare group. And he's like, great. That's me. I'm the Shakespeare group.

And the city is like, oh, okay, like, what's your group's name? And he's like, oh, our group's is, like, all the world's our stage. And the city worker is like, no, the reservation I have is for another Shakespeare group. All the world is rollerblades? George is like, shit, like, what is going on here? So he calls the, like, woman. You know how every group has, like, one person who has all the institutional knowledge? Yes, exactly.

This woman, her name is Vivian. She's like 80 years old. She's been in the Shakespeare troupe for 30 years. So George is like, I'll call Vivian. He calls Vivian. He's like, Vivian, what other Shakespeare troupes are nearby, like near our little town? And Vivian is like, what? None. Like this town can barely support our one Shakespeare troupe. There are no other Shakespeare troupes.

And so George calls the city back and he's like, what name do you have? Like, what Shakespeare group? And the city is like, yeah, I have a reservation right here for the amphitheater for like these dates. And George is like, who? And the city is like, it's called Merchants of Dennis.

Oh, my God, Denise. What the hell? What kind of pun? Oh, my God. Dennis is losing it. Yes. And George is like, okay, this clearly seems to be Dennis. Like, there's not a lot of, like, wiggle room on this guess. He's, like, mad because he's like, I...

And theoretically friends with Dennis. I have like kind of fought my own troop to get him this like good role in our play. He's been like coming to rehearsals for months now.

What do you do here? Like, do you confront him? What is your... What's your move? Oh, first of all, I'm going to absolute. This is where my work gossip's kicking in. I'm going to absolutely everybody. We are making calls. We are writing letters. We are making... We are just getting everyone on our side, making sure... Mm-hmm.

Just because, wow, the wonderful feeling of being validated when someone is being so terrible. My daughters are going to hear about this. Yes. George goes home. He tells his daughters. He calls the director. He tells the director. The director's like, that's so weird. Like, maybe he just reserved it for us.

And George is like, I don't think so. And the director's like, okay, well, like, we have a rehearsal tomorrow. Let's just, like, wait till rehearsal and we'll deal with it in person. Oh, no. But then they get to rehearsal and Dennis isn't there. And also a lot of the cast is not there. Like, 40% of the cast is missing. Okay.

George turns to Vivian and he's like, this is nuts. Like, he's like, what's going on? He's like, there's no way that Dennis could have poached like 40% of our Shakespeare troupe. Like, that is deranged. He's like, as difficult as Dennis is, like, he loves Shakespeare. He loves the theater. And Vivian is like, sweetie, never underestimate an actor. All actors are whores. Yeah.

She wasn't even talking about the situation. She was just like, what's one thing you got to know about actors? Don't sleep with anyone. Anyways, what were we talking about? Literally. George is like, this is not helpful.

But he's like, well, I guess we'll pare down our script even more. We'll figure out who can do what. I'll try and get information. They're just like, carry on? No! What would you do? Once again, I'm reaching out to everybody else to be like, what am I missing here? What happened? Yes. Yes.

George is like, how did he even pull this off? Right? Like, we've been doing this for years. We know the mayor. He, like, calls the mayor. He's like, what is happening here? And the mayor is like, oh, like, I thought that this was associated with your Shakespeare troupe. Right. Dennis came to us and said he could do it for cheaper this year. And we said, great. Oh, no. Is Dennis Mark Zuckerberg? Yeah.

Why? Why would you think that? It's giving move fast and break things. It literally is giving move fast and break things. Like, George is like, one, there's no way he could do it for cheaper because the Shakespeare troupe loses money, right? Like, he's like, there's no way. He's like, two, it wasn't us. And the mayor is like, I'm so sorry, but, like, we signed a contract with him because we just assumed it was you. And George is like, shit.

He starts like investigating. Would you like to guess what they will be performing? Romeo and Juliet? On rollerblades. Okay. See, like, you know, betrayal on a lot of different levels because it's like, so we didn't all agree that rollerblades were a bad idea? Mm-hmm. Wow. Yeah.

George is like, he's doing his little investigating, right? Like he's gossiping up a storm. He's learned that like Dennis has taken away their biggest event of the year, right? Their biggest earning event as a group so that he can do it with rollerblades. And he like wants to incorporate water, like water splashing. What in the? And George is like, you are not Baz Luhrmann. Like this is a community theater production of Shakespeare. Please calm down.

But every extravagant idea Dennis has ever had is going into the show. What is the rollerblade budget? Where are the rollerblades coming from? I bet they're the... Remember when Skechers came out with those skates? I certainly had them. Put them on and was like, this is a bad idea. I will die. No ankle support? Yes.

Yeah. Have you ever wanted to spend $60 and then also $800 in hospital bills? You could. And that's best case scenario. George wants revenge. Like he's pissed. Do you have any ideas for how he could get revenge? Loosening the screws on all the rollerblades.

That's all I got. That's a great idea. Dangerous, but good idea. I keep choosing violence. You do. And that's beautiful. Maybe George should too, because what George does is he, you may remember, has the newsletter.

So he takes his daughters with him to get more printer ink. And then he gets himself a little beer and he stays up late. And he is like, it's giving like Diane Keaton in Something's Gotta Give where like she's writing and crying and the camera is like panning around in a circle. Yeah. Once he's done, he prints it out. At the top, it reads, Et tu, Dennis? Oh. There are six clip arts of sorts. When they go low.

We go lower. Take an elevator to the basement. He has written about Dennis's treason and his betrayal. Yeah. Go off, queen. Go. You like this. He's nothing to lose. He prints the newsletter. He hand delivers the one to Dennis's house. Puts it in his mailbox. He is like Regina George with a receding hairline. I've literally done this before.

What? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was a voice major in high school and my voice teachers like traumatized me so deeply and made me like never want to sing publicly ever. And so at the end of the year, we would do this thing called jury papers where we would talk about like our year and stuff.

And I trashed them the entire time. And I printed three copies and gave one to each teacher and the principal. Oh my God. Did it work? No. And then my jazz teacher kicked me off of jazz choir and I didn't get to perform with Dave Brubeck. No.

I survived. He survived. I was like, okay, fine. George is like, I want to watch the world burn, right? Like he does not care. Three hours after he takes this newsletter over to Dennis's house, after the newsletter goes out, knock, knock, knock, knock, knock on the door. At the front door is Dennis. Do you answer? No.

I have to get into a man's head because as a woman, you're like, no one's home. No one's home. No one's lived here. No one's ever lived here. It's empty. Empty house. But you're George. He has some daughters, though. So it's like, okay. All right. George goes to the door. He opens the door. He's like, what's up, man?

Dennis is so mad. He's like, how dare you write this newsletter about me? And George is like, how dare you take our amphitheater, take most of our cast? Like you sabotaged our group thing for your own ideas. It's a real, it's a real how dare off. It's a why I oughta off. Like these two men are just yelling at each other in this doorway for like 15 minutes. Yeah.

And finally, George is like, you can leave my property now. And then he just closes the door. Dennis carries on with the rest of his season. But Dennis won. He won. You're George. Do you go to the opening of Dennis' play? Why yes?

Because I got to see this better be a trash fire. This has to be a trash fire. Rollerblades. Absolutely not. Water. I do want to watch someone get hurt. Yeah, I love Wipeout. Yeah. Turns out George was the creator of Wipeout. Yeah. Wow. George is like, I'm not going to this play. Like, Dennis hurt my feelings. He used to be my friend. I can't watch him do it. He's like Sadie.

Will you go for me? And Sadie by this point is like 15. And she's like, yeah, I'll go. Sadie goes to Dennis's play. It's packed. And she loves it. She's like, I love rollerblades. I love the water. She's like, this is the first time I've like truly felt interested in Shakespeare. She's like, Romeo's hot. This play rules. No, no.

Okay. She comes home. Don't tell him. And George is like, how was it? How was the play? And Sadie's like, it was fine. Nice. It's not as good as yours. Nice. And George is like, thank you, my beautiful daughter. Okay. George's play has to perform at the library because the amphitheater is taken. See, now it looks like George did some spinoff. Yes. If I was on the outside, I'd be like...

Why would he do that? And now, okay. Unfortunately, the Merchants of Dennis rollerblade production of Romeo and Juliet is the highest attended Shakespeare in this park's history. No, also Vivian. Vivian. Vivian's just like, I thought I'd go out on a bang. Instead, I got banged.

Anyways, what were we talking about? Once again, she's not talking about the play. Not at all. Okay. George holds this grudge to this day because Merchants of Dennis becomes the primary Shakespeare troupe in this town. And they perform every year. Hmm.

No. Later, George finds out that before the first show, Dennis gathered everyone together and was like, they don't want us to succeed. Like, they've sent this newsletter out. They're trying to hurt us. Like, we're going to prove them wrong. They are haters. Like, let the hate fuel you. Like, Juliet takes the poison, right? Like, you will be persevering. As someone who just went through a strike, um...

I can understand. Hate does unite. How awesome that would feel. No, no, Marlena, do not start being on Dennis's side. Absolutely not. I just had to check myself really quick. Thank you. George finds this out and he's devastated because he knows something that Dennis doesn't know.

Which is that he didn't send that newsletter to everyone. He printed one copy and dropped it off at Dennis's house. Oh. He's like, I accidentally fueled my enemy to victory. Yeah. Bitch, send that wide, you idiot. I agree. You wrote it. I'm like, you're gonna write it.

No one writes a sub stack for one bitch. Like, come on. Post it. Go live. We're almost at the end. Whose side are you on? How do you feel? I'm on Vivian's side. It's an incredible side to choose. Honestly, the rollerblades worked. Yeah.

They worked and they went faster with the water. Who knew? Anyways, I got rollerblades. Here's my last will and testament. It's not going to be long, but this is how I wanted to go out. By the way, I did play Juliet. Do you think that George played this right?

The problem is George didn't commit to the revenge. And he didn't run a good campaign. He couldn't have seen all this stuff coming, but he's a girl dad.

You know what I mean? I'm sure he asked the girls, what should I do? And they were very measured. Whereas like, I'm sorry, everybody. Cancel me if you must. But like, boys would have been like, let's hit him. Let's light his house on fire. Then he'll be too busy with the insurance claim because you have to do Shakespeare to do Shakespeare.

The sabotage was too light is the moral here. It was too light. Go hard.

or go home. My gosh. I feel so... I mean, what have we learned? Life is a Shakespeare play. Wow. And just like a Shakespeare play, the past is but prologue, and we now return to the present, where you, Sadie, are at a party in a dark bar with all your colleagues, where across from you is the daughter of Dennis, Catherine, your inherited enemy.

How do you play this? I'm trying to think if I have any inherited enemies. Sorry, now I'm like, are my parents good at keeping secrets too? Did I inherit? You might have secret enemies that you don't know about. Oh no, I do have one. If I met, if I, but he went to jail. Oh, okay. All right. All right.

We gotta come back. But if I ran into the daughter and she was chill, I would have to just move through. For all the violence I've chosen, I would have to just move through. But boy, can I not wait to tell this is what happens. How's your dad? What's your dad up to? And then...

Well, then she's going to say something not good. Like, she has to say something. This guy's not going to make it through life betraying people over rollerblades and splashes.

Sadie is like, I don't have to be like my father. Boo. I can be different. She's like, I don't have to reenact petty grudges. Like, she's like, it's so good to see you again. Like, I hope that your family's doing well. They have like a nice chat. She goes home. Okay. Six months later, she runs in to Catherine again at one of these events. And she's like, oh, so good to see you. She's like, what are you up to?

And Catherine's like, oh, I'm actually starting my own company. And she goes on to tell her that she is launching a freelance marketing business to help small women-owned businesses in this city, which is the same company that Sadie has already founded. No. Yes.

What a family of little bitches. Wait, but she talked to her six months ago, so she's like well aware. Uh-huh. This bitch.

I'm so upset. I'm real mad. Okay. All right. What would you do? I would freak out internally. I would go into, you know, like in, you know, in movies when like a character hears something and then everything goes silent. Yes. Except for like the, the what's it called? Tinnitus. Yeah. Like the ringing. Yeah. Like the ringing. Like that's,

That's where I would go. Fantasizing lighting her house on fire. I guess I like, in reality, I guess like ask more questions and how did you, what made you come up with

With that, I'm so mad. The audacity. Okay, continue. Sadie goes rage mode. Like, she's so mad. And she's like, I am going to, you know, I'm going to play this a little cooler than I could. But what she does is she goes around and she tells everyone, like, this woman is a snake. See, this bitch. Me and this bitch. This woman, she steals from me.

She has taken my idea. She's taken the colors of my branding. Like, she is copying me. She is from a family of thieves. The newsletter is going wide. The newsletter is going wide this time. She will not make the same mistake. Okay, okay. So she does this. She creates chaos. She basically runs her out of town. Great. Now I have a question for you, which is, do you tell George...

You're calling him up. Oh, wait. Do I tell dad? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Why? I think it'll be validating for daddy. Daddy, you'll never guess what happened. No, that's Catherine's voice. That's Catherine's voice. She calls and is like, guess what? I've beat our enemies. Yes.

And she tells her dad everything. And George is like, thank you so much. Like, you have redeemed our family. Hell yes. We are at the end. How do you feel? Do you want to change whose side you're on? Or you're still on Viv's side? Vivian is still alive. Probably. Those women live forever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, smoking kills, but not everyone. Right, right. She's not like the other smokers. Yes.

Um, I, I'm just so proud of Sadie. And I think now, you know, I'm, I'm 50% on her side and the other 50% on the roller blade side. Just the side of roller blades. I feel like this was a really, this was about roller redemption. Wow. And never underestimate the power of a blade.

Wow. Marlena, thank you so much for coming on the show. It was a delight to have you. Thank you. This was a real fun story. What a ride. Sadie's mom might be like a quarter Puerto Rican. That might be.

And to remind everyone, I am Puerto Rican. I can say that. Thank you for that clarification. What if I was like, I'm German and I have strong opinions about Puerto Ricans? I know they know how to fight. This is a fun one. This podcast is produced by Alex Sujong-Loughlin and Ozzy Linus Goodman. Justin Ellis is Defectors Projects Editor. Jasper Wang and Sean Kuhn are Defectors Business Guys. Tom Lay is our Editor-in-Chief.

Jay Tolviera is our associate producer. Abigail Siegel is our intern. Dan McQuaid runs our merch store, which you can find at normalgossip.store. Tara Jacoby designed our show art. Thank you to Jasper Wang, Catherine Hsu, Patrick Redford, Israel Daramola, Ray Rado, Chris Thompson, David Roth, Dave McKenna, and Luis Piaz Pumar for your help on this season. And thanks to the rest of the Defector staff. Defector Media is a collectively owned subscriber-based media company and

and normal gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia. I'm Kelsey McKinney and please remember, you did not hear this from me. Radiotopia from PRX.