Matinee Monday: Reindeer Games
01:02:59 Share

How long have these meal kits been in my fridge? One week? Two? How much am I spending on these? Hey, Erica.

Did my subscription go up? When your questions about life turn into questions about money, there's Erica, the virtual financial assistant to help you spend, save, and plan smarter. Only from Bank of America. What would you like the power to do? Erica is only available in the English language. You must download the latest version of the mobile banking app only available on select mobile devices. Your chat may be recorded and monitored for quality assurance. Message and data rates and additional terms may apply. Bank of America and a member FDIC.

Hey, everybody. Just wanted to give you a quick heads up here. There's something we should all be doing. It's going to improve your life, make every day a little bit better, and that is eat more Reese's Peanut Butter Cups. Yes, think about it. All the gurus, all the coaches out there, they've never said the words,

eat more Reese's. I mean, that combination of sweet chocolate and salty peanut butter. I mean, this is something that brings other people and ourselves joy. That's why there's two in a pack. Shop Reese's peanut butter cups now at a store near you, found wherever candy is sold and often in my pantry because I love these.

Hey, everybody. Sweater weather is over and sweaty weather has begun. And that's why you need a pair of Bombas socks because they are a premium extra long staple cotton sock that feels light on your feet all summer long. I love my Bombas. Why? Because they support my arch. So get ready to get comfy and give back. Head over to Bombas.com slash bonkers. Use the code bonkers for 20% off your first purchase. That's B-O-M-B-O-N-K-E-R-S.

bas.com slash bonkers and use the code bonkers at checkout. Ben Affleck, boobies, cowboy costumes, and a cameo by Ashton Kutcher. We saw reindeer game. So you know what that means? Let's go in the media.

Hello, people of Earth, and welcome to our very special Christmas Day edition of How Did This Get Made? Happy holidays. I am Paul Scheer, joined as always by Jason Manzoukas. What's happening? And June Diane Raphael. How are you, June? Good. How are you, Paul? Very good. Today we have a very special guest.

You know him from the wildly successful, the fantastically funny, Who Charted, Howard Kramer. Please welcome Howard to the show. Welcome. Hey, guys. How are you? This is our... Technically, this is our Christmas episode. So we are very excited to bring you...

Man, what a treat. Reindeer Games, the last John Frankenheimer movie. By the way, not a treat. Not a treat. This is a perfect Christmas movie for anyone. Did this come out around the holidays? Oh, I'm sure of it. Yeah. John Frankenheimer, just to give you an idea of what this guy directed, directed some great movies in the past. French Connection, right? Yeah. Iceman Cometh.

Grand Prix, Manchurian Candidate, Seven Days in May. And it all ended with this Ben Affleck movie with Charlize Theron, Gary Sinise, and Ashton Kutcher. Oh, I forgot about Ashton Kutcher. Oh, and Gary Sinise's hair.

And Donald Logue. Donald Logue. Oh, guys, by the way, it came out February 25th. It missed the Christmas mark. Oh, no. So that means that this movie was so bad. Normally they would dump a movie like this at Christmas time and be like, oh, just suck it up. We'll get Christmas money. No, they released it two months after. This is almost in March. You release a Christmas movie. That's appalling. No.

This movie... It was done clearly by December. This movie sucked. This movie was awful. I hated watching this. This movie is everything that's bad about the movies that we watch, to me. I was, like, freaking out. I was so angry at how bad the movie was. I had... Look, I had some issues with it. But...

But, you know, look, I'm a fan of twists and turns. Oh, God. And I love some sexy acting. The first thing that comes to my mind about this movie is the sex scene that is pretty like...

Charlize Theron and Ben Affleck have this like sex scene that is a little like graphic. Oh, yeah. In the sense of like what you're seeing. Like you don't normally see the part of the man that connects from the waist to the upper butt cheek. It's like a weird area. Minotaur looking. Yeah. You don't really see. Wait a minute.

Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Minotaur looking. Yes, because there was a shot of him. You know what I'm talking about. You're describing it where you couldn't see his legs, but you did see sort of right above the ass. It's like butt and back. And it just looked like...

It didn't look like a full human. It looked minotaur. It looked very minotaur. It was very weird. That sex scene, because I fully was like, oh, they're going to have sex now. Whoa! And listen, I'm not going to complain because it was sexy. But then I had a real problem with, and maybe I'm just not having sex correctly, but does anybody...

in the room have so much sex in a hotel room or wherever that you're on the bed you're off the bed you're fucking on the floor and then you fall asleep on the floor? Why not just get up and the bed's right there. Like that's what they do they fuck so much that they fall asleep on the floor next to the bed. I was like there is a bed right there. The only

The only thing in this room is a bed. It happened in Twilight, too. They fuck so hard they fall asleep on the floor. It's true. They are exhausted. They are too exhausted. There's also in this movie a lot of open-mouthed kissing that's very disgusting. It's like...

Super wet kisses. Super wet, wide kisses that are not appealing. Yeah. It's like just two wide mouths going at each other. I mean, we'll get into a spoilers section, but there is a Gary Sinise, and I won't say who the woman is he's kissing, a kiss that I was like, what the fuck is this? No!

Nobody kisses like that. It's like kids who've seen their parents kiss trying to kiss. Open mouth, right? That's how we do it. Is that what happened to you? I tried to French kiss my mom when I saw the love boat one time. No. Yeah. No.

She got really freaked out. What? I thought that was it. I thought that's how you kill it. That's how adults do it? Like I saw it on TV and I was like, oh, I've been, my mom gave me a kiss to go to bed one time and I was like, ah. It was like my mom was like, whoa, whoa. What are you doing? She caught me way before I got close. That's huge. Man, this is a pretty startling revelation. Let's get into it. I didn't know you had this whole French kissing your mom thing going on. Yeah, man. I tried to kiss my mom like Gary Sinise. Um.

I gave her the full-blown sinise. Also, I mean, I guess this is a dumb thing to pick on, but Ben Affleck and Shirley Sturgeon, both very attractive people. I know movies are about attractive people and stuff, but I couldn't get a read on

Like, are these supposed to be ugly people? Or are they supposed to be, like, really attractive people? That's a really good point because a big part of the movie is that she's set up – we'll find out what her real intentions are later. But she's set up as a woman who's writing letters to prisoners. And she writes – And she's Charlize Theron. And she's Charlize Theron. And so – and we learn a little bit more about her that she's in this small town. She's had a tough go of it.

If she just got to a coastal city, though, she's supermodel beautiful. I mean, she is so stunning. But that's what the thing is. He says to her, why is such a good-looking girl like you doing this shit? Is this what you do? Remember when they've woken up from their slumber on the floor? Yeah. He says, is this what you do? Why are you so beautiful? And she goes, well, when you're as beautiful as I am, the guys that want

you only want to fuck you. They just want to get inside. They want to get inside. They don't want to know about what's inside. They don't want to know what's inside you. They just want to get inside. Fucking control alt save. That is a good line. Save it. And Frankenheimer is in. I'm not the guy was a line that was in the movie about 30 times. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Basically, this whole movie is Ben Affleck is in prison. He just steals cars. No big whoop. His prison mate is a guy who stabbed somebody who was harassing his girlfriend. And there is a fight that breaks out in jail. His prison partner is killed. The jail sequence is 10 to 15 minutes long and is like an SNL sketch about jail.

It is so stupid. It's actually really upsetting, too. Like, I don't know. I watched it and I felt sick. I felt really upset. What is really upsetting about it? Because the cockroaches were in the food. Oh, Isaac Hayes. Disgusting. You know that one? He says, there are monsters in the jetties. Isaac Hayes? What was that?

Kay's doing in this movie. I want to play the part that Harold just talked about. This is my favorite scene in the movie. Monsters in the gelatin. So they're eating some like jello. What's wrong with you? Monsters. I'm a junk. It's just a rug. Yeah, it's protein. It's good for you. Monsters.

Look at this shit!

This starts a full-on prison riot because apparently the cooks, they haven't just had one monster in the gelatin, one roach. I guess everyone has tons of roaches in their holiday jello, and this starts a huge prison riot. Do you think that it was an unusual day? Like this is just a strange thing that happened? How many roaches must there have been? I don't know. Hundreds. Did they do it to start the riot? That's what I don't know. Was it that?

of the plan. No, because at the end when we hear the movie... Are you doubting how elaborate this plan could get? Because it had so many moving parts. And he, Ben Affleck

And I feel like at the end of the movie, Ian says like, how did you think this would work? Because at any point something could have gone wrong. Because when you realize at the end of the movie, what the plan has been all along, it's impossible to have been executed. Impossible. Yeah. It just requires so much acting, so much to go right. Well, let's, you know what? I'll, I feel like maybe it will be, well, yeah, it's, it will probably be better and serve everybody better to understand how it plays out. So, um, the monsters in gelatin happen. Uh,

Ben Affleck's roommate, his prison roommate gets killed. And now Ben is all bummed. He's like, well, I'm getting released from jail tomorrow. My prison partner was going to get released too.

He was going to go meet up with Charlize Theron. Maybe I'll take over for him. And he decides that he's going to take over the life of his killed prison partner just to get laid by this hot girl. Well, I do think he had some feelings for her just reading the letters and stuff. Yeah, he definitely did. I don't think it was entirely about sex. He definitely did have some sort of attachment to her. You don't think it was entirely about sex? Not entirely? No.

I don't. No, I don't. And that's what they were counting on was that it was more than just sex. But he speaks his subtext so much in the movie that I just, whatever he says, he was thinking, I just go with that. Well, that's the best part. He's sitting on the bus thinking about whether or not he should try to go after Charlize Theron and he's like, don't do it, Nick. Don't do it. And he just...

How about when they're in the department store and she brings over some clothes to him and then she walks away and he looks at himself in the mirror in a crowded department store and he goes, just get through the holidays, Nick. Rudy, just get through the holidays. Don't wreck her holidays. Yeah, we'll tell her after. We'll tell her after. Like a fucking Superman villain talking to himself in a mirror in a crowded apartment.

store. By the way, this is the only movie that I can recall that employs both talking to himself in a mirror or a window and also having voiceover narration too. Because there is also a voiceover narration. That's me. It's a lot of the camera going around. So he's doing dual narration. Dual narration by one character. Was anybody else really uncomfortable at how askew the close-ups were? Oh, yeah. Every close-up they would cut to was just like

a skew and a little off. Well, we were talking about this because claustrophobia. Yeah. We were saying before we started taping that like this movie had taken into effect when this movie like, you know, in consideration when this movie was done. So it was like 2000 and Howard's saying that it's,

It's like Quentin Tarantino. People were trying to emulate Tarantino, right? Tarantino had come along and now these older guys are trying to put a little Tarantino in their game. Yeah, and it felt like it was really trying... Like the violence was a little bit more bloody. It was like trying to be this cool thing. So...

Ben Affleck takes over the life of his prison partner and he, you know, forages this false relationship with Charlize Theron. They're having a great time. They're having sex. They're falling asleep on the floor. They come home and Ben is attacked.

attacked by these burly thug dudes. I do want to talk about this. So he walks in the door and he gets immediately hit in the gut with a baseball bat. Goes down and at which point another guy pops out of the closet. Why was that guy hiding in the closet? Wait, there were three guys. One guy, there was a guy in the bathroom and there was a guy in the closet. How many people

Again, when you understand the plan of this, not necessarily to have three guys to attack Ben. And he recovers...

so easily from brutal beatings. He is brutally beaten over and over in this movie and never has a mark on him, barely. He has a bloody nose in the diner, that's it. But I mean, I will say that he does limp around from getting those darts thrown into him. He gets about two darts. He has a tortured dart scene, which is also like a very, Quentin Tarantino, like, let's torture him. Let's do darts, man. Let's do darts. And he gets like two darts in him and he's like,

Like limping around. Darts. Pool darts. I mean, barroom darts. Maybe they've gotten like a quarter of an inch in your body. Maybe. He's like, ugh. So basically, we find out that Charlize has a bad brother. The bad brother wants him to rob a bank. No, casino. Casino, sorry. Casino because he worked in a casino, but he didn't actually work in a casino. The guy that he was prison mates worked in a casino.

And then he finds out that. He trips free and he keeps trying to be like, when he realizes the guys want him because they think he's Nick, then they're going to say, Nick, help us rob the casino. He starts to say, I'm not Nick. It's not me. I'm impersonating him. And the guy's like, so you're impersonating a guy to fuck my sister? You think that's going to get you out of this? And then he has to be like. But what he said was, he goes, you're acting like you did all this so you could get down her chimney. Yeah. Oh, man.

There's a lot of Christmassy wording. Yeah, that's right. And he does the reindeer games line, too, where he says, I read your letters. Don't play no reindeer games with me. You know what? I've never heard the expression reindeer games used.

Just in the song. That's it. Okay, so I kept on asking Paul. I mean, I must have asked like every five minutes, like, is reindeer games a thing? Like, are reindeer games... And what would Paul say? He'd say yes. You actually said yes. I said, yeah, it's from the song, the Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer. Well, I knew that, but I never heard this...

term or expression. Don't mess around at any time. I don't think it has any other meaning other than the song. A bunch of reindeers playing around. There's no other context for it. Oh, wait. There aren't specific reindeer games. You guys have egg on your face because I looked today and on Urban Dictionary it came up. It goes, reindeer games refers to any fun activities which are enjoyed only by members of a clique.

Which is often purposefully made obvious to anyone existing outside of said clique in order to make them feel inadequate and left out. So that would line up, though. Ben Affleck has no clique. He has no clique. He's a man by himself. Yeah. By the way, so Ben Affleck. So he's Rudolph in this scenario? Well, his name is Rudy. What? Yeah.

What is happening? Boom. Nailed it. Look at the symbolism. No. The joke's on us. The joke is on us. What just happened? This movie just got interesting. That's the reveal. This is an amazing movie. Holy shit. My mind just imploded. Are you kidding me?

Rudolph. And do you know what his friend's name was? Oh, no way. Nick. Nick. Man, I wonder if we can see. What was Gary Sinise's name? Gabriel. Gabriel. All right, so the Angel Gabriel doesn't come in. What was Charlize Theron's name? Ashley, but her real name was. Blitzen. Holy shit. I wonder if they were there. That was.

That was the, how we just got there was unbelievable. I'm sure the audience was like 10 minutes ago, like, hey, assholes. Today's podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. I love Squarespace. I'm in the middle of trying to balance my business life and my real life. This work-life balance, it's tough. But Squarespace has been helping me by giving me the tools to reach my goals and have time to celebrate. That's right. Squarespace is the all-in-one platform.

website platform for entrepreneurs to stand out and succeed online. With the guided design system of Squarespace Blueprint, you can select from curated layouts to styling options optimized for every device. Get your website discovered fast with integrated optimized SEO tools. Plus, make checkout easy for customers with easy-to-use payment tools. You can accept credit cards, PayPal, Apple Pay. Plus, with Squarespace AI, you can explain what your site is about. You choose your tone and enter what you need to get auto-generated.

perfect text. Anyway, I love Squarespace. I've been building sites with them from the beginning. And when I launched my book, I said, I'm doing it all myself on Squarespace. And I'm very pleased with it. Head to squarespace.com for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, go to squarespace.com slash bonkers to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

When you're hiring for your small business, you want to find quality professionals that are right for the role. That's why you have to check out LinkedIn Jobs. LinkedIn Jobs has the tools to help you find the right professionals for your team faster and for free. LinkedIn isn't just a job board. LinkedIn helps you hire professionals you can't find anywhere else, even those who aren't actively searching.

70% of users don't visit other leading job sites. If you're not looking on LinkedIn, you're looking in the wrong place. LinkedIn knows that small businesses might not have the time or resources, so they're constantly finding ways to make the process easier. 86% of small businesses get a qualified candidate within 24 hours. They even just launched a feature that helps you write job descriptions, making the process even easier and quicker. Post your job for free at linkedin.com slash LinkedIn.

That's linkedin.com slash valuable to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply.

Have you ever browsed an incognito mode? You probably think, oh, wow, that's safe. It's not. Not as safe as you think. In fact, all of your online activity is still 100% visible to a ton of third parties unless you use ExpressVPN. ExpressVPN reroutes 100% of your traffic through secure encrypted servers so third parties can

can't see your browsing history. And it is so easy to use. Fire up the app and click one button to get protected. It works on all devices, phones, laptops, tablets, and more. ExpressVPN is rated number one by top tech reviewers like CNET and The Verge.

And I got to tell you, whenever I connect to public Wi-Fi at a coffee shop or at the airport, I always use ExpressVPN because you never know how secure a public network is. And I feel so much more at ease knowing that I'm not being tracked. So protect your online privacy today by visiting ExpressVPN.com slash HDTGM. That's E-X-P-R-E-S-S-V-P-N dot com slash HDTGM. And you can get an extra three months free. ExpressVPN.com slash HDTGM.

During the courtship of Ben and Charlize, when they're out, you know, she's buying them stuff because Ben kind of looks like a villain from Back to the Future 1. Like, that's how he's dressed. But she goes, I got a 50% off discount. She was so into that discount. She was crazy about it. She started laughing maniacally. She's like, 50% off. But that's a huge discount.

That's a pretty good discount. You're giving away the store at 50% off. She was like drunk with power that she was going to go get 100 bucks off that coat. Do you think she got that coat 50% off with her discount, that silver coat? Yeah. Because that was a crazy scene where she was, right after they got together and they were in the diner, she said, first he didn't say hello to her and he didn't want to get out of the prison. And then he came back and

And so then you cut to the diner and he's like, yeah, I'm sorry. I just got freaked out. I thought maybe you wouldn't like the way I looked. And she's like, yeah, I mean, I thought the same. I thought maybe you'd like see my coat. She's Charlize Theron and he just got out of prison for five years. I didn't think you'd think I was. By the way, that coat was pretty ugly. And that's the only way they could ugly her up and make her look pedestrian is put her in ugly winter parkas. It wasn't even that ugly. I mean, it was a silver coat.

It wasn't like... They tried to... They give her a couple things. She wears a baseball cap and sunglasses. That's how they ugly her down. She had a winter hat on. And then in the diner, the winter hat is off and her hair is perfectly styled, though. Can we talk about the second diner scene where he eats pecan pie? Oh, yeah. I found that disgusting. Yeah.

I found the choice he made in eating that pecan pie to eat it as if he was like a starving person who'd never eaten food, but like an animal consuming pie. Or I was like, is this a sexual thing? Like, what's going on with why he's eating this pie this way? He started chewing up the scenery, literally. Literally.

Yeah. He was just killed after that pie. It was such a weird shift in tone because up until then, it's all kind of sinister. Yeah. And then all of a sudden, he starts saying, you know what? I want some hot chocolate. I want some goddamn hot chocolate. Some fucking pecan pies. Here's the thing.

funny thing about that too is like by the time that moment happens he has been out of jail he has had sex he has eaten with Charlize like they have like bought a Christmas tree together it's like they brought a lot of cookies together like I mean I feel yeah they got cookies oh that was a great line lots of cookies when the guy goes these guys got a shit load of cookies shit load of cookies why did they buy so many Christmas cookies who fucking knows

This movie is dumb. This movie is gross. There's just a lot of grossness to this movie. Why did he, but why was he eating it like it was his last meal when he clearly could have had that pecan pie and chocolate, hot chocolate. He got plenty of time to get that. Right. Anyway, but that was supposed to be his first meal out of prison. But he, but he, his first meal out of prison was Charlize, right? Oh shit. Can we just play that? I just want to, just for you guys to hear the, this is the only other clip we have. Here we go.

Is he doing Bernie Mac?

He's doing a Bernie Mac. I feel like that was a crazy... I mean, you're right. That's where the movie goes. At that point, the movie's like, all right, now we're on this whole different track. It's like a fun romp now. Because basically what we have not told you is Gary Sinise is Charlize's brother and...

And he's a robber or a wannabe robber. And they are using Ben's knowledge, but not really his knowledge because his former, the person he's impersonating his knowledge on how to rob a casino. So he's being pulled into a casino. He's just a car guy. He just steals cars. So now he's told them numerous times that.

Guys, listen, I'm not this guy. They refuse to listen to that. They keep on going, no, no, you're the guy, you're the guy. And he throws... Also, look what Charlize says to him. She's like, I was going to tell you about this after New Year's. Like, the two of them, Charlize and Ben's characters, are so strangely respectful of the holidays. I didn't want to ruin your Christmas by telling you my sociopath brother wants you to do a casino heist. Sure.

He throws his driver's license in the toilet. Yes. And then it's real weird. After he flushes the toilet, he pats the toilet twice. Yes. Like, good toilet. Yeah. You did what I wanted you to do. Oh, my God. That's the exact same thing. I saw that.

So stupid. And by the way, what a long term con on his part. He's like, I'm going to flush my license in the toilet. So I have no proof of identification for the rest of my life. I mean, well, he's like, I got to get laid. I got to get laid. I got to flush. I understood him at that point.

Hitting that toilet like you knew him. Yeah, I felt like I got him at that point because he both was working towards getting laid and not getting fined out and, you know, he wanted to tell the toilet good job. Thanks, bro. Hey, look, I always pat the toilet just to make sure. Good job. You ain't that good. You did a good job. Should we discuss

when they go to scout the casino and they get him a disguise? Absolutely. Oh, yes. So they need to scout this casino and they figure the best way to dress him up. By the way, this is the most obvious crew of robbers, right? Because even when they go get that pecan pie, it's like basically he is sitting amongst robbers

the most thuggiest of thugs. It's like Danny Trejo, Clarence Williams, Donald Logue, Gary Sinise, and they're all dressed like diehard villains. And they don't look like, if you tell me, oh yeah, I saw a fucking bunch of robbers in here. They're all sitting around this table with a guy with a bloody nose. And a supermodel.

And a supermodel wearing sunglasses. They were at the robber's table. We had to actually put three tables together to get them all at that robber's table. How many? There's six of them? Put them at the robber's table. I feel like this is that era of movie making when it literally is like, okay...

So we'll get a couple of good character actors to play the bad guys, and then we just need one of the angry Steppenwolf guys. So either Malkovich or Sinise. Sinise is basically doing a Malkovich impression for the entirety of this movie. He's not threatening at all. He's acting threatening. He's not such a toothless villain. He's...

and shorter than every single person in the movie. He is not at all scary. Well, how about when he throws those darts at him? And he reveals, and he's hitting darts perfectly around Ben's head, like kind of the way that they did it on the Tonight Show, like the Tomahawk thing. And then he goes, hey, I wasn't meaning to miss you. I've been trying to hit you. Yeah, I've been trying to hit you. So I'm just bad at this.

But yeah, he's not an intimidating... No, because Ben Affleck cracks wise so many times when he should be threatened. Like he's about to be smashed in the face, but he just is flipping. Well, the other thing that I can't figure out is they are murderers.

But they've never committed a crime before, and he is just a truck driver. Are they murderers? I guess they do kill people eventually in the movie. They kill people without remorse. But not before this thing. Well, she says, I don't know, maybe she's lying, because here's the spoiler alert. She's playing a bunch of reindeer games. Yeah, is that Charlize Theron...

is not just double-crossing Ben Affleck, because she is not Gary Sinise's sister, she is Gary Sinise's girlfriend. Right, which Ben Affleck finds out, but guess what? Another fucking twist! Double-double-cross. Nick...

The prisoner who is Ben Affleck's best friend in prison is not dead. He's alive. Charlize Theron is his girlfriend. What? And the whole thing has been a con on Ben Affleck. Yes. And Gary Sinise. And everybody. They were counting on... All those chances. There's a whole

scene of dialogue at the end of the movie where this actor has to come out he hasn't been seen in like an hour and a half and has to explain the entirety of the movie to us it was awful well but by the way how about the fact that that now it makes me question did she actually have the 50% discount

Did she really work in that store? We don't know. She had the card. I don't know. This con goes deep. If anyone in the audience knows. Because 50% sounds like an enormous discount. Even people who work in the corporate office don't get paid. She's put in some years. By the way, because what she could do is just buy stuff and then sell it on her own and make some serious cash. That's a crazy discount.

Maybe she sold those other guys their clothes, their Robert clothes. Or their Santa suits. Do you think she got the Santa suits from that? From the clothing store? From that clothing store, yeah. I don't know. I doubt it. So they go to case the joint and they decide to... And by the way, so the entire time the movie, Ben...

I hope I didn't spoil the end too early in the podcast. I think you did. It's too hard to follow that anybody has a spoiler. Well, now we can kind of really uncover it from all angles. Let's unpack this. Because basically, Ben is telling Gary Sinise the entire time, I'm not this guy. I'm not this guy. Now, by the plan of this movie, Gary Sinise knows that he's not this guy, right? No. No? Oh. Gary Sinise is also being conned. Yeah. Yeah.

So Gary Sinise does not know that he's not, that Gary Sinise has no way of knowing that a guy named Rudy was reading those letters. Yeah. Gary Sinise just knows that. He's Nick. He's Nick. Gary Sinise needs to believe he's Nick. Exactly. Even though everything is going against him at every point. And even when, even when, at the point in the movie where he realizes this isn't Nick.

He still says, where's the powwow safe, which is something that he invented. Yes. Right? Well, no. I think you find out later that it was mentioned in the letters. It was mentioned in the letters. But there is a part where Gary Sinise is trying to run Ben Affleck over with the car in the snow. And then she reaches over to pull the wheel. But why would they do any of that if...

It doesn't make sense when you go back home. I think she's trying to sell the scam. She knew. I believe that if Nick had not killed Gary Sinise, then, I'm sorry, if Rudy had not killed Gary Sinise. But Rudy didn't kill Gary Sinise. Charlize kills Gary Sinise. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Charlize kills Gary Sinise when it all comes next to the truck at the end. Yeah, she shoots Gary Sinise in the head. She goes, ah, man. Right, right, right, right. I'm sorry. Right. So, but she... But he had no way of knowing, though...

You guys. Wait. Hey, guys. Let her figure this out. I'm really caught up in a reindeer game right now. I'm really lost in a reindeer game. Unravel it. Unravel it. Even the screenwriters didn't bother to figure this out. So your question is, did Gary Sinise know that Rudy was not Nick?

No. That's what you guys are saying. I'm saying no to that. You're saying... I'm saying that Gary believed that Nick was Nick. He believed... Yes. Yes. That's what we're all saying. Okay, so we're all saying that. All right. Okay. Sorry. All right, but now... That was amazing.

Sorry, you guys. I got really lost. Still better than the movie. Hearing you describe. I'm still trying to figure out the parental logic of sleepaway camp.

It has been broken down online. You can check out our message boards. The movie? The movie. Yeah, the movie. All right. So let's get it. So they go to Caseless Casino. They decide to dress Ben up in a cowboy, like a comical cowboy outfit, like almost like a foghorn leghorn had formal wear. This would be what he would be wearing. Like when... Oh, fuck. Sorry. Sorry.

I just killed your whole podcast. No, don't worry. No, when Norm Macdonald plays Burt Reynolds. Yes, that's exactly what he looks like. That's perfect. Big old cowboy hat, like crazy mustache, bolo tie. By the way, this casino is so low rent. Oh, God, it's terrible. What is Dennis Farina doing?

I mean, poor Dennis Farina. He literally keeps having, he runs the casino and he keeps having the line like, I shouldn't have left Vegas. You know, because he's working in this podunk. Why did he leave Vegas? He basically, he says to these, he's having a meeting with these two Native American men. It's a Tomahawk casino. And he goes, hey, you guys need to do some sort of ring dance and get it to stop.

snowing so I can do some business and then the guys leave angered and he's like hey guys come back we got prime rib at the thing like it was like wait wait wait he just insulted these people their religion everything and you're like come on hey come on guys I shouldn't have left Vegas

And I felt like every time he was saying that, he was like, I shouldn't be in this movie. I feel like everyone did this movie. I mean, Charlize Theron publicly came out and said, this is a very, very bad movie. This is the worst of my movies. I only did it because John Frankenheimer did it. And I was kidding myself to do it. So I feel like everyone probably got off on that. Like, they're like, oh, John Frankenheimer. I agree with that. Like, if you told me John Frankenheimer was directing a movie in that era, I would have been like, awesome. I'm into that. Right.

The only person who was not able to cut it was Vin Diesel, who was originally cast in an unspecified role. But he made so many demands regarding his character that the director, John Frankenheimer, fired him before production started. That's interesting. I bet you it was the Donald Logue character. That's my gut. Yeah. Or maybe like a combination of those guys. They were all Vin Diesel. They couldn't get Vin Diesel, so they broke the whole up. They had to split it up. Yeah. I don't want to get lost in a twist again, but...

So... God, fuck. It's happening again. But if Nick... Original Nick? Original. OG Nick knew that Rudy... He must have been prepping Rudy in prison this whole time. Yes, right. And reading those letters and all that stuff. Right. Why wouldn't he tell him more information about that casino? Like what? Like...

That it had just more info. It seemed like Rudy Nick, the only thing he really knew was the powwow safe. He didn't know anything else about the casino. Good point. That is a good point.

It is an unanswered point. To what end? Well, to me, the whole movie, all he needs is for them to rob the casino. Yeah, but he's prepping Rudy to know how to do that. But he's not because basically at the end when Ben says to Gary Sings, he's like, wait a second, if I died at any point, could you still have done this? And Gary Sings is like, yeah.

We could have. He doesn't say it to Gary Sinise. He says it to Living Nick. Oh, yeah, right. He says to Living Nick, he's like, this is so crazy. There's so many moving parts to this. It couldn't have fallen apart in any way. And he was like, yeah, it could have fallen apart. Oh, he's like, how did you know I would go with her? What if I had just gotten on the bus and left? And he's like, if you had, she would have just convinced Gary Sinise to do it without you.

Right. Like, they would have done it anyway. So you didn't even really need the whole protagonist of the movie to be in it. No. By the way. You were ancillary. And by the way, I would also argue this is one of the first movies where none of the characters are likable. Like, Ben Affleck, I mean, he's not a likable guy because he goes from being like a very put upon, like he's like, yeah, I just, you know, I robbed cars and got the bum deal. And then he's like a dick.

And he's not like, he's not, he didn't take, you know, he assumes the life of somebody else. He's feeding toilets. He's just raw dogging Charlize Theron while she thinks he's some other guy. They're all evil people. None of them is redeeming. She doesn't really, Jason. What? She doesn't really think he's an evil person. Oh, right, right, right. She knows. But he's a bad person because he thinks she's evil. Absolutely, I'm just saying.

But let's talk about when he goes. Real OG Nick really is very comfortable farming his girlfriend out to get plowed by everybody. By two different men. Maybe that's what he's really into. Maybe that's just to see that. Just to set up his girlfriend. That's the biggest reindeer game of them all.

All right, so they send him in Burt Reynolds style to this casino. And now, meanwhile, you think, okay, well, this is a chance for Ben to case the casino. No, no, no. All the thug guys also come in fully thugged out. They're not in any sort of costumes. Again, they look like robbers and thugs. They're wearing their one outfit that they have. And then what do they see? Well, oh, he sees this guy across the casino. He kind of looks like him. He's got a weird mustache and a goatee, too. Oh, who is it?

Ashton Kutcher.

What? Ashton Kutcher. And does Ashton Kutcher have any lines in this movie? He's got two. Two. Two lines in the bathroom. Yeah, which in the director's cut are edited out. Really? Yes. In the director's cut? The director's cut, they edit it out. I only can imagine that Ashton Kutcher owed something to the Weinstein Company. They're like, you have to be in this movie. And he was like, okay, I'll do it. Is he a star in 2000? Yeah, that 70s show has been on. He's a TV star.

Because I was like, maybe he wasn't big enough. That's not a part that you take. I don't think, how huge could he have been by then? Not that big, I don't think. I'm going to look right now. I'm guessing he wasn't that big, but I just assumed this was like one of his early roles. Me too. Really? I thought it was sort of like. Like Kevin Herman in the Blues Brothers. All right, because I thought it was much more. That was a good poll. I thought it was much more like, look at this. Look at who this character is. No, I don't think he was.

doing movies then. Okay, we'll see. I'm going to tell you right now. I'm looking as I need to be. Okay, in 2000, he had already done Dude, Where's My Car? No! Yep, and...

And he was on Just Shoot Me. And then, yeah. So, I mean, he had done... He was an actor. Wait, he was the star of Dude, Where's My Car? Yeah. Oh, so this makes no sense. Wait. Yeah. Did that come out in 2000 or shot in 2000? It came out in 2000. So, I guess, you know, so he was the lead in the movie. So, at that point, he also said, oh, I'll take this one-line part.

I mean, he was a star. This came out in Feb. That probably came out in the summer. All right, yeah. And maybe this had been shot years earlier. Right. Maybe this sat around. All right, so you guys are predicting that this is something that he didn't. All right. I mean, we can just ask Kutch. We'll get Kutch on the phone. We can dial up the Kutch phone. Because, by the way, that 70s show started in 1998. So he had been on that 70s show for a couple,

years. Okay, then he should not be in a role that has less than five lines. But it's a Frankenheimer. That's probably how they got him. Yeah, it's like, you want to come in and do a Frankenheimer? So basically, Ben just goes, take this coat. Here's a hundred bucks. And he's like, alright. And then he puts it on and then he just runs around and he goes, he gave me a hundred dollars. That's basically all of the Kutch's lines. And Teenage Girls went crazy. In my mind, I feel like the wine scenes were like

Like, this kid's hot. Girls love him. Let's put him in this Frankenheimer movie. This movie will make a lot of money. Here's my bigger question. The scene after this, when Charlize and Ben run away into, like, a bank of snow, and they try to escape crazy Gary Sinise, they...

Charlize Theron falls into the frozen lake. One of the best shots in the movie. Okay. And then Ben Affleck jumps in after her. Now they swim away from the hole that they fell into. Well, that happens to people when they fall through the ice is that they cannot find the hole they fell through.

That is true. The current might drag them or they can't see. Is there a big... Okay, because... All right. No, I'm glad to hear this because it looked so bright and it looked from where we were standing with them, the shot we were on with them, that you could see that other hole so clearly. Yeah, that's a huge thing. That is a real... I remember this from as a kid growing up. You can't.

is a kid growing up like playing hockey on frozen pond like ponds and lakes but also when you were growing up like clowns would chase you onto that ice guys the clowns let's not fucking forget the clowns I gotta ask someone actually you it's been validated on one of the many episodes a lot of people came to your defense oh really oh good oh thank god alright thank you people

But I remember like there was like there was there was the whole threat was that you would fall through the ice and that you would not be because of how when you you get so disoriented that it's very easy to get back up and get you stuck there and you don't know where the hole is that you came out of. So kids would die underwater, not because they couldn't find that little hole they came through.

Oh, wow. I'm so glad to know this. So this part of the movie is 100% factual, ready to go. Luckily, they did not lose their machine gun, and they were able to shoot through that ice. Yeah, is that factual? That's what I was wondering. Would a shotgun fire underwater? I don't know. Yeah, it was a full-on machine gun. It wasn't even like a pump action. It was like, prr, prr. They were able to get through there.

One of the most heartbreaking moments is right after, though, when this little man who this little local yokel. He's fishing on the ice. He's ice fishing. Kind of like a grumpy old man. He was so sweet. And that actor, I thought he was one of the best actors in the movie. He says so sincerely, is everything OK, you guys? And then realizes that he's dealing with like bad.

Bad guys. Murderous. Yeah, sociopaths. Because they're all carrying guns. Yeah. Sure. He starts to run away. Do you think he died in that house? Okay. Oh, no. He definitely died because it's on the newscast. It's the newscast. Oh, yeah. Later on. Because later, they go into a room and the newscast in the background is saying, the strange death of a local man on the river, this is still unsolved, but the police suspect foul play. Oh, do they suspect foul play? Is that because his little ice house was shot up by a machine gun? Yeah.

And by the way, it's a spec file play. This guy must have been some serious shit. Yeah. But these guys who are not robbers, because they've never robbed anything before, they're just truck drivers of the dream to rob. Who live out of their truck. They live out of a truck that is like the Knight Rider truck. Yes! It's like full decked out like Motor City truck. Yeah, he... But, oh my gosh. This movie sucked. Ha ha!

I got so angry. So the scene where Gary Sinise is throwing darts at Ben Affleck, are they in the rec room of that hotel? Aren't they in the truck? No, they're not in the truck. They're in the truck. No, no, no. Jason, they're not in the truck. Because there's pinball machines around. They're in the truck.

That's not in the truck. No, it's like a shitty motel with cinder block walls. Yes. And all the rooms have cinder block walls. Yeah. By the way, you guys will be happy to know that. I guess so, but I'm pretty sure that took place in the truck. By the way, wherever it took place, there was a big fog machine. Everywhere in that hotel was foggy. Everything was defrosting. By the way, you'll be happy to know that Ron Perkins, the actor who was killed in the ice house, is alive and kicking. He was just on the mentalist.

And, uh, he was on Veep and he does, he had a very big part on House MD. So you can check out, uh,

He is Dr. Ron Simpson. Oh, all right. But he's in a few of John Frankenheimer's movies. But yeah, everything in that hotel looked like everything was steamy at all times. But my favorite line in the hotel was Ben escapes from the hotel in a futile escape plan because he doesn't really get anywhere when he escapes. And he comes back and he's trying to break back into his hotel room. And he's like, ah, I can hotwire cars.

I can hotwire hotel. That's what he says. I can hotwire cars. And all he's doing, he has somehow found a knife. How did he get a hold of that knife? I don't know. All he's doing to hotwire the door handle is touching the knife with

to the door, like to the electronic component of the door handle. Just like tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, green light I'm in. It was, there was no wires. There was no, there was nothing. It was just touching a metal knife. That's how it worked. Metal to metal, Jason.

When he does escape that hotel for that futile escape plan, which I don't even understand why he escaped. Yeah. And then he tries to get back in. Yeah. It's like you were loose. Like keep running. Just keep on running. And by the way, everybody, like those four robbers are everywhere in that hotel. Every which way that he goes, there's another one of the bad guys. Like, hey, I'm down by the vending machine. Hey, I'm out reading my magazine. Hey, I'm over here in the pool. Like they are all.

over the place. Yeah, one guy finds leftovers outside someone's home. Hey, it's food. These are disgusting robbers. That's a disgusting trait to look through people's used food and eat it. That just shows you, though, how desperate these guys are. But Ben got the one up on them because he was able to order a lot of pay-per-view from

And these robbers did not want to pay for their pay-per-view. Cleared out the minibar, too. Yeah. Another egregious tone shift where you're scared for this guy's life, and then all of a sudden he's just dicking around in the toothless villains. It was a $1,200 bill.

No, that much? It was a huge bill. It was a huge, like, I'll print it out on an old computer printer. Like, you charge us all this money on pay-per-view? Yeah, they'd be like, one punch, that's for the pay-per-view. Another punch, that's for the minibar. It was so, like, Abbott and Costello. Oh, my God. And then, so now we get to the big heist. Things are happening. It's exciting. They're finally going to rob this place. And man alive, it's...

To get you to this final scene, everything goes haywire. They all dress as, by the way, the big reveal is they're going to rob the casino dressed as Santas. It's Christmas Eve. Because it's Christmas Eve. And then they reveal the suits like, we got a plan, man. And they open up a closet full of neatly hung Santa suits. In the truck. In the truck. Right. And if you double back, the whole reason. That was in that hotel. The reason he dressed. In the truck. What? No, guys.

We'll find out. The reason that they dressed him as a cowboy earlier is because they said, if you go in there regular now, they'll recognize you when the heist goes down. Yes. No, no, no. They were going to recognize him from when he used to work there. As Nick. They were like, if you walk in now, they're going to recognize you as Nick.

So he goes, that's why I need a disguise. And then they're like, it's either cowboy or ballerina. By the way, why would it be such a big deal if Nick came in and just the old place he worked there, he wasn't fired for stealing. He could have just say, I'm here to visit. What's up? Yeah. I'm the guy with the problem stealing cars. And it doesn't matter anyway. He goes in as the cowboy, Dennis Farina, who runs the museum, the casino, the

Says, hey, how'd you hear about us? How'd you hear about the casino? And he's just like, whatever, whatever. And then the bad guys are like, you were talking to the guy. Did you tip him off? Like a huge part of the movie was contingent on them thinking that he had said something to Dennis Farina, which wasn't true at all. The whole movie is based on lies that no one has enough information. And are low stakes. Very low stakes lies.

Very low stakes considering they didn't need Ben Affleck at all. Yes. And by the way... If the plan is walk in and shoot the place up, guess who you don't need for that? Ben Affleck. By the way, can I just bring out the larger flaw of this plan? The casino is not making any money. It is losing money. It is a not profitable casino. We're going to rob it on Christmas Eve. A dead night, by the way. A dead night. So...

Usually heist movies are like, on this particular night, there happens to be three times as much money in the vaults because of Betty, blah, blah, like Ocean's Eleven or whatever. It's like a fight night. This literally would be the night when there is the least amount of money in the least successful casino. The shittiest casino on the shittiest night of the year. We are standing to make hundreds of dollars tonight. It was, but yet when they get in the back room, tons of money.

I guess casinos just keep it there just in case they have a rush. Just wrapped up in perfectly stacked bills. I also love that when they arrive at the casino, they cut to Dennis Farina, who's just watching the security cams. Just watching people come in. And he's going, oh, that Santa's kicking your security guy's asses. Kicking your security guy's ass.

Dennis Frida does not freak out when they're full on fight where they flip tables over. It happens in the main floor of his casino. He's like, I freaked out on my last movie. I don't need to do it again. Hey, guys, just put in Midnight Run. You'll see what I can do. Anyway. But then they somehow, Ben needs a weapon. They give him a weapon that has liquor in it.

It's a squirt gun. They give him a squirt gun, and then they pass around a bottle of rum later, which he puts in the squirt gun. Yeah, so he's like, that's a comic relief moment. Throughout the whole time, he can give himself a little squirt of rum. But it'll come in handy. Comes in really handy, because when Ben is tied up against the wall, when he is stuck in this one moment, he's going to get killed. The guy's like, I'm going to kill you, but first...

I'm going to light a smoke. Now, I didn't see this twist coming. I didn't think this squirt got. You didn't? I did not think this squirt. I mean, in the moment I did, but I didn't see it leading up. The guy's like, before I'm going to kill you, let me take out my cigarette and my Zippo lighter. And he goes to light a cigarette. But Ben, very quick on the draw, shoots some quick rum at him and lights this guy on fire in the most Hollywood ironing.

I'm on fire. Like, special effects are amazing. Like, it's like, this guy goes up in flames like a fire starter. Three squirts from his squirt gun engulfs the man in, like, insane flames. By the way, when you say squirt, we should be clear, it's like such a tiny, small stream. There's no...

We should work that out, like see what would really happen if someone was smoking. We should Mythbuster this? Yeah, Mythbuster it. You think we should Mythbuster this? All right, I like that. Get my beret. I get the beard, you get the beret. Let's go. I bet you someone online, one of our fans wants to make a YouTube video. I don't think you'll light yourself on fire. All you'll do is put out the cigarette. You'll just put out the cigarette with the rum.

Also, I will say that in this heist, there are more point-blank misses of any movie ever. Because there's only like six characters, so they can't kill each other that much. They have to just miss each other nonstop for the entire ending to make it a little bit... And I don't even... This even goes to show you that it's not even a fun movie because you don't even remember how any of these guys die. Like, I don't remember how Trejo dies. I don't remember how Donald... Well, you know, like everybody gets shot. Well, the problem is...

that everybody dies in Santa suits, so you can't tell who's being killed. Yes, that is a problem. So at the end of the movie, everybody's indistinguishable from each other, except for Ben Affleck. And so you have a lot of trouble figuring out who's who. Like the guys, when they open up the vault room, one of the Santas gets shot with a shotgun and flies backwards and dies. I'm not sure who that was. Maybe Danny Trejo.

Or Donald Logue? Not sure. You don't know. And that's what it's like. You're not tied to any of these deaths because I don't fucking get it. Like, who was that? Why did that just happen?

Any movies where the achievement is that you can't tell the difference between Danny Trejo and Donald Logue, that's a pretty good accomplishment. Well, but that's a big part of... Well, I thought it was going to be a huge part of the ending when Ben Affleck said... When they say to Ben Affleck that five Santas came into the casino. Oh, yeah. So five Santas need to be dead. Yeah. But...

There weren't five Santas dead there. No, well, what you think, what I thought was going to happen was that Ben Affleck was going to, once Nick, once OG Nick got killed, Ben Affleck should have put his Santa suit on OG Nick and killed him because then Ben Affleck can walk away unscathed, right? Wait, but by the way, they keep on saying that...

They blow up. But at the end of the movie, they blow up everybody anyway. They're all on fire. They don't need to put the Santa suits on anyone. They're all burnt to a crisp. I don't disagree.

Wait, am I to believe that at the end of this movie, he gives all of the money away in people's mailboxes and then goes to his own family's dinner? He walks home. When they actually showed him. The movie could have been over so way before that. Oh, yeah. But they took the time to show you him going to his holiday to watch the ball game with his dad. That was his whole dream.

bloodied and in the Santa suit. He's in a bloody Santa suit and he's at home at the head of his kitchen table with his convict. The big smile on his face in his dirty Santa suit. And his last line is, I know what the holidays mean now. Like, he knows what the holidays mean.

Well, as you pointed out, some mailboxes got two chunks of change. He would take all that money and sometimes he would put one stack of bills and sometimes it's two. So people should know, he walks away with the stolen money. Yes. Right? And now in my mind, I'm like, hey, return that money to the casino because that tribe was struggling. Return that money. Not that a lot of casino workers were killed. But instead, instead, he Robin Hoods it.

And he puts it in just people's mailboxes. Because he's a good guy. He walks down the street and puts- What he should have done- They finally make him likable in the last scene. But that wasn't likable. What he should have done, he should have started a fund for all of the families of the casino workers who were killed in that shootout. He should have started- And taking care of them. I think he should have just either left the money there and called the police to the scene of the- But then it's evidence, Jason. They can't do anything with it. Won't evidence get returned to the casino? No.

I don't know. I can't. I don't know about that. We should get into this. He should have done with the money. He should have made those design changes that he was trying to convince them took place in the casino. He should take a seat now. Can I, did anyone catch the real twist ending of the movie? Uh-oh. So he gets home to his parents' house and the entire thing was orchestrated by his dad to get him home for Christmas. So his dad...

Set up his prison roommate to fake his death. It was a long-term family con to get him home for Christmas. That's all it was. It's a movie about family. Well played, Rudolph's dad. Rudolph's dad, whose name is Santa. No, the whole idea, the reason why he was called Nick was because that was the whole theme of the movie, Do You Believe?

Do you believe it's Nick? Do you believe in St. Nick? Yeah. Hey, can we talk about he dispatches Charlize Theron. She's on the hood of the car and she goes over the cliff. Yes. And then now it's time to get rid of the real villain, her brother. And it's just the same exact thing. Same two deaths right in a row.

Ah, fuck it. We don't care. We'll just do it again. Let's do it exactly. Oh, but no, the difference is, the first thing, she went over the cliff on the hood of a car, and then the next thing, it's an 18-wheeler that goes over the cliff. Oh, it's a bigger car. So it is basically completely different. Okay. So, shame on you. I did love that. You need a different license to push those up. I did like his one-liner. You have to be able to double-clutch. Wait, what did he go, what did he, he's like, oh man, I'm going to mess up the line, but I did like it. He's like...

One first rule, never trust a... Oh, yeah. Never put a car thief behind the wheel. Yeah, that was it. And I was able to just reverse into the brother or to reverse into OG Nick, get him, and drive her off the cliff. Oh, it was an anticlimactic ending. Just seeing Cliff fall off a thing exploding, it's like, eh, right. Yeah. The...

Is there any... Obviously, we had an opinion about this movie, but it's time to hear some second opinions. These are reviews cold from Amazon.com. Five-star reviews. Um...

This is... Five star? Five star reviews. So here, you can agree or disagree with this. Are these critics or just pedestrians? These are pedestrians. These are what America is thinking. Josh Miller says, Reindeer Games works on so many levels as an action film, it's damn near flawless. Ha ha ha!

In fact, I think it is flawless, except for the lame brain twist that was going to throw in at the end. But that didn't ruin it. So I stick to my five stars. I'm going to have to start trusting Elmore Leonard a lot more because his mini review on the cover sums up everything. Well, reindeer games rocks. Oh, really? He's more accurate than Stephen King has been about certain movies.

So that's a guy who's trusting many author mini reviews on a DVD box cover. That's what makes you start liking Elmore Leonard. Well, this one is a good one, too. Amando Mesa writes,

Because I can't figure out how Theron and Affleck turn on the waterworks. Is it method acting or real emotions? It's incredibly believable. Do they even cry in it? I don't remember them crying. Gary Sinise can play either good or bad flawlessly. If he's a good character, he's intense.

If he's a bad one, he's super intense. He turns it up. The only drawback. This is it. The only drawback. This is a five-star review.

is that this is the kind of movie where the twists in the story will be fresh in your mind for the next three days. And then afterwards, you're going to want to analyze the whole thing and remember it afterwards. So that is the drawback. Thinking is the drawback on this movie. And then, and this one, I just, I pulled these two. I don't, this one is, this one I wouldn't normally read, but it's so, it's a five-star review. And I think it's funny. Kilmari writes,

Sinise is terrific as the deranged wannabe thief once he gets past his hideous reptilian looks.

How many camera lenses did they go through? Wait, what? Is the presumption there that his looks are so bad that he would break camera lenses? Many. But he is terrific. He is terrific. It is a five-star review.

His reptilian looks. He does look a little like a character from V. And then somebody else just compares a Fleck to... A Fleck is emerging as a star who possesses a commanding screen presence only afforded by older, more distinguished actors such as Sean Connery and Ed Harris. Throne proves to be the theatrical equal of...

Marlena Daytrick. So those are some five-star reviews. Is there anything that we missed? Anything that anyone had written down that we didn't talk about? Nobody else may buy into this one, but I thought that Nick, the OG Nick. Yes. He reminded me of Todd Berry.

Yeah, kind of a little bit of Todd Berry in him. I'll take that. I'd actually prefer to see that character played by Todd Berry. Yeah, Todd would have been good at it because he's like a mastermind. Yeah, I would have liked to see, because I think Todd's energy, his look is similar, but Todd's energy would have nailed that part. He would have brought that wrestler magic to... That guy, I looked at that because I was like, who is that guy? Yeah.

Yeah. And he's been in like every TV show. He's been in everything, but he has never had like a big thing. Well, this could have been it. Anybody else? Anybody else? Anything before we wrap it up? Just if the little drummer boy is constantly getting sung by Affleck. Oh, yeah. The Christmas music made me sick in this movie. They ruined the Christmas music. And then there's like...

sort of upbeat Christmas chamber music at the end. Uh huh. Like, it just, which didn't match any part of the movie at all. It was like, it was like a diehard thing. It was like, oh yeah, diehard. It's like, yeah, I think it was like mashing together. They also fired their composer, uh,

in the middle of this movie so like half of the music is done by Akiva or like I'll find out two different composers like James Goldsmith you know they had that February 25th deadline they had to get it guys they gotta get this Christmas movie out by February 25th I thought the pool scene with Charlize and Gary Sinise was very gross is

Where they are revealed to be lovers. She takes her top off. Great tits on Charlize Theron. I'll say that. By the way, she's naked quite a few times in this movie. That make out they share is disgusto.

I thought that was gross. Every make out in this, everything is gross in this movie. I mean, make out wise. I was very grossed out by it. I was so intrigued by that hotel too because it looked like a Motel 6 but then it had this like weird indoor pool area. Yeah, it's like, why do they have that pool? That's too nice. Yeah, that pool is... By the way, also when Ben finds out that Shirley's in...

and Gary Sneeze are fake dating, like, the way he finds out about it is he hears, like, Charlize yelling, like, hey, get your hands off me, get your fucking hands off me. And then he goes in and then he finds out, oh, they're going out. But she's, like, drinking out of a wine glass and it looked like they were having a romantic interlude. So it didn't look like they were in the middle of fighting. It seemed like they were just, like,

They were out drinking wine. They were clearly over it. Right. Relaxing. Yeah, they were relaxing. There was some argument. I don't even remember who it took place, but there was a point where he goes, you said he was stabbed. He took a shiv. Oh, no. I said he died. That's how it all becomes revealed. Who is it? It's Sinitza. She says that to...

to Affleck. Right. And then he's like, Affleck's like, wait, how do you know he took a shiv? I never told you that. Right. And then they just keep repeating that. They keep repeating it back and forth because that's letting Gary Sinise know that he's being double crossed and he doesn't, he gets super confused and that's when she shoots him in the head. Right. And she goes, oh, man. Okay. And then she becomes the true cold hearted bitch that we all knew she was. Yeah. Women don't trust women even though she hates men.

She's from South Africa. Man, oh, man. Yes, go, please. Please, anything. In the beginning when he's talking to his cellmate in the cell, his cellmate's like reading the letters from Charlize Theron and Ben Affleck is exercising. Doing push-ups. He's doing push-ups and his wife beat her and then he turns over and he starts doing like sit-ups

but he's just in full conversation as he's doing these weird, it just seems like, where does he even get the breath to have that conversation? By the way, I keep on thinking, like, he must have made that, regretted that choice immediately, like, as he's like, take 17. Fuck, like, ugh, because he has to really do it in those scenes. By the way, that's also, like, a great part of the movie where there should be some, like, witty repartee between these two, like, prison inmates. Nope. None. None.

Very, very stale. Even though Ben Affleck has told us in voiceover, and that's my best friend, Nick. Yeah. It's ludicrous. And there's a moment even in the beginning where he's like, hey, maybe I should fuck this girl that you want to go fuck. Yeah, that was weird. And he was like, and then the guy...

It's also a really big coincidence that they're being let out on the same day. Yeah, two cellmates. Oh, because originally I remember thinking like, oh, they must be in for the same crime. They must have been partners. And they weren't. They were just cellmates. No, one guy, that guy killed, original G was stabbed somebody. Ben Affleck just stole some cars. No big deal. But that's the way life treats them. Maybe the warden was like, we'll put you two guys together because you get out on the same day so there won't be any conflicts in your cell. Well, you know, yeah, it's all about rooms. Right, nobody would be jealous. There won't be any hidden secrets.

and resentment. It's so tough to get new roommates in there too. Ron Jeremy's in the credits as prisoner number one. I didn't see him in there. I did not see him in there either. I didn't see him. Oh no, his name is Ron Hyatt, prisoner number one. Oh, but it is him, yeah. Ron Hyatt is Ron Jeremy. That's his AKA. What? Did not know that.

Wow. Hey, I don't know if you guys, you know the movie Bandits came out around the same time with Bruce Willis? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, no. That's the one where he's like having cancer, him and, oh, man, the guy from Billy Bob Thorne. Yeah. So I'm not that familiar with this movie, but this kept reminding me of it because it's like just that same era and kind of these sprawling crime movies.

Directed by Barry Levinson, too, like an older director trying to get in on this new, like... Yeah. But I think that one's terrible, too, but I'm not sure if it's as bad as this. All right, we'll have you back for that, then. Stay tuned for Bandits, 2001's Bandits. Opening weekend, $13 million, $80 million budget. Wow. This movie was $40 million, and it made $30 million worldwide. Oh, wow.

All said and done. Wow. And all said and done. Did Frankenheimer just pass away or they just said no more for you? That was it. He went to movie jail permanently. That was his last film. Well, would I recommend that you watch this? I wouldn't think it's a necessity to see it. I think you could pass on it. I think if you want to watch that ice fall scene, it's pretty good. And maybe the end is pretty good too. Yeah. This is a watch while fast forwarding. Yes. Yes.

All right, so that wraps up Reindeer Games. Merry Christmas to all those who celebrate it, and happy holidays to all those who don't. See you in the new year.