Matinee Monday: Jaws 4: The Revenge (w/ Jake Fogelnest)
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Vengeful sharks and bad Jamaican accents. This time it's personal. We saw Jaws 4, The Revenge. So you know what that means. Now it's time for How to Discapate. We're gonna have a good time, celebrate some failure. Not just be a hater, cause you know you're one good. How to Discapate. Let's all win the mediocrity of subpar art.

Hello, people of Earth, and welcome to How Did This Get Made? I am joined, as always, by June Diane Raphael and Jason Manzoukas. How are you both? Good. How are you, Paul? Pretty terrific. We have a special guest today, Jake Fogelnest. Welcome. Hi. Hi. Hello. Well, man, oh, man. Jaws 4. This is a highly recommended movie that I've been really postponing because I was like, it can't be that good.

I thought it was amazing. And the fact that it's a major motion picture. This was on the level of Birdemic to me. This is true. In terms of how bad it is? Yeah. Oh, but it is a major studio release. Well, I know what you're saying, too, because there's so many scenes that are ADR'd so poorly. It feels like so much of the action that's taking place outside, which is most of the movie, is ADR'd. There's just production value things that are shocking. Yeah.

Have they ever thought maybe it's a bad idea to make a movie on the ocean? Like, like I, like I understand, like they made the, the first jaws and that was a, you know, that turned out well, but it was a disaster. It was a disaster. The second one, I think it didn't go much better. Uh,

The third one's in 3D, and that fixes everyone. Sure. And you would figure by this time they would either have figured out, all right, this is how you make a big shark movie, but absolutely not. I think the answer was, you know what? We still don't get this, but we've got Michael Caine.

But great news, we've secured Michael Caine to play the rakish island pilot in the Bahamas. Guys, great news. Do you have the whole cast back? No. We have one person from the first movie who's really on the side. We got Roy Schneider's wife to come out of acting retirement. Did she really? Yes. She was self-imposed acting retirement. She also was married. By the way, she had the right idea. Yeah.

Apparently, the reason why she was cast in the first Jaws, and this is maybe potentially hearsay, was that she was married to the head of the studio at the time. Fascinating. That's why she might have been cast...

Possibly. We're not saying that's true. She was married to Gary Universal. Gary Universal. Sid Shulman or Sid? Sid Sheinberg. Yes, that's who she was married to. By the way, why do I just know so easily the head of Universal Studios in the 70s? She really does not have many roles to her name. No. Wait, what? She was Hysterical Lady in Car Wash. Yeah.

Obviously remember that. She's actually very good in that. Do you really? I think I do know. Is she Miss Beverly Hills in Car Wash? Like the hysterical woman who's got the sun that's puking? It just says hysterical woman. I think it is, yeah. I like that you also have Total Recall for Car Wash. I love Car Wash. That is a great movie. That is an

classic. I went and saw it in the theater not that long ago at midnight. No, Car Wash is awesome. You've got George Carlin's in it. Professor Erwin Corey. Of course.

I mean, we're talking PIC is in this movie? It's a PIC. Oh, all right. And yeah, Richard Pryor has, with the Pointer Sisters. Richard Pryor and the Pointer Sisters together. I am in. I'm going to watch Car Wash. Because America needed that to happen. Well, basically, they were like, we got Laurie and Gary, so let's bring him back. Let's get this shark back in the water. Grandma versus the shark. We need one more element.

though. Yeah. We need one more element. What is it? Can we get Mario Van Peebles? Oh, we're going to try. We're going to try to get Mario. Look, look, we're trying to put together. Can we get any Van Peebles? Can we get a Van Peebles? Can we get Mel? I think it started with, do you guys think we could get Melvin Van Peebles? No. Great news though. He's got a son. Get him in here and let him not read the script. No.

Apparently, Mario Van Peebles in this movie improvised his entire role. Really? Yes. Wow. Can't tell. Can't tell at all. I mean, like, he's, they're in the Bahamas and he's speaking in a Jamaican accent. Yes. At a huge, I mean, possibly he's just a Jamaican guy hanging out in the Bahamas, but I was like, no, no, this is, he thinks this is how they talk here. There's more.

authenticity in those Red Stripe beer commercials with the Red Stripe reggae band. The movie starts in Amity, like the first movie. Oh, can I ask a question? I'm sorry. I have a question just because I don't know and maybe you guys do. So Helen, the woman who's Roy Scheider's wife from the first movie, is she not in two and three? She is in two and then three they just focus on the sons. And were the sons these sons?

Three really doesn't matter.

really doesn't have anything to do with it's sort of not part of the canon. Yeah, basically three, they threw away. The Jaws canon? They threw away three. They threw away three. The idea in Jaws 3 was that the kids go work at SeaWorld and then SeaWorld does attack. Wasn't Jaws 3 supposed to be a comedy? I know that there was a script or some sort of pitch where they were like, Jaws 3, people zero. And I think it was Matty Simmons. I think Matty Simmons from the National Lampoon, they pitched it as like a comedy.

as an animal house sort of National Lampoon comedy. They may have written a script. Wow. And then the studio was like, no, we're, you know, we're going to stick with what we do. We're going to stick with what we do. Everybody's scared. But they were going to do like an air

Oh, by the way, I mean, I know we're skipping ahead, but Mario Van Peebles does the Jaws theme in the Jaws movie. At one point, when the main character is underwater, Mario Van Peebles is talking to him over a two-way communication, and he's like, ba-dum, ba-dum. So are we to assume that in this world, the movie Jaws exists, a movie that features the death of...

This character's father, Roy Scheider. Or I thought maybe in this world it could have been there was a documentary made. That's what I thought. Like a made-for-TV movie about the event. Also scored by John Williams. Wait a second. That's what I thought. How could you have that and still have the Jaws theme from the Universal Pictures movie? Jaws. Steven Spielberg's Jaws. That was a real-life event that was dramatized kind of like 30 minutes or less. Yeah.

This is like a multiverse situation. When she's going back to those flashbacks, she's not remembering actual things that happened. She's remembering the dramatized version from the movie. That would be amazing. When she goes back into, I mean, now we're jumping way ahead. Yeah. She, Helen, the main woman, has a series of flashbacks at the end of the movie. Well, and

None of which she was present for. She flashes back to scenes she could not know what they were. That's why I'm saying there must have been a documentary made about her life and which was turned into a movie. A movie starring her actual family? What are you talking about? The way the flashbacks work, it's not dissimilar to that old HBO show Dream On.

You're right. Brian Benben? Yeah, Brian Benben. At any point, I just thought she was going to see an old Three Stooges clip. Hey, you knucklehead. So let's just get you, you know, catch up on the giant plot. It's a movie about a shark.

Basically, Ellen Brody still lives in Amity, and her husband, Roy Schneider, apparently died from the fear of sharks. So he had the anxiety that he had that another shark attack would come has given him a heart attack. Which, by the way, is such a, like...

kick in the nuts to the triumphant ending of Jaws where Roy Scheider triumphs over his fear of the water, which is what his that whole movie is. Roy Scheider is afraid of the water, right? He doesn't want to go in. He doesn't. He's afraid. And the movie ends with him alone. He is the lone survivor. He has this major triumph. And then this movie is like, yeah, but he was a big scared pussy for the rest of his life. He died of fear. I prefer he was eaten by a shark.

I do. Well, you kept on saying that he was eaten by a shark. I want to just even say, if we want to put Jaws 2 in canon, Roy Schneider's in that movie, too. He is? Yes. Contractually, he was forced to do it, and he really hated it. But he also defeats another shark in that.

that and he like he comes back you're not scared of sharks yeah exactly so he's had two great bouts with a shark and then a couple years later he's like oh the fear and he has a heart attack well I mean mental illness is a real thing it is it is very true the rest of this show is going to be dedicated to talking about mental illness and have very honest discussion

So basically, they're living in this town. Ellen Brody, the wife of Roy Schneider, has a son who's there who's now the deputy sheriff or whatever. And he gets called one night to go out to the middle of the bay to clear a log that's

bothering a buoy. He's also 11 years old. Right. And it's, the one thing I did like in the beginning of this movie was it's Christmas. I love that. So it's winter. I love that too, yeah. So I was like, oh, they're going to do a Jaws movie in winter. How's that going to work? And by Christmas time. By the way, I like any Christmas movie. I mean, like, you know, Die Hard, Lethal Weapon, it's like, yeah. Santa Claus. Santa Claus, the movie. Yeah.

No, but I mean, like, I always think that's a good backdrop for like an action movie or something, you know. Right. And this, they don't really pay off on Christmas at all. Although I was obsessed with the pageant they were getting ready for, the Town Square Christmas Festival. I just don't understand the job requirements of the deputy of Amity that he has to get in boats all the time and like take care of buoys out there. That's not really police work. But anyway, he goes out to fish out this buoy.

And at which point... I just have to ask, why is it a bob-a-booey? Nailed it. Nailed it. Yeah! It's a bobbing buoy. It's a bobbing buoy. It's a fa-fa-fooey. And so he goes to fish it out. And Jaws, the Jaws, I'm going to call him the Jaws, is hanging out there waiting for him. Yeah. And the minute he leans a little bit overboard...

The worst directed action sequence of all time. That is the thing about this. I looked up the director, and he's not really an action film director. No. How did he get this job? It was like they combined four different shots, very disparate shots that don't really connect. What happened that all of a sudden he's missing an arm? Yes. My arm. Yeah.

It's ridiculous. It's truly... You never see the impact of it. There's no connection between any of those shots. Did they not get the shot? They clearly didn't. They must have. They just don't know. I felt like shot construction in all of the action sequences made no sense. And that's why you're like, is this a real movie? Because it looks...

So cheap. It's like, oh, they get... I mean, by the way, the shark in this movie very rarely attacks underwater. Yeah. He's jumping out. He's always out of the water. Sometimes out of the water and still. Yeah. Just for a couple of beats. Yeah. Fully out of the water. If you go on the Universal Studios tour... Yes. ...and you go on the tram past the Jaws shark... Yeah. ...that jumps out of the water...

That is more realistic than the shark that's in the movie. I have more respect for that terrible ride and attraction at Universal Studios now. That is scarier. I'm like, that is scarier than this movie. The thing that we're forgetting is as his arm is eaten off, right? Yes.

there is instantaneously an amount of blood in the water that is preposterous. It is as if an entire human body's worth of blood has fallen out of his arm instantly. Like they cut him open and just hung him out there. He then falls into the boat, looks at his arm, and starts going, No! His acting performance is as if to say, Wait, what's going on?

Well, when he first falls in, when he first falls into frame, he actually has a reaction that's like, oh, I made it. I'm okay. I'm okay. That was a close one. That was really close. I just came face to face with a shark. And

he sort of looks to the side and realizes that his arm is completely gone. He has that shocked Scooby-Doo moment. And by completely gone, you mean pulled out of the sleeve of his jacket and tucked behind his arm. It looks like a bad Halloween costume. Like, oh, I don't have an arm. It's like what your grandparents would be like, oh, I'm missing. It looks like his arm is tucked behind his back. He's screaming in pain. And then he decides... Does the script literally say, ow, my arm? No.

Like, is that actual dialogue that somebody wrote down? Well, if they did, he delivered it with a palm. And then he goes, oh, my arm's missing. Let me go stick my head to see what that was. Sticks his head over the boat. And then the shark just eats, from what it looks like, he eats a side of the boat. So he's a part of that thing. Well, it's amazing, too, because the way he falls into frame, he must not have felt that arm get...

eaten off at all. Like, there must have been no sensation. Guys, he's probably in shock. You know what? He's probably in shock. He's probably in shock. He's probably just as confused because he didn't understand the shock construction either. He's like, what just happened? Oh! I guess that's what the prop guy was doing. It is like, it's more clearly constructed when the plant in Little Shop of Horrors eats people. That is a

That is a very clear thing. You know, you see like, oh, I'm going to go check out this weird plant. Chomp, chomp. He's also screaming in pain. And the reason I know I can hear him is because? Oh, it's because there's Christmas carolers on the shore. And they've needed a lot of work to get that song together. By the way, there's, I mean, maybe 10 Christmas carolers. But they are so loud. It is intercut. So it's like, ah, my arm! Garfield!

By the way, guys, really good singing. Yeah, we really nailed it. They're all singing different songs. You're welcome, listeners. Which all sets up the most insane premise of all time. Because when the mom finds out that her son was killed by a shark, she goes...

It's revenge. The shark was waiting for him, which makes no sense because they fucking killed the shark. But it gives us the tagline. This time it's personal. But wait a second. Listen to this, though, because this truly blew my mind when it happened. I was like, so wait a minute. Does that mean the shark put the log on the

buoy to lure him out. Yes. Yes. That's when I was like, this movie is unbelievable. Not only that, but the shark also knew that the Coast Guard was busy that night. Yes. Yes. They had a lot of work going on. So I don't know. He probably distracted the Coast Guard.

And then he put the log in the buoy. And then he's like, this fucker, he's going to come out here and guess what? I'm going to chomp, chomp, chomp on his own. It's manipulative. It's smart. It's a sociopath shark. This shark is so smart that, I mean, not to jump ahead. How smart is it? That when they decide to travel, he finds out about their travel plans and is able to meet them in the Bahamas. He doesn't even...

He goes from Amity, which is kind of like Martha's Vineyard, to the Bahamas quicker than an airplane can get. Within a day's time. But no one is talking about it. This shark is like bug their house. But back to the house because, again, it's revenge. But no one ever goes to the mom. What?

fuck are you talking about? He killed those two sharks. No one explains like, cause I guess in my mind, she's like, well, maybe the Jaws shark from the first movie told his babies that like this guy was after him. Like, I mean, there's no communication. That's true. The Jaws ends with a dead shark. Yes. So Jaws 2 ends with a dead shark. And there was no thought of Jaws 2 being a shark that was like,

related to the first one. Maybe it's sort of solidarity between all sharks. Yeah, maybe it's like, maybe it's like Carl Young's The Collective Unconscious for Sharks. So like, the Brody family has imprinted on the first Jaws movie

And has now thus become part of the great white shark collective unconscious. And they know we got to get rid of those fuckers because they're coming for us. So we're to understand, though, that the Brody family, the only way a shark dies in their world is from a Brody family member. And the sharks are so attracted to the Brody family that even when they see other people like, fuck it, we're going for the Brody's, not anybody else. They're able to distinguish through smell?

I guess they can smell their blood. Well, now I love the resign. I guess they can smell their blood. I guess that's it. It's the only logical conclusion. I do. I guess I'm over. I can't. I do want to just play this because I think it's important to just kind of these are questions, obviously, about how this makes sense. This is from YouTube. This clip.

It was the original voiceover narration that started the movie. And I think that this is the director just going, I don't fucking know. And they took it out, but this is the original way the movie was supposed to start. This is true. Here we go. Here it goes. It's time immemorial. Events have taken place with no evident reason for the happenings.

Such phenomena has been man's dilemma and the subject of constant philosophical discussion. When there is no factor motivating an event, no case of cause creating effect, what triggered the action? Fate or circumstances? What you are about to see concerns such an event.

Maybe you can determine whether we are dealing here with circumstances or fate. So basically, yeah. Okay, first of all, it's essentially the same introduction to Magnolia. Ha ha ha!

These strange things happen all the time. P.T. Anderson steals. Yeah. So, no, it's literally like we can't. How dare you, Paul Thomas Anderson. How dare you. We're on to you. But I guess now I'm understanding that was supposed to be the question for us. The question is, basically, none of this shit makes sense. We don't know. It's up to you. You figure it out, guys. Here's Josh. Sometimes circumstances make absolutely no sense, like the movie you're about to see. Here are a couple of options of what might be going on.

I don't have an answer for you. If you can connect the dots here, get back to us. Could you imagine a studio executive watching that movie going, what the fuck is that? You're starting a movie? You're just basically going, I don't know. Random occurrences. A series of unrelated people. A shark. A lightning storm. Boats. Who knows what's going to happen. It's essentially free association. Yeah, it might as well be.

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This is the little kid, the little kid in this movie who's really rambunctious. Thea? Thea. This is her coming into, they just found out that her uncle is dead and here you go. Uncle Sean is dead, you know. Will he ever come back?

We'll talk about that some more later. Would you like something to eat? I want a hamburger on the plane. Oh, we could do better than that. How would you like a funny bone sandwich? What? How was the airplane ride? Good. The lady gave me two lollipops.

Boom, done. She was sad for a moment, lollipops and sandwich, knocked her out. And by the way, that's all ADR'd. You never see that kid. That scene was all like, someone's like, yeah, we need to add in more about this. So that means that they had extra time to figure out exactly what the dialogue should be. They had some time. We got to talk about what she had on the airplane. She had a hamburger. She doesn't need a funny bones. What the fuck is a funny bone sandwich? Right?

I'm assuming that was like tickling the girl or something like that. Oh, okay. But she did respond by saying she had a hamburger. Well, it is crazy the way grief is dealt with in this movie because the son dies, I guess, right before Christmas time. Yes. Yeah, which is the worst time for your son to die. Of course. It's terrible. And then they celebrate Christmas in the Bahamas. They celebrate Christmas in the Bahamas by New Year's, which is, we all know, very close to Christmas. Yeah.

It's about a week later. It's about a week later. And Michael Caine's on the beach with grandma telling her that it's about time she move on. Her son has been dead for one week. Oh, and he was eaten by a shark.

Which, by the way, there's a history of that happening. Yes. And it's about time to move on. And by the way, the big plan in this movie is she's really afraid of water, doesn't want to go get water, and her other son who comes back to visit for Christmas is like, you know what? Let's go down to the Bahamas. And let's take you to another more...

Water island. Maybe go somewhere landlocked. Yeah. You know what we should do? We are in the middle of winter in New England where almost nobody's going to be on the water, right? Yes. So let's stay here. No, no, no, no. You know what we should do? Let's go to the sunny Bahamas where I work as an oceanographer. My daughter, I live at the end of a dock where my daughter swings out over the ocean. My wife makes steel art of sharks. Of sharks.

And let's just go someplace where there's tons more water and the sharks are definitely going to be there. And I should tell you, my brother-in-law is dating a shark. Yeah. This movie is insane. It's insane. Oh, my gosh. Because also, we haven't even talked about the fact that Mrs. Brody has what Spider-Man has as a spidey sense. She has a shark sense. Oh, yeah. So when the shark is close by, she's like, ugh. Ugh. And she starts to have flashes of the shark. And then...

Again, to add to her bipolar-ness, she's like, oh, Shark is nearby. And she's like, I'm going to go start dancing. Yes. Start dancing again. She's at a little party with Michael Caine. Dancing to a wonderful song by the Jets, which I had not heard in forever, just to date this movie. It's that song that goes, you've got.

the heavy head of a... He's like, who remembers that song? It was upsetting to hear that again. There's a really upsetting line where she says to her oldest son, first she apologizes about thinking... I have this on tape if you want to hear it. Can we play the mom clip? I believe that's clip three. I've got a bit of pain in the ass and I'm sorry.

I'm not going to bother you anymore about your work. You're not a pain in the ass. Come on, let me finish. I've been rehearsing this all day. Thanks. Your brother's death almost killed me. I don't know. I'll never get over it. Okay, wait. We've got to stop it for a second. Okay, the brother died. It's New Year's Eve. It's two weeks later. Two weeks ago. Barely. Suddenly. Barely. Suddenly at the prime of his life. He's dead. He's dead.

She delivers that line like it's a joke almost. It's like, so your brother's death almost killed him. But...

It's such a throwaway. It's so insane. Yeah. And this is, by the way, this is how she's been rehearsing it. Yes. She's been rehearsing it all day to deliver it. Your brother's death almost killed me. Your brother's death almost killed me. No, that's too emotional. I need to throw it away more. Your brother's death almost killed me. Anyway, I'm sorry to be a pain in the ass. I'm going to leave you alone. I'm in love with this new guy and we're having a great time in the Bahamas.

By the way, Hoagie, don't really understand what Hoagie does. Hoagie is Michael Caine's character. Oh, yeah. We haven't even talked about that. So you meet Hoagie, who has one of the creepiest introductions of all time, because the little girl, and they're flying down there, and the little girl's like, I would like to fly the plane. And he says something like, I wrote it down. Get on my lap? Yeah. I sometimes let interesting people sit on my lap, and then he took that girl. I don't know. I thought that was creepy. And he says, hello, I'm Michael Caine.

Michael Caine missed out on receiving an Academy Award for Hannah and Her Sisters for the reshoot of the ending. Which still missed.

No makes no sense. Yeah, the reshoot of the ending. Because you sent the original ending. Yes, the original ending is online. We'll post it up on the website. Just as incomprehensible as... The ending of this film, for some reason, like I imagine this is a big studio movie. Yeah. This is the ending of the movie. They shot a lot of footage. $20 million movie back in 1989. That's a long time ago. It's like a $100 million movie now. And in 10 years, it's like a $400 million movie. And in like 30 years...

It's like an eight Google million dollar movie. I mean, guys, we're talking about a big expensive movie. I mean, we get all... We all know. We all know. We all know it takes money to make money. That's what these guys were doing. No, but the ending... So they've shot a lot of footage. What footage they had, they decided to essentially run through iMovie, like an early primitive version of iMovie, putting strobe effects on it. It's like they had a video toaster and like...

with like bad Dutch angles and like, oh, we have great footage. Let's just mess it up so no one can see. If you're Michael Caine and you see this movie, which he famously has not seen the movie, he is, one of his quotes is, he goes, I've never seen it, but by all accounts, it's terrible. However, I've seen the house that it built and it's terrific. Yeah.

But if you were to see that movie, you're like, I missed getting an Academy Award for this, for this ending. That makes no sense. Holy shit, it makes no sense. This ending is wild. And they could have cut

The ending. They could have cut the ending they used in this movie with all the same footage from the original ending. It's not that different. It's really not. It's basically instead of the shark getting shot, a boat goes into the shark. Well, but doesn't the same thing, isn't the same thing in the ending this time? Well,

Well, basically, the idea is... She runs the boat into the shark. Yes. And then the shark explodes. Yes. Right. Not like explodes, but like explodes. It explodes. For no good reason. No good reason. I guess I went online and I read about it.

Apparently, Mario Van Peebles was shooting an electrical impulse bomb in his belly. Well, I thought that was just messing with his mind. That's what I thought, too. Because Michael, the character Michael, keeps pushing the flash. It's all built on flashlights, by the way, guys. Mario Van Peebles is like a MacGyver precursor who's like, wait, I can build a bomb out of a flashlight or whatever. They have a strobe light. They have a strobe light, and it's bothering the shark.

It's irritating. And the shark, meanwhile, the shark does what everything, every underwater animal does when it's in pain. It pokes its head out of the water and screams out in pain. Roars. Roars. Roars.

Roar! Right? Because it's normal. Because what it needs to do is... Shark! Roar! Yeah. Because it's a fish. What it needs to do is, it needs to, yes, poke its head out of the water, take a deep breath, and then scream. And expel the air. Totally, totally normal. Just let it out. Totally normal. The, Roger Ebert, this is how he described the ending. He goes...

I can't believe that the director, Joseph Sargent, would film the final climactic scene so incompetently. There's not even an establishing shot. So we have to figure out what happened on the basis of empirical evidence. Oh, my God. That's amazing. Well, I'm also confused about why she went out there on the boat. What happens before that is her granddaughter is out on a banana boat. Basically, the whole movie of Ellen Brody is trying to stop everyone from getting in that water. They should call it Don't Get on the Boat. Yeah. Yeah.

So the shark goes after the granddaughter. She narrowly escapes, but an innocent bystander is eaten. Other people are repeatedly being killed, which nobody seems to care about. No one cares about that person who's engulfed by the shark and killed in front of everyone on the beach. They're like, ah, who cares about her as long as that little girl didn't get killed in the banana. When the little girl doesn't get killed, there's tons of reaction shots from bystanders of relief. It's like, put another person.

was eating. Another person is being eaten alive in front of you screaming in pain. The trauma of every single person on that beach watching some person be eaten must be massive. Oh my god, to stand there helpless. Yes. Someone is being eaten by a shark. Like 10 feet from shore. Yeah.

Yeah, they're all in shallow water. Oh, yeah. By the way, for a shark that's so after the Brody family, he kind of takes a pass on that banana boat person. Oh, yeah. He knocks off that person. He's like, I'll eat this person. Who's the other person the shark eats? There's another random that the shark eats. Well, the shark eats Jake at the end.

Well, does he? I mean, but no, there was another random right in the beginning. There was an earlier random, I feel like. Oh, I don't know. Yeah. Oh, there's a lot of flashbacks to sharks eating, but not really eating. Well, anyway, after Thea narrowly escapes on the banana boat, the grandma gets this crazy look in her eyes and

takes over a boat that's just sort of nearby? No, it's Jake's boat. Oh, it is Jake's boat. Oh, it is Jake's boat. Okay, I didn't realize that. Which just happens to be docked two feet away from the shark attack. Yeah.

Okay, fine. So she takes that boat and goes out into the water. But my question is, what was her plan? To sacrifice herself? I think so. How does she know how to drive a boat? Well, that's what I thought, too. Does she have previous boating experience? I get it. It's a family business. I'm assuming so. I would kind of buy that part of it. Although, it's a large sailboat. It's not a speedboat. It's a big vessel, it's a big vessel.

a big vessel. And it seems like she's going out there, I mean, I guess, to be like, okay, motherfucker. Yeah, bring it on. Let's bring it on because you really want me. You're attacking my family, so you want me. But that's my question. Why does the shark really want her? Because it remembers Roy Scheider. Yeah.

And it's like, you killed my father or you killed my father's shark. In terms of bloodline, if the sharks can smell the bloodline, she actually has no connection to Roy Schneider. Okay, this is what I think you have to think of it as, very simply. I think the Jaws series might as well be the Jaws family and the Brodies as the Hatfields and McCoy. Ooh, I like that. Every generation. Kathy Letts and Montague.

Every generation continues the blood feud. But I would argue, though, that the Jaws family doesn't really go tit for tat because they killed their son and they're like, no, we want to kill your whole family. That's why it's confusing that she goes to sacrifice herself.

Well, she's not sacrificing herself. I think she's like, all right, motherfucker, let's do this. Really? I think she's like, you want to go? Let's go. I think when the shark is coming at her, she stands at the edge of the boat and is like, come on.

Come on! Take me. I feel like it's like she's going to let Jaws get her. Oh. That's what I felt. A little suicide mission. On behalf of the younger generation. Yeah, that's what it felt like. Now, meanwhile... You couldn't find your ass with both hands. That's not fair, man. You go away, you leave me high and dry. I do all the work by myself. You come back acting like a zombie. It's Christmas Eve. We're working overtime because of you. Hey! I'm sorry about your brother, man.

Just, okay. And then he proceeds. They're screaming at each other. He's like, you haven't been the same since you've come back from your brother's death. And then... His death was, at this point, days ago. Days ago, yeah. Days ago. And then the way that he... You see that scene, and that scene continues with him going, no, no, no. And then Meryl Van Peebles picks him up over his shoulders and gives him kind of like a WWF kind of hug wrestling move. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

But Mario Van Peebles said that he wrote his own role, and it makes sense because his character makes no sense. Nothing to do with the rest of the movie. Yeah, nothing to do. I mean, these people also love to tempt fate. It's like, fucking giant-ass shark in the water. That's the thing. I just kept thinking, really, why don't you guys get out of the shark business? Sure. Just stop with the sharks. I also hate to come back to this, but it's like,

You know, I kind of want to say the brother, take the week off. Yeah. It's Christmas. It's Christmas time. He's got to tag these snails. That, by the way, is his job. You lost your brother days earlier. Take the week. His job is to tag snails. Now, you would also argue, this is what I would say, the brother went to Amity to visit his mom for Christmas break. Yeah. And then he brought her to Jamaica. Take that week. He was already off. He was already off. If his brother brother didn't die, I would imagine they would spend that week in Amity. He's a workaholic.

He's a workaholic. He can't stop. Well, his wife can't stop making that amazing art sculpture. What the shit is that? I was obsessed with her character. What the shit is that? She was the most sour, uninteresting, unlikable. Could she be Banksy?

That's my question. She makes the most bizarre sculptures. The sister-in-law also has a very strange and strained relationship with her husband. Yeah. They have a lot of sex, though. Yeah, they have sex a lot in this movie. And she's hoping that that goes on for a while. She tells her mother-in-law. Yes. Crazy.

Which I thought was weird. It was very weird. Talking about having sex with this woman's son. It's weird in general. It's particularly weird in the context of this movie. Yes. Why is that a conversation that happens? Well, there's also a weird sex scene with the blowtorch where they're arguing about who takes out the trash. Then she threatens him with a blowtorch. And then they start just fucking in the garage. He says...

I've never made love to an angry welder before. And then they just make love. By the way, who has? It's a fantasy for a lot of people. I have been, I mean, my entire online. That's on your bucket list. That's like my entire online dating profile is just looking for an angry welder. You'd be surprised. I get a lot of emails from very happy welders, and I'm like, no, not interested. By the way, though, you need the girl from Flashdance. Yeah.

That's who you need. What is up with the mom in the sculpture? Because they go, oh yeah, this is so-and-so's sculpture. And the mom looks at it and stares at it like... It looks like a shark. It looks like a shark. There's actually a shot of her in the shark's mouth. I thought that was like... One of the most artistic shots of that movie. What it is, is it's cinema at work.

I couldn't pull the clip for it because it was too convoluted and you really need to see it. But at the end of the movie, the daughter-in-law is getting a, like, her art is going to be displayed on the beach. And there's just like a guy like the mayor. A dream for any artist. Oh, of course. A dream for any artist. To get your art. She's arrived. She's really arrived.

Oh, my work? Well, you can see it on the beach. I remember seeing pictures in art form of Warhol and Basquiat's very famous show. Oh, yes. Their beach show. So we understand, though, that the grandmother has not had sex with anyone since then.

Since Roy. Since Rich Schneider died. That's a long time. Well, we don't know, though. I mean, Dress 2 came out in 79. So I would say, yeah, she was about. It's been about 10 years. Yeah, about 10 years. About 10 years. 10 years, give or take. Hey, I've done that. No big deal. Because that's the thing is she and her daughter-in-law are having a sex talk because Michael Caine kissed her.

She's like, he kissed me. I didn't know what to do. Well, you had a couple of kids, so you pretty much know what to do. You know, once you start kissing, then it's time to make a trip to the bone zone. You got to open up the bone zone. Laura, but the mom also says, the mom doesn't know what to do in a lot of situations. She goes, let

Let's put our feet up and shoot the breeze or whatever beer drinkers do. That was one of her lines. Because I think of Cheers. All the episodes where Norm and Cliff just have their feet up and they're just shooting the breeze. Whatever beer drinkers do. Beer drinkers. That is like you would argue the most common thing. I don't know what you beer drinkers do. Let's have fun and chat.

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I have a very real question to ask, okay? Because the mom tells Michael, the only surviving son, okay? Yes. Her husband has died due to shark-related fear. Yes. Her son, mere days ago, was eaten by a great white shark, right? She tells the son, Michael, the surviving son...

It's coming after us. This shark is coming after us, okay? Mom, there's never been a great white in the Bahamas. Nope. Too warm. No great whites in the Bahamas come to the Bahamas. They go to the Bahamas. Michael, while out doing his oceanography, sees and is attacked by a great white shark. Yes. Tells no one.

Right. Doesn't tell anybody. Gotta keep it a secret. Knowing that she's got some shark-related issues. And knowing that she might be right at this point. He should be like, oh shit, it did follow us. I now have evidence. Yes, that shark is here. It attacked me. There's a death in the family of shark-related fear. It is in the DSM. It is real. And he doesn't say a thing. And basically Mario Van Peebles is like, we need to study this.

And he's like, cool, man, as long as we can keep tagging the conch shells that I'm doing. Oh, by the way, is that the scene where they're having this big emotional discussion and the director's like, hey, why don't you just drum on the deck like...

Yeah. Like this the entire time, just so we can make the exposition even harder for us to understand. He literally keeps one of the guys in the boat drumming for no reason, just drumming hard on the deck. It would have been less distracting if they had one of those guys that plays a bucket in the subway, like at the beginning of Saturday Night Live in the 90s. Oh, no, no, no. Like literally buckets. Literally a bucket. One of those bucket drummers where you bang really loud on drumsticks with a bucket. I'll ask again. Why were those guys there? I don't know.

I don't know. They didn't seem to have that much. No, no, they were there to put the bloody meat in the water. Oh, that's true. They did do that. They were the chum throwers. They did do that. By the way, I did like the- The chum throwers, I saw them with the Mighty Mighty Boss tones. They were fantastic. Oh, so good. Really good. And Dropkick Murphys? Yeah. Such a good bill. They have a really good dancer. Such a good bill. So the other thing about this movie, too, is that every human in this movie is like that gum or like those like fruit things, like gushers. Because whenever they do get bitten into, it's like-

Like blood does explode all over the place. I got a good deal on squibs. We're solid on squibs this entire production. They spend all their money on squibs. And it's just, I mean, like that's the thing. Anything that happens to anyone, like the woman who gets eaten off of the banana boat, there is...

This is amazing. She gets pulled off of the back of the banana boat into the water, right? There is an absurd amount of blood. And then they have a shot of the banana boat getting away. And everybody that's still on it, Thea, another little girl, and another adult, are covered in blood. Covered. They're like Carrie at the end of the prom. It is insane. That is to say, like, we are just human bags of blood, like birds.

Water balloons of blood. Ready to just explode. Yeah. The one thing, if you could say this director added anything to the art of cinema is... Which you can't. Ah, easy.

is the art of the silent scream. There are so many, like, no sound, just slow motion, silent, like, I can't do it for you because you wouldn't be able to see or hear it. It's not an inherently visual medium. Yes, but it's a slow motion, silent scream that is amazing. And they really are lengthening out those scenes. The director of this movie, did the director of this movie do the taking of the Pelham 123? No. I'm going to think his name is Joseph Sargent. I think he...

I don't know why I have that in my head. Because that's a great move. Yeah, it's one of the best. No, no. Taking of the Pelham 1, 2, 3 is... You're talking about the remake, right? No, no, no. No, the remake. Because that's great. The original's whatever. But the remake... You know what? You might... Yes, he did. He did direct. No. So here's what's fascinating.

Because that's also Robert Shaw. Robert Shaw also in The Taking of the Palm 1, 2, 3. If you've never seen The Taking of the Palm 1, 2, 3, I don't want to spoil it. I would just say it does have perhaps the greatest ending of any movie ever. It's just got this great moment at the end, and this movie has the worst ending of any movie ever. And it's reshot. It was reshot to make it better.

Oh, my God. That is mind-boggling. And that is a slow, patient, quiet movie. That is an amazing movie. Yeah, great movie. It's great. This movie, on the other hand, was nominated for worst actor, being the shark. How many Razzies? Actor, actress, screenplay, director, special effects, and picture. Those are all nominations. The shark won best, worst actor. Did the shark show up to collect his Razzie? No.

I think it's fun when they do the Razzie Awards and people have a sense of humor about it and they go, I know. Sandra Bullock. When Sandy did that, I call her Sandy. Yeah, of course. When Sandy did that and she's like, hey. She has asked you not to. You know what though? We're fine. It's fine.

It is not fine. I want to reveal two things here. We have the number one Jaws fan, self-proclaimed, Jonathan Koval, emailed me this week with some facts that he thought might be interesting, and I want to tell them to you. Okay. The novelization of Jaws 4 suggests the shark may be acting under the influence of a vengeful voodoo priest named

who had a feud with the Brody family. And the shark's apparent revenge has magical implications. Therefore, the witch doctor is the revenge and the shark is his tool. This also explains the strange psychic connection Ellen and the shark have. And the Michael Brody line, come on, sharks don't commit murder. Tell me you don't believe in that voodoo.

No one can confirm if this subplot was ever filmed or not. Would have loved to have seen that on the screen. Just to giggle my balls off at it. I would have loved the element that the brother maybe pissed off a voodoo priest. That would have worked. You know what else I love? You know what else I would kind of love? Is that at some point somebody was like, oh, well, you know, we obviously have this whole voodoo storyline. And somebody was like...

You know what? That's not believable in this book. Let's just make them just go at it. That might be just too much. So let's just go with what we're going to go with, which is nothing makes sense. Here is another. You know what? Put a voiceover on it. We'll fix it with a voiceover. But you know what? That voiceover is bad. Let's take it out. In the early drafts of the novelization, Hoagie is the island's drug runner.

Hence the mystery surrounding his occupation. Why the hell can he afford another plane at the end? And Michael's line, what do you do when you're not flying people? To which Hoagie replies, I deliver laundry. Yeah.

Oh, that's true, too, because Michael also asks Jack, Mario Van Peebles' character, when they find, this is crazy, they find the shark, right? This is presumably the shark that ate Michael's brother. It is a shark that has already attacked Michael and Jack on the boat. They find it and are following it. They're tracking the shark, right? They're literally following a murderous shark. And Michael is instead being like, hey, Jack, what do you know about Hoagie?

How does he make his money? He's after my mom. I don't know. I mean, a lot of people are running drugs down here. Like, they're having a conversation about hoagie, and there is, like, that's the shark that killed your brother, bro. Yep.

I mean, I don't know. Maybe this film could have benefited from a cocaine-based subplot and a good Glenn Fry song. Both those things work really well for this movie. Voodoos and cocaine. Did anyone understand what happened, what the action was when the plane flew down to get the shark away from... Oh, you mean when Michael Caine landed a non-seaplane on the sea? Yeah.

And it didn't break up. It didn't break up at all. He's like Sully Sullenberger over here. He did just fine. Previous to landing the plane on the ocean, they're flying around and Michael goes, can't this thing go any faster?

And I'm like, it's a fucking plane, bro. You're going pretty fast. Unless you can jump into an F-16, you're going to be going pretty at a pretty good rate.

But did the plane clip the shark? Nope. No. What happened? They're just trying to get close to the mom. Yeah. I mean, you thought they were trying to scare away the shark. They were just trying to land. So that they could get to the boat to save the mom. I see. Okay. And basically, yeah. Gosh. Obviously, we did not like this movie. But there are some people that have another opinion. It is time for our second opinion. These are reviews cold from Amazon. I only have two. One is pretty amazing. But this one's written by Jeremy Fluck.

And he says, this is one of my favorite movies ever. Even more than the original Jaws. Classic Fluck. Classic Fluck, by the way. Classic. To many people who have really no idea the true meaning of movies, which is to just entertain and give us an escape from reality, they criticize movies like this for not being perfectly made.

well, haven't people noticed society isn't really perfect and a little cheesy too? So true. My praise for the makers of this movie, an underrated touching movie. Wow. You know what? Based on that, you should stop doing this podcast. I know, that's it. What the fluck? Ha ha ha ha.

Here is my favorite review of all time, though. This is from Kenneth Rapp. So bear with me for a second because it's a little lengthy. Jaws the Revenge is a complex story of a great white struggling with its sexuality, being oppressed in his hometown. Wait a second. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Whoa, whoa, whoa. I feel like this review is less about Jaws the Revenge and more about this guy. I'm going to need you. Wait, no, I'm here.

I'm hearing him. I'm hearing him. I'm going to need you to start this over. Jaws the Revenge is a complex story of a great white struggling with his sexuality. Being oppressed in his hometown of Amity, the shark decides to go on vacation to the Bahamas. To me, I always thought he should have gone to Fire Island, but what do I know? There he meets an attractive dark man played by Mario Van Bibles and falls in love. But to his dismay, Mrs. Brody shows up and decides that his romance is forbidden and she must put a stop to it.

I don't want to ruin the ending, but this poor shark does not get to realize his dream. This is a bit. Yeah, it is a bit. It's a bit. Of being on Project Runway. But it was a great review of what it could have been. I'd love to read the other Amazon reviews that this person has written.

So Kenneth Rapp definitely has a different take on it and I appreciate that. Good job, Kenny Rapp. Anything that we did not cover? Anything that is worth mentioning? Will there be a Jaws 5? We'll see. Well, each one made less and less money. That's the interesting thing about the history of Jaws. The first one, obviously, one of the

Huge hit. It changed how movies are made and released. It was like the first blockbuster. The first blockbuster, yes. And then Jaws 2 made less money, and Jaws 3 made less money, and this made less money. You would figure when they got to Jaws 3, they would have seen the diminishing returns. No, they were trying to get one more, one more out of there, just try it. And that was it. Then they stopped, and they stopped. Oh, man.

I would highly recommend that you do watch this movie. It's only 88 minutes. It's perfectly enjoyable, and it's insane. Just like one of our other favorite movies called 88 Minutes. Oh, yes. Classic. Would you guys recommend it? Yes, absolutely. Oh, it's terrific. All right. Well, I feel like we have covered everything that is for Jaws. You can leave us comments, questions.

Rate, review us on iTunes. Leave us comments on our Facebook page. Just a reminder, watch NTSF SDSUV every Thursday night after Children's Hospital at 1215. Anything else? Anything else people need to plug, talk about? I want to give a shout out to the gang at Aquarius Records in San Francisco. Oh, yeah? Just cause. All right.

I like that. Cause I know they, cause I know they listen. I will also give a shout out to the gang at Aquarius records in San Francisco. I've never been, but, uh, I trust you and, uh, I bet it's great. I like it. I think we should. Yeah. If you guys want to give us, we'll give shout outs now. I'm just giving, I'm just giving, I like shout outs. I'm just giving a shout out to Andy, Andy at Aquarius, just because I know he's listening. Um, just for watch it. Uh,

Thanks so much, everybody. One thing. Do we feel that this time it was personal? Oh, it definitely was personal. Yeah, it was personal. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think it was. And a big thanks to everybody here at Earwolf, our engineer, Brett, and also our amazing staff. Buy our T-shirts, How Did This Get Made. They're Biling inspired. They're awesome. I really do like them. Thanks. We'll see you next time. Bye-bye. Every day, our world gets a little more connected.

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